Watch enthusiast's in the US & Europe have become very favorable towards Sea-Gull, so its no surprise that a fake industry has developed. We must always be on our guard. Thank you for sharing this with us. t was a great report.
I hope you didnt throw away the smaller Seagull. The smaller one's movement is also from Seagull. Right now, Sugess bought the right to reproduce the product which is why people confused. However, Sugess bought the produced movement from Seagull only. . The smaller seagull you have was launched by Seagull itself 11 years ago. Its a mechanical tourbillon movement. . the 42mm dial you have is an automatic tourbillon... that automatic tourbillon, even Sugess doesn't have it. (with the exact design) . Final thought: I don't know about the warranty on the smaller watch. But yes, it's better to buy the 42mm Tourbillon from Seagull. Personally, I am a lazy person. I hate that I have to wind up the watch every time.
What an unexpected turn of events. Even so, it's still impressive how the fake still is a tourbillion and does use a seagull movement, despite the case and dial being fake.
@@whatsonthewrist I agree...that's a Sea Gull movement. A tourbillion is not an easy watch to make and Sea Gull have taken the price down to almost a loss on every unit.
Wow, that is crazy my friend. I am glad it all worked out. I thought the fake looked good, but side by side their is just that added refinement to the real deal. Thanks for sharing this story with everyone and hopefully it will help keep others from getting scammed.
They were owned by government but went public around Y2000. One important point: the rear Seagull watch has a signed seagull movement. The fake one does not.
I have a quasi vintage pre-owned -Rolex purchased a few years ago from a big name lux watch internet outfit that I still have occasional doubts about. Yes, they have their in house watch makers, authenticity is part of their reputation, but have my doubts as to 100% original parts. The bitch is, opening one and having to replace seals. It's a $5k watch, so not like I'm on the hook for large money. Eventually I guess I will find out when I have it serviced. Nice to see you, Rich. Best, JP
You have an interesting story. That would be intriguing to find out, if you ever make that video. Good to see you too, JP. I hope you had you Dunkin’. 🍩 ☕️
Hi, Stomo1709. Yes if I recall the fake had a manual wound movement. I got mine from Faoiki.com. I also left the link in the description. They are an AD for Sea-Gull.
I do not agree that this is fake, it's just two different models with two different mechanisms (one with automatic winding, the other without it) and two different housings (one 40mm thin, the other 41mm thick).
@@whatsonthewrist You said 10:20 you bought them from a third-party seller. Maybe the seller just took them back to avoid fraud charges? It is easier for the seller to agree with the buyer, apologize and return the money, than to argue and conduct an examination of originality. Even if the stuff is really original.
And that's the issue with Sea-Gull, they don't care. They sell their movements to anybody and give permission to anybody to make identical watches. The 1963 is a good example, they only required makers replicating it not to use a solid back, they told them as long as they use transparent case backs they can copy anything else they want. So all watches made with Sea-Gull movements are essentially Sea-Gulls now. I question from a business perspective why they diluted their brand name doing this, I can only assume they think it's more profitable to sell the movements to makers and give them free rein on replicating them, while also selling their own watches. As to an authorized Sea-Gull supplier, they don't exist, some of the largest watch supply companies in the world can not become an authorized dealer. Sea-Gull has told them they don't do it, if they want watches or movements then just order them. If they had an authorized dealer program it would effect their profit on selling movements to makers who copy the watches. The largest suppliers in the world, such as Otto Frei, and Cousins-UK have disclaimers. When you purchase Sea-Gull movements from them, they say the movement was purchased from Sea-Gull, but they do no guarantee, or have any verification it's authentic, and you're buying at your own risk.
Above all, at the beginning Sea gull didn't release 1963 to markets. It's just a small amount of souvenirs for veteran. You know the "small" workshop can buy Sea gull's movements include st19. They made lots of 1963(they also design panda). Later Sea gull decide to release 1963 only 5500 pieces of it. It's limited. But now Sea gull stil not sold it out.... In the other side, some design of Sea gull is not as good as "small" workshop.
I have the Seagull 1963 very nice watch outher than that I haven't looked at their watches much , I'm glad you can got the situation straighten out Nice looking watch !! Congratulations 🎉
Congrats on your 1963. Thanks. Sorry just been busy but I checked out one of the shows with Blueshirt on it that you were talking about. Thank you, Junior. 🙌
@@whatsonthewrist Blue Shirt Buddha is one of The people , I'll let him know . During the show they send out a link to join the show ! But he could have you on as a special guest since your a Utube celebrity !😂
Thanks for making me laugh a loud. That was funny. Nonsense but funny. Please nothing special but let’s try it when you guys are on and if timing works out then wonderful. What’s the channel again...Showcase?
Looks like on the fake it shows all the odd numbered dates, but the authentic skips by 2. That at least should have been a dead giveaway (not judging you, I am not good at spotting fakes, but that seems like a pretty big difference... that's why the numbers are squished....)
@@whatsonthewrist Yeah... I'm glad you finally got the watch you wanted though. I am a poor man and can only buy watches less than $200 or so.. I have looked on some sites for Seagull 1963 (Aliexpress, Ebay) but even those, there is so much variation. I can't tell what is authentic and what is not... I also understand there is a difference between Sea-Gull and Seagull. I guess they all have an authentic movement so, that's good... My perfect Seagull would be 40mm, sapphire crystal, display caseback. Oh well I'll probably just buy another toy :-) Thanks for the video.
Hi rich. it has been a while since you made a thorough and detailed watch review which reflect your watch knowledge and love of the industry. I really enjoyed this video and probably I will pick up one Sea-Gull watch when I go to China early next year.... Hopefully we will get the vaccine and this pandemic will be over by then. Thanks again and great video, Rich. have a wonderful day.
Hi, Alex. I felt this video needed to be made. It was actually longer as I pointed out every single details on the fake, but I think it was enough to get the point. The dial is thoroughly flawed. And yes let’s hope for a vaccine sooner than later. 🤙
@whatsonthewrist: Hi Rich, have you checked if the "fake" watch has a genuine version from Sea-Gull? It seems the "fake" is a wind-up watch, so the move is different and not self-winding.
@@whatsonthewrist Thanks for reply ... I suppose there is a real Manual Winding version too? Maybe a comparison of that will add to this video, too. = )
Another idea: Do a video to understand the relationship between the parent watch maker and other watch manufacturers using Sea-Gull movements ... and discuss when it should be called "fake", or "Replica" instead, or the watch is from a "Sponsored Factory" as tolan65 printed in his comments.
A fake is when a third party makes a knock off and tries to pass the original brand as theirs. A replica is a look alike but without using the original brand name.
ITS NOT FUCKING FAKE ITS JUST A DIFFERENT MODEL!!! THEY ARE ALL MADE BY THE SAME FACTORY!!! Im in contact with the factory and i PROMISE you they are both absolutely real and made by the same factory. They are and always will be cheap chinese watches. They change the design between the automatic and manual variants. That’s how it is.
All good. But if I spend 5.000-80.000 Euro on a watch I do not buy a chinese one. That is the price they are sold in Aliexpress currently from sea-gull. If you want to buy a ok quality tourbillon then you go for a sugess and you get a cool piece for 700 Euro. It is a cool gadget but it is not the highest quality.
For lower budget to get into turbillons would you recommend the faioki turbillon Neptune on the same site you linked in the comments? Is the turbillon a seagull one or not? Thanks!
@@whatsonthewrist as a good first turbillon for someone who’s not rich but wants at least a few years out of it, would you personally recommend it based on its stats?
@ Josh. If you’re still referring to the Faioki house brand then it is a nice option at a fair cost. While HWC started making watches, they are better known for manufacturing very good movements. Faioki has been a trusted source and I know they work directly with HWC, no middle person involved. So long answer is sure if you like the look because the quality is good.
Hi, Junior. Let me know whenever you’re ready. It’s a minefield out there regarding legit Sea-Gull’s. But I have a Sea-Gull AD if you need a contact. 👊
@@whatsonthewrist Thanks Buddy 🙏 I haven't seen a Regulator on there website but the Seagull Ocean Star Diver looks nice have you seen one in person ? I'm also confused why they don't get the recognition as being a good watch .
It's strange when I see a lot of people being proud or their fake "Sea-gull 1963" not knowing that it's a fake watch! And alarming that it's being sold by reputable watch guys, that's even more concerning!. Anyway I stay away from any Chinese brand, but do appreciate your honesty Ritchie!.
Sea gull movement is very cheap. Such as st3600 series It's only about 125 yuan(19.5USdollar @6.4), goose neck trim should be added 2＄. In fact this is retail price. "small"workshop's price maybe less than 15＄...
Sorry you got scammed; thanks for helping others in the future. When comparing the two watches however, just lay them down side by side, so we can see from one to the other. Holding them up one at at time, flipping them front to back, is disorienting.
hello.. may i ask how much is the real m182sk seagull. if you have an idea, i will really appreciate it. found m182sk online with a price tag of 150usd. i don't know if it's ligit.
Hi, Lemuel. Well the model you are referencing is not the same model I have. However, may I suggest contacting the company that helped me? I left the link to their website in the description. They are an AD for Seagull and are a great and legit source. Let me know how it goes in your quest.
I just realize that you already got an answer of my last question. And its faioki.com.. By the way, i got a reply from them. They said the price is possible because the model is on sale right now in some areas.. 150usd is more or less fare enough if it's on sale..
How the original sea-gull watch has almost double in price in 1 year was 300 dollars before videos about this watch were online now almost 700 dollars from official store is strange to go up in price by such a increase...
If someone would import genuine ones, and give them a makeover, remove dust and stains, ensure precision, and then sell on europe/US market, there would be money to be made.
F*@k!! Fake watch inception lol, how can you trust anything? Makes me hesitant now I was considering a Sugess or Sea-Korea which supposedly use genuine Seagull movements but now idk
I doubt if even this is bought from real Seagull. Many have mentioned that they bought from the real seagull website. Can somebody flash the real website url ?
Until you've personally experienced the customer service, I wouldn't tell people they have great service. Any company can claim a great warranty without backing it up.
Hi, Mike. The fake uses a Sea-Gull movement so the accuracy has been fine. However, the dial when you compare them is like night and day. The fake is deeply flawed. They’re all subtle until you see them both side by side. It’s very shoddy. 👀
Yes, the dealer showed proper integrity and I did not have to chase him down. He immediately made things right. Thank goodness...right?! But thanks, eseskay99! 🙏
Sorry to hurt your feeling but both are fake Seagull.... this is why I no longer buy Chinese watches.. I live in Tianjin and my home is literally 20 kilometers from Tianjin watch factory, showed this video to them (screenshots as I didn’t have vpn on my phone) and they told me this particular version is “tailor made”, which use genuine seagull movement but the case is not produced in Tianjin.
Hi, there. I am a Chinese, too. Your watch can be found in Seagull official store on Taobao, priced as 22,850 CNY. Also can be found on their official store on Aliexpress with generally the same price. Don't worry about the one you have, it is genuine, apparently. Someone just occasionally living in Tianjin or a low level employee of Seagull, their judgement is not important at all. Stick with the official store and you will be safe.
I would never spent a cent on Chinese watchmaking...the quality understanding and business ethics are just totally different to what can be expected from e.g. a German or Swiss brand...had a Seagull 1963 Chrono...had to go to through multiple version to find one without QC issues...especially I would never go for such a pretentious wanna be high horology piece...the best way to burn money.
Regardless of a watch’s origins, I would not use one unfortunate example to represent the entire country as there are many people who are pleased with their 1963. I could cite The Swiss or German made watches for the same thing based from a negative experience. Seiko had some issues, but we still love Japanese made watches. But as I said a Sea-Gull is not for everyone, Ron. ✌️
@@whatsonthewrist not just watch experiences...also in my job we had to deal with Chinese mentality and understanding of quality, as well as countless other goods made in china, handled over the years. It would be interesting to have the movement in your Seagull examined by a good watchmaker...could be interesting I suppose.
Yes I agree it could be quite informative and entertaining to have someone’s professional opinion on the tourbillon movement. We’ll see what we can do.
Do you mean that cheap Chinese crap is now being faked by more cheap Chinese crap. I'm shocked. The dial is actually a poorly executed copy of a Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece
Really appreciate your honesty . I've made lots of mistakes when it comes to watches and I know it hard to admit when you miss something but I'm glad to have the information so I'm paying more attention. 👍👍👍
Hey, Mark. Sorry to hear about your situations as well. I’m sure if I spent time with the fake that I would eventually notice the totality of their flaws. I hope so at least. Thanks for sharing your experiences, Mark. 😜
Good analysis. Oddly, I'm not averse to generic "replicas" without branding that don't purport to be what they aren't, so I'd not be averse to that movement in the fake case if they hadn't passed it off as a Sea-Gull watch.
It worked out, in the end, for me. I was fortunate. But thanks and it pleases me that someone can hopefully learn from my experience. Thank you, Alias Steve. 👌
Unless you eat, sleep and breathe high end watches of all types, it's best to buy them straight from the source or from a source-recommended retailer. It's so easy to be scammed on high end watches.
Hello - I don't believe you have a fake watch there; I believe they're both authentic, just different versions. The one you're calling the real one is model ST8004ZS. Retails off their official Chinese website for 16800.00 Yuan (appx. USD $2,600), and in Canada and Europe for more than that (probably due to import fees, etc.). The second one, the one you're calling fake, is model 819.316. It's currently retailing off their official Chinese site for 959.00 Yuan (appx. USD$150). I'll give you the links for the official site so you can check out the differences. If you google Seagull Canada or Europe you can double check. Or, you can go to the wikipedia page, at the bottom you can find the links to the various global sites they sell through. Tricky stuff to stay on top of! Here's the official site links for both models: www.sea-gullmall.com/goods/detail/id/226/is_custom/0.html www.sea-gullmall.com/goods/detail/id/262/is_custom/0.html Cheers!
Hi, Andrew. Thanks for sharing this. Sea-Gull actually took the watch (the one I referenced as fake) because they did not manufacture it from within their facility. Hence all the misaligned numbers etc on the dial. It may use a genuine seagul movement but it’s not considered authentic since they didn’t manufacture it nor give permission to use their branding. Sea-Gull provided me with their authentic watch manufactured by them.
@@whatsonthewrist That's super encouraging, really cool they did that. They have a nice skeleton on their Chinese site that they don't sell over here...thinking of ordering it, and from your experience, sounds like a very good company to deal with!
May I recommend Jeffrey at Faoiki.com. He is an AD for Sea-Gull and he can help you get you a watch that is hard to find directly from Sea-Gull. I don’t get anything out of it, but I know he is very helpful and honest.
Awesome! Thanks for the comparison and information. I'll be saving my money! I started with an ST5 and haven't looked back. Love my Sea-Gull watches. Respect to you and the company.
Excellent video. Informative, just wish your side by side comparisons were a bit longer. It is not possible to compare without pausing the video. Thank you nonetheless.
Thanks for the info. I like tourbillons just because I think they are cool. I wish seagull made one that was less dressy and more of an every day watch. My favorite as an example is by Hajime Asaoka. His project T tourbillon watch is perfect. Elegant, sporty enough to wear everyday, but not overdone calling for attention. Although way out of my price range. I’m also not a fan of the ERA watches. Something yells cheese with ERA when they advertise as a billionaire watch for everyone.
The real one looks really nice. From what I understand China copies everything even Chinese items. If they can sell it, they will make it. I remember back in the day, Street vendors in the city would be tripping over themselves and each other to sell you something. That's how China is.
Hi, Dr. Kevin Lun. May I suggest Faoiki.com. They are an AD for Sea-Gull. I left a link in the description of the video. You can get a discount by mentioning my channel. I do not get a commission.
@Dr. Kevin Lun. I imagine you can go thru Faoiki since they get the watches directly from Sea-Gull. Or you can send it directly to Sea-Gull. The warranty card is included. That is my understanding but you can confirm with Faoiki.
It is shocking that now even high-end Sea-Gull watches are being copied. But due to the low production and wholesale cost of a Chinese tourbillon movement, it is just too tempting to copy this kind of watch and to earn a tremendous amount of money. Even Sea-Gull itself make a huge amount of profit with their Tourbillon watches. No wonder they offer a lifetime free service. It has been already calculated into the official retail price. But in general, if you can buy a genuine Sea-Gull watch, their quality today is the same as with any lower priced Swiss watch. If not slightly better in some tiny details, like a sapphire crystal for even their low priced dress watches.
@@whatsonthewrist I own 3 original Sea-Gull watches bought at their flagship stores in China. Quality and accuracy are the same as with Tissot, Longines or Certina.
Honestly I'm tempted to buy one of those cheap aliexpress tourbillon watches. At least those are definitely bottom basement "it's a movement that works" and there's little chance of being scammed as long as the balance wheel cage is rotating.
@@whatsonthewrist I'm at the "that is an attractive or interesting design" stage. I'm putting money aside for one of the new Accutron Spaceviews at the moment.
Idk how you missed the single most obvious difference. The fake one has dates going up in odd numbers while the real one has different numbering completely.
Hi, Michael. I think I might have pointed that out. There are a few more differences I noticed since. On the fake, the date spills onto the rehaut area while the real one stays within the ring.
There was an article of how the fake Sea-Gulls were busted by the police. Apparently it was an employee with more than 10 years working in the company that started selling out the blueprints and parts. On the topic of Chinese watches, I always tell people my watches are Chinese... even when they are not (although parts were probably manufactured there). This way I avoid thieves. If someone, man or woman, judge me by the watches I wear, they are not worth my time much less my friendship.
First thing that stood out to me was the word "Tourbillon" not being in all-caps on the fake. I was considering ordering one of the cheaper 1963s since it was 40mm, had lume and sapphire, but this video convinced me to get the original instead, thanks :)
Brother, SEA dash GULL is a silly sounding word which I don't believe exists, that being said when chinese watch industry becomes known for mechanisms and attention to details like swiss made ones people will care (my opinion). Otherwise it's a chinese fake of a chinese brand. Paying silly money for a silly sounding brand name is silly.
Give this gentleman a like for sharing his experience with us to help us prevent getting scammed. Good sir!
Hi, bonbonkickzz. It’s crazy but thanks. Hopefully someone else can learn and benefit. 🙌
Watch enthusiast's in the US & Europe have become very favorable towards Sea-Gull, so its no surprise that a fake industry has developed. We must always be on our guard.
Thank you for sharing this with us. t was a great report.
Well articulated, Jason. It’s true. Thanks, brother. 🤙
Fake industry in watches was even in 1800 so :D
I hope you didnt throw away the smaller Seagull. The smaller one's movement is also from Seagull. Right now, Sugess bought the right to reproduce the product which is why people confused. However, Sugess bought the produced movement from Seagull only.
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The smaller seagull you have was launched by Seagull itself 11 years ago. Its a mechanical tourbillon movement.
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the 42mm dial you have is an automatic tourbillon... that automatic tourbillon, even Sugess doesn't have it. (with the exact design)
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Final thought: I don't know about the warranty on the smaller watch. But yes, it's better to buy the 42mm Tourbillon from Seagull.
Personally, I am a lazy person. I hate that I have to wind up the watch every time.
An expert review of this wonderful timepiece - and perfectly presented as well. Congrats and many thanks!
Thanks so much, tronkel1. 🤙
What an unexpected turn of events. Even so, it's still impressive how the fake still is a tourbillion and does use a seagull movement, despite the case and dial being fake.
They probably obtained an actual seagull tourbillon movement and built it from there.
@@whatsonthewrist I agree...that's a Sea Gull movement. A tourbillion is not an easy watch to make and Sea Gull have taken the price down to almost a loss on every unit.
The stitching on that fake is absolutely horrendous! Glad you figured this out. thank you for uploading this video.
Yes thank you. There are so many more examples, just too many to mention.
Wow, that is crazy my friend. I am glad it all worked out. I thought the fake looked good, but side by side their is just that added refinement to the real deal. Thanks for sharing this story with everyone and hopefully it will help keep others from getting scammed.
I hope so too, that others can learn. Thanks, John. 🙌
For anyone new, Sea-Gull sells their tourbillon watches again now - theyre around RMB999 or around $150
Hey Rich, This was a total teachable moment that we can all learn from. Thanks for sharing
Hi, James. It’s definitely all about finding a legit source on rare watches. Thanks, brother.
Interesting to do the real vs fake with Seasgull; where typically with the higher end watches [roles, ap, iwc, etc]
and swatchmoonwatch, too.
One is an automatic tourbillion, another one is a hand willing tourbillon.
They were owned by government but went public around Y2000. One important point: the rear Seagull watch has a signed seagull movement. The fake one does not.
Thank you, Hanna. Good eye.
How can you get scammed if you just order from the seagull website itself seagullwatchcompany
There are a lot of websites that claim to be a genuine Sea-Gull store when they are not, JGab.
@@whatsonthewrist oh yeah I see. Its hard to imagine why they would fake a Sea-gull watch haha. Good work
Thanks, JGab. 👊
These are for sale nowadays for under £600 …. The guy from Watchfinder reviewed one saying it’s good for £600. How did you pay so much for one ?
Crazy story. I’d only buy them from the sea-gull AliExpress store
Hi, nintendokings. Fortunately it worked out. 🤙
I have a quasi vintage pre-owned -Rolex purchased a few years ago from a big name lux watch internet outfit that I still have occasional doubts about. Yes, they have their in house watch makers, authenticity is part of their reputation, but have my doubts as to 100% original parts. The bitch is, opening one and having to replace seals. It's a $5k watch, so not like I'm on the hook for large money. Eventually I guess I will find out when I have it serviced. Nice to see you, Rich. Best, JP
You have an interesting story. That would be intriguing to find out, if you ever make that video. Good to see you too, JP. I hope you had you Dunkin’. 🍩 ☕️
I'd choose the fake ! It is non-self-winding but is thinner. The beauty is in the tourbillon rather than dial features. The 'fake' strap is nicer too.
Hmm.
Where did you get the real one and how much ?
The real one has automatic movement as compared to the replica which requires winding, is that correct ?
Hi, Stomo1709. Yes if I recall the fake had a manual wound movement. I got mine from Faoiki.com. I also left the link in the description. They are an AD for Sea-Gull.
Remember John Denver sang, 'I'm sorry the way things were in China...' n 40+ ั yrs later many thing u buy comes from China n cheaper.
True, Chai.
I love the irony of a Chinese watch being counterfeited!
Well to be fair it’s not any Chinese made watch that had a doppelgänger.
wow where can I get some sea gull tourbillions?
I left a link to the store that helped me in the videos description, Rentsy.
I do not agree that this is fake, it's just two different models with two different mechanisms (one with automatic winding, the other without it) and two different housings (one 40mm thin, the other 41mm thick).
They took the first watch back because they didn’t make it within their walls.
@@whatsonthewrist You said 10:20 you bought them from a third-party seller. Maybe the seller just took them back to avoid fraud charges? It is easier for the seller to agree with the buyer, apologize and return the money, than to argue and conduct an examination of originality. Even if the stuff is really original.
@@fakenodata1548 The third party is an AD. In any case it worked out.
And that's the issue with Sea-Gull, they don't care. They sell their movements to anybody and give permission to anybody to make identical watches. The 1963 is a good example, they only required makers replicating it not to use a solid back, they told them as long as they use transparent case backs they can copy anything else they want. So all watches made with Sea-Gull movements are essentially Sea-Gulls now.
I question from a business perspective why they diluted their brand name doing this, I can only assume they think it's more profitable to sell the movements to makers and give them free rein on replicating them, while also selling their own watches.
As to an authorized Sea-Gull supplier, they don't exist, some of the largest watch supply companies in the world can not become an authorized dealer. Sea-Gull has told them they don't do it, if they want watches or movements then just order them. If they had an authorized dealer program it would effect their profit on selling movements to makers who copy the watches. The largest suppliers in the world, such as Otto Frei, and Cousins-UK have disclaimers. When you purchase Sea-Gull movements from them, they say the movement was purchased from Sea-Gull, but they do no guarantee, or have any verification it's authentic, and you're buying at your own risk.
Above all, at the beginning Sea gull didn't release 1963 to markets. It's just a small amount of souvenirs for veteran. You know the "small" workshop can buy Sea gull's movements include st19. They made lots of 1963(they also design panda). Later Sea gull decide to release 1963 only 5500 pieces of it. It's limited. But now Sea gull stil not sold it out.... In the other side, some design of Sea gull is not as good as "small" workshop.
Thank you, Tong for sharing this.
So where we can buy a real one cause seagull is not available on most of the mall ?
Hi, HVAC AE. I think I included the authentic seagull link to the online store in the description. Faioki.com
@whatsonthewrist: Hi Rich, maybe the "fake" watch is a fake of a Manual Winding version of the watch?
What's this model called? Can't find jt anywhere
Hi, Career Programming. I left a link to the store in the description of the video. Faoiki.com.
What is (as I hear it) "gealashe"?
The detailed pattern on the dial.
I have the Seagull 1963 very nice watch outher than that I haven't looked at their watches much , I'm glad you can got the situation straighten out Nice looking watch !! Congratulations 🎉
Congrats on your 1963. Thanks. Sorry just been busy but I checked out one of the shows with Blueshirt on it that you were talking about. Thank you, Junior. 🙌
@@whatsonthewrist I think you would like the live stream it would be nice to have you on !!
@Junior. Whomever is in charge, please let him know to send me an invite and I’ll do my best to join. Thank you, sir.
@@whatsonthewrist Blue Shirt Buddha is one of The people , I'll let him know . During the show they send out a link to join the show ! But he could have you on as a special guest since your a Utube celebrity !😂
Thanks for making me laugh a loud. That was funny. Nonsense but funny. Please nothing special but let’s try it when you guys are on and if timing works out then wonderful. What’s the channel again...Showcase?
Nice video. Thanks for being honest with us Rich.
Thanks, BSB. Hopefully this is helpful for someone. 🙌
I keep trying to get Richie to check out Flippin Zippo and Join the discord !!
Looks like on the fake it shows all the odd numbered dates, but the authentic skips by 2. That at least should have been a dead giveaway (not judging you, I am not good at spotting fakes, but that seems like a pretty big difference... that's why the numbers are squished....)
There were definitely several discrepancies, Merc Fredis.
@@whatsonthewrist Yeah... I'm glad you finally got the watch you wanted though.
I am a poor man and can only buy watches less than $200 or so.. I have looked on some sites for Seagull 1963 (Aliexpress, Ebay) but even those, there is so much variation. I can't tell what is authentic and what is not... I also understand there is a difference between Sea-Gull and Seagull. I guess they all have an authentic movement so, that's good...
My perfect Seagull would be 40mm, sapphire crystal, display caseback. Oh well I'll probably just buy another toy :-) Thanks for the video.
I reviewed a different Sea-Gull in a smaller size. It was a Sea-Gull Matrix maybe more to your preference, Merc.
Which online store is a good one to buy an original Seagull?
Hi, Magnus Hsu. May I suggest Faioki.com. They helped me and is an AD for Seagull. I think I also left their link in the description.
Well, Bonia has a new Tourbillon Watch... :'D
Enjoy your next tourbillon from either brand. They’re nice to look at indeed. 🤙
Hi rich. it has been a while since you made a thorough and detailed watch review which reflect your watch knowledge and love of the industry. I really enjoyed this video and probably I will pick up one Sea-Gull watch when I go to China early next year.... Hopefully we will get the vaccine and this pandemic will be over by then.
Thanks again and great video, Rich. have a wonderful day.
Hi, Alex. I felt this video needed to be made. It was actually longer as I pointed out every single details on the fake, but I think it was enough to get the point. The dial is thoroughly flawed. And yes let’s hope for a vaccine sooner than later. 🤙
Where can i buy a real one? The link in the description does not work in my country (europe)
Hi, David. Try to Google Faioki watches and maybe it will come up in your country. If not let me know and I’ll see what I can do further.
@David. You can also email Jeffrey at Faoiki at support@faioki.com. Jeffrey will take care of you.
@@whatsonthewrist ok thanks for the answer
@whatsonthewrist: Hi Rich, have you checked if the "fake" watch has a genuine version from Sea-Gull? It seems the "fake" is a wind-up watch, so the move is different and not self-winding.
Hi, Toshi-ki. The movement seems to be a seagull movement but the rest of the watch isn’t. It was not produced by seagull.
@@whatsonthewrist Thanks for reply ... I suppose there is a real Manual Winding version too? Maybe a comparison of that will add to this video, too. = )
Interesting idea but perhaps a separate and stand alone video.
Another idea: Do a video to understand the relationship between the parent watch maker and other watch manufacturers using Sea-Gull movements ... and discuss when it should be called "fake", or "Replica" instead, or the watch is from a "Sponsored Factory" as tolan65 printed in his comments.
A fake is when a third party makes a knock off and tries to pass the original brand as theirs. A replica is a look alike but without using the original brand name.
At least you got some interesting content out of it.🤷🏻♂️ I need some of those cuff links.
Cool cuff links indeed. Cheers, Land Scapes. 🤙
ITS NOT FUCKING FAKE ITS JUST A DIFFERENT MODEL!!! THEY ARE ALL MADE BY THE SAME FACTORY!!!
Im in contact with the factory and i PROMISE you they are both absolutely real and made by the same factory.
They are and always will be cheap chinese watches. They change the design between the automatic and manual variants. That’s how it is.
1. You get what you pay for.
2. If something is too good to true it usually isn’t
All good. But if I spend 5.000-80.000 Euro on a watch I do not buy a chinese one. That is the price they are sold in Aliexpress currently from sea-gull.
If you want to buy a ok quality tourbillon then you go for a sugess and you get a cool piece for 700 Euro. It is a cool gadget but it is not the highest quality.
I’m sorry which one is the fake one? I’m confused
The smaller one.
For lower budget to get into turbillons would you recommend the faioki turbillon Neptune on the same site you linked in the comments? Is the turbillon a seagull one or not? Thanks!
Hi, Josh. No the Faioki tourbillon is not a Sea-Gull. It uses movements by HWC. Good movement choice.
@@whatsonthewrist as a good first turbillon for someone who’s not rich but wants at least a few years out of it, would you personally recommend it based on its stats?
@ Josh. If you’re still referring to the Faioki house brand then it is a nice option at a fair cost. While HWC started making watches, they are better known for manufacturing very good movements. Faioki has been a trusted source and I know they work directly with HWC, no middle person involved. So long answer is sure if you like the look because the quality is good.
I'm on the search for a Regulator looking at Seagull , Thanks for the video Rich 👍
Hi, Junior. Let me know whenever you’re ready. It’s a minefield out there regarding legit Sea-Gull’s. But I have a Sea-Gull AD if you need a contact. 👊
@@whatsonthewrist Thanks Buddy 🙏 I haven't seen a Regulator on there website but the Seagull Ocean Star Diver looks nice have you seen one in person ? I'm also confused why they don't get the recognition as being a good watch .
@Junior. In fact the model you mentioned is my next video. Stay tuned...
It's strange when I see a lot of people being proud or their fake "Sea-gull 1963" not knowing that it's a fake watch! And alarming that it's being sold by reputable watch guys, that's even more concerning!. Anyway I stay away from any Chinese brand, but do appreciate your honesty Ritchie!.
You are comparing two different versions of seagull watches. Smaller one is ST8004, dial diameter 40mm. Larger one is ST8004SZ, dial diameter 42m.
Yes, John, you are correct. But the point was being sold a fake Sea-Gull with a dial that tried to pass as the ST8004ZS.
@@whatsonthewrist Oic. I noted that as well. Thanks.
Sea gull movement is very cheap. Such as st3600 series It's only about 125 yuan(19.5USdollar @6.4), goose neck trim should be added 2＄. In fact this is retail price. "small"workshop's price maybe less than 15＄...
I agree.
Would this type of watch movement stand up to daily usage?
Hi, msbrownbeast. I think so unless you have a very physical job. But it’s great in an office environment.
@@whatsonthewrist It really looks cool. Which would be the safest place to purchase this watch (i.e. a real one)?
I got this from Faoki.com. They are an AD for Seagull. I think I put their website in the description.
@@whatsonthewrist tks!
My pleasure. Also let me know if you’re interested in one. I think I might be able to help with a discount code. I don’t get a commission.
Sorry you got scammed; thanks for helping others in the future. When comparing the two watches however, just lay them down side by side, so we can see from one to the other. Holding them up one at at time, flipping them front to back, is disorienting.
Good point, Ron.
This would’ve been perfect if the whole video they are compared side by side.
If I recall there are side by sides, hopefully enough to identify any differences, Lardi.
hello.. may i ask how much is the real m182sk seagull. if you have an idea, i will really appreciate it. found m182sk online with a price tag of 150usd. i don't know if it's ligit.
Hi, Lemuel. Well the model you are referencing is not the same model I have. However, may I suggest contacting the company that helped me? I left the link to their website in the description. They are an AD for Seagull and are a great and legit source. Let me know how it goes in your quest.
@@whatsonthewrist thank you for the info. i will let you know if i will get the info i need.
My pleasure. 🤙
@@whatsonthewrist sir, any online store you can suggest that sells authentic seagull watches?
I just realize that you already got an answer of my last question. And its faioki.com..
By the way, i got a reply from them. They said the price is possible because the model is on sale right now in some areas.. 150usd is more or less fare enough if it's on sale..
How the original sea-gull watch has almost double in price in 1 year was 300 dollars before videos about this watch were online now almost 700 dollars from official store is strange to go up in price by such a increase...
@AAA AAA. Perhaps demand has something to do with it.
@@whatsonthewrist is maximum 200 to 300 dollars watch not worth 700 dollars at all. Good video you made anyway...
Thanks, AAA AAA.
There is no way this is 4k $, my friend got it for $500usd, it's real compared to your review
If someone would import genuine ones, and give them a makeover, remove dust and stains, ensure precision, and then sell on europe/US market, there would be money to be made.
What is your opinion on sugess watches?
@Yasyas. Decent and affordable designs. If I recall they use Sea-Gull movements.
@@whatsonthewrist Thx mate!
I own a moonphase branded Sugess, for the price I was more than surprised...
Keep up the good work, I like your channel!
Congrats on your Sugess. Who doesn’t like moonphases? And thanks man. 👌
You saying Chinese are making fakes of their own watches 🤔🤔🤔🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
F*@k!! Fake watch inception lol, how can you trust anything? Makes me hesitant now I was considering a Sugess or Sea-Korea which supposedly use genuine Seagull movements but now idk
The government will fix this oversight as soon as they get wind of this travesty. 😑 lol
Now I think I’ve seen them all! The Chinese got to the point where they’re faking their own watches.
I doubt if even this is bought from real Seagull. Many have mentioned that they bought from the real seagull website. Can somebody flash the real website url ?
Hey, Dev. I left a link in the description of the video to Sea-Gull’s official AD.
@@whatsonthewrist thank you
Until you've personally experienced the customer service, I wouldn't tell people they have great service. Any company can claim a great warranty without backing it up.
The seagull 1963 is now priced more than 400 dollars in China but under 200 outside of China? It must be a scam.
Hi, EH. More than you know. It’s so important to find a legit Sea-Gull dealer.
@@whatsonthewrist always buy it from online official store in Taobao China.
Faioki.com is also a legit Sea-Gull store. That’s where I got mine.
But the fake was at least decent, right?
Hi, Mike. The fake uses a Sea-Gull movement so the accuracy has been fine. However, the dial when you compare them is like night and day. The fake is deeply flawed. They’re all subtle until you see them both side by side. It’s very shoddy. 👀
This is a really interesting video! Thanks for telling your story.
Thank you, MrTw2009. 🤙
Wow who da thunk it.
Agreed, Watch Once-over. It was quite the experience. 🤷♂️
Fake doesnt have automatic handmonent coil charger
Rich, Amazon will allow you to return the watch especially if it is a fake. Good thing you could get a refund from your dealer.
Yes, the dealer showed proper integrity and I did not have to chase him down. He immediately made things right. Thank goodness...right?! But thanks, eseskay99! 🙏
Sorry to hurt your feeling but both are fake Seagull.... this is why I no longer buy Chinese watches.. I live in Tianjin and my home is literally 20 kilometers from Tianjin watch factory, showed this video to them (screenshots as I didn’t have vpn on my phone) and they told me this particular version is “tailor made”, which use genuine seagull movement but the case is not produced in Tianjin.
I think it would be more helpful to see the actual video, but thank you.
Hi, there. I am a Chinese, too. Your watch can be found in Seagull official store on Taobao, priced as 22,850 CNY. Also can be found on their official store on Aliexpress with generally the same price.
Don't worry about the one you have, it is genuine, apparently.
Someone just occasionally living in Tianjin or a low level employee of Seagull, their judgement is not important at all. Stick with the official store and you will be safe.
I guess you can call yhe watch an imitation watch according to seagull
Sure, why not.
Made it!
5 star warranty, aye😎
Yeah that’s a huge plus indeed. 🤙
It’s always appreciated, iDid. 🙌☕️
This watch is sold out from Seagull
Hi, A-Frame-Wedge. If you’re interested, let me know and I’ll put you in touch with my contact person who is an AD for Sea-Gull.
Rich, My theory is it is being made by North Korea to finance their weapons program.
Hmm...no but thanks for the chuckle, Steven. Good to see ya, brother. 🤔 👊
fake seagull? say it aint so rich!
Unfortunately it is so, Ed. 🤙
@@whatsonthewrist and let me guess. it was from CHY-NA!
Yes because Sea-Gull is a Chinese brand.
@@whatsonthewrist :-)
😜🤝
aliexpress store
Damn the Chinese are copying themselves
Hi, pope cosh. 🤷♂️
Feel secure...with the chinese govt...
Funny, Hong. It’s not Tik Tok. 😜
I would never spent a cent on Chinese watchmaking...the quality understanding and business ethics are just totally different to what can be expected from e.g. a German or Swiss brand...had a Seagull 1963 Chrono...had to go to through multiple version to find one without QC issues...especially I would never go for such a pretentious wanna be high horology piece...the best way to burn money.
Regardless of a watch’s origins, I would not use one unfortunate example to represent the entire country as there are many people who are pleased with their 1963. I could cite The Swiss or German made watches for the same thing based from a negative experience. Seiko had some issues, but we still love Japanese made watches. But as I said a Sea-Gull is not for everyone, Ron. ✌️
@@whatsonthewrist not just watch experiences...also in my job we had to deal with Chinese mentality and understanding of quality, as well as countless other goods made in china, handled over the years. It would be interesting to have the movement in your Seagull examined by a good watchmaker...could be interesting I suppose.
Yes I agree it could be quite informative and entertaining to have someone’s professional opinion on the tourbillon movement. We’ll see what we can do.
Do you mean that cheap Chinese crap is now being faked by more cheap Chinese crap. I'm shocked. The dial is actually a poorly executed copy of a Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece
You got Wished doT comed
Really appreciate your honesty . I've made lots of mistakes when it comes to watches and I know it hard to admit when you miss something but I'm glad to have the information so I'm paying more attention. 👍👍👍
Hey, Mark. Sorry to hear about your situations as well. I’m sure if I spent time with the fake that I would eventually notice the totality of their flaws. I hope so at least. Thanks for sharing your experiences, Mark. 😜
Good analysis. Oddly, I'm not averse to generic "replicas" without branding that don't purport to be what they aren't, so I'd not be averse to that movement in the fake case if they hadn't passed it off as a Sea-Gull watch.
Yes, I agree there’s nothing wrong with using a Sea-Gull movement , but it’s different trying to pass it off as the branded watch. Thank you, 馬文傑.
Damn, sorry to hear you got scammed. Your lesson learned will be a benefit to all of us. Thanks for sharing this!
It worked out, in the end, for me. I was fortunate. But thanks and it pleases me that someone can hopefully learn from my experience. Thank you, Alias Steve. 👌
Unless you eat, sleep and breathe high end watches of all types, it's best to buy them straight from the source or from a source-recommended retailer. It's so easy to be scammed on high end watches.
Yep. Agreed and fortunately for me it worked out. 🤙
Hello - I don't believe you have a fake watch there; I believe they're both authentic, just different versions. The one you're calling the real one is model ST8004ZS. Retails off their official Chinese website for 16800.00 Yuan (appx. USD $2,600), and in Canada and Europe for more than that (probably due to import fees, etc.). The second one, the one you're calling fake, is model 819.316. It's currently retailing off their official Chinese site for 959.00 Yuan (appx. USD$150). I'll give you the links for the official site so you can check out the differences. If you google Seagull Canada or Europe you can double check. Or, you can go to the wikipedia page, at the bottom you can find the links to the various global sites they sell through. Tricky stuff to stay on top of!
Here's the official site links for both models:
www.sea-gullmall.com/goods/detail/id/226/is_custom/0.html
www.sea-gullmall.com/goods/detail/id/262/is_custom/0.html
Cheers!
Hi, Andrew. Thanks for sharing this. Sea-Gull actually took the watch (the one I referenced as fake) because they did not manufacture it from within their facility. Hence all the misaligned numbers etc on the dial. It may use a genuine seagul movement but it’s not considered authentic since they didn’t manufacture it nor give permission to use their branding. Sea-Gull provided me with their authentic watch manufactured by them.
@@whatsonthewrist That's super encouraging, really cool they did that. They have a nice skeleton on their Chinese site that they don't sell over here...thinking of ordering it, and from your experience, sounds like a very good company to deal with!
May I recommend Jeffrey at Faoiki.com. He is an AD for Sea-Gull and he can help you get you a watch that is hard to find directly from Sea-Gull. I don’t get anything out of it, but I know he is very helpful and honest.
@@whatsonthewrist That's great - thanks for lead. Do you mind posting the company link again, it's not working...thanks!
@@andrewcorless4147 faioki.com. I also left the link in the description of the video. Let me know how it goes for you.
Awesome! Thanks for the comparison and information. I'll be saving my money! I started with an ST5 and haven't looked back. Love my Sea-Gull watches. Respect to you and the company.
Thanks man. Enjoy your collection.
I bought a SeaGull army watch from Times International and if it is a fake its of a quality I have a hard time believing.
Hopefully yours is legit, Christian 777.
Excellent video. Informative, just wish your side by side comparisons were a bit longer. It is not possible to compare without pausing the video. Thank you nonetheless.
Yes in hindsight I agree, Jim.
Thanks for the info. I like tourbillons just because I think they are cool. I wish seagull made one that was less dressy and more of an every day watch. My favorite as an example is by Hajime Asaoka. His project T tourbillon watch is perfect. Elegant, sporty enough to wear everyday, but not overdone calling for attention. Although way out of my price range. I’m also not a fan of the ERA watches. Something yells cheese with ERA when they advertise as a billionaire watch for everyone.
Hi, Noel. Yes I agree watching a tourbillon in action is a beautiful thing. I like the idea of a sportier model with one. Lol to ERA’s slogan.
The real one looks really nice. From what I understand China copies everything even Chinese items. If they can sell it, they will make it.
I remember back in the day, Street vendors in the city would be tripping over themselves and each other to sell you something. That's how China is.
When seakors has one too there’s absolutely no reason to fake it.
People makes fakes of anything that can make them money. Regardless of whether the product is Chinese, Swiss, etc.
Yep, Harry.
Your legit Tourbillon comes in an automatic movement?
Yes, Captain Obvious.
When i saw how much an authentic Tourbillon Sea-gull cost on the website...i lost all hope :( ......
Hi, Randolf. It’s definitely not spare change. Let me know and I might be able to help you with a discount through the AD. So let there be hope.
Where do I buy the real sea-Gull and how much? I want this exact watch
Hi, Dr. Kevin Lun. May I suggest Faoiki.com. They are an AD for Sea-Gull. I left a link in the description of the video. You can get a discount by mentioning my channel. I do not get a commission.
@@whatsonthewrist thank you!! If there is ever and issue with this who would I bring it for warranty/servicing)
@Dr. Kevin Lun. I imagine you can go thru Faoiki since they get the watches directly from Sea-Gull. Or you can send it directly to Sea-Gull. The warranty card is included. That is my understanding but you can confirm with Faoiki.
It is shocking that now even high-end Sea-Gull watches are being copied. But due to the low production and wholesale cost of a Chinese tourbillon movement, it is just too tempting to copy this kind of watch and to earn a tremendous amount of money.
Even Sea-Gull itself make a huge amount of profit with their Tourbillon watches. No wonder they offer a lifetime free service. It has been already calculated into the official retail price.
But in general, if you can buy a genuine Sea-Gull watch, their quality today is the same as with any lower priced Swiss watch. If not slightly better in some tiny details, like a sapphire crystal for even their low priced dress watches.
Hi, Blau. I agree. My real Sea-Gull is a real gem and beautiful to look at. No issues. 🤙
@@whatsonthewrist I own 3 original Sea-Gull watches bought at their flagship stores in China. Quality and accuracy are the same as with Tissot, Longines or Certina.
Congrats on yours. Too bad it’s such a minefield to land a real one but when you do, it’s worth it.
There are so many fakes and copycats of Sea Gull in china, especially Airforce 1963.
Honestly I'm tempted to buy one of those cheap aliexpress tourbillon watches. At least those are definitely bottom basement "it's a movement that works" and there's little chance of being scammed as long as the balance wheel cage is rotating.
Hi, System11 YT. Well it depends on what you really want from your watch.
@@whatsonthewrist I'm at the "that is an attractive or interesting design" stage. I'm putting money aside for one of the new Accutron Spaceviews at the moment.
Nice option to aim for regarding the Spaceview. 👌
Idk how you missed the single most obvious difference. The fake one has dates going up in odd numbers while the real one has different numbering completely.
Hi, Michael. I think I might have pointed that out. There are a few more differences I noticed since. On the fake, the date spills onto the rehaut area while the real one stays within the ring.
It isn't real alligator band....it is stamped leather
Surprisingly it’s alligator, NoldorinPrince.
There was an article of how the fake Sea-Gulls were busted by the police. Apparently it was an employee with more than 10 years working in the company that started selling out the blueprints and parts.
On the topic of Chinese watches, I always tell people my watches are Chinese... even when they are not (although parts were probably manufactured there). This way I avoid thieves.
If someone, man or woman, judge me by the watches I wear, they are not worth my time much less my friendship.
Hi, feralbear3615. Nice deterrent to protect your watches and friendships. 👌
So, completely different movements.
Yes, true.
First thing that stood out to me was the word "Tourbillon" not being in all-caps on the fake. I was considering ordering one of the cheaper 1963s since it was 40mm, had lume and sapphire, but this video convinced me to get the original instead, thanks :)
Hi, marpe. I won’t disagree with you. Fortunately the original is reasonably priced too. Let me know once you get it.
@@whatsonthewrist reasonably priced???
SEA-GULL 1963 is $550
RED STAR 1963 is $150
they are literally the same,how is that reasonable?
How is a seagull worth faking?
Their movements are pretty good and they’re brand recognition is solid.
Brother, SEA dash GULL is a silly sounding word which I don't believe exists, that being said when chinese watch industry becomes known for mechanisms and attention to details like swiss made ones people will care (my opinion). Otherwise it's a chinese fake of a chinese brand. Paying silly money for a silly sounding brand name is silly.