Greatly appreciate your focus and illumination on Admiral Nimitz. This is a man who deserves far more recognition than he has ever gotten, His task in WW2 was far more difficult and uncertain than that of General Eisenhower, and Admiral Nimitz handled that task with absolute brilliance. I shudder to think of how the Pacific war would have gone had that idiot MacArthur been the Supreme Commander. It is frustrating how overlooked Admiral Nimitz has been in history. This man conducted the Pacific war with such courage and brilliant efficiency that untold millions of lives on both sides were saved. He is probably the most unfairly overlooked figure in American History. VERY irritating.
MacArthur had good company. The Eighth Army Air force commanders were also pretty useless with their total reliance on heavy bombers and refusal to use fighters with fuel drop tanks until there was no alternative.
@@Dave5843-d9m Unfortunately there have been recent books like BOMBER MAFIA, written with the fatal Historian disease of "presentism" that have distorted the reality of what happened in the air war over Europe. To understand what happened in history, the historian has to mentally go back to that time, and view events from the perspective and resources available at the time. Viewing 20th Century events from a 21st Century perspective is fatal to historical accuracy. There is nonsense floating around the internet right now that the P47 Thunderbolt had already killed off the Luftwaffe top pilots before the P51B/C arrived. This nonsense is quickly proven wrong by looking at what actually happened. The heaviest losses to 8th AF bombers occurred in August and September 1943, losses so severe that daylight bombing was suspended for the remainder of 1943. Obviously the P47 Thunderbolt had not made a dent in Luftwaffe air superiority over occupied Europe by the end of 1943. And neither had the RAF Spitfires. The P47 as it existed in the critical time frame of 1943 and JAN-JUN, 1944, even with drop tanks, had a very small internal fuel supply that permitted only a very short loiter time over Germany after the external tanks were dropped. The P47, flying from England deep into Germany, after dropping tanks to engage the Luftwaffe, did not have enough loiter time to inflict much damage to the German fighter force. Republic did begin working on a long range P47N, but that plane would not be available until well into 1945. The P47N was essentially a flying fuel tank with fuel everywhere in the fuselage and in the wings, and that large fuel load would have made the P47N an extremely vulnerable aircraft, where a single 20mm hit would have blown it out of the sky. The P51B/C did have an excellent internal fuel supply that allowed a long loiter time over Germany, after external tanks were dropped. permitting the P51B/C plenty of time over Germany to engage the Luftwaffe. The official USAAF kill numbers prove this conclusively. The P47, in ETO from 1942-45 for about 26 months, shot down 3700+ German aircraft, air-to-air. The P51B/C/D/K, in ETO basically from 1944-45, about 16 months, shot down 4900+ German aircraft, air-to-air. To further prove Luftwaffe fighter force air superiority over occupied Europe well into the first quarter of 1944, the 8th Air Force bombers suffered their heaviest losses of the war during a daylight raid in March 1944. This was due to major mistakes in accurately hitting fighter relay hand-off points by P51B/C's taking over from P47's and Spitfires. Many of the P51B/C groups had a slight mistake in navigation that caused them to miss the rendezvous point, and fly past Berlin before realizing the mistake and turning around. Although the navigation error resulted in heavy losses of B17's and B24's, flying without fighter escort, the error enabled the P51B/C's to inflict a surprise attack from an unexpected direction on the Luftwaffe, dealing crippling losses for the first time to the German fighter force. In effect, March 1944 was the "beginning of the end" of Luftwaffe air superiority over occupied Europe. From that point forward, thru MAR to MAY 1944, using bombers as bait, USAAF fighters, primarily P51B/C's dealt continual crippling losses to the Luftwaffe, until the Luftwaffe ceased being an effective air force, giving control of occupied European air space to the USAAF and RAF in the critical months leading up to D-Day. Fighter command of the 8th AF had followed the directions of new 8th AF commander Gen Jimmy Doolittle, issued in JAN 1944, that the job of the fighters was to "destroy the Luftwaffe, whenever and wherever found, in the air and on the ground". As he took command of the 8th AF in JAN 1944, Gen Doolittle had been informed by Gen Eisenhower, that the Luftwaffe HAD to be neutralized as a fighting force, in order for the D-Day invasion to occur by mid-1944 as planned. Again, there is a lot of nonsense floating around the internet by fanboys favoring one aircraft or another, spouting goofy assertions by biased books. A look at 8th AF bomber losses 1943-44 quickly puts those goofy assertions out to pasture, when the hard sunshine of REALITY is shined on them!
@@Dave5843-d9m The historian's disease of "Presentism" is a mental block that prevents a present day historian from understanding the circumstances that existed at a particular time frame in history. FIRST, it must be understood that the early 8th AF commanders were inventing the doctrine of Daylight Precision Bombing as the bombing campaign progressed, because such a concept had never existed before. SECOND, it must be understood that (A) the external drop tanks were just being developed during 1943 to increase fighter range; (B) those external tanks weren't much good in 1943 to the 8th AF because the P38's severe Allison engine problems in the colder European climate made the P38 an unreliable escort, AND, the P47 as it existed in 1942-43-44, did not have enough internal fuel supply to have a meaningful loiter time over Germany to inflict significant damage to the Luftwaffe after the external tanks were dropped for combat. THIRD, In the critical time frame of JAN-JUN, 1944, only the P51B/C had the internal fuel supply after external tanks were dropped for combat, to have enough loiter time over Germany to inflict significant damage on the Luftwaffe. The P47M/N which significantly increased the P47's internal fuel supply and loiter time, did not exist until very late 1944 and early 1945. FOURTH, General Ira Eaker, who was of fundamental importance in the creation and deployment of the early 8th AF, was "promoted out of the way" when it was realized that his narrow focus on bomber tactics instead of war strategy was not going to neutralize the Luftwaffe in the critical 6 months before D-Day. General James Dolittle understood the necessity of neutralizing the Luftwaffe before it was possible for D-Day to occur, and this is why General Eisenhower engineered the change of command in the 8th AF in JAN 1944. The "Bomber Mafia" concept, cooked up by author Martin Gladwell, is a seriously flawed historical theory, by a "historian" of questionable competence, that falls completely apart when the documents, records and day-to-day activities of the 8th AF are looked at in the critically important days leading up to D-Day.
@@dukeford While the chain of command is of vital importance to the military, Admiral King also had the U.S. Navy, AND the war in Europe to manage, and could not micro-manage the Pacific. Admiral Nimitz had to act on his own judgement most of the time, and Nimitz is the architect of "island hopping" and the aggressive use of carriers under able commanders like Halsey and Spruance. Nimitz was instrumental in getting good commanders into the positions needed, because no one, not even Admiral King, knew the Officer Corps of the USN better than Nimitz.This is because Nimitz was Assistant Chief of the Bureau of Navigation for 3 years just prior to WW2.
Calculated risk involves running out of fuel also. Perhaps Fletcher not allowing his command, the only carrier deck in the area, to be susceptible to fuel exhaustion and future mobility limitarions.
I have been to the Nimitz Museum in Fredericksburg, TX and the town and museum were quite delightful. Fredericksburg is a town in the Hill Country of Texas (in my estimation the most beautiful part of Texas) that was founded by German immigrants in the late 19th century and is very quaint, also the German bakeries make excellent strudel, and the museum was very informative and had many airplanes from the PTO of WWII. I think (I might be wrong,) there was a Zero, but what impressed me the most was a TBF Avenger, man that thing was huge! All the film of Avengers on carriers in WWII doesn't give justice to the size of that airplane!!!
Appreciate your high-lighting the economy in the expenditure of lives afforded by the island bypassing / island hopping strategy. The thought that this strategy was, in the long run, conservative of Japanese lives as well as Allied lives was new to me, but was easily and immediately graspable. This does seem to more starkly highlight the tragic import of the failure of U.S. BuOrd torpedo development. The penny-wise pound-foolish refusal to test and perfect those torpedoes before deployment almost certainly prolonged the war and wasted American and Allied lives.
You guys are so great together! As a history major, and a history buff in general, you guys bring so much to the table when it comes to History Podcasts! You may have to change your name though in the near future to the Authorized History...to your continual success!
There is a scene in the most recent Midway movie where Nimitz pulls up to the offices of Hypo and it is next to a baseball field with kids playing. All the kids look over, probably all or almost all of those kids have fathers fighting in the Pacific under the command of Nimitz. The actions and inactions or Nimitz would decide whether or not their fathers came home. I am not sure if the film maker intended to create that feeling with scene, but that was my view of this scene.
In 1955 I was a member of the Marine Detachment USS Hornet. In September I, and five others were transferred to the flag of Com. Car Div.15 one of two anti submarine carrier divisions in the Pacific. The flag ship was the USS Pt. Cruz CVE 119. I knew Pt Cruz was on Guadalcanal but until I viewed your podcast on the late stages of the Guadalcanal campaign I didn’t know there was a battle there. Thanks for my enlightenment. Love the series.
I discovered your vblog while looking for more information about the "Second Battle off of Savo Island" where the New Orleans lost her bow. My father was a newly minted Seaman Apprentice and deck gunner on board. His older brother was a Marine on Guadalcanal at that time, a "John Wayne" looking guy with a foghorn voice that could blister the paint off the wall. Father said that that night was too dark to see your hand in front of your face and that after the ship took that hit he saw a ship's bow loom out of the darkness close by, he nearly strafed it until he realized that it was his ship's bow and the sailors on it were his shipmates. The quick thinking Captain of the New Orleans rammed his ships bow aground in a nearby creek to keep her from sinking while the Damage Control people sealed her leaks and reinforced the forward bulkheads with coconut palm logs from ashore.. By pumping and moving stores the forward deck was raised from 5 feet under water to 6 feet above. and the ship was backed out of the creek.
Just a tremendous series! Seth and Capt. Toti share a granularity of the details most would never remotely know without extensive reading / study. Together along with all the other contributors, they help bring life to these events as it's not easy to visit remote islands in the South Pacific. BTW - My wife's uncle was in the 3/5 Marines on the 'Canal and he would never discuss WWII. Ever. Now I can appreciate the horrors he faced. You never touched him while he slept flat on his back, both hands behind his head, with his survival knife. You yelled at hime to wake him up. All he ever said about it was because of Japanese night attacks and snipers in palm trees. Thank you so much for this series and keep up the great work.
A suggestion for an episode doing a follow up on Admiral Hart and the Asiatic Fleet after they left the Philippines mentioned in Episode 102 for the East Indies. I think the Dutch East Indies campaign especially the naval portion of the campaign would be a great episode to have especially when a future conflict will likely open in South China Sea like it did in December 1941.I would definitely like to hear Capt. Toti’s insights on working with a multinational force if he ever had in terms of communication especially with the language barriers, the politics of a multinational force, and how to react together in tactical situations. They didn’t even have a common signals book. I would imagine the language barrier between the Dutch and the English-speaking officer would have been hard enough, can’t imagine it now with Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese, Indian, and many more other Indo-Pacific languages to have a cohesive joint command. Also important to talk about how to adjust strategy when situation is deteriorating rapidly like with the loss of 2 capital ships with Prince of wales and Repulse. Hopefully the U.S. learned the lessons on fate of ABDACON on why it failed and the importance of having long-term close joint-cooperation between multinational navies which I think will be crucial to deter and if necessary to prevail over any potential adversaries in any potential future pacific conflict. There is plenty to talk about especially on USS Houston, known as FDR’S favorite ship and soon dubbed “Galloping Ghost of Java Coast ”, fighting to the last shell against a Japanese Navy arguably at its peak. The loss of Houston would go unknown for a short while but, once it was confirmed to be lost, the city of Houston rallied fiercely. The city and its people decided they would not stand idly by as the ship named after its city was lost. They held a massive campaign to replace, not only the crew but the ship as well. They had 1000 men volunteer en masse to replace the lost crew, known as The Houston Volunteers, and the location of that ceremony is marked in Downtown Houston. As far as replacing the ship, the city of Houston not only raised enough money to outright buy a replacement USS Houston CL-81 (Cleveland Class Cruiser). They were also able to fundraise the purchase of an Independence Class Light Carrier, the USS San Jacinto CVL-30, of which future president HW Bush would be stationed on. One the American destroyers, USS Alden, had XO Ernest Evans on board, future Capt. of USS Johnston received his baptism of fire during the Dutch East Indies campaign . He felt ashamed about the defeat of ABDACON, and said that if he even commanded his own destroyer he would go into harm's way no matter what. Which he did, as captain of the USS Johnston during the action off Samar, Battle of Leyte Gulf. Sorry for the long rant had to try to make a compelling case for a Dutch East Indies episode(s), since the Dutch East Indies campaign is relatively unknown in America when remembering the Pacific but important to discuss. But whatever topic you guys discuss, I’ll always be an avid listener, keep up the great work!
Those citizens of Houston, Texas were real American patriots. Try imagining organizing a fundraiser today to finance anything equivalent to that today, inflation notwithstanding; I don’t think you could raise the money to even advertise the idea from our “eligible voting population” today.
Franklin Roosevelt was assistant secretary of the Navy I suspect he was rather partial to that service. Horribly Japanese leadership would have callously thrown away much of their population to protect the very few self interested, whether they thought they were or not. We saved a lot of Japanese as awful as our methods might seem in retrospect. I greatly appreciate your presentations
Spot on about the Japanese govenment's willingness to spill civilian blood. U. S. Leadership was clearly more interested in reducing Japanese civilian casualties than the Japaneses Leadership was.
I really liked that photo of the admiral smiling. Seems he wasn't too fond of doing that. Glad it was caught on camera. He's got a lot to smile about when considering his performance during WWII.
Great fun to hear you gents. Thank you so much. I was on the old riveted USS Hector AR-7, 1984 West Pac. "n 1984, during the ship's 26th deployment, Hector steamed over 35,000 miles. She also provided disaster relief to the storm battered island of Madagascar. On this deployment Hector received two Humanitarian Medals. One was for the rescue of 28 Vietnamese refugees from a small wooden craft. For the second award, a group of Hector volunteers spent several days in a leper colony while in Madagascar." I volunteered to go into that Leper Colony. All the way out there in the middle of nowhere...Catholic Nuns were there. Amazing... I was on the special sea and anchor detail. Lee-Helm pulling into Madagascar. Took on a French Pilot on the way in. He has us headed for a sunken ship when the CPT took the Conn and said, Emergency Stop, All engines back full, Drop the Anchor. I relayed that to the Engine rm and fo'c'sle. Ha ha.. great memories to re-call. Thank you gents. BM2 Michael L. Reidy
Lee also made himself an expert on radar, which put him ahead of every other senior officer in the navy, and he used radar-controlled gunfire to great effect in the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal.
Nimitz was the Ike of the pacific. No better compliment. Patton and Halsey were almost the same personalities. Much respect for Nimitz for controlling egos.
I mean Patton was more direct comparison to MacArthur, both are media personalities and prima donna, although MacArthur is still the most prima donna of them all.
As a long time military history buff, I only just recently been focusing on the Pacific war, and finding your channel has been awesome. I'm currently finishiing Jeffrey Cox's trilogy on the Solomons campaign. After that, I plan to tackle a recent book on Nimitz's command.
@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar I completely understand. Someone else made the suggestion of an episode on ABDACOM/Java Sea which I agree with and would not be a pile on.
I love your videos, great information and insight. At 19:50 if Nimitz were in charge of Pearl Harbor on 7 December of 1941 the PBYs would have spotted the imperial fleet, the planes would have been dispersed and ready, all of the senior officers would have been nearby or on duty
Wow, that was short. To whom it may concern: My favorite admirals in order from WW2 are: Nimitz, Spruance, Lee, Lockwood, Fletcher, Halsey (through early 1943), Fletcher, Oldendorf. Just my opinion. I am open to criticism.
Great special episode guys, thanks. Has there ever been anything written about Nimitz’s day to day working relationship with the enlisted members of his staff? The unseen/unheard, but all aware people surrounding the admiral?
From Bill-- I have not seen much written about this. Traditional has the Chief of Staff serving as the CO of the enlisted unit, but Nimitz definitely interfaced as if they were his.
Excellent, you could have spent two hours on Nimitz .... I concur on your conclusions. You both cover the human factor so well and dovetail it into both the tactical and strategic status.
This is a great channel. The Nimitz & MacArthur videos were enjoyable. Do you plan on doing similar deep dives on lower camanders like Lockwood, Lemay and Kenny?
Very much appreciate you revisiting this great leader and his legacy. As I am sure there will be a future episode on Halsey, would love to hear your option's of his handling of Captain Hoover during and after the war.
15:28 Still have my copy of Nimitz-Potter since 1973. Admiral Richardson's book (On the Treadmill to Pearl Harbor) doesn't get much publicity, but it is well worth reading in the amount of detail on US fleet capabilities and thinking leading into 1940, on the warplans and politics, with a realistic contemporary assessment of the situation. It also pretty clearly spells out just why he had to be fired, and the can of worms that Nimitz turned down, and Kimmel accepted. Dental practice of the day - In 1978 the squadron dentist wanted to pull both my wisdom teeth before we deployed to the middle east, they were going to cause serious problems within a few weeks. They got one, then we deployed early - still no problems...
About FDR knowing his potential commanders... By the start of 1942, FDR had been CINC for 9 years. He had a lot of time to get to know his potential commanders
He had a stumbling ability to do so. When he was posted in Germany to learn about Diesel engines for US submarines, he made use of his limited German language ability.
The United States would have beaten Japan no matter what. But I'm less confident it would have happened in August 1945 if Chester Nimitz had not been CINCPAC. (P.S. Great episode, guys.)
Bill, I read your _World_ article when it came out. Loved it! My uncle spent time in the 37th Div. in the Philippines. As well, my paternal grandfather, a Light Colonel of engineers, commanded a Special Service battalion of construction engineers working to try to restore some of Manila's water supply. We have photos he took of the ruination of the city, plus some pictures from Corregidor. Curious -- what year did you graduate from the Academy?
Captain Toti-probably already asked and answered but how often could you feel the ghosts of Kimmel and Nimitz when you were working in their former office? Excellent podcast!
Seems to me that Fletcher was a number two type person and as such worked for Nimitz doing what he was told to do, but did not want to be the man in-charge. He was to be Nimitz's representative and would protect the Carriers assigned to him, nothing more. No independent command or responsibility for him.
Well, there is running aground and then there is running aground. It's one thing to get hung up on a muddy bottom, quite another to hit the rocks hard....
Nimitz did something great before the Battle of Midway, that forced the Japanese into their disasterous plan to take take Midway and do a lot Japan's repositioning in the Pacific. That was that Nimitz listened to the plan to do the Bomber Raid on Japan's home Islands and gave Adm King the plan to approve, then gave Halsey Hornet and Enterprise to pull it off. The Doolittle Raid so rattled Japan that Yamamoto was forced to come up with an operation that would make Japan safer and of course Nimitz saw that that failed too. But Midway was caused by Doolittle's Raid.
Actually, the Doolittle raid came from FDR. He was the one that pushed it. The genius of Nimitz was that he realized this came from the President and he the assigned his best Admiral to carry it out.
Good evening gentlemen. During the Battle of Leyte Gulf (specifically on Surigao Strait)... Why didn't both Adm. Shima and Nishimura join forces or at least coordinated their entry unto the said theatre?? I think they would still have lost but Adm. Nishimura's chances would have been better with Adm. Shima's additional 2 heavy cruisers, light cruiser and 4 destroyers. That's more "eyes" to spot the enemy, more 8 inch barrels, and more type 93's to bring into the fray. Thanks.
I'm with you, I also hope that we have the kind of leaders that Admiral Nimitz was when we need them. That being said, I don't think we do. The 60 Minutes program on our Navy's readiness to take on China was very telling when Admiral Paparo of the USS Nimitz hesitated when asked if we are ready. Even worse, Admiral Gilday, CNO, was not effective in getting more ships built and the waste that was illuminated on two programs was astonishing - $55 BILLION lost on the Zumwalt and the LCS ("the crappy little ship") and "a lost generation of ship building" has resulted. Where are the leaders who can fix this AND lead the charge, when we need them to? The greatest generation was called that for a reason, they are gone now and what we have now does not compare. My hope is that someone will emerge from the pack when we need them to.
You say, i hope that the navy will one day have an admiral like nimitz. But aside from his many strengths wasnt part of his greatness defined by the depths of the hardships the US Navy expirienced during his tenure? Maybe im not appreciating the good qork that can be done during peace. But i wonder if greatness during peacetime and wartime can be compared with equality.
Hi Seth and Bill. Are you planning to cover the sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse? Percival's much maligned leadership in the defence of Malaya and Singapore? Also the Battle of the Java Sea?
Pardon me in advance, but this episode seemed to have less content on subject than any published to date... Nimitz and King both have huge legacies and historical impact.
If you want details these are by far the best discussions. I looked up the Halsey court martial. If I was in the same position I would guess four carriers were the main battle group. Don’t know if I would, or would not leave a contingent behind. Halsey wanted as much fire power and airplanes he could muster. If Halsey was correct, he would have been the hero. But hindsight is 29/20. Still I don’t blame Halsey and at least understand his logic.
Sorry, but Halsey was never court-martialed. There are many who argue he should have been. There is a lot of nonsense on the internet about this. Instead, he was promoted to 5-stars, another controversial decision.
Adm. Nimitz was certainly the right man for the job, but there is one decision that somewhat mars the record. That is the decision to allow the Peleliu operation to go forward. Peleliu was slated for invasion initially because the original plan for the Philippines campaign was to land on the southernmost main island of Mindanao, and not Leyte in the central Philippines. Peleliu being just south of Mindanao was to be taken so the US Army could take over the Japanese airfield there to support operations on Mindanao. But when the Navy determined that Japanese forces in the Philippines, especially air forces, were weaker than anticipated the decision was made to go straight to the central Philippines and closer to Manila. Peleliu was irrelevant to this revised plan, as it was too far south for airplanes to operate effectively over Leyte. The decision to attack Leyte was made while Marines were already aboard ship for the Peleliu landing, but it still could have been called off. Nimitz decided not to do so, and the Marines landed on a heavily defended island, taking large number of casualties for something of no strategic or tactical value. Better would have been to call off the landings, and isolate another large Japanese garrison, as had been done on Rabaul and other islands in the Pacific.
Hey Bill and Seth. Between Henry Fonda, Addison Powell, Byron Morrow, Graham Beckle and Woody Harrelson. Which of these actors did the most accurate portrayal of Admiral Nimitz in film?
Bill responding: I hate to admit it, but I grudgingly came to admire Woody's portrayal. But you gotta love Fonda. I think he did Nimitz twice? In Harms Way and Midway?
@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar I hoped yuo'd think that way. After reading this question I had to go watch both movies again.. And with fresh knowledge from the podcast Woody seemed much better attunuent to character (gotta love Woody too). Neverthless ofc I love Fonda - but his Nimitz had to much of Henry in it.
Can we all agree Douglas MacArthur was a malignant narcissist and knowing this, his actions were predictable? Something all Americans should be familiar with after the last 7 years… Nimitz on the other hand, a role model for all and for all time.
Predictable? Was Inchon "Predictable"? What is more important; personality or victory? Patton was considered to have many personality flaws. Which was more important; his personality or victory? Everybody loves Bradley. Who achieved more; Patton or Bradley? The Army of the Potomac loved McClellan. Who brought them victory; McClellan or Grant? Who would you rather have as a football coach; Ray "Scooter" McLean or Vince Lombardi? Lastly, who is revered in Japanese society today; MacArthur or Nimitz? Please, I mean no disrespect here. Nimitz, as you say, is clearly a role model for all and for all time. You are on solid ground. At the same time, as a young officer, Nimitz ran his ship aground but his superiors did not destroy him. Could that happen in today's Navy or anywhere in our armed forces? I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this matter as I think is a subject of great consideration. Thanks very much.
Wait. All both of you fine gents effectively said is “Nimitz was great.” After listening to both MacArthur podcasts last night I’m very surprised that you fellows gave a man like Nimitz :24 minutes while ol’ Doug took almost 2 hours. Bummer. Anyhow all youtube cares about is the engagement, not the opinion. Still a great podcast writ large
IKR, Can you imagine a comparison of Miley and Marshall? And in my opinion, we do not have the caliber of those WW2 officers and we wont have them for a long time. When "Climate Change" is considered the overarching security threat faced by our Navy, you know we have lost moral, mental and strategic initiative. I am wondering what the "dark side " of Halsey is that is referred to by our podcast hosts. I hope it isn't what I think it is.
We will never see another Admiral Nimitz in our Navy again. We will never see sailors of the caliber of the WW2 sailors again. It pains me to observe the degradation of our military over the last 20 years or so. Nobody wants to talk about it much less admit there's a problem.
Not sure that it’s correct to say one in twenty chance of winning Midway. The US had 3 carriers and Midway island with everything Nimitz could put there. The US had one target and the Japanese had two different targets, Midway and the US carriers. Add to that the Japanese did not initially know the US carriers were there then the balance of probability of success for either side is pretty close. Then you have the different command styles of the US and Japanese navy and Admiral Yamamoto who seemed flawed in his decision making not to concentrate maximum force against the target and destroy it quickly. This “cautious” approach illustrated by limiting the size of the first air strike against Midway, or later by not hitting Guadalcanal with everything he had. Yamamoto seems to bear a lot of responsibility for Japanese failures when the Japanese had superior forces in the early stages of WW2. Bottom line here is that I suggest the odds were actually loaded towards the .US navy at Midway.
Enjoying the podcast. However from a fairness in advertising perspective it seems to me if you’re going to focus almost entirely on the US role in the Pacific war the podcast should be called that? You’re not even pretending to cover the broader Asia-pacific war.
What does it need being a good man....? I would say it's a mixture of strength of purpose but even remaining open minded, courage, willing to take responsibility, prospective, honest and fair and also life-loving. Wo0oW, that's much too stay but mistakes sometimes forgiven 😊 That's the same for a good military leader, but mistakes will never forgiven and I mean not the judgement by the public, it's the judgement of your own...
I never loved military....!!!! Also I wasn't a total pacifist ...! Born in 1962 I decided early for myself avoid military and never speak for...! Over the decades I changed my mind and I understood that humans are almost ever driven by irrationality, especially in politics and religion. Maybe it's the naive curiosity in us being open for political expiriments like communism, dictatorship, autocracy....? BUT STOP.... I made my decision and the best is living in freedom by my own decisions for my life and family. I think this is what also the idealistic writer of the US CONSTITUTION wanted. And the 1st policy should have been..."Your freedom starts by the freedom of the others!" Well done I would say and with this in mind I must claim today, mankind is far beyond from this and our world is in chaos of fascism, autho-, bureau- and technocracy, predator capitalism... The real threat of some permanent WARMONGER governments have become so SERIOUS today that I would say, we should STOP this by MILITARY FORCE....! I never thought I would say so...! But I would like to hear what NIMITZ as a military commander would say about the current situation since Crimea was occupied and COVID released by CCP and how and if he would respond to all the permanent provocative military attacks of Russia and CHINA.... espionage, disinformation, ignoring international laws, murdering citizens of foreign nations, suppressing free speech and press, hidden genocides, breaking airspace of smaller countries etc. Would Nimitz say only: "it's a decision of our politicians" or would he say enough is long ago enough and prefer to react much more aggressive as our western democracies almost ever do??? I mean how long should this further go that we pay taxes and more taxes to build our own Overkill only for the IDIOCY of some others who are open to burn down the whole world because of their sick ideologies....??? I changed my mind about this kind of political tolerance because I know what I stay for and such sociopathic megalomaniac leaders like PUTLER or KIM or Xi Jinping must be defeated ....! For sure not with NUKES but by much more strength, aggressive behavior, military actions if necessary like Crimea, as our western politicians do right now.... Anyway in a military way until these DUMB IDIOTS understand that living in FREEDOM with a free will is for anybody the best solution. For me it's and I'm open to fight for in same manner these fascist do and sacrifice anyone who's not their meanings.... Again... we're sacrificing the population of UKRAINE and a lot other countries hide behind this slaughterhouse because we're afraid of PUTLERS NUKES....???? This is not ok and absolute hypocrite to UKRAINIAN POPULATION....!!!!! Our western democracies look WEAK and honestly we are...!!! And when I would be a military commander I would say to my politicians "enough is enough! We have to respond with full strength!" Or should we further build new NUKES for next 100 years of Ifascist IDIOCY of some sociopathic leaders???? Yes, we need great commanders like Nimitz today, maybe Mr Stoltenberg is such one who knows the bucket is long ago full...
Warfare and military is the worst invention of humanity....!!! Generals, commanders and admirals were almost ever the worst characters of humanity....!!! But sometimes you can find even in the military great humans with a great character and so far I've read about some I would say Eisenhower was a great man of modern times and Nimitz too as shown in this documentary. I mean even if you have to achieve military aims you should never forget humanity and that there is only one life for any soldier to lose....! A great military leader should never forget taking responsibility for many doesn't exclude responsibility for few....
Greatly appreciate your focus and illumination on Admiral Nimitz. This is a man who deserves far more recognition than he has ever gotten, His task in WW2 was far more difficult and uncertain than that of General Eisenhower, and Admiral Nimitz handled that task with absolute brilliance. I shudder to think of how the Pacific war would have gone had that idiot MacArthur been the Supreme Commander. It is frustrating how overlooked Admiral Nimitz has been in history. This man conducted the Pacific war with such courage and brilliant efficiency that untold millions of lives on both sides were saved. He is probably the most unfairly overlooked figure in American History. VERY irritating.
MacArthur had good company. The Eighth Army Air force commanders were also pretty useless with their total reliance on heavy bombers and refusal to use fighters with fuel drop tanks until there was no alternative.
@@Dave5843-d9m Unfortunately there have been recent books like BOMBER MAFIA, written with the fatal Historian disease of "presentism" that have distorted the reality of what happened in the air war over Europe. To understand what happened in history, the historian has to mentally go back to that time, and view events from the perspective and resources available at the time. Viewing 20th Century events from a 21st Century perspective is fatal to historical accuracy.
There is nonsense floating around the internet right now that the P47 Thunderbolt had already killed off the Luftwaffe top pilots before the P51B/C arrived. This nonsense is quickly proven wrong by looking at what actually happened. The heaviest losses to 8th AF bombers occurred in August and September 1943, losses so severe that daylight bombing was suspended for the remainder of 1943. Obviously the P47 Thunderbolt had not made a dent in Luftwaffe air superiority over occupied Europe by the end of 1943. And neither had the RAF Spitfires.
The P47 as it existed in the critical time frame of 1943 and JAN-JUN, 1944, even with drop tanks, had a very small internal fuel supply that permitted only a very short loiter time over Germany after the external tanks were dropped. The P47, flying from England deep into Germany, after dropping tanks to engage the Luftwaffe, did not have enough loiter time to inflict much damage to the German fighter force. Republic did begin working on a long range P47N, but that plane would not be available until well into 1945. The P47N was essentially a flying fuel tank with fuel everywhere in the fuselage and in the wings, and that large fuel load would have made the P47N an extremely vulnerable aircraft, where a single 20mm hit would have blown it out of the sky.
The P51B/C did have an excellent internal fuel supply that allowed a long loiter time over Germany, after external tanks were dropped. permitting the P51B/C plenty of time over Germany to engage the Luftwaffe. The official USAAF kill numbers prove this conclusively. The P47, in ETO from 1942-45 for about 26 months, shot down 3700+ German aircraft, air-to-air. The P51B/C/D/K, in ETO basically from 1944-45, about 16 months, shot down 4900+ German aircraft, air-to-air.
To further prove Luftwaffe fighter force air superiority over occupied Europe well into the first quarter of 1944, the 8th Air Force bombers suffered their heaviest losses of the war during a daylight raid in March 1944. This was due to major mistakes in accurately hitting fighter relay hand-off points by P51B/C's taking over from P47's and Spitfires. Many of the P51B/C groups had a slight mistake in navigation that caused them to miss the rendezvous point, and fly past Berlin before realizing the mistake and turning around. Although the navigation error resulted in heavy losses of B17's and B24's, flying without fighter escort, the error enabled the P51B/C's to inflict a surprise attack from an unexpected direction on the Luftwaffe, dealing crippling losses for the first time to the German fighter force. In effect, March 1944 was the "beginning of the end" of Luftwaffe air superiority over occupied Europe. From that point forward, thru MAR to MAY 1944, using bombers as bait, USAAF fighters, primarily P51B/C's dealt continual crippling losses to the Luftwaffe, until the Luftwaffe ceased being an effective air force, giving control of occupied European air space to the USAAF and RAF in the critical months leading up to D-Day. Fighter command of the 8th AF had followed the directions of new 8th AF commander Gen Jimmy Doolittle, issued in JAN 1944, that the job of the fighters was to "destroy the Luftwaffe, whenever and wherever found, in the air and on the ground". As he took command of the 8th AF in JAN 1944, Gen Doolittle had been informed by Gen Eisenhower, that the Luftwaffe HAD to be neutralized as a fighting force, in order for the D-Day invasion to occur by mid-1944 as planned.
Again, there is a lot of nonsense floating around the internet by fanboys favoring one aircraft or another, spouting goofy assertions by biased books. A look at 8th AF bomber losses 1943-44 quickly puts those goofy assertions out to pasture, when the hard sunshine of REALITY is shined on them!
@@Dave5843-d9m The historian's disease of "Presentism" is a mental block that prevents a present day historian from understanding the circumstances that existed at a particular time frame in history.
FIRST, it must be understood that the early 8th AF commanders were inventing the doctrine of Daylight Precision Bombing as the bombing campaign progressed, because such a concept had never existed before.
SECOND, it must be understood that (A) the external drop tanks were just being developed during 1943 to increase fighter range; (B) those external tanks weren't much good in 1943 to the 8th AF because the P38's severe Allison engine problems in the colder European climate made the P38 an unreliable escort, AND, the P47 as it existed in 1942-43-44, did not have enough internal fuel supply to have a meaningful loiter time over Germany to inflict significant damage to the Luftwaffe after the external tanks were dropped for combat.
THIRD, In the critical time frame of JAN-JUN, 1944, only the P51B/C had the internal fuel supply after external tanks were dropped for combat, to have enough loiter time over Germany to inflict significant damage on the Luftwaffe. The P47M/N which significantly increased the P47's internal fuel supply and loiter time, did not exist until very late 1944 and early 1945.
FOURTH, General Ira Eaker, who was of fundamental importance in the creation and deployment of the early 8th AF, was "promoted out of the way" when it was realized that his narrow focus on bomber tactics instead of war strategy was not going to neutralize the Luftwaffe in the critical 6 months before D-Day. General James Dolittle understood the necessity of neutralizing the Luftwaffe before it was possible for D-Day to occur, and this is why General Eisenhower engineered the change of command in the 8th AF in JAN 1944.
The "Bomber Mafia" concept, cooked up by author Martin Gladwell, is a seriously flawed historical theory, by a "historian" of questionable competence, that falls completely apart when the documents, records and day-to-day activities of the 8th AF are looked at in the critically important days leading up to D-Day.
@@dukeford While the chain of command is of vital importance to the military, Admiral King also had the U.S. Navy, AND the war in Europe to manage, and could not micro-manage the Pacific. Admiral Nimitz had to act on his own judgement most of the time, and Nimitz is the architect of "island hopping" and the aggressive use of carriers under able commanders like Halsey and Spruance. Nimitz was instrumental in getting good commanders into the positions needed, because no one, not even Admiral King, knew the Officer Corps of the USN better than Nimitz.This is because Nimitz was Assistant Chief of the Bureau of Navigation for 3 years just prior to WW2.
Don't burn out your voice Bill! (you are sounding much better) We are all waiting for you submarine stories!
From Bill-- thank you. And yes, the submarine stories are coming...
Calculated risk involves running out of fuel also. Perhaps Fletcher not allowing his command, the only carrier deck in the area, to be susceptible to fuel exhaustion and future mobility limitarions.
I have been to the Nimitz Museum in Fredericksburg, TX and the town and museum were quite delightful. Fredericksburg is a town in the Hill Country of Texas (in my estimation the most beautiful part of Texas) that was founded by German immigrants in the late 19th century and is very quaint, also the German bakeries make excellent strudel, and the museum was very informative and had many airplanes from the PTO of WWII. I think (I might be wrong,) there was a Zero, but what impressed me the most was a TBF Avenger, man that thing was huge! All the film of Avengers on carriers in WWII doesn't give justice to the size of that airplane!!!
And the Miget sub there is well worth a visit to Fredericksburg.
@@retlasm You are correct, thank you I forgot about that.
The only one in the world. Please do see it. The one in Japan is not complete.
Skipper you are sounding great
Thank you
Another great episode, I look forward to these every week.
Appreciate your high-lighting the economy in the expenditure of lives afforded by the island bypassing / island hopping strategy. The thought that this strategy was, in the long run, conservative of Japanese lives as well as Allied lives was new to me, but was easily and immediately graspable. This does seem to more starkly highlight the tragic import of the failure of U.S. BuOrd torpedo development. The penny-wise pound-foolish refusal to test and perfect those torpedoes before deployment almost certainly prolonged the war and wasted American and Allied lives.
Really loving this series and we are only at the start of 43! Doing a great job.
Thank you
He was one of the early Submariners. I Qualified on SSN603 in 1982
I worked on her sisters Jack 605, Tinosa 606, Greenling 614, and 615 Gato starting in 1982.
Nimitz was the right man for the job.
You guys are so great together! As a history major, and a history buff in general, you guys bring so much to the table when it comes to History Podcasts! You may have to change your name though in the near future to the Authorized History...to your continual success!
Our pleasure!
There is a scene in the most recent Midway movie where Nimitz pulls up to the offices of Hypo and it is next to a baseball field with kids playing. All the kids look over, probably all or almost all of those kids have fathers fighting in the Pacific under the command of Nimitz. The actions and inactions or Nimitz would decide whether or not their fathers came home. I am not sure if the film maker intended to create that feeling with scene, but that was my view of this scene.
In 1955 I was a member of the Marine Detachment USS Hornet. In September I, and five others were transferred to the flag of Com. Car Div.15 one of two anti submarine carrier divisions in the Pacific. The flag ship was the USS Pt. Cruz CVE 119. I knew Pt Cruz was on Guadalcanal but until I viewed your podcast on the late stages of the Guadalcanal campaign I didn’t know there was a battle there. Thanks for my enlightenment. Love the series.
I discovered your vblog while looking for more information about the "Second Battle off of Savo Island" where the New Orleans lost her bow. My father was a newly minted Seaman Apprentice and deck gunner on board. His older brother was a Marine on Guadalcanal at that time, a "John Wayne" looking guy with a foghorn voice that could blister the paint off the wall.
Father said that that night was too dark to see your hand in front of your face and that after the ship took that hit he saw a ship's bow loom out of the darkness close by, he nearly strafed it until he realized that it was his ship's bow and the sailors on it were his shipmates.
The quick thinking Captain of the New Orleans rammed his ships bow aground in a nearby creek to keep her from sinking while the Damage Control people sealed her leaks and reinforced the forward bulkheads with coconut palm logs from ashore.. By pumping and moving stores the forward deck was raised from 5 feet under water to 6 feet above. and the ship was backed out of the creek.
Just a tremendous series! Seth and Capt. Toti share a granularity of the details most would never remotely know without extensive reading / study. Together along with all the other contributors, they help bring life to these events as it's not easy to visit remote islands in the South Pacific. BTW - My wife's uncle was in the 3/5 Marines on the 'Canal and he would never discuss WWII. Ever. Now I can appreciate the horrors he faced. You never touched him while he slept flat on his back, both hands behind his head, with his survival knife. You yelled at hime to wake him up. All he ever said about it was because of Japanese night attacks and snipers in palm trees. Thank you so much for this series and keep up the great work.
Incredible story about your uncle. And thanks for the kind words.
Bill and Seth, Thankyou for your effort, I binge watch the whole set and will watch your continued offerings
A suggestion for an episode doing a follow up on Admiral Hart and the Asiatic Fleet after they left the Philippines mentioned in Episode 102 for the East Indies. I think the Dutch East Indies campaign especially the naval portion of the campaign would be a great episode to have especially when a future conflict will likely open in South China Sea like it did in December 1941.I would definitely like to hear Capt. Toti’s insights on working with a multinational force if he ever had in terms of communication especially with the language barriers, the politics of a multinational force, and how to react together in tactical situations. They didn’t even have a common signals book. I would imagine the language barrier between the Dutch and the English-speaking officer would have been hard enough, can’t imagine it now with Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese, Indian, and many more other Indo-Pacific languages to have a cohesive joint command. Also important to talk about how to adjust strategy when situation is deteriorating rapidly like with the loss of 2 capital ships with Prince of wales and Repulse.
Hopefully the U.S. learned the lessons on fate of ABDACON on why it failed and the importance of having long-term close joint-cooperation between multinational navies which I think will be crucial to deter and if necessary to prevail over any potential adversaries in any potential future pacific conflict.
There is plenty to talk about especially on USS Houston, known as FDR’S favorite ship and soon dubbed “Galloping Ghost of Java Coast ”, fighting to the last shell against a Japanese Navy arguably at its peak.
The loss of Houston would go unknown for a short while but, once it was confirmed to be lost, the city of Houston rallied fiercely. The city and its people decided they would not stand idly by as the ship named after its city was lost. They held a massive campaign to replace, not only the crew but the ship as well. They had 1000 men volunteer en masse to replace the lost crew, known as The Houston Volunteers, and the location of that ceremony is marked in Downtown Houston. As far as replacing the ship, the city of Houston not only raised enough money to outright buy a replacement USS Houston CL-81 (Cleveland Class Cruiser). They were also able to fundraise the purchase of an Independence Class Light Carrier, the USS San Jacinto CVL-30, of which future president HW Bush would be stationed on.
One the American destroyers, USS Alden, had XO Ernest Evans on board, future Capt. of USS Johnston received his baptism of fire during the Dutch East Indies campaign . He felt ashamed about the defeat of ABDACON, and said that if he even commanded his own destroyer he would go into harm's way no matter what. Which he did, as captain of the USS Johnston during the action off Samar, Battle of Leyte Gulf.
Sorry for the long rant had to try to make a compelling case for a Dutch East Indies episode(s), since the Dutch East Indies campaign is relatively unknown in America when remembering the Pacific but important to discuss. But whatever topic you guys discuss, I’ll always be an avid listener, keep up the great work!
Those citizens of Houston, Texas were real American patriots. Try imagining organizing a fundraiser today to finance anything equivalent to that today, inflation notwithstanding; I don’t think you could raise the money to even advertise the idea from our “eligible voting population” today.
We have it on our list list as potentials, but there is so much to cover and so little time!
Franklin Roosevelt was assistant secretary of the Navy I suspect he was rather partial to that service. Horribly Japanese leadership would have callously thrown away much of their population to protect the very few self interested, whether they thought they were or not. We saved a lot of Japanese as awful as our methods might seem in retrospect. I greatly appreciate your presentations
Spot on about the Japanese govenment's willingness to spill civilian blood. U. S. Leadership was clearly more interested in reducing Japanese civilian casualties than the Japaneses Leadership was.
Japan was working on their own nuclear bomb. It’s highly likely the top brass delayed surrender because they were hoping to trigger a test bomb.
Going back and re-listening to podcasts. So much info I find them as enjoyable the second time as much as the first time. Thanks for the great show!!
God knows.... exactly! Providence played a HUGE roll in the Pacific war.
Excelent episode as always.
I have only one humble petition - make longer, looooongeeeer episodes . Pretty please.
(if Bill's voice allows ofc)
Bill's voice responding: we will endeavor to do our best...
Informative and entertaining. Thanks
I really liked that photo of the admiral smiling. Seems he wasn't too fond of doing that. Glad it was caught on camera. He's got a lot to smile about when considering his performance during WWII.
Enjoyed it, gentlemen, thank you.
Great fun to hear you gents. Thank you so much.
I was on the old riveted USS Hector AR-7, 1984 West Pac.
"n 1984, during the ship's 26th deployment, Hector steamed over 35,000 miles. She also provided disaster relief to the storm battered island of Madagascar. On this deployment Hector received two Humanitarian Medals. One was for the rescue of 28 Vietnamese refugees from a small wooden craft. For the second award, a group of Hector volunteers spent several days in a leper colony while in Madagascar." I volunteered to go into that Leper Colony. All the way out there in the middle of nowhere...Catholic Nuns were there. Amazing...
I was on the special sea and anchor detail. Lee-Helm pulling into Madagascar. Took on a French Pilot on the way in. He has us headed for a sunken ship when the CPT took the Conn and said, Emergency Stop, All engines back full, Drop the Anchor. I relayed that to the Engine rm and fo'c'sle. Ha ha.. great memories to re-call. Thank you gents.
BM2 Michael L. Reidy
Thanks Seth, Captain Toti, once again you knocked it out of the park. I enjoyed your presentation. You're appreciated.
Lee also made himself an expert on radar, which put him ahead of every other senior officer in the navy, and he used radar-controlled gunfire to great effect in the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal.
No doubt!
Nimitz was the Ike of the pacific. No better compliment. Patton and Halsey were almost the same personalities. Much respect for Nimitz for controlling egos.
I mean Patton was more direct comparison to MacArthur, both are media personalities and prima donna, although MacArthur is still the most prima donna of them all.
Our victory in the war boils down to three factors. Providence, leadership and individual heroism and sacrifice.
As a long time military history buff, I only just recently been focusing on the Pacific war, and finding your channel has been awesome.
I'm currently finishiing Jeffrey Cox's trilogy on the Solomons campaign. After that, I plan to tackle a recent book on Nimitz's command.
Great new Nimitz installment! Will we be fortunate enough for another Dougout Doug episode in the future?
We are not fond of piling on. But if another issue emerges that we haven't covered....
@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar I completely understand. Someone else made the suggestion of an episode on ABDACOM/Java Sea which I agree with and would not be a pile on.
Any study of leadership should as a matter of course include a study of Adm Nimitz.
"It all starts at the top..." good God, look at what we've got at the top of the Navy today. 😢😢😢
Thanks!
I love your videos, great information and insight. At 19:50 if Nimitz were in charge of Pearl Harbor on 7 December of 1941 the PBYs would have spotted the imperial fleet, the planes would have been dispersed and ready, all of the senior officers would have been nearby or on duty
Admiral King's best decision ever was making Admiral Nimitz his effective Executive Officer.
Thank You!
Wow, that was short.
To whom it may concern: My favorite admirals in order from WW2 are:
Nimitz, Spruance, Lee, Lockwood, Fletcher, Halsey (through early 1943), Fletcher, Oldendorf. Just my opinion. I am open to criticism.
Great special episode guys, thanks. Has there ever been anything written about Nimitz’s day to day working relationship with the enlisted members of his staff? The unseen/unheard, but all aware people surrounding the admiral?
From Bill-- I have not seen much written about this. Traditional has the Chief of Staff serving as the CO of the enlisted unit, but Nimitz definitely interfaced as if they were his.
Excellent, you could have spent two hours on Nimitz .... I concur on your conclusions. You both cover the human factor so well and dovetail it into both the tactical and strategic status.
This is a great channel. The Nimitz & MacArthur videos were enjoyable. Do you plan on doing similar deep dives on lower camanders like Lockwood, Lemay and Kenny?
Lockwood is definitely on our radar.
Very much appreciate you revisiting this great leader and his legacy. As I am sure there will be a future episode on Halsey, would love to hear your option's of his handling of Captain Hoover during and after the war.
15:28 Still have my copy of Nimitz-Potter since 1973.
Admiral Richardson's book (On the Treadmill to Pearl Harbor) doesn't get much publicity, but it is well worth reading in the amount of detail on US fleet capabilities and thinking leading into 1940, on the warplans and politics, with a realistic contemporary assessment of the situation. It also pretty clearly spells out just why he had to be fired, and the can of worms that Nimitz turned down, and Kimmel accepted.
Dental practice of the day - In 1978 the squadron dentist wanted to pull both my wisdom teeth before we deployed to the middle east, they were going to cause serious problems within a few weeks. They got one, then we deployed early - still no problems...
Bill responding-- 1974 they pulled mine!
About FDR knowing his potential commanders... By the start of 1942, FDR had been CINC for 9 years. He had a lot of time to get to know his potential commanders
Did Nimitz speak German? Really enjoying your podcast/youtube channel. Keep em coming!
He had a stumbling ability to do so. When he was posted in Germany to learn about Diesel engines for US submarines, he made use of his limited German language ability.
The United States would have beaten Japan no matter what. But I'm less confident it would have happened in August 1945 if Chester Nimitz had not been CINCPAC. (P.S. Great episode, guys.)
It's the ships I worry about two or three dozen destroyers and a handful of cruisers is not enough.
Bill, I read your _World_ article when it came out. Loved it! My uncle spent time in the 37th Div. in the Philippines. As well, my paternal grandfather, a Light Colonel of engineers, commanded a Special Service battalion of construction engineers working to try to restore some of Manila's water supply. We have photos he took of the ruination of the city, plus some pictures from Corregidor.
Curious -- what year did you graduate from the Academy?
From Bill-- thank you. Would love to see those photos
Captain Toti-probably already asked and answered but how often could you feel the ghosts of Kimmel and Nimitz when you were working in their former office?
Excellent podcast!
Seems to me that Fletcher was a number two type person and as such worked for Nimitz doing what he was told to do, but did not want to be the man in-charge. He was to be Nimitz's representative and would protect the Carriers assigned to him, nothing more. No independent command or responsibility for him.
Well, there is running aground and then there is running aground. It's one thing to get hung up on a muddy bottom, quite another to hit the rocks hard....
Nimitz did something great before the Battle of Midway, that forced the Japanese into their disasterous plan to take take Midway and do a lot Japan's repositioning in the Pacific. That was that Nimitz listened to the plan to do the Bomber Raid on Japan's home Islands and gave Adm King the plan to approve, then gave Halsey Hornet and Enterprise to pull it off. The Doolittle Raid so rattled Japan that Yamamoto was forced to come up with an operation that would make Japan safer and of course Nimitz saw that that failed too. But Midway was caused by Doolittle's Raid.
Actually, the Doolittle raid came from FDR. He was the one that pushed it. The genius of Nimitz was that he realized this came from the President and he the assigned his best Admiral to carry it out.
@@johnfleet235 No, FDR only demanded something be done.
Admirable Nimitz should have been the one to accept the surrender of Japan instead of dougout Doug.
So Presidents Roosevelt and Truman made a mistake along with that idiot Marshall, correct?
I think I will read some of the books about Nimitz what do you guys suggest I read?
Nimitz at War is a good one.
Good evening gentlemen. During the Battle of Leyte Gulf (specifically on Surigao Strait)... Why didn't both Adm. Shima and Nishimura join forces or at least coordinated their entry unto the said theatre?? I think they would still have lost but Adm. Nishimura's chances would have been better with Adm. Shima's additional 2 heavy cruisers, light cruiser and 4 destroyers. That's more "eyes" to spot the enemy, more 8 inch barrels, and more type 93's to bring into the fray. Thanks.
A question for a future season...
Capt. Toti, did you know a Bill Stoffel ( merchant marine), or Capt. Mike Stoffel who served on the Nautilus?
I'm with you, I also hope that we have the kind of leaders that Admiral Nimitz was when we need them. That being said, I don't think we do. The 60 Minutes program on our Navy's readiness to take on China was very telling when Admiral Paparo of the USS Nimitz hesitated when asked if we are ready. Even worse, Admiral Gilday, CNO, was not effective in getting more ships built and the waste that was illuminated on two programs was astonishing - $55 BILLION lost on the Zumwalt and the LCS ("the crappy little ship") and "a lost generation of ship building" has resulted. Where are the leaders who can fix this AND lead the charge, when we need them to? The greatest generation was called that for a reason, they are gone now and what we have now does not compare. My hope is that someone will emerge from the pack when we need them to.
You say, i hope that the navy will one day have an admiral like nimitz. But aside from his many strengths wasnt part of his greatness defined by the depths of the hardships the US Navy expirienced during his tenure? Maybe im not appreciating the good qork that can be done during peace. But i wonder if greatness during peacetime and wartime can be compared with equality.
I have always thought that MacArthur was vastly over-rated and that Admiral Nimitz was vastly under-rated.
Hi Seth and Bill. Are you planning to cover the sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse? Percival's much maligned leadership in the defence of Malaya and Singapore? Also the Battle of the Java Sea?
We will probably do that engagement at some point, yes.
Due a similar series but from the Japanese perspective. Start with the book "Death of a Navy".
Pardon me in advance, but this episode seemed to have less content on subject than any published to date... Nimitz and King both have huge legacies and historical impact.
Yes this was just a short special one off episode we did.
If you want details these are by far the best discussions.
I looked up the Halsey court martial. If I was in the same position I would guess four carriers were the main battle group. Don’t know if I would, or would not leave a contingent behind. Halsey wanted as much fire power and airplanes he could muster. If Halsey was correct, he would have been the hero. But hindsight is 29/20. Still I don’t blame Halsey and at least understand his logic.
Sorry, but Halsey was never court-martialed. There are many who argue he should have been. There is a lot of nonsense on the internet about this. Instead, he was promoted to 5-stars, another controversial decision.
Adm. Nimitz was certainly the right man for the job, but there is one decision that somewhat mars the record. That is the decision to allow the Peleliu operation to go forward. Peleliu was slated for invasion initially because the original plan for the Philippines campaign was to land on the southernmost main island of Mindanao, and not Leyte in the central Philippines. Peleliu being just south of Mindanao was to be taken so the US Army could take over the Japanese airfield there to support operations on Mindanao. But when the Navy determined that Japanese forces in the Philippines, especially air forces, were weaker than anticipated the decision was made to go straight to the central Philippines and closer to Manila. Peleliu was irrelevant to this revised plan, as it was too far south for airplanes to operate effectively over Leyte. The decision to attack Leyte was made while Marines were already aboard ship for the Peleliu landing, but it still could have been called off. Nimitz decided not to do so, and the Marines landed on a heavily defended island, taking large number of casualties for something of no strategic or tactical value. Better would have been to call off the landings, and isolate another large Japanese garrison, as had been done on Rabaul and other islands in the Pacific.
Did Admr. Halsey retire in Connecticut
Hey Bill and Seth.
Between Henry Fonda, Addison Powell, Byron Morrow, Graham Beckle and Woody Harrelson. Which of these actors did the most accurate portrayal of Admiral Nimitz in film?
Bill responding: I hate to admit it, but I grudgingly came to admire Woody's portrayal. But you gotta love Fonda. I think he did Nimitz twice? In Harms Way and Midway?
@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar thank you.
@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar I hoped yuo'd think that way.
After reading this question I had to go watch both movies again..
And with fresh knowledge from the podcast Woody seemed much better attunuent to character (gotta love Woody too).
Neverthless ofc I love Fonda - but his Nimitz had to much of Henry in it.
Military Flag and General officers are not "Fighters" today . They are Bureaucrats.
Can we all agree Douglas MacArthur was a malignant narcissist and knowing this, his actions were predictable? Something all Americans should be familiar with after the last 7 years… Nimitz on the other hand, a role model for all and for all time.
Predictable? Was Inchon "Predictable"? What is more important; personality or victory? Patton was considered to have many personality flaws. Which was more important; his personality or victory? Everybody loves Bradley. Who achieved more; Patton or Bradley? The Army of the Potomac loved McClellan. Who brought them victory; McClellan or Grant? Who would you rather have as a football coach; Ray "Scooter" McLean or Vince Lombardi? Lastly, who is revered in Japanese society today; MacArthur or Nimitz? Please, I mean no disrespect here. Nimitz, as you say, is clearly a role model for all and for all time. You are on solid ground. At the same time, as a young officer, Nimitz ran his ship aground but his superiors did not destroy him. Could that happen in today's Navy or anywhere in our armed forces? I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this matter as I think is a subject of great consideration. Thanks very much.
Wait. All both of you fine gents effectively said is “Nimitz was great.” After listening to both MacArthur podcasts last night I’m very surprised that you fellows gave a man like Nimitz :24 minutes while ol’ Doug took almost 2 hours. Bummer. Anyhow all youtube cares about is the engagement, not the opinion. Still a great podcast writ large
That was our second episode on Nimitz though
How about the role of Adm Leakey as FDR ‘s naval aide
Yes-- we should cover Leahy.
Permission to come aboard?!?!!!
Permission granted!
Currently we have the military men to lead us in difficult times, But those in Washington wont let them.
IKR, Can you imagine a comparison of Miley and Marshall? And in my opinion, we do not have the caliber of those WW2 officers and we wont have them for a long time. When "Climate Change" is considered the overarching security threat faced by our Navy, you know we have lost moral, mental and strategic initiative. I am wondering what the "dark side " of Halsey is that is referred to by our podcast hosts. I hope it isn't what I think it is.
We will never see another Admiral Nimitz in our Navy again. We will never see sailors of the caliber of the WW2 sailors again. It pains me to observe the degradation of our military over the last 20 years or so. Nobody wants to talk about it much less admit there's a problem.
Don't worry, we have now Rachel Levine.
Not sure that it’s correct to say one in twenty chance of winning Midway. The US had 3 carriers and Midway island with everything Nimitz could put there. The US had one target and the Japanese had two different targets, Midway and the US carriers. Add to that the Japanese did not initially know the US carriers were there then the balance of probability of success for either side is pretty close. Then you have the different command styles of the US and Japanese navy and Admiral Yamamoto who seemed flawed in his decision making not to concentrate maximum force against the target and destroy it quickly. This “cautious” approach illustrated by limiting the size of the first air strike against Midway, or later by not hitting Guadalcanal with everything he had. Yamamoto seems to bear a lot of responsibility for Japanese failures when the Japanese had superior forces in the early stages of WW2.
Bottom line here is that I suggest the odds were actually loaded towards the .US navy at Midway.
Jon Parshall makes much the same point in a later episode.
Too short of an episode
Enjoying the podcast. However from a fairness in advertising perspective it seems to me if you’re going to focus almost entirely on the US role in the Pacific war the podcast should be called that? You’re not even pretending to cover the broader Asia-pacific war.
We've got some Aussie material coming soon.
What does it need being a good man....?
I would say it's a mixture of strength of purpose but even remaining open minded, courage, willing to take responsibility, prospective, honest and fair and also life-loving. Wo0oW, that's much too stay but mistakes sometimes forgiven 😊
That's the same for a good military leader, but mistakes will never forgiven and I mean not the judgement by the public, it's the judgement of your own...
I never loved military....!!!! Also I wasn't a total pacifist ...! Born in 1962 I decided early for myself avoid military and never speak for...!
Over the decades I changed my mind and I understood that humans are almost ever driven by irrationality, especially in politics and religion. Maybe it's the naive curiosity in us being open for political expiriments like communism, dictatorship, autocracy....?
BUT STOP.... I made my decision and the best is living in freedom by my own decisions for my life and family. I think this is what also the idealistic writer of the US CONSTITUTION wanted. And the 1st policy should have been..."Your freedom starts by the freedom of the others!"
Well done I would say and with this in mind I must claim today, mankind is far beyond from this and our world is in chaos of fascism, autho-, bureau- and technocracy, predator capitalism...
The real threat of some permanent WARMONGER governments have become so SERIOUS today that I would say, we should STOP this by MILITARY FORCE....!
I never thought I would say so...! But I would like to hear what NIMITZ as a military commander would say about the current situation since Crimea was occupied and COVID released by CCP and how and if he would respond to all the permanent provocative military attacks of Russia and CHINA.... espionage, disinformation, ignoring international laws, murdering citizens of foreign nations, suppressing free speech and press, hidden genocides, breaking airspace of smaller countries etc.
Would Nimitz say only: "it's a decision of our politicians" or would he say enough is long ago enough and prefer to react much more aggressive as our western democracies almost ever do???
I mean how long should this further go that we pay taxes and more taxes to build our own Overkill only for the IDIOCY of some others who are open to burn down the whole world because of their sick ideologies....??? I changed my mind about this kind of political tolerance because I know what I stay for and such sociopathic megalomaniac leaders like PUTLER or KIM or Xi Jinping must be defeated ....! For sure not with NUKES but by much more strength, aggressive behavior, military actions if necessary like Crimea, as our western politicians do right now.... Anyway in a military way until these DUMB IDIOTS understand that living in FREEDOM with a free will is for anybody the best solution. For me it's and I'm open to fight for in same manner these fascist do and sacrifice anyone who's not their meanings....
Again... we're sacrificing the population of UKRAINE and a lot other countries hide behind this slaughterhouse because we're afraid of PUTLERS NUKES....???? This is not ok and absolute hypocrite to UKRAINIAN POPULATION....!!!!! Our western democracies look WEAK and honestly we are...!!! And when I would be a military commander I would say to my politicians "enough is enough! We have to respond with full strength!"
Or should we further build new NUKES for next 100 years of Ifascist IDIOCY of some sociopathic leaders????
Yes, we need great commanders like Nimitz today, maybe Mr Stoltenberg is such one who knows the bucket is long ago full...
Warfare and military is the worst invention of humanity....!!!
Generals, commanders and admirals were almost ever the worst characters of humanity....!!!
But sometimes you can find even in the military great humans with a great character and so far I've read about some I would say Eisenhower was a great man of modern times and Nimitz too as shown in this documentary. I mean even if you have to achieve military aims you should never forget humanity and that there is only one life for any soldier to lose....!
A great military leader should never forget taking responsibility for many doesn't exclude responsibility for few....