Late BASF / EMTEC Chrome Extra / Chrome Super Type 2 - True Chrome or True Trash?

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  • Опубліковано 27 сер 2024

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  • @seeyouinmist3924
    @seeyouinmist3924 2 роки тому +5

    spending this evening going through some of Tony's videos - this one is classic CC, informative and fun, loved watching it again

  • @pressrolls
    @pressrolls 3 роки тому +4

    I worked in the marketing department for BASF in Bedford Massachusetts up until 1993 when they pulled out of the US market (well, actually we pivoted towards office supplies as the days of tape use was coming to an end. That move failed.) We manufactured 90% of the tape there (audio and video) until approximately 1990 when operations were shut down. At that point all tape products (both audio and video) were sourced from Saehan Korea. Germany still produced the Maxima II and the "art version" of the Maxima II named La Linea. I could answer nearly any question about the original line of audio tapes. (Incidentally, I moved to MAXELL in New Jersey in 1993)..............................PS I conducted the "BASF CHROME CHALLENGE" a listening test where the prize was a brand new pair of Sennheisers all around the United States......at Tower Records, The Good Guys, Sam Goody, Coconuts, and trade shows like the CES NARM and New Music Seminar. If anybody here took that challenge I would love to hear! Especially where. Chances are, I met you.

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  3 роки тому

      Loads of good insight there. Saehan eh? Nice info. Keep in touch. Would be nice to do some videos with people who were actively part of companies and get them to show any docs, memorabilia and recollections with the world...

    • @pressrolls
      @pressrolls 3 роки тому +3

      @@CassetteComeback I would love to if possible. Saehan was our go to company when we began sourcing product. Until then, we manufactured almost all of our US product line in Bedford MA. Only a few items like VHS-C and a couple of other oddball formats like DAT and DCC came from Germany. Everything else was made in Massachusetts. I think I have an original compendium here somewhere breaking down specs for all the audio line. It was written by Volker Vomend (sp?) who worked at BASF Germany. Great guy and fun to be around at trade shows. (The Germans were wild!) When I moved to MAXELL I was so disappointed. It was nothing like working for a German company. No fun at all. Work work work and no play whatsoever. I would still love to hear from anybody who took the Chrome Challenge.

  • @randyharrigan4790
    @randyharrigan4790 5 років тому +2

    I used 2 BASF FEi ferro extra type i's from the mid 90's that i used back then when i was a kid. They both recorded almost flawlessly in my technics m63. After all those years and 7 years in the hot/cold shed those tapes shocked me they recorded better than all my others including: maxells, tdk's, fuji's and sony's, memorexes and more the basf beat them all! They both recorded like new tapes!! No dropouts! Amazing tapes👌

  • @SchuchDesigns
    @SchuchDesigns 5 років тому +8

    From what I read Wilhelm says the CEII (called Chrome Plus in the duplicator world) was a single layer mixture of 85% chrome, 15% ferric-cobalt, at least at the beginning of the EMTEC takeover. It may have changed subsequently. The "supers" were double coated.
    To quote him:
    On the whole, the Chrome Plus was superior to pure chrome in terms of MOL and lower distortion without sacrificing any bias noise advantages of pure chrome. It was an excellent single-coat tape, and only the TPII ferric-cobalt could compete with it in BASF's line-up for all around performance. The double-coated ChromeSupers and Chrome Maxima had a dip in the mid-range sensitivity that always bothered me because Dolby NR would increase the dip a bit more. On the other hand, the Super and the Maxima were about the only cassette tapes that could get by without noise reduction--extremely low bias and modulation noise and very high MOL and SOL.

    • @s.g.3042
      @s.g.3042 4 роки тому +1

      I second this from my own experience, in Germany BASF has the best price / quality ratio - so I always end up buying BASF Chrome Super II NOS in bulk + even preowned they age extremely well - the difference is clearly audible. Even between Chrome Super and Chrome Extra. So I recommend out of the BASF range to buy Chrome Super II only - for me anyday. They do have the "built-in" Hi-Fi EQ a.k.a. that infamous "bathtub dip" in the middle frequencies, which I personally like and what most people automatically perceive as quality sound

  • @johnstark5324
    @johnstark5324 5 років тому +4

    Every time Wilhelm speaks at Tapeheads I listen. I have yet to find someone more knowledgeable about BASF of tape in general.

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  5 років тому

      Indeed. No one can get the facts right better than someone who was actually there.

  • @FrightfulAccountant
    @FrightfulAccountant 5 років тому +6

    The Lidl tapes :p Not my favorites but price/quality they were such a great deal I still regret I never stuck them up when they were so widly available. They went for Maxell UR money towards the end. They recorded just fine on any cheap deck. I guess man only starts missing sth when it is no longer around.

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  5 років тому +8

      Like Joni Mitchell sang: "You don't know what you got til it's gone"

  • @Defensive_Wounds
    @Defensive_Wounds 5 років тому +2

    I liked those tapes in my old decks back in the 90s, the BASF ones.

  • @erwindewit4073
    @erwindewit4073 5 років тому +5

    Cool, I have 133 cassettes with these cheap anonymous Shells And this better early 90s tape in them (1.60 euros each with case). I really like them a lot! Oh, I checked. I play records, cassettes (from used 120 minutes Maxell UR (the green wraps) to the 30 or so Sony Metal-XR’s, and usually digital from 112 kbit to 24/192, whatever the music is on. Sure, I prefer the better sounding stuff if there is a choice, but I play and enjoy it all 😀 Am I a non typical audiophile or just someone who likes music? 😂 Oh wait, I also play minidiscs. I just like physical audio.. And after seeing this I decided to collect sealed tapes. Just one of each, I have 250 usable tapes as it is already 😀

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  5 років тому +3

      They are little works of art. I also love MiniDisc. It should be about the music. I'd rather listen to a bad recording of Queen than an amazing recording of Ed Sheeran.

    • @erwindewit4073
      @erwindewit4073 5 років тому +2

      Cassette Comeback Absolutely! It’s also a bit of fun, isn’t it? Still, I bought a used dac (my previous one was 16 years old and pretty crappy). I do like how it sounds, but I really liked the Tropic of Cancer (Restless Idylls) cassette I played after the 24 bit flac.. And a noisy scratchy LP after that. I love music! In whatever form that may be..

  • @ralphreinhardt6020
    @ralphreinhardt6020 5 років тому +3

    Another well done video sir, keep up the good work.👍👍

  • @bjrntorearstein6347
    @bjrntorearstein6347 4 роки тому +1

    Do I like these too? Bet I do! No fluttery SMs, neutral sounding tape that can take sgnal like nobody´s business and a more than decent shell. These, in short, do not have any of the niggles the classic BASFs had. And I love them for just that. Look good, way more flexible as to where and what they suit in terms of deck. But to get the best out of them you HAVE to know what you´re doing. Not as good as a Denon or That´s, but not very far off.

  • @adrianredodo
    @adrianredodo 5 років тому +2

    5:14 BASF CR-E-II very good and best price.Very interesting (and amazing) conclussion

  • @thehunterofdeath2180
    @thehunterofdeath2180 2 роки тому +1

    Nice tape the first black n second I'm looking for that tape nice good video tony 👍😎

  • @ahah1785
    @ahah1785 4 роки тому +2

    Lets get this into a tape dack! Nice! No hiss... -Steve

  • @analytical_computer
    @analytical_computer 2 роки тому +1

    The name of the song is Rasdep - Illimité

  • @robertdrinkall8947
    @robertdrinkall8947 4 роки тому +1

    The early BASF CRO2 tapes were the best cassette tape you could buy other than Metal. BASF were the only company allowed to make True Chrome Dioxide tape (a Dupont development) however Sony did have a license to make it for a while, until safety laws stopped production in Japan. it was a very dangerous process & only the German government would allow BASF/Dupont to manufacture it. I fear we'll never see the like of it again!

  • @BigKelvPark
    @BigKelvPark 5 років тому +2

    There are some of the CSII in the wild that perform as pure chrome. I bought a batch of unbranded C74 and C90. The C74 do perform as pure chrome but the C90 as regular type II.

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  5 років тому +1

      Hey Big Kelv. When you say unbranded, you mean you got them from a duplicator like tapeline?

    • @BigKelvPark
      @BigKelvPark 5 років тому +2

      They would appear to have been rejects from the shell printing process. The shells and tape are as they should be (just missing the branding). They came supplied without j cards. Fleabay sometimes comes up trumps. I had around a hundred of the 74s and 50 of of the 90s. They have been great for mix tapes. I'm not sure how many I have left. There is a thread on TH about them and my conclusions verified by ANT (who also bought a pile).

  • @sergeybukreev7371
    @sergeybukreev7371 3 роки тому +1

    I have exactly the same problem with BASF Chrome Extra II - on side A left channel is lower, however, side B does not have this issue.

  • @josh8178
    @josh8178 5 років тому +1

    I love that Aiwa deck you use. I have an Ad-F810 and it makes the exact same sound when I insert a tape so i'm guessing the same mech haha. I have no inbuilt test tones though but can manually adjust bias fine and rec sensitivity so it's not all bad :)

    • @jasejj
      @jasejj 5 років тому +1

      The AD-F850 is essentially the same unit as this without the Dolby S and no test tones, and the 810 was just the previous model of the 850. I'm pretty sure the 850 and 810 have the same mech as I recently changed over the belts for the former using instructions for the latter so yes it's much the same deck.

    • @walterharriman
      @walterharriman 5 років тому +1

      Josh8178 My Aiwa Excelia XK-007 has the same Anti-Modulation Tape Stabiliser system and makes the same sound as well.

  • @powercut68
    @powercut68 4 роки тому +1

    I have chrome super2 (hidden hubs version)which is in a differnt case and j card the gold writing is slighty differant on the shell and it stinks of wax crayons. Bias and level would suggest its pure chrome.

  • @markchandler7085
    @markchandler7085 4 роки тому

    I recently found a BASF Ferro Extra 1 cassette that a mate gave me years ago. Didn't often buy BASF so thought I'd give it a go and didn't expect much. BUT after using auto cal on my Sony deck I've got to say it sounded pretty amazing! The treble response really surprised me and it captured far more detail than I expected!

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  4 роки тому +1

      Their Type 1 were always good, it's their pure chrome that needed care.

    • @markchandler7085
      @markchandler7085 4 роки тому

      @@CassetteComeback it blew the ubiquitous TDK D out of the water lol ;)

  • @pauledwards2817
    @pauledwards2817 5 років тому +5

    Well I always remember BASF being nicely made and suspected they would sound great but why always such low bias and so always sounded so dull on everything. I had forgotten the smell, hmm
    .

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  5 років тому +1

      That's pure chrome proper BASF. I have a video about them that explains why they sounded dull.

    • @robertdrinkall8947
      @robertdrinkall8947 4 роки тому +2

      Correct Bias was the key, I had a deck adjusted just for them, sounded great, but playing back on another deck was often a problem. Plus they eat heads! Still it's the price we pay for quality.😊

    • @alexsicko
      @alexsicko 3 роки тому

      @@robertdrinkall8947 exactly my thought! its not so universal sadly, its good if you ONLY have those type of tapes, it doesnt translate well on other decks..

  • @filip8297
    @filip8297 5 років тому

    I have two chrome super C 60 and C90. Both are offering excellent accuracy and clarity. The only thing that bothered me at these chrome dioxide cassettes was that Chrome extra was C 60 and C90 90/135 meters long while chrome super C 60 and C90 was 88/133 meters long. I don't understand why chrome extra was two meters longer than chrome super. Perhaps it was because chrome super has a double layer while chrome extra has a single layer. Who knows?

  • @jimmy.deejay
    @jimmy.deejay 9 місяців тому

    I have a small bunch of "BASF CS II Chrome Super - Position High" with hidden reels, they stink of wax crayons) and for the life of me I cannot get a decent bias or level on my Japanese decks. Any suggestion on what specific deck I could buy and use for them?

  • @SFtheGreat
    @SFtheGreat 4 роки тому

    I only use BASF chrome super/extra/maxima and Ferro Super/extra, i can't recall if i have a 1 Ferro maxima or not, though I also have some MPIV, but I haven't used them yet, the sealed 120 minute one is staing that way forever.

  • @alexanderthomas542
    @alexanderthomas542 5 років тому +1

    Emtek has best bass I've come across

  • @DESTRUCTO1617
    @DESTRUCTO1617 5 місяців тому

    hmm i have a cobalt chrome extra ii and it starts to distort if i record higher than 0...

  • @BogoEN
    @BogoEN 5 років тому

    Great video - these seem to be the most readily available typeii’s from Europe, so great to cover them. I do have a question for you @Cassette Comeback : did you ever try the ATR or NAC rebranded BASF type ii tapes? I’m sure you know they were supposedly from the final pancake BASF stock and were sold until recently when NAC and ATR finally ran out. Do you have any experience with or thoughts on these cassettes? Are they from the same supply as these cobalt ferrics?

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  5 років тому +1

      Not tried them personally, but I believe the Tudor CR Cassettes I sell and have done a video on, have the same tape in them. They're very good.

    • @BogoEN
      @BogoEN 5 років тому

      Cassette Comeback Thanks for letting me know, I’ll check it out now!

  • @kennynvake4hve584
    @kennynvake4hve584 4 роки тому +1

    Can you see the safety mechanism in the BASF's...

  • @PrankZabba
    @PrankZabba 5 років тому +1

    i love the smell of those tapes.

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  5 років тому

      These don't smell of anything to me...

    • @macdaniel6029
      @macdaniel6029 5 років тому +1

      BASF Chrome tapes smell like vomit... I remember buying my first Chrome Maxima in the 90s... after unwrapping I was confused, but every chrome tape had this disgusting smell.
      Ferro tapes smelled neutral.

    • @kingdhansak
      @kingdhansak 5 років тому

      I can remember the BASF vomit smell. Takes me back to the 90s!!

  • @MrocznyTechnik
    @MrocznyTechnik 5 років тому

    What those Aiwas do for calibration? Does they put 1kHz in one channel and 10kHz in the other? Then you must to set bias to have 10kHz and 1kHz at the same level? Could you please play few seconds on those calibration tones from the casette after calibration?

  • @GustoTheGamer
    @GustoTheGamer 5 років тому +1

    Please do a Philips type 3 tape video

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  5 років тому +1

      Might be hard as I don't have any nor have a deck that can record on them 😁

  • @cubdukat
    @cubdukat 4 роки тому

    So if we're looking for true chrome late-model BASF, if they appear in that kind of wrapping whether they have the EMTEC logo or not, avoid like the plague?
    BTW, speaking of true chrome BASF, how stable are the older ones? I recently bought some blue-shell Chrome Extras (1989?) and then I read about how some people are finding that they're having to give them more bias because the chrome's deteriorating.

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  4 роки тому

      I'm finding single coat pure chromes, like the Extra, from the 80s are getting harder to calibrate. The EMTEC Fe/Co Type 2 should not be avoided at all...unless you REALLY want pure chrome.

  • @JBGLX
    @JBGLX Рік тому

    Very nice comparision , but you’re aware , aren’t you , that we viewers cannot hear any difference thru youtube sound picked up with mic of a phone or handycam .
    Anyway thank you for your effort .

  • @analytical_computer
    @analytical_computer 4 роки тому +1

    Do someone know the name of the track?

  • @shelxp
    @shelxp 4 роки тому +1

    What's the track? It's a banger!!!

  • @m80116
    @m80116 Рік тому

    All of those BASF/EMTEC on display except the 80s CR-E II are IMHO based on chromium dioxide pigments. If they smell crayon, if they are darker than ferricobalts, then they're chrome based.
    Even the historical BASF CR-S II had a touch of blue under certain lighting and I've never seen a cobalt doped ferric tape having that shade of blue like in these BASF. I'd expect old BASF not to calibrate on Japanese decks because of degradation, they should be able to calibrate in the outer end of the controls' scale if still in good conditions.
    What I've learned with historical chrome tapes is that they do not age well, all might be degraded to some extent. Some can be recorded over at a reduced MOL and SOL with good results, some will degrade and distort the sound no matter how low the input level is. If the cassette window is milky expect the worst. Print through appears higher than other tape formulas.
    Early BASF had probably the best mechanism of the whole industry with SM guiding arms, they wind up aligned to tight tolerance and the spools appear smoother even during mixed usage. A great bonus to users storing their cassettes laying flat.

  • @alexanderthomas542
    @alexanderthomas542 5 років тому +1

    1ST ONE TOP

  • @seeyouinmist3924
    @seeyouinmist3924 5 років тому

    Hi Tony, is the general rule then? i.e. BASF branded only = true chrome, but if EMTEC is on the packaging anywhere, its not a true chrome?

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  5 років тому

      Nope. There are no rules with BASF from the 90s onwards. The shells and hubs can be random, but the tape is usually always good.

    • @seeyouinmist3924
      @seeyouinmist3924 5 років тому

      vintagecassettes.com/_info/basf_formulations_2.htmI did find this info on some of the BASF formulations.

  • @s.g.3042
    @s.g.3042 4 роки тому +1

    EMTEC no good.
    Use the old "Chrome Super II" from BASF only! Better yet Chrome Maxima.
    Or at least "BASF Chrome Extra II" which is already a lower grade tape, but still are ok.
    Older BASF SM Chromdioxid (utter rubbish) and Chromdioxid II being just ok-ish tops.
    Of course, when you have a Yamaha KX with Playtrim and Dolby S or Pioneer Super BLE ALCA decks, let alone a Revox 215 / Nac Dragon - virtually any tape would sound at least good.

  • @Synthematix
    @Synthematix 5 років тому +4

    If the shells good quality the tape usually is too, prime example is those horrid chinese tapes

    • @todaysbestmix
      @todaysbestmix 5 років тому +3

      Chinese tape cassettes as in brands like Kaytape, Kingsonic, Justine, Cloud 7, Prince Harlech, Sim Cassette, Standard etc? I was just a kid in the 80's and loved my cassette recorder. Pocket money was tight so bought these cheap cassettes for mostly 50p each (the Justine tapes came in a 3 pack without cases for 50p in a local shop). Anyway... Most failed or sounded awful. Real cheap Ferric tapes.
      Then, when I started working, stepped-up to BASF cassettes. Don't think one ever failed on me. The SM (security mechanism) thing was pretty good and keeping the reels smooth and ridge-free. Sound quality was a million times better too.

  • @PuccaLover83
    @PuccaLover83 Рік тому

    Pure Chrome cassette were built by few companies but mainly BASF, till about '95-'96 when they started substituting with cobalt doped ferric. When EMTEC took place there was a total caos with different lines for same tape or a storic tape names like Extra, Super or Maxima which could have inside whatever pigment was available. Anyway the history has proven that cobalt was the right way: pure chrome has suffered much the ageing. NOS chromes still sealed and well stored have lost 2 to 3 dB of sensitivity and now can't be recorded more hotter than 0 (200nWb/m ansi), where tapes much used in car stereos, boomboxes (all we used them to play tapes!!) now have lost till 7-8 dB of sensitivity so they can't be calibrated. They are essentially useless, need very low bias to have a bit of treble. Just today I tried to record to a 80s Chromdioxid II - record went bad, with extremely low level and no highs. Tried to play another tape and sound was dark the same. I immediately suspected a fault on my deck but soon inspected the head and found it sticked with black material: the chromdioxid pigment has detached from plastic, there was places of tape without material, literally flaking, pealing off. Will not use that cassette anymore.

  • @MrMicrolin
    @MrMicrolin 5 років тому

    Done see any fuji tapes yet

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  5 років тому

      I did one in my type one video, but I plan on doing one dedicated to Fuji at some point.

  • @ahah1785
    @ahah1785 4 роки тому +1

    Man this sucks so much..i remember when good tapes were sold in stores...now i have to hunt in attics and thrift stores...i fcking hate it...sorry this makes me kinda upset...

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  4 роки тому

      You can buy all the cassettes you want, with a few clicks...but they don't come cheap this way.

  • @AVadim
    @AVadim 4 роки тому

    2:15 - This shell looks, like it was made in Russia, on RONEeS plant in Rostov-on-Don.
    static.auction.ru/offer_images/2016/03/27/11/big/D/drdxcEHeVL4/kasseta_ronees_cd_60_f.jpg
    a.d-cd.net/8514fb9s-1920.jpg

    • @CassetteComeback
      @CassetteComeback  4 роки тому +1

      It's not the same as that, but who knows, i might be. That Rones is pretty cool looking too.

  • @paianis
    @paianis 5 років тому

    Some later EMTECs used crappy hubs.

  • @lucas1prime
    @lucas1prime 5 років тому

    If you use Dolby B while recording the hiss will disappear!!! (Y) After recording play with Dolby C! ;)

  • @TB303
    @TB303 5 років тому +3

    FIRST!!