The Shortage Pushing Legal Systems to the Brink
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2022
- For months, Oregon has failed to meet its constitutional requirement of providing defendants with adequate representation. A lack of public defenders is leaving hundreds of people without attorneys for weeks or even months on end, including many people in custody.
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This is eerily similar to the 'teacher shortage' we are experiencing in the US. Expecting underpaid, overworked people to work harder for no increase of pay to solve problems that a system beyond there control created.
I dont know why people cant get it through their head, pay people more and they are hapier and work harder. Maybe it doesnt work with themselves or other people they know with similar high socio-economic status, but it does make a difference where half of your wages go to rent.
I would never let my kid go to school in the USA.
@@laurenwilliams777 that’s a bit harsh, the US has some of the best schools in the world, it’s just super inconsistent because it’s a huge country
@@rowannadon7668 it's super inconsistent because the wealth is spread so perversely
Our teachers basically just teach kids to be communist and hate our country. Public school system needs to be shut down. It’s gotten so bad. No respect for teachers anymore they’re terrible humans
This is seriously embarrassing to watch. Our legal system is a joke.
Thank a Democrat for that.
Hey brotha, I’m 20 years old grinding hard to get out the hood, I can’t be 30 with nothing to show for so i smoke weed on my youtube channel 😕
@@247tubefan Elaborate?
@@laneatkinson6441 Trump would not have instituted all the ridiculous mandates. It's true he put Dr. Fugazi in place. But he wouldn't have remained much longer. The cracks in their relationship were already showing towards the end. Trump never would have let things gone this far. He would have said 🍊-"I'm hiring millions and millions of public defenders. And they will be the best and most smartest public defenders in the world"
Best country in the world!
My take-away;
Prosecutors making twice as much..
The Government cares more about sending people away , then defending the presumption of innocence 🤬
prison complex economy
No just the government. The people. The voters. Unfortunately that’s who we are.
Its survival of the fittest but to be strong enough requires a certain level of awareness as to what reality is versus what reality is made to look like. People with less education are used as cattle. Kept alive to produce resources for wealthier people.
Two times? How about four times.
I worked at the Metropolitan Public Defender's office from 1994-2001. I left as the Sr. Attorney in the Major Crimes unit and made $44K/year. My "pension" for that period was, including my contributions totaled $30K, not a year, totaled.
My counterpart at the Multnomah County DA's office made over $160K/year, then, and now draws a pension of $139K/year. Granted my counterpart put in many more years of service, but don't you think the "draw" to becoming and staying a DA is much greater based on pay alone?
The system is broken because Oregon does not pay a just wage to attract and keep talented lawyers, but instead relies on wearing lawyers and defendants down.
The "Oregon state government"
5:47 What she is saying is the public defenders need to push their clients to accept plea deals just to get them off the docket. Which is the biggest violation of rights I have ever seen. But no one will hold the state accountable.
@@teraminton4082 Facts
Time To Dance🇱🇨🇹🇹🇧🇧🔥
ua-cam.com/video/MaI6MoDTwC0/v-deo.html
@@teraminton4082 sooo....who is she exactly
But she cried over the shortage......CRIED OF JOY I BET.
If everyone got a trial the court system would literally collapse under the weight. Plea deals are actually often the best choice for first offers though as you can get what's sometimes called a continuance without a finding where by pleading guilty you can agree to community service and or probation in exchange for the charges being dropped upon completion. If you go to trial you are risking a criminal record AND jail time after what often amounts to over a years worth of legal battles.
The system is not broken, it is working exactly as intended
Literally. But it's off the rails now
Exactly! And that is sad:(
Nah Definitely not intended otherwise the constitutional right to a public defender wouldn't exist at all.
Much easier to just lock people up then.
@de dr You do know they can lock you up for made up charges right? Lol
Ever heard of false imprisonment
@de dr you must not have been keeping track of the false charges police have been pinning for their ego and out of spite. Even now, body cam footages are still coming out where police have killed unarmed, compliant people and planting drugs. It's sickening
When you interviewed the chief judge you asked her “what was the one thing that could be done to solve this problem?” She responded that the public defender’s have work harder! Considering that she was a public defender herself her answer was disingenuous at best and showed a complete lack of concern for the rights of the accused to a speedy trial. Was she unaware of the statistics you quoted “ 26,5 hrs per public attorney per day” in order to catch up to the case load? It sounds to me that that judge is knowingly ignorant of the problem. The fact that public defenders make 1/3 to 1/2 as much as the prosecutors do is criminal. Add in the fact public defenders are generally less experienced tilts the justice system in the states favour. With judges l like Chief Justice who is knowingly miss-representing the facts no wonder citizens who get entangled in system feel disenfranchised.
I have for along time felt that the justice system was unfair to the accused. The state has virtually unlimited resources to prosecute a defendant. In order level the playing field the justice system should allocate the same amount of money for the defence as the state has budgeted for the prosecution.
Not just the cost of the prosecutor but all the costs associated such as DNA testing etc.
The system is corrupt at it’s core and has to be changed.
I don't think "lack of experience" is an issue. Public defenders are some of the greatest, most experienced trial attorneys out there. We're in Court pretty much everyday handling an absurd number of cases. No one knows the Judges, prosecutors, and even cops better than we do. I probably had more trials in my first few years as a public defender than many private attorneys had in their entire careers. It's the caseload that's killing us. Honestly, I don't even care about the pay at this point. As crazy as it sounds, I'd gladly give up a good $10k of my pay just to have a reasonable caseload. And I don't even practice in Oregon, mind you, so I can't imagine how terrible it is over there. But here is the truly sad truth: the system is so rigged that the defendant is still generally screwed regardless of who is representing them. Sure, their chances are better with better representation, but it's still an uphill battle. I mean, let's consider Bill Cosby for a second. Powerful, rich, famous. And yet the dude still spends 3 or so years in prison before his conviction gets overturned for very obvious due process violations. Imagine a defendant with no money, no power, no influence. That's the vast majority of defendants. And if even someone like Bill Cosby can get screwed by a broken system, can you imagine what's happening to the rest of the country everyday? So it goes much, much deeper than just mere representation, although that's a big part of the equation. The system is broken and no one wants to do anything about it because no one cares about the criminal defendant. That's the reality. The "innocent until proven guilty" maxim doesn't reflect the prevailing American attitude. Otherwise, we wouldn't stomach a system like this. Sorry, big rant. But I've been working this job for nearly 10 years and it's only been getting worse.
@@flavoredwallpaper Thanks for educating me! Your service to the public appreciated.
The state wants payed for housing the inmates so the don't want them defended
That’s the typical entitled republican response. “Work harder” “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” “character flaw”
judges are often corrupt people, liars, and commit their crimes like stealing things, harassing females, doing favors for friends, etc. it's amazing that cops and prosecutors are not held liable for lying and abusing innocent people, then in jail the guards can assault you and put you within arms reach of violent criminals in the cell. system obviously designed to easily put citizens in jail if the state wants to, and to provide latitude for the prosecutorial workers (cops, prosecutors, judges, guards) to not be policed at all.
Public defenders have been weakened and gutted for years. I think it was purposefully done. I also think it’s encouraged by Private prisons. One thing is for sure we are incredible in this country with creating problems then being slow to fix them.
@Josh Mulvaney I agree with your statement though I think intentionally and purposefully slow/inefficient are one in the same. But I do agree with you wholeheartedly.
@Josh Mulvaney We elect representatives whose stated goal is to undermine the functioning of government, then we act shocked that government doesn't work, and we say "see, government doesn't work. government is bad."
Thats the problem when people profit off other people's misery... no point in solving the root issue... funds will stop flowing in...
The legal system isn’t fair at all, unless you’re rich. You only get the representation that you can personally afford, which disproportionately affects 80% of the population. The prosecutor has endless amounts of state funds to get the best third party fact witnesses. That’s why poor people get railroaded.
Everyone knows it’s all about corporate greed. That’s not even debatable anymore. They admit it willingly. For those who are actually educated in the matters are flabbergasted to suggest anything different. It’s like denying evolution. 🤡
The guy said it right, What constitutional rights? Anyone that has been on the receiving end of the justice system knows there's no such thing.
If you can't provide a lawyer for non felony cases they need to be dismissed.
Or, you know, don't commit a crime.
@@beenerkillzz you must be a 10 year old because I don't know how an adult who pays bills and holds down a job can speak so naively.
@@beenerkillzz you must be a child, to have thoughts like this. My ex was choking me out pretty badly, I scratched him and got away. Called 911. The cops believed his sob story and arrested me. I weighed 88 pounds at 5’5”
According to you the crime I committed was, calling the police to protect my safety. And yes the case was dropped two minutes it got to court. The judge was appalled I was arrested and booked for three days.
@@beenerkillzz autist
@Alessandro Plomo yawn. Bro lmao. That’s such a lame over used “insult” please think for yourself and come up with something better hahahah
There's no such thing as a "Public Defender shortage"
There are industries and companies and Governments that refuse to pay people enough to work at that position.
The state should be sued for violating a prisoners rights. As it isn't the prisoners responsibility have access to free legal council it's the states.
Probably cheaper to reduce prosecutorial budget and put rules in place to balance the playing field. Even when you can afford an attorney you are at a disadvantage fighting the state which has a fairly unrestricted amount to prosecute you with and set ridiculous rules for juries in order to get convictions. There is also the issue with punishments being set ridiculously high in order to coerce people into pleas. There is the discretionary authority of the police and privileged immunity. Even if public defenders were paid a lot more and there were more of them it is pretty tough to fight the ridiculous advantage the state has rigged in it’s favor. It also starts with the absurd amount of legal proliferation we have in the country. All it is, is welfare for attorneys at the expense of society.
Missouri was sued for doing just this. It was ruled a discretion of the legislature.
Facts. There are plenty of people in law school rn that would love to do this job when they finish but it's not really economically feasible after paying an obscene amount for the required education.
@@stephen_nicholson_iii3549 i notice fbi/irs/cia/msm all give double standards to political families deeply involved with kill iraq/libya in particular
thats how politicians stay rich while print billions to ukraine/occupy syria
george bush 14y ago said add ukraine to nato foreshadow nuland f eu coup 2014 support =
1. ua-cam.com/video/nTQ3D1a-j20/v-deo.html
2001 pentagon memo kill occupy iraq to syria
ua-cam.com/video/_mrJRHwbVG8/v-deo.html
@@ME-rd4so i notice fbi/irs/cia/msm all give double standards to political families deeply involved with kill iraq/libya in particular
thats how politicians stay rich while print billions to ukraine/occupy syria
george bush 14y ago said add ukraine to nato foreshadow nuland f eu coup 2014 support =
1. ua-cam.com/video/nTQ3D1a-j20/v-deo.html
2001 pentagon memo kill occupy iraq to syria
ua-cam.com/video/_mrJRHwbVG8/v-deo.html
The judge literally said they need to resolve cases that have been pending a long time. Meaning get your clients to plead out faster. That's the opposite of their legal obligation to defend their clients. More proof that the justice system is a ruse and that if folks demand their constitutional rights, the system will collapse as it has already begun to do
what is boiling my blood: those people sit in jail so long waiting for a process, that they might as well take a plea deal, because even the maximum punishment for what they are charged with is sorter then what they already had to sit before the process even started.
Well, I was a Public defender. The thing is, resolving old cases also comes down to taking certain cases to trial as well. With homeless clients, this is hard as they often don’t have working phone numbers, hence the long wait to resolve
Most cases are resolved by pleading out.
@@sarowie And plead guilty to something they didn’t do and then never get hired or find housing because of their “criminal record”? I hear what you’re saying, but man, how can this be “justice”?
@@mcoutant8964 And how many are because the public defender does not have time to do a proper defense? It’s well-documented that plea deals are often shady af.
Fair and speedy trial. Months on end my eyeball. If you can’t get attorneys to join PD office, consider PAYING them.
Why would an attorney work for peanuts for poor people when they can have a real job helping people with mo ey....you go into business to make money not goto work for people whom don't pay their bills.
Public defenders have always been underfunded. I've always thought it was egregious that prosecutors officers are funded more than public defender offices. It makes for an egregiously unfair system right out the gate.
It's by design. If you have no money for a paid attorney, you're fucked. In my younger idiot days I had a violent felony for beating up a rapist (not an excuse for my actions but an explanation). I was facing 2-7 years with the public defender. Best they offered in preindictmennt proceedings was 1 year in jail and 3 years felony probation with a felony conviction. Hired a paid attorney. He got me 1 year conditional discharge.
@@neoxyte You did what most people wish they could do.
@@neoxyte don’t you live capitalism lol
Here in Los Angeles County, we have public defenders serving as deputy district attorneys, and as such you don't have to worry about being prosecuted for committing a crime. I thought a leftist whack job state like Oregon would be even more pro-criminal.
Hard to disagree with you on this
Long story short,
Money is the motivation, or lack there of.
No money, no constitutional protection.
I worked as an investigator in a PD's office for four years. We had 25 attorneys and each one of them was responsible for about 150 cases at a time. Triage was always the word of the day.
Not to mention the pay disparity. PDs, investigators, admin, you name it. Everybody was making about half as much as we would've been had we been doing prosecution instead.
However you feel about criminal defense, it's a constitutional right and a critical part of the justice system. The fact that it's so badly underfunded shouldn't be tolerated.
so, basically, the best way to defend someone is to not act as a public defender, so everyone's case get's thrown out? lol
@@joshcornell7013 he could not have represented all those people! In the US if you cannot legally prosecute someone you're supposed to let them go!!! Though I guess the war on terror has taught us a few things about that.
Public defend saved my ass when I was 18
- 26.60 hours per working day 😴
@@kafeei that's what dual monitors are for
I find it insane that public defenders have to do large amounts of case management, in a hospital a neurosurgeon doesn't do the prep before a surgery, the nurses do it, and the neurosurgeon does what he is trained to do. It seems only logical to have separate case managers that work alongside the defendants.
You mean you want them to pay two people to do the job one guy was doing?
Goodluck getting the government to do that LOL
It's the unfortunate part of being a civil servant. You're expected to just deal.
I agree, the research and gathering of evidence and witnesses. It's gotta be so stressful and depressing as a Public Defender.
@@johnsnow5955 well no that "payment" falls on taxpayers. every government expense is funded by every taxpaying us citizen.
Haha, pubic defenders arent brain surgeons... but yes that is a problem
Law STUDENTS!!?? They don’t feel embarrassed to say that as legislators?
Why get a law student when you can get a dozen high schoolers to represent someone instead? Surely 12 people working on a case is better than 1!
if i had no other choice, I would take a law student as representation
@@blucow6677 Think about what a failure of a system we have where we now how to compromise our rights from a "fair trial" to "if i had no other choice".
With law students if u lose u can claim that u were not represented correctly. That's probably why they don't use them.
5:17 100% lies the judges HAVE A DUTY TO DISMISS IF THE STATE CANT PROVIDE A LAWYER. What they are basically saying is we can violate your rights without due process or and sanctions on the state holding these people.
@de dr No I dont, I hate that bail reform has become just a revolving door and I am actually super right wing. I just hate the state far more as their abuses are covered by law. I can always defend myself against a criminal I can do NOTHING to fight off malicious prosecution or DA or Judicial malfeasance. The govt should have to work over time to put you in a cage not just force every poor person into a criminal record just because they are too poor to fightback and may not be able to sit in jail long enough to fight something off.
@de dr No I want a fair justice system who is held accountable for violating peoples rights and I want every guilty person prosecuted. I don't want a single innocent person even inconvenienced. Its totally unacceptable.
I wish we would update the legal system. I would be happy to serve as a remote attorney and I'm sure others would be too.
Being a public defender is probably the worst possible attorney job there is but if there was opportunity for more people to pick up a few cases every now for pay from that state on top of their main job/cases, I'm sure people would.
Unfortunately that's not as good as an in-person attorney, but it's a hell of a lot better than no attorney.
Also screw that lady who thinks public defenders should just work harder. No one goes $150,000+ in debt for a thankless, emotionally harmful job that pays fucking peanuts.
Better Call Saul
They should just contract out the public defender system in places where it makes sense.
@@gary9933 That sounds like a terrible idea to me. Talk about conflict of interest.
I thought they already did have a program where private attorneys could pick up a public defense case here or there. If there isn’t one there should be. It makes a lot of sense.
What a completely broken system. From start to end. The amount of shortages brought on by greed. The cost of education deters many from pursuing necessary careers....and we end up here. Obviously this is a very general outlook, there are many nuances to this....but in the end this is what we are faced with. So much lack in a country of much...
Biden says "your welcome Jack"🍦
@@247tubefan This has been going on long before Biden. Stop putting the blame on one man when many are to blame on both sides.
No you are 100% right I don’t think you realize actually how right you are it used to be that you did not need a college degree to become a lawyer all you needed to do was study hard and pass the bar exam and then intern under a lawyer or with a law firm but this loophole has been closed in almost every state and because of how expensive it is it has put it out of reach for many who would aspire to become a lawyer
@@hillarymullins7928 even crazier is that people have to get an undergraduate degree before even applying to law school. That makes sense for high-end lawyers in specialist fields - but no one cares about the undergraduate of a public defendant. Heck: Even high-end lawyers state on video that the undergraduate degree does not matter. (Expect when specializing)
@@247tubefan lol Calm down Trumpet
I wish there was a law that said every lawyer had to spend one month a year as a public defender. That would clean up the backlog really fast.
that would result in a ton of incompetent decisions. tax attorneys aren't capable of being criminal defense attorneys, nor are many other types of attorney. it's like saying every type of doctor should spend a month a year in the emergency room. people will have terrible outcomes because lawyers are not trained like this.
It a good idea, but the thing is where the money coming from for the lawyers. Unless you are saying same amount of lawyers per month.
Cool. Like slavery. 👍
@@perfectallycromulent it's not rocket brain surgery
@@ronaldosalazar1994 mandatory national service.
26 hours a day. That's a tough schedule. They should just pull themselves up by the bootstraps if they care about their clients.
Uh how can someone work 26 hours in a 24 hour day?
@@tylerb9877 The guy whose cover photo says "America is the superior" doesn't understand sarcasm in context with the video he is commenting on? What a surprise!
I don't understand why the public defenders don't just invent a time machine. That way they could clear all the cases instantly!
Shortage of public defenders have been an issue across the United States for many years. I have had friends locked away for months waiting. In that time they've lost everything all over having a bit of weed. Sad situations.
let me guess: they jail sentence he got was lower than what he already sat locked up? So, factually a guilty verdict set him free as a "punishment".
I mean: Free as in being labeled for live over an non-issue and thus never getting a proper job and thus being pushed into a more problematic situations, meaning higher chances of once again getting into such a situation.
@@sarowie crazy right
@@sarowie America is such a terrible country 🤡🤡
I highly doubt that you don't goto jail for getting a weed possession first offense.
meanwhile cops smoked the seized weed in their cruiser and nobody seems to care.
I live in Oregon and there was a news story just this morning about police being told not to bother with non-violent crimes, so people are not even being arrested at this point.
Biden says "that's the plan Jack"🍦
I live in the UK, and in my view, if you are just a local idiot, as seen locally since time began - then yep, the cop should be allowed to knock him out or incapacitate him and imprison him for the night. Without court or extra expense or full legal nonsense.A Sheriff perhaps, or Marshall could deal with this? We don't have that anymore here, there are no local Bobbies(cops on the beat) and if they are they don't know anyone locally. Big problems can be solved in a small way, si what I am trying to say.
@@247tubefan this is the county/state - the story isn't about federal defenders. Nothing to do with Biden.
@@RayRamirez1024 There are Democrats at the county/state level too. It's still their fault.
@@RayRamirez1024 Teaching people common sense isn't going to work. There just too gone now, at this point it's better just to laugh at them. As they shout there ignorant rhetoric into the void of nothingness.
It's like that drunk uncle or aunt we all have that comes around during the holidays. Just nod and go ok... 🤣
Keep in mind that the system works perfectly as it has been designed for. Its not broken. ...think about it.
what are you a legal historian? what do you know? stfu
Yeah don't break the law and you don't have to deal with courts....it's a damn good system.
@@JohnSmith-bx5fg nope, I didn't mean this.
@@infullbloom3246 I know what you mean & I totally agree! If a person is rich and guilty in this country they are better off than those who are innocent and poor:( Not to mention prosecutors have no oversight…they do what they want and are almost never held accountable. Sad that poor people will never get a fair trial!
@@wouldntulike2no125 the poor seek justice in court, while the rich, seek compensation and protection of their property.
Where is Saul Goodman when you need him!
Jimmy became Saul to not work as a public defendant
Lack of representation is a serious issue. Leaves people even more vulnerable to the legal system. I do evictions in Texas and I see how many people would have beat the case if they had an attorney. It's like any other abuse.
You know, politicians would get a lot more brownie points if they stopped ignoring obvious issues…
Biden says "who needs brownies when you can just eat fudge, come on man"
You seen to think politicians are here to solve problems....nope there are here to defend their donors interests aka make more money for people that allready have money. They do the bare fucking minimum and we thank them for it.
@@247tubefan i notice fbi/irs/cia/msm all give double standards to political families deeply involved with kill iraq/libya in particular
thats how politicians stay rich while print billions to ukraine/occupy syria
george bush 14y ago said add ukraine to nato foreshadow nuland f eu coup 2014 support =
1. ua-cam.com/video/nTQ3D1a-j20/v-deo.html
2001 pentagon memo kill occupy iraq to syria
ua-cam.com/video/_mrJRHwbVG8/v-deo.html
@@christianterrill3503 i notice fbi/irs/cia/msm all give double standards to political families deeply involved with kill iraq/libya in particular
thats how politicians stay rich while print billions to ukraine/occupy syria
george bush 14y ago said add ukraine to nato foreshadow nuland f eu coup 2014 support =
1. ua-cam.com/video/nTQ3D1a-j20/v-deo.html
2001 pentagon memo kill occupy iraq to syria
ua-cam.com/video/_mrJRHwbVG8/v-deo.html
@@christianterrill3503
Nope.
The ENTIRE purpose of politics is opposition.
A politician, in turn, is supposed to oppose that which is bad for their constituents.
Once everything is running great, and has no problems…there will be nothing to oppose.
No more need for politicians.
People vote. Managers and appointed positions run the infrastructure.
A politician…..opposes…thoughts and ideas of those who actually handle the situation.
Nothing more.
This is a perfect example of how corruption and unfair practices will always come back to bite you in the rear end it used to be that to become a lawyer all you had to do was pass the bar and then intern under a lawyer or with a law firm but this loophole was closed in almost every state requiring you to attend an expensive university or college and then law school putting becoming a lawyer out of reach for a lot of people
that was a system that ensured that lawyers were white guys who trained white guys who thought just like them. it was a terrible system that put becoming a lawyer out of reach for most people regardless of how much money they had.
When the female judge said that the public defender need to get some of the cases that have been pending for a long time settled. She meny just plea all of them out to get them off the books.
A Oregon County solved this issue just last month, The District Attorney for Lane county has stopped prosecuting all criminal offenses except for class A & B felonies; everything else, except violent crime, is ignored. Turns out the DA's office is low on attorneys as well.
God that’s fucking crazy.
There's also an ulterior motive to jail more people as many prisons are privately owned and receive funds from the government to operate. These prisons also have programs that employ the prisoners to produce goods sold by the prisons that they (prisons) earn a profit on, but pay the prisoners far below minimum wage.
This, and the bail/bond system are a form of modern-day slavery. Although, I think those accused of violent crimes should spend time behind bars but such prisons should function more as rehabilitation facilities than as prisons.
Are there private prisons in Oregon?
You need to read The Golden Gulag by Ruth Gilmore. Many people misidentify the problem. Private prisons only represent 8% of the total prison population in the U.S. and they very rarely employ prisoners to produce goods. The reason so many Americans are incarcerated is because public prisons provide a stable economy in places decimated by NAFTA, which allowed American companies to outsource their labor to countries with fewer worker protections. What this means is that those voters in those areas are feeding their families by being corrections officers, administrative assistants, bail bondsmen etc. when they used to work in steel mills, automotive plants, and manufacturing.
America has become so dependent on cheap imported goods, that we are willing to point the finger anywhere else, but the real problem is that we sold our souls to the proverbial devil and the price is the freedoms and rights of our own citizens in order to keep getting $20 sheets from Malaysia.
How can we fix this? Well, we would need to put some pretty stringent trade agreements and tariffs in place to start and bring industry back to the states where we can reemploy a lot of these incarcerated folks and folks working in low-income service sectors, then funnel them into critical worker shortage areas. Get them some employment so they can take care of themselves and feel a sense of pride and purpose. We need to incentivize buying American goods and services.
Then tax Americans, especially the upper echelon. We need a revamp of watchdog agencies to monitor government spending for graft and waste, especially in the defense sector.
And this is not a popular solution, but it is a sensible and practical solution, we need to re-budget the money toward in-patient state hospitals for the mentally ill that Reagan decimated and make sure they are monitored closely to avoid abuse.
We need an alternative to the military for civil service, where young folks can go and get trained in the trades by helping repair American infrastructure and earn something similar to the GI bill so they don't become mired in debt.
We need to provide cheap, accessible birth control and sex education to help people plan their families rather than bringing another person into this mess without being prepared.
We need to end the war on drugs. Drugs already won. This could be accomplished by complete legalization of all drugs, where people can get their poison of choice from a regulated dispensary and be educated on the side effects and damage. Behavior on those drugs is the problem, not the substance. If we were really concerned, alcohol would be illegal, as it is one of the most dangerous drugs out there. This would starve the cartels in Mexico and reduce street crime significantly.
When you attack the problem from the root, the rest of it is much easier to dig out. If you provide an alternative to the prison economy, most folks will jump at it. It's low-paid, violent, undignified, depressing work. Fewer desperate folk = fewer criminals = less need for prison economy.
Obviously, there will still be a need to separate folks from society who've committed crimes, but there is no reason we can't use those places, not as a building to let people rot on the taxpayer's dime, but as a place to keep the violent ones away from everyone else while still being useful. I actually see no problem with prison labor as long as it's not cruel, is consensual, and is monitored closely. Those programs are so full in prisons, they usually don't have room for all the inmates. Why not have people actually pay off their debt to society by fixing vehicles, farming, studying law, cleaning, assembling parts, etc.?
All of this is extraordinarily complicated, expensive, and difficult and would require intense sacrifice from the U.S. for our fellow citizens, especially politicians, so I don't see it happening, but here's a tiny sliver of a large solution.
@@rskye11 That was quite informative and insightful. Thanks.
“Do you feel like your constitutional rights are being violated by not having an attorney?”
“What constitutional rights, man? This is Washington County. They don’t exist.”
Damn. That says so much about the current constitutional crisis of no legal representation for people who absolutely need it.
This is ridiculous. Some of those individuals awaiting representation should be looking into filing federal lawsuits! As for the solution of “work harder”, it’s bullshit… The MUST be a balance between quality and quantity when it comes to legal representation! Sure, a PD could take on 20 more cases, but then ALL of their clients will suffer because the PD won’t be able to devote the requisite amount of time to each case. Spending longer waiting for an attorney than you would if you received the maximum penalty for your misdemeanor is mind boggling and the fact that judges are refusing to dismiss those cases confounds me further. I say, if the charges aren’t violent, cut them loose! They’ve already served their time for a crime they haven’t been convicted of. They touch on it in the piece, when you get arrested, your entire life is in jeopardy even for the pettiest of offenses. When you can’t make bond, you’re fucked… A simple misdemeanor that would normally carry a fine and maybe some community service is now costing people months in jail and leaving them zero chance to correct the situation. People don’t often consider how devastating that can be. You miss work and can’t call and explain why (even if you can, it rarely works out great when calling one’s employer to inform them of your incarceration). That rolls into not being able to pay rent/mortgage, which leads to loss of their home. Unpaid bills pile up further damaging their credit, digging the hole deeper… By the time they do get out, they’re in debt, homeless, unemployed and sporting a record. Out of sheer desperation, they’re likely to commit another crime to survive, starting the cycle over again. As a convicted felon myself, I can tell you how difficult it is to even exist in the world with that stigma. Getting a good job is nearly impossible, even with a degree and other talents that are in demand. I’m not trying to brag, but I’m a card carrying Mensa member with a documented IQ of 146. I have a master’s degree in Applied and Computational Mathematics, yet because of my record, I’m basically “unemployable”. My crime wasn’t violent, but it was committed to further my addiction at the time (I’ve been clean almost 5 years now, my anniversary date is coming up on 09/27/2022). I apologize for the lengthy comment, this really got under my skin and I didn’t realize how long I was rambling
get it of your chest. Stories like yours are the reason why all of this is a real problem. Some people need a kick to get back on track - that would be fine, that is what the justice system is for - but having no track lined up for people makes the whole "justice system" an uncontrolled spiral.
Couldn’t agree more! In most European countries someone convicted of a crime serves their sentence and is then re-integrated into society. Unfortunately, we live in America where the penalty for conviction is almost always “a life sentence” (I don’t mean life in prison, I mean that it will affect you for the rest of your life). I had a stable career, benefits, a solid salary, etc., but I also had a heroin addiction (Stemming from a motorcycle accident as a teenager. I was prescribed monumental amounts of opiates from 2001-2012 and then the government cracked down. Even legitimate doctors are still afraid to prescribe any medication for pain management forcing hundreds of thousands if not millions of patients to seek relief through “back channels”.) Anyway, I wrote 2 checks knowing full well I didn’t have funds available at the time, but fully planned on depositing the funds on payday. Long story short, I didn’t deposit enough to cover the bounced checks and when I was arrested, I had dope on me. The possession charge was dropped, but the 2 checks were felony charges because of the amount. I was convicted of grand theft x 2 and sentenced to 3 years in prison. I served 21 months and was tossed back into the world with nothing. If I didn’t have a supportive family and decent friends, I would have been forced to commit more crimes to survive! That’s the real problem, our “justice system” is focused almost entirely on punishment, never giving thought to what could be done to actually rehabilitate offenders… There’s a growing number of ex-cons in America who have something to offer society and actually WANT to work, but because people see “convicted felon” in their background, they can’t even get a shot.
That's pretty much the whole point of this legal system, cuz there is no justice. They also need to keep those shareholders', which actually includes some of them, pockets lined with the profits from prison industrial complex.
You are eligible for federal work. Just may take an additional 3-6 months because of review of the case
Here in Alberta duty council has literally started their own union and is refusing to take cases until they are funded properly. I know one of these old lawyers and they are terrified. Imagine being 76 and having to fight like this at the last act of your career. What a f***ing mess.
Yeah that’s good but we have what 10-15 times the population as Canada. The government simply doesn’t care to allocate money to this.
imagine still working at 76...i sure hope i'm done long before then, heh.
The public defenders in metro Portland have to pay money to unions, and their starting pay is still less than $20k less than starting prosecutors in Washington and Clackamas County.
Re-promote this video for the next week, because this is happening everywhere especially for the poor innocent people who don't have private counsel.
This is what would happen everywhere if they didn't pressure people to just take a plea bargain. EVERYONE has a right to a trial. However, if everyone makes use of that right, the entire system collapses.
Maybe deregulating victimless crimes like drugs and prostitution would lower the caseload.
@@glhmedic That's what we did in Ann Arbor, MI. We decriminalized plant medicines and then the county prosecutor went further and decriminalized prostitution. It doesn't make it a utopia, but for those people who want to make use of psychedelic plant medicines for any number of reasons (healing, spiritual exploration, etc) this changes the set and setting of the experience. So now people aren't so worried about having their door kicked in.
These judges need to held accountable for all the rights violations of these people that are being held with out speedy trial and the right to a lawyer it falls on them at the end of the day people need to hold them accountable 💯
- We need more funding! Only a 1/3 of those in jail have a public defender due to the lack of government funding! There aren't enough attorneys!
- Hold them all in contempt for not representing their clients.
!? HUH???
There are NOT enough attorneys. How can you hold someone in contempt for not working 26 hours a day?
People say that Vice News isn’t as good as it used to be, but I think that they’re wrong. This is fantastic reporting, fantastic journalism. I hope this inspires some degree of change…
Even if you’re all about law and order and all that, everyone should support to change things because is all fun and games until you end up in trouble been innocent or guilty and end up getting screw over by the system if you can’t pay for a lawyer.
"Ive cried". Thanks Karen. Your tears affected change.
I'm surprised that the judge said that the existing public defenders need to work harder to resolve the long standing cases instead of saying recruiting and retaining more public defenders. I heard in NYC that a lot quit to work at private firms because they couldn't handle the number of cases and they got paid so poorly.
Judge wants as many people suffering as possible.
Wait, this does seem unconstitutional. These people need to have their cases dismissed or they should be able to sue.
Greatest country in the world, right?
Democrats trying hard to undo that.
@@247tubefan *undo
That entire time sitting in jail I'd be studying Oregon law, then file a motion of pro se (to represent myself) & every day I'd be filing law suits, motions, etc. etc. Until they realize, oh crap this guy is learning how to use the legal system, we better let him go. If every person arrested demanded a criminal trial the US justice system would collapse.
County jails do not have much of a law library for you to be able an study law to help your case.
File a lawsuit in the city I live in is
$400
Any motion to be considered is $57 per motion.
You would not believe how many fees the court imposes on you to file a lawsuit. Then just to dismiss it.
Yeah...Real practical..I'm sure you and hundreds of scumbags pouring tens of thousands of dollars of your own money into their system for petty nusance cases they can dismiss in 2mins would be a real hassle for them....You could just not be a scumbag and avoid jail in the first place maybe ?
Same thing here in California. I've had a misdemeanor case dragging on for a couple years now 2020. I've had a different public defender's on this same case every time ive been to court it's continued.
Been there myself, I also live in Cali. Different person every time at court, sometimes they didn't even show up and the Judge would be barking at me like I had something to do with it. Almost 4 years and they finally appointed me an outside lawyer and he got my case dismissed in a month.
We need a mass reworking of our judicial, legislative, and executive branches entirely. This has not been sustainable since the 1700s.
Thank you to the public defender's actually defending. You people are amazing and heroes.
We need public defenders for civil suites against the state.
If you run afoul of the law in Arapahoe County, Colorado you are only able to get a public defender if
You earn less than $1,000 a year
Or
You plead guilty.
One woman I saw in court explained to the judge that she couldn't get a public defender because, although unemployed, she was staying in a friend's house, house sitting. Because it was an expensive house she was deemed ineligible for a public defender. The judge told her to hire a lawyer.
I saw person after person tell judges that they couldn't afford a lawyer and weren't allowed a public defender. The judges would only repeat that the person needed to get a lawyer.
Part of the problem was that if charges were piled on high enough to make a felony, your lawyer wanted $2000 up front. But people who earn 1,000 a month don't usually have $2000 in savings.
I haven't been in a court room in Arapahoe County for a long time. Maybe it's changed.
Thank you for this video, Vice! A lot of people don't understand how harmful the lack of counsel can be for indigent defendants, or they believe that all defense attorneys are slimy and immoral for "helping criminals" so the shortage isn't a problem. Even before trial or a plea, defendants who don't have a lawyer to help them get bond are much worse off already.
The PD in the video is 100% right that funding is the biggest issue right now. Holding PDs in contempt will make things worse, and telling them "just work harder" will do nothing. Law school is mad expensive, and people who choose to be PDs will have that debt hanging over their heads for way too long. That also affects law students who might be interested in a summer PD internship, which would be unpaid, but need a paid position to get by. That in turn affects the amount of work PDs have to do, including non-legal work that could be passed off to a team of interns.
If they only made it mandatory for practicing lawyers to take a few pro Bono cases as community service every month
There wouldn't be a shortage if you paid these people what they're worth. Period. End of story.
Wow! That's so scary!
Great update thank you Vice
If they threw out drug cases and random litigation, there wouldnt be any workload issues for the attorneys. But america is too stupid to do that
So, they are indeed treating them as "Guilty until proven innocent" of they are keeping them locked up while admitting that they cannot provide a public defender/speedy trial.
Shocking 😥🤯
I find it amazing that a person can legally fire their court appointed attorney, and represent themselves, and then claim that their rights were violated because the court hasn't offered them a public defender when the case isn't going the way they want it to. the system is flawed on both sides of the fence, inmates will lie and say whatever they need to say to get out, and lawyers will lie and say whatever is needed to win the case. Or an inmate will act like they are crazy in an attempt to scam the system to benefit their needs. I wonder how many of the people that were featured on this episode were actually vetted, were public records accessed, do they show a history of criminality? do they reflect what the defendant is claiming? I will 100% agree that there are some people that are truly innocent, or people that have been wronged by the system. however if you were able to take a poll of how many of these people actually had their rights violated, vs how many claim they had their rights violated when in fact they weren't. I'm pretty sure the numbers would be one sided in favor of the latter. This is just my opinion, I've been through the system, I've committed crimes, I served my time, I made myself a better person, but in the process i've witnessed people that would claim innocence in the court, and then brag on the inside about their crimes, I can honestly say the thought crossed my mind to attempt working the system, but i didn't justice was served, as it should have been.
What’s the real life cost of dismissal of cases of possible criminals because of lack of defense lawyers?
Possible zero risk of consequences.
Some smart attorney should consider filing a class action lawsuit against the government/the state citing the Constitutional rights violation of not providing a public defendant resulted in those people losing their homes, families, health, etc.; and demand compensation for that, including punitive damages. Once the state loses a few dozen million, it will quickly find the so much-needed funding for public attorneys.
I'm an Oregonian, and this is embarrassing.
Allocation of funds, that's all I'm going to say.
Embarrassing and awful
They voted for Biden, what can you expect?
@@247tubefan I did not see trump address this issue did you?
@@247tubefan another sheep snowflake, what do I expect 🤣🤣🤣
@@PershingOfficial Yes he did, by not instituting all the ridiculous mandates. It's true he put Dr. Fugazi in place. But he wouldn't have remained much longer. The cracks in their relationship were already showing towards the end. Trump never would have let things gone this far. He would have said 🍊-"I'm hiring millions and millions of public defenders. And they will be the best and most smartest public defenders in the world"
public defender in alabama here... i've never seen someone in my county go more than a few weeks or so without getting appointed counsel.
im honestly astonished that Oregon is in such bad shape on this front. it is not an impossible task.
They denied my right to a speedy trial, and I actually had a public defender.
This was in Washington State a few years ago.
Every single time they'd push out my trial date, I'd sign my name as, "I Object", on every single court document that I had to sign.
The outcome?
My first trial started just over 90 days after I first got to jail: Mistrial, Hung Jury.
My second trial started I'm pretty sure less than a month later: Mistrial, Hung Jury.
They actually scheduled out a third trial that was set for 3 weeks out from the second, but then 4 days before the third trial was supposed to start, they offered me a misdemeanor deal with time served.
I took it.
I can confirm that in Snohomish County, your constitutional rights don't exist if you're not wealthy or at the very least connected.
I can't even imagine how it would have been if it was during the lockdowns and everything; however I'm sure that it's still awful.
Thank God I gave that life up.
Interviewer did a fantastic job. Direct questions and not letting people wiggle out of tough questions.
"we have a shortage of staff in this sector we dont know what to do"
you know... animals are mostly motivated with food... want a donkey to do your bidding, flash a carrot in front of him and he will follow you to the edge of the world... do you see where im going here?
Yep
There's a LOT of Missing Persons throughout this country who played with the wrong people and got burned Nobody will admit or try to explain that they've all been had !.
@@ruthaakamonica5602 o.O wtf you rambling about?
Both sides of our political system should be front and center to protect our 6th Amendment Rights. This should not be an issue.
wow... this is insane
This is part of why pursuing PD specifically once out of Law School and BAR passed.
This dude has left me speechless. I swear if we just had more like this guy our country would be a different place. This public defender is beacon of hope in gigantic swath of American legal darkness. And that judge ought to be ashamed of herself. Let the non violent and non sex offenders atleast post bail. The fact they are holding all those people in jail should lock up the judge. Shame on the judges that could take cases themselves. And have them heard under other judges. I work 6 days a week. A fu☆☆in Judge can too
LOL "We're looking at using law students" as public defenders. How about this cut the funds going to the D.A.'s office, use that 💰to increase funding for public defenders and use law students to prosecute as well.
That won't happen because it's a for profit system that is funded by elected officials, as this and the close(too close) relationship D.A.'s have with elected officials that fund their office.
Great "justice" system. We all know how it works... you got money you're good, if not then we'll hold you to keep our numbers where we want them.
We need to upend the payment structure of SO MANY industries. Teachers and PD lawyers are on the top of that list.
Pay public defender's more.
Privately owned prisons in the USA
They need to be taken down ASAP
It's despicable what they do.
That isn’t the issue at all. This is actually keeping people out of prison and in county sponsored jails.
@@MrBobbo18The US court system wants to send people to jail and keep them in there. The whole dishonest system. 25%of the worlds incarcerated in the land of the free. Cool/
Its called the 14th amendment as well not just the 6th. These people could sue with AI lawyer
I am actually working on that myself, I Am living in oregon, contact me if you want to help.
There’s so many issues with our legal system is saddening and alarming.
Could they possibly make lawyers sign something that says when they pass the bar and start practicing they have to take on 5 public defending cases a year, they’ll still get paid but what the public defenders get paid. I mens it would be a short term fix but maybe it could help.
I lived in Portland for a little over two years between 2015-2018, around SE 82nd street. During that time I saw a lot of how the city deals with crime and it's the dumbest system ever. Oregon's state laws really prioritize punishment over everything else even at enormous cost both economically and socially to the taxpayer. The state seems fine paying two to three times as much on jailing and harassing its citizens as opposed to paying less in preventative measures, treatment, and welfare. Your right to a phone call at the time was for like 2 minutes, then its like over $20. When you're let out of jail they don't give you a bus ticket and the prison is in the middle of a giant forest with no one around for miles. The bus drivers know the situation and so routinely let people on the bus there for free. Cops will sometimes wait at bus stops and harass people getting off the bus to see their tickets. If you don't have one, meaning you didn't pay and the driver let you on for free, you get banned from public transport for a couple of weeks so good luck if you're poor and on the bus trying to get to work and you lost your transfer. This is all stuff I know of and I've never even been arrested once in my entire life, but Oregon seems like the kind of state where they'd kick you while your down over give you a hand up any day of the week. There's so much more but I'll just add that when I was there there were only two food banks and they were both run by churches and you could only go like once a month and one of them only three times a year. When I lived in Olympia, WA they had eight food banks and many of them had vegetarian options. Most of this is stuff I know about from volunteering at places that do outreach for people in the poorest demographics. It results in a state full of desperately poor people who don't feel like anyone cares and who have literally nothing to lose. I met a homeless man on the tram downtown who clearly had dementia and was crying because he didn't know where he was and he had just been let out of prison. Like they just shoved this elderly dementia patient out onto the street.
You can legally require other attorneys to take on public defense cases in order to work in your jurisdiction by passing a law stating that any lawyer practicing law in the state must perform some amount of community service.
Good luck getting the high cost corporate lawyers to every agree to that.
@@nobodyspecial4702 They can do it or they can go practice law in another state until all states pass the same law in which case they have to do it being a doctor learning like all that is free in some countries but there’s like a rule you have give back by working for 10 years before you can fluck off to America and make way more money
Would requiring 4th year law students a field placement practicum in the public defender's office help alleviate this problem? Or maybe even create a incentivized public defender pipeline after law school for graduates? I'm sure it would be excellent experience for new lawyers. Maybe we should lower the requirements for who can serve as a public defender (i.e. some one who is certified/licensed/educated, but not exactly a practicing lawyer)? Something has to change - hell, maybe we should explore AI lawyers lol.
Or hear me out, this might be crazy ,quit putting nonviolent offenders in jail?
Its a pay problem... And the prisoners should file a class action lawsuit ! If the state cannot self regulate without violating federal constitutional laws then people need to lose there jobs for not understanding how to balance a states budget so laws cannot be violated.
@Ladie Kadie i notice fbi/irs/cia/msm all give double standards to political families deeply involved with kill iraq/libya in particular
thats how politicians stay rich while print billions to ukraine/occupy syria
george bush 14y ago said add ukraine to nato foreshadow nuland f eu coup 2014 support =
1. ua-cam.com/video/nTQ3D1a-j20/v-deo.html
2001 pentagon memo kill occupy iraq to syria
ua-cam.com/video/_mrJRHwbVG8/v-deo.html
@@ThaNarc i notice fbi/irs/cia/msm all give double standards to political families deeply involved with kill iraq/libya in particular
thats how politicians stay rich while print billions to ukraine/occupy syria
george bush 14y ago said add ukraine to nato foreshadow nuland f eu coup 2014 support =
1. ua-cam.com/video/nTQ3D1a-j20/v-deo.html
2001 pentagon memo kill occupy iraq to syria
ua-cam.com/video/_mrJRHwbVG8/v-deo.html
@Ladie Kadie Take a few steps back and wonder why people resort to theft.
Off-course, you can lock up simple thieves - and what next? What is the long therm plan?
They will not be able to get normal jobs after release, so guess what they do next: Steal again.
It is a mess with no easy fix.
I had a public defender that didn't even know what my case was about one time
awwww, that public defender is adorable ♥️♥️
What if prosecutors got paid a little less? We could then use that money to get more public defenders...
Or not building public courthouse and city building so big and expensive. My county just paid. $20 million for a new court house, county administration,
With private parking lots for employees, marble,slate,granite floors, walls, tons of glass windows. complete new office furnishings and computer’s system. Best of all Limited public access. Who benefits more from this new building the people who work in it. Or the people who paid for it.
@@HouseboundPerspectives he probably uses hunter Biden atty.
@@HouseboundPerspectives he'd just use whomever Biden uses
The public defenders here are the ones worth hearing from the most with the most valuable information about this issue. The interview at the end should have gotten a lot more screen time and shouldn't have before considered an 'extra' spot that people may not pay as much attention to. The fact is they are on the front lines and are most aware of how these human rights and constitutional rights are being abused in favor of profit and a corrupt government and legal system.
When will you guys start crediting the documentary makers? At least in the video description
I still have to pay for my public defender in my court fines and probation payments here in TX.
Seems like an easy fix. Publicly funded law school. There are plenty of people who would love to be lawyers if the training was affordable
They could even have a program where your tuition is waived or reduced as long as you agree to work for a set amount of time as a public defender after graduation.
Thats it.
This is absolutely disgusting. People just left to sit in jail whilst they wait for a public defender. They should be bailed. So glad I live in the UK. The whole system isn't the best but at least the bail part of the system works most of the time.
This is such an injustice in the justice system
Public defenders are literally only there to negotiate a plea. I’ve never seen one defend anyone. Though New Jersey can outsource to private attorney firms in circumstances, I’m not sure how much that can support.
man, I have never been happier to not be American. this is disgusting, the Russians can manage to do this and they don't imprison anywhere near the same amount of people per capita
Yeah you are correct...Russia just jails people who don't like Putin.... FAR BETTER!
This is what happens when you monetize the legal system.
I kept thinking it would be paper or staples or something
this is also happening across canada
So, as a society, we’re supposed to pay teachers to train students what to do during an active shooter massacre all in the name of protecting misinterpreted second amendment rights, but can’t lift a finger or spend a dime providing constitutionally mandated legal representation? I’m shocked, shocked I tell you that once again our society gets it exactly backwards and things aren’t working out so well! I travel to many different states for work and in recent years have started to question if it’s even safe to travel to some states. I’ve considered asking my work to provide a ballistic vest for travel to states like Texas with negligent gun laws. Add Oregon to the list of states you might want to avoid visiting. Imagine being charged with a crime there and you can’t afford an attorney?
And you innocent
Ya she's crying! Every time she sees the pay check she gets over joyed because she knows she didn't do anything for it. The corruption starts at the top. It's that trickle down effect. And the people are the ones that get burned.
How much time did you spend watching this video, if I may ask?
Biden says "all systems normal Jack" 🍦
@@robinandersson862 if the supreme Court doesn't take control of the lower courts then the corruption starts at the top. When the people walk into a Court room and have to fight for rights that are guaranteed by the Constitution. And the courts system that has taken an oath to protect. Where's the justice!
@@robinandersson862 I know to you it's just a piece of paper.
Weird because I see so much about having too many lawyers and not enough jobs. Too many graduates.
time they quote seems a bit off as most people speak to them for maybe 5-10 minutes before court hearing.