The text is significant though - Jody should have found someone to translate it: - official watch says: China, Tianjin Watch Factory (which is the official name of the 1955 founded watch company) - unofficial says just: China, Tianjin
As a general point, what I really like about it as well as a few similar watches (e.g. the Red Star chronograph) is the fact that it’s openly, proudly Chinese. It’s not trying to knock something else off or trying to hide what it is. Even if Chinese watches are (massively) less desirable than Swiss or Japanese watches, the mere fact that it’s something authentic makes it desirable in its own right.
@@genghiskhan7041 you didn't name your turd after an Italian luxury turd brand and copied the design of some world famous much more high quality turds so yes, I would respect your turd more for being authentic. Reminder that all Japanese technology was considered cheap trash a few decades ago and 90+% of Swiss watchmakers went bankrupt during the quartz revolution because they got outdone by Japanese watches in every way from price to quality. Things change.
I own the unofficial one. Seeing them compared side by side. I prefer the warmer look and the larger bezel of the unofficial one, it gives it a more vintage feel. Last time I checked it's accuracy was within +-2 seconds
I think the official one is more beautiful. I have both, and the official strap is much more soft. Serial number on the case back makes the watch so special. The most important is the genuine 1963 has 2 years warranty. The fake one was a trash, it struck after 5-months running.
I own two of these. A 40mm Chrono Heritage M1963/X - SEA-GULL ST1901 bought directly from Sugess Watch in China and a 40mm limited edition Red Star bronze Seagull 1963 that came from the official Seagull 1963 store in Belgium. The Seagull is a watch that is hard to fault and I‘m quite fond of both of mine but my customer experience with both companies was hardly satisfactory. In sum I was swindled twice. The Sugess was supposed to come with the Swan Neck movement but didn‘t and unfortunately too much time had elapsed before I found out for me to be able to do anything about it. As for the Belgian Seagull 1963, it was only after I had received it that I found out that they do not individually number their limited edition watches (instead all 300 are numbered 1/300) and that it was missing it‘s tag, manual and registration QR code. It was also shipped about two months past it‘s preassigned shipping date. The company in Belgium casually dismissed my concerns and when I asked to return it they informed me that the 14 day return policy had expired. Be very careful who you buy from. The Seagull 1963 company in Belgium seems rotten to the core. I wouldn’t deal with them again if they paid me. BEWARE.
Sea-gull are shooting themselves in the foot by overpricing these and making them limited. If they made these 200 dolars and regular production, they would effectively kill the market for other variants.
They are all probably owned by the same Chinese firms and wouldn't be surprised if they are made in the same factory... so the official may be there to be a high margin cash grab while the rest are there for the average Joe looking for a bargain.
Thanks for the video Jody! For the bottom Chinese text, the unofficial version says "China, Tianjin", while official version says "China" on the top, and "Tianjin watch factory" on the bottom. Another interesting thing is that if you do a bit of digging around, some Aliexpress stores also list an unofficial version that is advertised to have a modified movement with a gooseneck regulator for about $10 extra - I don't have that version, or know if they are as advertised, but it's something people might want to look into.
Glad someone pointed the text out. I actually think it's significant because Tianjin Watch Factory was the original name of Sea-gull and that original name was used in 1955 when it was founded.
@@simonrobbins8357 My Seagull 1963 has "Made in China" written on it, but in Traditional Chinese rather than Simplified Chinese (中國製造) rather than (中国制造). I guess it would be accurate if it was trying to look like it was made before China switched to the simplified system.
Thank you Jody for this video. For a good interpretation it would have been even more explicit to compare two versions with the same acrylic glass. For information, since 2 or 3 years the unofficial versions have a transparent back with a larger opening than the one in the video. It would also have been nice to open the official version to see if the finish is better as claimed by some people. I think that the official version benefits from selected movements, the standard movements being intended for the other suppliers but nothing imho that justifies such a huge price difference.
I've scoured reddit threads and apparently people are saying that the unofficial version starts to show signs of weakness after a few months or years (1 or 2 years, depending on how often the watch is worn), with some saying that the watch can't be a daily driver. Apparently, on the official version, the movements are checked and inspected, so they don't suffer from the weaknesses of the unofficial version, and even though it's more expensive, that's why I'm leaning towards buying the official version. I want to keep this watch for years, even my whole life, so I go for quality! (I lived in China for years, so there's also a sentimental value for me in having this Chinese watch).
I have the unofficial version and prefer it. The display case back and sapphire crystal are improvements that I like. I am not a fan of cloth straps so I put a shark mesh band on mine. The polished mesh works well with the all polished case.
I remember talking about this 3 years ago in a previous video. Nice research. One more thing I'd like to add, the movement on the genuine is signed by Seagull and visibly has more quality than the 3rd party one. Btw got mine on 11/11/2019 at the great price of 250 euros (sales + coupons)
Thanks for this video, I’ve often wondered the exact same thing as I went to buy my 63 two months ago. I bought through Red Star the apparent non-official, 42mm, sapphire, display case back, and I love it, took off the green nato and put on the leather strap. It’s one of the few mechanicals I bought that I’ve never opened to regulate, it keeps crazy excellent time.
i went red star as well, really wanted the display case back and a factory made watch. Though i really like the smaller bezel on the orginal now that i see it, the bezel reflects a bit of light and toneing that down through a smaller bezel could be really nice.
@@eric21881The larger bezel is only on the unofficial one on this video because he chose the sapphire crystal. You can have the unofficial one identical to the official with the exception of the face printing.
I just picked up the “unofficial” version and really like the display back & that’s what caused me to go “unofficial”. Cheaper with more features & still the same movement, case and dial? Yea. It was a no brainer for picking up another fun military inspired timepiece
Jody I am really glad it was you who made this video as it’s been screaming out to be made for years. You have the cams conclusion as me and many others. It’s far too expensive for what it is and for the old tech. The Sea-Gull movements tend to have a swan neck regulator which for tinkerers like me is useful but for an owner who can’t even see it under the case back it’s pointless. I have the cheaper version and love it for what it is. A very affordable double register mechanical chronograph. Brilliant to learn how the movement works on too. You would have to be a bit mad to buy the same watch for $600 especially when the cheap one also comes on sapphire if you want it. For the price they want there are far better watches out there so like you say you would have to REALLY want one. Good video mate.
This is the dilemma I run into in everything that I collect. Fragrance, sneakers, etc. If someone is making the exact same thing for a quarter of the price, it makes it difficult to buy the 'official' product. If it can be sold at a quarter of the price it means that the original has artificially inflated the price due to the brand name, so I don't really feel bad buying the dupe/clone/rep. If the price is within 20-30% then sure I don't mind supporting the original company, and celebrating their IP, but when companies wildly inflate the price because they are dining out on reputation and brand name I feel less likely to do so.
I'm not buying the "official" label. We've been over this before Jody, and I reckon that Sea-Gull have a very tenuous at best claim to being official, they had not made this watch for decades until an ex-employee set up a deal to revive it in Hong Kong and Sea-Gull would supply movements. I reckon Sea-Gull got greedy. Great video Jody, I love my little 1963 with acrylic crystal and view it for what it is - a Chinese watch where every second batch has differences, usually in the sub-dial hands
Love my unauthentic seagull. Think if I was so inclined (I am not) I would get the official one. It would make you feel like a Prince knowing everyone else is rocking a unauthentic knockoff and you have the real deal.
Great video. The movement is regardless excellent. The back story is fascinating, with Seagull buying the design and equipment to make it, and add more jewels.
My 1963 came from Seakoss. The NATO strap it came with was much nicer, and it came with a brown leather that's nice too. That brown leather strap dresses it up way nicer than I expected.
Just received a 40mm one with a cleaner looking dial that was bought from Sugess Watch. Love it. Just wish the nato straps are of better quality to match the watch.
The extra line of text on the official watch is just two characters but I think it looks better with the single line. It's a minor thing really but all of the other differences are pretty trivial as well. It would never enter my mind to pay that much for one of these. Great video!
First line means China = Zhōngguó (as in made in China). The second line means Tianjin Watch factory = Tiānjin shōubiăo chăng (where the original Sea-Gull was made back in 1963)
Word is that the expensive version has such things as actual quality control with their movements. What kept me from buying one of the cheaper ones was the number of posts of people complaining about their watch failing within the first year of ownership. Right now, I would go for a quartz (!) version of the watch. The cheapest option, also made in china with the iconic look but reliable.
I have wondered about QC differences between the two. I have two unofficial ones and both required work within 6 months which I was able to do myself. (One was a loose screw preventing chrono running and the other was the chrono reset in the movement broke and I bought a spare movement for parts to fix it).
I just pulled the trigger on the Sugess unofficial Segull 1963! It’s far better than the original as it has a sapphire crystal and a see through case back with the gold plated swan neck adjuster. There is zero reason to buy the official one for 3x the price when the movement infact is from the Tianjin factory so essentially both are same!
Great video mate, very useful, thanks! There is also a manufacturer in Hong Kong who makes different and very interesting versions of these watches, they are called HKED, it would be cool if you could review one of their pieces.
If it were to have official versions, we would all have omega's, rolex's and other original high-end watches... but it is not like that... thanks for clarifying the doubts of millions of people my dear, greetings from Caracas, Venezuela
A limited edition of any published work, product, artwork, etc usually has a higher price tag. As well as price, consider: * customer service * maintenance * authenticity * accuracy * reliability * durability * longevity.
I finally get one. Sapphire 40mm with a swan/goose neck regulator. Wow...just wow. I cannot say anything else to express myself. What an astonishing piece of watchmaking.
I need an acrylic crystal and it's a Red Star from Marc at Long Island and believe he sells the Red Star brand, my hope is the domed crystal is the same on both watches and i can find a new piece!
Firstly, the QR codes can be authentificated via WeChat - not the internet. - The Movement on the original Version is much better decorated and very nicely engraved with chinese scripture. The movement quality is also better. I bought my original one for $280 (also from the Store you got yours), so - its absolutely true - the price went up by a great margin. Fortunately, back then I bought over 30 original Sea-Gull Watches (mostly from that Store) - the new price for them hast often doubled or tripled so i am not unhappy :D
The prices of all watches have gone up in the past few years. I've got two Swiss watches that have gone up 25% in price since purchase 3 years ago, so this is nothing out of the norm. That being said, I've got the official Sea-Gull 22 ZUAN w/sapphire crystal...love it.
I have the unofficial version. I bought through your link, last year. The one thing i don't like, is the lume on hands. Tinny, unnecessary, and brake the stetics on my opinion.
Jody, I have one that I bought for £20 on AliExpress! My one looks identical to both these two watches. However my one is quartz and the dimensions seem a bit bigger
@@SleepyRainRealm I bet you are right. Watching Jody constantly makes me want to buy more watches. Sometimes I throw in a quartz to keep the prize down.
I got a Red Star SG1963 38mm with swan neck & sapphire dome and OG sub-dial hands from the Seakoss store on AliExpress. Love the watch, it looks great. HOWEVER: It needs regulated, badly. It looses MINUTES per hour. Sometimes the seconds sub-dial stops ticking. The red timer hand gets stuck (not often, but once is enough & it has occurred more than once) when passing 12:00. Since it doesn't keep proper time and cannot be relied upon, I never wear the little beauty. It's a really nice looking & complex paperweight. I've looked into a servicing and now my cheap auto chrono would be costing less to replace outright (😐) than to have serviced (???) Arrrghh Prbly should take advantage of the 11.11 sale to get right with this. 🤔 Edit: Upon reading the statements above, it begs the question "why"? I obviously got a lemon, but would a same person take the risk of getting burned 2x or just take the 'L' and move on? I've already spent the replacement costs on some 11.11 Pagani PD1701 Speedy clomages... 🤷🏼 Watch ppl are not sane
Proud to say I just purchased my first Seagull I will get it appraised @ 4:05 he mentioned he did not know what the text meant; well using snap pic of my own and google translate top text is CHINA or zhong guo and bottom text is Tianjin watch factory.. my model is the Panda which doesnt look the same the numbers are Bars not Numerical Digits not sure if that makes a difference ... the back cover also is engraved with CLASSIC EDITION .... any one that as information please reply back to help the rest of the community ... this is my first investment watch and turns out its muddy waters to start but I am not detoured from future purchases I will only buy watches I am willing to wear so even if its a waste of money its really not because I still have a watch style I enjoy. Congrats to all whom start and good luck to you all.
The movements that Sea-Gull uses for the watches they produce themselves are top-grade movements, whereas the third-party manufacturers have to settle with whatever quality they can get their hands on.
Definitely not true, seagull produces a ton of these movements, it is possible they have a bit tighter margins for their own, but at only 5500 units there are still so much movements left that this wouldn't make a difference. I have a strela reproduction which uses the st19 movement and it runs +0+1. Also unofficial movements can have swan neck regulators which makes it very easy to regulate
@@Louiscare I really doubt, Sea-Gull used that chronograph movement solely for this 1963 model. Also, it doesn't mean that the top grade movements are unavailable for purchase for third party manufacturers. I'm only stating, that Sea-Gull itself uses only their top-grade movements for their watches.
@@Aleister82 I totally agree with you, judging by the plethora of posts about non-officials, lots of people have reliability problems with their watches. As you say, the official version of Seagull uses the best movements, top quality, whereas it's not uncommon for non-official watches to break after 8 months, a year or even two years. People call it a disposable 'watch', and in Europe you can get it for between 250 and 350 euros, depending on where the unofficial one comes from. Personally, I don't feel like throwing away 300-400 euros, so that's why I'm going for the official version. It's more expensive, but it'll last.
FYI, the text on A's dial is "China TianJin wristwatch factory", and that on B's dial is "China Tianjin". No doubt that tracks with what we know about these wristwatches.
This watch is a replica of the first watch in outer space, Russian Strela. The design is almost identical and it uses Russian Poljot 3133 Caliber, Russians bought the machines for manufacturing the caliber in the 70s
Bought an unofficial one recently and I'm very happy. The sapphire is worth it even though the bezel is a bit chunky and the display back is nice. A good watch.
You should have known that any unofficial/fake version is adding value to the true version. The more the fake models are, the better for the official one.
4:45 watch A has a badly driven chronograph that has to be more carrefuly regulared on the engaging wheel => look at the chronograph hand : no fluid movement but some jumps ...
Based on reviews on this trusted watch channel, I have a champagne and Orange Sugess ‘Top Time’ homage with the ST1901 that is sold under the ‘1963’ style and it’s one of my favorite watches to look at. I purchased 2 from the Sugess store and the other one uses an automatic movement with an intricate silver dial and blued hands that is almost too nice to wear. I like these because they have a vintage vibe about them and are different from the ‘diver’ style that comprises most of my collection. Thanks to this channel, I have broadened my tastes and purchased a few pieces that I would not have otherwise considered. I’m not quite ready for a Vostok yet but maybe someday, until then I’ll be watching for Just one more watch that I can’t live without! 😂
One of the few Ali watches I want. Anyone recommend an Ali store to buy from. I hate the endless search with all the horrible or non existent descriptions. Thanks for the video man.
There is another advantage to the official one - the dial text: - official watch says: China, Tianjin Watch Factory (which is the official name of the 1955 founded watch company). - unofficial watch says just: China, Tianjin. That in itself is worth a bit more credit as it's historically more accurate.
The official non-sale price is starting to get close to Swiss chrono prices, like it's over half the price of some of Hamilton's offerings. I'd be hard pressed to pick an octogenarian movement over that at that price. But the cheap one is still a great buy.
Amazon U.S. has the Sea-Gull at $711 and the Sugess at $269. There's also a Mukemao for $189 (on sale). I like everything about these watches except for the thickness (13.5mm) and the weight.
I do like the Sea-Gull Chronograph,its odd i feel hard pressed to buy the Official Sea-Gull because of the price,however I am less bothered the price of the Baltic Bicompax.They both use the Sea-Gull ST1901 movement.Maybe I will get all 3.
the main difference is that seagull models are made in a completely different factory to the cheaper alternatives, the only step up in quality you're going to get is the finishing on the case and the dial, the movement remains the same. the disparity in price is because seagull is looking to position themselves as a luxury chinese brand and carving out their own niche among the european giants in watchmaking. i think the high price is a good thing for watchmaking and the timekeeping culture as a whole, so eventually (way down the line) chinese timepieces can be seen by the wider and general populace as something desirable and shed away the reputation of being cheaply made knock offs that will break in 2 days. as a side note, seagull has a good track record with honoring their warranties and with aliexpress, your mileage will vary (that being said, my experience with both have been great)
As far as I recall the original reasons to get the 1963 (either version) was always 1) for the ST19 movement (at the time the only inexpensive watch with an automatic chronograph) and 2) the Vostok kitsch of the Chinese Airforce on the dial. Today I would go with the Sugess branded ST19 movement Chronograph watch ... imo looks better/ more clean/ more traditional/ less kitschy than the 1963 with the same movement in a display caseback.
Are you talking about this watch: "Sugess Seagull Movement 1963 Automatic Mechanical Watch For Men 40mm Fashion Pilot Self Wind Sapphire Men Watch Man Luxury Date?"
I own the unofficial one which was about £100 when I bought it. I wouldn't dream of paying the inflated price for the official one. My only complaint is the crown is rather small and makes winding a bit awkward.
Not a big fan of "the look", but always liked the value in the mechanical chrono movement. So, I went with a Hemel Airfoil instead! Same wonderful movement, but in an honestly good looking package.
I'd probably pay, at most, $30 or so more for the official watch, all else being equal. One question I don't think has been addressed: is there a warranty or support difference? That might sway it. Honestly I love the look of the unofficial one's sapphire and bezel and I"m a sucker for case backs, so I'd save the extra $400 and get what I wanted more in the first place. Thanks, Jody :D
Well both watches have to go back to China, but I think there would be more value in the 2 year warranty of the original. I should have mentioned that, you are right!
@@JustOneMoreWatch I never see a review from Sugess in this channel. I think they have great offering that might be good value for you to highlight. Great vid, great content as usual.🙏
I can't bring myself to get one because of that red star and it's implications, yet I have zero problem getting a flieger. I'm not saying it makes sense, but that's the only reason I haven't bought one. Maybe one day I'll get over it. 😎
I feel like you could’ve changed the names from Sea-gull to Seiko and Seagull to San Martin and it would be the same argument we have about most Ali express watches.
I'm not a massive fan of anything when it comes to luxury products in life hahaaa. Specially watches, yes I'm a watch enthusiast BUT I have never obsessed over any of them, I buy what I can obviously.
Hi Jody! Year ago I had conversations with man from channel "Sea Gull 1963" and he wrote me: "Tomas from the Red Star is the original designer from this homage (!!) watch in the yearly 2000's when he was working for Tianjin Watch Group Honkong (back then Sea Gull was split up in different sisters companis over different locations). All watches you see on line use genius Sea Gull ST 1901 movements from Tianjin but since Tomas never registered intellectual propertys of this watch design wich has based on the watch 1963 but looks completely different, in theory everyone could produce this piece :) The discussion between fake and real is s funny one since Red Star is the original producer of this homage watch but use a Sea Gull movement!" So, I hope this information will be useful to you!
Less text on the dial, display case back, and the option for sapphire? I think I prefer the cheaper option!
That’s the one I’ve had for 10 months. It’s working perfectly and looks great.
The text is significant though - Jody should have found someone to translate it:
- official watch says: China, Tianjin Watch Factory (which is the official name of the 1955 founded watch company)
- unofficial says just: China, Tianjin
@@alectang1614 one of my friends told me it means Tianjin Watch Factory or something like that.
@@alectang1614 significant for some absolutely, still not sure that it's a $400 significance
100% a no brainer, cheaper wins hands down.
As a general point, what I really like about it as well as a few similar watches (e.g. the Red Star chronograph) is the fact that it’s openly, proudly Chinese. It’s not trying to knock something else off or trying to hide what it is.
Even if Chinese watches are (massively) less desirable than Swiss or Japanese watches, the mere fact that it’s something authentic makes it desirable in its own right.
Not really. I mean, I could crap in a box and it would be an authentic turd, but does that make it desirable?
@@genghiskhan7041 what a retarded point
@@genghiskhan7041 Depends. Is the author of said turd Marcel Duchamp or Jeff Koons?
@@Max_Mustermann Hey, how did you know I'm Marcel Duchamp?
@@genghiskhan7041 you didn't name your turd after an Italian luxury turd brand and copied the design of some world famous much more high quality turds so yes, I would respect your turd more for being authentic.
Reminder that all Japanese technology was considered cheap trash a few decades ago and 90+% of Swiss watchmakers went bankrupt during the quartz revolution because they got outdone by Japanese watches in every way from price to quality.
Things change.
I own the unofficial one. Seeing them compared side by side. I prefer the warmer look and the larger bezel of the unofficial one, it gives it a more vintage feel. Last time I checked it's accuracy was within +-2 seconds
The fake 1963 does not use a Seagull movement, the quality is very poor, and it supports the genuine 1963.
@@zhu8404, what movement has the unofficial inside?
@@J0hnny8ravo same same
@@zhu8404 lol
I think the official one is more beautiful. I have both, and the official strap is much more soft. Serial number on the case back makes the watch so special. The most important is the genuine 1963 has 2 years warranty. The fake one was a trash, it struck after 5-months running.
I own two of these. A 40mm Chrono Heritage M1963/X - SEA-GULL ST1901 bought directly from Sugess Watch in China and a 40mm limited edition Red Star bronze Seagull 1963 that came from the official Seagull 1963 store in Belgium. The Seagull is a watch that is hard to fault and I‘m quite fond of both of mine but my customer experience with both companies was hardly satisfactory. In sum I was swindled twice. The Sugess was supposed to come with the Swan Neck movement but didn‘t and unfortunately too much time had elapsed before I found out for me to be able to do anything about it. As for the Belgian Seagull 1963, it was only after I had received it that I found out that they do not individually number their limited edition watches (instead all 300 are numbered 1/300) and that it was missing it‘s tag, manual and registration QR code. It was also shipped about two months past it‘s preassigned shipping date. The company in Belgium casually dismissed my concerns and when I asked to return it they informed me that the 14 day return policy had expired. Be very careful who you buy from. The Seagull 1963 company in Belgium seems rotten to the core. I wouldn’t deal with them again if they paid me. BEWARE.
Sea-gull are shooting themselves in the foot by overpricing these and making them limited. If they made these 200 dolars and regular production, they would effectively kill the market for other variants.
They are all probably owned by the same Chinese firms and wouldn't be surprised if they are made in the same factory... so the official may be there to be a high margin cash grab while the rest are there for the average Joe looking for a bargain.
Thanks for the video Jody! For the bottom Chinese text, the unofficial version says "China, Tianjin", while official version says "China" on the top, and "Tianjin watch factory" on the bottom.
Another interesting thing is that if you do a bit of digging around, some Aliexpress stores also list an unofficial version that is advertised to have a modified movement with a gooseneck regulator for about $10 extra - I don't have that version, or know if they are as advertised, but it's something people might want to look into.
Glad someone pointed the text out. I actually think it's significant because Tianjin Watch Factory was the original name of Sea-gull and that original name was used in 1955 when it was founded.
Oh great - now I have to wait for Jody's "Is a gooseneck regulator worth $10" video! ;-)
Oh the irony 😉 That China, the master's of the copycat get ripped off by - the Chinese 😁👍
@@simonrobbins8357 My Seagull 1963 has "Made in China" written on it, but in Traditional Chinese rather than Simplified Chinese (中國製造) rather than (中国制造). I guess it would be accurate if it was trying to look like it was made before China switched to the simplified system.
@@simonrobbins8357 Yeah, I'm from Taiwan so the characters didn't even stand out as being wrong until I saw this video lol
I bought a 38mm official version for $350USD about four years ago. The movement winds smooth and has a quality feel to it.
Wow you are lucky now it's 628 USD!!! I really like the official one but I'm kinda torn on if I should get the official or unofficial
@@johnking9999 Wow, had no idea they cost so much now. On the other hand its a well made watch and the movement seems first class.
Thank you Jody for this video. For a good interpretation it would have been even more explicit to compare two versions with the same acrylic glass. For information, since 2 or 3 years the unofficial versions have a transparent back with a larger opening than the one in the video. It would also have been nice to open the official version to see if the finish is better as claimed by some people. I think that the official version benefits from selected movements, the standard movements being intended for the other suppliers but nothing imho that justifies such a huge price difference.
The fake 1963 does not use a Seagull movement, the quality is very poor, and it supports the genuine 1963.
@@zhu8404 thats completely false bro
I've scoured reddit threads and apparently people are saying that the unofficial version starts to show signs of weakness after a few months or years (1 or 2 years, depending on how often the watch is worn), with some saying that the watch can't be a daily driver. Apparently, on the official version, the movements are checked and inspected, so they don't suffer from the weaknesses of the unofficial version, and even though it's more expensive, that's why I'm leaning towards buying the official version. I want to keep this watch for years, even my whole life, so I go for quality! (I lived in China for years, so there's also a sentimental value for me in having this Chinese watch).
I also went for the official one. . . Too many variants out there for the unofficial ones, I was at a loss which to pick. . .
I have the unofficial version and prefer it. The display case back and sapphire crystal are improvements that I like. I am not a fan of cloth straps so I put a shark mesh band on mine. The polished mesh works well with the all polished case.
What’s the best place to purchase this watch?
I remember talking about this 3 years ago in a previous video. Nice research.
One more thing I'd like to add, the movement on the genuine is signed by Seagull and visibly has more quality than the 3rd party one. Btw got mine on 11/11/2019 at the great price of 250 euros (sales + coupons)
I heard the story that both are actually official. A manufacturer in HK got the official authorization from seagull to produce the ‘unofficial’ one.
Actually that comes up in Jody’s previous video. I always thought Sea-Gull was protesting too much on that basis alone.
Thanks for this video, I’ve often wondered the exact same thing as I went to buy my 63 two months ago. I bought through Red Star the apparent non-official, 42mm, sapphire, display case back, and I love it, took off the green nato and put on the leather strap. It’s one of the few mechanicals I bought that I’ve never opened to regulate, it keeps crazy excellent time.
i went red star as well, really wanted the display case back and a factory made watch. Though i really like the smaller bezel on the orginal now that i see it, the bezel reflects a bit of light and toneing that down through a smaller bezel could be really nice.
@@eric21881The larger bezel is only on the unofficial one on this video because he chose the sapphire crystal. You can have the unofficial one identical to the official with the exception of the face printing.
Another enjoyable video where you could get away buying the imitation as just as nice. Great review Jody!
The fake 1963 does not use a Seagull movement, the quality is very poor, and it supports the genuine 1963.
I just picked up the “unofficial” version and really like the display back & that’s what caused me to go “unofficial”. Cheaper with more features & still the same movement, case and dial? Yea. It was a no brainer for picking up another fun military inspired timepiece
Jody I am really glad it was you who made this video as it’s been screaming out to be made for years. You have the cams conclusion as me and many others. It’s far too expensive for what it is and for the old tech. The Sea-Gull movements tend to have a swan neck regulator which for tinkerers like me is useful but for an owner who can’t even see it under the case back it’s pointless.
I have the cheaper version and love it for what it is. A very affordable double register mechanical chronograph. Brilliant to learn how the movement works on too.
You would have to be a bit mad to buy the same watch for $600 especially when the cheap one also comes on sapphire if you want it.
For the price they want there are far better watches out there so like you say you would have to REALLY want one.
Good video mate.
They are a great watch but I will be sticking to the cheaper option.
But was great seeing them side by side
This is the dilemma I run into in everything that I collect. Fragrance, sneakers, etc.
If someone is making the exact same thing for a quarter of the price, it makes it difficult to buy the 'official' product.
If it can be sold at a quarter of the price it means that the original has artificially inflated the price due to the brand name, so I don't really feel bad buying the dupe/clone/rep.
If the price is within 20-30% then sure I don't mind supporting the original company, and celebrating their IP, but when companies wildly inflate the price because they are dining out on reputation and brand name I feel less likely to do so.
Of course, often the cheaper version is much lower quality
I'm not buying the "official" label. We've been over this before Jody, and I reckon that Sea-Gull have a very tenuous at best claim to being official, they had not made this watch for decades until an ex-employee set up a deal to revive it in Hong Kong and Sea-Gull would supply movements. I reckon Sea-Gull got greedy.
Great video Jody, I love my little 1963 with acrylic crystal and view it for what it is - a Chinese watch where every second batch has differences, usually in the sub-dial hands
I just bought the 38mm unofficial version. Beautiful watch. I love wearing it. I don't care what others think.
That's the way to go 👌
Love my unauthentic seagull.
Think if I was so inclined (I am not) I would get the official one. It would make you feel like a Prince knowing everyone else is rocking a unauthentic knockoff and you have the real deal.
Great video. The movement is regardless excellent. The back story is fascinating, with Seagull buying the design and equipment to make it, and add more jewels.
I was wondering the same thing while browsing on Aliexpress. Thanks for clarifying!
Picked up a 1963 a few months ago thinking it had an acrylic crystal. Turned out it had a double dome AR crystal and in 40mm
My 1963 came from Seakoss. The NATO strap it came with was much nicer, and it came with a brown leather that's nice too. That brown leather strap dresses it up way nicer than I expected.
I have a Sugess 40mm. Was inexpensive. I love it, it's great
Just received a 40mm one with a cleaner looking dial that was bought from Sugess Watch. Love it. Just wish the nato straps are of better quality to match the watch.
The extra line of text on the official watch is just two characters but I think it looks better with the single line. It's a minor thing really but all of the other differences are pretty trivial as well. It would never enter my mind to pay that much for one of these. Great video!
First line means China = Zhōngguó (as in made in China). The second line means Tianjin Watch factory = Tiānjin shōubiăo chăng (where the original Sea-Gull was made back in 1963)
Out of the two I'd go for the unofficial version but given the choice I'd get neither of them and buy the 'Hong Kong Ed' version instead.
I have the unofficial but it has the signed crown and slimmer bezel and I love it.
id opt for the aliexpress $150 option 🎉😂
Word is that the expensive version has such things as actual quality control with their movements. What kept me from buying one of the cheaper ones was the number of posts of people complaining about their watch failing within the first year of ownership. Right now, I would go for a quartz (!) version of the watch. The cheapest option, also made in china with the iconic look but reliable.
mine has two lines of text and a display caseback 🙂 Clearly unofficial, but still a stunning little watch
The unofficial one is much better the displayed case back alone made my mind up! Its pointless with a closed display case
The official store now also has a sapphire crystal and display case version
Definitely the display back is a huge advantage. That movement is the most beautiful in the budget space
the replica does say "复刻版“ or "replica version" on the case back.
Great video Jody, I own the unofficial version and I am happy with it, no need to spend de extra money, i am waiting on a moonswatch to arrive.
This video is a subtle commentary of reps vs. genuine pricing. Looking at you Rolex.
I have wondered about QC differences between the two. I have two unofficial ones and both required work within 6 months which I was able to do myself. (One was a loose screw preventing chrono running and the other was the chrono reset in the movement broke and I bought a spare movement for parts to fix it).
I just pulled the trigger on the Sugess unofficial Segull 1963! It’s far better than the original as it has a sapphire crystal and a see through case back with the gold plated swan neck adjuster. There is zero reason to buy the official one for 3x the price when the movement infact is from the Tianjin factory so essentially both are same!
Me! I just prefer the Acrylic, on the cheaper watch. It just seems more period authentic. Although sounds like it can be bought cheap,too?
The cheaper one is sapphire!
Great video mate, very useful, thanks! There is also a manufacturer in Hong Kong who makes different and very interesting versions of these watches, they are called HKED, it would be cool if you could review one of their pieces.
If it were to have official versions, we would all have omega's, rolex's and other original high-end watches... but it is not like that... thanks for clarifying the doubts of millions of people my dear, greetings from Caracas, Venezuela
A limited edition of any published work, product, artwork, etc usually has a higher price tag.
As well as price, consider:
* customer service
* maintenance
* authenticity
* accuracy
* reliability
* durability
* longevity.
To be fair, sea gull is a pretty great watch company imo.
I finally get one.
Sapphire 40mm with a swan/goose neck regulator.
Wow...just wow. I cannot say anything else to express myself. What an astonishing piece of watchmaking.
This is an important video. Thanks for making it!
I need an acrylic crystal and it's a Red Star from Marc at Long Island and believe he sells the Red Star brand, my hope is the domed crystal is the same on both watches and i can find a new piece!
Firstly, the QR codes can be authentificated via WeChat - not the internet. -
The Movement on the original Version is much better decorated and very nicely engraved with chinese scripture. The movement quality is also better.
I bought my original one for $280 (also from the Store you got yours), so - its absolutely true - the price went up by a great margin.
Fortunately, back then I bought over 30 original Sea-Gull Watches (mostly from that Store) - the new price for them hast often doubled or tripled so i am not unhappy :D
The prices of all watches have gone up in the past few years. I've got two Swiss watches that have gone up 25% in price since purchase 3 years ago, so this is nothing out of the norm. That being said, I've got the official Sea-Gull 22 ZUAN w/sapphire crystal...love it.
I have the unofficial version. I bought through your link, last year. The one thing i don't like, is the lume on hands. Tinny, unnecessary, and brake the stetics on my opinion.
I bought the Sea-gull when I was living in China around 2018 for around $250. Love it.
Jody, I have one that I bought for £20 on AliExpress! My one looks identical to both these two watches. However my one is quartz and the dimensions seem a bit bigger
Thank you. This had been my on-going question until someone finally answered it for me on reddit.
Main difference is the QC.
Just ordered my first Brent!!! AM132-RD… no reviews online that I can see.
For the unofficial one, the display case back says"Seagull "Reissue of the First Aviation Watch of the Chinese Air Force"
Hey Jody, have you ever taken a look at the $25 quartz version of the seagull 1963? Great video as always. Greetings, Heiko
It seems like a scam
@@SleepyRainRealm you mean the quartz is a scam?
@@HeikosGarage I mean, they could be fake, I've seen them on Ali and for the pictures of the reviews they have poor quality compared to this watch
@@SleepyRainRealm I bet you are right. Watching Jody constantly makes me want to buy more watches. Sometimes I throw in a quartz to keep the prize down.
I got a Red Star SG1963 38mm with swan neck & sapphire dome and OG sub-dial hands from the Seakoss store on AliExpress. Love the watch, it looks great. HOWEVER: It needs regulated, badly. It looses MINUTES per hour. Sometimes the seconds sub-dial stops ticking. The red timer hand gets stuck (not often, but once is enough & it has occurred more than once) when passing 12:00. Since it doesn't keep proper time and cannot be relied upon, I never wear the little beauty. It's a really nice looking & complex paperweight.
I've looked into a servicing and now my cheap auto chrono would be costing less to replace outright (😐) than to have serviced (???) Arrrghh
Prbly should take advantage of the 11.11 sale to get right with this. 🤔
Edit: Upon reading the statements above, it begs the question "why"? I obviously got a lemon, but would a same person take the risk of getting burned 2x or just take the 'L' and move on? I've already spent the replacement costs on some 11.11 Pagani PD1701 Speedy clomages... 🤷🏼 Watch ppl are not sane
Been looking on ebay and they have them for £180, they look amazing, thanks for the video about them
Proud to say I just purchased my first Seagull I will get it appraised @ 4:05 he mentioned he did not know what the text meant; well using snap pic of my own and google translate top text is CHINA or zhong guo and bottom text is Tianjin watch factory.. my model is the Panda which doesnt look the same the numbers are Bars not Numerical Digits not sure if that makes a difference ... the back cover also is engraved with CLASSIC EDITION .... any one that as information please reply back to help the rest of the community ... this is my first investment watch and turns out its muddy waters to start but I am not detoured from future purchases I will only buy watches I am willing to wear so even if its a waste of money its really not because I still have a watch style I enjoy. Congrats to all whom start and good luck to you all.
The movements that Sea-Gull uses for the watches they produce themselves are top-grade movements, whereas the third-party manufacturers have to settle with whatever quality they can get their hands on.
Definitely not true, seagull produces a ton of these movements, it is possible they have a bit tighter margins for their own, but at only 5500 units there are still so much movements left that this wouldn't make a difference. I have a strela reproduction which uses the st19 movement and it runs +0+1. Also unofficial movements can have swan neck regulators which makes it very easy to regulate
@@Louiscare I really doubt, Sea-Gull used that chronograph movement solely for this 1963 model. Also, it doesn't mean that the top grade movements are unavailable for purchase for third party manufacturers. I'm only stating, that Sea-Gull itself uses only their top-grade movements for their watches.
@@Aleister82 of course they don't, but why would they not advertise that their movements are of better accuracy ?
@@Aleister82 I totally agree with you, judging by the plethora of posts about non-officials, lots of people have reliability problems with their watches. As you say, the official version of Seagull uses the best movements, top quality, whereas it's not uncommon for non-official watches to break after 8 months, a year or even two years. People call it a disposable 'watch', and in Europe you can get it for between 250 and 350 euros, depending on where the unofficial one comes from. Personally, I don't feel like throwing away 300-400 euros, so that's why I'm going for the official version. It's more expensive, but it'll last.
As a big fan of chinese history and a studen studying chinese, i will be getting this watch probobly the cheaper one when i get my next paycheck.
FYI, the text on A's dial is "China TianJin wristwatch factory", and that on B's dial is "China Tianjin". No doubt that tracks with what we know about these wristwatches.
This watch is a replica of the first watch in outer space, Russian Strela. The design is almost identical and it uses Russian Poljot 3133 Caliber, Russians bought the machines for manufacturing the caliber in the 70s
Lol, Proud to be in the unofficial camp!
😉👍🇬🇧
Bought an unofficial one recently and I'm very happy. The sapphire is worth it even though the bezel is a bit chunky and the display back is nice. A good watch.
You should have known that any unofficial/fake version is adding value to the true version. The more the fake models are, the better for the official one.
Kinda confirms my suspicions
4:45 watch A has a badly driven chronograph that has to be more carrefuly regulared on the engaging wheel
=> look at the chronograph hand : no fluid movement but some jumps ...
Based on reviews on this trusted watch channel, I have a champagne and Orange Sugess ‘Top Time’ homage with the ST1901 that is sold under the ‘1963’ style and it’s one of my favorite watches to look at. I purchased 2 from the Sugess store and the other one uses an automatic movement with an intricate silver dial and blued hands that is almost too nice to wear. I like these because they have a vintage vibe about them and are different from the ‘diver’ style that comprises most of my collection. Thanks to this channel, I have broadened my tastes and purchased a few pieces that I would not have otherwise considered. I’m not quite ready for a Vostok yet but maybe someday, until then I’ll be watching for Just one more watch that I can’t live without! 😂
Thanks for watching Ricky Bobby! Engage slingshot!
Here was me just last night, trawling AliEx & wondering about this difference. Nice one Jody.
One of the few Ali watches I want. Anyone recommend an Ali store to buy from. I hate the endless search with all the horrible or non existent descriptions. Thanks for the video man.
For the record, the text reads "China, Tianjin Watch Factory" on the original while the imitation says "Tianjin China".
There is another advantage to the official one - the dial text:
- official watch says: China, Tianjin Watch Factory (which is the official name of the 1955 founded watch company).
- unofficial watch says just: China, Tianjin.
That in itself is worth a bit more credit as it's historically more accurate.
The official non-sale price is starting to get close to Swiss chrono prices, like it's over half the price of some of Hamilton's offerings. I'd be hard pressed to pick an octogenarian movement over that at that price. But the cheap one is still a great buy.
If were talking Chinese watches, isn't the unofficial version the authentic version by definition?
Amazon U.S. has the Sea-Gull at $711 and the Sugess at $269. There's also a Mukemao for $189 (on sale). I like everything about these watches except for the thickness (13.5mm) and the weight.
I do like the Sea-Gull Chronograph,its odd i feel hard pressed to buy the Official Sea-Gull because of the price,however I am less bothered the price of the Baltic Bicompax.They both use the Sea-Gull ST1901 movement.Maybe I will get all 3.
Great lesson and always fun learning. Thanks for sharing Mate!
I think they are making both , but saw a potencial gain puting out other version and depreciate the old one
I have several Chinese Specials, and homages, but dislike this thing. I instantly flash on Chinese New Year when I see one.
I was literally searching for a video like this yesterday. Was not able to find any on youtube. Thank you.
the main difference is that seagull models are made in a completely different factory to the cheaper alternatives, the only step up in quality you're going to get is the finishing on the case and the dial, the movement remains the same.
the disparity in price is because seagull is looking to position themselves as a luxury chinese brand and carving out their own niche among the european giants in watchmaking. i think the high price is a good thing for watchmaking and the timekeeping culture as a whole, so eventually (way down the line) chinese timepieces can be seen by the wider and general populace as something desirable and shed away the reputation of being cheaply made knock offs that will break in 2 days.
as a side note, seagull has a good track record with honoring their warranties and with aliexpress, your mileage will vary (that being said, my experience with both have been great)
I got a $25 seagull 1963 with a quartz movement
Never been a big fan of this watch because of the Chi Com star but i can appreciate its historical significance for the Chinese.
As far as I recall the original reasons to get the 1963 (either version) was always 1) for the ST19 movement (at the time the only inexpensive watch with an automatic chronograph) and 2) the Vostok kitsch of the Chinese Airforce on the dial.
Today I would go with the Sugess branded ST19 movement Chronograph watch ... imo looks better/ more clean/ more traditional/ less kitschy than the 1963 with the same movement in a display caseback.
Are you talking about this watch: "Sugess Seagull Movement 1963 Automatic Mechanical Watch For Men 40mm Fashion Pilot Self Wind Sapphire Men Watch Man Luxury Date?"
I own the unofficial one which was about £100 when I bought it. I wouldn't dream of paying the inflated price for the official one. My only complaint is the crown is rather small and makes winding a bit awkward.
Every one of those ST19s winds differently as well! Some quiet, some loud etc etc. Ha!
Not a big fan of "the look", but always liked the value in the mechanical chrono movement. So, I went with a Hemel Airfoil instead! Same wonderful movement, but in an honestly good looking package.
The ones with the clothes case bags that are supposed to be official go for less on the secondary market because no one wants that one
I'd probably pay, at most, $30 or so more for the official watch, all else being equal.
One question I don't think has been addressed: is there a warranty or support difference? That might sway it.
Honestly I love the look of the unofficial one's sapphire and bezel and I"m a sucker for case backs, so I'd save the extra $400 and get what I wanted more in the first place.
Thanks, Jody :D
Well both watches have to go back to China, but I think there would be more value in the 2 year warranty of the original. I should have mentioned that, you are right!
@@JustOneMoreWatch I never see a review from Sugess in this channel. I think they have great offering that might be good value for you to highlight. Great vid, great content as usual.🙏
Chinese warranty? lol
Interesting video. I have the unofficial one. But I think I prefer the official one
I really want a sea-gull version, but the price has slowly increased from around 400usd to over 600usd at times. Just can't justify the cost.
The original reissue seagull 1963 watch has tailed dial hand on the right subdial only. The left sub dial has a tailless dial.
I can't bring myself to get one because of that red star and it's implications, yet I have zero problem getting a flieger. I'm not saying it makes sense, but that's the only reason I haven't bought one. Maybe one day I'll get over it. 😎
Same for me. Buying one of these watches is like endorsing active and horrendous human rights abuse. Like, it's happening right now.
@@TheMainCore lmao
I feel like you could’ve changed the names from Sea-gull to Seiko and Seagull to San Martin and it would be the same argument we have about most Ali express watches.
I'm not a massive fan of anything when it comes to luxury products in life hahaaa. Specially watches, yes I'm a watch enthusiast BUT I have never obsessed over any of them, I buy what I can obviously.
A mecaquartz version with better waterproofing would probably do well.
Hi Jody! Year ago I had conversations with man from channel "Sea Gull 1963" and he wrote me: "Tomas from the Red Star is the original designer from this homage (!!) watch in the yearly 2000's when he was working for Tianjin Watch Group Honkong (back then Sea Gull was split up in different sisters companis over different locations). All watches you see on line use genius Sea Gull ST 1901 movements from Tianjin but since Tomas never registered intellectual propertys of this watch design wich has based on the watch 1963 but looks completely different, in theory everyone could produce this piece :) The discussion between fake and real is s funny one since Red Star is the original producer of this homage watch but use a Sea Gull movement!" So, I hope this information will be useful to you!
Bless Google Translate, the Chinese text at the bottom essentially says the same thing. "A" says China, Tianjin Watch Factory. "B" says Tianjin, China