Live From the Table - Journalist Robert Wright (audio fixed)
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- Опубліковано 20 січ 2024
- Fascinating and thoughtful journalist Rober Wright discusses his view of the Israeli conflict, the dangers of the "retributive impulse," realism in foreign policy and more...
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Norm is on a painful journey of exiting the Vampire castle.
He is starting to realize his evil roots, and wants the distance himself.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the syna.go.gue of Sa.tan, which say they are Je.ws, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Yes, you're right.
@@comedycellarclipsYou've read the Fisher essay?
Houthi and the blowfish.
Noam seems one of the least castled people you could point to.
I am an outsider but I really appreciate Noam for having everyone on, without demonizing them. There are too many hardline Israel supporters (and vice versa) who think every person who see things different as evil or antisemitic. I know you get a lot of shit for having your opinions, but it helps me too see things from different sides. So thanks.
Great discussion. I enjoy this series of interviews with noam (norm?)
Bob Wright is my guru.
Noam's face is just bugging out constantly lol
I just wanna say, I'm on the opposite side of Noam for most of these issues, but I genuinely appreciate him bringing on so many voices from across the spectrum. I'm not a comedy fan, so it's truly strange how "Comedy Cellar" has become a go-to for me for some of the best discussions on this issue.
I appreciate that. To be honest, the ugliness of the comments I get has made me want to throw in the towel.
@@comedycellarclips don't let them get to you; most of the negative comments are from clueless ignorant people who're making things worse. I'm a leftist who's become completely disillusioned by the left's response to this. I've just found these interviews and they're some of the best I've encountered in trying to understand this conflict and the best way forward. I admire your own determination to actually get at the truth and unflinchingly examine your own assumptions and biases on the way.
Is Wright actually sitting in front of his library while Noam has a tacked on background? 😂
YES! Although I do have another room with books like that, lol.
@@comedycellarclipshaha
The “comedy” cellar lmao
i really wish Noam would bring on ILLAN PAPPE
Noam lacks the self-confidence to do such a thing
@@mmm-mq3zr i really believe Norm is on an expedition to see /get Best arguments and who better than someone like ILLAN PAPPE; norm is always goin about how he has read the peace process and for that alone we should believe him in context of his finding and how ISRAEL did everything possible, but he’s never really had a debate/ convo with someone who is a master at that topic-
Lets have a little faith in the guy. . .
@@najmagulled6540he had Finklestein and Rashid on. Ken Roth.... none of those people were exactly echoing Noam's position.
You mean my self-confidence ends at Norman Finkelstein? (Who by the way chickened out of our last scheduled show).
It is fascinating to see in real time a man learning about how evil is culture and people are.
Welcome to the human class, Noam.
Have Miko Peled on
good to see you're willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt because he really deserves it.
Battle of the libraries
except the other guy's read that stuff
The other guy definetly reads that stuff. Cause the biased Zionist uses a fake background.
The human shield argument. Dworman thinks he's on a winner when he repeats his speculation that Hamas would feel thwarted, perhaps distraught, if Palestinians stopped being slaughtered. Dworman thinks Hamas should have built its military infrastructure under an out-of-the-way paddock, with a big sign reading: "Please bomb here"; whereas perhaps Hamas thought it was a better idea to build a comprehensive (that is, viable, useful) military infrastructure of resistance throughout the entirety of the tiny Gaza Strip and then trust that Israel would not commit war crimes. (Here Dworman will trot out statements by Hamas to the effect that it wants martyrs, whereas statements by the Israeli government -Isaac Herzog, for example- claiming that there is no distinction between Hamas militants and the civilian population are just hot-under-the-collar reactions to the October 7 incursion that, as such, should be disregarded.) Rothkopf said to Dworman: "If a bank robber has taken over a bank, you don't go in and kill all the customers in order to get the robber". Dworman didn't answer. A better version of this analogy is: "If a heavily armed gunman takes over a primary school, you don't drop a bomb on the school". (Israel has killed over 10,000 children in Gaza.) Dworman simply contends, implicitly, that, sure, you are justified in dropping a bomb on the primary school: the gunman is using the children as human shields; and sure, you can obliterate Gaza and kill tens of thousands of Gazans if your "legitimate aim" is "self defence " and to "destroy Hamas". Fortunately, a lot of specialists in international law disagree. If the primary school gunman hopes that a bomb will be dropped on the school so that all the children die, is that relevant to the discussion as to whether or not the bomb should be dropped? To repeat: Is it even relevant?
Noam, I have listened to every episode you have done on Israel and I have to say, Bob was out of his league here. You were the much better read, logical, and nuanced thinker in this conversation. He has absolutely no insight into Arab/Palestinian or Israeli psychology. He fails to contend with Arab aggression, violence, and mass delusion. Israelis have to contend with the Nakba? No, they do not. Palestinians have to face reality like every other displaced population, including Mizrahi Jews. Entertaining these fantasies - that Israel is going to disappear or that the great grandchildren of Palestinian refugees are going back to their villages - only perpetuates the conflict. In the end, Bob simply can’t see that the Palestinians’ actions have consequences they are going to have to accept.
Well I think you're thinking about this from the comfort of your own context. Israel is always facing a looming existential threat. The way I like to describe the psychology of Israel, it's like the classic kind of good guy gets in prison kind of thing where like if he shows weakness he will pay for it either directly to the people that he showed weakness to or the other people who observed it. If Israel isn't in that situation that's what they feel like they're in that situation. Hamas wanted to attack and have this attack spur on a pan Arab attack or even a pan Muslim attack. As it is Israel is worried about attacks from Iran and attacks from Hezbollah and you know so that's from the West Side hamas the north side and now we're talking about the east and north, Iran and Hezbollah. Then you got the houthis also! Can you guys also the threat of just any Jew being attacked anywhere in the world. This is what they want to happen and Israelis are scared that that it will happen that's existential. That can become existential.
There was a 1947 partition plan which is what you're talking about but there was a previous one mandate Palestine from the Euphrates river to the Mediterranean that became what is now Israel Palestine Jordan. The Jordanian land was supposed to be for the Arab Palestinians kind of in the twenties. I think this was rejected because the Palestinians that were in Felicia the Turkish ottoman district was part of Southern Syria not what became Jordan. Some people have described the land of Israel previously to a desolate wasteland and Jordan was conceivably more of a wasteland than ottoman coastal Palestine.
It's important to realize that the Ottomans considered Syria as the controlling area for that entire what we call the Levant and what they did was the divided up the land and gave it up to these hashemite princes without realizing coastal Palestinian Arabs wanted. All the other Arabs were willing to split the baby. I think that the Palestinian Arabs that were on the coast a classist problem because they were Turkish surfs. They were never taken seriously at all. That's not Israel's fault. The Jews vying for Homeland because they were refugees from everywhere else scraped up any advantage they could find. I think that you know the characterization of the Zionist as colonials completely misses the point the Jewish people tried for 2000 years to live in everybody else's land. That's enough of a try I'm not saying they didn't make any mistakes in how they created their own state but I think nobody acted well in any of the parties involved they all acted poorly. The Ottomans the British the Palestinian Arabs the Zionist Jews and the Zionist Christians...
I think that we we forget to realize the context in the world at the time there were many more partition plans and partitions. Israel was only one of many partition plans that came to fruition. I think expectations were set based on context and this is all lost in these debates because nobody really thinks about you know India Pakistan and Lebanon Syria Iran Iraq... This all had to do with the dissolution of the British Empire and how that was conducted. I am not blaming the British although they didn't know what they were doing.
Noam saying he wanted to ring Mearsheimer's neck is certainly one way of showing you're mentally stable enough to invite him on the show for a convo lol. For someone who constantly asks his guests to put themselves in the shoes of an Israeli decision maker, it seems as though Noam has spent little time trying to put himself in the shoes of others who don't have a bias towards Israel. This is why he gets emotional and upset by realists who don't fall into the trap of his Sam Harris hypotheticals.
I've tried to invite him for 2 years. He's not coming. We also tried to get him to join our live debate on Ukraine, and he wanted big $$$ (which I don't begrudge).
But he completely misstates the Hannibal Directive - don't you agree? And if so, am I not right for being angry? And is isn't it unbecoming for supposedly objective scholar?
No I think he correctly summarizes how the hannibal directive plays out in practice. It's as barbaric as it he makes it out to be@@comedycellarclips
you are a psycho dude lol@@comedycellarclips
@@comedycellarclips You are 100% right about Mersheimer’s shit-eating grin. The guy is a Jew hater, but worse, he’s intellectually dishonest. The primary assumption underlying his theory is deterrence. The only way he can account for Hamas is to relegate them to “non-state actor” status.
If he allows that Hamas is simply not deterred by its own civilian, military, and infrastructure losses, his entire worldview collapses. Hence, you see him downgrade the military of an elected government to a terrorist organization. The Jew hatred comes out when the “realist” indulges in all kinds of leftist rhetoric about genocide, open air prisons, and apartheid.
Also, I have the exact same visceral reaction to that smile. I think we’ve epigenetically developed a seventh sense that identifies Nazis. I am not kidding. I fucking loathe the guy.
@@sfgiants94 You have no idea what you’re talking about. The directive is to not permit terrorists to escape even if it means civilian casualties. There is evidence of ONE person dying because of it on 10/07 - a man traveling in a vehicle with three Hamas members.
Bob Wright is a continuous critic of Israel. Sure comes off as a soft anti-Semite to me.
In answer to Noam's question - "is it genocide?" The answer is yes. It is the Holocaust of the 21st Century.
Was the German bombing of London Genocide?
No, it is not. It is a war, and in war, civilians die.
Noam, you should listen to your mother.
It is sickening to think of the poor I N N O C E N T C H I L D R E N - shocks the conscience to the core.
What kind of human can do this to an I N N O C E N T C H I L D?
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the syna.go.gue of Sa.tan, which say they are Je.ws, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.