They're only looking at the situation through the lens of a professional player. I've died to professional apex competitive controller players & I've died to level 20 default skin lifelines on controller and other than movement/game sense there's no noticeable difference in how fast they kill mnk players. MnK players shouldn't know they got "controllered" before they even see the death recap or watch them stand still on a box. Someone with 20 hours on controller should not be able to do the same thing as a professionally signed competitive apex player much less what someone with thousands of hours on MnK can do. Hal switched because he said "it feels like I'm being cheated and this is the only way to win" The devs have openly admitted along with top tier roller pros that AA is too strong, easily abused and needs to be adjusted. Respawn won't though because the game is now overrun with people that have an overinflated sense of skill on .4 & .6 and if nerfed they'd leave the game and respawn will lose $. I understand that not every controller player wants to spend hundreds of hours aim training to get better to compete but MnK players shouldn't be punished for actually taking that time because devs want to "even the play field" unfairly for a quick buck.
Yeah the sad reality is that most people complaining about aim assist dont realize that respawn and ea is unfortunately a business and they're going to pick whichever input contributes more $ to the game, and rn its easily a 3-1 ratio of controller to mnk. No amount of complaining or even boycotting will ever change that fact.
@@dz8327 true its more of a way to cope cause mande knows that it wont be nerf because its business, but thats how humans are they cope to feel better. For me if they can't nerf rotational aim assist, just make guns a little bit meta towards MNK, like buff shotguns and nerf SMG's that would be a fresh change of meta
@@christian3suarez and you are baited for it cause thats what he wants, he wants drama, if you got hurt by his "saltiness and pridefulness" then you've been baited so hard
@@dz8327 the sad reality is that Apex now being 90% controller has 1/3rd the viewers, sponsors, & tournaments as well as player base than it did when it was predominantly MnK a few years back. So in light of that information even other controller players do not want to watch controller on Apex and the devs have driven the game into the ground. Appealing to causal AA abusers is their last ditch effort to save whatever they've got left. If they made the game fun, balanced, and fair it would be popular incidentally and therefor make $. It's fine if someone wants to be a controller player, what I don't get is the ego that comes with it. Taking the easy route usually means you don't get the bragging rights or attitude of someone who takes the time to develop a skill.
As an MNK player, I feel this at the deep level. I love MNK, and when I pop off it does in fact feel super rewarding. The fact that I find myself even considering trying controller is problematic to me.
@@lndex_1440fuck no, not gonna join the handholding brigade to feel a false sense of triumph when my built in software gets the kill. Remember every time you one clip someone, it isn’t you 🙂
Mande's right in how defeating it is to play MnK. I have thousands of MnK hours and I genuinely feel like I have no chance in 1v1 gun fights even against brand new players. I have to play the game so differently to even put up a fight. I've accepted that aim assist will never get a direct nerf because the player base is 90% controller players and little Andy will never get a kill again and stop buying skins, but something has to be done to even the playing field in 1v1 gunfights. A good start would be making visual clutter and aim-punch actually affect controller players.
Let’s do this, I’ve been piling for about 2 months now, level 44 Send me your apex name let’s go to firing range, I’ve never played with a mnk before. I don’t see what you guys are talking about, I die all the time and can’t aim shit down
Started on controller, moved to mnk. Every game I play against the same input is fun, every game I play against mixed inputs sucks. I just think games should be input based. Mnk vs. Mnk, controller vs controller. Keep it simple.
@@apexplayer868i dont know about other servers, but I play in asian server and i could say 80% of people i get team up with or killed by are mnk players. But im in low rank ofc so i cant say for higher rank.
"In every single other game that has controller support with no aim-assist, there's zero pro players" Yea, there's a pretty simple and good reason for that; aim-assist doesn't belong in pro play. Other games knew this from the start and kept the playerbases separate because it's the most fair and makes the most sense.
Mande makes such a good point. Controller always feels like you’re popping off so it feels less rewarding. Ive been enjoying mnk a lot more cuz the satisfaction of popping off is great but then it’s terrible when you get rolled
Because you have to put in more effort. That's why it's more rewarding. No one wants to put in time and effort nowadays. They just want to pay their way through skins and have assists for everything
@@GetShrektMrKrabs I think majority of the players (not pro) play controller because it's what most of us played growing up with. I mean why would you want to go away from something you're comfortable with.
Bad take, this game was initially mnk dominant until crossplay showed everyone how good aim assist was. The mnk population on pc is almost non existent in higher ranks. I myself just couldnt take it anymore and switched to roller.@@OfficerOinksTTV
Sikezz says "if they removed aim assist, I'd literally go put in a job application somewhere". I wonder what he has to say to the hundreds/thousands of really good exceptional MnK players that get shafted out of ALGS teams or get no consideration because their spots all get filled by roller players who can bring more to the team with less effort/skill? Fuck sakes, just split the inputs in ranked/comp. Leave pubs as casual mixed input lobbies. It's not fucking rocket science.
Also tired of hearing the argument about using a thumb, when there are other inputs available to use. Nah it's way easier and less effort for the player to just rely on aimbot.. I mean aim assist. Putting in that job application would take more time than the time it takes to have good aim after picking up a controller.
@@inski im thinking about showing up for the olympics in swimming trunks and demanding that i get a fifty meter head start amongst the other competitors. Hey if apex has taught me anything its that competitive integrity is the least concern of competition and you should actively seek preferential treatment from the organization!!
7:55 literally me, 2100+ hours on mnk since season 6 and I’m on a dual sense edge now, roller is just so consistent and with smg’s being so strong and close range fight happening the majority of the time I felt I couldn’t compete, now 50-100 hours later I’m getting crazy one clips around walls/through doors and 1v3’s I would’ve never gotten on mnk(Alc’s btw not 4-3)
finally someone who gets it. i been saying this for the past 2 years. apex is a close range game 90% of the time because of knockdown shields and the inability to shoot through the environment to finish kills. that means you gotta get close most of the time to finish a kill. and thats where aim assist shines. also because of how great apex's movement platform is, its just more fun to play close range. its crazy how some roller players fail to understand this when they literally look for an smg all game -.-
I have about 6k hours in fps games on MnK. 3k in Overwatch and 3k in Apex. When I was trying to get better at Apex I recorded every death on MnK. Most of the time I died when I had bad aim and lost a trade for example. I tried controller for a month / 100+ hours and got from a 2-3kd to a 6kd+. The sad thing is, I don't think I play better at all. I turn my brain off. I am Running through Lobbys and getting on average one 20bomb a day. I make more mistakes using a controller and don't even really think about what I'm doing. The aim assist makes up for it though. I went back to MnK because I miss the movement (I don't want to use Controller Steam Configs because imo it's cheating) but pretty much stopped playing this game now.
your a angel. its always the same shit because guys like you criying into the internet but is it the truth? i played 4 years on console and hit pred and master and all this things. now im on pc and good MnK player can easy outplay a controller player. thats why i switched to mnk and so many things are easier than on controller. Aiming on mid and long range..Movement etc. and in bo3 bo4 and other games... all know with movement u can outplay 98% all players and thats why i think this discussion is stupid. 99% of you noobs using configs because u didnt invest time to get better
and all good controller player training with none aim assist a lot of time. i dont think i would lose with no aim assist vs so many peoples who are crying like u
I've been saying to remove rotational aim assist but keep slow down aim assist on PC. Keep console as it is or just tone it down a bit and add an option to disable cross play on PC.
@@apexplayer868problem is that the aim asisst problem is on pc and console are forced to crossplay anyway to find games, nerfing the pc aim assist or at least make it so your fps doesn't turn the aa in a cheat would fix everything
@@apexplayer868 they are not forced but if they dont active it they get 10+mins queue in europe at least so they kind of are anyway And no they dont have aimbot lmfao if you see a console player with an op aa its literally a cronus thats all, the aim asisst for console players and also pc players with 60fps is useless, the aa problem is only with 120fps+ aa that tracks strafes for you and have inhuman reflexes/consistency ^^ You should consider getting informations before blaming people because even if there is a shit ton of cronus/strikepacks on console most of them are still easily killable Not saying this in a mean way but console players are usually freekills at any level
@@apexplayer868 you are the one not understanding anything rn xD Aim assist is an aimbot nerfed as hell so yes if u remove all the limiters its an aimbot, its made to help controller players on certain things and is working by looking at whats displayed in a certain region around ur crosshair, the more fps you have and the more infos it gets. So even if 0.6 is IN THEORY better than 0.4 its only correct for 60fps/hz and 75hz is too low to notice a difference but when you go to 120fps/hz and over the pc aim asisst becomes LITERALLY better than a cronus on console, thats why people complain so much about aim asisst on pc and controller on pc and never console FYI 120fps aa on pc literally tracks strafes for you, cancel horizontal recoil and have inhuman reflexes, it gives you a better consistency than a 20k hours mnk player training everyday and is better than any cheat on console Noone care about console aa its just fair like this, the problem is not the aim asisst itself that is required its about how the fps improve it and make it better than a litteral cheat But as example if 120fps was unlocked for next gen consoles the console aa would become a problem to if not nerfed When i say they dont have aimbot i mean a aimbot looking aa, not the shitty 60fps one that barely do something ^^
good question: "Do you really feel like you're poppin' off?" Cuz thats what ive been wondering too. Looking at these boring, effortless clips of a controllerplayer just sliding the crosshair across the screen.
Me as a mouse and keyboard player for 30 years will speak for all us mouse and keyboard players. We understand controller players need aim assist to play a FPS game and let alone vs a player like me on mouse and keyboard I use to be a console controller player. But when you have us on mouse and keyboard that is really good at what we do and are skill level and we lose 95% of the gun fights that should say something about how busted aim assist is now days with Crossplay. We need to react to everything on the fly in a split second why we muti task with the mouse and keyboard all at the same time right hand aims, tracks and turns us left hand works the keyboard like a piano. Pretend like you are typing but you can only can use your left hand and you can type 500 words a minute that's what we are doing not looking at the keyboard at all. Why we aim and track there is so much more then having a giant desk and moving are arm back and forth up down side to side diagonal it's not that simple as controller players think it is if it was then there will be more mouse and keyboard players then there is controller players but there is not over 3 billion consoles controller players and what maybe 100k mouse and keyboard players and 90% of the players on PC are using a controller so they don't count. But all my lobbies are controller players so yeah not fair for me doing all the work for a kill my self and I get killed by someone that just started playing video games they can beat me with little to no effort on there part because of the overpowered aim assist then it becomes like a cheat 0% reaction time and rotational aim assist witch it is soft aimbot that is what soft aimbot is all you controller players you can hook a mouse and keyboard up just like us on PC can hook a controller up no excuses give it a try and see out it turns out for you. Controllers have 2 types of aim assist it's the bot build into the controller that aims and tracks players BUT it has bullet magnetism two it will be more fair if controllers did not have bullet magnetism you guys can keep your rotational aim assist take out bullet magnetism that is the true killer for controllers us on Mouse and Keyboard will not get a single hit marker unless the center dot on the crosshair is on the enemy but you guys can get hit marker and the center dot is far from touching the enemy facts. How does bullet magnetism work? Loosely speaking, Bullet Magnetism is a game mechanic that allows a shooter to be off-target by a set number of degrees and still have a shot register as a hit. When a round is fired, instead of it going where the shooter was aiming, it instead travels off-axis to impact the target. Playing a video game using mouse and keyboard is not like using UA-cam or Google. I never cared or even thought about Controller in years and the aim assist until Crossplay. Crossplay ruined gaming for us mouse and keyboard players it really feels like a cheat look even Shroud said something about aim assist he said what I say Controllers vs Mouse and Keyboard is like night and day 1000% different is every whay and they should not be mixed together. What killed gaming for me is Crossplay and the soft aimbot that is aim assist it 100% ruined competitive gaming for us mouse and keyboard players and it is 100% cheating. I have been gaming from the start of video games and got into PC gaming 30 years ago and never played on the console and the controller again nothing but mouse and keyboard no matter what game I played so I got really good 1 of the best to do it I'm still really good. My flicks and snaps are on another level and when I'm on fire for get about it you will not beat me anyone. it feels like I have around 500k games or more in my gaming life under my belt I really can't put a number on it I played or tried just about them all and if it was a FPS game I played it or tried it trust that. Just don't pin me on mouse and keyboard vs the world on controllers aim assist no 1 plays on mouse and keyboard anymore game dev's are building the games for controllers and porting them to mouse and keyboard try to fly in Warzone with a mouse and keyboard none of us M&K players do it's not built for mouse and keyboard facts it's all controller players. Now go play Battlefield 1942 and fly the DC Mod was the best it's build for mouse and keyboard and not controller. Aim assist when it is this overpowered is in no matter in what way, shape, or form you look at it Aim Assist is a crutch and training wheels and it carries every player to a win or ranked nothing more. Controller Players love to defend Aim Assist "because it gives you skill" no it doesn't. It's a crutch plain and simple. So all these tournaments do you see any mouse and keyboard players no they are a dying breed mouse and keyboard players we are the players built different well us really good players all you controller players are built the same aim assist is what makes you. And all controller players say switch why should I change to controller when I been gaming on mouse and keyboard 30 years I like having my own set of skills at aiming, tracking, flicking, snapping and everything I do on the mouse and that is just some of the mouse skills using a keyboard is a different set of skills on the left hand I take pride in my kills when it is a insane kill but nothing new for me I been doing it 30 years. You controller players hook a mouse and keyboard up to your console or PC and see for your self just how much different the 2 inputs really are it is like night and day 1000% different in everyway and should not be mixed together at all let alone in a competitive First Person Shooters. I'm working for a kill why the 0% reaction time and rotational aim assist and bullet magnetism witch it really is soft aimbot does the work for you. Console has a 0.6 value factor for aim assist, aka, 60% for every millisecond you aim at your target. On PC, that value is 0.4, or 40%. That's a different of 0.2, 20%, meaning console has a total of 50% higher aim assist value than PC does so shut up with PC has stronger aim assist Controller are for little boys and mouse and keyboard is for the BIG DOGS.. I'm a TOP 1% Mouse and Keyboard player have been 30 years nothing new. With Warzone when I shoot I can't see shit so much recoil, smoke, heat haze, dust effects all at the time it is blinding when us on mouse and keyboard need to see you to aim and track. And I even said it back in the days I will destroy controller players if they ever was in my match so they Crossplayed games now days and gave controller players soft aimbot with 2 types of aim assist rotational aim assist with 0% reaction time and bullet magnetism that is what soft aimbot is but the true killer for controller players is bullet magnetism take out bullet magnetism you guys will need to have to aim more on target and not be 5 feet off target and still get a hit marker. All you console controller players go play any game that is not Crossplay and come tell me how the aim assist is vs all Crossplay games it is like night and day it's that different. They gave you guys crazy OP soft aimbot and they called it aim assist because of players like me on mouse and keyboard in all Crossplay games. It is in the name aimbot had a baby and they called it aim assist it uses the same type of code to work that's why kill cams everyone looks like they are cheating that is what soft aimbot fine tuned looks like. And Crossplay ruined competitive gaming and gaming point blank for me I'm working for all my kills and aim assist does the work for controller players just have ok or good centering maybe a little stick drift and aim assist does the hard work for you that is what a shooter is made off of aiming and tracking right. Just give me Mouse and Keyboard only lobbies and I will be happy at least that way it all comes down to skill who is the better player who has the most set of skills wins games. I just like it if they had to work as hard as I do for a kill or what ever the case is M&K vs M&K it all comes down to are own set of skills we no and learn and adapt to how other players are playing if they are good change your playstyle up on the fly you will win every time. Us top 1% pro level M&K players some of us have multiple different playstyles it all depends on how the enemy team and players are playing before we can switch it up and play different and still be aggressive the aggressive don't change just the way I play will change.. Don't be mad at me for the facts Controller vs Mouse and Keyboard have 100% different mind sets on gaming. We play to be the best and test are skills you play just to play in your bed. How can anyone say different you will try. Not all mouse and keyboard players are good only a select few of us that put time and years into it I'm a top 1% Mouse and Keyboard player. There is my 2cents on the matter.
I agree with Kine. 0.3 should make things a whole lot better. Test it, if it's still a problem make it 0.275 or, 0.325 & keep going till both input has a fair chance. Also i disagree with Sikezz, if they nerf AA from 0.4 people would not quit, they would just go back to playing on their preferred input. Cause rn it's tilted to rollers majority, cause most MnK just swapped or quit.
Yall making it sound like MNK doesn't stand a chance now. Which is bs. The numbers don't lie. The numbers show that MNK is still just as good if not better than controller. Aim asist has been in the game since day 1 but MNK dominated like every season. Now some good console players bought a pc and things started to change MNK players became crybabies. Fact is aim asist has been the same since day one in Apex and MNK still dominated.
Without aim assist their performance would drop brutally. Aim assist = consistency and confidence. These roller beasts rarely miss more than 5 shots per clip. However, the best MnK players miss way more shots per clip.
You saying controller performance would go down if aim assist was removed is like saying the sky is blue. It’s a controller dude, of course it would suck without some level of AA.
@@duran9799 Ya, it's pretty obvious. And that's why it doesn't make sense to consider removing the only thing that brings competitiveness to controller players. They would turn into bots 🤣🤣
@@Lucas_Stradeusdefending controller players when they rely on aim assist more than they can control their own shots? lol. it only proves that controller players rely on that more than they should
this overwhelming effect is even higher for console players as ive seen people who are newer to the game and arent good absolutely dominate a good player then wiff for the next minute till they die, it’s especially apparent with certain guns, mainly car and flatline where bad console players doesnt even make it look like their trying to hit the enemy with them from a far then have almost perfect accuracy up close (ofc not always but it happens a lot)
best point made was at 7:41. i have thousands of hours on mnk but i still pick up controller in pubs if i just wanna dick around. its more consistent and less mentally demanding to use honestly. i have a higher skill ceiling on mnk but controller makes me play a lot more consistently throughout a whole pub game
I bought a roller to try it out couple months ago i dnt get how roller players say its hard especially on 4 3. I ran around like a bot and dropped 2k+ consistently on ranked diamond lobbies. I was laughing the entire time whenever i kept consistently one clipping people with the r99 i've come to terms that the roller community are just bots who like to the ego boost.
@@Astelch yep. I grew up playing controller and stopped at 2015. Picked it up to see if the muscle memory would kick in, but it didn't need to. Yes, I ran around like a bot with gun in hand and looted like a bot, but boy if someone came close to me I would beam them with any SMG or the Flatline they didn't stand a chance against someone with 30 minutes to an hour of controller play time
Bro said MnK player have less passion and don't play the game as much is wild 9:49 . Explain the amount of hours MnK players put into aim training and into the range. If they didn't have the passion they wouldn't do that. Shout out Mande the goat though!
I saw a clip of Verhulst trying to kill someone in the gravity cannon while flying through the air. They were moving fast enough that where their models actually were and where the AI thought they were was slightly off. The aim assist was dragging the crosshair to where the AI thought the enemy player was, and Verhulst physically COULD NOT MOVE HIS CROSSHAIR. The game is essentially playing itself, it’s really not faur
@@kavid8120 imagine telling someone to get off their preferred input just to remove all the skill aspect from the game and use the crutch that is aim assist. Yikes
Great video and discussion on AA. It is sad to play against roller as a MnK player. It is no way fair you just walk in and die 9/10 times. I have 4000 hours in apex, 10k BR kills, and I can literally lose to any newbie one clip me. Just think for a moment in reverse, if every new MnK player can 1 clip a 4k hours roller player 9/10 time, can you feel how devastating is that now?
probably over 8k hours and 15k kills on octane. lost to a lvl 58 roller player today in a tdm. picked up a sniper and just observed his playing. actual bot. but when anyone gets into that range its game over. really ridiculous shit. all those thousands of hours to get beamed by AI using AI
also, when you practice as a mnk player. do 90 minute sessions, then take a 5 minute break where you close your eyes and do absolutley nothing. also only do maximu 3 x90 minute sessions a day. that is actually your brain's liimit for learning new things. when you over do it, you actually forget all of the muscle memory you just been practicing. i learned this on the huberman lab podcast, dr lumberman is professor at the standford medical schoiol with a specialization on eye sight and memory.
Tbh as a controller player I wanted to see how aim assist would feel off and after like I wanna say 5-10 minutes. I got used to it and felt more free. When I turned aim assist back on, I could feel the sticky aim again. I like ALC and I wouldn’t mind no aim assist…
AA doesn't have the same impact on Gen that it has on other roller player because his Sens is so astronomically HIGH, not to mention he plays it that way on a Linear curve. Which is why when he turns AA off he's still able to BEAM pretty consistantly.
well yeah thats true but most controller players play on a low sense, and some are forced to (like myself) because the effects of stick drift are a lot more noticeable on high sens and all of my controllers have it, im 16 and pay for my own gaming shit so im not going to buy new rollers all the time
@@Sora-o big facts there my guy. 8000 hours on mnk in apex alone to get beamed by bots with no movement, no game sense, nothing. take a 1v1 and lost every time. literally happened to me today in a tdm so i picked up a sniper and just watched the guys movement and how he plays. running with gun out with no direction. and if anything gets too close it dies. really opened my eyes to how strong AA is. i had to knwo where this guy was, plan a whole route to kill him and still almost died cause i got too close. once he was able to turn and get his crosshair on me it was time to side slide tap strafe and STILL left that fight with about 10hp even after having the jump on him. it made me sad honestly cause theres no skill in that, whereas im aim training to fight some dude who gets more than half his aim assisted by a software that is faster and more consistent than any human in a primarily close range game. really annoying and saddening /:
Made is dead on about how demotivated you get getting constantly 1 clipped up close. That’s exactly why I don’t play that much and that’s exactly why I stop playing when I do
Only hope is for the APAC MNK demons to save us from the rollers. I dnt think roller players know how hard it is to consistently beam someone 100-0 it takes like 10k+ hours on mnk to achieve that kind of talent. Roller players would see shroud highlights at his prime and call them lowlights thats how used they are to AA
@@marcosmendez8805 "SoUnD's LiKe A sKi-" Shut your oogabooga dumbass up with that shit. Getting 1 clipped by a roller with the game's help is not fun for anyone. It's brain dead for the person doing it and not fun for the person getting one clipped.
yeah he is but I think he is also lost because you can tell he's starting to think the controller is unfair when it's the aim assist. I don't think he's qualified to comment on some thing regarding it because he genuinely believes controller raw input (for pros) is viable against MNK players.
@@joe-ug6fn pc is obv way better anyway next gen doesn’t even have stable 60fps atm 😂 Roller is a flawed device for precision. That’s a fact. It’s in its design.
I like how seige makes you play with no aim assist your skill is purely based on what sense you use and just practising your aim without aa but for apex people have been using it since the beginning it be hard to go to no aa but a set value on both platforms could be balanced
You chose the wrong game to compare lmao. Does R6 operators able to move as fast as pathfinder, octane, ult bloodhound, and other movements legends? Does it take an entire mag to kill an enemy? R6 doesn’t have AA because it’s not required for controller to be able to play properly. You only need to track a few second while holding fire to kill someone player also not moving as fast as in apex
I’ve played cod my whole life n switched to pc 5 yrs ago n I know AA is Required but rotational AA is not. Rotational aa is faster than any human reaction time which makes it grossly unfair. This is the reason pc players have a better chance of winning a gunfight at range. There is no RAA involved at range.
"it's not balanced, especially for pro players" is kind of wrong. AA is actually stronger in casual play and the lower you go in MMR. The top MnK players and pros are good enough to overcome the AA advantage to an extent. But your average MnK player isn't. So it helps casual roller players more and the AA advantage is actually more significant outside of pro-play when it's just your average MnK player against average roller players. AA doesn't just need to be adjusted at the pro-level. But I still think splitting the inputs is the best solution because no value of AA will ever make it balanced. Both inputs are just too different mechanically and do things that other can't.
I think it is fine by tweaking the aim assist to 0.2. We should all know that AIMING is the thing what really makes the kill. Tap strafing and other MnK advantages cannot help players to get kills. This is why MnK players hate rollers, one clipped by rollers.
@@ramirogonzalez7471 theres a reason lol. Bro is hardstuck plat with a roller and just scared nerfing it would make you show ur true rank of silver. Dnt take it from Mande that roller is OP. The best apex player Hal even proved his point. Roller is op but if EA aint gonna nerf it ima switch to it and win on it. Even Kine said Roller is stronger than MNK amongst other preds and u still deny it. Just come to terms that you're shit at apex its not hard; just humble urself and say the AA carries you.
As an MnK player since week 1. This might be my last season of apex. I just can’t do it anymore. It’s so demotivating dying to controllers every single game. I’d say maybe 5% of the time I die to an MnK player. It’s time to stop pretending apex will every change. They make way too much money off of stupid people
@@kindajacked5154 Communists would love competitive Apex: No individual skill or talent, everyone on the same 40% assisted aim, everyone blends in, noone is left behind. Just the competitive scene is bland and boring, but who cares?
I feel you man. Hope you find a game that appreciates your dedication and rewards the all the effort you put in fairly. It might be hard since live-service greed is rampant right now, but there will 100% be better, less greedy games than Apex in the future (the bar is very low).
Also Overwatch has no aim assist on PC, and there are controllers in top 500 in all roles. It's not impossible by any means, but it would be much more difficult and it would kill the casual scene.
Overwatch is very different though. The style of aiming is unlike apex and the game depends much less on aim in comparison. Top500 is also much easier to be in than ALGS Pro lobbies. I think Aim Assist is completely busted how it is rn but going pro in Apex w/o Aim Assist, is an impossible task if you don't have something like the best IGLing imaginable.
@@Sheriko I would argue aiming in Overwatch is overall more difficult as there are much more different styles of movement happening all at once. Also of course top 500 is different from ALGS, the exact same way Pred lobbies are different from OWL. No one made that comparison, I was just saying aiming without aim assist is completely possible. Also I’m not sure if you know but there is a few controller players participating in the Overwatch World Cup at the moment, as well as numerous contenders using roller as well.
@@MiniMcNellis didn't know controller's players competed in ow that's crazy. Respect to them. Overall aiming is more difficult in overwatch, yes. But you have characters that have no recoil, turrets, hitscan weapons , or most importantly, auto aim. Just play monkey, rein, brig, Moira, mercy....
@@MiniMcNellis I understood wrong then. I thought you mentioned the controller players being in top 500 in overwatch, negate the statement in the video saying that you couldn't go pro on controller in apex without aim assist. Because I understand the pro apex scene pretty much under algs, I thought you wanted to compare t500 and algs Mb
@@Sheriko oh no you’re totally fine, I worded it very poorly that’s on me. However about your point with characters with no recoil or auto aim, yes that’s true.. but that’s also to balance the rapid movements on short cooldowns during the fights. Also I really wish I could just play whoever was the easiest, but when you’re in the t500 ladder, you HAVE to play certain heroes in order to win the game. There are a few exceptions to that, but most one tricks in the t500 ladder are also contenders players as well.
To summarize where this debate has settled at over the years: MnK is superior to controller in every regard except for medium to close range aiming/tracking in which controller is vastly superior. As the majority of fighting happens at close range, controller is extremely strong and thus nearly all successful pro teams have at least one controller player. These players would still be pro level if aim assist were nerfed so a slight nerf to aim assist, at least on PC, seems to be in order. However, Respawn is unlikely to do this given the number of controller players in the general player base. And it seems like every reasonable conversation about aim assist ends up concluding this at this point.
@@m3kbeatz movement… controller can do it all man. Name it, tap strafing neo strafing super glides mantle jumps etc. all easily done on controller in fact it’s easier on controller than mnk, do you “get it” yet?
@@kindajacked5154controller can't tap strafe without configs which isn't allowed in comp. Controller can't move while looting. Controller can't reload near a down teammate or door. Controller actually have to learn the recoil patterns. Get it?
at the end of the day, the playing field should be even, both inputs should have a place in comp/ranked/pubs whatever tf it is. But the problem with that is, thats not really achievable, the reason is, if smgs were meta, controller is gonna smoke mnk, but if snipers, scouts, shotguns, ars are meta then mnk will be slightly stronger than controller, especially if you nerf aa, the weapons listed above will only become harder. But at the end of that day aa has too many benefits in apex because apex is poorly balanced/created. Too much visual clutter, too much aim punch, too many situations where controller will strive better than mnk. And then you have to take into account the "movement" advantages that mnk has, but if majority console players played in mnk lobbies they would realize that most mnk players have the exact same movement as controller players because mnk players as a majority are not that great, same with the controller players but the aa helps the controller players where as mnk has nothing helping the mnk players. But at the end of the day this should not stop either input from trying to be as best as they can possibly be.
no, the playing field SHOULD NOT be even. This is completely false. One input has an ENTIRE arm and the other is a thumbstick. These inputs do not belong together period. EA/Respawn is grouping them together for money. That is all. This comes down to greed. Aim assist takes away the integrity of competition. Shooters should only be raw input. That allows for the skill ceiling to be true raw talent, and nothing else.
Roller meta has gotten so big the past seasons despite no real AA changes imo to the loadout changes. Since I started when seer came out, we’ve had 2 new insanely good spray guns added (Nem and CAR), r99 has been buffed from being OP to a joke to back to being the best gun, the prowler is easily the best floor smg rn, and only real nerf was to 301. They need to add another low TTK flick gun like a new shotgun or sniper to A) provide mnk a new weapon to balance out sprays B) dilute the floor loot with guns rollers can’t immediately melt ppl with.
In Battlefield 4 competitive on Xbox and PS4 everybody used no rotation with slow down aimassist and people were aiming a hell of a lot better against people with aim assist and people on mouse and keyboard as well it also has to do with the aim mechanics of the game and how they use the sticks. They have to put a stability type slow down aim assist so you can track good with your thumbs
@jamesgum2134 it died in 2015 semi correct. People still scrim on Xbox, ps4 and pc. I've done a few on pc with ogs. The movement tech is actually better in a few ways apex is not and a lot of people know if you understand the pro movement tech. If apex had sharper jumping instead of floaty jumping with proper air control. Tap strafe is good but bf3-bf4-bfh you didn't need to. I know u know what I'm saying. Combine tap strafe with sharper jumps carrying momentum could be a game changer
My question is why people are getting rewarded for disabling themselves. You chose the worse input, why should you get crutches (Aim assist) for choosing to use a controller? You literally disabled yourself. If you can use a mouse and keyboard then use them, right?
@@cadenceew7933 because it removes 1 less thing to focus on. Recoil control takes a lot of effort and it isnt worth it. Imperial Hal talked about that it allows him to focus more on other things than recoil and he might as well abuse it.
@@ItzzWarfare Right, but I'm arguing that if it's harder to play the game with a controller, why make it easier? Especially if you can choose to play with a mouse and keyboard. On PC having a controller with aim assist is like disabling yourself and getting rewarded for it. I don't understand why aim assist even exists for PC players who have the option of using the better input whenever they want, unlike console players.
Honestly aim assist also kind of sucks, I wish I can aim without but it’s literally not possible. The degree of precision is insane for only one ligament in your thumb to be in control off
sikes never heard of that guy that got radiant multiple times on controller in valorant, there are ways to outplay even the best aimer's they just aren't put into a situation where they have to use their brain like in games with no aim assist
I'm on PC and I play MNK and never touched roller. But I have to say for how badly I have been controllered by 0.6ers. I think that playing on a console must be the most boring experience possible. Press button - thing in front of you dies. yay. fun. It just seem like it would be a zero challenge experience. If you see them first, they die. If they see you first, you die. No outplay potential, nothing. I would love to see the player retention for PC MNK players vs Console players. Surely they quit out of pure boredom.
Agreed, no one would notice a nerf to AA if it went to .3 overall. Couldn’t they make aim assist feel like MNK so that people genuinely have skill on both inputs and the better player wins? I wonder if they controller just ends up being ALCs
The only things they could to to make AA feel like MNK is remove the 0ms reaction time and add a variable sensitivity / slowdown so controller can flick back after the crosshair is off the target. I always thought of .4 or .6 as a sort of cone for aim assist to engage. I imagined it as targets being 140% or 160% of their original size to compensate for controller's terrible precision. That's why I don't see any point in changing the value unless it's console. Just change the reaction time so we're playing against a human.
To be fair the 0.3 and 0.6 values everybody is talking about are not the real problem with AA its the rotational aspect to it with the instant reaction as axtra was saying. This is the thing that makes AA broken against MNK. If the rotational aspect of AA was nerfed such that the player had to react to the direction change before the AA would change direction so that you are infact playing against a human instead of a piece of code. That change may even mean that AA has to get stronger in those traditional values of 0.3 and 0.6.
reasons why nobody plays competetive COD on MNK. That game was built for controller. To end this debate make a seperate leage for controller player and APEX has been a close range fight ever since, its like a swordfight but with guns.
End of debate indeed. Pc players shouldn’t even be in controller player lobbies in the first place. When crossplay came to be I can promise you every single controller player universally wanted to be matched between consoles. No console player has EVER wanted a pc player in their lobbies.
Can anyone tell me when was the last time a MnK player sprawled out of nowhere and was already playing in ALGS (at LAN). All that in the span of a few weeks/months. I'm just curious. That's all.
tbh. there isnt a lot of esports where controller is making it above water when it comes to money. the fact this game is helping us controller players a chance to make serious money again
Less skillful input should never be rewarded. Just be thankful that controller exists. Controllers shouldn't be a thing. It only exists because of NPC's.
You can tell no aim assist is not accurate just by moving an analog on a menu. You can’t precisely place the cursor exactly where you want. It’s close to where you want but not exact which would fuck you in fights.
"Controller players come in, they're super passionate, all they do is play the game" "A majority of MnK players don't even play the game nearly as much or have zero passion compared to controller players" That wasn't the case for the first two years of the game's life on PC. Yea, I'd be more passionate and play the game more if I was playing with a significant advantage and getting great results. Also, there's no doubt that playing on controller is less physically taxing than on MnK so of course they have to spend less time warming up and can be more consistent over long sessions. I personally just don't want to go back to playing on a controller just for Apex, fuck me I guess.
Mande is right, roller is to good at the highest level and should be nerfed which would lead to pubs doing the same thing or at least having the option to play a lower AA. Maybe it can kick in in plat and have an option for it in pubs. I play on roller and I am not the greatest (high plat, haven’t played much this season). I get rolled a lot more lately but a huge factor in all of this is how strong subs are they shouldn’t be as strong in mid range fights.
I would have to get better at the game to verify this. But I feel like my lobbies are currently the most disjointed of an experience for the mnk vs roller experience. If you are a pro on MNK its fair to say your aim is pretty goated. So you stand a good chance against a controller player. If you are on your first hour of controller then you probably cant hit anything at all. But there is this moment where your raw aim becomes good enough that with the 'help' of AA all your bullets just hit. While the mnk player doesn't even stand a chance because their dog crap aim gets no assist(I don't want any assist).
@@sparkyenergia if I understand you correctly, the reason you can’t completely remove aim assist from roller is the tracking on the sticks. It’ll never and I mean never be able to do what a mouse can do. Even with saying that I think mnk gets some aim assist but it’s low.
@@HeyJoe. Mouse doesn't get a single ounce of aim assist. There is nothing there to bail out your reaction speed or poor tracking. What he is saying is that there is a huge gap in the intermediate levels of gameplay where a intermediate MnK player without thousands of hours of practice, will get rolled over and over and over by controllers with 20 hours of experience because the tracking levels rotational aim assist currently give you are on par with the top 1% of mouse and keyboard aimers. It's even more oppressive than at the pro level, and sadly many pros do not realize this and think it's only a pro level issue. Unless you are very mechanically gifted, you will get rolled for many months longer starting MnK vs controller. No one is advocating for a *complete* removal of aim assist, but the current system of rotational aim is completely overpowered - to a 20 year MnK player such as myself, roller clips frequently look like cheats rather than human gameplay.
7:39 100percent true. I have 3.2k hours in apex. played this season hit masters, got battlepass lvl 110 and stopped playing, because ranked is no fun, pubs is no fun and controller players are simple better. I am stagnating, not getting better and losing fun playing. I am thinking of switching to controller, although I have never played any fps on controller. I am willed to learn tho, just for the fun of it and also just to have sth new to do while playing apex. because on mnk it is boring and frustrating some times.
i play on console so most of the time im locked in console lobbies till that weird bug on the mix tape mode where I'd get matched with pc players other than that its aim assist vs aim assist on console unless its long ranged then pc would usually be better or just grabbing a sniper/ nemesis
As a controller player, I would actually like it, even as it is 0.6 on console, as I have played since season 0 and when casually playing pubs, currently on 5-3, I keep losing more of 1v1 against me players who have slower camera, questioning if I was the problem or what 😂 Somehow it feels as if I miss half a mag, when enimies hit everything.
The aa problem is not on console dont worry, even the 60fps aa sucks on pc but its when you go over 120fps that it starts being an aimbot (tracks strafes for you, reduce horizontal recoil, have inhuman reflex and consistency....)
@@Sora-o like if you seriously think the console aa is the problem because they have .6 you missed the whole point of the aa debate, it was never about the console AA, even when the debate started ^^ Play on pc with 120hz/fps+ and a low/mid sens and the aa will track direction changes for you and for a long time enough to react(and since it overwrite commands for a short duration its even more op) plus control horizontal recoil because of smoothing and will give you a consistency that people with 20k hours on mnk can't even dream about after a few hundred hours Ever wondered why controller players on pc especially past diamond are oneclipping 9/10 times while at the same time they can't hit a single shot or even control their recoil decently past 30m ? Guess what, its cus they can't do shit without the software Not saying that all controller players are like that but its easily 80%+ of players past diamond/master wouldnt do a third of what they are actually doing with 60fps aim assist ^^ There is still skilled players like extessy, gen, velhust, snipedown etc etc that would fuck most players even without aa but most players are heavily carried by the aa at higher ranks, everyone have ay least 144hz if not 240 ^^ Like im sorry if you thought console players were hated or feared at all but its quite the opposite, only idiots with no informations think console aa is op xD
Apex roller pros who could play MnK deserve no respect. Hal and Gen included. All pro players are part of the problem because they're not doing enough to get EA/Respawn to make the necessary changes to make both playerbases happy. The MnK pro's have teammates who play roller and roller player don't want to nerf themselves, so all the pros seem to be scared of change even if it's for the better. Just split the inputs in ranked/comp. Leave pubs as casual mixed input lobbies. It's not rocket science. If Respawn separated Ranked play by inputs and gave MnK players the option to have MnK-only lobbies, I guarantee you A LOT of the MnK players that switched to roller would switch back and A LOT of the MnK players that straight up quit would come back. Because for the vast majority of people, if you know how to play on MnK, Apex is 100 times more fun compared to on roller. But getting ass-blasted on PC by AA from the now majority roller playerbase really sours the whole experience these days. Apex's playerbase is huge. Queue times would be fine with split queues. And if anything, they should let us queue in the firing range and let us be in the firing range during queue.
"Aim assist should just have slow down" yeah...that's exactly what aim assist started as. It's only in recent years that these devs have started turning aim assist into borderline aim bot that tracks for you.
@@marekmaly2337 i know. “If you need help, you are not a pro” is such a dumb take. If you wanna be a pro, you need a lot of help. That statement just doesn’t make sense.
@@hhhgh5641 No, if you are a pro, you don't rely on any external help outside of your skill. Talk about coaches and vod review and what not, that's not help, that's practice.
@@marekmaly2337 Any feedback that you Recieve from other people which makes you better is help. A lot of pros get external help. You think lebron doesn’t get any external help? Coaching is literally helping . If coaching isn’t helping then I don’t know what is. Hals not a pro according to your logic cause he needed help from raven to fix his macro lol. Arent nrg looking for a coach as well to HELP them with the game?
I just have fun playing on my ps4 I'd suck without aim assist, I really think they should just make the option to disable cross play and make it so you dont face controller on PC either
Bro just please put mnk players with mnk players and roller with roller so I can stop seeing people complaining about aim assist this honestly makes the game not even fun to play
Sikez is right with the ttk. I used to rock no aim assist in cod 24/7 no problem and tried doing it in apex and it was 10x harder with the movement and health its impossible to stay consistent. Its possible but its way harder to track and land every shot on apex. Cod is way easier without aim assist than apex. Now i switch on with regular weapons and turn it off when using snipers in cod, aim assist ruins my aim when sniping when playing cod. But i need the aim assist in apex. Im sure this is just me tho i also broke my finger once and the aim assist was impossible to control so i stopped using it
Mnk lowkey easy tho bc of the joystick on controller it’s definitely harder to aim when you barely move the stick and your whole screen moves more than it should. And im not being biased its just from the experience ive had with aim assist and trying to aim with a broken finger. I also use max sens on cod and 6/5 on apex so i cant speak for everyone its just my preference when using aim assist
controller players are grinding more simply because of the stamina benefit. you can literally sit on ur ass all day and play, on kbm u gotta sit up right all day and get tired over time......
Extessy dropped a 4K 20 with Aim Assist off. If beams look like cheating, there is something wrong. I use both inputs and I would accept 0.2 aim assist.
A slowdown only would not work. AA is in to balance out the differences in both inputs. Games have tried a slowdown only and it just makes aiming feel worse then if it was off. It only creates inconsistencies and doesn't help. There has never been a pro controller player in any fps game without rotational. Could you hit pred without it? Sure! granted at the same time you can without doing any damage.. The fact is rotational is needed for controller. Yes, it should be turned down to .3 on all platforms but it is needed. Even as of now in tournaments with controller at .4 there are still more mnk players in most events. The gap isnt as big as ppl are making it out to be. Turning it down to .3 or .2 is the only reasonably way to balance it out without full on killing the input.
Just switched to controller recently and its definitely the move if you want to be more consistent, the aim assist is just too good compared to mnk which has no aim assist.
is it THAT good ? is it worth to try ? because i never play controller (even dont own one).. i think the last time i touch controller is on 2017 when playing fifa with my friends.. thats it
@@inspiritGalaxy It's pretty strong man. I literally bought a controller just to play apex and rocket league lol. Controllers in apex have an aim assist feature that automatically smoothes and makes adjustments onto your target unlike mnk where you have to have full control. You lose some movement and armor swaps but the aim assist benefit definitely overrides that unless you superglide and tap strafe more than you shoot your gun lol. I'd say it's worth a try at least for apex if you play it a lot.
@@nolanb4165 I tried using it a few times but the aim assist doesn't seem to work for me, or it works but very miniscule compared to what I watched from streamers (I'm on PC btw). Or there are some controller input config in-game that I need to do? Coz rlly dont know sh*t about them......
@@jeremyg2236 nah, no need for any settings or configs, the built-in assists are all you need. controller is a terrible input device, imo quite hard to play apex with. but you dont need to be good at playing controller. you just need to figure out how to use aimassist. watch a video. i tried it aswell and it worked - i was absolute ass and beaming for 200 (video uploaded if youre interested). but im staying on mnk bcs its way more fun and skillful :)
Ppl gotta realize tho not every controller player abuses aim assist when you play high sensitivity aim assist does nothing. But I do agree most ppl tho I feel like they should drop the console aim assist to .4 like on pc. Almost everybody just runs 4-3 or some other slow sens n they hit every shot it’s ridiculous
The problem is, aside from AA being OP or not, everytime I lose to controllers, it gets me starting to think that I lost because of AA. This kind of shit actually makes such a bad game experience for MnK players. The truth could have been that the controller player was better than me and that's why he beat me, but still AA makes me not admit it and whine about AA. It's like a never-ending vicious cycle.
Another point, I’ll tell you what, remove tap strafe etc and all the movement tech that is impossible on controller, make shields swapping the same across the board for controller and MnK players adjust how small of a micro adjustments MnK can make and then you can remove AA since the playing field will then be level
No one is saying to remove AA or remove movement. Movement is such a small percentage of even MNK players. It’s easy to look at the top players. the issue with aim assist it Timbuck Timmy with 49 hours in apex can beat TTVSweatMASTER9000 with 3900+ hours in apex due to the fact Tim is playing on a controller and sweat master is on MNK. But without AA the game would be only MNK like the reverse situation rn. Why would anybody play roller at that point. Just nerf it or rework aim assist not remove it
@@kindajacked5154No that is a perfectly logical take. You guys want the one thing that helps us deal with the insurmountable advantages you have then you guys should lose every single advantage you have against controllers.
@@Lovell_STI 0 idea where this made up situation people speak of has come from, I promise you now a silver / gold controller player is not killing a master / Pred MnK player in a straight up 1vs1 and you’d be stupid to think otherwise
@@jpmachado_ yes, genuine question. It’s very common for low skill low elo underperforming hardstuck controller players to make the “whole arm” argument hence my first comment
@@jpmachado_ all of us masters/pred controller players are aware the “whole arm” argument is invalid. They have their whole arm, desk space, mouse on 2d plane, high performance, etc yet we still beat them with our thumbs. Our input is op bro 💀
If you're a good controller player, you would be advantaged to have aim-assist nerfed. That way, when you get in a fight against what will most likely be another roller player, whoever has the best aim wins. Right now, for the most part it's whoever has the best TTK or the first shot. Good controller players, those who spent time in the range WILL stay good if they lower AA. Although the bad ones won't be able to get those 120+ dmg sprays with a no magazine CAR on a tap-strafing horizon... they'll need to take the time, get in the range and practice their mechanics.
Nobody wants that. If you’re an MnK player it’s because you enjoy the idea of your skill being the defining factor. When it comes to competitive games, skill should be the number 1 thing that separates the greats from the mid players. When all the greats are being assisted, they’re not that great anymore. In any other sport they ban certain things that would assist the athlete too much, and the reason is because they want the skill to shine. It’s also the reason why if an MnK player were to use a program that gave them aim assist, they would get banned. Aim assist is just inherently unfair and completely destroys the competitive integrity of a skill based competitive game.
Why do MnK pros/streamers not understand how difficult it is to aim without aim assist on a controller, it would honestly be easier to pick up MnK and learn it. On MnK you have better movements, quicker looting / shield swaps, better aim for mid/long range ability to key bind soooo many things yet controller is better at close range and all of a sudden that’s a problem. This whole argument stems from MnK players believing that gaming is made for MnK only and controller is this thing that’s new and shouldn’t exists and it’s honestly sad af neither input is a “master race”
AA reaction time is 0 ms, my reaction time is 180ms, instant flawless reaction time will always have the upper hand on me. On mnk I have to anticipate the direction change while on controller you don't because you are instantly pulled towards the player. Also visual clutter gets in the way of mnk, but not so much on controller bcs you can still track the enemy through a thermite let's says, which is hard on mnk. Both input should be separated because by essence they cannot play on a even ground.
Please I’m dumb so explain to me how aa reaction time is 0 while yours is 180 I get the computer aims down site for you but isn’t the animation the same speed once both press aim. Like I think you have to aim accurately more so than aa but how are you 180ms slower at aiming can you explain That to me
@@justobserving4862 when i see a player strafing, i need to react to it to adjust my crosshair, and the average human reaction time around 200ms. However, when you play controller and a player strafe, the aa pulls you toward him instantly (0ms)
@@slayerbestband9522 ooohh so like when a player moves sim assist moves with it, lol, nope I play console and that doesn’t happen at all😂my kill to death ratio would be way higher if that was true, have you played apex console, can you testify it’s true or seen some footage cause that’s definitely not what happens with me
@@justobserving4862 it's called rotationnal aim assist. From the apex comp reddit subject "Comprehensive Breakdown of Aim Assist: How it works & all related arguments" : Rotational AA is the much more contentious half of AA, and this is the part of AA that moves the reticle in a given direction without the player actually pushing their stick that way, which essentially means the AA is tracking for the player.
the problem on aim assist is more that it reacts instand in this game, en the way how the aim assist works in this game makes it broken. if you introduce an latency on activation of the aim assist it wud be more fair, just only a little latency to the activation of the aim assist wud change a lot, so only 50ms or even less en aim assist wil be less sticky then it is now. now its more like it can only move 40% of the speed of the targed with 0ms latency on activation when its on the targed. what i mean by "activation" is that the aim assist moves instandly with the targed/on the targed when aiming at the targed
Imo aim assit is strong but controller needs is they can tone it down a lilttle but dont listen to these pros play what imput that you want to play dont let other people tell you what to play on
It’s not going away. I think people need to understand this. Majority of the play base are controller. This game was released on controller systems. The only system that is optional is pc. On pc it’s a bit decreased from console. Keyboard has its advantages so does controller. Aim assist won’t go away. EA will cater to the money.
No one is asking for it to go away though. They just need to elevate the skill ceiling on controller and remove the crutch that is rotational aim assist. The only advantage MnK has is its long range capabilities, but in a game where fights are dictated on who wins when someone pushes you then AA has the full advantage. When dying you know exactly who is on roller or not based off of if it felt like you got aim botted, and it gets confirmed when they loot standing still LMAO
@@ItsMadzHDBro, have you played battlefield 2042 on console by any chance? The aiming is stupid bad and dog shit in that game for the very reason that rotational Aim Assist is not in that game. It feels incredibly bad, that game has crossplay and guess who dominates any and all controller players because aim is bad on console? PC players.
Some people just dont get how incredibly dogshit thumb sticks are. Thats why aim assist is here in the first place so removing is stupid. Just ban controller from competitive play because controller is meant to be easy
They really need to nerf 4-3 that shit is weirdly strong. I’m forced to use it on controller cause everyone I fight in the range is using it. The difference from 4-3 to 5-4 is astronomical, I don’t understand it. It has to be unintentional or idfk
I think Mande doesn’t understand controller. The inputs and their ceilings are completely different. A thumb stick will never be as good as a mouse. It can’t be. Aim assist is necessary
Having played mutiple shooters, and BR's. Apex is legit the only game I can tell whose on roller and whos not while getting shot at. I have 4600+ hours on the game mutiple 4ks and 20 bombs. But a level 50 default will walk like a bot and I will be deleted for getting too close. Its definitely frustrating and makes me get off the game. But it is what it us EA will always favor rollers.
The fact that if I know the enemy is a mnk player allows me to just ape and ego chall them is definitely a problem and 9/10 times I will just poop on them without even getting my armor cracked. The gameplay difference between both inputs is stupid. On mnk, I have to constantly play scared and always play like a pussy compared to me on controller where I just ego chall everything. It is mentally exhausting playing mnk to the point that I just switched, and oh my, it feels like a new game.
They're only looking at the situation through the lens of a professional player. I've died to professional apex competitive controller players & I've died to level 20 default skin lifelines on controller and other than movement/game sense there's no noticeable difference in how fast they kill mnk players. MnK players shouldn't know they got "controllered" before they even see the death recap or watch them stand still on a box. Someone with 20 hours on controller should not be able to do the same thing as a professionally signed competitive apex player much less what someone with thousands of hours on MnK can do. Hal switched because he said "it feels like I'm being cheated and this is the only way to win" The devs have openly admitted along with top tier roller pros that AA is too strong, easily abused and needs to be adjusted. Respawn won't though because the game is now overrun with people that have an overinflated sense of skill on .4 & .6 and if nerfed they'd leave the game and respawn will lose $. I understand that not every controller player wants to spend hundreds of hours aim training to get better to compete but MnK players shouldn't be punished for actually taking that time because devs want to "even the play field" unfairly for a quick buck.
Yeah the sad reality is that most people complaining about aim assist dont realize that respawn and ea is unfortunately a business and they're going to pick whichever input contributes more $ to the game, and rn its easily a 3-1 ratio of controller to mnk. No amount of complaining or even boycotting will ever change that fact.
@@dz8327 true its more of a way to cope cause mande knows that it wont be nerf because its business, but thats how humans are they cope to feel better. For me if they can't nerf rotational aim assist, just make guns a little bit meta towards MNK, like buff shotguns and nerf SMG's that would be a fresh change of meta
@@christian3suarez being prideful isnt a bad thing.
@@christian3suarez and you are baited for it cause thats what he wants, he wants drama, if you got hurt by his "saltiness and pridefulness" then you've been baited so hard
@@dz8327 the sad reality is that Apex now being 90% controller has 1/3rd the viewers, sponsors, & tournaments as well as player base than it did when it was predominantly MnK a few years back. So in light of that information even other controller players do not want to watch controller on Apex and the devs have driven the game into the ground. Appealing to causal AA abusers is their last ditch effort to save whatever they've got left. If they made the game fun, balanced, and fair it would be popular incidentally and therefor make $. It's fine if someone wants to be a controller player, what I don't get is the ego that comes with it. Taking the easy route usually means you don't get the bragging rights or attitude of someone who takes the time to develop a skill.
As an MNK player, I feel this at the deep level. I love MNK, and when I pop off it does in fact feel super rewarding.
The fact that I find myself even considering trying controller is problematic to me.
join the dark side 😈
@@lndex_1440fuck no, not gonna join the handholding brigade to feel a false sense of triumph when my built in software gets the kill. Remember every time you one clip someone, it isn’t you 🙂
Mande's right in how defeating it is to play MnK. I have thousands of MnK hours and I genuinely feel like I have no chance in 1v1 gun fights even against brand new players. I have to play the game so differently to even put up a fight.
I've accepted that aim assist will never get a direct nerf because the player base is 90% controller players and little Andy will never get a kill again and stop buying skins, but something has to be done to even the playing field in 1v1 gunfights. A good start would be making visual clutter and aim-punch actually affect controller players.
Let’s do this, I’ve been piling for about 2 months now, level 44
Send me your apex name let’s go to firing range, I’ve never played with a mnk before. I don’t see what you guys are talking about, I die all the time and can’t aim shit down
@@justobserving4862your opinion is that you suck?
Started on controller, moved to mnk. Every game I play against the same input is fun, every game I play against mixed inputs sucks. I just think games should be input based. Mnk vs. Mnk, controller vs controller. Keep it simple.
Doesn't matter complaints will stop...so it's worth it
There's a total of 3 mnk players left in the game
@@Sora-o yeah it sucks and kind of sad that 90% or Apex has turned into no skill aim assist players. But hey whatever you gotta do right... lmao
@@apexplayer868i dont know about other servers, but I play in asian server and i could say 80% of people i get team up with or killed by are mnk players. But im in low rank ofc so i cant say for higher rank.
@@resisthavokbittergaming9382you really said no skill😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 what a joke that you are.
"In every single other game that has controller support with no aim-assist, there's zero pro players"
Yea, there's a pretty simple and good reason for that; aim-assist doesn't belong in pro play. Other games knew this from the start and kept the playerbases separate because it's the most fair and makes the most sense.
Mande makes such a good point. Controller always feels like you’re popping off so it feels less rewarding. Ive been enjoying mnk a lot more cuz the satisfaction of popping off is great but then it’s terrible when you get rolled
Mande bitches too much he's my favorite player too so I'm just talking about this clip
Because you have to put in more effort. That's why it's more rewarding. No one wants to put in time and effort nowadays. They just want to pay their way through skins and have assists for everything
@@GetShrektMrKrabs I think majority of the players (not pro) play controller because it's what most of us played growing up with. I mean why would you want to go away from something you're comfortable with.
Bad take, this game was initially mnk dominant until crossplay showed everyone how good aim assist was. The mnk population on pc is almost non existent in higher ranks. I myself just couldnt take it anymore and switched to roller.@@OfficerOinksTTV
Sikezz says "if they removed aim assist, I'd literally go put in a job application somewhere". I wonder what he has to say to the hundreds/thousands of really good exceptional MnK players that get shafted out of ALGS teams or get no consideration because their spots all get filled by roller players who can bring more to the team with less effort/skill?
Fuck sakes, just split the inputs in ranked/comp. Leave pubs as casual mixed input lobbies. It's not fucking rocket science.
Most real comment I've ever seen on this debate
Also tired of hearing the argument about using a thumb, when there are other inputs available to use. Nah it's way easier and less effort for the player to just rely on aimbot.. I mean aim assist. Putting in that job application would take more time than the time it takes to have good aim after picking up a controller.
@@inski im thinking about showing up for the olympics in swimming trunks and demanding that i get a fifty meter head start amongst the other competitors.
Hey if apex has taught me anything its that competitive integrity is the least concern of competition and you should actively seek preferential treatment from
the organization!!
7:55 literally me, 2100+ hours on mnk since season 6 and I’m on a dual sense edge now, roller is just so consistent and with smg’s being so strong and close range fight happening the majority of the time I felt I couldn’t compete, now 50-100 hours later I’m getting crazy one clips around walls/through doors and 1v3’s I would’ve never gotten on mnk(Alc’s btw not 4-3)
finally someone who gets it. i been saying this for the past 2 years. apex is a close range game 90% of the time because of knockdown shields and the inability to shoot through the environment to finish kills. that means you gotta get close most of the time to finish a kill. and thats where aim assist shines. also because of how great apex's movement platform is, its just more fun to play close range. its crazy how some roller players fail to understand this when they literally look for an smg all game -.-
I have about 6k hours in fps games on MnK. 3k in Overwatch and 3k in Apex.
When I was trying to get better at Apex I recorded every death on MnK.
Most of the time I died when I had bad aim and lost a trade for example.
I tried controller for a month / 100+ hours and got from a 2-3kd to a 6kd+.
The sad thing is, I don't think I play better at all. I turn my brain off. I am
Running through Lobbys and getting on average one 20bomb a day.
I make more mistakes using a controller and don't even really think about what I'm doing.
The aim assist makes up for it though.
I went back to MnK because I miss the movement (I don't want to use Controller Steam Configs because imo it's cheating)
but pretty much stopped playing this game now.
your a angel. its always the same shit because guys like you criying into the internet but is it the truth? i played 4 years on console and hit pred and master and all this things. now im on pc and good MnK player can easy outplay a controller player. thats why i switched to mnk and so many things are easier than on controller. Aiming on mid and long range..Movement etc. and in bo3 bo4 and other games... all know with movement u can outplay 98% all players and thats why i think this discussion is stupid. 99% of you noobs using configs because u didnt invest time to get better
and all good controller player training with none aim assist a lot of time. i dont think i would lose with no aim assist vs so many peoples who are crying like u
@@MaxJustice1987 i cannot more hear that thats why i switched after 4 years to mnk
I've been saying to remove rotational aim assist but keep slow down aim assist on PC. Keep console as it is or just tone it down a bit and add an option to disable cross play on PC.
@@apexplayer868 they would have the option to turn on cross play if they can't find games.
@@apexplayer868problem is that the aim asisst problem is on pc and console are forced to crossplay anyway to find games, nerfing the pc aim assist or at least make it so your fps doesn't turn the aa in a cheat would fix everything
@@apexplayer868 they are not forced but if they dont active it they get 10+mins queue in europe at least so they kind of are anyway
And no they dont have aimbot lmfao if you see a console player with an op aa its literally a cronus thats all, the aim asisst for console players and also pc players with 60fps is useless, the aa problem is only with 120fps+ aa that tracks strafes for you and have inhuman reflexes/consistency ^^
You should consider getting informations before blaming people because even if there is a shit ton of cronus/strikepacks on console most of them are still easily killable
Not saying this in a mean way but console players are usually freekills at any level
@@apexplayer868 you are the one not understanding anything rn xD
Aim assist is an aimbot nerfed as hell so yes if u remove all the limiters its an aimbot, its made to help controller players on certain things and is working by looking at whats displayed in a certain region around ur crosshair, the more fps you have and the more infos it gets.
So even if 0.6 is IN THEORY better than 0.4 its only correct for 60fps/hz and 75hz is too low to notice a difference but when you go to 120fps/hz and over the pc aim asisst becomes LITERALLY better than a cronus on console, thats why people complain so much about aim asisst on pc and controller on pc and never console
FYI 120fps aa on pc literally tracks strafes for you, cancel horizontal recoil and have inhuman reflexes, it gives you a better consistency than a 20k hours mnk player training everyday and is better than any cheat on console
Noone care about console aa its just fair like this, the problem is not the aim asisst itself that is required its about how the fps improve it and make it better than a litteral cheat
But as example if 120fps was unlocked for next gen consoles the console aa would become a problem to if not nerfed
When i say they dont have aimbot i mean a aimbot looking aa, not the shitty 60fps one that barely do something ^^
@@apexplayer868 then you just proved to me u just want to whine for no reason, have a nice day ^^
good question: "Do you really feel like you're poppin' off?" Cuz thats what ive been wondering too. Looking at these boring, effortless clips of a controllerplayer just sliding the crosshair across the screen.
The short answer for most mid level controller players is yes.
Watching controller players play is like watching paint dry
Me as a mouse and keyboard player for 30 years will speak for all us mouse and keyboard players.
We understand controller players need aim assist to play a FPS game and let alone vs a player like me on mouse and keyboard I use to be a console controller player.
But when you have us on mouse and keyboard that is really good at what we do and are skill level and we lose 95% of the gun fights that should say something about how busted aim assist is now days with Crossplay.
We need to react to everything on the fly in a split second why we muti task with the mouse and keyboard all at the same time right hand aims, tracks and turns us left hand works the keyboard like a piano.
Pretend like you are typing but you can only can use your left hand and you can type 500 words a minute that's what we are doing not looking at the keyboard at all.
Why we aim and track there is so much more then having a giant desk and moving are arm back and forth up down side to side diagonal it's not that simple as controller players think it is if it was then there will be more mouse and keyboard players then there is controller players but there is not over 3 billion consoles controller players and what maybe 100k mouse and keyboard players and 90% of the players on PC are using a controller so they don't count.
But all my lobbies are controller players so yeah not fair for me doing all the work for a kill my self and I get killed by someone that just started playing video games they can beat me with little to no effort on there part because of the overpowered aim assist then it becomes like a cheat 0% reaction time and rotational aim assist witch it is soft aimbot that is what soft aimbot is all you controller players you can hook a mouse and keyboard up just like us on PC can hook a controller up no excuses give it a try and see out it turns out for you.
Controllers have 2 types of aim assist it's the bot build into the controller that aims and tracks players BUT it has bullet magnetism two it will be more fair if controllers did not have bullet magnetism you guys can keep your rotational aim assist take out bullet magnetism that is the true killer for controllers us on Mouse and Keyboard will not get a single hit marker unless the center dot on the crosshair is on the enemy but you guys can get hit marker and the center dot is far from touching the enemy facts.
How does bullet magnetism work?
Loosely speaking, Bullet Magnetism is a game mechanic that allows a shooter to be off-target by a set number of degrees and still have a shot register as a hit. When a round is fired, instead of it going where the shooter was aiming, it instead travels off-axis to impact the target.
Playing a video game using mouse and keyboard is not like using UA-cam or Google.
I never cared or even thought about Controller in years and the aim assist until Crossplay.
Crossplay ruined gaming for us mouse and keyboard players it really feels like a cheat look even Shroud said something about aim assist he said what I say Controllers vs Mouse and Keyboard is like night and day 1000% different is every whay and they should not be mixed together.
What killed gaming for me is Crossplay and the soft aimbot that is aim assist it 100% ruined competitive gaming for us mouse and keyboard players and it is 100% cheating.
I have been gaming from the start of video games and got into PC gaming 30 years ago and never played on the console and the controller again nothing but mouse and keyboard no matter what game I played so I got really good 1 of the best to do it I'm still really good.
My flicks and snaps are on another level and when I'm on fire for get about it you will not beat me anyone.
it feels like I have around 500k games or more in my gaming life under my belt I really can't put a number on it I played or tried just about them all and if it was a FPS game I played it or tried it trust that.
Just don't pin me on mouse and keyboard vs the world on controllers aim assist no 1 plays on mouse and keyboard anymore game dev's are building the games for controllers and porting them to mouse and keyboard try to fly in Warzone with a mouse and keyboard none of us M&K players do it's not built for mouse and keyboard facts it's all controller players.
Now go play Battlefield 1942 and fly the DC Mod was the best it's build for mouse and keyboard and not controller.
Aim assist when it is this overpowered is in no matter in what way, shape, or form you look at it Aim Assist is a crutch and training wheels and it carries every player to a win or ranked nothing more.
Controller Players love to defend Aim Assist "because it gives you skill" no it doesn't. It's a crutch plain and simple.
So all these tournaments do you see any mouse and keyboard players no they are a dying breed mouse and keyboard players we are the players built different well us really good players all you controller players are built the same aim assist is what makes you.
And all controller players say switch why should I change to controller when I been gaming on mouse and keyboard 30 years I like having my own set of skills at aiming, tracking, flicking, snapping and everything I do on the mouse and that is just some of the mouse skills using a keyboard is a different set of skills on the left hand I take pride in my kills when it is a insane kill but nothing new for me I been doing it 30 years.
You controller players hook a mouse and keyboard up to your console or PC and see for your self just how much different the 2 inputs really are it is like night and day 1000% different in everyway and should not be mixed together at all let alone in a competitive First Person Shooters.
I'm working for a kill why the 0% reaction time and rotational aim assist and bullet magnetism witch it really is soft aimbot does the work for you.
Console has a 0.6 value factor for aim assist, aka, 60% for every millisecond you aim at your target. On PC, that value is 0.4, or 40%. That's a different of 0.2, 20%, meaning console has a total of 50% higher aim assist value than PC does so shut up with PC has stronger aim assist
Controller are for little boys and mouse and keyboard is for the BIG DOGS..
I'm a TOP 1% Mouse and Keyboard player have been 30 years nothing new.
With Warzone when I shoot I can't see shit so much recoil, smoke, heat haze, dust effects all at the time it is blinding when us on mouse and keyboard need to see you to aim and track.
And I even said it back in the days I will destroy controller players if they ever was in my match so they Crossplayed games now days and gave controller players soft aimbot with 2 types of aim assist rotational aim assist with 0% reaction time and bullet magnetism that is what soft aimbot is but the true killer for controller players is bullet magnetism take out bullet magnetism you guys will need to have to aim more on target and not be 5 feet off target and still get a hit marker.
All you console controller players go play any game that is not Crossplay and come tell me how the aim assist is vs all Crossplay games it is like night and day it's that different.
They gave you guys crazy OP soft aimbot and they called it aim assist because of players like me on mouse and keyboard in all Crossplay games.
It is in the name aimbot had a baby and they called it aim assist it uses the same type of code to work that's why kill cams everyone looks like they are cheating that is what soft aimbot fine tuned looks like.
And Crossplay ruined competitive gaming and gaming point blank for me I'm working for all my kills and aim assist does the work for controller players just have ok or good centering maybe a little stick drift and aim assist does the hard work for you that is what a shooter is made off of aiming and tracking right.
Just give me Mouse and Keyboard only lobbies and I will be happy at least that way it all comes down to skill who is the better player who has the most set of skills wins games.
I just like it if they had to work as hard as I do for a kill or what ever the case is M&K vs M&K it all comes down to are own set of skills we no and learn and adapt to how other players are playing if they are good change your playstyle up on the fly you will win every time.
Us top 1% pro level M&K players some of us have multiple different playstyles it all depends on how the enemy team and players are playing before we can switch it up and play different and still be aggressive the aggressive don't change just the way I play will change..
Don't be mad at me for the facts Controller vs Mouse and Keyboard have 100% different mind sets on gaming.
We play to be the best and test are skills you play just to play in your bed.
How can anyone say different you will try.
Not all mouse and keyboard players are good only a select few of us that put time and years into it I'm a top 1% Mouse and Keyboard player.
There is my 2cents on the matter.
I agree with Kine. 0.3 should make things a whole lot better. Test it, if it's still a problem make it 0.275 or, 0.325 & keep going till both input has a fair chance.
Also i disagree with Sikezz, if they nerf AA from 0.4 people would not quit, they would just go back to playing on their preferred input. Cause rn it's tilted to rollers majority, cause most MnK just swapped or quit.
Yall making it sound like MNK doesn't stand a chance now. Which is bs. The numbers don't lie. The numbers show that MNK is still just as good if not better than controller.
Aim asist has been in the game since day 1 but MNK dominated like every season. Now some good console players bought a pc and things started to change MNK players became crybabies. Fact is aim asist has been the same since day one in Apex and MNK still dominated.
@@thesix4176 showing signs of heavy copium use.
@@thesix4176 It's been awhile since I laughed this hard. I really appreciate you :D
“Put the bow on the floor buff Pathfinder nerf Seer” bro got a wish list🤣💯
yes please !! bow on the ground and prowler to care package
Doubt they will put bow on the floor until something uses arrows again. They don't want to flood the loot pool
Lmao
Kine!!!! Dudes a W streamer putting Hawaii on the map
76 $outh dummeh
@@ashtrae7953 yeeesah
Without aim assist their performance would drop brutally. Aim assist = consistency and confidence. These roller beasts rarely miss more than 5 shots per clip. However, the best MnK players miss way more shots per clip.
You saying controller performance would go down if aim assist was removed is like saying the sky is blue. It’s a controller dude, of course it would suck without some level of AA.
@@duran9799 Ya, it's pretty obvious. And that's why it doesn't make sense to consider removing the only thing that brings competitiveness to controller players. They would turn into bots 🤣🤣
@@Lucas_Stradeus you are so bricked it’s not even funny. You just said the same thing like two different times just with different words.
@@duran9799 I did... Just defending controller players, saying something obvious to anyone who says aim assist is unfair. What's the problem then?
@@Lucas_Stradeusdefending controller players when they rely on aim assist more than they can control their own shots? lol. it only proves that controller players rely on that more than they should
this overwhelming effect is even higher for console players as ive seen people who are newer to the game and arent good absolutely dominate a good player then wiff for the next minute till they die, it’s especially apparent with certain guns, mainly car and flatline where bad console players doesnt even make it look like their trying to hit the enemy with them from a far then have almost perfect accuracy up close (ofc not always but it happens a lot)
best point made was at 7:41. i have thousands of hours on mnk but i still pick up controller in pubs if i just wanna dick around. its more consistent and less mentally demanding to use honestly. i have a higher skill ceiling on mnk but controller makes me play a lot more consistently throughout a whole pub game
Now imagine you where good on controller
I bought a roller to try it out couple months ago i dnt get how roller players say its hard especially on 4 3. I ran around like a bot and dropped 2k+ consistently on ranked diamond lobbies. I was laughing the entire time whenever i kept consistently one clipping people with the r99 i've come to terms that the roller community are just bots who like to the ego boost.
@@Astelch yep. I grew up playing controller and stopped at 2015. Picked it up to see if the muscle memory would kick in, but it didn't need to. Yes, I ran around like a bot with gun in hand and looted like a bot, but boy if someone came close to me I would beam them with any SMG or the Flatline they didn't stand a chance against someone with 30 minutes to an hour of controller play time
Bro said MnK player have less passion and don't play the game as much is wild 9:49 . Explain the amount of hours MnK players put into aim training and into the range. If they didn't have the passion they wouldn't do that. Shout out Mande the goat though!
I saw a clip of Verhulst trying to kill someone in the gravity cannon while flying through the air. They were moving fast enough that where their models actually were and where the AI thought they were was slightly off. The aim assist was dragging the crosshair to where the AI thought the enemy player was, and Verhulst physically COULD NOT MOVE HIS CROSSHAIR. The game is essentially playing itself, it’s really not faur
low skill controller player comment. for example whats your highest solo q rank, kills/dmg, kdr?@@kavid8120
@@kavid8120 imagine telling someone to get off their preferred input just to remove all the skill aspect from the game and use the crutch that is aim assist. Yikes
@@ItsMadzHD so stop complaining about it mad corny get gud nerd
@@ItsMadzHDforreal 😂😂
Great video and discussion on AA. It is sad to play against roller as a MnK player. It is no way fair you just walk in and die 9/10 times. I have 4000 hours in apex, 10k BR kills, and I can literally lose to any newbie one clip me. Just think for a moment in reverse, if every new MnK player can 1 clip a 4k hours roller player 9/10 time, can you feel how devastating is that now?
probably over 8k hours and 15k kills on octane. lost to a lvl 58 roller player today in a tdm. picked up a sniper and just observed his playing. actual bot. but when anyone gets into that range its game over. really ridiculous shit. all those thousands of hours to get beamed by AI using AI
also, when you practice as a mnk player. do 90 minute sessions, then take a 5 minute break where you close your eyes and do absolutley nothing. also only do maximu 3 x90 minute sessions a day. that is actually your brain's liimit for learning new things. when you over do it, you actually forget all of the muscle memory you just been practicing. i learned this on the huberman lab podcast, dr lumberman is professor at the standford medical schoiol with a specialization on eye sight and memory.
Def worth trying
@@kavid8120 ur still god kid
i wonder if skittle and doop will move back to controller, they both moved to mnk a while back when people felt like the inputs were more balanced.
Doop is now moving to controller 😢
Tbh as a controller player I wanted to see how aim assist would feel off and after like I wanna say 5-10 minutes. I got used to it and felt more free. When I turned aim assist back on, I could feel the sticky aim again. I like ALC and I wouldn’t mind no aim assist…
I play on ps4 by the way. Wish I could upgrade but the struggle is real
Try seige you have to play without aim assist and there's still people with cracked aim
@@jaydenchui5948 the game is way slower though so its easier to track people
AA doesn't have the same impact on Gen that it has on other roller player because his Sens is so astronomically HIGH, not to mention he plays it that way on a Linear curve. Which is why when he turns AA off he's still able to BEAM pretty consistantly.
ikr! Extessy once literally turns off his AA and play 5-6 times or more in pubs and still destroy mnk player lmao.
well yeah thats true but most controller players play on a low sense, and some are forced to (like myself) because the effects of stick drift are a lot more noticeable on high sens and all of my controllers have it, im 16 and pay for my own gaming shit so im not going to buy new rollers all the time
Gen is like a controller genius, 1 in a billion possibly...
It needs a nerf for sure, but they shouldnt fully remove it
I don't mind losing to good players
It's losing to a bad controler player that is annoying
It's those level 12 no skin running with their gun out lifelines/Bangalore that are nuts
@@Sora-o big facts there my guy. 8000 hours on mnk in apex alone to get beamed by bots with no movement, no game sense, nothing. take a 1v1 and lost every time. literally happened to me today in a tdm so i picked up a sniper and just watched the guys movement and how he plays. running with gun out with no direction. and if anything gets too close it dies. really opened my eyes to how strong AA is. i had to knwo where this guy was, plan a whole route to kill him and still almost died cause i got too close. once he was able to turn and get his crosshair on me it was time to side slide tap strafe and STILL left that fight with about 10hp even after having the jump on him. it made me sad honestly cause theres no skill in that, whereas im aim training to fight some dude who gets more than half his aim assisted by a software that is faster and more consistent than any human in a primarily close range game. really annoying and saddening /:
Made is dead on about how demotivated you get getting constantly 1 clipped up close. That’s exactly why I don’t play that much and that’s exactly why I stop playing when I do
Sounds like a skill issue to me 🤷♂️
Only hope is for the APAC MNK demons to save us from the rollers. I dnt think roller players know how hard it is to consistently beam someone 100-0 it takes like 10k+ hours on mnk to achieve that kind of talent. Roller players would see shroud highlights at his prime and call them lowlights thats how used they are to AA
@@marcosmendez8805 "SoUnD's LiKe A sKi-" Shut your oogabooga dumbass up with that shit. Getting 1 clipped by a roller with the game's help is not fun for anyone. It's brain dead for the person doing it and not fun for the person getting one clipped.
@@marcosmendez8805sounds like you let the software aim for you
yeah he is but I think he is also lost because you can tell he's starting to think the controller is unfair when it's the aim assist. I don't think he's qualified to comment on some thing regarding it because he genuinely believes controller raw input (for pros) is viable against MNK players.
mande fighting the good fight
It’s actually blown my mind that he seems oblivious to the fact roller is a flawed input for shooters without AA. It’s just not a precise input.
@@truevanpencil5403without AA pc is just better and I think most people know this 😅
@@truevanpencil5403 ask yourself why controllers and consoles exist in 2023? It's because majority of the people are NPC's.
@@joe-ug6fn pc is obv way better anyway next gen doesn’t even have stable 60fps atm 😂
Roller is a flawed device for precision. That’s a fact. It’s in its design.
@@BurnieTTV or they have a gf and ain’t neck beards. See…generalisations are retarded
I like how seige makes you play with no aim assist your skill is purely based on what sense you use and just practising your aim without aa but for apex people have been using it since the beginning it be hard to go to no aa but a set value on both platforms could be balanced
You chose the wrong game to compare lmao. Does R6 operators able to move as fast as pathfinder, octane, ult bloodhound, and other movements legends? Does it take an entire mag to kill an enemy?
R6 doesn’t have AA because it’s not required for controller to be able to play properly. You only need to track a few second while holding fire to kill someone player also not moving as fast as in apex
Everyone gets one tapped on siege anyway
1 clipping on controller: anticlimactic
1 clipping on mouse: lets fucking goooo broooo
they just need to rework aa, im pretty sure fn did that because it was op and from what I last saw the situation got better.
I’ve played cod my whole life n switched to pc 5 yrs ago n I know AA is Required but rotational AA is not. Rotational aa is faster than any human reaction time which makes it grossly unfair. This is the reason pc players have a better chance of winning a gunfight at range. There is no RAA involved at range.
"it's not balanced, especially for pro players" is kind of wrong. AA is actually stronger in casual play and the lower you go in MMR. The top MnK players and pros are good enough to overcome the AA advantage to an extent. But your average MnK player isn't. So it helps casual roller players more and the AA advantage is actually more significant outside of pro-play when it's just your average MnK player against average roller players. AA doesn't just need to be adjusted at the pro-level. But I still think splitting the inputs is the best solution because no value of AA will ever make it balanced. Both inputs are just too different mechanically and do things that other can't.
I think it is fine by tweaking the aim assist to 0.2. We should all know that AIMING is the thing what really makes the kill. Tap strafing and other MnK advantages cannot help players to get kills. This is why MnK players hate rollers, one clipped by rollers.
I agree
or just keep AA and give us mnk lobbies. I dnt enjoy playing bangalore but its the only way.
If u don’t think strafing and movement * don’t * help u in a fight I don’t know wat to tell u
@@ramirogonzalez7471 theres a reason lol. Bro is hardstuck plat with a roller and just scared nerfing it would make you show ur true rank of silver. Dnt take it from Mande that roller is OP. The best apex player Hal even proved his point. Roller is op but if EA aint gonna nerf it ima switch to it and win on it. Even Kine said Roller is stronger than MNK amongst other preds and u still deny it. Just come to terms that you're shit at apex its not hard; just humble urself and say the AA carries you.
@@Astelch Buddy, I’ll still one clip you thru bangs smoke. I have to aim w my thump you got a whole arm w button on that mouse too Lmaoo
Dude a pro player saying he’d get 30-0ed without aim assist is so sad
As an MnK player since week 1. This might be my last season of apex. I just can’t do it anymore. It’s so demotivating dying to controllers every single game. I’d say maybe 5% of the time I die to an MnK player. It’s time to stop pretending apex will every change. They make way too much money off of stupid people
just stick to roller, honestly switching to mnk is an L in the making
@@kindajacked5154 Communists would love competitive Apex: No individual skill or talent, everyone on the same 40% assisted aim, everyone blends in, noone is left behind. Just the competitive scene is bland and boring, but who cares?
I feel you man. Hope you find a game that appreciates your dedication and rewards the all the effort you put in fairly. It might be hard since live-service greed is rampant right now, but there will 100% be better, less greedy games than Apex in the future (the bar is very low).
@@marekmaly2337 lmao blame the devs
Fact is: MnK grind aim trainers to get rolled by controllers who don't know what kovaak is!!!
You mean people who have lives
@@M30-z7n also, yes lol
long story short 😂
Also Overwatch has no aim assist on PC, and there are controllers in top 500 in all roles. It's not impossible by any means, but it would be much more difficult and it would kill the casual scene.
Overwatch is very different though. The style of aiming is unlike apex and the game depends much less on aim in comparison. Top500 is also much easier to be in than ALGS Pro lobbies. I think Aim Assist is completely busted how it is rn but going pro in Apex w/o Aim Assist, is an impossible task if you don't have something like the best IGLing imaginable.
@@Sheriko I would argue aiming in Overwatch is overall more difficult as there are much more different styles of movement happening all at once. Also of course top 500 is different from ALGS, the exact same way Pred lobbies are different from OWL. No one made that comparison, I was just saying aiming without aim assist is completely possible. Also I’m not sure if you know but there is a few controller players participating in the Overwatch World Cup at the moment, as well as numerous contenders using roller as well.
@@MiniMcNellis didn't know controller's players competed in ow that's crazy. Respect to them. Overall aiming is more difficult in overwatch, yes. But you have characters that have no recoil, turrets, hitscan weapons , or most importantly, auto aim. Just play monkey, rein, brig, Moira, mercy....
@@MiniMcNellis I understood wrong then. I thought you mentioned the controller players being in top 500 in overwatch, negate the statement in the video saying that you couldn't go pro on controller in apex without aim assist. Because I understand the pro apex scene pretty much under algs, I thought you wanted to compare t500 and algs
Mb
@@Sheriko oh no you’re totally fine, I worded it very poorly that’s on me. However about your point with characters with no recoil or auto aim, yes that’s true.. but that’s also to balance the rapid movements on short cooldowns during the fights. Also I really wish I could just play whoever was the easiest, but when you’re in the t500 ladder, you HAVE to play certain heroes in order to win the game. There are a few exceptions to that, but most one tricks in the t500 ladder are also contenders players as well.
To summarize where this debate has settled at over the years:
MnK is superior to controller in every regard except for medium to close range aiming/tracking in which controller is vastly superior. As the majority of fighting happens at close range, controller is extremely strong and thus nearly all successful pro teams have at least one controller player. These players would still be pro level if aim assist were nerfed so a slight nerf to aim assist, at least on PC, seems to be in order. However, Respawn is unlikely to do this given the number of controller players in the general player base.
And it seems like every reasonable conversation about aim assist ends up concluding this at this point.
so to summarize your comment; controller is superior to mnk in every regard except for long distance
@@kindajacked5154and movement, get it.
@@m3kbeatz movement… controller can do it all man. Name it, tap strafing neo strafing super glides mantle jumps etc. all easily done on controller in fact it’s easier on controller than mnk, do you “get it” yet?
@@kindajacked5154 mnk def easier movement to me.
@@kindajacked5154controller can't tap strafe without configs which isn't allowed in comp.
Controller can't move while looting. Controller can't reload near a down teammate or door. Controller actually have to learn the recoil patterns. Get it?
at the end of the day, the playing field should be even, both inputs should have a place in comp/ranked/pubs whatever tf it is. But the problem with that is, thats not really achievable, the reason is, if smgs were meta, controller is gonna smoke mnk, but if snipers, scouts, shotguns, ars are meta then mnk will be slightly stronger than controller, especially if you nerf aa, the weapons listed above will only become harder. But at the end of that day aa has too many benefits in apex because apex is poorly balanced/created. Too much visual clutter, too much aim punch, too many situations where controller will strive better than mnk. And then you have to take into account the "movement" advantages that mnk has, but if majority console players played in mnk lobbies they would realize that most mnk players have the exact same movement as controller players because mnk players as a majority are not that great, same with the controller players but the aa helps the controller players where as mnk has nothing helping the mnk players. But at the end of the day this should not stop either input from trying to be as best as they can possibly be.
no, the playing field SHOULD NOT be even. This is completely false. One input has an ENTIRE arm and the other is a thumbstick. These inputs do not belong together period. EA/Respawn is grouping them together for money. That is all. This comes down to greed. Aim assist takes away the integrity of competition. Shooters should only be raw input. That allows for the skill ceiling to be true raw talent, and nothing else.
Roller meta has gotten so big the past seasons despite no real AA changes imo to the loadout changes.
Since I started when seer came out, we’ve had 2 new insanely good spray guns added (Nem and CAR), r99 has been buffed from being OP to a joke to back to being the best gun, the prowler is easily the best floor smg rn, and only real nerf was to 301.
They need to add another low TTK flick gun like a new shotgun or sniper to A) provide mnk a new weapon to balance out sprays B) dilute the floor loot with guns rollers can’t immediately melt ppl with.
In Battlefield 4 competitive on Xbox and PS4 everybody used no rotation with slow down aimassist and people were aiming a hell of a lot better against people with aim assist and people on mouse and keyboard as well it also has to do with the aim mechanics of the game and how they use the sticks. They have to put a stability type slow down aim assist so you can track good with your thumbs
@jamesgum2134 it died in 2015 semi correct. People still scrim on Xbox, ps4 and pc. I've done a few on pc with ogs. The movement tech is actually better in a few ways apex is not and a lot of people know if you understand the pro movement tech. If apex had sharper jumping instead of floaty jumping with proper air control. Tap strafe is good but bf3-bf4-bfh you didn't need to. I know u know what I'm saying. Combine tap strafe with sharper jumps carrying momentum could be a game changer
@@MaxJustice1987 me too bro
How many pros swap to MNK? Case closed. Aim Assist is broken if most professionals that were MNK moved to roller. Shits stupid.
SkittleCakes
My question is why people are getting rewarded for disabling themselves. You chose the worse input, why should you get crutches (Aim assist) for choosing to use a controller? You literally disabled yourself. If you can use a mouse and keyboard then use them, right?
@@cadenceew7933 because it removes 1 less thing to focus on. Recoil control takes a lot of effort and it isnt worth it. Imperial Hal talked about that it allows him to focus more on other things than recoil and he might as well abuse it.
@@ItzzWarfare Right, but I'm arguing that if it's harder to play the game with a controller, why make it easier? Especially if you can choose to play with a mouse and keyboard. On PC having a controller with aim assist is like disabling yourself and getting rewarded for it. I don't understand why aim assist even exists for PC players who have the option of using the better input whenever they want, unlike console players.
i have to agree that with more and more people playing on controller in PC 80% of the fights are engaged at close range where they shine.
Honestly aim assist also kind of sucks, I wish I can aim without but it’s literally not possible. The degree of precision is insane for only one ligament in your thumb to be in control off
sikes never heard of that guy that got radiant multiple times on controller in valorant, there are ways to outplay even the best aimer's they just aren't put into a situation where they have to use their brain like in games with no aim assist
I'm on PC and I play MNK and never touched roller. But I have to say for how badly I have been controllered by 0.6ers. I think that playing on a console must be the most boring experience possible. Press button - thing in front of you dies. yay. fun.
It just seem like it would be a zero challenge experience. If you see them first, they die. If they see you first, you die. No outplay potential, nothing. I would love to see the player retention for PC MNK players vs Console players. Surely they quit out of pure boredom.
As a controller player im tired of controller players. I want to be the only one left
Agreed, no one would notice a nerf to AA if it went to .3 overall. Couldn’t they make aim assist feel like MNK so that people genuinely have skill on both inputs and the better player wins? I wonder if they controller just ends up being ALCs
.3 sounds cool imo
Tbh I just want a healthy game 😂 and if AA takes a hit honestly that’s not a big deal but just balance it and I’m a happy guy
The only things they could to to make AA feel like MNK is remove the 0ms reaction time and add a variable sensitivity / slowdown so controller can flick back after the crosshair is off the target.
I always thought of .4 or .6 as a sort of cone for aim assist to engage. I imagined it as targets being 140% or 160% of their original size to compensate for controller's terrible precision. That's why I don't see any point in changing the value unless it's console. Just change the reaction time so we're playing against a human.
@@axtra9561 I think they are gonna nerf consoles AA, but bring it to pc controller AA @.3. I agree with everything your saying 💯
To be fair the 0.3 and 0.6 values everybody is talking about are not the real problem with AA its the rotational aspect to it with the instant reaction as axtra was saying. This is the thing that makes AA broken against MNK. If the rotational aspect of AA was nerfed such that the player had to react to the direction change before the AA would change direction so that you are infact playing against a human instead of a piece of code. That change may even mean that AA has to get stronger in those traditional values of 0.3 and 0.6.
reasons why nobody plays competetive COD on MNK. That game was built for controller. To end this debate make a seperate leage for controller player and APEX has been a close range fight ever since, its like a swordfight but with guns.
End of debate indeed. Pc players shouldn’t even be in controller player lobbies in the first place. When crossplay came to be I can promise you every single controller player universally wanted to be matched between consoles. No console player has EVER wanted a pc player in their lobbies.
Can anyone tell me when was the last time a MnK player sprawled out of nowhere and was already playing in ALGS (at LAN). All that in the span of a few weeks/months.
I'm just curious. That's all.
Either add it to PC or remove it completely. No type of input should be getting software assistance over another.
tbh. there isnt a lot of esports where controller is making it above water when it comes to money. the fact this game is helping us controller players a chance to make serious money again
Less skillful input should never be rewarded. Just be thankful that controller exists. Controllers shouldn't be a thing. It only exists because of NPC's.
You can tell no aim assist is not accurate just by moving an analog on a menu. You can’t precisely place the cursor exactly where you want. It’s close to where you want but not exact which would fuck you in fights.
"Controller players come in, they're super passionate, all they do is play the game" "A majority of MnK players don't even play the game nearly as much or have zero passion compared to controller players"
That wasn't the case for the first two years of the game's life on PC.
Yea, I'd be more passionate and play the game more if I was playing with a significant advantage and getting great results. Also, there's no doubt that playing on controller is less physically taxing than on MnK so of course they have to spend less time warming up and can be more consistent over long sessions. I personally just don't want to go back to playing on a controller just for Apex, fuck me I guess.
Mande is right, roller is to good at the highest level and should be nerfed which would lead to pubs doing the same thing or at least having the option to play a lower AA. Maybe it can kick in in plat and have an option for it in pubs.
I play on roller and I am not the greatest (high plat, haven’t played much this season). I get rolled a lot more lately but a huge factor in all of this is how strong subs are they shouldn’t be as strong in mid range fights.
I would have to get better at the game to verify this. But I feel like my lobbies are currently the most disjointed of an experience for the mnk vs roller experience. If you are a pro on MNK its fair to say your aim is pretty goated. So you stand a good chance against a controller player. If you are on your first hour of controller then you probably cant hit anything at all. But there is this moment where your raw aim becomes good enough that with the 'help' of AA all your bullets just hit. While the mnk player doesn't even stand a chance because their dog crap aim gets no assist(I don't want any assist).
@@sparkyenergia if I understand you correctly, the reason you can’t completely remove aim assist from roller is the tracking on the sticks. It’ll never and I mean never be able to do what a mouse can do. Even with saying that I think mnk gets some aim assist but it’s low.
@@HeyJoe. Mouse doesn't get a single ounce of aim assist. There is nothing there to bail out your reaction speed or poor tracking.
What he is saying is that there is a huge gap in the intermediate levels of gameplay where a intermediate MnK player without thousands of hours of practice, will get rolled over and over and over by controllers with 20 hours of experience because the tracking levels rotational aim assist currently give you are on par with the top 1% of mouse and keyboard aimers. It's even more oppressive than at the pro level, and sadly many pros do not realize this and think it's only a pro level issue. Unless you are very mechanically gifted, you will get rolled for many months longer starting MnK vs controller.
No one is advocating for a *complete* removal of aim assist, but the current system of rotational aim is completely overpowered - to a 20 year MnK player such as myself, roller clips frequently look like cheats rather than human gameplay.
7:39 100percent true. I have 3.2k hours in apex. played this season hit masters, got battlepass lvl 110 and stopped playing, because ranked is no fun, pubs is no fun and controller players are simple better. I am stagnating, not getting better and losing fun playing. I am thinking of switching to controller, although I have never played any fps on controller. I am willed to learn tho, just for the fun of it and also just to have sth new to do while playing apex. because on mnk it is boring and frustrating some times.
i play on console so most of the time im locked in console lobbies till that weird bug on the mix tape mode where I'd get matched with pc players other than that its aim assist vs aim assist on console unless its long ranged then pc would usually be better or just grabbing a sniper/ nemesis
As a controller player, I would actually like it, even as it is 0.6 on console, as I have played since season 0 and when casually playing pubs, currently on 5-3, I keep losing more of 1v1 against me players who have slower camera, questioning if I was the problem or what 😂
Somehow it feels as if I miss half a mag, when enimies hit everything.
The aa problem is not on console dont worry, even the 60fps aa sucks on pc but its when you go over 120fps that it starts being an aimbot (tracks strafes for you, reduce horizontal recoil, have inhuman reflex and consistency....)
@@Ruka_??? No that's just not true
@@Sora-o it is tho and always has been
@@Sora-o like if you seriously think the console aa is the problem because they have .6 you missed the whole point of the aa debate, it was never about the console AA, even when the debate started ^^
Play on pc with 120hz/fps+ and a low/mid sens and the aa will track direction changes for you and for a long time enough to react(and since it overwrite commands for a short duration its even more op) plus control horizontal recoil because of smoothing and will give you a consistency that people with 20k hours on mnk can't even dream about after a few hundred hours
Ever wondered why controller players on pc especially past diamond are oneclipping 9/10 times while at the same time they can't hit a single shot or even control their recoil decently past 30m ? Guess what, its cus they can't do shit without the software
Not saying that all controller players are like that but its easily 80%+ of players past diamond/master wouldnt do a third of what they are actually doing with 60fps aim assist ^^
There is still skilled players like extessy, gen, velhust, snipedown etc etc that would fuck most players even without aa but most players are heavily carried by the aa at higher ranks, everyone have ay least 144hz if not 240 ^^
Like im sorry if you thought console players were hated or feared at all but its quite the opposite, only idiots with no informations think console aa is op xD
Remove aim assist and remove all movement tech for mnk players
or don't cater to poor people and NPC's who can't play MNK. Remove all support for controller.
Or just allow controller to tap strafe. No mnk player would argue giving controller move movement tech if there was an AA nerf
Mande is clueless if he thinks Gen would be pro without AA lmao
Exactly
Apex roller pros who could play MnK deserve no respect. Hal and Gen included. All pro players are part of the problem because they're not doing enough to get EA/Respawn to make the necessary changes to make both playerbases happy. The MnK pro's have teammates who play roller and roller player don't want to nerf themselves, so all the pros seem to be scared of change even if it's for the better.
Just split the inputs in ranked/comp. Leave pubs as casual mixed input lobbies. It's not rocket science.
If Respawn separated Ranked play by inputs and gave MnK players the option to have MnK-only lobbies, I guarantee you A LOT of the MnK players that switched to roller would switch back and A LOT of the MnK players that straight up quit would come back. Because for the vast majority of people, if you know how to play on MnK, Apex is 100 times more fun compared to on roller. But getting ass-blasted on PC by AA from the now majority roller playerbase really sours the whole experience these days.
Apex's playerbase is huge. Queue times would be fine with split queues. And if anything, they should let us queue in the firing range and let us be in the firing range during queue.
"Aim assist should just have slow down" yeah...that's exactly what aim assist started as. It's only in recent years that these devs have started turning aim assist into borderline aim bot that tracks for you.
bro how long is their queue holy shit😂😂
if aim assist was nerfed and peopled cried. it would only prove how much controllers rely on it. just sayin.
AA is all they have thats why
Do you know hard it is to aim without aim assist?
@@johnirving3084 you mean its hard to play the game with 100% of your brain?
@@muhi5140 🤣
@@muhi5140 okay then buddy lmao
Sikezz saying he would apply for a job without AA only confirms what Mande's dad said: "If you need help, you are not a pro."
that doesn't make sense. Pros dont need help?
@@hhhgh5641 the help is the aim assist obviously. He is saying he would look for other job without it.
@@marekmaly2337 i know. “If you need help, you are not a pro” is such a dumb take. If you wanna be a pro, you need a lot of help. That statement just doesn’t make sense.
@@hhhgh5641 No, if you are a pro, you don't rely on any external help outside of your skill. Talk about coaches and vod review and what not, that's not help, that's practice.
@@marekmaly2337 Any feedback that you Recieve from other people which makes you better is help. A lot of pros get external help. You think lebron doesn’t get any external help? Coaching is literally helping . If coaching isn’t helping then I don’t know what is.
Hals not a pro according to your logic cause he needed help from raven to fix his macro lol.
Arent nrg looking for a coach as well to HELP them with the game?
I just have fun playing on my ps4 I'd suck without aim assist, I really think they should just make the option to disable cross play and make it so you dont face controller on PC either
Bro just please put mnk players with mnk players and roller with roller so I can stop seeing people complaining about aim assist this honestly makes the game not even fun to play
Genburten has shown his tracking skills without AA and he still wouldn't miss a single shot.
I don’t think as would be as dominant if they overhauled the visuals of the game to make it more clear
Sikez is right with the ttk. I used to rock no aim assist in cod 24/7 no problem and tried doing it in apex and it was 10x harder with the movement and health its impossible to stay consistent. Its possible but its way harder to track and land every shot on apex. Cod is way easier without aim assist than apex. Now i switch on with regular weapons and turn it off when using snipers in cod, aim assist ruins my aim when sniping when playing cod. But i need the aim assist in apex. Im sure this is just me tho i also broke my finger once and the aim assist was impossible to control so i stopped using it
Mnk lowkey easy tho bc of the joystick on controller it’s definitely harder to aim when you barely move the stick and your whole screen moves more than it should. And im not being biased its just from the experience ive had with aim assist and trying to aim with a broken finger. I also use max sens on cod and 6/5 on apex so i cant speak for everyone its just my preference when using aim assist
controller players are grinding more simply because of the stamina benefit. you can literally sit on ur ass all day and play, on kbm u gotta sit up right all day and get tired over time......
Gamers coming together to remove reasons for input arguments is a beautiful thing to see
No matter what they going to cry
low skill players are fixated on the crying, all of us masters/pred players simply stay on topic
I must say titanfall was developed with the same aim assist system with ALC’s and everything i dont think its going anywhere
Extessy dropped a 4K 20 with Aim Assist off. If beams look like cheating, there is something wrong. I use both inputs and I would accept 0.2 aim assist.
A slowdown only would not work. AA is in to balance out the differences in both inputs. Games have tried a slowdown only and it just makes aiming feel worse then if it was off. It only creates inconsistencies and doesn't help. There has never been a pro controller player in any fps game without rotational. Could you hit pred without it? Sure! granted at the same time you can without doing any damage..
The fact is rotational is needed for controller. Yes, it should be turned down to .3 on all platforms but it is needed.
Even as of now in tournaments with controller at .4 there are still more mnk players in most events. The gap isnt as big as ppl are making it out to be. Turning it down to .3 or .2 is the only reasonably way to balance it out without full on killing the input.
Just switched to controller recently and its definitely the move if you want to be more consistent, the aim assist is just too good compared to mnk which has no aim assist.
is it THAT good ? is it worth to try ? because i never play controller (even dont own one).. i think the last time i touch controller is on 2017 when playing fifa with my friends.. thats it
@@inspiritGalaxy It's pretty strong man. I literally bought a controller just to play apex and rocket league lol. Controllers in apex have an aim assist feature that automatically smoothes and makes adjustments onto your target unlike mnk where you have to have full control. You lose some movement and armor swaps but the aim assist benefit definitely overrides that unless you superglide and tap strafe more than you shoot your gun lol. I'd say it's worth a try at least for apex if you play it a lot.
@@nolanb4165 damn !! its so tempting 💀
@@nolanb4165 I tried using it a few times but the aim assist doesn't seem to work for me, or it works but very miniscule compared to what I watched from streamers (I'm on PC btw). Or there are some controller input config in-game that I need to do? Coz rlly dont know sh*t about them......
@@jeremyg2236 nah, no need for any settings or configs, the built-in assists are all you need.
controller is a terrible input device, imo quite hard to play apex with. but you dont need to be good at playing controller. you just need to figure out how to use aimassist. watch a video.
i tried it aswell and it worked - i was absolute ass and beaming for 200 (video uploaded if youre interested).
but im staying on mnk bcs its way more fun and skillful :)
ngl i would quit this game and play cod if they took out aim assist
Ppl gotta realize tho not every controller player abuses aim assist when you play high sensitivity aim assist does nothing. But I do agree most ppl tho I feel like they should drop the console aim assist to .4 like on pc. Almost everybody just runs 4-3 or some other slow sens n they hit every shot it’s ridiculous
The problem is, aside from AA being OP or not, everytime I lose to controllers, it gets me starting to think that I lost because of AA. This kind of shit actually makes such a bad game experience for MnK players. The truth could have been that the controller player was better than me and that's why he beat me, but still AA makes me not admit it and whine about AA. It's like a never-ending vicious cycle.
Another point, I’ll tell you what, remove tap strafe etc and all the movement tech that is impossible on controller, make shields swapping the same across the board for controller and MnK players adjust how small of a micro adjustments MnK can make and then you can remove AA since the playing field will then be level
no ones saying to remove aa
No one is saying to remove AA or remove movement. Movement is such a small percentage of even MNK players. It’s easy to look at the top players. the issue with aim assist it Timbuck Timmy with 49 hours in apex can beat TTVSweatMASTER9000 with 3900+ hours in apex due to the fact Tim is playing on a controller and sweat master is on MNK. But without AA the game would be only MNK like the reverse situation rn. Why would anybody play roller at that point. Just nerf it or rework aim assist not remove it
holy you play console, terrible take
@@kindajacked5154No that is a perfectly logical take. You guys want the one thing that helps us deal with the insurmountable advantages you have then you guys should lose every single advantage you have against controllers.
@@Lovell_STI 0 idea where this made up situation people speak of has come from, I promise you now a silver / gold controller player is not killing a master / Pred MnK player in a straight up 1vs1 and you’d be stupid to think otherwise
the WHOLE ARM to aim for mnk players almost ends the debate for me, but ofc aim assist need to be nerfed a bit to balance things
only low skill controller players make the "whole arm" argument, for example whats your highest solo q rank, kills/dmg, kdr?
@@kindajacked5154 lmao
@@kindajacked5154 is this a serious question?
@@jpmachado_ yes, genuine question. It’s very common for low skill low elo underperforming hardstuck controller players to make the “whole arm” argument hence my first comment
@@jpmachado_ all of us masters/pred controller players are aware the “whole arm” argument is invalid. They have their whole arm, desk space, mouse on 2d plane, high performance, etc yet we still beat them with our thumbs. Our input is op bro 💀
Mnk players crying about controller is getting so old at this point
If you're a good controller player, you would be advantaged to have aim-assist nerfed. That way, when you get in a fight against what will most likely be another roller player, whoever has the best aim wins. Right now, for the most part it's whoever has the best TTK or the first shot. Good controller players, those who spent time in the range WILL stay good if they lower AA. Although the bad ones won't be able to get those 120+ dmg sprays with a no magazine CAR on a tap-strafing horizon... they'll need to take the time, get in the range and practice their mechanics.
Is there a way to buff mnk? like can't they also get some kind of aim compensation?
Nobody wants that. If you’re an MnK player it’s because you enjoy the idea of your skill being the defining factor. When it comes to competitive games, skill should be the number 1 thing that separates the greats from the mid players. When all the greats are being assisted, they’re not that great anymore. In any other sport they ban certain things that would assist the athlete too much, and the reason is because they want the skill to shine. It’s also the reason why if an MnK player were to use a program that gave them aim assist, they would get banned. Aim assist is just inherently unfair and completely destroys the competitive integrity of a skill based competitive game.
Lou is also a successful roller convert after the lcq qual
Why do MnK pros/streamers not understand how difficult it is to aim without aim assist on a controller, it would honestly be easier to pick up MnK and learn it. On MnK you have better movements, quicker looting / shield swaps, better aim for mid/long range ability to key bind soooo many things yet controller is better at close range and all of a sudden that’s a problem. This whole argument stems from MnK players believing that gaming is made for MnK only and controller is this thing that’s new and shouldn’t exists and it’s honestly sad af neither input is a “master race”
Good comment. You're one of the few guys who have common sense
AA reaction time is 0 ms, my reaction time is 180ms, instant flawless reaction time will always have the upper hand on me. On mnk I have to anticipate the direction change while on controller you don't because you are instantly pulled towards the player. Also visual clutter gets in the way of mnk, but not so much on controller bcs you can still track the enemy through a thermite let's says, which is hard on mnk. Both input should be separated because by essence they cannot play on a even ground.
Please I’m dumb so explain to me how aa reaction time is 0 while yours is 180
I get the computer aims down site for you but isn’t the animation the same speed once both press aim. Like I think you have to aim accurately more so than aa but how are you 180ms slower at aiming can you explain That to me
@@justobserving4862 when i see a player strafing, i need to react to it to adjust my crosshair, and the average human reaction time around 200ms. However, when you play controller and a player strafe, the aa pulls you toward him instantly (0ms)
@@slayerbestband9522 ooohh so like when a player moves sim assist moves with it, lol, nope I play console and that doesn’t happen at all😂my kill to death ratio would be way higher if that was true, have you played apex console, can you testify it’s true or seen some footage cause that’s definitely not what happens with me
@@justobserving4862 it's called rotationnal aim assist. From the apex comp reddit subject "Comprehensive Breakdown of Aim Assist: How it works & all related arguments" : Rotational AA is the much more contentious half of AA, and this is the part of AA that moves the reticle in a given direction without the player actually pushing their stick that way, which essentially means the AA is tracking for the player.
the problem on aim assist is more that it reacts instand in this game, en the way how the aim assist works in this game makes it broken. if you introduce an latency on activation of the aim assist it wud be more fair, just only a little latency to the activation of the aim assist wud change a lot, so only 50ms or even less en aim assist wil be less sticky then it is now. now its more like it can only move 40% of the speed of the targed with 0ms latency on activation when its on the targed. what i mean by "activation" is that the aim assist moves instandly with the targed/on the targed when aiming at the targed
Imo aim assit is strong but controller needs is they can tone it down a lilttle but dont listen to these pros play what imput that you want to play dont let other people tell you what to play on
It’s not going away. I think people need to understand this. Majority of the play base are controller. This game was released on controller systems. The only system that is optional is pc. On pc it’s a bit decreased from console. Keyboard has its advantages so does controller. Aim assist won’t go away. EA will cater to the money.
No one is asking for it to go away though. They just need to elevate the skill ceiling on controller and remove the crutch that is rotational aim assist.
The only advantage MnK has is its long range capabilities, but in a game where fights are dictated on who wins when someone pushes you then AA has the full advantage. When dying you know exactly who is on roller or not based off of if it felt like you got aim botted, and it gets confirmed when they loot standing still LMAO
@@ItsMadzHDBro, have you played battlefield 2042 on console by any chance? The aiming is stupid bad and dog shit in that game for the very reason that rotational Aim Assist is not in that game. It feels incredibly bad, that game has crossplay and guess who dominates any and all controller players because aim is bad on console? PC players.
True
@@Hero_Of_Time94different ttk different range engagement different recoil on guns etc.
@@Sora-o Well yes but that doesn’t really hold much to the fact that pc dominates that game because console players are at a heavy disadvantage.
Some people just dont get how incredibly dogshit thumb sticks are. Thats why aim assist is here in the first place so removing is stupid. Just ban controller from competitive play because controller is meant to be easy
Why not keep pro league MnK only, the same way you are required to have a PC
They really need to nerf 4-3 that shit is weirdly strong. I’m forced to use it on controller cause everyone I fight in the range is using it. The difference from 4-3 to 5-4 is astronomical, I don’t understand it. It has to be unintentional or idfk
i consider switching to 43 linear all the time lmao
I wish my aim was assisted more. Especially after playing Destiny where bullet magnetism is crazy
I think Mande doesn’t understand controller. The inputs and their ceilings are completely different. A thumb stick will never be as good as a mouse. It can’t be. Aim assist is necessary
I agree
Having played mutiple shooters, and BR's. Apex is legit the only game I can tell whose on roller and whos not while getting shot at. I have 4600+ hours on the game mutiple 4ks and 20 bombs. But a level 50 default will walk like a bot and I will be deleted for getting too close. Its definitely frustrating and makes me get off the game. But it is what it us EA will always favor rollers.
This game has so many diff elements and it is hard to make it fair. The only thing is to seperate controller and mnk lobbies.
The fact that if I know the enemy is a mnk player allows me to just ape and ego chall them is definitely a problem and 9/10 times I will just poop on them without even getting my armor cracked. The gameplay difference between both inputs is stupid. On mnk, I have to constantly play scared and always play like a pussy compared to me on controller where I just ego chall everything. It is mentally exhausting playing mnk to the point that I just switched, and oh my, it feels like a new game.