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Perhaps alternatively they could "re‐craft" an existing magic item. Like I have a magic cloak of type A and certain rarity and for X amount of gold, time and maybe another specific magic item we can "re-craft" it into a different magic item cloak. Like turning a cape of the montebank into a cloak of displacement for a bunch of gold, displacer beast tentacles, 2 spell scrolls of blur and some down time in a special (potentially dangerous area). Uhm Will, I had donated a bunch of things during the livestream, but I have never been contacted about the donation reward. (My tablet was having issues at the time, I wanted the 1-shot with you!)
So, two things. The first is that this doesn't really seem like it's too much different than the magic item crafting system that was in one of the books for the original version of 5e- I don't remember which, I think it was Xanathars guide. Maybe a little bit more fleshed out, I don't think you needed arcane proficiency with that one, and I'm pretty sure you needed spell slots. But its otherwise not that different. The second is that I see a really simple way to keep this from getting out of hand. That being that if you want to create a magic item that does anything other than just add a plus one to something, you either need to find a schematic in game, you need to find either a schematic on how to build one, or notes on how to build one, or you need to find the magic item itself and study it intensely for roughly the same amount of time that it would take for you to craft the item. Maybe shorten it with some checks that are successful. Also doing so would destroy the item that you found. This would let you control what items your party is getting in the same way that finding an item would.
Solution: Require quests to get the materials. You want to make a belt of giant strength? Now you need a lock of giant's hair. Go out and slay one, or convince a giant to give you one, or break into a giant's stronghold to sneak into their bedroom and steal it while they sleep - And now you have a bunch of fun, potential quest hooks that end up in a reward that the players sought out!
The simplest and most sensible solution; magic items shouldn’t just be equipment you churn out as you increase your skills like in Skyrim or WoW, they should be something that *utilizes the fiction!*
Other options :- incorporating story reasons to make it so that material trade into towns is halted until something is resolved, preventing the party from lingering in the same place to just reroll material checks and instead seeking out the trouble to unlock the area. Introduce regional items so that you can enforce restrictions on access to the more overpowered items outside of the starting area of a campaign and thus encourage exploration. Create a global guild for crafting that requires members complete certain quests or achieve feats skill in order to be able to use the forges and such where items can be made, promotes RP with NPCs and gives each town an established and deliberate point of interest for players to want to seek out on their own which you can then use to have story events to occur near to or with. Just a couple off the head thoughts, there's plenty more of potential ways to twist the mechanic to yours and players liking from the ground work presented.
That’s what the money is for. You don’t just evaporate 2000gp to sniff the fumes and a magic sword pops into existence. Those materials are accounted for in the rules.
??? Who has that kind of wealth? The king? A high-powered fighter knight? Most wealthy people aren't that liquid. Their wealth is in land or crops or overpriced art objects like paintings or sculpture. Maybe your campaigns have gold flowing through them, but that means the profit motive is less impactful for the average NPC.
Even if it isn’t permanent, the fact that you could temporarily make it a +3 and then sell it before the oil wears off is still hilarious! Unless detect magic allows for specifically identifying the type of magic imbues on an item, the average ship keeper isn’t a retired wizard who can tell the difference, so make that bank! Lol
Yeah I was going to say that a lot of these issues are solved by requiring attunement. As a dm, I would also say that familiar can't attune for "reasons" (most likely lack intelligence) When you only have 3 slots, you need to really decide what to use your gold on and have on your character. I would also make it take a long rest to UN attune along with attunement
+1 to not allowing familiars to attune to anything. I also think that while carrying small items is fine, they shouldn't be able to activate them (especially if they can't talk).
I think Attunement should only be reserved for either the really strong items or boost the selected items to %50 extra power? Personally i cant why some items are perfectly fine by itself and others need you pondering the o r b.
10:45 This is why magic items and magic item creation is in the DMG not PHB. Just like Bastions. Its a feature that the DM can unlock when they feel its good for the story. If these are meant to be used without DM buy-in, the rules would be in the PHB. But that also has several caveats. We've all had those campaigns where we have WAY too much gold and the campaign is a cat/mouse style campaign where the players NEVER get downtime to do anything, so the gold just sits there and piles up. We've had campaigns where there is plenty of gold and the downtime, but the DM or adventure isn't seeding any magic items so players begin to feel underpowered. There have been games where the players may be forced to take extended downtime due to winter arriving and causing the party to be stuck in a town for days or weeks. Not every game of D&D is the same and this will be a boon or bane at tables. I think it's awesome there are, finally, clear crafting rules for those times where enough game time exists to do something like this. Nothing stops the DM from making the items require a special component and turn it into a a single session side-quest. D&D isn't an MMO that gets a patch that breaks the game in some way until a new patch is pushed that fixes it. The table has the power to adjust the ebb and flow of these things as needed.
But is it broken? This channel and many others are all about broken combos. Have these rules been ran, as is, in a game that Shorts has played? Or you or me? I doubt considering the DMG is so new. Its worth seeing how these rules play out over the next few months to see if they actually need table to table adjustments.
Also, the argument that it's in the DMG so it's up to DM discretion is bogus. Once it's in the game, player will see it not as an optional rule set but as part of the core rules, which these are! You will never get around the new dynamic of feeling like you are taking something away from the game and players now. With so many crafting systems out there that are better, why would you put this broken thing into it? I know why. Because similar to Bethesda, Hasbro now depends on the modding community to fix their hastily put together product.
Me and a friend played through Solasta, which was a dnd 5e SRD based game and one cool part with the crafting in that, is that contributing party members could cover missing skill proficencies, so our dwarf fighter could forge a sword and in turn our wizard would handle the arcana part
Back in 3E my DM would have us spend experience points as part of crafting magic items. It represented giving some of your magic to the item. It also mitigated some of the OP issues because it meant you didn’t level up with the rest of the party. If I recall correctly it also took much longer.
That was actually part of the base crafting rules in 3E-3.5. It was part of why the original Artificer had an XP pool as a feature. It was meant to encourage some degree of crafting.
The rules need work, but attunement limits break most of these "breaks". Now, having a bastion in the right place with minions cranking out magic stuff to equip the peasantry better than the local nobles could cause some hilarious problems.
As a silver lining, these crafting rules sound like they might make for a good NPC artificer vendor: all about paying artists for their work, and it flips the issue on its head in that now you can get your specific magic item you want crafted *while YOU* go out and do the adventuring! Plus that NPC could wear many hats, like a quest-giver for specific materials for items, a source of those good good funny haha’s by their interactions and price setting based on how they feel about the party, have their standout feature be that they literally wearing many hats, or whatever else you want.
The thing that disappoints me with the crafting rules is that all of it has the proficiency in Arcana requirement. I feel like it would have been way cooler if you could work together as a party (i.e. crafting a new Axe for the barbarian, maybe they have the smiths tools and forge the head, the druid has woodcarvers tools and makes the handle, and the wizard has the arcana proficiency to magically weld them together, infusing it with power). Maybe makes it too complicated but just saying "Arcana is the new mandatory ability because without it, no crafting." just feels harsh.
Outside the box, make it Arcana or Religion. Next, what if there are specific blueprints and plans (Ala Bruenor and Aegis Fang) if you get all the materials, follow the arcane recipe (requires checks), spend the time and voila. Again, DM says yes or no...even on the crafting.
Definitely still perception, probably followed by stealth, deception, and athletics, but arcana’s in the top 5 - which, in fairness, I think it was already in the top 5; it’s just closer to edging its way into the number 4 spot.
An interesting way to curb the lack of interaction was solved by one of my first DM’s and good friend of mine, In order for us to craft an item, we had to go searching for a centerpiece (pearl, rare gemstone, bark from a sacred tree) in order to complete the piece. In exchange for putting the effort and risk into obtaining these centerpieces, the magic item we would craft would be altered in some way to better reflect the players, the magic qualities subtly being buffed to fit our builds or theming (a +1 axe doing a d4 fire damage for an elemental barbarian, etc).
At my table, these rules work as intended with 1 change. Once you craft the item you have to empower it. Killing a legendary monster and absorbing its essence into the item. Its still open and in the players hands.
Thanks for this video. You clearly demonstrated with magic items 2024 crafting need adjustment. Even without scroll crafting and using Thief or Quicken spell to double cast every round.
Well that all depends on the DM. Materials could range from hard to get to nearly impossible to find. The party has a 75% chance to find them, that doesn't mean they are for sale. Maybe getting the items revolves around a quest or must be stolen. Lots of ways around just giving these busted items away. If the DM is new to the game, you could easily use these mechanics until the game is no longer fun.
Given you need the correct skills, correct tools, the correct spells, and the correct materials plus time, it’s not as unbalanced as is being implied. These are functionally the same item creation rules for the 3e, 4e, and 5e System Reference Document, so it’s not like it’s a new set of rules no one has seen before (even if most people never bothered to read them). I’ve been using the D&D item creation rules since 3.0, and my 5e group has been using this version since we started playing 5e. It’s not broken when anyone can walk into a shop and buy the same thing, or loot the same thing from a corpse. The difference is guaranteeing you acquire it versus relying on a loot table roll.
@@jeffersonian000 TBH I hate magic item shops, it makes magic items so much less wondrous if you can just walk over to Wallgreens and buy one. Same with randomly determine loot. So boring, lame and meaningless. Magic items should be unique and meaningful, there should be a story behind how the party acquired them and who created it and why and how it ended up in that dungeon or in the possession of that monster.
@@agilemind6241 Magic is just technology, and finding magic items means your characters live in a post-apocalyptic world where the previous civilization left wondrous things behind. If that sounds a bit too sci-fi for you, that’s literally medieval people finding Roman artifacts. I am fine with players with the right skills putting in the effort to craft something special.
Also down time is limited as you are not working during a rest when traveling without getting exhaustion. I still prefer skill check rolls for quality of item(+1 sword = DC20 and DC 30 = +3 sword for example). The fact that people don’t consider how other parties and villains can use these items/consumables is sad. A Dragon with a Potion of Haste, a Potion of Heroism, and 2 potions of Invisibility makes all these combos seem small.
@@sidecharacter7165 Does that DC lower when someone fully specks into being the party crafter? Like Forge Cleric with the Crafter background and both crafter Critical Role feats?
@@xeath9992 No, I just give Expertise in the specific crafting tool(Smith or Enchanting per example) I also may allow the Reliable Talent in that skill as well. Forge cleric I homebrew Expertise in Smithing at Level 1. Different item materials have different Buffs or Debuffs to the roll. Pigiron is -1 and high quality iron adds a +1 to the smithing roll. I also do a give and take when it comes to spells. You can make an item with a passive effect for say Fire resistance. A 30 is when worn, a 20 requires Attunement, a 15 acts as the Absorb Elements Spell 1/Day, and a 10 breaks the item. I allow up to 4 enchantments and you can rework an enchanted item at a +5 to all new DC’s. I think healing potions work the best: base = DC15, greater = DC20, Superior =DC25, Supreme = DC30. Example potion maker: +1 Alchemy set at level5 with a +4Int(or Wis) mod and Expertise(+6). Player has enchanted gloves with Passive a Enhanced Ability Attuned. So a dedicated potion crafter would have Advantage at +11 before any material buffs. Expect a singular Greater or Superior potion of healing per downtime.(Assuming they bought or made the Attunement item)
The risk of losing the item is what curbs it's abuse. I'm already limited to three attunement slots as a not Artificer. Let me keep my nice items if I'm a considerate player. Early on I always tried insane, whacky, not quite peasant cannon but you get the idea kinda things. Because it's a game and it's fun and I'm creative and chaotic and an aspiring inventor; then I realized it was stressing my friend, so I changed my behavior, my whacky ideas would get floated by him if I could, if it was a spur of the moment thing I'd bring it up discretely. I'd stop trying to argue "but the science would work" and we were both happier. He let's me do more creative things, knowing I'm not trying to destroy the story, or break the game I just am chaos and sometimes that means getting to do weird things like skinning an enemy but keeping the muscles, blood vessels, etc on the skin, then "work the meat" to make an insane nightmare fuel armor. Although that wasn't D&D that was Mass Effect TTRPG and the creature I used was a collector. Canonically someone had to make the first suit of collector armor for commander Shepard in Mass Effect 2. I got to play an insane doctor and everyone else got to play someone deeply concerned about being checked up by me when they get injured. It's a win win!
@xeath9992 If you build your entire character around making items, including dedicating your precious feats to it, I think it's absolutely okay if you end up really good at it. Producing Very Rare items still takes, what, almost a year per item? And I definitely wouldn't allow the "I work 16-hour days to make it twice as fast" thing. If you are doing mentally (or physically) strenuous work, there's no way your productivity doesn't fall off dramatically after eight hours.
This kind of power is exactly what happened on my Westmarches Server, Bright Dawn. High magic can be fun! It heavily encourages Downtime usage, but you still WANT to go adventure all the time. Might not be for some styles of the game, but it’s perfect for Westmarches.
You did not just make this pun. Your pun pass has been revoked, and you are hereby banned from the Pun United Nations (P.U.N) and any associated groups.
10:45 the difference is that you players feel like the accomplished something when they crafted a magic item. They feel a bit more of a connection to it because they put thier time and energy into it, rather than being given in a random dungeon that may or may not have a benefit to the party.
This is how I am with my characters. Making items and spells that could go down in history with the likes of Mordenkainen and others, instead of bumming off their leftovers
@@asumax8That why i have a Thaumcraft 4 influence in my stuff, once you see the world in a thaumaturgical way everything just opens up for you because you research, experiment forcing reality to accept your tinkering and bam - Chain Lighting sword with a Tornado on command and that a Beginnier Item.
I wrote a crafting system and one feature was that the AC granted by Dragon Scale armor was based on the age of the dragon that the scales were taken from.
I did the same. The age determined the AC and the parts determined type of armor. Skin allowed for Leather/light armor, scales for medium, and larger scales and bone for heavy. I also made the resistance inheriant to the armor so it didn't require attunement to gain that or the AC bonus. I redesigned dragon armor in mine based off the black dragon armor in Kobold's Vault of Magic items
14:42 There's a reason for that: It's because they stack. If you just want the effect of one, it's uncommon but if you want to benefit from that effect again then you need an uncommon and rare item. It is actually pretty smart balancing.
I'm yet to find a DM that meets my desire to roleplay crafting. I always liked the idea of having the intention to craft a specific magic item and have it turn into a quest with a number of steps. These rules don't have to be busted.
Agreed. Though in my experience with it they either don't allow for the downtime the system requires or the DCs for checks are to demending, especially when its pass or fail no matter how for into the process you are. You could be 1 day or 3 months, one fail and its completely worthless
For me my idea is "While exploring you find something or see something that gives you a idea, you spend time to experiment on how that would work, refine it over a month to work properly and bam, magic item!" I think the harder parts is making the item.
@sathancat You are right... but as written they clearly ARE. 75% chance that the parts are available, no matter what, is just not a meaningful mechanic. Plus I don't know how many DMs are going to be interested in running a Monster Hunter game. At best, they'll probably let you build things out the enemies they were already planning on having you fight.
I like the crafting rules as well - and the idea of everyone having a Broom of Flying - that would be fine in my game because I make the Broom of Flying 2 handed and you have to have both hands on it to fly with it, so you can't do anything but fly - that's how I take care the Broom of Flying - other things understandable - but you have to have stuff for your monsters, if the PCs can do it so can they - love your videos.
I like the section of the DMG that is under the heading "Respect for the DM" where it talks about interpreting the rules in good faith and not in an exploitative way.
@@The_Real_Pseudonym based off the general complaining of DnD players, i can totally see the DM making you outlift a roided out dragon to get that one treasure you want. I think you should be able to craft the item at %75 power and need rich stuff to make it at %100 and %125 power
@orbracha25 Eh... I think there's fun to be had in, "Okay, what can we do with what we have?" as opposed to, "I have a super-niche build that only works if I get certain magic items" (e.g. STR-dump Ftr or Barb) and then act like the DM is a jerk for not immediately providing them.
@@mythaniakeroberos2405Never played that game 😮 The best way i can sum up DnD players as a whole are "warlock and paladin get dragged out to sea by b i g fish! Well you rolled a nat 20 you wanted something special!" Easy to be corrupted and usually have the notion wreck something.
The thing is, though all the problems you listed are valid there’s 1 thing you mentioned earlier that kinda invalidates them “Materials”. The problems you’ve describing are if you have the most lenient DM, but if you want people to go out there and explore to craft these items, give these items materials the players need to collect and find on top of the gold price and time needed
Holy goodness. Twist at the end. Chef’s kiss. Thank you. We are trying to make a game that is balanced, overpowered, and most importantly fun as all hell.
You are a mad man! I say this with great love of your use of game rules and as a G M myself I can say without a doubt I would love sit as a player, but as D M I might have to make you leave the table. For you have an evil mind for combos, happy new year!!
15:34 "Hunt down a dragon, defeat it, and craft armour from its scales." Okay, but don't be surprised if the dragon's relatives hunts down your family, and then uses their powdered bones for some magical item themselves.
Have you done or considered doing anything with Baldurs Gate 3? I knows it’s a huge entry point for people into D&D and it would be cool seeing your take on it. Maybe comparing it to the real game, suggestions for cool builds or even just lore and D&D related tidbits. I’ve never played a full campaign of D&D myself, and my entry was Dimension 20 Fantasy High. I think it would be cool to use BG3 to teach people how to prepare for a tabletop campaign, maybe go over what’s the same, what’s different and how the video game can prepare you or even hinder you when getting into a campaign.
Another new video from the man himself thank you I needed this the presentation of information is just more intriguing and fun which I can then turn each section of this video into a several hour expansion having fun with each mechanic and concept before making my own creative innovation thank you for the entertainment and inspiration 🎉 🔥 👏
Cool to see the VLDL crew! Love those guys! Also thanks for explaining how broken crafting is XD And bruh, 5 days downtime would be an AMAZING roleplaying opportunity! Imagine being able to walk around, collect information, maybe clean up the riffraff on the streets, help some kindly old ladies, etc? Explore some player backstories?
Yeah, I'm going to have to replan my artificer house rule. Didn't realize just how broken this would be. (Basic thought was that the class made you twice as fast at crafting, and twice again if it's part of your known infusions bumped to three times if you are just making an already infused item permanent)
@D&Dshorts - plz read, colab offer included. hmm they got rid completely of the XP cost to crafting from older versions then. Silly silly.. btw those XP costs were NOT supposed to be the crafters XP except in emergencies.. it was supposed to be the XP from a bound spirit/elemental, a negotiation with a demon or a god, a ritual sacrifice etc etc.. Those were great RP opportunities, and a big part of being a magic user of any class. That's the fix btw - require the crafter to find a magical power source of some kind - be it a soul, a pact, a bargain, an ebberon dragon shard, a bound spirit.. whatever. Also the prices of those items are INSANE... peasants would be making gloves of ogre power rather than feeding an ox for its life time. Also - more of this type of content plz.. this is what I like. My 'old man' advice to young DM's make the player that wants to craft an item: 1. know what that item is, and how to craft it... make them STUDY. 2. find a power source - simple example will be a rare gem that contains magic power - like a dragon shard from ebberon, a much better version though is binding a demon.. with all the risks (and roleplay) that entails, or making a ritual sacrifice, or dealing with a spirit. As DnD shorts points out.. body parts from certain monsters is also a great choice for a power source. 3. limit what CAN be crafted based on the caster levels of the character.. a wizards apprentice is not going to be making a staff of power! 4. let them TRY to craft things outside of their level of expertise and knowledge.. how else do you think d&d got filed with cursed items. As a veteran DM (35+ years) I have required all of the above depending on the game. If you want D&D shorts, im happy to colab with you and write up a concise version of all these OLD rules for 5th - though ill need your help with the 5th ed specifics (i have played 5th, but no expert). The rules im talking about were from 2nd ed to 3.5 and various splat books and house rulings.
The best solution for any situation like this is to always just talk to your fellow players. I have a player in one of my games that brought over an existing character from a previous campaign, who happens to have a +3 Vorpal Longsword. I explained that while the power of that blade would throw the entire game’s balance out the window, I am not simply removing it from his character. Instead, it’s being used as a beacon that acts as a link between his character, and the Great Big Helper Guy who gives advice when the players ask for it, and I plan to give the blade back when the final showdown with the BBEG comes around.
I have several players that are interested in crafting, so it has featured heavily at my table. A way I throttle the the speed of crafting is a variation of the forced march rules in the 2014 PHB (p. 181) where I allow crafting more than 8hrs in a day, but after 8 hours I call for a CON SAV every 2 hours with DC 10 + 2 for every successive save. On a fail they take a level of exhaustion. Gives them the option to try pushing through and even if they fail the first save they are making 1.25 days of progress per day then using a long rest to drop that exhaustion. Edit: The 2014 DMG and XGE also specify that the formula for crafting an item is required in order to know how to make it. I sneak crafting formulas into the loot of certain baddies and use the Hammund's guides to award components for crafting. I'll likely stick to that even if the 2024 DMG doesn't require it.
In my game, a player wanted to craft magic items. They were a forge cleric too. So I took some inspiration from Xanathar’s guide and put the requirement that you need a formula to follow and came up with key ingredients needed for different things. Or, if they were able to stick in the group longer, I would have let them attempt to devise new magic items formulas. This meant they needed not only the gold but also the formula and if they went out to get the ingredients themselves it was cheaper. They also wanted to gain a weapon proficiency without taking a feat, so we came up with rules for that too. But the problem with rules like these is that they need to be clear, organized, else they can become messy. One possible fix for the magic items here could be to add a “complexity” level to each item. To represent the difficulty of crafting them. Maybe something like, a potion of healing is a 1 with a 75% chance of finding all ingredients, and a broom of flying is an 11. Double digit items could indicate that a key ingredient is very unlikely to be found in town, 5-10% maybe, to encourage adventure. Adjust prices and time based on complexity level.
Officially, they would have to introduce some erratas to the crafting system with an expansion. Likely, that expansion book will also include the revised Artificer class and Forge Domain for the Cleric, and maybe some new crafting-oriented subclasses for some of the other classes
The reason for the difference in rarity of the cloak of protection and the ring of protection is likely (and I am guessing here) because you can only have one cloak on but you can wear 2 rings. Therefore since you are giving up your one cloak slot for protection the item has a lower rarity and thus easier to obtain. Since the ring only takes up 1/2 your ring slots its more rare and harder to obtain.
@@robertmore703 did I say anything about wearing a 2nd ring of protection? No. I was only saying you have 2 ring slots therefore a ring is a better item to have as you can wear a ring of protection AND another ring (feather fall for example) whereas if you have a cloak of whatever that is the ONLY cloak you can wear.
@@robertmore703 DMG p 141 MULTIPLE ITEMS OF THE SAME KIND Use common sense to determine whether more than one of a given kind of magic item can be worn. A character can't normally wear more than one pair of footwear, one pair of gloves or gauntlets, one pair of bracers, one suit of armor, one item of head wear, and one cloak. You can make exceptions; a character might be able to wear a circlet under a helmet, for example, or be able to layer two cloaks. So while its under "common sense" there is a rule that typically you cannot do this and its by DM exception if you can. I allow multiple amulets as those are not bulky or going to interfere with each other however multiple cloaks is pushing this boundary of common sense for magic items though I will grant it could make sense depending on the cloaks' powers. That said I see this does not mention multiple rings and since we have 10 fingers and as many toes you could wear up to 20 rings or (more possibly) however attunement slots are still going to be the limiting factor as the vast majority of magic rings require attunement
I think the Cloak vs ring of protection rarity is two-fold: - The cloak slot is pretty contested, many good uncommon and rare 'back items" (cloak, mantle, cape) are about: elvenkind, protection, manta, displacement, spell resistance, mountebank, and a bunch of fun common ones. Whereas you can stack up on rings, depending the table's rules - limited by attunement, of course - Getting 1 is pretty doable. Getting a second item (stacking) becomes more expensive --> doable to get the uncommon one, adding a second requires the rare cost /my 2cp
Me, I never got into playing 4 or 5e myself, played different versions of 2nd as well as 3/3.5 for years, still play 3/3.5 when I can. As a DM I never had a problem with folks taking downtime for crafting, it was an investment to prep for the next leg of the campaign, something they did looking forward to the next adventure, especially if they are having to winter for months while things shut down do too the environment. That also being said, it cost a LOT more back in 3rd, thousands of gold to but even a simple magic item, half the market value to craft it yourself plus a days work per 1,000 gp of market value or portion there of. And an XP cost, which some hate but I always felt it was never too high, easy to make up by going out and doing a few randoms, and made you think about its cost more, plus it's not like there wasn't ways to get your party members to "help" with that cost, just look up old dragon magazine articles and such, spells for "soul stealing" XP to fuel crafting existed. (Yes, just for crafting can't level with these) But yeah, 200 gold for a permeant flight speed 50 is insane to me, for reference, in 3rd it was 17,000 gp, only did a speed of 40, max carrying of 400lbs (including rider) speed dropping to 30 past 200 pounds. 200 for speed 50 and no problems with weight?!?
How I do crafting is that it takes 10 business days so 60 hours for a uncommon ad 5 days for each rarity up I also have it costs half as much as the item you need to adventure to gain the gold you need to do this there are also arcana skills checks you need to get a 10 to gain normal time a 5 for half and a 5 for double if below a 5 quarter the time if above a 20 triple it (also my players often only want weaker ones I also only let them start at level 6)
Random comment but I've taken in my GMing that to make magic items is more than just "knowledge" to help limit things like this (in 3rd ed). Your anvil has to be magic, the fire that heats, the wood working mats or hammer...ect...Inspiration came when I looked at my friends woodworking shop and he had tons of specialty equipment and watching blacksmiths on youtube. This also helped me keep pc's with sticky fingers from stealing magic items generally because any created were not "activated" which required a special strike from a hammer or a magic word....and only the one creating the magic item knew what was missing from the magic equation to activate it. THis also made find magic forges from ancient people much more exciting to find.
2 quick adds to make it more engaging. 1. instead of it being a 75% chance of getting the materials in a city, start at 50% for common and decrease it by that by 10% for each level of rarity. It would be a lot easier to get them from monsters and the environment... so a Cloak of protection would require the tendons of a Aberration, Dragonkin, or Outsider with natural armor. A city would have a 40% chance of having it, but if you go out hunting for one of these creatures, there's an 80% chance they'll have it. 2. Have it take an Arcana or Tool Use check of 10 for uncommon and an additional 5 for every rarity level over that. So, a Cloak of Protection would take a 15 Arcana check. You get advantage with one being helping you, and each being in addition to that would reduce the DC by 1. So, a Broom of Flying would take a 15 Arcana or Woodworking Tools check. If Chentey enlists the help of Orym and Caleb. He has advantage on the check and it's reduced by one, so Cheteny needs a 14 Woodworking with advantage. He has a 7 because of his Dexterity and Woodworking Tools Proficiency. Chetney rolls a 9 and a 13, giving him a dirty 20. I'd add as a DM, a lower DC if everyone says what they're doing to help. Orym's gathering supplies, and Caleb is looking into lore for the most efficient way for building it. That would lower the DC by another point, making it a 13.
Solasta: Crown of the Magister has my personal favorite crafting system in any rpg, tabletop or otherwise. It requires you to know the recipe of what you want to make, as well as having the required materials. Then, for every hour you work on it, you need to make a check with a DC varying on the item. The amount of time it takes also varies. As an example, here is what you need to make a +1 weapon: 1) The recipe for the +1 weapon you want to make 2) A "primed" weapon you want to make a +1 weapon 3) A bottle of "Oil of Acuteness" 4) X hours, X being how long it takes for you to get 12 successes on a DC 14 Intelligence check that you are proficient in (can be done during long rests) 5) proficiency with a rosary set, used for enchanting weapons And that is for just one of the +1 weapons. The oil isn't very rare, but the primed weapons and recipes can be. Unless you know who to buy them from, of course.
I have no problem with +1 items and level 1 spells being easy to obtain. It's a lot better than many of the broken builds you have shown in your videos. I typically hand out these types of items anyways, now I can let the players build them instead.
As for Ring of Protection and Cloak of Protection being different rarity. In previous condition, magic items took one of the limited body slots (ie: Cloak took the throat slot, and Rings took 1 of the 2 ring slots). I would imagine this may be why. I don't many DMs that would allow a character to wear more than one cloak (especially any that require attunements).
Also! The thing you said about the Gauntlets of Ogre Power also apply to the Headband of Intellect. As an Eldritch Knight Fighter or Arcane Trickster, you can dump Intelligence and be rocking an Intelligence that’s even better than even late-game EKs and ATs. Also if you’re multi-classing into an Intelligence class, you can safely use Attack-Roll and DC spells like Chromatic Orb, Hold Person, etc.
I've tried to make crafting work as a character concept but its honestly quite a lot harder than JUST doing it. 1. For one the DM decides how much gold you get your hands on. 2. Time between adventures and having to juggle long rests. 3, You need the knowledge to craft it. 4. you need special materials and it often clashes with the any flow of an adventure because the DM decides what you get. I can see it as a if your players are in on it you can give them crafting materials as loot but you as a DM needs to facilitate it and make them exited on the prospect to craft a superweapon. In other words it needs to be worked into the adventure because if not it becomes a side quest that just bogs the adventure down.
I recognize that ring in the thumbnail! It’s the Eye of the Tiger! (It’s the thrill of the fight!) Seriously though, I really want to run an adventure centered around getting that busted Rakshasa eye ring!
easy fix for that first problem you brought up: Go monster hunter style. In order to make this magic item, you need 200 gold of common materials, arcane expertise, tools etc etc, but you ALSO need certain materials that can only be acquired either from a certain monster, or in a dangerous place with monsters in it. Now, the crafting is a quest hook and can easily be explained because your average magic shop owner cant go take out a displacer beast for the materials. That's where you and your adventuring team comes in!
Me and my friends are currently playing improvised campaign. The plan is to craft items while traveling with a Caravan or hired cart. We also don't have perfect skills for crafting so only some of us will be working while others drive. And since we are going to craft on the run, our DM can still throw bandits or other random encounter to interrupt the travel and thus the crafting process
Also we are not using gold directly. Our dm said that if we want to craft magic armour we will first need to find 20 lb of mythril. So we are going on a quest to obtain materials first anyway. Effectively it might actually be harder than just buying complete item
I made one change to the RAW rules w regard to how the magic is infused into the item. I made it so that the spell must not only be cast on the item, but that it must be maintained for the entire time the item is being crafted. This makes instantaneous spells essentially useless except for scrolls. But making a +1 weapon will require figuring out the logistics of maintaining a 1hr duration second level spell around the clock for the entire duration of the crafting process. A +1 dagger would be relatively easy to achieve. A +1 greatsword is a major logistical challenge.
Honestly, as much as people are worried about this in my six years of being a dungeon master I have never come across any of the combos from this channel. Mainly because a lot of players are not really all that interested in being super powerful. Most Dnd players are not coming to this channel and they’re not interested in Building ridiculous combos. Mainly because they have things to do and families to take care of, and they just have other things to do with their time. The only person who would be at all informed in any of my groups about what’s going on with the game would be me and I am the dungeon master. Most of the players either didn’t know or didn’t care to know. They just liked coming to Game every week.
I think the whole reason these rules are in the DMG is so it’s the DMs discretion if/when players get to craft stuff, and there isn’t an encyclopaedia in universe for magic items- they’d still need to do research etc. have it address the players needs, rather than just giving them everything
DnD should be a high magic game. Magic items should be accessible and it can’t be too powerful or broken because anything the players can do so can the DM but not vice versa.
Honestly I feel that showing which items require attunement is so important. While I feel that yeah, some of this may be really strong, a majority of items, including enspelled items and the broom of flying, require attunement. Sure you can craft a bunch of busted stuff, but if you can only use three of them at a time, it does balance it at least to an extent.
All the way back to AD&D 1E (yes, I am that old, lol) my DMs and me as well when I DMed would allow magic item crafting but magic items other than simple potions like Healing would require special components that you could not buy but you would usually have to adventure and quest to find. Actually, now that I think of it, even healing potions required troll blood from my first DM. This still requires some DM alteration of the rules but with a story-driven in-game solution. Consumable items would be easier to craft than permanent items, which would give a taste of magic item excitement without permanently altering PC and party power levels. The important thing to incorporate when using harvesting rules is to require that what is harvested must be fresh for crafting or else your PCs will just cut up every monster they meet and and have a warehouse full of monster body parts and body fluids, lol.
I love crafting, and 5e was horribly bad for it, imo, so I love that they are bringing it back finally. It should be based upon adventures and finding components, much like the Loot Tavern system is being built around (which you mentioned eventually lol)
Solution is simple: 1-rise cost of crafting and magic items if they are so easy to craft or acquire 2- crafting requires recipes that can be find during adventures. 3-getting gold in town is extremely inefficient and slow. This way they would need to explore to get money and recipes or wait years in story to accumulate enough money to actually buy stuff they want.
I tend to tie it into the world: Yes, there's a 75% chance that the raw matterial are available in a city. That is: available to everybody: Suppose a nearby Mages guild is buying up all the resources, now the PCs have to go convince them to share some. Or the merchant decides to auction of the materials off to the highest bidder, driving up the price. Or the last two shipments of materials have gone missing during transport and the merchant is asking the PCs to go check that out. Or an npc suggest they use his cheaper materials, black moon rock works just as well as green moon rock afterall and those rumours about a curse are just that, rumours.
honestly, a chunk of the "work overtime to get a ton of stuff" side of things could be covered by a homebrew rule of instituting a "cooldown" period after crafting. Flavor it as being magically "burnt out" or the like.
So tired of people complaining about crafting. it has a place. dnd is a creative game, crafting an idea in a fantasy world is creativity. A game without this possibility is like a house where all the furniture is covered in plastic so you cant Actually touch anything.
Most of the "broken combos" mentioned require attunement. Enspelled weapons and armor, broom of flying, gauntlets of ogre power, cloak of protection. Each character can only use three at once. Also, I'm not sure you can do 16 hours of work in a day. The dmg specifically says you must spend 8 hours of work per day. Not saying this mechanic could get really out of Hand but it does give us something to finally spend all that gold and downtime on. :)
For the record: I'm in a double-didgit level campaign right now and this mechanic provides the benefit of being able to construct a low-to-mid level magic item we might not be able to acquire otherwise but would allow for smoother gameplay ... especially useful if a creative spellcaster can up the CR ability of a party this way to move the campaign forward faster than the DM anticipated. The DM gets to play with more-and-higher-level challenges faster and the players get to enjoy the dopamine hit of pwning the DM's baddies in less time than anticipated.
"useful if a creative spellcaster can up the CR ability of a party this way to move the campaign forward faster than the DM anticipated" Why do you want to stress out the DM by forcing them to skip stuff in their campaign or redesign stuff or improvise stuff they haven't yet had time to prepare because you jumped ahead through 2 months worth of content by making your characters OP? And on the flip side: Why do you want to end the campaign faster? If you aren't enjoying the campaign why are you still with the group?
The simplest "fix" for the crafting rules would be to add a skill check, or two, based on the complexity or rarity of the item. A crafting check to get it looking good and an arcana check for the enchantment. Fail the roll and you wasted the money. Common DC 10, uncommon DC 15, rare DC 20, very rare DC 25, legendary DC 30 (there is a reason they are legendary). However, almost everyone will have some way to make the check with advantage, so it isn't a big limitation. A level 5 wizard will probably have +10 arcana and with advantage they will have no problem crafting uncommon or even rare gear, but there is some risk and at least it deters lvl1 characters trying to risk everything on a crafting roll. What I'd also do is add in a crafting formula cost, just as wizards pay to learn spells, make people have to seek out and pay for crafting formulae, with crafters often jealously guarding their lore. Typically the same as the crafting cost. Crafting becomes less cost effective unless you are making multiples of each thing, Then throw in a chance of random quirks for each item crafting formula. Maybe your broom of flying will always leave a trail of pink smoke behind it, or it glows with arcane light. If you want one without that quirk, you need to hunt out another formula. Designing your own formula will take 10 times as long as crafting, with a 5 point higher target number, but at least it allows you to specify any quirks, if any. The people who first worked out designs for legendary items were truly legendary wizards.
Argument for the Broom of Flying: Roleplay. As a current ForeverDM I often use NPCs to experiment things I want to achieve if I was a player, once such example was a voodoo warlock of the Undying (Her patrons were the Samedi Loa) who used a Broom of Flying to "skateboard" around, wielding a sledgehammer as a scepter for her spell focus. She favored using electricity-based spells in addition to necromancy and curses, Call Lightning being her favourite as I could fly her up to the cloud she summoned and stick her hammer in it to charge a bolt to throw at someone Zeus-Mjolnir style. (I know it's a Druid spell, but when it comes to Warlock spell choices that use lightning, you have Lightning Lure, Witch Bolt and Elemental Bane). Another example of messing with magic items for roleplay was an intimidation factor when I let a Monk get a Dancing Morningstar from a Cloud Giant... it was a Giant's Morningstar, but since it was Dancing, she could pretend to carry it effortlessly to freak people out. The party bard and artificer got involved and turned it into a floating megaspeaker to blast death metal for extra intimidation, it was thought of as music and incantations to summon demon lords.
The thing I have always liked about crafting mechanics is the customization it enables. It's a way to express creativity. Why would I want to spend my time making something standard that I can probably find in a big city, when I could add more features to my Sonic Screwdriver? Sure, it's just flavor on top of basic spell effects that any mid-level wizard can cast with a second thought, but it's fun!
One thing that I think could have gone a long way towards saving this system is a much stronger focus on the required materials, and making that an avenue for the players to go out exploring. a given magic item doesn't really have to list the required materials, there should honestly just be a "DM's advice" type section where it explains this and some things to keep in mind when creating material-gathering quests/adventures. All that said, some skill checks would also have been nice
XGTE already had good crafting rules that gave DM’s the tools they needed to weave crafting components into their campaigns. They also included complications during crafting so that the process didn’t feel cheap by just guaranteeing a magic item with money time and skill. We had Artificers for a reason after all.
Agreed, and how many new players are reading the rules for crafting? There are the few that do, in my experience, because they want to craft items, but the rest of the party may not be on board. At our table, crafting usually means you found something to make the item with, or you're paying a premium to get the material, and it works great, though we haven't tried the newest version of crafting.
My way of handling crafting is I double all prices and allow players to collect materials to reduce the price by using the needed materials instead of the need to buy the materials too Some materials for some stuff just straight up doesn't exist in some areas and stuff. Worked out well so far
As a fighter I think instead of shield I would probably prefer Shield of faith on them because of con save proficiency it’ll likely help you out longer in combat than 6 uses of shield.
Here are my Homebrew magic item rules. Easily superior to this. The cost to create/research magic items is full cost in that bracket, 500gp uncommon, 5000gp rare, 50,000gp Very Rare, 500,000gp Legendary If you acquire a rare and suitable component from a slain monster you may reduce the cost to create the item by half. The CR of monster relates to if its suitable for Items of a specif rarity. CR 6 or Less Uncommon, CR 7-10 Rare, CR 11-16 Very Rare, CR 17+ Legendary. So if you take the skin of a a CR 2 Ogre to use as tanned leather and turn into gloves you can create Gauntlets of Ogre power for only 250gp. Note that materials need to be harvested and preserved for use as soon as the monster is slain. Cant use rotted skin in your gauntlets. DM decides whats a suitable component for an item, as well as other proficiencies and spells needed for each item. For the gauntlets example, leather working skill and enhance ability spell seems appropriate. This creates a fun reason to harvest monster parts and create items based on the adventures you have had and since the cost is so high it discourages making items over adventuring to find them. I use specific formula for crafting artifacts that must be found and take entire adventures to complete. gathering multiple unique components spells and crafting skills and methods required. This can be retooled to put a cap on rarity it can be used for Very Rare and Greater items for instance. these cannot be made unless you find a specific formula. Now to go back to my game where my players are seeking to acquire the hollowed out skull of a true giant and convert it into an anvil, the heart of an ancient dragon to be bled into the hollowed out skull as a quenching pool, a 100 pound admantium block, a 20 pound mithril shaft. 100,000 Gp of gems and diamond dust to Forge a Hammer of Thunderbolts all done during an active thunderstorm, that must last at least one week.
@@The_Real_Pseudonym Yeah I know that. I have fixed it with homebrew. But if you are forced to uses the core than the only useful items are the most powerful. and any new homebrew needs to be balanced around those.
...this is why you make finding the components for the item a quest in and of itself. Want an enchanted sword? Get an ounce of starmetal - might have to search for a while. Want a demonbane weapon? Get a feather from an angel, archon or deva. Those aren't found in the regular spell component stores...
I think that people forget that risk and difficulty make games interesting (golf vs. putting a ball in the hole. Also, if Crafting were that easy, tyrants would have magic armies and a magic arms race would ensure. As Syndrome said, once everyone is special, then no one is special. I love Artificers, but I think that they should be miserly with their secrets. You should hunt for masters to apprentice and for lost recipes as wll as components. I would make Crafting with hard to get materials that have limited shelf life and limits to charges. Have a few legendary items and items that have more than one function and have more than one component. And the potential to blow up. But that's just me.
Ibelieve the difference in rarity between the Cloak and Ring of Protection is because you can wear 2 rings, but just 1 cloak. So you can combo your ring with say a Ring of Warmth when you need it, but that cloak of protection means you can't use the cape of the montebank.
Great vid with great points! Hey... I know those 2 guys on the left! There vids are hilarious! So cool to see content creators I like in the vids of other creators I like. Why aren't you in some of their game videos?? That would be awesome!
I already started thinking crafting was kinda crazy just from the Nonmagical stuff. Even designed a Forge Cleric that gets proficiency in all the big tools and would become the party Blacksmith. (Searing Smite and Magic Weapon’s buffs are also big factors, and Fabricate is very nice)
Thank you to Holzkern for sponsoring this video! Click my link www.holzkern.com/dndshorts to save up to 30% site-wide in their biggest sale of the year-limited time only!
Perhaps alternatively they could "re‐craft" an existing magic item. Like I have a magic cloak of type A and certain rarity and for X amount of gold, time and maybe another specific magic item we can "re-craft" it into a different magic item cloak. Like turning a cape of the montebank into a cloak of displacement for a bunch of gold, displacer beast tentacles, 2 spell scrolls of blur and some down time in a special (potentially dangerous area).
Uhm Will, I had donated a bunch of things during the livestream, but I have never been contacted about the donation reward. (My tablet was having issues at the time, I wanted the 1-shot with you!)
Thanks Jeff
So, two things. The first is that this doesn't really seem like it's too much different than the magic item crafting system that was in one of the books for the original version of 5e- I don't remember which, I think it was Xanathars guide. Maybe a little bit more fleshed out, I don't think you needed arcane proficiency with that one, and I'm pretty sure you needed spell slots. But its otherwise not that different.
The second is that I see a really simple way to keep this from getting out of hand. That being that if you want to create a magic item that does anything other than just add a plus one to something, you either need to find a schematic in game, you need to find either a schematic on how to build one, or notes on how to build one, or you need to find the magic item itself and study it intensely for roughly the same amount of time that it would take for you to craft the item. Maybe shorten it with some checks that are successful. Also doing so would destroy the item that you found. This would let you control what items your party is getting in the same way that finding an item would.
6:38 please tell me what show or movie that was 🤣
@@alvinleonardo1263 It looks like "The Monkey King" (2023, Netflix)
Solution: Require quests to get the materials. You want to make a belt of giant strength? Now you need a lock of giant's hair. Go out and slay one, or convince a giant to give you one, or break into a giant's stronghold to sneak into their bedroom and steal it while they sleep - And now you have a bunch of fun, potential quest hooks that end up in a reward that the players sought out!
The simplest and most sensible solution; magic items shouldn’t just be equipment you churn out as you increase your skills like in Skyrim or WoW, they should be something that *utilizes the fiction!*
@@mikehab7453Agreed. Bonus points if you can tie them into your players' backstory in some way.
So... Heliana
Other options :- incorporating story reasons to make it so that material trade into towns is halted until something is resolved, preventing the party from lingering in the same place to just reroll material checks and instead seeking out the trouble to unlock the area.
Introduce regional items so that you can enforce restrictions on access to the more overpowered items outside of the starting area of a campaign and thus encourage exploration.
Create a global guild for crafting that requires members complete certain quests or achieve feats skill in order to be able to use the forges and such where items can be made, promotes RP with NPCs and gives each town an established and deliberate point of interest for players to want to seek out on their own which you can then use to have story events to occur near to or with.
Just a couple off the head thoughts, there's plenty more of potential ways to twist the mechanic to yours and players liking from the ground work presented.
That’s what the money is for. You don’t just evaporate 2000gp to sniff the fumes and a magic sword pops into existence. Those materials are accounted for in the rules.
Me when I brew oils of sharpness a consumable magic item, for 10 thousand gold and use it on a weapon and sell it for 40 thousand
Permanent +3 weapon with a very rare potion is hilarious
??? Who has that kind of wealth? The king? A high-powered fighter knight? Most wealthy people aren't that liquid. Their wealth is in land or crops or overpriced art objects like paintings or sculpture. Maybe your campaigns have gold flowing through them, but that means the profit motive is less impactful for the average NPC.
😂😂😂@@lmt831
Even if it isn’t permanent, the fact that you could temporarily make it a +3 and then sell it before the oil wears off is still hilarious! Unless detect magic allows for specifically identifying the type of magic imbues on an item, the average ship keeper isn’t a retired wizard who can tell the difference, so make that bank! Lol
@brandonwyman9125 average shop keeper also cant/wont buy that shit lol
Broom of Flying does require attunement now. I would like to mention that.
Meh.
Yeah I was going to say that a lot of these issues are solved by requiring attunement. As a dm, I would also say that familiar can't attune for "reasons" (most likely lack intelligence)
When you only have 3 slots, you need to really decide what to use your gold on and have on your character. I would also make it take a long rest to UN attune along with attunement
+1 to not allowing familiars to attune to anything. I also think that while carrying small items is fine, they shouldn't be able to activate them (especially if they can't talk).
I absolutely despise the attunement system. One thing I really wish WotC would steal from Pathfinder.
I think Attunement should only be reserved for either the really strong items or boost the selected items to %50 extra power?
Personally i cant why some items are perfectly fine by itself and others need you pondering the o r b.
10:45 This is why magic items and magic item creation is in the DMG not PHB. Just like Bastions. Its a feature that the DM can unlock when they feel its good for the story. If these are meant to be used without DM buy-in, the rules would be in the PHB. But that also has several caveats. We've all had those campaigns where we have WAY too much gold and the campaign is a cat/mouse style campaign where the players NEVER get downtime to do anything, so the gold just sits there and piles up. We've had campaigns where there is plenty of gold and the downtime, but the DM or adventure isn't seeding any magic items so players begin to feel underpowered. There have been games where the players may be forced to take extended downtime due to winter arriving and causing the party to be stuck in a town for days or weeks.
Not every game of D&D is the same and this will be a boon or bane at tables. I think it's awesome there are, finally, clear crafting rules for those times where enough game time exists to do something like this. Nothing stops the DM from making the items require a special component and turn it into a a single session side-quest. D&D isn't an MMO that gets a patch that breaks the game in some way until a new patch is pushed that fixes it. The table has the power to adjust the ebb and flow of these things as needed.
But is it broken? This channel and many others are all about broken combos.
Have these rules been ran, as is, in a game that Shorts has played? Or you or me? I doubt considering the DMG is so new.
Its worth seeing how these rules play out over the next few months to see if they actually need table to table adjustments.
Also, the argument that it's in the DMG so it's up to DM discretion is bogus. Once it's in the game, player will see it not as an optional rule set but as part of the core rules, which these are!
You will never get around the new dynamic of feeling like you are taking something away from the game and players now.
With so many crafting systems out there that are better, why would you put this broken thing into it?
I know why. Because similar to Bethesda, Hasbro now depends on the modding community to fix their hastily put together product.
Concur. Wizards is setting up the DM to be the Bad Guy who has to say "no" and houserules out official content.
@@RumpusImperator And the DMG tells you it's the players who are being abusive because they use broken rules as they are written.
@@lore_shards WotC just wants to help people make a Living!
Also.. WotC isnt going to summon the pinkertons if you mod it 😂
Glad to see the VLDL footage. I watched that campaign in their channel. It looked like you all had a ton of fun
Me and a friend played through Solasta, which was a dnd 5e SRD based game and one cool part with the crafting in that, is that contributing party members could cover missing skill proficencies, so our dwarf fighter could forge a sword and in turn our wizard would handle the arcana part
Solasta 2 coming soon, I am excited
Back in 3E my DM would have us spend experience points as part of crafting magic items. It represented giving some of your magic to the item. It also mitigated some of the OP issues because it meant you didn’t level up with the rest of the party. If I recall correctly it also took much longer.
Thats why i like gold as XP.
That was actually part of the base crafting rules in 3E-3.5. It was part of why the original Artificer had an XP pool as a feature. It was meant to encourage some degree of crafting.
Didn't like it at all. It encouraged selfishness, as crafting for another party member felt soooo bad.
@@martl8615 Pretty realistic approach; giving away freebies does no mean anything unless there is a price-tag attached!
@@martl8615
We had it where helpers could also donate xp
The rules need work, but attunement limits break most of these "breaks". Now, having a bastion in the right place with minions cranking out magic stuff to equip the peasantry better than the local nobles could cause some hilarious problems.
As a silver lining, these crafting rules sound like they might make for a good NPC artificer vendor: all about paying artists for their work, and it flips the issue on its head in that now you can get your specific magic item you want crafted *while YOU* go out and do the adventuring!
Plus that NPC could wear many hats, like a quest-giver for specific materials for items, a source of those good good funny haha’s by their interactions and price setting based on how they feel about the party, have their standout feature be that they literally wearing many hats, or whatever else you want.
The thing that disappoints me with the crafting rules is that all of it has the proficiency in Arcana requirement. I feel like it would have been way cooler if you could work together as a party (i.e. crafting a new Axe for the barbarian, maybe they have the smiths tools and forge the head, the druid has woodcarvers tools and makes the handle, and the wizard has the arcana proficiency to magically weld them together, infusing it with power). Maybe makes it too complicated but just saying "Arcana is the new mandatory ability because without it, no crafting." just feels harsh.
This is how I plan on running it in my games. Maybe at the cost of increased time required, not sure yet.
Yeah they literally just made arcana the best skill in the game by far
Outside the box, make it Arcana or Religion. Next, what if there are specific blueprints and plans (Ala Bruenor and Aegis Fang) if you get all the materials, follow the arcane recipe (requires checks), spend the time and voila. Again, DM says yes or no...even on the crafting.
Definitely still perception, probably followed by stealth, deception, and athletics, but arcana’s in the top 5 - which, in fairness, I think it was already in the top 5; it’s just closer to edging its way into the number 4 spot.
@chrisscott9564 Just to clarify, you only need the Arcana skill when you’re trying to craft a magic item. You don’t need Arcana for nonmagical items.
An interesting way to curb the lack of interaction was solved by one of my first DM’s and good friend of mine,
In order for us to craft an item, we had to go searching for a centerpiece (pearl, rare gemstone, bark from a sacred tree) in order to complete the piece. In exchange for putting the effort and risk into obtaining these centerpieces, the magic item we would craft would be altered in some way to better reflect the players, the magic qualities subtly being buffed to fit our builds or theming (a +1 axe doing a d4 fire damage for an elemental barbarian, etc).
At my table, these rules work as intended with 1 change. Once you craft the item you have to empower it. Killing a legendary monster and absorbing its essence into the item.
Its still open and in the players hands.
Thanks for this video. You clearly demonstrated with magic items 2024 crafting need adjustment. Even without scroll crafting and using Thief or Quicken spell to double cast every round.
Well that all depends on the DM. Materials could range from hard to get to nearly impossible to find. The party has a 75% chance to find them, that doesn't mean they are for sale. Maybe getting the items revolves around a quest or must be stolen. Lots of ways around just giving these busted items away. If the DM is new to the game, you could easily use these mechanics until the game is no longer fun.
Given you need the correct skills, correct tools, the correct spells, and the correct materials plus time, it’s not as unbalanced as is being implied. These are functionally the same item creation rules for the 3e, 4e, and 5e System Reference Document, so it’s not like it’s a new set of rules no one has seen before (even if most people never bothered to read them). I’ve been using the D&D item creation rules since 3.0, and my 5e group has been using this version since we started playing 5e. It’s not broken when anyone can walk into a shop and buy the same thing, or loot the same thing from a corpse. The difference is guaranteeing you acquire it versus relying on a loot table roll.
@@jeffersonian000 TBH I hate magic item shops, it makes magic items so much less wondrous if you can just walk over to Wallgreens and buy one. Same with randomly determine loot. So boring, lame and meaningless. Magic items should be unique and meaningful, there should be a story behind how the party acquired them and who created it and why and how it ended up in that dungeon or in the possession of that monster.
@@agilemind6241
Magic is just technology, and finding magic items means your characters live in a post-apocalyptic world where the previous civilization left wondrous things behind. If that sounds a bit too sci-fi for you, that’s literally medieval people finding Roman artifacts. I am fine with players with the right skills putting in the effort to craft something special.
Attunement Slots should curb this when introducing good magic items
Also down time is limited as you are not working during a rest when traveling without getting exhaustion. I still prefer skill check rolls for quality of item(+1 sword = DC20 and DC 30 = +3 sword for example). The fact that people don’t consider how other parties and villains can use these items/consumables is sad. A Dragon with a Potion of Haste, a Potion of Heroism, and 2 potions of Invisibility makes all these combos seem small.
@@sidecharacter7165 Does that DC lower when someone fully specks into being the party crafter? Like Forge Cleric with the Crafter background and both crafter Critical Role feats?
@@xeath9992 No, I just give Expertise in the specific crafting tool(Smith or Enchanting per example) I also may allow the Reliable Talent in that skill as well. Forge cleric I homebrew Expertise in Smithing at Level 1. Different item materials have different Buffs or Debuffs to the roll. Pigiron is -1 and high quality iron adds a +1 to the smithing roll.
I also do a give and take when it comes to spells. You can make an item with a passive effect for say Fire resistance. A 30 is when worn, a 20 requires Attunement, a 15 acts as the Absorb Elements Spell 1/Day, and a 10 breaks the item. I allow up to 4 enchantments and you can rework an enchanted item at a +5 to all new DC’s.
I think healing potions work the best: base = DC15, greater = DC20, Superior =DC25, Supreme = DC30.
Example potion maker: +1 Alchemy set at level5 with a +4Int(or Wis) mod and Expertise(+6). Player has enchanted gloves with Passive a Enhanced Ability Attuned. So a dedicated potion crafter would have Advantage at +11 before any material buffs. Expect a singular Greater or Superior potion of healing per downtime.(Assuming they bought or made the Attunement item)
The risk of losing the item is what curbs it's abuse. I'm already limited to three attunement slots as a not Artificer. Let me keep my nice items if I'm a considerate player.
Early on I always tried insane, whacky, not quite peasant cannon but you get the idea kinda things. Because it's a game and it's fun and I'm creative and chaotic and an aspiring inventor; then I realized it was stressing my friend, so I changed my behavior, my whacky ideas would get floated by him if I could, if it was a spur of the moment thing I'd bring it up discretely. I'd stop trying to argue "but the science would work" and we were both happier.
He let's me do more creative things, knowing I'm not trying to destroy the story, or break the game I just am chaos and sometimes that means getting to do weird things like skinning an enemy but keeping the muscles, blood vessels, etc on the skin, then "work the meat" to make an insane nightmare fuel armor. Although that wasn't D&D that was Mass Effect TTRPG and the creature I used was a collector. Canonically someone had to make the first suit of collector armor for commander Shepard in Mass Effect 2. I got to play an insane doctor and everyone else got to play someone deeply concerned about being checked up by me when they get injured. It's a win win!
@xeath9992 If you build your entire character around making items, including dedicating your precious feats to it, I think it's absolutely okay if you end up really good at it. Producing Very Rare items still takes, what, almost a year per item?
And I definitely wouldn't allow the "I work 16-hour days to make it twice as fast" thing. If you are doing mentally (or physically) strenuous work, there's no way your productivity doesn't fall off dramatically after eight hours.
This kind of power is exactly what happened on my Westmarches Server, Bright Dawn. High magic can be fun! It heavily encourages Downtime usage, but you still WANT to go adventure all the time. Might not be for some styles of the game, but it’s perfect for Westmarches.
0:27 Caught me off guard while I was getting ready for the day. Well played 😂
legendary fishing rod, so you can fish crits XD
You did not just make this pun. Your pun pass has been revoked, and you are hereby banned from the Pun United Nations (P.U.N) and any associated groups.
The kid that took that rod and ran off with it is long Gon. (Hunter X Hunter reference)
now I want that enchantment for both my Minecraft and d&d games
10:45 the difference is that you players feel like the accomplished something when they crafted a magic item. They feel a bit more of a connection to it because they put thier time and energy into it, rather than being given in a random dungeon that may or may not have a benefit to the party.
This is how I am with my characters. Making items and spells that could go down in history with the likes of Mordenkainen and others, instead of bumming off their leftovers
@@asumax8That why i have a Thaumcraft 4 influence in my stuff, once you see the world in a thaumaturgical way everything just opens up for you because you research, experiment forcing reality to accept your tinkering and bam - Chain Lighting sword with a Tornado on command and that a Beginnier Item.
Indeed, Why do i want to find lost artifacts of some old craftsmans glory, Shouldn't I want to create my own?
@Aichi1138 or do both. Find the lost ones and build something better after studying them
@asumax8 definately wouldn't mind it just need a GM that lets you build upon the base design, Like an upcast wand of magic missiles at a minimum
I wrote a crafting system and one feature was that the AC granted by Dragon Scale armor was based on the age of the dragon that the scales were taken from.
I did the same. The age determined the AC and the parts determined type of armor. Skin allowed for Leather/light armor, scales for medium, and larger scales and bone for heavy.
I also made the resistance inheriant to the armor so it didn't require attunement to gain that or the AC bonus. I redesigned dragon armor in mine based off the black dragon armor in Kobold's Vault of Magic items
"It's worth it to watch a mouse stand up on its hind legs and commit terrorism." I fuckin choked on my drink.
14:42 There's a reason for that: It's because they stack. If you just want the effect of one, it's uncommon but if you want to benefit from that effect again then you need an uncommon and rare item. It is actually pretty smart balancing.
So many people miss that fact.
Also you can only really wear one cloak plasuibly, and you can rare multiple rings.
@@Missiletainn Beat me to it. Officially though only 2 rings can be in effect at a time, raw.
@@lordmars2387 Yeah but most DMs will let you have at least 10 rings active as long as they don't require attunement
I just picture someone with 20 cloaks now.😂
I'm yet to find a DM that meets my desire to roleplay crafting. I always liked the idea of having the intention to craft a specific magic item and have it turn into a quest with a number of steps. These rules don't have to be busted.
Agreed. Though in my experience with it they either don't allow for the downtime the system requires or the DCs for checks are to demending, especially when its pass or fail no matter how for into the process you are. You could be 1 day or 3 months, one fail and its completely worthless
For me my idea is "While exploring you find something or see something that gives you a idea, you spend time to experiment on how that would work, refine it over a month to work properly and bam, magic item!"
I think the harder parts is making the item.
@sathancat You are right... but as written they clearly ARE. 75% chance that the parts are available, no matter what, is just not a meaningful mechanic.
Plus I don't know how many DMs are going to be interested in running a Monster Hunter game. At best, they'll probably let you build things out the enemies they were already planning on having you fight.
I heartily encourage to become that DM.
I like the crafting rules as well - and the idea of everyone having a Broom of Flying - that would be fine in my game because I make the Broom of Flying 2 handed and you have to have both hands on it to fly with it, so you can't do anything but fly - that's how I take care the Broom of Flying - other things understandable - but you have to have stuff for your monsters, if the PCs can do it so can they - love your videos.
I like the section of the DMG that is under the heading "Respect for the DM" where it talks about interpreting the rules in good faith and not in an exploitative way.
I would love this. Our DM's loot? Random. Shops? Random. Please, let me just choose something my character can use.
If your DM gives you completely random loot, they're doing it wrong
@@The_Real_Pseudonym based off the general complaining of DnD players, i can totally see the DM making you outlift a roided out dragon to get that one treasure you want.
I think you should be able to craft the item at %75 power and need rich stuff to make it at %100 and %125 power
@@Subject_Keter Wait, I have to play Ring Fit Adventure now?
@orbracha25 Eh... I think there's fun to be had in, "Okay, what can we do with what we have?" as opposed to, "I have a super-niche build that only works if I get certain magic items" (e.g. STR-dump Ftr or Barb) and then act like the DM is a jerk for not immediately providing them.
@@mythaniakeroberos2405Never played that game 😮
The best way i can sum up DnD players as a whole are "warlock and paladin get dragged out to sea by b i g fish! Well you rolled a nat 20 you wanted something special!"
Easy to be corrupted and usually have the notion wreck something.
Thank you for making all these videos, it reminds me of the past when I had a good team.
The thing is, though all the problems you listed are valid there’s 1 thing you mentioned earlier that kinda invalidates them “Materials”. The problems you’ve describing are if you have the most lenient DM, but if you want people to go out there and explore to craft these items, give these items materials the players need to collect and find on top of the gold price and time needed
@@The_Real_Pseudonym And what if the players aren't nearby a city?
Holy goodness. Twist at the end. Chef’s kiss. Thank you.
We are trying to make a game that is balanced, overpowered, and most importantly fun as all hell.
Jeff is my new favorite DnDShorts character
Just think of all the magic items the monsters can make Every servant of that high level lich has access to a wish spell.
4:52 of all the UA-camrs I’m pretty sure he would be the funnest to have as a DM.
5:04 I was not prepared for the Shadowhunters references in year of our lord 2024. What a bizarre show, but whoever put that in is giga classy.
You are a mad man! I say this with great love of your use of game rules and as a G M myself I can say without a doubt I would love sit as a player, but as D M I might have to make you leave the table. For you have an evil mind for combos, happy new year!!
15:34 "Hunt down a dragon, defeat it, and craft armour from its scales."
Okay, but don't be surprised if the dragon's relatives hunts down your family, and then uses their powdered bones for some magical item themselves.
Have you done or considered doing anything with Baldurs Gate 3?
I knows it’s a huge entry point for people into D&D and it would be cool seeing your take on it. Maybe comparing it to the real game, suggestions for cool builds or even just lore and D&D related tidbits.
I’ve never played a full campaign of D&D myself, and my entry was Dimension 20 Fantasy High.
I think it would be cool to use BG3 to teach people how to prepare for a tabletop campaign, maybe go over what’s the same, what’s different and how the video game can prepare you or even hinder you when getting into a campaign.
Another new video from the man himself thank you I needed this the presentation of information is just more intriguing and fun which I can then turn each section of this video into a several hour expansion having fun with each mechanic and concept before making my own creative innovation thank you for the entertainment and inspiration 🎉 🔥 👏
Cool to see the VLDL crew! Love those guys! Also thanks for explaining how broken crafting is XD
And bruh, 5 days downtime would be an AMAZING roleplaying opportunity! Imagine being able to walk around, collect information, maybe clean up the riffraff on the streets, help some kindly old ladies, etc? Explore some player backstories?
Yeah, I'm going to have to replan my artificer house rule. Didn't realize just how broken this would be. (Basic thought was that the class made you twice as fast at crafting, and twice again if it's part of your known infusions bumped to three times if you are just making an already infused item permanent)
@D&Dshorts - plz read, colab offer included.
hmm they got rid completely of the XP cost to crafting from older versions then.
Silly silly.. btw those XP costs were NOT supposed to be the crafters XP except in emergencies.. it was supposed to be the XP from a bound spirit/elemental, a negotiation with a demon or a god, a ritual sacrifice etc etc..
Those were great RP opportunities, and a big part of being a magic user of any class. That's the fix btw - require the crafter to find a magical power source of some kind - be it a soul, a pact, a bargain, an ebberon dragon shard, a bound spirit.. whatever.
Also the prices of those items are INSANE... peasants would be making gloves of ogre power rather than feeding an ox for its life time.
Also - more of this type of content plz.. this is what I like.
My 'old man' advice to young DM's make the player that wants to craft an item:
1. know what that item is, and how to craft it... make them STUDY.
2. find a power source - simple example will be a rare gem that contains magic power - like a dragon shard from ebberon, a much better version though is binding a demon.. with all the risks (and roleplay) that entails, or making a ritual sacrifice, or dealing with a spirit. As DnD shorts points out.. body parts from certain monsters is also a great choice for a power source.
3. limit what CAN be crafted based on the caster levels of the character.. a wizards apprentice is not going to be making a staff of power!
4. let them TRY to craft things outside of their level of expertise and knowledge.. how else do you think d&d got filed with cursed items.
As a veteran DM (35+ years) I have required all of the above depending on the game.
If you want D&D shorts, im happy to colab with you and write up a concise version of all these OLD rules for 5th - though ill need your help with the 5th ed specifics (i have played 5th, but no expert). The rules im talking about were from 2nd ed to 3.5 and various splat books and house rulings.
We all need a friend like Jeff
The best solution for any situation like this is to always just talk to your fellow players.
I have a player in one of my games that brought over an existing character from a previous campaign, who happens to have a +3 Vorpal Longsword. I explained that while the power of that blade would throw the entire game’s balance out the window, I am not simply removing it from his character. Instead, it’s being used as a beacon that acts as a link between his character, and the Great Big Helper Guy who gives advice when the players ask for it, and I plan to give the blade back when the final showdown with the BBEG comes around.
I have several players that are interested in crafting, so it has featured heavily at my table. A way I throttle the the speed of crafting is a variation of the forced march rules in the 2014 PHB (p. 181) where I allow crafting more than 8hrs in a day, but after 8 hours I call for a CON SAV every 2 hours with DC 10 + 2 for every successive save. On a fail they take a level of exhaustion. Gives them the option to try pushing through and even if they fail the first save they are making 1.25 days of progress per day then using a long rest to drop that exhaustion.
Edit: The 2014 DMG and XGE also specify that the formula for crafting an item is required in order to know how to make it. I sneak crafting formulas into the loot of certain baddies and use the Hammund's guides to award components for crafting. I'll likely stick to that even if the 2024 DMG doesn't require it.
In my game, a player wanted to craft magic items. They were a forge cleric too. So I took some inspiration from Xanathar’s guide and put the requirement that you need a formula to follow and came up with key ingredients needed for different things.
Or, if they were able to stick in the group longer, I would have let them attempt to devise new magic items formulas.
This meant they needed not only the gold but also the formula and if they went out to get the ingredients themselves it was cheaper.
They also wanted to gain a weapon proficiency without taking a feat, so we came up with rules for that too.
But the problem with rules like these is that they need to be clear, organized, else they can become messy.
One possible fix for the magic items here could be to add a “complexity” level to each item. To represent the difficulty of crafting them. Maybe something like, a potion of healing is a 1 with a 75% chance of finding all ingredients, and a broom of flying is an 11. Double digit items could indicate that a key ingredient is very unlikely to be found in town, 5-10% maybe, to encourage adventure. Adjust prices and time based on complexity level.
Officially, they would have to introduce some erratas to the crafting system with an expansion. Likely, that expansion book will also include the revised Artificer class and Forge Domain for the Cleric, and maybe some new crafting-oriented subclasses for some of the other classes
The reason for the difference in rarity of the cloak of protection and the ring of protection is likely (and I am guessing here) because you can only have one cloak on but you can wear 2 rings. Therefore since you are giving up your one cloak slot for protection the item has a lower rarity and thus easier to obtain. Since the ring only takes up 1/2 your ring slots its more rare and harder to obtain.
same bonus sources do not stack. you do not gain anything by wearing a 2nd ring of protection. it is in either the PHB or the DMG.
@@robertmore703 did I say anything about wearing a 2nd ring of protection? No.
I was only saying you have 2 ring slots therefore a ring is a better item to have as you can wear a ring of protection AND another ring (feather fall for example) whereas if you have a cloak of whatever that is the ONLY cloak you can wear.
@heathbecker420 there is nothing in the game about not bring able to wear multiple cloaks. Ever heard of a half cloak? 😜
@@robertmore703 DMG p 141 MULTIPLE ITEMS OF THE SAME KIND
Use common sense to determine whether more than
one of a given kind of magic item can be worn. A
character can't normally wear more than one pair of
footwear, one pair of gloves or gauntlets, one pair of
bracers, one suit of armor, one item of head wear, and
one cloak. You can make exceptions; a character might
be able to wear a circlet under a helmet, for example, or
be able to layer two cloaks.
So while its under "common sense" there is a rule that typically you cannot do this and its by DM exception if you can.
I allow multiple amulets as those are not bulky or going to interfere with each other however multiple cloaks is pushing this boundary of common sense for magic items though I will grant it could make sense depending on the cloaks' powers. That said I see this does not mention multiple rings and since we have 10 fingers and as many toes you could wear up to 20 rings or (more possibly) however attunement slots are still going to be the limiting factor as the vast majority of magic rings require attunement
@@heathbecker420 /whoosh joke went over your head
I think the Cloak vs ring of protection rarity is two-fold:
- The cloak slot is pretty contested, many good uncommon and rare 'back items" (cloak, mantle, cape) are about: elvenkind, protection, manta, displacement, spell resistance, mountebank, and a bunch of fun common ones. Whereas you can stack up on rings, depending the table's rules - limited by attunement, of course
- Getting 1 is pretty doable. Getting a second item (stacking) becomes more expensive --> doable to get the uncommon one, adding a second requires the rare cost
/my 2cp
Me, I never got into playing 4 or 5e myself, played different versions of 2nd as well as 3/3.5 for years, still play 3/3.5 when I can.
As a DM I never had a problem with folks taking downtime for crafting, it was an investment to prep for the next leg of the campaign, something they did looking forward to the next adventure, especially if they are having to winter for months while things shut down do too the environment.
That also being said, it cost a LOT more back in 3rd, thousands of gold to but even a simple magic item, half the market value to craft it yourself plus a days work per 1,000 gp of market value or portion there of. And an XP cost, which some hate but I always felt it was never too high, easy to make up by going out and doing a few randoms, and made you think about its cost more, plus it's not like there wasn't ways to get your party members to "help" with that cost, just look up old dragon magazine articles and such, spells for "soul stealing" XP to fuel crafting existed. (Yes, just for crafting can't level with these)
But yeah, 200 gold for a permeant flight speed 50 is insane to me, for reference, in 3rd it was 17,000 gp, only did a speed of 40, max carrying of 400lbs (including rider) speed dropping to 30 past 200 pounds.
200 for speed 50 and no problems with weight?!?
How I do crafting is that it takes 10 business days so 60 hours for a uncommon ad 5 days for each rarity up I also have it costs half as much as the item you need to adventure to gain the gold you need to do this there are also arcana skills checks you need to get a 10 to gain normal time a 5 for half and a 5 for double if below a 5 quarter the time if above a 20 triple it (also my players often only want weaker ones I also only let them start at level 6)
The DM is the one who chose if you can find the materials to craft these items. So the rules are not broken, everything is in the hand of the DM.
Random comment but I've taken in my GMing that to make magic items is more than just "knowledge" to help limit things like this (in 3rd ed). Your anvil has to be magic, the fire that heats, the wood working mats or hammer...ect...Inspiration came when I looked at my friends woodworking shop and he had tons of specialty equipment and watching blacksmiths on youtube. This also helped me keep pc's with sticky fingers from stealing magic items generally because any created were not "activated" which required a special strike from a hammer or a magic word....and only the one creating the magic item knew what was missing from the magic equation to activate it. THis also made find magic forges from ancient people much more exciting to find.
Jeff is a good guy helping out with that sponsor.
The Vanhelsing clips! got me good
2 quick adds to make it more engaging.
1. instead of it being a 75% chance of getting the materials in a city, start at 50% for common and decrease it by that by 10% for each level of rarity. It would be a lot easier to get them from monsters and the environment... so a Cloak of protection would require the tendons of a Aberration, Dragonkin, or Outsider with natural armor. A city would have a 40% chance of having it, but if you go out hunting for one of these creatures, there's an 80% chance they'll have it.
2. Have it take an Arcana or Tool Use check of 10 for uncommon and an additional 5 for every rarity level over that. So, a Cloak of Protection would take a 15 Arcana check. You get advantage with one being helping you, and each being in addition to that would reduce the DC by 1. So, a Broom of Flying would take a 15 Arcana or Woodworking Tools check. If Chentey enlists the help of Orym and Caleb. He has advantage on the check and it's reduced by one, so Cheteny needs a 14 Woodworking with advantage. He has a 7 because of his Dexterity and Woodworking Tools Proficiency. Chetney rolls a 9 and a 13, giving him a dirty 20.
I'd add as a DM, a lower DC if everyone says what they're doing to help. Orym's gathering supplies, and Caleb is looking into lore for the most efficient way for building it. That would lower the DC by another point, making it a 13.
Solasta: Crown of the Magister has my personal favorite crafting system in any rpg, tabletop or otherwise. It requires you to know the recipe of what you want to make, as well as having the required materials. Then, for every hour you work on it, you need to make a check with a DC varying on the item. The amount of time it takes also varies.
As an example, here is what you need to make a +1 weapon:
1) The recipe for the +1 weapon you want to make
2) A "primed" weapon you want to make a +1 weapon
3) A bottle of "Oil of Acuteness"
4) X hours, X being how long it takes for you to get 12 successes on a DC 14 Intelligence check that you are proficient in (can be done during long rests)
5) proficiency with a rosary set, used for enchanting weapons
And that is for just one of the +1 weapons. The oil isn't very rare, but the primed weapons and recipes can be. Unless you know who to buy them from, of course.
I have no problem with +1 items and level 1 spells being easy to obtain. It's a lot better than many of the broken builds you have shown in your videos. I typically hand out these types of items anyways, now I can let the players build them instead.
You make a very good point with that lol
As for Ring of Protection and Cloak of Protection being different rarity. In previous condition, magic items took one of the limited body slots (ie: Cloak took the throat slot, and Rings took 1 of the 2 ring slots). I would imagine this may be why. I don't many DMs that would allow a character to wear more than one cloak (especially any that require attunements).
Artificer - Archivist
Wizard - Scroll Master
Gnome of Scribing
Get the most common scrolls for 1/32 of the usual price and in 1/16 of the time.
Also! The thing you said about the Gauntlets of Ogre Power also apply to the Headband of Intellect. As an Eldritch Knight Fighter or Arcane Trickster, you can dump Intelligence and be rocking an Intelligence that’s even better than even late-game EKs and ATs.
Also if you’re multi-classing into an Intelligence class, you can safely use Attack-Roll and DC spells like Chromatic Orb, Hold Person, etc.
I've tried to make crafting work as a character concept but its honestly quite a lot harder than JUST doing it.
1. For one the DM decides how much gold you get your hands on.
2. Time between adventures and having to juggle long rests.
3, You need the knowledge to craft it.
4. you need special materials and it often clashes with the any flow of an adventure because the DM decides what you get. I can see it as a if your players are in on it you can give them crafting materials as loot but you as a DM needs to facilitate it and make them exited on the prospect to craft a superweapon. In other words it needs to be worked into the adventure because if not it becomes a side quest that just bogs the adventure down.
I recognize that ring in the thumbnail!
It’s the Eye of the Tiger! (It’s the thrill of the fight!)
Seriously though, I really want to run an adventure centered around getting that busted Rakshasa eye ring!
easy fix for that first problem you brought up: Go monster hunter style. In order to make this magic item, you need 200 gold of common materials, arcane expertise, tools etc etc, but you ALSO need certain materials that can only be acquired either from a certain monster, or in a dangerous place with monsters in it. Now, the crafting is a quest hook and can easily be explained because your average magic shop owner cant go take out a displacer beast for the materials. That's where you and your adventuring team comes in!
Me and my friends are currently playing improvised campaign. The plan is to craft items while traveling with a Caravan or hired cart.
We also don't have perfect skills for crafting so only some of us will be working while others drive.
And since we are going to craft on the run, our DM can still throw bandits or other random encounter to interrupt the travel and thus the crafting process
Also we are not using gold directly.
Our dm said that if we want to craft magic armour we will first need to find 20 lb of mythril. So we are going on a quest to obtain materials first anyway. Effectively it might actually be harder than just buying complete item
I made one change to the RAW rules w regard to how the magic is infused into the item. I made it so that the spell must not only be cast on the item, but that it must be maintained for the entire time the item is being crafted. This makes instantaneous spells essentially useless except for scrolls. But making a +1 weapon will require figuring out the logistics of maintaining a 1hr duration second level spell around the clock for the entire duration of the crafting process. A +1 dagger would be relatively easy to achieve. A +1 greatsword is a major logistical challenge.
Honestly, as much as people are worried about this in my six years of being a dungeon master I have never come across any of the combos from this channel. Mainly because a lot of players are not really all that interested in being super powerful. Most Dnd players are not coming to this channel and they’re not interested in Building ridiculous combos. Mainly because they have things to do and families to take care of, and they just have other things to do with their time. The only person who would be at all informed in any of my groups about what’s going on with the game would be me and I am the dungeon master. Most of the players either didn’t know or didn’t care to know. They just liked coming to Game every week.
first time I see Holzkern outside of German youtube as s sponsor.
I think the whole reason these rules are in the DMG is so it’s the DMs discretion if/when players get to craft stuff, and there isn’t an encyclopaedia in universe for magic items- they’d still need to do research etc. have it address the players needs, rather than just giving them everything
Gotta be honest I was trying to find that free crafting recourse mentioned at the end. It just doesn't exist on Loot Tavern as far as i can tell.
DnD should be a high magic game. Magic items should be accessible and it can’t be too powerful or broken because anything the players can do so can the DM but not vice versa.
Magic is by nature; broken.
It should be wild. It should carry consequences. Try working with the river!
Honestly I feel that showing which items require attunement is so important. While I feel that yeah, some of this may be really strong, a majority of items, including enspelled items and the broom of flying, require attunement. Sure you can craft a bunch of busted stuff, but if you can only use three of them at a time, it does balance it at least to an extent.
All the way back to AD&D 1E (yes, I am that old, lol) my DMs and me as well when I DMed would allow magic item crafting but magic items other than simple potions like Healing would require special components that you could not buy but you would usually have to adventure and quest to find. Actually, now that I think of it, even healing potions required troll blood from my first DM. This still requires some DM alteration of the rules but with a story-driven in-game solution. Consumable items would be easier to craft than permanent items, which would give a taste of magic item excitement without permanently altering PC and party power levels. The important thing to incorporate when using harvesting rules is to require that what is harvested must be fresh for crafting or else your PCs will just cut up every monster they meet and and have a warehouse full of monster body parts and body fluids, lol.
5:30 +15 feet range unarmed strike + elemental monk adds another 15 feet of any damage type.
Need an Illrigger video with best species/race and cool ideas ASAP!
Greatly appreciated as always. Than you!
I love crafting, and 5e was horribly bad for it, imo, so I love that they are bringing it back finally. It should be based upon adventures and finding components, much like the Loot Tavern system is being built around (which you mentioned eventually lol)
Solution is simple:
1-rise cost of crafting and magic items if they are so easy to craft or acquire
2- crafting requires recipes that can be find during adventures.
3-getting gold in town is extremely inefficient and slow.
This way they would need to explore to get money and recipes or wait years in story to accumulate enough money to actually buy stuff they want.
I tend to tie it into the world: Yes, there's a 75% chance that the raw matterial are available in a city. That is: available to everybody: Suppose a nearby Mages guild is buying up all the resources, now the PCs have to go convince them to share some. Or the merchant decides to auction of the materials off to the highest bidder, driving up the price. Or the last two shipments of materials have gone missing during transport and the merchant is asking the PCs to go check that out. Or an npc suggest they use his cheaper materials, black moon rock works just as well as green moon rock afterall and those rumours about a curse are just that, rumours.
Holy crap! Didn't realize you did stuff with the VLDL crew! I need to investigate this!
honestly, a chunk of the "work overtime to get a ton of stuff" side of things could be covered by a homebrew rule of instituting a "cooldown" period after crafting.
Flavor it as being magically "burnt out" or the like.
So tired of people complaining about crafting. it has a place. dnd is a creative game, crafting an idea in a fantasy world is creativity. A game without this possibility is like a house where all the furniture is covered in plastic so you cant Actually touch anything.
Most of the "broken combos" mentioned require attunement. Enspelled weapons and armor, broom of flying, gauntlets of ogre power, cloak of protection. Each character can only use three at once. Also, I'm not sure you can do 16 hours of work in a day. The dmg specifically says you must spend 8 hours of work per day. Not saying this mechanic could get really out of Hand but it does give us something to finally spend all that gold and downtime on. :)
Yeah, I feel like I would at least force con checks on the crafters for that.
I would just make them make a con save and give them levels of exhaustion based on degrees of failure
For the record: I'm in a double-didgit level campaign right now and this mechanic provides the benefit of being able to construct a low-to-mid level magic item we might not be able to acquire otherwise but would allow for smoother gameplay ... especially useful if a creative spellcaster can up the CR ability of a party this way to move the campaign forward faster than the DM anticipated. The DM gets to play with more-and-higher-level challenges faster and the players get to enjoy the dopamine hit of pwning the DM's baddies in less time than anticipated.
"useful if a creative spellcaster can up the CR ability of a party this way to move the campaign forward faster than the DM anticipated"
Why do you want to stress out the DM by forcing them to skip stuff in their campaign or redesign stuff or improvise stuff they haven't yet had time to prepare because you jumped ahead through 2 months worth of content by making your characters OP?
And on the flip side: Why do you want to end the campaign faster? If you aren't enjoying the campaign why are you still with the group?
The simplest "fix" for the crafting rules would be to add a skill check, or two, based on the complexity or rarity of the item. A crafting check to get it looking good and an arcana check for the enchantment. Fail the roll and you wasted the money. Common DC 10, uncommon DC 15, rare DC 20, very rare DC 25, legendary DC 30 (there is a reason they are legendary).
However, almost everyone will have some way to make the check with advantage, so it isn't a big limitation. A level 5 wizard will probably have +10 arcana and with advantage they will have no problem crafting uncommon or even rare gear, but there is some risk and at least it deters lvl1 characters trying to risk everything on a crafting roll.
What I'd also do is add in a crafting formula cost, just as wizards pay to learn spells, make people have to seek out and pay for crafting formulae, with crafters often jealously guarding their lore. Typically the same as the crafting cost. Crafting becomes less cost effective unless you are making multiples of each thing, Then throw in a chance of random quirks for each item crafting formula. Maybe your broom of flying will always leave a trail of pink smoke behind it, or it glows with arcane light. If you want one without that quirk, you need to hunt out another formula.
Designing your own formula will take 10 times as long as crafting, with a 5 point higher target number, but at least it allows you to specify any quirks, if any. The people who first worked out designs for legendary items were truly legendary wizards.
Argument for the Broom of Flying: Roleplay. As a current ForeverDM I often use NPCs to experiment things I want to achieve if I was a player, once such example was a voodoo warlock of the Undying (Her patrons were the Samedi Loa) who used a Broom of Flying to "skateboard" around, wielding a sledgehammer as a scepter for her spell focus. She favored using electricity-based spells in addition to necromancy and curses, Call Lightning being her favourite as I could fly her up to the cloud she summoned and stick her hammer in it to charge a bolt to throw at someone Zeus-Mjolnir style. (I know it's a Druid spell, but when it comes to Warlock spell choices that use lightning, you have Lightning Lure, Witch Bolt and Elemental Bane).
Another example of messing with magic items for roleplay was an intimidation factor when I let a Monk get a Dancing Morningstar from a Cloud Giant... it was a Giant's Morningstar, but since it was Dancing, she could pretend to carry it effortlessly to freak people out. The party bard and artificer got involved and turned it into a floating megaspeaker to blast death metal for extra intimidation, it was thought of as music and incantations to summon demon lords.
0:26 I wouldn't say woodcarver's tools were "the" reason, but amen, I guess XD
The thing I have always liked about crafting mechanics is the customization it enables. It's a way to express creativity. Why would I want to spend my time making something standard that I can probably find in a big city, when I could add more features to my Sonic Screwdriver? Sure, it's just flavor on top of basic spell effects that any mid-level wizard can cast with a second thought, but it's fun!
8:10 and that’s when the DM sends the party on a fetch quest through the astral plain
One thing that I think could have gone a long way towards saving this system is a much stronger focus on the required materials, and making that an avenue for the players to go out exploring. a given magic item doesn't really have to list the required materials, there should honestly just be a "DM's advice" type section where it explains this and some things to keep in mind when creating material-gathering quests/adventures.
All that said, some skill checks would also have been nice
Great ad Oscar. Thanks for your good Videos.
XGTE already had good crafting rules that gave DM’s the tools they needed to weave crafting components into their campaigns. They also included complications during crafting so that the process didn’t feel cheap by just guaranteeing a magic item with money time and skill. We had Artificers for a reason after all.
Agreed, and how many new players are reading the rules for crafting? There are the few that do, in my experience, because they want to craft items, but the rest of the party may not be on board.
At our table, crafting usually means you found something to make the item with, or you're paying a premium to get the material, and it works great, though we haven't tried the newest version of crafting.
My way of handling crafting is
I double all prices and allow players to collect materials to reduce the price by using the needed materials instead of the need to buy the materials too
Some materials for some stuff just straight up doesn't exist in some areas and stuff.
Worked out well so far
As a fighter I think instead of shield I would probably prefer Shield of faith on them because of con save proficiency it’ll likely help you out longer in combat than 6 uses of shield.
Here are my Homebrew magic item rules. Easily superior to this.
The cost to create/research magic items is full cost in that bracket, 500gp uncommon, 5000gp rare, 50,000gp Very Rare, 500,000gp Legendary
If you acquire a rare and suitable component from a slain monster you may reduce the cost to create the item by half. The CR of monster relates to if its suitable for Items of a specif rarity. CR 6 or Less Uncommon, CR 7-10 Rare, CR 11-16 Very Rare, CR 17+ Legendary. So if you take the skin of a a CR 2 Ogre to use as tanned leather and turn into gloves you can create Gauntlets of Ogre power for only 250gp. Note that materials need to be harvested and preserved for use as soon as the monster is slain. Cant use rotted skin in your gauntlets. DM decides whats a suitable component for an item, as well as other proficiencies and spells needed for each item. For the gauntlets example, leather working skill and enhance ability spell seems appropriate.
This creates a fun reason to harvest monster parts and create items based on the adventures you have had and since the cost is so high it discourages making items over adventuring to find them.
I use specific formula for crafting artifacts that must be found and take entire adventures to complete. gathering multiple unique components spells and crafting skills and methods required. This can be retooled to put a cap on rarity it can be used for Very Rare and Greater items for instance. these cannot be made unless you find a specific formula.
Now to go back to my game where my players are seeking to acquire the hollowed out skull of a true giant and convert it into an anvil, the heart of an ancient dragon to be bled into the hollowed out skull as a quenching pool, a 100 pound admantium block, a 20 pound mithril shaft. 100,000 Gp of gems and diamond dust to Forge a Hammer of Thunderbolts all done during an active thunderstorm, that must last at least one week.
@@The_Real_Pseudonym Yeah I know that. I have fixed it with homebrew. But if you are forced to uses the core than the only useful items are the most powerful. and any new homebrew needs to be balanced around those.
...this is why you make finding the components for the item a quest in and of itself. Want an enchanted sword? Get an ounce of starmetal - might have to search for a while. Want a demonbane weapon? Get a feather from an angel, archon or deva. Those aren't found in the regular spell component stores...
one of my dms uses helianas guide to monster hunting book for crafting and I'm now the most op character in the multiverse at lvl 6
I think that people forget that risk and difficulty make games interesting (golf vs. putting a ball in the hole.
Also, if Crafting were that easy, tyrants would have magic armies and a magic arms race would ensure.
As Syndrome said, once everyone is special, then no one is special.
I love Artificers, but I think that they should be miserly with their secrets. You should hunt for masters to apprentice and for lost recipes as wll as components. I would make Crafting with hard to get materials that have limited shelf life and limits to charges. Have a few legendary items and items that have more than one function and have more than one component. And the potential to blow up. But that's just me.
Ibelieve the difference in rarity between the Cloak and Ring of Protection is because you can wear 2 rings, but just 1 cloak.
So you can combo your ring with say a Ring of Warmth when you need it, but that cloak of protection means you can't use the cape of the montebank.
Great vid with great points! Hey... I know those 2 guys on the left! There vids are hilarious! So cool to see content creators I like in the vids of other creators I like. Why aren't you in some of their game videos?? That would be awesome!
DMs can easily give many of these magic items material requirements that can only be found as dungeon loot or taken from slain monsters
I already started thinking crafting was kinda crazy just from the Nonmagical stuff. Even designed a Forge Cleric that gets proficiency in all the big tools and would become the party Blacksmith. (Searing Smite and Magic Weapon’s buffs are also big factors, and Fabricate is very nice)