Pathfinder 2e Conditions You DON’T Want
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2023
- There are a TON of conditions in Pathfinder so I’m going to tell you what they do and why there are 42 of them. Learning Pathfinder 2e conditions can even help your DND 5e sessions run smoother! I was even surprised by how many homebrew TTRPG rules for Dungeons and Dragons 5e and new rules for OneDND were seemingly ripped straight from Pathfinder and the team over at Paizo.
So, here's a comprehensive guide on everything you need to know about conditions in Pathfinder 2e!
If you're looking to move from DND 5e to a more modern TTRPG system, then this is the video for you! I'll share everything I've learned about Pathfinder 2e spellcasting and how it compares to 5e. I hope you find this guide helpful!
ALL OF THE PATHFINDER RULES ARE FREE ONLINE! Here's a link to the beginners guide for Pathfinder 2e on Archives of Nethys:
2e.aonprd.com/PlayersGuide.aspx
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As a veteran D&D player I really appreciate the huge ammount of in-game discussions this system resolves being so straight-forward. It's a great job at cleaning the mess made by half-baked rules. By the same token if makes me fall even deeper in love with the narrative simplicity of the Cypher System.
agreed. this is why we made the jump from 5e and havent regretted it. there's less arguments around the tables. hell, even in my discussions online i find that there's less arguments and less witch-hunting for some obscure JC tweet.
High quality and very informative video! the deck with the condition cards helps a lot of newbies and veterans alike. Over time some conditions become easy to remember like flat-footed, for example.
Thanks so much! I'm glad you found this helpful!!
Wooow! This is just what I was looking for. As a new pf2 player I had the "confused" condition and damaged myself when trying to understand all these effects.
Happy to help! I know all these can feel a little overwhelming!
Blinded also makes everything Hidden or Undetected to you.
If only Hidden, a player can take a Sneak action (Stealth check and move half speed) in this situation and on a Success become Undetected.
Being Blinded sucks as it basically imposes a 50% miss chance on all your attacks, flat-foots you vs everything, and lets people totally vanish from your perception with a single action.
That's fair enough! I was mainly using the descriptions spelled out in the book so I appreciate the added context of a veteran here!
Awesome high quality video as always! Thank you!
Thank YOU for watching! I'm happy you enjoyed it!
Yey! New PF2e vid! Come over to the dark side! IMO we don't have to remember all 42 but here's the top 5 i suggest keeping in mind as they occur often or are the best to use;
1. prone-knocking prone is one of the best ways to force an enemy to waste an action. much better if you have a reaction attack like stand still, disrupt prey, attack of opportunity, etc to get a hit in (or even disrupt them from standing) as they stand up.
2. frightened-one of the best ways to penalize all the enemies numbers so it works well for both martials and casters. bonus here is it's one of the few conditions inflicted on spells on a save AND still deal dmg (phantasmal killer which is a good spell in this game). it's also quite accessible especially with demoralize coming from the intimidate skill.
3. sickened-this is the clingier version of frightened. it's harder to remove and has the bonus of not allowing the sickened target to ingest anything such as potions and elixirs.
4. grabbed-grapple is one of the best maneuvers to do in combat so this will occur often. its another great way to force your enemy to waste actions. this is something tanks will use a lot as there's no sentinel or "taunt" in pf2e unlike 5e.
5. flat-footed-rogues need this for their sneak attack and is all around useful for martials or casters who like to crit-fish. it's one of the easiest to get to happen like via flanking.
honorable mention: thought i'd mention the best positive condition here as well in quickened which can be an extra strike, stride, jump, composition cantrip, etc. It's not as good as 5E's haste but just like in 5E action economy is king in pf2e. contingency+haste is one of the best combos in the game.
oh and missed opportunity at the end to yell: "STUPEFIED! Avada...
Hahaha Yeaaaahhh this one has been a long time coming but isn't performing so well. I'll probably take some time today to rework the pitch with the thumbnail and title. Now the real question is what to cover next--since the revised edition is apparently coming soon.
@@ConstructedChaos sad to hear that. Maybe check with the community which pf2e vids are they interested in the most? my guess is anyone remotely interested in checking out pf2e will look up class vids (a monk is broken vid may generate interest as unlike in 5e monks are actually good in pf2e), comparisons with 5e and build vids. Maybe a GM from 5e guide may be interesting too though i worry about that doing well or not as the # of GMs are lesser than players.
End of the day, i dont think the pf2e remaster should affect your choices yet. Just more of what do you think new players may find interesting about pf2e with a 5e perspective (as this is what you bring compared to those who make purely pf2e content).
More pathfinder videos 🤩👏
🫡 As soon as I finish my 5e guides (before they come obsolete lol) I hope to be jumping back to some pathfinder!
Hey Chaos. As mentioned in the other vid, I'll start sharing some optimized theorycrafted pf2e builds. Some won't be playtested yet as i'm in the middle of our campaign where i'm playing a ranger-sorc gish and i'll only get to playtest when we get to sneak in one-shots. so for the 1st one to share to you, i remembered you liked your 5e thorns/revenge abjurer so i thought i'd do a similar concept for pf2e. As usual level 10 theorycraft, FA and CRB-only.
there's no AOA here and the closest i could find so i can get the build off the ground early is vibrant thorns (a nature domain focus spell). another issue in pf2e for these types of revenge builds is it works best when you can ensure the enemy attacks you. PF2E has less tanking tools in this regard. no sentinel. no taunts to encourage enemies to attack you. this build will be relying on grapple alot and using champion reactions to discourage enemies from attacking your allies. From an RP concept, this could be the classic knight/cavalier.
"Hit me baby one more time"
Paladin (champion)
Versatile human
Diety: Erastil (this is the only LG diety with nature as a domain)
divine ally: steed
master skills: athletics, intimidation
adopted ancestry: gnome (halfling is good too if you want halflng and guiding luck)
ancestry feats: first world magic, animal accomplice (familiar focus and spell battery), energized font, multitalented: fighter
class feats: diety's domain: nature, vengeful oath, basic sorc spellcasting, loyal warhorse, quick shield block, imposing destrier
FA feats: sorcerer dedication (needs to be primal so either elemental or fey), dangerous sorcery, basic bloodline spell, bloodline breadth, reactive shield
key skill feats: titan wrestler, battle cry
key spells: vibrant thorns, lay on hands, heal, disrupt undead, electric arc
role: tank/healer
tactics:
so the whole schtick here is to grapple an enemy, cast vibrant thorns and cast positive trait spells (disrupt undead, heal, lay on hands) to pump up the revenge dmg. this build performs excellently vs. undead. at latter levels we get access to another good revenge spell in fire shield and can get contingency for it via crossblooded evolution. this paladin will keep a free hand and just wield a shield. much like captain america. with cantrips/spells.
exploration activity: raise a shield
1st round:
free action: battle cry to frighten target for easier 1st grapple attempt
steed action (via imposing destrier): stride towards target
1st action: grapple the target. titan wrestler helps vs. larger targets
2nd action: vibrant thorns
3rd action: heal (if undead) or lay on hands (vengeful oath allows your lay on hands to harm enemies who hurt innocents or your allies)
now on the enemy's turn if they decide to harm a nearby ally you can use your reaction to retributive strike (using your shield or unarmed as the weapon) to punish them while conferring dmg resistance to the ally. if they decide to hit you, they take 5d6 dmg every time they hit you at level 10 (as long as you've cast a positive spell on your turn). and when they try to hit you, you can use reactive shield to raise a shield as your reaction then use quick shield block (1 free shield block reaction per round) to minimize the dmg against you. This build actually doesn't care about AC so you can skip the plate armor if you want as this build wants to get hit then just reduce the dmg. familiar focus and energized font ensure you have at least 2 focus points per battle for 3 combats in a day.
2nd round onwards:
1st action: maintain grapple
2nd-3rd action; disrupt undead (if undead) or lay on hands (vengeful oath allows your lay on hands to harm enemies who hurt innocents or your allies) or heal until you run low on slots. once you run low on slots you can just spam electric arc but this wont boost the dmg of vibrant thorns (down to 5 dmg every time you get hit at level 10). This part runs better if you have a GM generous with scrolls of heal (even if it's just a 1st level heal scroll)
steed action: strike
feel free to let me know what you think. perhaps you'll make your own version of this in the future too. i could see it being RP'd as some sort of undead hunter like Van Helsing.
Hahaha you had me at the name of this build. Way to get creative without AoA and taunting options!
@@ConstructedChaos haha. glad you liked the name. i wish pf2e had drag mechanics. that's what's missing here that i miss from 5e's grapple. it would be fun to grapple an enemy while on horseback and drag that enemy around. so did i guess right and you liked these revenge type builds?
oh and i guess GM question of the week:
since i couldnt find clear rules for dragging in pf2e (if you find it, kindly point me in the right direction), if a player at your pf2e table asks you if they can drag an enemy they've grappled how would you rule it? would you allow them? how would you determine distance dragged?
Hey Chaos. GM question of the week time! 1st the context:
one mechanic i find interesting in pf2e is how they use skilll checks for initiative, usually perception. However, aside from a couple of clear ones (stealth and survival), the rules arent clear on when to use other skills. Enter our bard.
Our party bard has bad wis and mediocre dex. So he planned to use a charisma skill for his initiative rolls and chose deception. He's backing up this choice by spamming ghost sound (cantrip) creating noise (shouts, bestial roars) 120 ft away from the party, much to my chargrin as i I want to be stealthy. I said "how can we sneak around when you're calling everyone's attention to our presence here?!" Then, he told me, we're still sneaking as the monsters are thinking we're in another area while we're walking towards another!
anyway, our GM allowed it and thinks it's not a big deal. our bard invested in a cantrip.
So I'm curious if this would be commonly allowed by other GMs. would you allow it as well? or would you go with the default perception check? or another skill?
I like this question a lot since it is more about preference than it is about rules and how to interpret them haha. Honestly, I've never been a huge fan of spamming a cantrip outside of combat to be as ready as possible because it always feels clunky in terms of flavor and RP. I don't think normal people would do that unless they were under extreme duress. That said, in spite of my disdain for the strategy, I'd still allow it in most situations but I wouldn't allow it retroactively. I'd want the bard to explicitly be focusing on casting the cantrip and unable to do it in certain situations that might require more attention than sneaking around.
@@ConstructedChaos well in pf2e "spamming" a cantrip is common as it's an exploration activity. Which i'm glad about because it removes all the vagueness and ruling about if from the GM.
On ghost sound in particular, it's not really "spamming." it's a sustained cantrip that can be sustained for 10 minutes. once that's up, since it's a cantrip, you just cast it again then. but in the time in between, the player isn't really casting the spell over and over again. they are sustaining the spell, then via that sustaining producing the spell's effects. it' just like concentrating on the effects. no need to exhibit v/s until 10m later.
for other cantrips though, like shield, then yeah it's spam.
as far as our bard explicitly doing it, yup, he declared it as his exploration activity like i do with steatlh/survival (track) quite often.
Agreed though that it wouldn't apply to every situation like if we were in a social situation. imo in exploration mode of a town, dungeon, etc it should work. it's just iffy because it's not written in the rules of using "distracting spells" to allow you to roll deception for initiative.
@@TheRobversion1 Well then I'd be totally cool with it!
@@ConstructedChaos in regards to cantrip spam, imo the ideal system would be to allow a player to react/free action to any event (I've seen the dungeon dudes do this too) wit hany action that doesnt consume a resource/doesn't have a limited use. Like if combat starts, the barbarian declares ok i move towards the enemy. The caster says, ok i cast shield. the paladin says ok i raise my shield. The ranger says ok i hide. this way it doesn't become clunky RP/flavor wise. i'm happy with pf2e's improvement but imo this is the next step to make it better.
So I don't mind the fact that the bard is trying to use something he has to get a low advantage. As an exploration activity it just works as Avoid notice but uses Deception. One extra flourish it might do is determining the level of detection as for Create a Diversion instead of Sneak when you roll initiative.
I'm looking forward to improving my systems mastery of PF2 so I know how to simplify the conditions system. It feels way excessive, but I'll play more before I make up my mind.
You are spot on about how much 1D&D is stealing directly from PF2 tho. It's wild. It's also doomed to failure as the maths & structure behind 5e doesn't stand up.
agreed. imo its best to think of a cluster of conditions. There's categories of on Archives of Nethys. Personally, i'd categorize then do scaling for the severity of the condition (slowed to stunned for example) to simplify the condition list.
@@TheRobversion1 Exactly. I tried to organize the video with that in mind while also moving alphabetically. In the end, only a few conditions truly feel like they stand alone.
Love the video. Can you add time stamps for each condition? Thanks!
Sure thing! I'll try to knock that out this week!
This is just some opinion on the editing. I love the video, but cutting away from the info-boxes to art (while very stylish) somewhat diminishes the effect of having the rules on the screen while the condition is discussed. Maybe this is just a problem for ADD/ADHD people like myself but I strongly feel that the video would be better with that box remaining on screen for the full duration of every condition talked about. ^^
Gotta love having someone explain all these conditions as reading them only forces them into memory so much.
Thanks for the input! I did try to use less art in this video for that reason! Maybe I'll try even less in the next one!
@@ConstructedChaos Yeah man, or if you are using a text box like in this video it could maybe be shrunk, moved or otherwise just remain somehow. What's a bit jarring is how it just 'disappears', at one point within a second of text appearing in it.
Great video anyhow!
@@Vallinen92 Cracking the balance between good pacing so your videos get decent watch time and digestibility so your viewers are getting what they need is a really tricky thing to get right. I'm just out here learning every day and trying to do better and better!
Hey Chaos! GM question of the week time! Here's something that will hardly see play but i thought it would be an interesting discussion point.
So Familiars in pf2e cant make strikes. they can use other attack actions such as trip and grapple as long at isnt a strike. Normally, no one wants their familiars to attack because they are weak. There are a couple of spells however that can polymorph a familiar to something worth attacking with. These are all typically very high level. 1 such spell is primal herd (10th level primal spell which is the highest spell level in the game). This changes the familiar's stats, trait (animal-mammoth) and gives it a new action to perform (trample).
AFAIK nothing is stated about what happens to the familiar's restrictions on attacking if they are polymorphed into a new form. Would you allow the familiar mammoth to attack?
Personally, if i was GMing i would. I know this goes against the general RAI on familiars but we are also talking about a specific 10th level spell here. IMO those levels of spells are great examples of how we can use something specific to overrule something general if there are no clear rules as to what happens. This spell is the same level as wish anyway and tbh at that point i can just wish my familiar had that capability (GM fiat though).
bonus question: speaking of grappling, there's no rules AFAIK on grapple + drag in pf2e. There's shoves but no drag. If you had a player who wants to grapple + drag:
1. would you allow it? it seems like such a basic capability in ttrpgs.
2. if yes, how would you homebrew rules on this? if you happen to find rules on dragging, do point me in the right direction. I've come up with nothing in my research.
From what i've read, RAW-focused people simulate grapple + drag by shoving the enemy 1st (breaking the grapple) then spending the next action to grapple the target. This imo is very clunky and breaks immersion for me and it's weird when you want to pull someone along.
Hey again! I completely agree on the first point about familiars using the strike action after being polymorphed. At the end of the day, you’re spending a fairly large amount of resources and I don’t think it results in anything game breaking.
I also agree that the shove and regrapple idea feels clunky and not immersive at all. I think I’d want to work out a system that takes into account a creature’s size relative to your own size or possibly your strength to determine a movement penalty that gets applied to your regular movement if you want to drag a grappled creature. In other words, it would just work if they’re already grappled but there would be some variance in the distance you could move with them.
@@ConstructedChaos yeah i dont think it results in anything game-breaking. RAW, a player can just befriend/train an animal with the nature skill, bring them into combat, turn them into a mammoth then command them to attack. and by default casters have 1 level 10 slot a day for this.
As for "dragging' in pf2e, if i ever come up with a grapple + drag build in the future, i was thinking for proposing this to my GM:
action-1 (move action which provokes certain reaction attacks)
requirement: target is grappled, enemy is 1 size larger than you or smaller (can be circumvented with the titan wrestler feat and high proficiency in athletics)
make an athletics check vs. target's athletics DC or acrobatics DC (whichever is higher) then apply the results below;
success: you suffer a circumstance penalty to your speed equal to half your speed. you can then move along with the grappled target equal to your current speed. This circumstance penalty persists until the grapple is broken or you roll a critical success on a future attempt.
you can also choose to reposition the target to any square adjacent to you if you move 5 ft less than your current speed during this movement.
critical success: as success but you receive no circumstance penalty to speed.
failure: you can reposition the target to any square adjacent to you.
critical failure: you're unable to move the target and the grapple is broken.
what do you think? is it balanced enough? what tweaks would you make?
@@TheRobversion1 I love this and the implementation of all success levels. To make sure I understand correctly, the circumstance penalty would stick with you until the grapple is broken? So on your next turn you couldn’t do this again? Or, wait, you can only take one circumstance penalty at a time right?
@@ConstructedChaos Glad you liked it. How's the balancing though? I'm thinking specifically of the reposition mechanic as that's something i wanted in 5e and I thought it would be good to include here. Would you say the 5 ft move "cost" is fair for lets say moving a grabbed enemy from your left side to your right side? it's doable btw once per non-crit failure drag action.
to answer your questions:
1. yes the circumstance penalty remains until the grapple is broken. TBH, this could be a full speed circumstance penalty and it wouldn't matter because once you have grabbed an enemy in pf2e you can't move anyway. this drag action is an exception to that rule.
2. on the next turn, this could be done again (1 action to maintain a grab and assuming maintaining is a success, another 1 action to drag). if you get a success again, then the new circumstance penalty is ignored because circumstance penalties dont stack. only the highest is applied.
if you roll a critical success, this circumstance penalty is removed until you attempt a drag again. it stay removed if you roll a critical success. if not, it can be applied again (success), not be allowed to move (failure) or you'd have to start over again because the grapple is broken (critical failure).
@@TheRobversion1 I'm no expert on PF2 balance but I'd say it looks good at first glance!
42 is the meaning of life after all.
But what is the question? 😉
Question about being Unconscious: it states that it gives you a -4 to your AC and imposes the flat-footed status on a player (among other things), but since being flat-footed gives you a -2 circumstance effect to your AC, does being Unconscious really make you have a -6 to your AC? Or just the flat -4, and being flat-footed is more for flavor?
Your math is correct, yes! (-6 to AC total)
I really love Pathfinder 2E and most of the conditions. But my one really big gripe is that Slowed and Stunned don't need to be 2 different things. Stunned is already 2 different things based on if it is a number of actions or a duration. They should have really folded theses things together and simplified them. They probably should have cut down 2 or 3 other conditions as well but overall still way better the competitor.
Agree! I play pf2 for 4 years and still don't understand what's the real difference between slowed and stunned XD
agreed. or perhaps made them totally different.
Haha that's fair enough! I'm guessing they really just liked the verbiage of quickened and slowed and didn't want to sacrifice that. Seems like they should, though!
@@szegediadam8793 the main obvious distinction is that you can take reactions while slowed, but not while you're stunned. Outside that there's the slightly more involved thing in that you can be slowed 1/2/3 for a duration, for example you can be Slowed 2 for 1 minute meaning that every turn you lose 2 actions. On the other hand, Stunned 2 just means that your next two actions go away then the condition is gone, whilst Stunned for 1 minute means you have 0 actions for 1 minute.
I you could replace every occurrence of Stunned with "Slowed X and cannot take reactions for one round" / "Slowed 3 and cannot take reactions for [Duration]", but even then it messes with when they regain the ability to take reactions, plus things like stunned 4 would have to be "Slowed 3 and cannot take reactions for 1 round, then slowed 1 and cannot take reactions for 1 round"
Yeah. It's not really that there's too many conditions so much as there's too many conditions that you'd have to look up whenever they come up in Gameplay. If all of them were intuitive, I'd say have as many conditions as you want. Many of them, unfortunately, remind me of D&D5E's infamous Exhausted condition, which everyone has to look up. I could get behind the pattern of the Clumsy condition for pretty much all conditions.
I could get behind that for most things as well! Some conditions are worth the extra complexity, I feel. But I really love the value system they implement and wish it was applied more liberally to simplify things a little more.
Question - does Clumsy condition apply to attacks ?
If the attack roll is dexterity based, yes!
@@ConstructedChaos Getting a better grasp of PF2e thanks to your great videos.
@@dylanhyatt5705 Happy to help!! :)
This is good stuff and I don't want to be nitpicky, but the transition card says "facinated". >.>
Hahaha I was bound to misspell something somewhere!
positive comment
positive response
I love PF2 but they really didn't need 5 levels of consealment.
Don't think so? I can appreciate the difference between undetected and unseen as they do help to paint a more vivid picture. But I suppose that just making undetected = hidden could have simplified things a little.
I really like the different levels of consealment because it makes it very clear what can be and can't be done. Having only one stage would be either overpowered (if it's only effect was like undetected or unnoticed) or underpowered (if it's pmöy effect was like concealed) or straight up fucking useless if it worked like invisibility does in 5e lmao.
Bro these transitions 😂
Lol what about them?
@@ConstructedChaos I love 'em!
@@StabYourBrain Oh haha good! :D
...yeah, that's a lot. Can't say I'm interested tbh
That's totally fair! Systems like this aren't for everyone and I do feel like some of the conditions could stand to be simplified a bit. What I really like is the "value" system here. It makes me wonder why it wasn't used more often.
too much going on lol, I'm gonna stick with D&D.
No problem there! I'm still playing mostly DND 5e for now and making videos for that system so I get where you're coming from!