What Did Gnostic Christians Believe?
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- What is Gnosticism?
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Next watch "Mandaeism: The Last Gnostic Religion?": ua-cam.com/video/DMx_JKJbvJI/v-deo.html
Primitive backward people making God the best they knew - using their King/Dictator as a template - "We must get down on our knees, swear loyalty & obedience, beg for his mercy and hope for a reward"
Little did they know that the so-called for more advanced, intelligent and educated of the 21st century would be blindly following these primitive ideas of theirs
If they could see us they would die laughing at our stupidity!
@@LarzGustafsson God made in the image of the local King/Dictator - the Dictator will reward us with the good life if we beg & grovel to him, obey him & praise him
That is how you got your job, right? your promotion?
And then there are those who got ahead by polishing their boss's shoes, praising him at every opportunity?
What do you call them?
@@ramaraksha01 bruh, I love how you are proud of your incomplete knowledge, and I appreciate how you state your incorrect analogies in such a convincing way,
Well, God is not like a leader or dictator,
According to the Bible, he is the creator of everything, not a ruler over everything,
He rules because He has created everything, not because He is a ruler,
And He doesn't want our praise, and see you can curse Him every day and every single moment of your life, it will not harm him even a bit,
Boss is not timeless, spaceless or immaterial, neither is a dictator,
God is not made,
If you are criticizing the Christian God, you don't assume things that are not proven by Christian texts, God is not made, so you are wrong in the very beginning,
And you can't explain so many things that exist or have happened, and this makes God the God of gaps,
Now lemme clear that as well, something that He is, is personal and intelligent, God is not filling gaps, but is the perfect explanation for the things you can't explain,
Thanks
P.S. Loving people is so primitive
@@ramaraksha01 ⁰0i
@@ramaraksha01 444
Wow, so "baby-eaters" is a really traditional insult to throw at one's ideological opponents. I feel so connected with my ancestors!
Eat gluten-free babies. They're less fattening.
@ckorpi88ify When you were a baby, were you gluten free? Or were you consumed before the glutens were chemically strained out?
@ckorpi88ify You're taking all this with more than the usual grain of salt, I see.
Was thinking the same thing. Sounds a lot like what Christians slandered the Jews with (and occasionally still do).
It's a traditional Christian insult... Which makes me wonder... If the pyschological trap of accusing others of what you yourself are doing is valid, then the christian church is dark indeed.
"A Gnostikoi is a nasty boi." -Epiphanius, 4th century C.E.
Gnostikoi is plural. Gnostikos is singular.
@@GlazeBattleBorn Fascinating. I know that. The joke is in English, so...
@@GlazeBattleBorn Good point. He also misspelled "boy," and his quote is almost certainly not real. OP must be very embarrassed.
@@CrownRock1 N
LOL
Gnostics primarily believed that each person should have their own experience of God (or anything else). Dogma and doctrine were held to be undesirable.
The same thing that Satanists believe
@@haydencapps According to the church that managed to elbow all the others out of the limelight, yes.
In reality, no.
@Being Human According to the church that managed to elbow all the others out of the limelight, yes.
In reality, no.
So Gnostics were truly good Americans!
Eww sounds too much free thinking, let's have none of that,
-Vatican and Orthodox Church.
That fedora in the background troubles me
Robot fedora
Lol, yeah didn't age well
What? He is like a religious Indiana Jones, looking for divine treasures.
It is gnostic fedora made from babies
snake approaching Eve to help her achieve enlightenment, "m'lady"
I think you forgot the most important thing about the Gnostics... "Gnosis" means experiential knowledge. The Gnostics were more interested in actual communion, or experience of God than a belief system or doctrine. This is why they were called Gnostics.
Narcissism of small differences? I don't buy that for a moment. They represented radically different approaches to spirituality. The orthodoxy which was more interested in hierarchy and control wouldn't abide with their anti authoritarian egalitarian, mystical neighbors, so they basically hunted them down and exterminated them.
Yeah unfortunately this video missed the number one most important aspect of Gnosticism and it's true defining attribute: complete and total distrust of authority. THAT is why there was no "Church of Gnosticism", why all the various writings emphasise different things and tell different stories, and most importantly that is why the were so hated and feared. They could see that the Church was cynical and corrupt to the core, focused only on temporal power and population control and had no interest in providing spiritual enlightenment to the masses. They saw that the only path to spiritual fulfillment was a personal and internal one, and people claiming to be religious authorities were just one more stumbling block in the road.
@@dimmerdimadma The concept of spiritual growth is still not well known .. It seems to me that the church was about fear and control right from the get go.
P Heresy is that why Romans KILLED EVERYONE TO SPREAD CATHOLICISM?
The Romans used Catholicism as a noble lie/scam to save their dying empire in the 300s AD, they made up a religion based on the growing-popular cult of Jesus. Taking some things they believed, mixing it with Pagan beliefs. It became a tool for power, to funnel money and political influence from Northern Europe to Rome. Worked until Martin Luther had to come along and muck it all up. Heh.
Heresy literally means in Greek : " ABLE TO CHOOSE"
@Harry Waddington so, religion?
@Harry Waddington id even be as bold as to claim "all of the big world religions" ;)
Raven no, Catholicism is the true religion
@@Sicilianus Islam is the only true religion
@@avijeetification Pastafarianism is the true religion.
"When soul became aware, her behavior transformed. She looked for foods that give life. She learned about her light as she went about stripping off this world, while her true garment clothed her within. She learned about her depth, and ran into her fold, while her shepherd stood at the door. In return for all the shame and scorn she received in the world, she received ten thousand times the grace and glory."
Authoritative Teaching
It's less about good vs evil and more about truth vs illusion
I find it doubtful you will read this message after years but thank you for a quick summary. I have been pouring over so much gnostic information I wanted someone to help it all make sense. Thank you so very much!
What is your conclusion? I can help .
& point you to some information that
will make it very clear if you still search.
@@epiphanyx3705 I'd like to know if the the nag hammadi is older than the bible
@@airscoutborne
If you want to work I can
point you to good teacher on
esoteric Christianity, anything
else is mere curiosity .
Gnosticism, to me, comes across as being at high risk of being a foundation for death cults.
Check out mythvison and gnostic informant
you have NO IDEA how much I appreciate you for doing this video AND actually offering something to read and google to go on the search
What I love about your videos is, I have no idea what you believe. You keep it factual and about the subject matter. So many of my professors have a difficult time keeping their opinions away from the classroom. I don't study religuon, but political science. I'm there to learn not to be be preached to. Keep it up.
If he is anything like myself, the greater the amount of research, the less I am beholden to any one ideal or belief system.
@@elementneon yeah it's all a bunch of cope
The only thing worth believing is that nobody exists in purpose nobody belongs anywhere everybody's gonna die.
Yes! That is soooo important! It really jars me when there is obvious bias! I want to make up my own mind! I don’t want to be told what to think, just how to think! 🙏
@@michaelmayhem350 what is it worth
My master's thesis in social psychology was very close to this: I studied the Black Sheep Effect (which is the measurably harsher punishments we give to deviant in-group members than to outgroup members). I'd be happy to forward you some articles on that, if you're interested! :)
Are you Brazilian? What's the name of the article, I thought it sounds interesting
Sounds awesome! Bet it was great
I’m interested
I'm interested 🙏🏽
Slavery is bad… mmmmmkay!
I’ve flirted with Gnosticism, but finding out that the monad is important in it really struck me. I’ve been fascinated with the concept of the monad from mathematics
This point that you made. Is why I am confident that Gnostics were Christian philosophers
And I've flirted with women who would then Monad me
@@ceesno9955yes? Did you even read the writings of Tertullian? Even back then, close to two thousand years ago, philosophical ideas had been used to warp the texts.
That is, they add philosophical ideas and propose truths veiled, etc.
@@mojus2890all of the texts are warped, Matthew, Mark and Peter are all postulating Ebionitism, Luke John and Paul are clearly trying to establish the Proto-Orthodoxy, the heretical texts are siding with the Gnostics, most are not even written by who they say they are, everyone is biased.
[Hebrews 11
Names of God Bible
3 Faith convinces us that God created the world through his word. This means what can be seen was made by something that could not be seen.]
Is the Monad (first emanation of God) the zero-dimensional space holding our quarks together with the Strong Nuclear Force?
Leibniz's "The Monadology" is a philosophical work that explores the concept of monads as indivisible, immaterial substances that make up the fabric of reality. While the notion of monads is primarily philosophical and not directly related to modern physics, I can attempt to draw a connection between some of Leibniz's ideas and the strong nuclear force holding quarks together. Here are seven points of connection you could consider:
1) Indivisibility and Unity: Leibniz's monads are indivisible and lack parts. In a similar vein, quarks are elementary particles, indivisible according to our current understanding, and are the building blocks of hadrons, the particles held together by the strong force.
2) Interconnectedness: Leibniz's monads are interconnected, each reflecting the entire universe from its own perspective. In particle physics, the strong force binds quarks within hadrons, creating a complex interconnected system of particles.
3) Inherent Properties: Monads possess inherent perceptions and appetitions. In particle physics, quarks are associated with intrinsic properties like color charge, which influences their interactions through the strong force.
4) Harmony: Leibniz describes monads as creating harmony in the universe. Similarly, the strong nuclear force maintains stability within atomic nuclei by balancing the repulsive electromagnetic forces between positively charged protons.
5) Pre-established Harmony: Leibniz's concept of pre-established harmony suggests that everything is synchronized by design. In particle physics, the strong force ensures that quarks interact in ways that give rise to stable particles, exhibiting a form of "harmony" in their interactions.
6) Non-Mechanical Interaction: Leibniz's monads interact non-mechanically through perceptions. In the context of the strong force, quarks interact through the exchange of gluons, which doesn't follow classical mechanical rules but rather the principles of quantum field theory.
7) Holism: Leibniz's emphasis on the holistic nature of reality could be compared to the way quarks contribute to the overall structure and behavior of hadrons through their interactions mediated by the strong force.
Question:
What is the difference between the postulated soul (no spatial extension, zero size and exact location only) and quarks (mass with no size measured in Megaelectron Volts)?
The creator of this video is an incredibly gifted and intelligent public speaker. Please continue to make similar videos in the future.
Totally agree.
You are impressed by this? You know nothimg.
Thanks for a super informative video. "The Narcissism of Small Differences" was a great thing to highlight. Bless you!
Nostasism...
In fact, that's why there are several thousand Christian denominations today. Because the NoSD makes them split over trivialities, again and again and again.
@@KaiHenningsen Makes perfect sense because these religious groups are competing between each other for attention of the same demographic group, using very similar tools (very similar theology). It's like Pepsi fights against Coca-Cola, not Mars, for example :-)
We can’t assume orthodoxy but many secular historians assume the equal validity of diverse Christian viewpoints. It doesn’t seem necessary to examine weather there was an orthodox original view point of Christianity. Even from a non Christian perspective logic would suggest there might be.
I’m not sure it’s a great thing to highlight. Is the difference between a God incarnate who suffered for human sin a small difference from a dualistic God who saves with secret knowledge? He along with many history channel historians assume each diverse
Viewpoint is equal to the next except the orthodox viewpoint that muscled its way to victory. Gnostic texts take a non Christian theology and puts it into a Christian story. It’s just not correct to suggest that gnostic view were there from the beginning.
00:48 The gnostics don't believe in an afterlife. They believe in a heaven, and think 3-dimensional existence is hell.
Gnosticism is about practicing spirituality, not faith in the hereafter.
@Deepstateagenda21lgbtqsatanicilluminatipopelover The eternal Home from which we came in pre-existence of this world. It's called the Pleroma or Supernal Abode.
@Deepstateagenda21lgbtqsatanicilluminatipopelover But unlike mainstream Christianity, there was a pre-existence, a before-life.
@Deepstateagenda21lgbtqsatanicilluminatipopelover Ask a mainstream Christian pastor or priest if there is a pre-existence of the soul. They will vehemently oppose that idea. They will say there is ONLY an afterlife. If you don't think that's significant, then you don't have any understanding of the Gnostic philosophy, but you are entitled to whatever you wish.
When Jesus told Nicodemus in order to be saved, one must be "born again", that has been mistranslated. It means "born from above"; i.e., pre-existing. There are those who have not pre-existed, and there are those who are "born from below"; in fact, these two groups make up the majority in this world.
Wrong !
Helios do you know what “after” means? Just wondering
The Gnostics were the ones who thought "eating Christ " was absurd
Right, but why do today's Gnostic churches practice it?
They also ate children.
@@enriquepenanieto4398 Where is the proof of that?
@@doriesse824 I think he's one of those polemics trying to compare the Gnostics to the Mystery Babylon religion.
They lied... and were decieved by the dragon. All an attempt to discredit the true faith.. "what? eat christ?..thats barbaric and stupid." But Christ himself explained that very openly in the bible... it doesnt mean to actually EAT HIM. Its symbolic.
When one leaves out "compassion" one will never find the truth or understand they even found the truth. For only true honest compassion will know a liar.
Nicely said.👍
Be wary of those who claim to have the path to truth. Be even more wary of those who claim large groups of others are liars.
@@skaetur1 Only compassion will find your true self. Indeed be wary of those who claim any authority, even in the name of Man's God, where the child has named their Father. People do not understand, a relationship with God is very personal. If one ever finds God, they will be just that one and God, no others. Only the one can choose to be with the true Creator for the true Creator can not choose the one. No man, women,book or words will show you the way, for the corruption has beat you to the truth and thus corrupted any truth on this earth. Believe me if the true creator wanted authority, this world would be so much different and we would not be having this kind of conversation ever.
@@skaetur1 what about mainstream religions
@@1Infeqaul1 Excellent comment. Thank you for posting.
Thanks!
I used to ask myself this question: How could Adam and Eve be held morally accountable for eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil since they didn`t know the difference between good and evil before they ate the fruit? I later realized that the god of the Adam and Eve story wasn`t the good God, but the unjust and evil demiurge who wanted Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge (gnosis) so they will remain ignorant of themselves and worship him.
you're on the right track
☝️💯🙏
That opinion is what's ignorant. Adam was commanded. This is clearly stated. THAT is the issue--rebellion--just as it has been since then. He gives them the right way to live and they choose their own. She literally "did what was right in her own eyes" as was said of Israel time and time and time and time again. The entire point is that you're free to choose: life and blessing or death and curses. And i guess we see what you like better.
@@jenna2431 But how would Adam and Eve know that obeying God was the good choice and that disobeying God was the evil choice if they didn`t yet eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.
Why did god created that tree in the first place?
Have to love how making your enemy out to be a baby muncher is a deep rooted thought that is carried on to this day
Exactly.
Where there's smoke, there's fire
Yea alright!
@@MyChihuahua Not unless someone is literally just lying about the smoke to make people scared and run away from a supposed fire that they don't see when there actually isn't a fire.
Practitioners of the dark Arts who've learned at the mystery schools have have drink blood All Through the Ages into deep antiquity. How many writings illustrations and examples of eyewitness accounts of this just look up the count of St Germain New Orleans
I was introduced to the concept of Gnosticism by, of all things, a video game. Xenogears for the Sony PlayStation. I have long since been curious about the deeper meaning of Gnosticism and decided to search for its meaning in depth. I wanted an unbiased breakdown of the concept and after a lot of "polemics" I felt somewhat discouraged. I want to thank you for your in depth description. I now fully understand a basic concept of Gnosticism thank you.
I don't know why but Japanese pop culture seems awash in Gnostic thinking. Whenever you find deep, philosophical anime and japanese games, it's always Gnostic or Shinto at the core of the philosophy. It may be because of some overlap between Gnostic and Buddhist ideas. But I think of Madoka and Evangelion as Gnostic, rather than Buddhist, though I suppose you could argue that their message is either or neither.
Origins of Gnosticism
@@TheRachaelLefler if you look deep with all of these wisdom traditions they all align with a deep wisdom that transcends what can be described in words
Xenosaga introduced me too it.
I’m here because of Persona/SMT.
I thought this was more informative than most things I see about this subject , I appreciate that , I am someone who falls between two schools of thoughts , I think of my self as a spiritual person who used to call my self Christian , but not quite Gnostic Christian either , I would say I am
Still in the process of learning all religions, as much as possible, from Sikhism to mystical Judaism. But more than that I see science as not a way to discount God but a way to show God’s work ,the problem is how we see our creator , as a thing , person , or energy Ism still learning and fallowing the path to find peace , but smart enough to know I can’t know all but I can try to understand more . I will do that forever til my last breath 😇
Absolutely! Well-said!
Be not deceived God is light and in him is no darkness, repent and believe in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ
@@SDawg-ik1szlearn every religion and understand all belief systems, If what you say is true then there is no risk in understanding all religions. How would you possibly be making the right choice any other way?
… “A spiritual person who used to call myself Christian, but not quite gnostic”… You’re speaking my lingo. 😊
So it seems the secret knowledge is the meditation to meet your true self wrapped around your ego. This helps you to always be aware of the true core which gently guides the ego that will live with us as long as our species alive.
@Mary Gomes YOU are Heresy. Carry on thinking jesus will save you by just blindly believing. We would rather know truths than be told them through a corrupted book.
Lydia, well said. Meditation shows the true self & the ego.
The ego is a 'process' of our brain, it can't be eliminated but awareness
of our true self helps to 'control' it and recognize its effects.
@@gnosticwarrior2075 What is Truth? For any Christian, Truth is the second person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ. To know Truth is to know Him. Truth is not a set of abstract axioms that you give intellectual ascent to. It is a way of life that involves synchronously living the way of Christ. Protestants, and Western Christianity forgot this. Eastern Christianity never did, hence why ideas like the nous, the essence energies distinction, and theosis are mainstays of Eastern Christian praxis.
@@eduardovalentin9416 Truth is the endgame of possible outcomes.
To be more accurate, i'll say you that the meditation process is the main way for releasing your own (spirit) from your own material body.
But be careful, its sort of dangerous if your not a good person since the Holy spirit of God wont leave it with you; in other words, you will be alone against spiritual principalities and powers.
>slander
I resent that! Slander is spoken, in print it's libel
@@septimus9764 you don't get the reference.
"You don't trust anyone, that's your problem."
@@wellthismachinekills3809 DTA don't trust anyone that's the only way to live!
damon gardiner everybody has someone who they truly think they can trust. Even you. But don’t trust me on that. lol
I’d hear that from my dad growing up quite frequently. The slander/ libel ordeal, or the less / fewer distinction. Or the too / to / two situation. Now I’m running on......
Interestingly, Mohammed used portions of the Gnostic writings in the composition of his Quran.
Kevin Canuckster
His wife family was judeo-christian. So those writings might have been present in his wife family.
@@hephopa6573 Mohammed clearly no knowledge of the Gnostic writings. He did not write about lower or lesser GOD. He onlyused the Torah and the main Gospels Matt, Mark, Luke, and John.
Kevin canukster. Can you prove that Muhammud pbuh took from gnostic and other writings and composed the Quran. You will never be able to do so. The evidence that the Quran us divinely inspired is overwhelming. It could not and cannot be produced by any human being. That is the Quran, s challenge "" produce a surah(chapter) like unto the quran"". A challenge made over 1400 years ago and not the finest of Arab linguists or anyone else has been able to do it. Please do your research properly before making unfounded claims. By the way Allah s w t says in the Quran" this is not a new message but a reminder and a confirmation of previous scriptures revealed to our messengers. So you see when you believe in One Almighty God then you believe in all his messengers like we Muslims do
Brian Belk
Never have.
Interesting.
Could you quickly summarize it here.?
I thought he was illiterate.
In the first century, the Gnostics and the Spiritualists debated over whose idea was greater. In the end, both were given equal representation throughout the New Testament. Nearly every scripture in the New Testament marries Gnosticism with Spiritualism. These two factions later evolved into something that would likely have been unrecognizable to first century believers.
That's bs of the highest order
@@GNARLOUSE I can show you at least a hundred examples of Gnosticism co-joined with spirituality in the New Testament. Almost every verse contains the two married, not only in the phraseology but in the context and doctrine. It is not even subtilty hidden. Some may want you to believe it was only about spirituality but clearly it was not. One must hear the word before one can believe the word. This is why teachers are listed in the gift ministries.
The New Testament explicitly, directly warns Christians against the evils of “gnosticism”
@@brotheraugustine Could you post a scripture and verse that does that?
@@FlockofAngels Could you post even just one example of YOUR claims? Don't be shy now. DAZZLE us with your insight.
I have read some of the gnostic gospels. I agree with the way the narrator describes them in this video. Even in the Gospel of John, there is a very strong theme of attaining and growing in knowledge/spiritual understanding.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ According to John even ends with what's basically an advertisement for Scriptures about the life of Christ beyond the Synoptic Gospels, like how modern books often end in a bunch of ads for many other books.
I did some research for an independent study last year. The Gospel of John best seen as a proto-Gnostic text, still orthodox Christian though. Like, some Gnostic communities would have used the Gospel of John as a central theological text. 😄
The apostle John wrote against the gnostics in his epistles. The truth is both the orthodox/catholics and the gnostics misinterpret the writings of John to their own destruction. Reading things in his texts he never intended. It always starts with subtle lies.
@@jonathangandara109 no because John 1:14 the word become flesh which shows it’s anti gnostic seems like the writer trying debunk Gnosticism most secular scholar also would agree gospel of John would be gospel which against Gnostics not that it’s gnostic gospel. Even 1 John 4:3 it even says everyone who does not confess Jesus came in flesh is antichrist this doesn’t like that author is gnostic
What about Jesus’ younger chinese brother Hong Xiuquan?
Thank you so much for bringing this level of education to UA-cam on early historical religious and philosophical thought and the confluence of it all I can't tell you how grateful I am for your channel Thank you for this video
Secret, when you say Gnostic, thank pronostic and you come up with the Essenes. The third of the three Priestly orders of the Hebrews. The Sadducees, the Pharisees, and the Essenes. And we know what Christ thought of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Remember, that in the Greek text Judas did not betray Jesus. In the Greek text he turns him over after Jesus tells him do what you must do. Actually sounds like he's doing the bidding of Jesus.
44 Hawk
“Do what you must do”???
Really.?
Why would sending an innocent, godly and good man to his ultimate persecution and death ever be what you must do.?????
@@carolreid5405 you have a clue what the implications would be had the occurrences not happened the way they did? Did you ever think, possibly not, the Jesus may have arranged to make sure that Judas turned him over?
Not only did he have to show the evil that had crept into the official clergy of the day, he could not have proven bet he could overcome it by resurrecting after such a public display! Or do you misunderstand the scriptures entirely?
Well there is jesus the man and there is jesus the master and it seems to me that when jesus spoke those words to Judas it came from jesus the master, it came from a deeper understanding of what was playing out before him, that this was his destiny and also judas's destiny hence why there was no resentment towards judas from jesus, not my will but thy will, it is symbolic of the surrender to the divine will.
Jesus himself was an Essene. They had nothing to do with the Pharisees, they were a group preparing for his arrival.
So much of our history is slanderous it’s hard to find truth anywhere 😞 I appreciate your take on this and keeping it ‘non slanderous’
Interesting fact: Standard English translations of John 8:44 obscure the Greek, which reads: ὑμεῖς ἐκ τοῦ πατρὸς τοῦ διαβόλου ἐστὲ. With the article preceding πατρὸς, the phrase τοῦ διαβόλου is a genitive phrase modifying the nominal phrase ἐκ τοῦ πατρὸς;.. Thus: "You are from the father of the Devil." If the statement were to mean, as the standard English translation renders it, "You are of the father, the Devil," then the article preceding πατρὸς, would not be present. In this case the phrase, "father" would be in the predicate position, a grammatical choice that the author of John makes a few verses later in 8:56 when referencing Abraham: Ἀβραὰμ ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν, "Abraham, your father." This literal reading is confirmed by the last segment of the verse (8:44f) which straightforwardly acknowledges the present of two beings, the liar and his father: ὅταν λαλῇ τὸ ψεῦδος, ἐκ τῶν ἰδίων λαλεῖ, ὅτι ψεύστης ἐστὶν καὶ ὁ πατὴρ αὐτοῦ. The full verse reasons that the Devil lies since his nature is that of a liar. Why? Because not only is the Devil a liar himself but his father is also a liar. But this is not the sense of the standard English translation which is peculiar and strained. It reads αὐτοῦ as a genitive "it" referring to an unnamed singular antecedent such as "lying" or "falsehood." Thus: πατὴρ αὐτοῦ is rendered in the standard English translation idiosyncratically, "the father of lies." This is incredibly incorrect and dishonest. Aὐτοῦ doesn`t mean “ it” but is a personal pronoun which this context refers to the devil, therefore it should say “the father of the devil” not “the father of lies” biblehub.com/greek/846.htm
This verse functioned as a calling card for Gnostics who used it as plain evidence that Jesus taught that the Jewish God was the father of the Devil. A number of Gnostics employed this verse to prove that Jesus himself instructed them that there existed a god in addition to Jesus' true Father. This other god is the Old Testament God and is responsible for the generation of the Devil and evil. They insisted that this verse demonstrates that determinism plays a role in human nature, especially in terms of the most wicked people, the apostates. According to these Gnostics, it is a wicked deity - the god the old testament - who fathered both the apostates and the Devil. The early catholics faced a real dilemma when it came to explaining this verse. In order to neutralize it, they insisted that the Greek be read appositionally, "you are from the father, the Devil" even though they confess that reading it this way would be clearer if the genitive article before father were erased. Their ultimate concern is that the scripture cannot say "from the father of the Devil" so they plead that another reading of the text is necessary, a reading that they regard as 'better' than the plain reading. They are so certain that that text means "from the father, the Devil" that they freely render it, "You are sons of the Devil," and attribute these words to Jesus instead of the words found in the scripture. They are uneasy about quoting the Greek in the form it appears in the biblical passage itself. So they tend to substitute for it what they think the passage should say by paraphrasing the passage whenever they reference it.
If the author, intended to write “You are sons of the Devil” he would have simply wrote it. If Jesus wanted to say “You are sons of the Devil” he would of said it that way. “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” 1 Corinthians 14:33
Or perhaps Jesus could refer to those cussed, wicked, unrepentant Jews with whom he actually fervently argued with as "the Devil" en bloc (as he called Peter also "Devil" once) - and then "the Devil"s father" again could mean what the Chistian scholars think: "you, Jews in this group, all are children of the Devil if you think like He does".
Valentinus 777 Even as a child I could understand that the bible has been translated several times, from several different languages over thousands of years, by many different individuals subject to their interpretations. I was agnostic all my life because of my distrust of any authority. Thank you for your literal translation.
A lot of this is Greek to me.
Channelnap
@@akostarkanyi825 incorrect. Jesus and the Bible currently confirm that Yahweh is in fact the devil, Satan or if you prefer the demiurge. More than 168 bible verses point to this. It also points to the fact that this thing is the creator of men. We are created in His image and it is good and evil.
Wonderful video - I’m taking a Christianity class and for the past several months I’ve been looking for content like this so I can better understand the material. Had to sort through all those conspiracy theory videos whenever I look anything up. Now, at the very end of it, I stumble upon you. Dang it UA-cam!
In her book "The Aquarian Conspiracy", Marilyn Ferguson described these battles over small differences within the communities of people who'd encountered great personal life changes that reflected the presence of a higher power and perhaps at the edge of what then was the "new age" movement. So, it's still around and seems prevalent in our political realm.
In the last days,the Bible mentions that many will follow after the doctrines of devils, and fables.
See 75% of JRPGs with T or M ratings for more details. Especially Shin Megami Tensei/Persona and the Xeno series
Pillage him, Satanael!
And Castlevania season 3
Hahaha I came here to say this!
That was good. I think you might have emphasized how "Gnosticism" was often a means of reconciling Christianity with neoplatonic and Greco-Roman philosophy more broadly.
This is of interest today for people likewise looking to position Christianity in the context of our contemporary understanding of the world. Original sin etc as pertinent metaphors for the human condition, rather than absurdities for many, if taken literally.
+Pasquino 0 Good points...maybe in a sequel episode. I didn't want to delve too deeply into Neo-platonism on this episode (it's really dense stuff if you've ever tried reading Plotinus), but it does make a lot of these "gnostic" texts make more sense.
I enjoy Plotinus. Marsilio Ficino would be interesting to cover in that regard as well. Or Christianity as interpreted through the broader western tradition more generally.
Marsilio Ficino is a personal favorite of mine. I probably will cover him in my Magic/Science/Religion series since he is an excellent example of early "medical science" and how close it is to magic.
They don’t see Jesus as a “spiritual being” - they recognize that he is a [metaphor] for the ego death and resurrection mytheme.
Oh, the hero's Journey?
@@caroswolf286 it's all connected, man 😉
Well, 'gnostics' is a too varied group to put easy labels on. The question of Christ were subject to a variety of interpretations and dogmas among different gnostic groups.
Caros Wolf - yes, The Hero’s Journey - Exactly. Dozens of Religions in this region have different versions of the same message. That it is possible to have an experience that completely negates the idea of an individual ego calling the shots. This is the death and rebirth experience. It is, and was, catalyzed by the use of psychedelics.
@@MrTrda yes and the Jesus story is just new version of the old ones in ancient times been retold over and over but different names. Krishna, Horrus ect
Direct knowledge of the monad - no need for priests, that's the issue traditional Christians had
There were no traditional Christians back then
this. You’re Absolutely, Right
Great video!! Will you also cover the history or development of the Coptic Church? Simply curious!
Thanks for sharing!
***** Glad you enjoyed it! I'm also fascinated by the Coptic Orthodox Church. Lot's of rich history to that tradition. I'm sure I can cover it in the coming months!
Can you imagine how much more scientific knowledge we would have if we never burned people for alchemical experiments (chemistry), desecration of corpses (medical disection) or astronomical observations?
Don’t blame it all on religion, governments are to blame too. The burning of the library of Alexandria set us back 2,000 years but there was no religious motive for burning it
@@randomango2789 wasn't it burnt by accident
Or you know, using medicinal plants.
@@dershogun6396 It was burnt by accident. They tried to save it but to no avail
I'd argue it's less black and white especially if you take into account both Mayan & papal astronomical observations and the contributions of Islam in the world of mathematics
Loving the hard work and research you put into your videos! You are awesome!
It’s nice to see how this channel changed and grew over the years.
Wow! This was very informative and helpful. Thank you for your brilliant and nuanced discussion of Gnosticism.
where in the world gnostic christianity coming from?
I am Catholic, but every time i read the Holy Bible i find myself asking questions further .. the bible is not enough. i love God and believe in higher divinity, but i also feel so odd. i want to know what is gnostic christianity. sounds like stuff i want to know.
Same here
You might find this interesting. Many ancient truths and teachings were lost after the deaths of the Apostles. However, as prophesized, these truths have since been restored. www.amazon.com/dp/1893036162/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_rYffDbJE34ZK9
Here is another interesting video I recently saw: ua-cam.com/video/7rV6gUipBu0/v-deo.html
@@stuartburrows2744 i came from Gnostic believe you will have spiritual encounters, but it is a lie if you seek the spiritual outside of the true holy jesus of the bible, you will encounter a deceiving spirit. The holy spirit that comes from the father in jesus reveal to me all truth. Following jesus is spiritual read the king james bible, surrender, pray to jesus only, study the word and he will reveal himself. Dont follow mysticism i came from there study of demons is what it is. Jesus said everything you do in darkness will be seen in the light, jesus did not work in secret was open about the kingdom of heaven
@ippos_khloros you obviously dont know the bible, Or god seek jesus of the holy bible an he will reveal to you all truth
I think part of the reason why gnosticism has been shunned is because a lot of it was anti hierarchical, in the sense that it paints the God of the old testament as malevolent, questioning his authority
If we ignore their issues with other rivaling sects and evaluate the gnostic movement by itself - it's still unimpressive. They had no proofs and therefore no authority, and people back then would see this just as well as those alive today.
@@TheGuiltsOfUs no christians have proof. But you're tight that they didn't have authority in that the powers that be did not appropriate their version of Christianity cause it was ore anti hierarchical
What's the best explanation for the seemingly schizophrenic dichotomy between the jealous god of the OT and loving God of Christ in the NT? Genuinely curious
@@genericinternetmale14 it was a totally different god.
The narcissism of small differences does not apply here. They simply did not want their doctrines polluted so they went to extremes in order to prevent that from occurring; they truly believed in their doctrine. Why is that so hard to comprehend? The differences were clearly anything but small or insignificant. It was clearly more than philosophy to them.
Good work. I have a background in religious history and it is nice to see such a well rounded treatment of this topic that properly examines the intricacies and subtleties. I loved the introduction of the narcissism of small differences. A fine and under-utilized term that has vast application in understanding the human condition. I am putting this in my favorites so perhaps more people will see it.
Soylent Green Glad you liked it! Religion is SO nuanced and potentially polarizing. I'm aiming to talk about these issues from a more academic perspective which [hopefully] will lend a bit of religious literacy to whoever watches the episodes. Thank you for the subscribe!!
ReligionForBreakfast That comment alone would earned my subscription friend :) You're a breath of fresh air.
Soylent Green Thank you!
This video represents exactly the reason why Gnostic Teachings have been kept hidden. That is, misinterpretation preached to the masses.
Matthew 13:19 "When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart."
Narcissism of small differences... Anyone else here think of the epic rivalry between the "Judean People's Front" and the "People's Front of Judea"? I am constantly amazed how much the Pythons got correct in my personal favorite of their movies.
As someone new to Gnosticism, I found this video incredibly clear and easy to understand. The comparison with orthodox beliefs helped me grasp the differences better.
Before I deconverted and became an atheist ... the form of Christianity that I believed in was heavilly influenced by gnostic ideas
I actuallt self-identified as a gnostic
I love the amount of research you do on these subjects before making videos. Great work!!
great video and an amazing way of present the information , love it
Thank you! Glad you liked it. I made a sequel of sorts about the Gospel of Judas if you want to check it out.
+ReligionForBreakfast I will, am been trying to go further on knowledge . .. is so amazing
This video certainly has generated one of the most lively threads I've ever seen on youtube. Well done!
you dont believe...why do you discuss it then...this guy has not the slightest idea what he is talking about...or he does and he is purposely trying to steer people in the wrong direction...why do people who dont have any idea what they are talking about....even speak....if you dont believe fine...but why do you embarrass yourself ....with fake gnosis....
The answer to 2+2 is 4. There are a "variety" of dead wrong answers that will get you an F in school, destroy a bridge that is designed with that "variety" of math and miss a planet when launching a rocket using that "varied" sum. So yes, gnosticism is a damnable heresy, not because it's different from what I think but because it is a path other than the one way that God gave for man to be saved from His wrath.
Gnosticism refers to direct knowledge... Heaven within for those with eyes to see
What are you talking about?
@@MetaKnight964 it's the definition of gnostic from the Greek, based on Jesus' words in the canonical gossips and elsewhere (like Thomas).
@@MetaKnight964thinking within. not on the outside world. modern christians are materialistic, and support globalism. you could say globalism is heresy
Have fallen in love with ur discussions. So easy to listen to and understand 😊 Thank u 🙏
A very well laid out analysis of Gnosticism. Thank you.
What you forget to mention is the repeated recurrence of the Gnostics in southern France in the 10th and 11th centuries, known as Cathars or Albigensians. There were Gnostics in Italy during the same period: check out "The Name of the Rose". The most successful were in Bosnia in the 14th and 15th century, known as Bogomils. In spite of efforts by Eastern Orthodox Serbs and Catholic Croats, they survived. But they accepted Islam from the Turks
Gnostics belive in variety of theologies...brilliant
Baby eater must’ve been a common slur? I just learned about a part in a book by Josephus that describes a lady named Mary that ate her baby after Titus walled in Jerusalem.
Or maybe they just taste really really good?
Especially after a nice spice rub.
@@karenabrams8986
MMMMMMMMMMHHHH, children
@@iska788 😝
Blood libel
There's something here that I've never been able to wrap my mind around, and I think it's a debate within different denominations. If Judas DOESN'T betray Jesus, God's plan for salvation is never fulfilled. So, it's not far fetched (to me) that Judas may have been aware of his role in things.
Well someone had to do it
Erm no.
If Jesus hasn't betrayed Jesus. Jesus would still die.
Jesus foretold about his death many times in the future. Judas just happened to be in a player who was there
The main point about gnosticism, that he leaves out, is the fact that gnostics believe that salvation is obtained only thru ascension to enlightenment thru learning secret knowledge and not thru believe in Jesus as God and savior who died from all mankind's sins. Salvation is obtained by the grace of God not secret knowledge.
" You must be renewed in the spirit of your minds."
That sounds like something Jesus said. Renew your mind.
Transformed by the renewing of your mind
Thats the only way to regain your authenticity.. most humans are brainwashed
Hi @Denis Sutherland , how do I do this? I believe the statement to be true, without instruction is just statement. What does the bible say about renewing our minds does it give the detail to instruct us?
Paul wrote this in Ephesians 4:23
Thank you for your depth of research, and understanding. I like these videos.
Hey this was a very useful video for me. I was raised an atheist and found a home in a Baptist church when I entered into foster care. I found bhuddest philosophy when I moved out on my own and I've begun exploring nostic texts. I'm off to check out that library you mentioned and I'm super excited to hear this new creation story. Recently listened to the book of adam that had an interesting g creation story to it. In the book of juda it mentions 27 heavens crazy
According to the Bible Jesus said, "In my father's house there are many mansions," What do we think this symbolises?
Hello dear. Why do you no longer believe in Christianity❤️
To know all, it is necessary to know very little; but to know that very little, one must first know pretty much.
As always, a very good analysis of a difficult, obscure and complex set of ancient religious ideas and archetypes. Well done!
There's a difference between those born in the flesh and those born in the spirit. This difference is described in the Bible. Those born in the flesh are flesh, those born in the spirit are spirit. The existence of demiurge being in control of this world from the gnostic perspective is simply a means of saying that when given the choice to obey our evil nature (which is only present because of the body of flesh) versus obeying our righteous nature which is present because we are in fact spirit and not flesh (God is spirit and not flesh and we are born in His image), the tendency of most people is to obey evil (fleshly desires). If you look in Romans, Paul speak of this internal battle between having the desire to do good verses having the ability to actually do it specifically. There is nothing heretical about acknowledging the fact that the children of the flesh (born from water only) are more numerous in this world than are the children of God (those who are born of water and spirit) and so the children of the flesh have the appearance of having a larger influence over what happens here than do the children of God. If the children of the flesh are more likely to be influenced by sin (evil desires that war against the spirit) than are the children of God, then it would be reasonable to say that a demiurge exists which is primarily due to the flesh we inhabit and its ability to influence our behaviors.
Narcissism of small differences- this is an interesting topic and I see this in other communities as well. I did not know it had a name.
+Aisling Chepi Yeah, the concept shows up in other social situations...not just religion.
like within anarchist schools of thought
Ryan - No one is making that claim. Look up a term called "Narcissism of Small differences". There's a decent Wikipedia page on it.
When this concept is mentioned I always think of the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea!
1 and 2 John in the bible teach you how to "Test the spirits to see if they are from God because many deceivers have gone out into the world" the term anti-christ can mean "against" Christ or "In place of Christ" jesus warned of false christians and false Christs who would deceive many. the term "narcissism of small differrence" is meaningless when discerning truth from error. 90 percent truth mixed with a false jesus is not christianity. the devil always "masquerades as an angel of light and his servants are able to transform themselves into servants of righteousness. 1 John and 2 John are specific tests for believers to discern true christians from false ones "anyone who denies Jesus Christ has come in the flesh" Gnostics believed Jesus was just a spirit or "consciousness" they deny plain doctrine of scripture to twist christianity into the persuit of "Secret knowledge" rather than faith in the gospel message and jesus himself who became man to attone for sins as a human sacrifice to free us from our own sin. "without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sin" all of christianity hinges on the blood of Jesus as atonement between a holy God and sinful humanity. God manifested in human flesh is central to christian doctrine. therefore Gnosticism is NOT christianity but heresy and "a spirit of Anti-Christ"
"As for what certain churches add to this - that God assumed a human nature - I warned expressly that I do not know what they mean. Indeed, to confess the truth, they seem to me to speak no less absurdly than if one were to say to me that a circle has assumed the nature of a square." - Benedict de Spinoza
I don't agree with the defined area depicted here of the Gnostic view of Jesus. There is a more accurate view that better describes the Spiritual realities of Jesus.
This definition described here further promotes a heretic view -
The mystical spiritual soul energy - better describes the ideology.
Get to know your Soul and allow balance between soul and ego. The human ego is the barrier to pure understanding, the ego as socialization nurtures it, voids the original gifts that the soul came into this vortex with.
We all have one - we all can go inside and reach our souls - The soul has the power of understanding, strength for passionate goodness fortitude, and is where we truly understand, where we also know God's presence within us and around us - the energy from which we came.
We are vessels for a soul, having a human experience.
Beth Bartlett yea man totally agree with you. you make it so poetic good job!
Shane Harper
Thanks - though its no less frustrating when seeking the reality, "prior to Constatine's Political Version".
Peace be with you -
Yes beautiful stated beth you know it, and i know it and its beautiful and its love.
This was such a brilliant video, you seem to have managed to wade through the waffle and give it as it is with a seemingly fairly objective approach. About to go and check out the rest of your channel but thanks for this!
Wait both Christians and gnostics adore Jesus but Christians still consider them heretics?
Sometimes I do wonder how this religion survived for so long
Ok. I'm 4 mins in and he hasn't actually given an overview of what they actually believe. I clicked on this short video to get a quick rundown of the main beliefs of gnostics and instead this guy is giving a history lesson.
Atheists for sure, and alot of religious people too, miss the point and reasons for why religion has been so successful through recent human history. Successful religions are those that enabled their populations to survive and thrive in a highly competitive inter-group enviroment, where adopting a laissez-faire social policies could mean your group could be wiped out. Religion promotes high in-group trust and high fertility rates. Having a large, productive population can protect against forms of domination by competing groups. Religion is way more than "tricking gullible people" like high-IQ, free thinking atheists like to believe.
Gnostic Christians followed Buddhism and believed in reincarnation, so did Christ.
This is an amazing channel, thank you for your work!
Thank you. I'm from a traditional Christian background and on a gnostics course at the moment. Thank you for your unbiased perspectives.
You know, as a person who is not religious, I love and respect the way you present all of this. My family is Christian, and it helps me to know what they believe and where it comes from. Thank you for presenting this knowledge in such a scholarly way.
Just know that anything gnostic is not Christian 🙏🏼
@@ForeverInFaith The title of the video is "What did the Gnostic Christians believe? " Didn't you read it?
@@jennybtx ‘Gnostic Christian’ is a contradiction in terms.
@@ForeverInFaith Well you can debate that with the dude that put out the vid. He seems very intelligent though. He probably knows more than you. Good luck.
@@jennybtx look up Michael Heisers lecture on Gnosticism. It may help you understand.
I pray that you want to know The Truth. Shalom.
This was great. A fair and balanced view that I've rarely found.
there were the Cathars though ... pretty gnostic - and they got burnt at the stake
It's wild watching this in 2023 and being reminded how much your channel has matured in terms of delivery and editing
Tfw you discover that you've been a Gnostic all this time
Why is it "did" believe instead of "do believe"
Gnosticism is far from dead.
You are very correct. It is VERY much alive today.
@@doomguy8324 because there’s a fool born every minute
@@NoWay-br6dt MAKE THAT EVERY SECOND...
I used to be a part of an interfaith breakfast group. We discuss these things. I miss it. You have a great teaching personality. I subscribed. I am a fan.
Presenting Dr. Henry, circa 1993, fresh faced and recording informational UA-cam videos before heading to his true passion, playing bass in the greatest ska band you’ve never heard of.
JK, love your channel and seeing how your presentation style has evolved, I’m here for all of it! Thanks for staying with it!
Thank you so much for an unbiased explanation. ❤️
I second your statement. 😊
You had me in the first few minutes. Subscribed.
Thank you to Jack Rackam for sending me to this channel. Also thank you to ReligionForBreakfast mentioning Dualism. Nobody ever seems to mention it. I especially enjoy the idea that a 'Perfect God' would not Entrap Us in fallible temporary mortal bodies.. (( Zoroastrianism seems to hold similar views, though as always I could be incorrect. ))
A good explanation! You mentioned "Narcissism of small differences", but I think that we can't talk for very small differences. I rather would say "Altruism of huge common(s)", because for example one of the most important things (that is common for both) is that Christ is our saviour, or other examples. With this I mean that the differences between these two religions (christianity and gnosticism) are a lot and the common things are just a few. That's why I think we should talk and support more the "Altruism of huge common(s)". What do you think about this?
I think your definition of "small differences" is probably different than those people who practice and are serious about their faith, now and then. Obviously gnosticism was not seen as being a little different than Catholicism. Just like Arianism wasn't seen as a a "small difference". Also, I tend to lend more weight with people who were not only more familiar with gnostic writings, but also had direct contact with gnostics at the time. While it's obvious there was some exaggerations/myths generated (i.e. baby eating), that can actually show you how serious they felt the differences were. The very idea of multiple gods is a problem for monotheistic religions, of which Christianity is one. This presentation sounds a bit overly legalistic, but it's good nonetheless to hear such scholastic discussions that attempt to support a morally relativistic position. This is what I would expect in a secular/temporal world and believe is "preached" at most universities.
Both Christians and Muslims believe in One God, and morally they believe basically the same things. The Christians' One God is a Trinity, a small difference we Christians would believe, when it comes to how many Gods there are. But the Muslims say, 'Nope! The Trinity is polytheistic, a BIG difference. You Christians believe in three gods" - My point is, if the beliefs of those 'gnostics' aren't small differences for Christians, then Christians need to acknowledge that the Trinity can justifiably be seen as a polytheistic faith by many others, … because 'gnostic' belief for a Christian is not crazier than the belief in the Trinity, to be honest. What is a small or large difference is easily biased, especially by a religion demanding perfect obedience.
@@SueiWaa Christians and Muslims are monotheists in the general sense but do not believe in the same God, according to them. Islam does not understand the Trinity in strictly monotheistic terms. Again, the Trinity isn't a "small difference".
@@jaymoret7418 Well, many Muslims would probably disagree with the description that Christians are monotheists, in the similar sense that Christians would disagree when gnostics call themselves Christians. We need to be weary of the measure we use against others could be used against ourselves. 😵💫 Peace ✌🏻
@@SueiWaa Correct about the monotheistic disagreement. We need to be wary about the state of our souls and eternal salvation. Only care about the Truth. I'll leave the worrying to you and others. Again, these are not "small differences".
Gnosis is portrayed by the "wise old owl." Don't get me wrong, I love Owls. Gnosticism means "knowledge" (self-righteousness) opposed to being saved by grace.🦉
The assertion that faith constitutes a salvific credential is immoral because it elevates belief above conduct. According to this doctrine a person can live a wicked life but as long as she passes the faith-in-Jesus test she will be rewarded in an afterlife. By contrast, someone like Gandhi, who lived virtuously but never passed the faith-in-Jesus test, will be eternally tortured in an afterlife. Smh.
@@robertpotter7940 "As the body without breath is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
James 2:26
@@robertpotter7940 ...you bring up an interesting point I also ask myself. A devotional I was reading mentioned God loving all people and when I read it I thought "is that true." There are people full of wickedness like you mentioned and some of them do their evil deeds under the name of Jesus (wolves in sheep's clothing.) Then there's the person who has never been "saved" but they've lived a righteous or Godly life that doesn't go against biblical principles. What about the person who goes to church EVERY, tithes 10% of their income, they dress modestly or in good taste basically they're more perfect than the Pope or Jesus himself. Is that what it takes to get to Heaven. What if a person doesn't believe in Heaven? Would they still go without their will. I mean, let's face it, none of chose to be born. I have similar questions as you. I personally don't believe a person can live an entirely wicked life and then as they near death start to feel remorse. Is that remorse for what they've done or fear they may have to face a circumstance. That "what if" in the back of their mind. They say even atheists start to pray sometimes before they die too. Anyway, I'm not here to try to convince or convert you, I'd resent it if it were done to me (it was...) so I won't force my beliefs on you. Thank you for bringing up your point.
@@publicserviceannouncement4777 so true. So apparently it really does not come down to faith but to the good works you do, whether instigated by the belief in your chosen Lord or simply because of your concern for the wellbeing of others.
@@publicserviceannouncement4777 Jessica, you seem like a really neat person. Contemplative, thoughtful, and considerate. Your friends are lucky.
Extremely articulate bloke He should have another channel and cover other topics too...
Yeah. Hard to find articulate content from people that aren't simultaneously insufferable to listen to; it's a nice change.
You could probably go back in time and drop the book harry potter and the philosophers stone and they would remark that it is a work of great spiritual potency and incorporate it into their mythology. They never even attempted to establish any proofs, it was a crazy movement.
‘’And the lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden’’ (Genesis 3 22-23)
‘’one of us’’? Hmm, well we’ll leave that shall we? It’s all been said and discussed before.
But to the point, how these views became such an anathema to some early church fathers and how such vehemence was heaped upon them. I think that there must be some hidden, but nevertheless definable, principle akin to say laws in Newtonian physics that would show in a proportional sense the relationship between a person’s lack of faith and ignorance in their own declared beliefs and the degree of animosity they direct at others with alternative beliefs. This shows itself time and time again where fundamentalists lack all awareness of the spiritual realities inherent and stated in their scriptures and teachings.
There is always this tension between an established religion and the mystic, we all know the old saying about how inconvenient a bishop finds it to have a saint in the dioceses. This is a trait common to all religions, armies of theologians and clerics are only necessary when a religion is attempting to establish its identity and, of course, to sustain it they have to stay and stand guard to defend it, but by then the said religion has acquired the accretions of cultural identity too.
Most of the saints, prophets or avatars that religions purport to follow would be shocked to see (if they could return) what has been taught or done in their name, (or maybe they would sagely nod and say, ‘’yep, inevitable’’) indeed most of them fell out with the established religion that they were born into, Jesus of Nazareth being the classic example of this. And this raises another important point that I made earlier about the inconvenience caused by the saint to the bishop, in that it is most convenient, nay, necessary even for the prophet, savour, or whatever to be dead.
This conflict between the two (those that have the eyes to see, and those that don’t) is as old as religion itself.
Plot twist: the serpent in Genesis is the new testament god, he tempts them with knowledge of the spiritual. The devil in the Temptations of Christ stories is the old testament god, he tempts jesus with worldly gain.
On point. Old testament god as the devil (greek: diabolos; cf. Diabolical) is touched on by jesus in the gospel of john. The serpent was also venerated by some gnostic cults or groups, the same way that moses used a snake crawling on a stick to heal people.
There is a certain hubris in the idea that man could become a god or godlike though and I can understand the wisdom in knowledge not always necessarily being in our best interest. Kinda makes sense the two gods being different beings though. I don't know lol.
Then who are those paedophiles ?
Yes. The same thing that luciferians believe. satan is the good guy and God is the bad guy. It's just devil worship in disguise.
this falls on its face because Jesus basically always quotes the Old testament and puts himself in relation to it as its fulfillment. These silly ideas about Jesus rejecting the Old Testament God just don't stand up to even the most casual scrutiny
Great video love this channel. Though reading some of the comments is enough to turn me into a gnostic.
Great!
It’s no secret more than an essence on knowledge. It is about realization of self in a non human centric way. We as humans fragment essence in words and in a second plane, words are only fragmented labels.