Vintage railroad film - Denver and Rio Grande Western - Trouble at Troublesome - 1956
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- The vintage railroad film “Trouble at Troublesome” is a documentary film by the D&RGW following a 1956 accident on its Moffat Tunnel Route. After two freight trains collided at Troublesome Siding, the railroad staged a reenactment of events leading up to the mishap.
Wow, imagine screwing up so bad you have an entire film made about the incident.
It happens in rail, auto and aircraft and the goal is to learn from those mistakes to prevent them in the future.
Fame and infamy go hand in hand 😂
Happens all the time and but there by the grace of God go any of us. I cannot count the number of close shaves I've had!!!
I grew up in Kremmling, a very small town and never knew about this accident until I came across this video. Funny how no one including my parents never mentioned it. I know exactly where it happened. I recognize all of the surrounding country, brings back good memories.
The moral of the story is this: Driving a Locomotive is like Driving a Car. You must ALWAYS be alert and aware of your surroundings and what you’re doing.
15:26 guy on that bulldozer has iron balls
Ronnie Coleman would say "...NOT a lightweight"
Saw many of these Rio Grande safety films while working as a machinist apprentice at Burnham Shop in Denver. Even though train operation films were not in our direct area of responsibility, it was the idea of safety is everyone’s responsibility. Nice to see them again.
Interesting! The first time I saw this film was in one of the monthly safety committee meetings in the balcony conference room at Burnham around 1981. I was a machinist working in the balcony machine shop and was the balcony safety man working for Boots Agee at the time. Who knows, we may have been watching it at the same time.
I work the rails now, and the costs of recovery mentioned are just staggering to me. Those numbers don't even come close to what that cleanup would cost today. That was a nice economy we used to have.
“A million dollars” for the whole train! A laughable sum with today’s prices with a new AC traction locomotive costing $2-3 million each!
Ya well, those appear to be the old GM car body style. They were cheaper, I guess.
@@alanmcentee9457 It was also before 68 years worth of inflation.
"...trouble ahead..trouble behind, and you know that notion just crossed my mind..."
-- "Casey Jones" , Grateful Dead 1970.
"......Driving that train, high on Propane....."
We find almost all the details of the accident site, the small level crossing, the bridge and burfications and even the bridge or the last shot of the film!
I enjoyed the video, thanks for bringing it to us. There was certainly error on the crew's part, but hard to ignore the bizarrely close timing of the two trains at the Troublesome siding. Ten extra minutes on a more distant siding would have saved weeks of delays and expensive damage claims paid out to consignees. Thanks again for posting this video 😁
Good point. After taking several accident investigation courses, it was drilled into our heads that there is no such thing as an accident. There are deeper causes than appear on the surface. Any one may be claimed as the cause but the other causes were as much the reason.
Such as, the claim the crew just had 12 hours off and were thus well rested. Uummm, no. How much time was involved in clocking out of their past shift, how long of a drive home, how much family time and eating did they take, and how long did they spend getting up and having breakfast before driving to the train depot and clocking in. That 12 hours is NOT all rest.
If the two trains were to meet, did either engineer know it? Other than the signals. if they were expected to meet, why not keep the through train at a slower speed so the second train would have time to get fully on the siding. Knowing there was an upcoming train passing would have alerted the engineer to the fact that the oncoming train might not be fully on the siding.
These tracks are straight. The signals should be visible for a couple of miles. I find it difficult to believe that someone familiar with that stretch would not know where the signals are and divert his attention for a solid two or three minutes. As it was very early morning, was the sun washing out the signals or blinding the engineer? Were the signals working and how bright were the lights? Did the signal lights have a night intensity that was still on? How many signals warned of the two trains meeting?
Wonderful insight! It always seems that blame gets assigned to the lowest guys on the totem pole or waved off as an act of god, but there are always, ALWAYS contributing factors to consider. Sure wish such consideration was taken in roadway wrecks lol
In the 1980s, there was an accident just miles east of this one. It was an east bound freight on a sharp curve at the west side of Byers Canyon. The tracks are elevated on the north side of the Colorado River. US40 is on the south side and in a deep cut. There is a bluff, with a side road on the south side of US40. A perfect viewing area. I remember that one of the locomotive was perpendicular to the tracks with it’s nose almost in the river. Of course, the local fire departments were attempting to prevent diesel from flowing into the river. All locomotives and at least 10 cars were off the tracks. One of the derailed boxcars contained spices. The smell reminded me of walking into a spice store in the 1950s. News said the engineer did not reduce speed before entering curve.
I worked on that division as a trainman back in the 70s and 80s. The stretch from the end of Gore Canyon to Byers had a speed limit of 60mph but that first curve entering the canyon was only good for 20. On one trip, I was working the head end with an older engineer who tended to sit slumped down in his seat with his cap over his eyes but at the appropriate moment, he'd always raise his head and make a brake or throttle adjustment. As we approached Byers Canyon doing 60, I kept looking over at him, waiting for him to take action. Finally, at the last possible moment, he popped his head up, set the brakes and we hit the curve doing 20. When we arrived in Denver, I asked the conductor about this guy. "Oh yeah. He does that. You'll get used to it."
This very same thing happened here in canada Hinton Alberta.we will never know what really happened I believe the crew of the massive freight that came back off the siding and hit the passenger head on....killing all the crew except the brake man in the caboose..it was a most horrific wreck .please find that info and maybe do a documentary..of course they blamed the crew of the freight,and a few other things.history channel has a documentary on it.there also the runaway which the engineer refused to leave his loco and rode her out to the end saving many lives below that I believe was nova Scotia canada
It's out there(Crash Scene Investigations, I believe).
I heard the engineer was pre-diabetic and had heart problems. All of the crew were sleep deprived. I saw it on Air Disasters.
ua-cam.com/video/XIym5XnGlmY/v-deo.htmlsi=_gyU32LOtbrvksqh
How cruel of the company to make the men wreck the trains again just to make a film about it.
Excellent vintage film! 🚂
Saw this film when I was going thru locomotive engineer training in the early 70s. Great film.
I remember seeing this film in rule classes during CN rule classes
I bought this video decades ago. It might have been on VHS tape. 🤣
Good thing there were five-count ‘em, five-crew members on the train that blew through all the signals, having a social hou-…erm, I mean, keeping each other alert, awake, situationally aware, and perhaps even quizzing each other on the rule book. Why, just think of what could have happened if they had allowed one person crews back then like they’re proposing now … recipe for disaster!
Great video...post more ❤
I could tell that when that engineer (and fireman too) was looking away from the track view, something bad was about to happen. So careless. Time to retire, boys. Lucky you that the Rio Grande didn't try to make them pay for all the costs. And they still got their pensions and RRB annuities!
Extremely interesting film thanks for posting.👍
What happened to the crew? They get canned?
The CTC is similar to what my Dad ran until 1972. I still rember the clicking of the solenoids and contactors as trains ran on sections .
Now that is a real rail road Denver and Rio Grande Western
This is a blast from the past. The first time I saw it was in class when I became a fireman in Salt Lake City, Utah. At one point I was on a four man crew with more than 135 years of service.
"Watch the hills, the curves, the tunnels, never falter, never quail,
Keep your hand upon the throttle, and your eye upon the rail..."
ONE of the Reasons PTC Positive Train Control and Alerters ARE THINGS Today!!
Would be a fun place to camp out in
yea, wrong video. Sorry. Enjoyed yours though!
Pretty cool stuff! I've been past that spot numerous times when I lived in Grand Junction and commuted to the Front Range.
Awesome seeing old derailment footage!
The financial costs sound so cheap compared now even though adjusted for inflation, I am sure they were extremely high.
HOW DID THEY FILM THIS??? Camera was clearly aboard moving track equipment, it PASSED the fouling point of the turnout, and all but inches from colliding!!!!
I must know!
9:43
I think I've worked it out. Brilliant filmwork!
A drone
@@andrewheld2475 Filmed in reverse?
Zoom lens
They could have used a car or truck with a camera on board. The rubber tires would have allowed faster braking. And they could have filmed much slower and then just sped up the film.
Something similar happened in Western Australia at a location known as Hines Hill in the 90’s.
The dollar figures are hilarious.
ALL TEN of you guys are truly stupid. AN OUNCE of gold cost $35.00 when this film was made, what does it cost in "Today's Dollars"!? It's soon expected to hit $3,000, Now, IF only you could do the arithmetic....
Was trump in charge of this railroad?
Super. 💙 T.E.N.
Mopac - 2:19!
This video has a 1080 capable resolution but the original digital video was encoded at 140p. Yuck.
@ 11:20: Isn't that the fireman and not the brakeman? (They should have caught that in the rushes, or whatever they were called.)
Back in the 70s a fellow "hoboing" buddy of mine and I hopped many a freight train between Plainview (south of Boulder) and Grand Junction. We rode past this very spot but I don't remember a thing about it. I never heard of this accident til now. I don't even remember a siding called Troublesome. I wonder if it was still there then, or if it had been renamed. Them was the days.
It was worth it happening so we can watch this video. Thanks guys for being inattentive and causing this fantastic wreck, in turn causing your ex employer to make this fantastic film.
Thomas would toot..”Troublesome Trucks….”😂
The Usual Suspects, typical. Luckily no cell phones 📱 or texting involved, just Chin wagging. SMDH 😲🫣
Ha! Back in the 70s, I hired on as a trainman with the D&RGW out of Denver. In our training classes, along rules lectures, we watched this film and a really gory Chessie System safety film.
Calling out all signals was a common occurrence in the Salt Lake City area on the Rio Grande before it merged with the SP. I wonder if this accident was the reason behind the signal callouts?
I am sure they just covered up the spilled petroleum from the tank cars.
Considering the EPA is still a decade or so in the future, they probably just bulldozed it into the dirt during cleanup. Looking at photos of yards prior to OSHA and EPA regs look like the whole locomotive service area was a giant oil slick.
Back in the day they'd spray dirt roads in my area with used motor oil to keep the dust down. We shake our heads now, but in 70 years I bet they'll shake their heads at us and our practices of today.
Just acquired a 16mm print and surely will show this at NRHS groups in which I am involved.
😮😮😮😮 supposed to stop at the red signal fatal mistake!!!!!!!!
How does one miss a signal? Crew knows where signals are. What about preceeding signals?
It was very early in the morning. The sun could have washed out the brightness of the signal or the sun was in the engineer's eyes.
@@alanmcentee9457 If so, one mustop the train and contacthe Dispatcher. Then proceed at a speed slow enough to be able to stop in time if seeing another train or broken rail, etc.
Exactly, the narrator made a huge deal out of the amount of years the engineer & brakeman had on that particular line. With that many years online they either got complacent by the constant greens since pull out or they were just not paying attention. 🤷♂️
@@robertgift
There was nothing given to suggest the engineer or conductor knew they would be passing a train pulled over on a siding. Nor did these older trains have radios. There was no way the engineer could be contacted. Nor was there any reason for the engineer to slow or stop his train . That would have been a firing offense.
Yes, what you suggest is true today. It took several incidents like this to convince the rail roads to implement safer practices. Strong pressure from the ICC and later the NTSB as well as the RR unions have come a long way in making the rail roads safer..
@@alanmcentee9457 Thank you. Did not know thathey did not have radios.
If thengineerealized that he passed the signal but missed reading it, he should have slowed until reaching thext signal.
Would the signal preceeding the missed signal have been *Yellow* ?
20 000 here 17000 there, soon they were talking serious money !!!
12:20 “the immediate objective? Forget the crew! Get the line open ASAP!”
3 men on the headend, what was the 3rd man doing? He should have seen the signals and called out to the engineer.
Didn’t you pay attention? He was checking the engines and not in the cab.
Also part of the start up was the starting of the APU or as they called it the putt-putt. It gave them initial power to start the engines. Another interesting point is that the main gear, as in some other WW2 aircraft did not retract fully into the aircraft to allow landing in case gear did not deploy.
Hmmm, wrong video???
Can’t tell if you are making a joke or what.
Too many tabs open dude. I did similar awhile ago too. Had 8 of the same browser each with at least 7 tabs and got caught out. You must be using a desktop computer LOL.
F units weren't equipped with retractable gear until after the Korean war. E units got them in the mid-40s. All Geeps came standard with it. GE didn't even offer it as an option. Railroading is crazy like that.
@@Cobra-ky9bt Okay, you might be right about that , but a little known fact is that Baldwin was developing a constant speed prop about the same time as it released the Centipedes. Who knows what would have happened if those units were more successful. Baldwin just lost it’s way after the steam era.
There goes their JOB! 😮😮😮😮😮
I love how incredulous the narrator is at 9:18 when describing the crew's testimony that "they were talking about how lucky there were to get such a great train." I'm a litigator and it's painfully obvious when witnesses are feeding you some ridiculous, self-serving bullshit at a deposition or some other kind of hearing that requires sworn testimony. It's all you can do to avoid rolling your eyes. Good to see that the cynicism was present back then even.
9:45 - Southern Boxcar relation to Old Timer (20862) & Junior (24395)
No inflation back in 56.
Those amounts are laughable by today's ridiculous standards. With all the gouging going on, it would be in the 6 or 7 digit range.
On duty at 4am. Betcha everybody was asleep expect the engineer on the SPD.
What happened between san jon and Tucumcari on the rock island rail?
interesting, they misspelled "Employees"
"Employe" is a correct but archaic alternate spelling of "employee". Tellingly, the railroad trackworkers' union -- the Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employes (BMWE, now a branch of the Teamsters) -- still spells it that way.
Fascinating.
He's fired
I doubt very much a 20 years experienced engineer missed a signal!
If distracted, can happen to the best of them.
If staring directly into the sun, it’s possible
@@nicktynan1355
The track is straight. Those signals should be visible for two or three miles. So the question becomes why didn't the engineer see them. Was he blinded by the sun? Were the signals not bright enough to compete with the sun? It is inconceivable that an engineer would take their eyes off of an upcoming signal for a solid two or three minutes.
Why didn't either engineer know about the other train? The through train was traveling at full speed. If he was expecting to meet another train, he would have slowed in order to give a bigger time cushion.
@@alanmcentee9457 Sun can be a factor, though the target style signals of the day with hooded lights (better than the tri-lights nowadays) could mitigate that. On straight rail, could be possible to see multiple signals(depending on spacing), but the priority is the one you are approaching. At times dispatchers communicate meets in advance, but it is mainly signal indication. In this video, this particular crew was distracted(unnecessary conversation) and missed their immediate signal(this is why the implementation of "Sterile Cab", following the airlines example of "Sterile Cockpit", allowing for full concentration/focus in critical situations), thus being too late when they DID finally see the opposing train. It's the dispatcher's responsibility to set up the meets, it's the train crew's responsibility to observe/obey the signal indications that are set up for such. This particular crew didn't do that.
@@nicktynan1355
Who said they even saw the signal? At day break with the sun behind the signal and in the engineer's eyes, there would be no visible signal evident.
The script was written by and from the management's view. They blamed all the accident on the crew and none on the actual railroad. They quoted the crew as saying that they had talked. BUT they did not say if the crew could see the signals or if the signals were even working. They said nothing about the speed of the train. And they still should have alerted the crew that another train was expected to be run to a siding so this train could slow down. Instead the engineer thought he had a straight run without any events planned.
In any event like this there are multiple causes. One excuse that the Occupational Health and Safety Act did away with was allowing an employer to tell the worker to "be safe" or just warn him of a danger. Today employers must fix dangerous conditions.
Jinkies!!
Someone got fired and lost their retirement pension I bet...glad no one was badly hurt.
You don't "lose" your retirement.
Don’t count on it. You earn your retirement over the previous years of work. They can’t take it from you.
@@raylrodr well that's good... all those years of good work for sure
of course the wreck would happen in a place called Troublesome
Looks like Ward Cleaver on the CTC panel...
That opening theme music was already 20 years out of date when this film was made. It sounds like it was stolen from an old Flash Gordon serial episode to save money on this film's production costs.
Probably a good drink in that lunch box😅
The steam crane was powerful alright!
WOW, they ACTUALLY crashed a whole train on purpose? That's pretty awesome.
(Before Pearlman came and had destroyed all the standard gauge steam engines.)
Asleep or drunk at the wheel?
Another comment from someone whose family knew the engineer. He always heard that the engineer was such a habitual drunk they were surprised to learn that he had been sober for this.
It is the Railroad so, probably BOTH.
volume is too low, hard to hear
3:41 Fireman? On a diesel? A fine example of union ingenuity🙄
Not as archaic as it might sound. Those old diesels were less reliable than modern ones; they were also generally larger, meaning that problems couldn't be fixed from the cab. Having a fireman meant that they could troubleshoot a problem 100 feet away, and also regularly patrol and inspect the engine spaces. They kept the engine running while the engineer ran the train. They also were a second pair of eyes and ears for the engineer, to prevent exactly this sort of accident (and before you mention the head brakeman, not all trains of that era had them on a given day, and they weren't always on the lead engine when they were there).
The title was obsolete, but the job was very much still relevant.
Sure beats the alternative, whatever low-paid, overworked, insecure conservative nightmare you dream about.
فعلا فليم اتعلمت منة الكثير للتفهم وهام للغاية شكرا على العرض❤❤❤❤❤❤ 0:53
my great uncle was the engineer. i remember the wreck when i was a kid. my mom and dad were so surprised he was sober this one time. he was quite the drinker i remember them saying.