Is the Roland Fantom 0 for You?
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- Опубліковано 11 тра 2024
- This is a one year review of the Roland Fantom 0. The Roland Fantom 0 Series is a more budget friendly offering from Roland. This keyboard is very versatile and can be the go to keyboard for many musicians. But it does have a few shortcomings that will make some look in another direction. Is it for you? Let's take a look.
Video: Comparison Between Fantom and Fantom 0
• The Roland Fantom-0 vs...
Video: Polyphony Problems with Roland Fantom
• Roland Fantom Polyphon...
Video: Roland Fantom Overview
• The Roland Fantom! Sho...
0:00-Intro
1:00-Build Quality/Front Panel
7:05-User Interface
11:00-Realtime Control
17:06-Assigning Control Parameters
21:47-Virtual Tone Wheel Organ
25:56-Keyboard Versatility
32:27-Thoughts on Sequencer
33:48-Thoughts on Sampler
37:13-Polyphony Limitations
50:20-Final Thoughts
Fantastic review Darrick! I've had the Fantom 08 for almost a year and your review is spot on. Great keyboard that comes up just a little short in a few areas. Actually learned a few tricks from this video! Love hearing honest insights from a real professional keyboardist. Cheers!
Thank you so much again, Darrick, for this great review. Thankfully I have already got a MODX7+ which I could use together with my iOS instruments to overcome the polyphony issues.. Great to see the integration with green/red lights too..❤
Thank you all the details on this. Much appreciated!
You did a great job in your presentation! It was clear and concise and therefore understandable! Thanks
Darrick...thank you for exposing this most unfortunate phenomenon in a very detailed and informative way. Great job! You just saved me from experiencing much frustration and buyer's remorse, my friend! I cannot express in words how much I appreciate you taking the time to get this message out to all of us. I "was" going to buy one of these keyboards! Your message is priceless!
I really try to give people the good, bad and the ugly when doing a review. When Roland, Guitar Center, Anderton's, Sweetwater etc do a video showcasing an instrument it's a "commercial." There is nothing wrong with a commercial but you have to know that's what it is. Tutorials done by the companies are to provide support for their customers and entice others to buy as well. Of course any sponsored video is an advertisement as well. But I try to give informative feedback from the perspective of a person that musician that uses the gear on a regular basis.
#me too! Only 1/8'th of my X6 multisamples? WTH? Was on the verge of making a HUGE mistake selling my X6!!!
Damn dude, I just wish the Yamaha's had a better keybed for piano. The new Montage M8X keybed is so light. I'm sure it is great for everything else, but for classical piano playing it sucks. What are the main piano vst libraries that you're using with your Fantom 8? Also, would you mind sharing your velocity curves?
Not sure a Yamaha M8X is a good keyboard for playing classical 'piano' LOL. At least that certainly isn't its target audience. @@MarianoPerez
Is it because of the polyphony issues?
Well done. Easy to understand and concise! Thank you
This is a great overview of this board. I definitely do feel this is the right board for the very niche use case (marching band, potential indoor winter percussion) a group I work with is looking for. It fits out prety much everything we need it to do.
Thanks man! Straight to the point,
Wow nice review, thanks! Polyphony is indeed a deal breaker.
This was excellent once again.
Man, to find your video was, for me, a wonderful treasure!!! So thoughtful, so profound with information, i was looking into the fantom-07 for my next gear, but the polyphony issue was a point of attention for me.
Just thank you for the great content! You have earned a subscriber and a fan.
Hey i have one question, if you not mind. What are your thoughts about the Kurzweil PC4-7? It's been rising in my sight atm, and i coudn't help comparing it with the fantom-07.
I am looking for a lightweight workstation with 76 or 73 keys to be my main keyboard.
This is a fabulously helpful Fantom overview. Thank you. I have had my fantom for more than a year and have had a terrible time trying to understand and work with the sequencer. I really bought it for the sequencing, which may have been a misunderstanding on my part. Your video is helping me to understand the reasons for my issues. I am a very long-time Roland user, and the different way the entire GUI works is so different from every other Roland keyboard I have ever used. The patches are now tones, which fit into scenes. This was completely new terminology, different than any other terminology for 40 years before.
Thank you for watching!
@@darrickkeels6387 Well, thank YOU for being awesome!
I've had mine for about the same time. I also find it pretty complex to get into! This video was great - A whole bunch of front panel buttons I had no idea of.
@@GaryBeilby I think part of the problem is the manual isn't written in a way that explains very well. And I have watched every Ed video, and he doesn't explain things very well. It's a shame, bc once you learn the keyboard it's freaking fantastic, but the learning curve is straight up.
Excellent video. Thank you
Thank you for watching
Ive had the 07 for 6 months now and love it.
Its so intuitive and a lot of the sounds are great but yes, the polyphony is an issue.
Polyphony fixed !! Latest firmware update on the O series at least 😊😊😊
Isn't that for the big fantom 6-7-8?
is it really? Because that problem is keeping me from buying this instrument.
@@omedome2787me too
I own the 08 for 3 months now, I tried what Darrick did and it did NOT cut out, only after 12 or 13 notes pressed.@@omedome2787
Hi, from France Darrick.
Excellent which makes me think about purchasing this Fantom 06..
I have an RD 2000 and a Modx, so I think I can get around this polyphony problem, but do you know if each track of a sequence can transmit on a different Midi channel, therefore to an external module?.
I now have a lot of doubts!...
Many thanks for what you do.
Patrick
Yes it can🙂
@@darrickkeels6387 Big Thank Darrek for your feedback.
Decided to watch this movie again. 😀 I’m reconsidering going with I was initially going to do when I got an 88 key keyboard. I got a Casio to travel with but rethinking an all in one 73/76 keyboard that is more portable and downsize. I really love weighted keys as I wanted to feel more realistic piano but I also want more control surface. I was patching things together with different devices but it’s frustrating getting setup at times for live streaming and putting things back together and getting it to work. I may just sell my Juno and get this or Modx or something comparable. Non class compliant audio is a caveat for the Roland but really not getting as much use out of my Juno because of the size and hoops I have to jump through to produce the environment I want. Lots to think about.
Thanks Darrick
Great video and playing, particularly your organ work!
I am a Kronos user, but I remember being tempted by the Fantom and especially the Fantom 0 series because some things maybe seemed more “modern.” The more I learn about them, though, it just feels like compromises left and right compared to the Kronos. Yes, the complexity is higher, but it’s almost always possible to achieve what you want on Kronos with amazing polyphony. Hard to believe Korg nailed it so well over a decade ago.
Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate it!
Best review of this on UA-cam. Good work.
Thank you!
This is a great video! Thanks so much for posting. (new sub) I'm considering a Fantom 0 purchase, but having trouble deciding what size keybed. Can I use my existing 88 key digital piano with the Fantom 0 as an alternate keyboard? In other words, can I buy the 06, but use my nice weighted keyboard when I need a larger keyboard. I like the price and portability of the smallest Fantom 0, and already have a decent 88 key weighted keyboard. If I could buy a standalone Fantom surface without a keybed, I would probably do that. I want the functionality, but don't really love the action on the 08. I am leaning toward the 07 at this point. Thoughts? I'm an Ableton Live user and love that integration + I love the workflow of this Roland.
A very suitable and interesting summary. Thank you. It surprises me a little that in other of your videos you say that you prefer the modx synthesizer sounds being the modx filters in my opinion worse, which limits the expressiveness in the Lead sounds etc. All the best
What I prefer in the MODX soundwise is the sampled "real" instruments. For the most part. Saxophones, flutes, acoustic guitars, electric guitars, acoustic pianos, etc in my opinion, sound better on the Yamaha. Now, if we are talking about warm "Juno style" pads, leads, supersaws, etc, I think Roland is going to be extremely hard to beat. The quality of their filters is outstanding. But those same filters often eat into your polyphony. So, when I am playing modern songs from which the producers used Omnisphere to record the parts, the limited polyphony on the Fantom shows up. If I am playing 80's covers which consist of a lot of 3 or 4 note chords with basic synth parts, I get no polyphony issues. But trying to play a "hot" song that came out in 2019. The Fantom often struggles. But overall, they both sound very good.
@@darrickkeels6387 I hear this a lot, that Yamaha does the real instruments the best, while the Roland does filtered "synth" sounds the best; However I've yet to hear a single "synth" sound on the Roland that I can't emulate as good or better on the Yamaha. One of the secret weapons on the MODX+ for warm "Juno style" pads, etc. is layering a 'sample' based sound ('AWM2') with an 'FM-X' based sound, then adding the Symphonic effect to the FM pad which adds 6 layers & widens the stereo on that sound, and keep the sample Part slightly more narrow. It doesn't hurt to also pan the sample sound more left or right as well (just as one example)...
And the polyphony on the MODX+ is the same as on the Montage (128+128=256 "stereo" notes). Additionally, you can layer 64 sampled sounds (elements/partials) in just the first 8 Parts/voices alone (same as the Fantom is capable of doing if using all 16 Tones/voices), plus an additional 64 sampled elements in the other 8 voices that can be sequenced, for a total of 128 sampled sounds/layers (elements/partials).
Another secret weapon on the MODX+ is it's LFO speed using the new Extended LFO feature, which blows past any other Synth's LFO speed, squelching past the speed of light into the audio range ua-cam.com/video/2LlnWu_8bps/v-deo.html (the sound Dom programmed & plays is a preset on the MODX+ named "The Polysynth MW"). Check out this blend of sample based + DX7 FM based sounds on the Montage (the MODX+ plays this the same as well)
ht tps / /soundcloud com / dclowe / montage-justin-bieber-intentions
Great review Darricky thanks. Been using the 07 for more than a year and a I love it, but polyphony is really an issue.
Totally agree
Great video! Do you know if it is possible to map the rightmost organ drawbar to one of the knobs , sliders or a expression pedal? That is the only thing keeping me from buying this keyboard.
I like the set up of the Roland 0 workstation, how do you think the sounds in the Nord stage 4 which isn’t a workstation compare.
The samples that go on the Roland FA06 pads are stored on an SD Card...is the Fantom 06/07 the same in that reguard?
I personally haven't found the polyphony issue that limiting, especially since you can set where in the sound sequence the part is cut if polyphony runs out(zone voice reserve to limit or not).. also you can limit unison.. unison full is 8 voice layers max per Tone i believe, and tones only have 4 partials, the others are used by added effects to the tone, [TIPS- if using amplitude envelope, having decay, or realease Off/On, either or still same loss, it will continue to use more voices, so u may be using voices that you have no use for. U can also change/blend tones in Wave Number in OSC prm menu (L/R Wave Number channels each use up a voice.]
Also, many tones have partials (each partial uses 1 voice) that can be turned off and make little to no difference in the tone, such as a very quick light click noise or something similar. However, SuperNATURAL acoustic instruments engine u can't turn partials off on fantom-0, fantom u can i believe.
I have another video about the "Big" Fantom: ua-cam.com/video/M74BhNKkXnE/v-deo.html
In this video, I go over some workarounds that can be used if a person is running into an issue. Many people never run into a polyphony issue, mainly due to playing style. When I am playing 80's covers with my band, I never run into an issue. Lots of Pop, 60's to 80's Rock, and I never have an issue. Furthermore, my band has two keyboard players and a horn section. So many times, my job in the band is very specific and doesn't require layers, especially because I always have two keyboards. But when I play modern Gospel and Contemporary Christian music, I have issues. Most of the music I play was written less than 10 years ago in those genres. People are using Omnisphere, Keyscapes, Native Instruments, Spitfire Audio, and other VSTs on the original albums. My job is to replicate that sound on a weekly basis. The Fantoms really struggle. I am aware of workarounds as my livelihood depends on my musicianship. My point is, however, such painstaking workarounds simply aren't necessary on the competition. As demonstrated here when setting up 6 solo string instruments. The Montage had no problems. The Fantom-0 struggled. I could have used the older string sounds that were found in the XV3080 sound module from 23 years ago, but those old samples are clearly inferior to the new SN Acoustic sounds. Also I picked the newer string samples in the Montage, not ones from the Motif series. So it was certainly an apples to apples comparison. There is no access to partials with SN sounds in the Fantom or Fantom-0. I love the Fantoms and the big Fantom is my main keyboard. But it falls behind its competition in the polyphony architecture department.
I just did a polyphony test on mine. With 4 zones active (3 x SN, 1 x Zcore) I was able to hold a sustained note endlessly while I played other notes over it. I'm sure I've noticed cut outs before, but I couldn't replicate it in that manner.
The only disappointment in the unit for me is that the pads have no dynamics. I totally didn't expect that. Fortunately I have a little Akai 25 key with 8 performance pads, USB connected to the Fantom 0, and its default behaviour is to have those pads play zone 10 - And the default instrument in zone 10 is usually a standard drum kit. Perfect!
Thanks for this video. Presumably if you record (say) the violins to a pattern, then add a viola pattern, bass etc, the polyphony problem is worked around? I'm about to buy the 08, so just doing a last bit of research (I have played on in the shop, really liked it)
No, that would not resolve the issue, as you would still hit the power limit. However, you could use the sampler and save recordings to the pads. Or simply select strings from the Zencore sound set. You will get much better performance. But to my ears most of those strings sound quite dated. In fact they are because many of them were on the JV1010 that came out in the 90's. But if a person is in a coverband covering older songs, then the older sounds is often what you need. It's an awesome keyboard. And because it is so versatile, there are typically workarounds for any limitations you run into.
@@darrickkeels6387 thank you for confirming. It will certainly be a step up from my Juno Gi 😊
I've had my Fantom 07 for about a year now and I have to agree with everything I've seen you say so far. It's been a good sounding, easy to use, yet deep instrument. Very capable. I wish it had more room for user multisamples but I did dump Supernatural Piano #2, which freed up space for about 5 of the SRX based sample expansions, which lessened the need for extra instrument samples.
I tried your exact setup with the Fantom 08 and I did not run into the problem as quick as you did.
6 tones, SN, violins, celli, violas, bass.
They must have done something about it? (My Fantom 08 is only 3 months old now)
I don't even layer, and run into polyphony issues in the flagship, especially with the n/zyme model expansion. Some people say that I am doing too much, and that my expectations of a workstation is too high, but running into these issues on very basic patches is a factor. I couldn't imagine running into these problems in a live setting, but after talking to a few people, realize that it is a common occurrence. People are upset, and rightfully so. With the polyphony issues, it makes producing within the Fantom a chore.
I only have one keyboard...and it is a problem. Thank God it doesn't leave the studio, but with that, functions more as a MIDI controller than anything else. Kind of bogus for the price tag. I was wondering if these polyphony issues trickled down to the 0 Series, so thank you for answering that.
I really appreciate all of your content on the subject. Great work!
Yeah, the polyphony limitations of this keyboard (and the Fantom) can be a real issue. And I have found the overall response of the Roland community to be dismissive. I've heard the kind of music you produce and the Fantom(s) just aren't up to the task. Contrary to popular belief, it's not a few niche people running into the issue. And yes, I agree with you, buying it as to use as only a MIDI controller is not cost effective. Thanks for watching. Always appreciate you stopping by the channel
With said limitations, I can't reasonably even see the point of owning one. Sure, to some it's pocket change and having a controller/hub seems to be the name of the game. But still. Standards are standards. It's an expense. That cannot adequately do better than a tablet in a key area. Thats insane. I don't recall having issues with Kronos. I've seen Darrick's comparison with other devices. And as mentioned elsewhere never got it to choke like this on the FA. So what gives. 4 grand for something that struggles with a Piano? Might as well just combo the Yamaha CP with a Modx and avoid it all together.
Very objective and valuable information. We have a range of great options and price points, with pros and cons of each. Technology and power available these days isn't limiting as it used to be. Which is why it's frustrating if we dont have more memory, polyphony, multiple ways to achieve the same result, use the hardware the way that works for us, etc. But that is also marketing. These are capable for the price, but I would prefer to spend a little more for some key improvements.
Hey Darrick. I watched a good a few of your videos recently. I’m a singer/producer. I’m looking for a board to use at home to integrate with daw to record and for a small amount church services. Compared to the Modx8 in all areas which board would you recommend Fantom 08 or Modx8 I’m torn and stressed lol 😂. Thanks for you help!
I am not sure which DAW you are using or if you have other gear that you use as well. But in general, if you are only using one keyboard, playing it live, and plan to layer sounds, I'd recommend the MODX over the Fantom-0. The polyphony can be a real issue. Of course this is depending on your sound choices and playing style. If you use a lot of VSTs, use Ableton Live in the studio and live, and have quite a bit of gear that you want to control from one source, then I would recommend the Fantom-0.
Hello, I was told that those several sliders and knobs do NOT are not totally assigned to control parameters on sounds, and that several of them only use 2 or 3 sliders to control reverb and delay, all other sliders and knobs do nothing unless you assign something to them, is that true ?
Hello bro! Currently watching this video, greetings from middle Europe :) Right now I am looking for a new keyboard to our church. Our style is like classic worship ( Hillsong and so on .. ) I was thinking about Nautilus but the price is much higher then Fantom 08. In my "active" musical life I had Nord Stage so I know exactly what it means to have the "best weapon" for live playing. Now its little bit different, after years I have "new" players in church, not so skilled yet and therefore I am looking for keyboard which will help the group ( mostly I am talking about some motion pads in chorus which wil help with some patterns ( loops ) and so on... I saw it in Nautilus videos therefore I was thinking about buy it. Now I see that there is something cheaper on the market, but I am not sure if it is usable for me fot this purpose.
Nice video. One question, I have Korg PA5X. Do you think the "FANTOM 06" OR the "FANTOM 6" will most need it with Korg? I mean using both, Does the FANTOM 6 going to make a huge difference over using the FANTOM 06?
It really kind of depends on what you are looking for honestly. I made a video in which I covered almost every difference between the Fantom and Fantom-0. This should make it easier for you to decide.
ua-cam.com/video/tJLCEg3bsWE/v-deo.html
Thank you for making this video.❤❤
Actually I am looking for a new workstation,
Can you suggest me between Modx6+ and Fantom 06
Which one should I get?
It really depends on what you want your keyboard to do.
Upon receiving the Fantom 08, I played the first patch 'Homecoming' and noticed, immediately, notes cutting out. I think videos like this are important to try and clarify what type of musician this board is best suited to. Is the future a controller and laptop for everyone? As in, manufacturers may move away from making self-contained stage keyboards. Thanks for the video.
I have taken a LOT of criticism for bringing up the polyphony architecture of the Fantom Series
That's sad because if consumers don't know these like these there can be a lot of buyer's remorse. I'm really on the fence as I was looking for a main keyboard and now I don't know what I can get that's very close to this and yet handles polyphony well.
Thanks greatinfo.
You would never think it would be so weak
I totally agree with the ease of use. I have a Fantom 0 and a MODX. The Fantom 0 is much easier to use and options for live playing. Thank you for the video
Forgive the question from someone completely new to workstations but can the Fantom 0 store and playback uploaded audio tracks? I’m thinking for band practice when we don’t have all instruments present. A related question, does it have a selection of drum / rhythm patterns for playing say rock or blues in a jamming session with others when there is no drummer? If not, can you please recommend the right workstation(s) to look at?
Thanks
Yes..the pads can be loaded with any sample one hit or full backing tracks as you wish.
Darrick, I know there are some differences with the big Fantom in material, space to save extensions, aftertouch, etc. But is there any difference in the quality of sound compared to the flagship? Roland did the same as Yamaha did with Modx and Montage? Thanks
No there isn't.
@@darrickkeels6387 Awesome Darrick, Thank you
Hi, I have a question regarding circumventing the polyphony problems. A lot of my songs feature massive string/brass/woodwind sections with 30+ different tones, so is it possible to compose that in my DAW, export it as a WAV file, and just trigger it from the sample pads while I play piano or synth lead over top of it?
Yup that is absolutely doable on the Fantom-0.
@@darrickkeels6387 Thanks! I was deciding between the Fantom 08 or the Korg Nautilus but I like the UI and controls of the Fantom a lot more.
I tried to add decay on 2nd layer sound on the flag-ship Fantom 7!.. I was not able.. I will wait for the Montage., I had to return the Roland 7.
I’m about 6 days into my 30-day purchase window.
The real-time recording (and quantizing 🙏) and everything about the patterns/sequencing has been amazing for composition.
I recognize my favorite parts of it are core to any DAW.
But there’s something so un-alienating about having it in a self-contained format
What might be a comparable synth(s) to consider as an alternative, in terms of degree of control, with a solid bank of sounds to work with?
(Price point isn’t a huge issue, relative to how long I would aim to hold onto it. Fantom replaced a Juno-G I bought in 2007)
(The polyphony issues are also definitely hitting as significant cause for concern)
Are you running into any notes dropping out?
I would have to say the Yamaha Montage is worth looking in to.
Is there oscillator cross modulation on any of the sound engines - the capability to modulate an oscillator by another oscillator? I was looking at the flagship model of the fantom because of its wavetable engine, but perhaps I could get the 0 model if it has other synth features that could make up for its exclusion of the wavetable engine.
I don't believe you can. If it had FM synthesis that would be a different story.
I believe the Zencore engine has pulse width modulation and oscillator sync.
Does polyphony cut out while recording into a seq? For examples 9 tracks of audio where 9 tracks use about 12 notes per ?
Hi,
I have a question. This machine is a €1300 one and a 2022 release. So, are the pianos responding to that? Three questions: Damper and key noises? String resonance? Long unlooped natural decay?
Roland calls the pianos Supernatural engine. Is it so or just marketing?
Can someone who owns this beast make the tests and tell me? Sometimes it is not published but may be there.
Many thanks
Great review by the way.
Thanks the update, I bought this when it came out but lost interest because the sampling capabilities felt limited and the real time synth sound building felt too menu divvy. I'll have to sit down with it again and give it another shot.
Yup. Give it another shot.
I just ordered one, and I’ll have it in a day or so. I keep seeing complaints about polyphony in the 0 series. How serious is this problem? Where does it really show this weakness.., is it single tone play, or when creating large complex layers?
It really depends on your playing style and sound choices. It really shows weakness in the SuperNatural sounds. Don't let this video scare you 😂. You may be absolutely fine.
@@darrickkeels6387 Thx.., it just arrived today. It honestly sounds just like my old Integra 7. Do you know how many of the EZX expansions the keyboard can have loaded at one time? I do miss my Integra actually having all 12 SRX preinstalled.
Than you
Both ZenCore and Yamaha use up to 8 oscillators to create a sound (patch) strange there is a difference. SN voices only use 4 oscillators. There is a mystery within the overall DSP of all devices as to the limits of these in polyphony. The question is does each patch use one note of polyphony for each single keyboard key press...or... does each oscillator of each patch use one note of polyphony for each single keyboard key press? I think ZenCore and SN are one note of polyphony for each oscillator; with ZenCore capable of stereo oscillators and 8 per patch and SN only a maximum of 4 mono oscillators. (the 4 mono oscillators can be panned in the stereo field).
Great video again bro! I for one do NOT like the sound of the Fantom. Love the functionality of it, but I cannot connect with it like I do with my other workstation keyboards.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I agree, if you do not like the sounds it's definitely not worth buying.
Within the past few weeks I had to do some soul searching. I have a Fantom and have downloaded a lot of the sound packs out of Roland Cloud. My mind is obsessed with bigger and better, but my Fantom is more than sufficient for what I do. Sure, could I level up? Of course I could. At what cost, though? My spending was getting out of control.
Keep using what works for you.
How does this compare with the Roland FA series? If you can get the Fantom 0 used at the same price as the same size FA, is the Fantom 0 a no brainer?
Well it really depends on what features you are after. Believe it or not there are somethings an FA does better than a Fantom, like...linear sequencing. Or more editable parameters on the Supernatual Acoustic Pianos
For the home studio workstation would you the M8 or the Fantom?
Me personally, the Fantom.
Thank you bro.... 👍 God bless you Darrick. 🕊️🌈😉
Greatly appreciate your input. Anyone that gets upset with facts needs to take a look in the mirror & really question what they're really angry about. It's a great machine, however the polyphony is an issue.
Layering is different for me. Track one is a piano that runs the full length of the keyboard. Track two is a pad sound not layered the the full length. Pad and strings starts at C3 ends one octave before the last octave. This hack will save you some polyphony
I really appreciate this review. Im very disappointed by the polyphony though. I have two questions. As a live musician what is the best way for dealing with polyphony on this board? And what would you say is the best keyboard comparable to this one?
Thank you for watching! I appreciate it. If you noticed I didn't have any polyphony issues when I just used one sound. Next, use as many Zencore sounds as you can. The SuperNatural instruments really eat up power, and hence, they use extra polyphony. If I used Zencore violins, violas, cello, and contrabass, I would have gotten a lot further polyphony wise. However, those particular Zencore sounds are old, like 30 years old and they sound like it. In other words they sound extremely artificial by today's standards. The Zencore acoustic pianos are okay but there are only a few "new ones."The rest are old. They were on my Roland XV3080 twenty-three years ago. They work well for playing 80's covers and replicating the sound of the 90's though. Whenever possible for synth stuff use the TVF filter type. The other filters like MG, JP, etc also eat up more polyphony because of the complexity of the filters. If you are only playing a pad by itself you shouldn't have a problem, but if you are layering sounds try using the TVF filter to ensure you don't have any issues. Also when layering check out the partials being used. Often times you can turn off a partial or two in a sound and not really notice a sound difference. This can literally double or triple the amount of available voices. Unfortunately the Supernatual sounds do not allow you access to partials. But ultimately you want to practice with your sounds at home by playing the songs you will play live. Oftentimes you will not run into a problem. There are a lot of users that say they never have a problem. So your mileage may vary. Some other options are the MODX+ by Yamaha or a Krog Nautilus. The polyphony architecture on those keyboards are far superior to the Fantoms. But ultimately I do not recommend this keyboard for people who want to use it alone AND want to layer tons of sounds. If you absolutely love a Fantom more than anything else, I highly recommend pairing it with a laptop. If you become proficient with something like Mainstage the Fantom becomes an absolute monster.
@@darrickkeels6387 Thanks for such a detailed reply. I'm trying to get I to music production. Literally just about to start learning and testing, so my knowledge is pretty low at this stage. This is part of the of the reason I was drawn to the Fantom 08, but I also need a board for live performance that can deal with easily layering 5-8 sounds. It just sounds like Roland didn't build the Fantom 08 to really perform the way they are advertising it to be able to. I'm a church musician firstly so I need to be able to mix sounds. I'm going to have to look at the MODX+'s pattern/song arranging capabilities and really see how I can work with it. I just wish Roland had put more effort into developing a smart way of managing their polyphony. In fact I don't understand why any board at this point has this issue.
@@darrickkeels6387 In comparison to your suggestions and the Fantom 08 what are your thoughts on Kurzweil K2700 for live performance and for recording?
@@ramoneforbes2392 The Kurzweil K2700 is going to do a much better job in the polyphony department. If you are recording on the keyboard itself and not using a DAW, then the K2700 also wins in that department. Unless you are looking for an Ableton Live style workflow that offers flexibility to repeat a chorus or verse as many times as you want. The K2700 is a traditional linear sequencer. Press play and it goes like an old fashioned tape recorder. You cannot repeat sections or skip to an ending early etc.
@@darrickkeels6387 Sigh. This is such a nerve-racking decision for me. It's a shame that due to poor polyphony architecture I'm being pulled away my true first choice. The Fantom 08 sequencing truly had me enchanted in terms of what I could see doing to enhance adding more backing tracks that I can easily line up or switch back and forth to like verses. I don't think the MODX+ has that either. And you just confirmed Kurzweil doesn't either. I'm going to have to deep dive and see how best I can use one of them until I can afford a second board.
Darrick, really enjoyed this video and man your playing on the organ is top tier!
The polyphony talk towards the end was eye opening, I never thought it was that much of a glaring problem, considering that the FA and the Fantom mostly the same samples and thus algorithms.
In hindsight, I think the engineers at Roland knew that this was underpowered, and maybe made the tight integration with Ableton Live (the industry standard for running stuff live) and Logic (because most musicians use Mac and so will probably use Logic). A MacBook and a Roland Fantom is a deadly combination, but the number of musicians comfortable running laptops on stage is only growing. Kudos to Yamaha's engineering team, that MODX handle the polyphony so well and yet, it's supposed to have less polyphony than the bigger brother Montage.
I still bemoan the fact that the Roland is not class compliant, so I won't be able to connect my phone to the board and use the sounds on it. I prefer it this way compared to using a laptop because it's easier to setup and breakdown, and for safety, as not so long ago there was a robbery and they took the Roland FA-07 I'd been using for just over a year.
Again, great video Darrick! 😄
Indeed, the Fantom-0 (or Fantom) paired with a laptop is a deadly combo. I think Roland is putting their resources into integration. I love my Nord Stage 3 but it doesn't have a built in audio interface, balanced outputs, or audio inputs to run other gear through it. But having a mobile studio that you can take with you for live performance is the modern way of doing things. "Live Recordings" have hours and hours of preproduction work that go into them. Bands are playing to click tracks and want to hire keyboard players that can basically run a studio in a live session. Roland has jumped on the "cloud" game faster than anyone else. They have the infrastructure in place to sustain the company in the future. But I still believe the power to have good polyphony is still very important. The hardware keyboard has to be proficient in "standalone" mode otherwise, younger people will not be able to justify the price tag. Might as well buy a MIDI controller for less than half the price. But, yeah...there is a reason why my Roland Fantom is my main keyboard. Because once paired with a laptop (or other gear) polyphony is no longer an issue.
Wow, thank you so much for this comment.. did not know, that Roland is not class compliant (iOS connectivity).. this is show killer for me..
Great review from someone who can actually play the thang as well
Don't know how you enjoy playing the SN piano or just about any piano in this market of thousands of digital pianos. I bought the FantomO6 as a second tier to my RD-2000, the two work well together and cost less than a Fantom8. The V-Piano is a much better piano than the SN pianos...MUCH better. (I am a pro solo pianist using whatever acoustic piano is on stage) At home though I use digital pianos with headphones for the love of my apartment neighbors :) . Note: My favorite digital piano to date after 55 years on keys and 30 years with 10 different digital pianos is the Yamaha DGX-670, inexpensive and the finest headphone used digital piano there is...and cheap too!
I miss my Fantom G still waiting on the perfect time to buy the flagship Fantom!!!
update I just finally brought the flagship fantom yesterday!!!! I brought it off FB!!!! I caught a still I couldn't pass up!!! I told my wife I will never see the Fantom with that price again life!!!!
I'm not sure, but doesn't voice-reserve help with voice stealing?
So if you only could have one keyboard which one would it be?
The Roland Fantom.
This synth is the most "user friendly" of all in this category.
Yamaha had some more realistic sounds, yes, but its not that easy-to-use and I think this is the most important for live performances.
When you choose among different synths you need to know what you are about to sacrifice, not all synths are for everything.
Thats why we meed more videos like this.
Thanks mate!!!
When you midi Ed the montage where each on the channels controlled separately
Yes. I used MIDI Channels 1-6.
would you recommend a nord electo 6d over this?
completely different keyboards....Nothing beets the feel of the keybed of the Nords and the organs are way better. The Fantom has a billion sounds ...I have a MODX for that. I use the Nord for mostly organ & Pianos. Electro 5d bottom Modx top
The Fantom O as a great value, as is the nautilus and MODx. Years back these option never existed.
I have the same problem with my Jupiter 80. It's funny because on my old Juno Stage, XP 80 i don't have polyphony problems
Polyphony problems on the Jupiter 80 ??? That joint has 256 polyphonic voices !
If only we get the Fantom power at the weight of Fantom 0
Dynamic workflow
MOXF - TERRIBLE SUICIDE
MODX - OK
ROLAND - GREAT!
One more thing it doesn’t have a User Arpeggio to customize your own pattern.
👍🏾
I like your "Thrive" comment...selling my Nautilus...Its great for studio but im a live gig guy...thing weighs a ton
Hi! For me if the Seq doesn't work like a KORG Krome or Kronos it's not for me.
Nope it doesn't. It's a pattern sequencer only. You would need to go with a Nautilus.
The only problem with this machine is its memory for sampling/multisampling and it's arp ...256 mb in 2023 common Roland....the same style of arp can only be used for all zone in a scene which is bad.....I don't want one type of arp applied to all zones and this issue is also in its big brother Fantom....they should have given at least 3 types of arps styles to be used simultaneously....😊😊
The FIRST PATCH has polyphony issues! This is supposed to be my aux board. Got it to church and noticed immediately!! Not a good look. They really need to upgrade the polyphony.
Yes, for many church musicians the polyphony will be an issue.
Edit: The BEST thing about this Video is everything. I thought I have to go to the store and take 2 days to decide if it will be the fantom or the Nautilus. Nope. Fantom.
I"m having that dilemma now and I have to decide, are you happy with your decision?
The Roland Integra-7 sound module from 2012 or 2013 has similar polyphony issues. But it’s a decade old (and still being sold new). You would think the newer Fantom and Fantom-0 would be better than a decade old device. They have some newer sounds (and some seemingly same ones) but same polyphony problems. Roland needs to do better.
It’s not to say I dislike the Integra-7. But I understand the short comings in this older hardware more that the current stuff.
Yup, Roland needs to do better.
Cool video. I have the Fantom O6 and MODX 6/7+. I’ve read the MODX6 for 3 years, but I’ve accomplished so much more in the 9 months I’ve had my Fantom06. It’s a lot more intuitive IME. If I had to chose. It would be the MODX as the pianos and brass are much better, but the Fantom is the one I reach for when I need to create a new sound. Like you it’s my tip keyboard, mainly synths and of course Organ. Having the sub outs is amazing as I can feed the organ in to a vent. I did read the sample memory is 2GB. Not sure that’s correct but might be worth looking in to if samples are a priority.
The polyphony is not voices, it’s partials (or elements in Montage). Did you make sure both instruments are using the same amount of elements to even the field?
Sample memory on the pads and general storage is 2GB. But sample memory for multisamples and expansion packs is a shared 256mb. A partial and an element are the same. One partial is equal to one voice, and one element is equal to one voice. When I choose sounds, I don't pick "voices," I pick instruments. I choose a violin, bass, sax, piano, guitar, etc. If Yamaha can make a quality violin emulation using two voices per note but Roland needs to use 6 or 7 (keep in mind Roland's filters use up polyphony) then the Roland polyphony architecture is poor. It's not the number of voices available that's ultimately important, it's how those voices are utilized. If a keyboard was only 64-voice polyphony but no sounds ever needed more than one voice per note, it would out perform a keyboard that was 128-voice polyphony that needed 4 voices per note to produce the same sounds.
What about the Roland FA ? Same. problem ? I don't think so.... And you ?
No. My Roland FA does not have the same issues.
Great option if you're looking for that midrange board same with Nautilus and MODX+. Thanks to your comparison I ended up getting the big Fantom, a near perfect used model about 1500 off regular price because I prefer the design, wanted V-Piano and N/ZYME and felt like this 0 series would be too limiting for me. I think I prefer Kronos for live, but it definitely does pretty much the same thing, just in a slightly different way, but with a much more usable screen and control params.
Sounds like you got a really good deal!!!
@@darrickkeels6387 In general terms I agree with you. You are one of the few content creators who respond broadly and in detail, reading your answers is usually as useful as seeing your videos, it is one of the reasons why I am subscribed
@@ArmandoFerrerMusic Thank you! I appreciate that!
Lol. They don't struggle at all compared to Fantom. I use an FA08 and I can't seem to make it choke on Polyphony quite the way Darrick is here either. So not entirely sure why it's so poorly managed. A good advert for not 'upgrading' if ever I saw one.
It was a great steal, cleaned and updated to the latest OS too. It's probably the only other workstation I'd switch the Kronos for live, but I definitely prefer It's immediacy when programming.
You can't compare a Fantom-0 with a flagship Yamaha Montage that cost almost twice. You should do that same test on the ModX that is the actual yamaha competition for the Roland Fantom-0. That said, I got your point that it make no sense to include SuperNATURAL sounds that can't be layered with more than 1 other sound before hitting polyphony issues in a 2K product.
The Yamaha Montage and the MODX have the same exact polyphony in the AWM-2 sound engine and the same exact sounds. That's what was used in the demonstration. So no matter which Yamaha I use the results will be exactly the same. Also, if I pull up the same exact sounds in the "Big" Fantom as I did the Fantom-0, the results would be exactly the same. There is no difference in the polyphony of the two keyboards.
@@darrickkeels6387 OMG. Thats is just unbelievable !!! I love the Fantom-0 but this is really a deal-breaker (not for me; I am just an amateur musician, but for many others indeed) and really a shame for the flagship Fantom!!
What is this is comparison with though? Nord stage 4 = piano section 120 voice polyphony, korg kronos=180 voice polyphony, roland fantom 0x=256 voice polyphony. Are you sure you don’t just mean the pianos are badly sourced sampled? Cause Roland piano sounds are BAD period! That is not what you buy a fantom for. Fantom 678 has effectively 16 parts x 2 where as in order to stop cut out on fantom0 you would have to use scene remain option but then you are limited to 8 parts only. I just bought a nord stage 4 and fantom06 and why not use keyscape anyway if you are polyphony monster. Which is what i use when playing classical piano. I bought a roland fantom 0 for these reasons only: juno106 model expansion $149 extra, tr 808, tr909 drumkit sound heritage, 80s , 90s vibe. Zencore is sell out software but still useful.
The Nord piano engine is 120-voice polyphony BUT one note on a Nord=1 voice. So, it performs better. The Kronos is not 180 voices. The SGX2 piano sound engine is 100 dual stereo voices, 400 mono voices. But the Kronos dynamically allocates voices between sound engines. In "Combi" mode if you max out the 140 voices of the HD-1 sound engine but aren't using voices from the PolySix (180-voices) sound engine, it will "steal" power from the PolySix engine and apply it where you need it, so that you will not get any note dropouts. Let's keep in mind the Kronos launched in 2011 but the Korg Oasys was dynamically allocating voices in 2005. This is why I talk about "Polyphony Architecture" not just polyphony. HOW polyphony is utilized is often more important than a number on a spec sheet. And no, I don't just mean the pianos are poorly sourced. In this video I layered 6 SuperNatural solo strings and started hearing voices cutting out after playing 3 notes. I got all the way up the keyboard holding the sustain with no notes dropping out when I played six solo string instruments on the Montage. I think stating a person shouldn't buy a Fantom for its piano sounds is silly. Roland describes the Fantom as a workstation. A workstation is supposed to have great sounds across many sound categories. I'd argue the most important sound for most keyboard players is a piano. Why not use Keyscapes? Because I spent over $2000 on a workstation. I should not need Keyscapes. Maybe you purchased a Fantom-0 for the Juno-106, drum kits and an 80's/90's vibe (all areas the Fantom really shines) but that is not the use case for others. You have the luxury of having a Nord and using the Fantom-0 as an auxiliary keyboard. You have Keyscapes and probably a fairly powerful laptop to run it on. Others don't have the luxury of owning so much gear. "Just spend another $400 for Keyscapes on top of your workstation purchase to make it all work" is not an appropriate response in my opinion. I recognize that for many watching my channel, a workstation is a considerable investment, and knowing its limitations is important BEFORE making such a purchase. Roland will not talk about its limitations and neither will any of the retailers trying to sell you the keyboard. And neither will most content creators that have been paid by Roland to make a commercial for them.
@@darrickkeels6387 i like your honesty, kronos and montage are clearly higher price bracket. Does your strings test do the same on a fantom though and not a fantom 0? Oh wait i just saw your other video. Fair grounds for concern because fantom is much more expensive than an 0 series. I owned a kronos and it was great but not intuitive at all, compared to Roland’s general workflow.
Whats the totllly BEST in this Video?
How your face mirrors every single Chord Progression you play.
I like you allready!!
😄
Recently got a Roland Fantom-06 at church. Very disappointed. While it's a very capable synth, the polyphony issues is unbelievable and I've had it become unresponsive on more than one occasion. The pianos don't really cut it even though everybody else's sounds good.
High grea summary. I think that my oveall impression of this board is that you buy it for it's panel and DAW integration, not for its internal sounds. The pianos are just not great and the other sounds are all usble, but not up to the level of a Montage/MODX. On stage that doesn't matter so much. And, in the studio, it also doesn't matter much, since you can just use VSTs to get better pianos, strings, etc. But, if you're looking for the best possible on-board sounds, than you may be disapponted.
The Fantom is my bottom board, because I use other sounds much of the time, so the polyphony issues don't bother me so much (and my big Fantom has the V-Pianos). I would definitely recommend this instrment because of the panel, DAW integration, action and workflow. But it has serious issues in memory and the internal sounds, so you need to buy it with an awareness of its flaws.
Bruh is better than entire modx series
For a creative composer presets on synths that cannot be erased is just a horrible stumbling block to creativity. Any sound created and designed by me needs to be stored right up front with easy access and not sitting in the middle of thousands of presets. IF you want to use your Fantom as it comes with all the presets that's fine, but for sound designers we need the ability to go into the utility of this synth and erase all the presets giving me a complete blank space for storage of all my own patches in the categories. I bought the FamtomO mainly for the group launch feature through the 4x4 pads and to sound design on the ZenCore architecture. I record Vangelis style where I play the complete orchestration live to a multi-track audio recorder in one take. The group launch gives me the possibility of a huge backing track up to 64 measures long to solo with, all in MIDI and all without a computer. I don't use computers for making music, 100% hardware person.
Great playing! To be honest I think the Fantom comes across slightly too positively in your review. One has to keep in mind this is Roland's top-of-the-line device and as such it has to deliver. And it doesn't and Roland is being typical Roland with NOT delivering software improvents on a regular basis.
- The sampler is VERY basic and laughable if you consider it's 2023. No cross looping. No time-stretching. Painfully slow reading and writing samples. A very cumbersome workflow.
- The Key Switch Groups, one of the most important feature for live players, is poorly executed. So many features missing which could have been easily implemented.
- The aftertouch on both the 61/76 and 88 keyboards is unusable. The keyboard on the Fantom is so loud due to the chassis construction
- Pianos are weak, easpecially on the 0-series with no V-Piano. But even the V-Piano is missing essential features of the Roland digital pianos. It's just not good
- Sample quality itself is sub-par for the time. It's old samples recycled. Orchestral samples are poor, electric and acousitc pianos are poor. They did not include one new samples, it's still "plain old Roland sound". Don't fall for "SuperNatural". Even those old samples have been downsized from the Integra with many (mostly all) parameters being non available on the Fantom.
- The polyphony algorythm is ppor, just as you noted. Take a 20 year old Kurzweil and it will deliver much more WITHOUT any manual adjustments.
- It's a very good synth
- It's a nice master keyboard
- The tonewheel organ is surprisingly nice
All in all it's just way too little for the price point. And this accounts for the cheaper 0-series as well. The instrument just doesn't make sense, there are better alternatives for both studio and live on the market. Roland doesn't put any love or dedication into this product which is a shame, because the hardware is great. No updates on the 6/7/8 for more than one year speaks louder than any words. I won't support Roland in the future any more with this business model, that was an expensive mistake.
Not meant as a criticism to your video, I just think we need more honest reviews to stop manufacturers like Roland selling old stuff for a lot of money and delivering an unfinished product even four years after its launch.
Thank you for watching the video and sharing your thoughts on the Roland Fantom and Fantom-0. It's always nice to see you come by my channel Zzzudio. I just wanted to respond to some of your points.
-As far as regular software improvements they have virtually outpaced Korg and Yamaha with improvements to their software. The Nautilus is a scaled down Kronos. It launched in early 2021 but is essentially the same exact feature set at the Kronos which launched in 2011. The Montage has received quite a few updates since its launch since 2016 but their last substantial update (3.50) was launched in July of 2020. Almost three years and no update. No keyboard manufacture in regularly updating their hardware every year or multiple times per year forever.
-The sampler (and sequencer) are both very basic as you state. But the reality is that most professionals have moved away from sampling and sequencing on their hardware. A younger generation (not me, I am old LOL!) is not overly concerned about these features on their hardware. It cannot compete with a DAW in any way. Roland cannot spend a bunch of time and resources dedicated to features most professionals will not use anyway.
-Aftertouch is indeed unusable on the Fantom. But the 0 has no aftertouch, hence I did not bring it up in this video.
-"The pianos are weak." They may be weak to you and I (to me certainly) but other people really love them. I try to stay away, for the most part, from criticizing sounds because it's very subjective. I love Nord's pianos the best but other people hate them and prefer the Roland.
-Yes a lot of the sounds are recycled for sure. All of the sounds from my Roland XV3080 (23 years ago) are in the new Fantoms. But the same thing can be said for the Nautilus which has all of the sounds from the Kronos 2011, many of the Korg Oasys sounds from 2005 and a ton of the Triton sounds from 1991. The Yamaha Montage is mostly sounds from the Motif series. Yes, there are some new samples but a lot of them are from the late 90's to early 2000's.
I think overall people are expecting the Fantom to be something that it isn't. But that's not the people's fault, it's Roland's. They decided to keep the name Fantom and go around calling it a workstation. But in function, it is really more of a synthesizer. It offers a fast workflow and communicates well with other gear. As people start producing more in the studio and then bringing their studios to live performances the idea of what a keyboard "should have" will have to change. I own the Korg Kronos and love it. But in all honesty it has been many years since I used the sequencer and sampler. With Ableton Live readily available it makes no sense to sample on the Kronos. And if I want a tactile sampling experience the Akai MPC's or Native Instrument offerings are far more intuitive and powerful than any hardware keyboard ever made. I know you said there are "better" options for both live and studio applications, but that is also very subjective. What isn't subjective is that currently no other keyboard has the tight DAW integration the Fantoms have. The other "budget" keyboards (Nautilus, MODX) do not have the realtime controls the Fantom has. All of the keyboards have their strength and weaknesses. The all have old sounds. The MODX has no sample at all. The Nautilus' sampler is powerful but no where near as intuitive as offerings from Akai. The MODX sequencer is far more anemic than Roland's. The Nautilus has a great one but it isn't really catered for live performance.
I could go on. The bottom line is that I feel the Fantom-0 is a beast when paired with other gear. It's not the most powerful "standalone" machine out there but I think the days of "standalone" are coming to an end. The "workstation" market is aging. If Roland wants to stay relevant they cannot invest too much into features that the up and coming generation will see as antiquated upon launch.
@@darrickkeels6387 Thanks for responding, Darrick. I'll keep it short because I'm running out of time currently :)
- re. software updates: yes, Roland has released updates for the Fantom in the past three years. And yes, there were some improvements which added to its value. But if you take a look at Fantom software version 1.0 you have to ask yourself how on earth they released a product with that feature set. I remember it wasn't even possible to export Scenes. The Fantom was rushed to market because it had to be launched, it was an unfinished product in a shiny box. I really stand by this.
- re. DAW integration: they often use this feature to make the Fantom the centerpiece of your studio. And it IS a nice feature, no doubt about it. But do you think Roland will keep up with the Mainstage, Logic and Ableton integration templates if any changes are needed to these? Look: they still do not provide a native M1/M2 compatible control template for Logic. If you want to use the Fantom integration, you have to run Logic in Rosetta compatibility mode. More than 3 years after the M1/M2 launch. I simply do not any trust in Roland on supporting software components longer, sorry. The Mac audio driver is unstable and needs a complete power down now and then. Sorry, when it comes to softwware, I have little trust in Roland as in most other hardware manufacturers.
- re. expectations: if you don't want people to expect it to be a Fantom successor, don't call it Fantom. It's a good synth but a mediocre workstation. I thin we agree here, that was a big mistake.
- re. competition: to be honest, I don't compare it to other weak products, that doesn't make my product better. If Korg, Yamaha and Roland agree to deliver old tech and poor support I won't congratulate them for that, I don't have to buy any of these.
- re. piano sounds: I know that sound can be subjective as can be design or art. But a poor sounding piano sound is a poor sounding piano sound, no matter if some people like it. I'm not talking about a JD-800 piano here which can be perfect although it sounds nothing like a piano. But if Roland releases a "SuperNatural Acoustic Piano 2" soundpack for their most expensive workstation in 2022 lacking any detail, dynamics or decent samples there's nothing to whitewash here.
Peace!
This shouldn't be happening if these tones are on different channels! There's something wrong there!
Sorry but i sold my fantom 8 the big boy wasnt impressed with it at all
No EX Upgrade
And rightfully so. It doesn't have the power for many of the new features.
MODX+ anyday over this
A typical "synth-scene-review"👎 Worldwide the only area of life, that is ignoring, not even using 90% of the machine. Well known for talking about baby-stuff, playing a stupid piano and ignoring the core of all. Ever seen how wasching machines are tested? Coffee-machines? How a $50 hair rasor is reviewed? I have a MODX for 2 years. I show you effects that are from useless to sound-collapsing. Machine stalls when browsing arps. I show you ten's of sound samples, that are buggy unusable. Your mindset and reviews leads to more and more buggy "instruments". I claim, that you have not the slightest clue of this machine.
don't be so arrogant
@@Russsssss And who are you? The "comments reviewer"? Spare your advices for your children.