I went through about 1 year of listening to true crime podcasts all the time. I didn’t really think critically about it until I met someone who, when I became closer to her, told me about a murder in her immediate family. As she was telling me about it, I realised that I had listened to a podcast episode and a UA-cam video about it. My first reaction was ‘omg I know this murder!’. Then… ‘omg I know this murder… and this is my reaction… shit.’ I realised that I was being entertained by other people’s trauma. I don’t judge people for enjoying true crime, but my reaction genuinely made me realise my unhealthy relationship with it and how I was disassociating the videos/podcasts with real life people/victims.
"Freud makes me think, even if he doesn't make me nod" you just described my whole university experience with a single sentence hahaha (bachelor's of psychology btw)
I think people get drawn to true crime during stressful times because it gives you something to focus your anxious feelings on. It's much easier to live with the constant sense of impending doom if you can explain, process and feel that feeling in a way that feels safe and contained. In real life you don't get the whole story and your always in the middle of stuff happening. And you can also tell yourself 'at least something that bad didn't happen to me' and feel like you now know what to do if it ever does happen to you
Historically, some true crime became some of our best known fairy tales: Hansel and Gretel and the great plagues of Europe in the 1300s where many parents abandoned their children in churches and there were more than just rumours of cannibalism; Red Riding Hood and Peter Stumpp, a man in the 1500s who dressed as a wolf and killed many children; wife-killer Bluebeard is also linked to Conomor and Henri Désiré Landru, two serial killers etc. These horrible true stories became even more story-fied and were often used as warnings, and they've endured across the centuries. And as Kiki Smith, a folklorist, said about fairy tales in general (and their link to horrific things): "You know, life is scary. And a lot of this is about exorcizing, or physically manifesting your fear. ...I think a lot of it is about making the scariest things you can think of and making them physically overt, outside of yourself, like a protection racket." xx
The rabbit holes we fall down. I'm a trying-to-be-writer myself and your comment interested me hugely. Mega fairy tale nerd over here. There are a few videos on your channel that I will be jumping into after I've watched this one. I've done fairy tale research myself but mainly specific to what I've written, and I've never come across these theories. Two of my worlds collide...
I was 16, walking to college on a rainy British day, and a car pulled up and two guys tried to get me in their car. I'm not gonna lie, the PTSD is real. I was able to hit and kick my way out as a car drove past and spooked them and ran to a ladies house to wait for police. When I look back, I wish I had done more. I wish I had screamed, I wish I knew to scratch to get dna under my nails. I watch true crime because I want to know more of how to protect myself and see the red flags.
I just wanted to come and say that how you responded was completely valid. You didn’t know those things at the time and even if you did, it’s so unlikely you would have remembered to do this! The fight/flight/freeze/reaction is automatic, our body goes into the reaction it thinks will be most likely to keep us safe. Screaming - not a common survival reaction as we want to keep oxygen in our body to fuel our fight/flight response. In addition, with fighting, some people will go into this mode, but it’s generally automatic. Some people will fight, others will focus on fleeing and others will freeze or go along with the attacker - all are valid survival reactions that work in different situations. If you’d responded differently, you may not have been able to get away. If you’d screamed they may have knocked you out. How you responded may have been the best for the situation. It was beyond your control! Even soldiers cannot control the fight/flight reaction completely. Practice and rehearsing situations with your body can help a bit - that’s why martial arts can be helpful. But only when it becomes so automatic and you’ve done it in a range of places. I hope this helps, that’s such a horrible thing to experience x
@@charleylouise3900 after years of therapy, no one has ever made me feel validated for how I handled it. This honestly means more to me than you may ever realise. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, thank you 💗
@@zoebird5177 I’m glad it helped. I work with trauma survivors and I’ve found knowing this helpful for my own trauma. I’m so sorry to hear it wasn’t validated until now. I hope it helps you heal x
Every video of yours leaves me more enamoured by your skills than the next. You are bloody marvellous at this, and never fail to make me consider new things or articulate my scattered thoughts in the most sensible way. I wish more people got the pleasure of seeing your content!!!
I read somewhere that people enjoy crime fiction because it’s a problem that is solved and the guilty have consequences and the innocent live happily ever after so it satisfies a need for order in chaos xx
Khadija Mbowe did a video essay a while back about 'missing white woman syndrome' that talks about the influence the victims gender and racialization has on reporting and investigation of crimes.
see, i knew you were going to have fascinating thoughts on twilight. i also really liked it when i was younger and now have difficulty understanding how i ever could have been pro a relationship like that. but as someone who was deeply afraid of sexual violence, not just through media but also personal experience... you really might have discovered something here
I am extremely critical of the true crime I consume and have almost stopped consuming it altogether. I just can't get rid of the thought that these are people talking about the most horrific things nonchalantly (sometimes while doing their make up) and earning money (and clout) from it... I can't help but think of a family member or friend of the victim stumbling across a video. Especially when sometimes the info is just wrong or incomplete (whether because of insufficient research or details not being released by the police) and they then speculate about how someone in the family could have done it based on that incomplete information. Just imagine you lose someone close to you in such a violent manner and then the internet is convinced you did it and on top of grieving you now have to deal with that insane situation. Imagine you're Madeline McCann's parents and the entire internet is convinced you are at fault for you child's death. I am not defending them or accusing them but just imagine what that must be like if they didn't do it. It's just not okay. I would never judge anyone who watches/listens to true crime. It is addictive but I also am very wary of it, especially with unsolved cases, esp. when they're (somewhat) recent and when it seems really sensationalized (shocked thumbnail, etc.). I do still listen to true crime content but I make sure it's presented at least somewhat ethicallly, like I listen to one podcast that even changes names sometimes or ones that let victims/friends/family/those close to the investigation speak (like Bed of Lies or Bear Brook). Or just those that are historical and/or solved. Also for a very fun take on true crime, i loved the show American Vandal. It's sort of like a true crime mockumentary and it seems quite juvenile at first but makes a great point on the ethics of true crime!
Your comment made me think of the Vanishing at the Cecil Hotel Netflix series where the Internet harangued a man who happened to dress and act alternatively because the Internet believed he'd murdered the poor missing girl. I thought the inclusion of his story was really important and really made me think more about the speculation around unsolved cases and the harm it can do!
@@emma.greenwood exactly! I don't know much about that case specifically but often people that are suspected because they're seen as "weird", which unfortunately more often than not translates to neurodivergent or just alternative lifestyles
I have been a consumer of true crime since I was a child. I remember picking up a book from my parents' shelves that was about unsolved murders in my country and reading it in secret. I was maybe 9. I've kept asking myself, as long as I can remember, why do I go back to these stories again and again. See, I was sexually assaulted by a stranger while on my way home from school at 7 years old. I'm not, and never have, consumed true crime "from the outside". The unthinkable has already happened, yet here I am, asking the same questions as the rest of you. I don't think there are any easy answers for any of us. What I have learned though, is that nothing makes me feel as unsafe in this world as obsessively consuming true crime does. I have now mostly given it up, as it makes me feel like behind every corner there is someone waiting to harm me. And I've been around that corner, I've looked a man in the eye who wanted and did harm me, I know anything can and will happen. But that knowledge never left me to believe that the world is inherently bad, obsessive amounts of true crime did! So I guess my point is, to anyone who enjoys true crime, that it's fine, just please remember to take healthy breaks in between. Loved this video and the ending was everything. Despite what happened to me, I feel lucky; lucky that I survived, that in all the other ways I grew up in a world and in a family that made me feel like kindness is normal and that violence, even when it occured, was only an outlier, a blib.
That’s sad because I’m fascinated by people who are awed by horrific topics like serial killers. I, like many before me, grew up in a traumatizing environment. I’ve known people are broken and horrid and that’s what makes them act like so. There is no fascination. There’s just sadness and pain and death. How lucky to have the luxury to be fascinated. Great video Leena. I watched the whole thing as usual. Super well thought out.
I’m so grateful you’ve made this video - I feel like so much media attention on woman’s obsession with true crime has really come from a place of trying to shame them and not understand them
I actually edited my friend's thesis on My Favorite Murder + nonbinary people's interest into the subject of true crime podcasts! It was an incredible thesis, so glad some research is out there ☺️
Even tho I’m not a big fan of the twilight saga in general, that moment when Edward scared off those bunch of hooligans was the exact moment that I went, “yeah you know what, why not. We like him now.” It’s so sad and not fair that women have to pay extra mind to assaults of that nature. And it’s so sad that I knew exactly what you meant and felt when you were talking about men harassing women vocally even assault women physically out in the streets. Ugh.
I listened to true crime podcasts a lot but then I had a lecture about MMIW and femicide in the Americas which shifted my perspective. it's how you said that most of the cases that are covered in the true crime podcasts center on white women/girls (and often middle-class ) but they won't cover the hundreds of women (and other genders/identities) of colour. It's true that these cases often don't have a "satisfying" conclusion but if you take into consideration the last point you made about kind normality with highlighted points of awfulness in our lives, it's striking how in Indigenous/Black/minority communities these violences are so common that the cases that "stand out" are rare. There are just too many of them. And that goes hand in hand with the 'fictionalization' of true crime that people detach it from reality like fiction stories, e.g. disregarding the reality of the victims and their families, which can result in people invading those people's spaces over a crime they somehow feel involved in now because they listened to a podcast about it. I don't have a problem with true crime as such rather I think that the communities that group up/fans of podcasts etc. can grow pretty problematic in how they view and discuss the crimes and how they operate (for example the infamous t-shirts with real serial killers on them, etc.) And I'm not trying to bash anyone for listening or watching stuff about true crime, just giving my 2 cents to the discussion. Definitely a very complicated topic on so many levels.
Yeah like if true crime focussed on the genocide of Indigenous women here in Canada (for one there wouldn't be a satisfying conclusion because no one in power gives a shit) then the government might actually be pressured to call it a genocide and investigate like they promised to do in their 2015(!!!) election platform. Same with the genocide of trans women globally. But with those stories you're also not unpacking the mind of a single person so much as a system of enabling, hatred, and prejudice. Though serial killing does manage to address misogyny so why not these other issues? Most of the time though to be fair it doesn't actually address the systemic enabling of misogynist crimes and stresses the individualism of the crimes when that's so clearly not the main problem.
@@asterismos5451 you hit the nail of the head with that individualism x systematic sentence! One can distance from a deranged individual but hardly from the system they live in.
this reminds of watching Strong Woman Do Bong Soon and how it was the first time i never had to worry about the female character being bested by a man physically since she is meant to be the strongest human on earth, like i didn't even realise that that was a fear that was this prevelant in the back of my mind and yet
As a long term youtube addict, i definitely see correlations between my obsessions and how shit my mental health and procrastination tendencies are at that time.
Another note on Ted Bundy is that he wasn't just semetirical and the cops incopotent but he straight up depended on the fact that his victems and AFAB people in general are kind and helpful and he frequently pretended to be hurt/ingured to get them to his car. Like he was straight up abusing the natural instinct for colaboration
Okay I'm at 9.40 after the Edward discussion I HAD THIS EXACT SAME CONVERSATION WITH THE TWO LOVES OF MY LIFE. the ex didn't understand what was so sexy about Edward and I was like he is the ultimate protector (as is Jacob). I then had to explain that women are often the victim of crime, we're brought up being told that we're probably going to have some horrible sticky end we didn't deserve. He didn't believe me, even when I brought up stats and then he straight up gaslighted me. Dick. He also failed to comprehend why it was terrifying having a strange homeless man sleeping in our doorway and blocking the only exit to our alleyway, which is well shielded from the street. Like Unknown Man is women's boogeyman and he just didn't understand that primal fear of ANYTHING could happen. It's unlikely but uaknow, it's a bad 10% to gamble on. My current squeeze had a lightbulb moment when I explained Edward to him. I'm now going to use it as a litmus test for blokes bc it really does show where a man's ability to understand how it feels to be female in a horrible world.
omg that is SO INTERESTING!!!! A new litmus test indeed. I agree, it's not that I'm defending my previous love of Edward, but the idea that it's not UNDERSTANDABLE or doesn't MAKE SENSE irks me. Love that you're using this as a meter stick now, fascinating.
Honesty, I had the same type of conversation with a guy I was seeing. and with multiple guys, As I was explaining i have been in those sticky, non-consensual, unfortunate situations, and bear in mind I wasn’t even trying to get easy sympathy ( we never are, contrary to what some men might believe ), I would get very fast but short response almost like a reflex “oh Wow that’s sad. I knew it happened to someone I know” yet it was just…truly lacking in sympathy or real understanding. One of them even offered me sex right after saying that. I know, shocking. I only told him my experiences only to trying to reject his advances in the first place! Saying it happens to some women you know, does not mean you truly understand. Some ppl say it purely to get it out of the way, so that they themselves don’t get seen as “the bad guy”. It was eye opening. When my instinct told me those guy didn’t truly understand, they are usually right. Somewhere down the line, those relationships all broke down because our lives were too different, and they did not make the effort, or they lack empathy, PLUS active learning to at least meet me, and prob many other women they have & will date, in the middle.
A few years ago I lived in a house with 3 male housemates, all good guys. One morning a few guys walked up onto our porch and stole our outdoor furniture. We caught it on camera so I didn't know about it until it was too late, but I was the only one home at the time. A few days later, someone broke into all our cars one night. After that I was nervous to be home alone. I told my housemates this and they didn't get it. They laughed when I said it was because if someone broke in and it was just me, worse things than our shit being stolen might happen. This had not occurred to them, apparently.
I'll be honest I didn't immediately watch this because I was expecting it to be milquetoast takes about morbid curiosity, but this had some really refreshing thoughts in them. I'm sorry I ever underestimated you, Leena. Thank you :D
I used to watch loads of ‘true crime UA-camrs’ but now I’m a lot more selective and when some of them use posey pictures of themselves in the thumbnail, or do their makeup when talking about a case, idk I feel like if that was my loved one they were talking about I would feel really odd about it, I think it’s different when it’s a missing person case as spreading awareness could help with leads but when it’s a solved case it’s like what is this video adding? Other than just light entertainment? Also in regards to your comment about the McCann case/white victims I would definitely recommend looking up Nils Christie’s ‘ideal victim’ theory which pretty much fits exactly that! Another amazing video as always Leena! 👏🏼 x
16:30 " absolve us from . . . The guilt of even thinking about it in the first place." Yeah, I was raised Catholic, and I'm much healthier now that I know it's what you do with your thoughts and feelings that's important. You're not evil for feeling something, or thinking something. Thoughts and feelings are clues, information about what's going on, and then those can influence our decisions, how we treat ourselves and others, but a thought or feeling is just a thought or feeling, not an action, and not inherently good or evil. Fabulous video, btw! Scariest setting so far - I'm still watching - is the isolated cabin-esque with the lace sheers. *Shiver EDIT: LOL, Then you say you hear footsteps outside the shed. Even spookier. 😁👍 But I have three big dogs with me today, so feeling pretty safe. 🥰🐾🐕
Here's an example I Iearnt at uni that helped me consider the oversimplification that 'some people who are inherently bad'... Saïd and Chérif Kouachi committed the Charlie Hebdo attack in France: they didn't know their father, their mother prostituted herself to try to make ends meet before killing herself because of the financial struggle. At this time they lived in a building known for being frequented by pedophiles... When you consider all that trauma, it's much easier to understand how they turned to crime, seeking vengeance against a society that failed them
that's actually relatively 'common' if that's the right word, amongst people who commit horrible crimes. A lot of them were abused and grew up in horrible circumstances and never got help. That's not to say that if that happens to you, you grow up to be a serial killer, but a lot of people who are (serial) killers or even sex offenders have that kind of 'background'. It's not an excuse and obviously doesn't help victims or their friends & family but it is something to consider. Very very few people are just born as full on sociopaths with an urge to kill. Again, not an excuse, doesn't make it okay, but just generally, we need to remember that most people aren't just evil for no reason
Super interesting video Leena. I go through periods of watching true crime, although when I had a traumatic family bereavement (not due to crime) it suddenly felt too real. I think for me it serves to equally inform and horrify me as to the depths of human nature and what is potentially inside all of us. And I think what I didn't understand that closes the circle for me is much of what has been discussed in the comments - it's a contained trauma, something to be dissected and put down safely, a closed end. I have at times come across UA-cam comments written from supposed family members/friends of the victims which has really changed how I feel about what format of true crime I consume and the way it is handled!
Oh, I also got obsessed with Bailey in 2020! Every now and then I have an URGE and binge tons of her videos, then I feel bad about it, ignore them... And wait for the next binge.
Watching through all of the videos that didn't immediately appeal to me subject-wise, and the conclusion of this video surprised me as it summarized why I have never been into true crime.
I loved the little bit of the twilight video you snuck in there, I’d be really interested in hearing you talk more about twilight although I appreciate you don’t want to post that particular video
I find this interesting because I've never gone down the true crime route, ever. For me personally, having experienced r*pe, I can't bear to watch true crime. Cannot bear it. We watched that TV show with Gillian Anderson as the police detective and that one as the serial killer and I reaaaalllyyy struggled with it. The only crime novels I read are Sophie Hannah and the absolutely ridiculous and hilarious Agatha Raisin series.
I think a lot of people enjoy true crime in part because in those stories there is a clear distinction between victims and aggressors. Even when cases are complex the horrors are so terrible that nobody would ever suggest that the victim is the one at fault. The cases treated are also the cases where you can explain « evil » which is a lot more reassuring. Moreover, you can empathise with a victim on a deeper level and really detach from the culprit in the context of the murder/agression. All of that can help you process your own traumas in my opinion. ( Sorry if I’m not really clear, English is not my first language )
Loved this one Lena! Your theory of the appeal of Edward hit the nail on the head for me as someone who has had (and continues to have) fears like those. Also a fellow fan of Sarah Marshall and PYW. Bo Burnham in that role shattered my heart! Such perfect casting of the 'nice guys' in all of those roles. EDIT (spoiler for Promising Young Woman): Oh and about the ending of PYW, I heard that the powers that be wanted a happier ending but she stuck with the one she had because she said 1) it was more realistic and 2) that we have so many men in roles where they know they're going to have an 'honourable death for a cause' type ending so why couldn't a woman.
The section where you were talking about the comfort recurved by the public when our fears are assuaged by political leaders made me think of a book I read years ago: Prius or Pickup? How for Simple Questions Explain Americas Great Divide. It’s obviously about US politics, but it’s also about the global slide we’re seeing into authoritarianism, due to the fact that there are people with fixed and fluid mindsets (the researchers figured this out by asking 4 questions in an exit poll at elections). People with more of a fixed mindset do not want nuanced answers, they want someone to point out a culprit and say everything will be ok. And even people with more mixed and fluid mindsets shift to a more fixed mindset when they are afraid (the authors use the example of 9/11 in the US and the fact that many people were scared and ok with finding a source of blame and taking action- war- that they would not have supported otherwise). Anyway, I think you’re onto something and wanted to share the book rec in case you’re interested- thanks for the thought-provoking content!
Absolutely agree with everything you've said in this video. It's a complex one, especially in relation to stress and coping strategies. I, too, tend to watch true crime when stressed, and I've put it down to a lot of things you mentioned: the satisfying narrative structure when the case is solved and justice done; a safe way to be scared and be comforted; catharsis and having a socially acceptable place to feel emotions I struggle to deal with in my personal life (it's easy and acceptable to direct anger or frustration at a killer); familiar stories told in slightly different ways (like watching *yet another* doco about whichever famous serial killer when you know all the details is kind of the same familiarity as rewatching The Office for the tenth time - you know what's coming next in the story, and that's a relief); the privilege of knowing however stressful your life is, you're still so far detached from how bad true crime is. Etc. And as you say, it's a very problematic genre of content. I've become more selective with what I watch but I still feel guilty for finding 'entertainment' in others' pain.
And a safe way to experience extreme emotions too! I feel like Lena actually touched on this in a past video. Like a catharsis of fear and rage is more enjoyable than low level tension of a pandemic, for example.
For me, it's important that I be critical of the true crime that I consume. I find that a lot of shows/documentaries are very heavy-handed with the copaganda and that's just not what I'm looking for. I prefer true crime that focuses on the victims as fully realized people and not just crime scene photos. I'll be Gone in the Dark was a great example of that to me. It was interesting and chilling, but the victims and Michelle McNamara were the focus of the show. So I guess my point is, true crime, like anything, can be done well and respectfully or done badly and it's important to be a critical viewer and think about what I'm watching.
I think for me - a Certified couldn't handle that one spooky episode of Merlin and certainly not doctor who Scardy Cat - true crime is as close as I'll get to watching horror films. Horror films are apparently good cos you experience the scary thing at a safe distance, and the more deeply affected by it, the more emphatic/Highly Sensitive TM you are. Or something along those lines. (Not trying to call myself an empath here I just don't enjoy being scared). So like maybe true crime is an even safer way of experiencing horror? The good podcasts are often talked about in a calm voice, they're respectful to the victims, but also really delve into what made the perpetrator tick. I really love the way Ask A Mortician does these deep dives into tragedies, she did JFK recently and it was excellent. I also really liked Mind Hunters - it's creepy in a skin crawling way that makes you think there's something not quite right about the main character; it's not traditional horror, it's more day to day horror. Watch with a friend for best night sleep... 😬 Maybe it's the lack of jump scares, lack of dramatisation and lack of 'POV you're gonna die' that makes it that much safer? Or perhaps as you said low key taking notes so we don't end up like them? Ngl tho I have to strategically listen to them when I know I'm not going to be alone for a long stretch of time bc I have a vivid imagination and an even more vivid night terror imagination so I'm low key scared I'm going to launch myself downstairs running away from a dream intruder. 😅 I'm also scared of the dark so it's like a triple whammy 🤦♀️
Hearing your perspective is very interesting, as someone with almost opposite taste in media. I love horror movies, but true crime content is often too much for me to handle (unless it's very lighthearted, like Buzzfeed Unsolved or smth similar). A movie might be scary at the time, but ultimately I know that there are no ghosts or demons or other similar creatures; it's not real, so it can't hurt me. On the other hand, true crime content (especially more recent stories) makes me afraid to leave my house 😅
I’ve been into true crime since high school back in the 80s. At the time I was really into learning about psychology, plus my dad loved to read books about serial killers. Human psychology is an interesting topic. You have the serial killers who kill people because they like it and then there are the people who murder for all different kinds of motives. You’re definitely right about people liking to hear cases solved and perpetrators convicted. I get frustrated when I watch a video about an unsolved case. I was so excited when they finally caught the Golden State Killer. A lot of his crimes happened in the area I live in when I was just 7 years old. Back then he was known as the East Area Rapist. My mom was newly separated and scared to death to have the windows open at night. When they arrested him he was living 5 miles away from me. It’s just fascinating stuff. Horrible, but fascinating. I also like to watch shows about forensic science because it’s also fascinating how they catch people.
I've been obsessed with true crime since elementary school. I think for me it's a fascination with human behavior. Also, I grew up in the serial killer capital of the US. I didn't like twilight, so I can't relate in that way. Also, as someone whose been attacked, the thought of being attacked again is terrifying. I agree about true crime being a study so we can save ourselves. Home invasion has always been a fear.
I don't think those shows are just alluring to people whose lives are essentially filled with kindness. If your life feels unsafe, you may find solidarity there. The world is shown as you see it - unsafe and hostile. I think a big point is also that it is contained. Yes, there were bad things happening but you know the episode lasts for x minutes and then it's over. The story is over, the victim is dead and no longer suffering. Wether or not the perpetrator is caught and punished the victim has escaped the horrible situation (often through death) and that in and of itself is reassuring. For a moment suffering is over and you are able to move along, to grief, seek revenge or what ever instead of being stuck in the persistent pain of your own life. It helps you process your own feelings when you feel trapped in a painful inescapable situtaion. Kind of like a placebo closure
This is such a nuanced yet insightful take, and I absolutely love that. When I wasn’t in a good place mentally in life, I watched so much more analytical, toned down, and even melancholic stuff, the other bright and happily ever after stuff just made me physically sick.
This is making me want to watch Mr. Ballen. Which is a terrible idea because I'm a whimp, and I'm going to be home alone all weekend. I swear my brain likes us to be sleep deprived and panicked. Lolol
Oh my God yes, lucky us to think that behavior is unthinkable. Also, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOUR TAKE ON WHY WE LIKED EDWARD. I intensely disliked a lot of the things in Twilight even though I read it with fascination, but the willingness and power to protect were so f hot! Though another big part is just that I like sexual tension in my books 😂
I also had a fear of being kidnapped as a teenager, to the point where I would run away if a car slowed near me, and I would walk as far away from the road as possible when walking on the pavement
Your video was so interesting and came at an incredibly fitting time for me ! I've been really hooked on the Depp v Heard trial for a week now, have watched all the full-length trial live videos available in a matter of days. Since I'm currently recovering from an accident, I don't work or study at the moment, so I really have a lot of time on my hands, so to speak. And two days ago I started a binge of true crime and criminology videos, from commentators dissecting interrogation recordings, to people recounting ''famous'' murder/assault/various crimes stories like the one girl you mentioned. I think that your take on this true crime binges phenomenon, especially at stressfull times, is really something I had never realised. And now that I've listened to your reasoning it all seems so obvious to me, and it resonates very much with me. So that was a long message (from a French viewer, so I'm sorry if some bits are confusing idk), but ultimately I had the urge to really thank you for making this video. It kinda opened my eyes to the fact that, though I personally watch true crime and violence-infused drama real life events for many reasons evoked in your video, I most definitely do so for coping purposes at the moment. And this realisation allows me to reflect on the matter from a new perspective, so thank you Leena ! x
I grew up with serious crimes in my immediate neighbourhood and I have always been drawn to true and fictional crime. And even in my studies I seeked out deviance sociology and criminology. However, during the first lockdown the algorithm served me an obnoxiously long video on an interpretation of Twin Peaks. How Lynch created it in spite of the weekly murder stories where the victim and someone's trauma is consumable entertainment for an hour and then we quickly move onto the next trauma. Also, I think Sarah and Michael discussed this on "You are wrong about". So eversince I try to keep away from true crime (even though i love it) , as it basically commodifies other people's pain.
My husband remains horrified that true crime docus are my ASMR that puts me in a relaxed state. I have watched so many of them, read so many serial killer books etc. what’s also funny is that i too am a scaredy-cat in real life. I hate horror movies and jump scares, i can barely stomach shows like Criminal Minds 😅 what a complex thing it is 😂
I can not wait to see this video as this is me too a tea love you and your amazing channel please stay safe and enjoy your reading love your family friend John xxx
I've thought about this a lot. I've been falling into wikipidia-crime-article rabbit-holes for... Well years. Since high school probably. Maybe late elementary school. Long before it became knows as a "true crime obsession" & before I found out other people did it too. And honestly when I've thought about it, it just seems like one of people's natural reponses to fear? like when you're afraid of spiders (my biggest phobia) - and yet you're weirdly fascintaed/can't look away from like documentaries about them etc. (And then you regret it, cause you're on edge for hours). Fears just have a way of drawing you in. Maybe because it's something in your life that's so intense... And you often can't explain why it's even there - that specific one. And why it has such a grasp on your life. I've been exposed accidentally & way to early, like probably most people to violent scenes in movies. Like SA scenes, kidnapping scenes etc. These things happen in like... PG movies - they're not explicit - but damn, I feel like even the idea of these things - characters subtly talking about them - kind of... traumatized me as a kid. They instilled the fear that there are people out there in the world who would love to kidnap me - a little girl. And I distinctively remember thinking I really wanted to finally be 17-18 years old - no longer the "goal" for like... Pedophile kidnappers. That's how paranoid I became as a 10-12 year old girl. And from that point on these things have always like /been/ there. In the back of my head. I became alert and scared. And giving into it - giving it attention was... Awful in a way. But also weirdly calming? Like I can give attention to the problem that's always there anyway - taking up some part of my brain and releasing stress and bad emotions. And when I gave it my full attention for a while it just... Don't know really. It's like I could stop running from the thoughts and just face them. And move on for a while, until I felt the urge to read these things again. It's probably like being constantly scared of some bad scenario happening - and then it happens, and it's awful... But at least you can stop being scared of it potenially happening - you know? I feel like it may be the same mechanism at work. No one will probably read this (: But it felt weridly relaxing to share! Love the video
lol okay, so this is the first video i've seen of yours and i gotta say (following you now). I hate true crime, it's annoying and I don't really like the theatrics of it. I feel like they dramatize it, but I do enjoy listening to being telling the stories. I like when they're serious about it, like youtubers that don't want to fetishize it or anything. Now to me, I get into fanfictions, and sometimes I just want to read something dark and emotionally draining. it's usually when I need a good cry and to feel sick to my stomach. I'd call it the 'yandere' section of fanfics. where me, the female lead, the lead character I'm reading as, is the obsession of the romantic interest. they either kill to get me, or kill for me, or whatever. I always thought it was a fantasy that was the opposite of what i'd want in real life, but still toeing that line. I want someone to love me so much that they'd kill for me (metaphorically). (but I don't necessarily want to be kidnapped and controlled). I think your kinks or 'dirty' fantasies are just the opposites of what you want in real life. In fantasies and smut I read, it's some objectification and degrading, but in real life I'd punch someone in the throat for even thinking of doing that. I've read stories where women are subjected and abused, by government or lovers, and I'll read it all the way through. But if that every happened to me, if I ever found myself in a world like that, i'd die before I'd ever let someone make me a slave. It's like experiencing horrible things, but in a safe place that you control and can stop at any time. Like watching horror movies to feel scared but for the rush and immediate notion you are safe. (at least in the fictional aspect of things). (i think true crime makes it seem too much like a 'story' instead of 'this is a true thing that happened' and some people can't separate fantasy from reality.)
My true crime phase consisted of BuzzFeed unsolved and Wikipedia lists of people who disappeared mysteriously. I loved the intrigue, the obsessional nature of theorists and researchers, and trying to put a plug in all the ambiguity with my own theories. With the dry factual tone of Wikipedia I could imagine the scene playing out any which way I liked. It could have been a sunny day, a misty evening, a pitch black night. All was well, nothing was suspicious, until suddenly everything went wrong. It was comforting for a girl who worked at Subway 8 hours a day 6 days a week, while I pinched every penny in pursuit of my own real escape: an international holiday that I believed would change everything.
Have you read A Southern Bookclubs Guide to Killing Vampires, its about a bookclub who read a lot of true crime set in the 80s & 90s. In a lot of ways it felt like the opposite of a YA novel, instead of being about one teenage girl against the world, it was one middle age mom and her best friends against a man they new was bad news but couldnt convince any of the men around them until it was too late. Its a lot of fun.
Ah, I have wondered about this for quite some time - I spent mid-2019 to mid-2021 listening to all of the episodes of My Favorite Murder and watched several Netflix true crime mini-series. In a weird way, I got it out of my system during that period, because for the past year I have had very little desire to jump back into true crime. But what exaclty was that "it" that made me obsessed with true crime for two years - I'm not really sure... I really liked all of your reflections!
I've watched 12 true crime series in may so far. I feel like for me it's a lot of education, I like the psychology behind it, and I like the history and find it really interesting seeing how the investigation went wrong and how easy it would be for it to happen again. I'm looking for statistics of the likely hood of walking past a murderer / serial killer if anyone knows. As an ex sex worker I'm aware I've met multiple (through things they did to me) and so I know that statistics can skew but yeah I find it interesting. I also think there's a component of trauma healing in there. It has to be completely awful for me to believe it - I don't watch much that isn't depressing because it's like a bad quality film of pigs flying. The lack of pain and trauma makes it feel unbelievable. So being able to have the pain helps me get into it, but also most of the time the bad person gets punished and goes to prison. That never happened for me, so I suppose murder, abduction, abuse films and series give me hope. I already know the bad stuff happens but the true crime helps me remember that they don't always get away.
I go in and out of watching true crime just because the darkness of the material begins to invade my head (esp. true of Forensic Files, which always ends up with me being bizarrely angry at the detectives and forensic pathologists, esp. when they talk about 'defeating evil.' Also, it seems like there are either extremely dumb criminals, which is only obvious to the viewer with the benefit of hindsight, or supermasterful serial killers, who we are supposed to admire in some way, and who must thwart law enforcement in order for their 'serialness' to be exposed. If feels like a tired trope that makes all women potential victims and exhalts the criminal. I liked the quote you read at the end, that kindness, nay even boredom are the norm and we often take it for granted. That's good to remember.
I've always been more interested in fictional crime shows (I was absolutely obsessed with Criminal Minds) and it was definitely a mix of anxiety (seeing everything get wrapped up and the problem solved and the bad thing both validated and defeated) and also a fascination with something that just doesn't happen where I'm from. But now that I have a child I just can't watch it any more because so much harm happens to kids on those shows and it really upsets me.
I too started delving into the world of True Crime over lockdown (and I was weirdly obsessed with Ashes to Ashes and Life on Mars when I was about 14) so a lot of this video resonated with me. I totally agree that I think my fascination with true crime is all about it being preventative and just presuming at some point I will need to know "what not to do." (If anyone wants a true crime podcast recommendation, check out Redhanded!)
I literally googled and bookmarked ‘how to spot a sociopath’ after watching The Tinder Swindler and The Puppet Master on Netflix!! I find that financial scamming/life manipulating true crime scares me more, so knowing the signs of a sociopath seemed to give me a greater feeling of control in case I end up in a friendship or relationship with one of them😂
His show is also a podcast, would recommend, he takes some really interesting calls and is pretty fair in the way he conducts debates, definitely would love to be more like him in the way I approach things.
So 👏 damn 👏 interesting! 👏 I don’t love true crime but feel like you’ve also kind of explained some of what is going on when me and friends rewatch the most tragic Louis Theroux docs and people who keep telling me they can’t stop watching Johnny Depo and Amber Heard testimonies? They both have those elements of solving a mystery/is someone properly evil here or what can I do to avoid ending up with this kind of situation.
I'm not a fan of true crime but I cannot recommend the book The Five more. It is about the canonical 5 ripper victims, and it is centred on changing the victorian narratives about the victims.
It was a standout read of 2020 for me too. Very interesting focus on the victims and their lives, rather than on their killer. Made me reassess a lot of what I thought I knew about women’s lives but also gave a lot of historical context.
My theory about why people like serial killers is pretty much the same as why people are attracted to villains or monster men, and that's that the level of danger is clear, as opposed to other men. Any man you meet could be anything between a literal saint or an axe murderer or worse and even if most are decent you won't know for sure at least until you know him well. But with a villain or a monster at least you know from the start exactly what their nefarious intentions are and you don't have to have the anxiety and apprehension of not knowing. And maybe additionally it's a relief to be allowed to express fear and distrust without risking unjustifiably insulting a person. Like I'm already scared that a man could kill or otherwise hurt me, but I'm not generally allowed to express that feeling unless they are a known killer or fictional bad guy.
I agree with everything you’ve said. Gosh I already commented a lot in the comment section, ( I know, sad. So many women having this shared collective trauma. Ugh) but yes. The unexpected kind of evil, are the worst.
A. I wonder if the obsession with boys not liking you is a purity culture thing. I was never "boy-crazy," but SO preoccupied with the fact that they didn't. B. Every couple of months I wake up and have days where I binge podcasts about cults and then don't think on it again for ages. I wonder if that is a post-Christianity thing...
I periodically do the same thing with cult doco's. I escaped a cult so I think it is for me, as a previous poster put it, placebo closure. It is definitely not because I want to relive any of it. I often wonder if it makes things better or worse 🤷
I watch/listen to Bailey Sarian for Bailey Sarian, lol, most of the content isn't that important, though I'm really really loving her Dark History podcast. I just really like her presenting personality
Getting multiple degrees in Criminology and Criminal Justice mostly just taught me that poor and desperate people are the most penalized of systemic conditions. I still enjoy "true crime" but in reality its like any other media. It's stories, not necessarily true or untrue. It's drama but with the added insidiousness of supposedly being real characters who lived in this world once. Most of the time these people aren't even known as anything other than the victim or perpetrator of said crime. I find white collar crime to be a bit more fascinating. Probably why I've been binging Corporate Casket and similar shows here on UA-cam.
I've gotten to a point with true crime where I only want to hear about financial crimes, and ones without physical harm done to others at that; it just feels so icky otherwise
I've only seen half of the video yet but did you ever do a breakdown video of the twilight saga?! I don't know if you did or if i missed it but i'd love if you'd share more of your thoughts on it like you did with "the hunger games" ALSO!! YOU LOVE "THE HOST" which is in your (and my) opinion superior to twilight so i'd love a video on that as well. Okay i just realized this feels like i'm at a restuarant and you're the server and i'm just listing off things from a menu like "yes i want this and this and this and do you have this?" 🤣
Hallie Rubenhold's Bad Women: The Ripper Retold was a really nice antidote for me to the true crime genre, which honestly gives me hives. Something you didn't really have space in the video to touch on is also that the million-dollar industry often makes all of this money off the suffering of the most marginalised who continue to be marginalised. Sex workers, drug users, and precariously housed people (runaways, people dealing with homelessness) are the most common victims of serial killers. They are still intensely criminalised populations who are made vulnerable to this violence by the wrongs of a moralistic capitalist state that benefits from a prison industrial complex. True crime also, even in showing the bumbling police officer, upholds prison as a necessary tool for "controlling" these outliers in society. The police "must" exist because SOMEONE has to be trying to solve the crime. And police officers who do a "good job" are lauded as heroes. True crime teaches us that the ultimate form of justice is a life sentence or a death sentence. It also teaches us that you can make a lot of money narrating other people's misery while providing no material gain to those affected by such tragedies (or advocating for societal change). I have honestly been left with the feeling that the white women who hold the power in true crime don't particularly care for systemic change or transformative justice.
I'm not at all obsessed with serial killers. Maybe when I was 13 but it was only one. Manson. The part that was most fascinating is how so many couldn't believe attractive young women could be so heinous, but would believe it easily if one was less attractive or 'ugly'. Humanity. I am obsessed with the crimes conducted by our governing body's secret services, sometimes colluding with those that we are at war with... Makes me feel like we have no real power in anything because it is all financial power driven boats heading for waterfalls while some of us see our heading, all grab oars and paddle maddeningly, but those paddles don't even reach the feckin water. I am also obsessed with trying to figure out how to live in a system that I see as a construct built to serve those that are benefiting most, and one can't even opt out to live as they would because you know, money, and 'being a part' is essential for survival. And I'm obsessed by the lack of justice for the trillions that are murdered and abused every year just because someone feels it is their choice to eat them or wear their parts, or drink their excretions --- How did I even land on this planet? So I don't really have time for horror movies or serial killer obsessions. Yeah it's that kinda week.
En France on a notre "true crime" nationale avec "l'affaire Grégory Villemin", un petit garçon qui a été assassiné dans les années 80, dans les Vosges (c'est assez glauque et surtout très tragique). Arte avait fait une série de reportages sur l'enquête et ce qu'était devenu la famille après la mort de l'enfant. C'était plutôt bien fait, mais je ne pouvait m'empêcher de penser "mais laissez les en paix. Ils ont vécu l'enfer, laissez les tranquille". Des fois ce genres de podcast/reportage/vidéo me mettent assez mal à l'aise surtout quand c'est des affaires non résolu, je ne peux m'empêcher de penser à la famille.
I went through about 1 year of listening to true crime podcasts all the time. I didn’t really think critically about it until I met someone who, when I became closer to her, told me about a murder in her immediate family. As she was telling me about it, I realised that I had listened to a podcast episode and a UA-cam video about it. My first reaction was ‘omg I know this murder!’. Then… ‘omg I know this murder… and this is my reaction… shit.’ I realised that I was being entertained by other people’s trauma. I don’t judge people for enjoying true crime, but my reaction genuinely made me realise my unhealthy relationship with it and how I was disassociating the videos/podcasts with real life people/victims.
"Freud makes me think, even if he doesn't make me nod" you just described my whole university experience with a single sentence hahaha (bachelor's of psychology btw)
When she said she was going to use her new house as a set, she meant it. Under bed, stairs, shed.
I think people get drawn to true crime during stressful times because it gives you something to focus your anxious feelings on. It's much easier to live with the constant sense of impending doom if you can explain, process and feel that feeling in a way that feels safe and contained. In real life you don't get the whole story and your always in the middle of stuff happening. And you can also tell yourself 'at least something that bad didn't happen to me' and feel like you now know what to do if it ever does happen to you
That's a really great theory actually. Makes sense.
This! I only watch thrillers when I’m already anxious, been doing it for years. It’s so oddly soothing.
Historically, some true crime became some of our best known fairy tales: Hansel and Gretel and the great plagues of Europe in the 1300s where many parents abandoned their children in churches and there were more than just rumours of cannibalism; Red Riding Hood and Peter Stumpp, a man in the 1500s who dressed as a wolf and killed many children; wife-killer Bluebeard is also linked to Conomor and Henri Désiré Landru, two serial killers etc. These horrible true stories became even more story-fied and were often used as warnings, and they've endured across the centuries. And as Kiki Smith, a folklorist, said about fairy tales in general (and their link to horrific things): "You know, life is scary. And a lot of this is about exorcizing, or physically manifesting your fear. ...I think a lot of it is about making the scariest things you can think of and making them physically overt, outside of yourself, like a protection racket." xx
Source?
@@rebeccasrandomness3045 I'm an author; I write about fairy tales. I also have video essays on the history of fairy tales on my channel, too.
@@rebeccasrandomness3045 PS and if you mean the source for Kiki Smith's comment in particular, that's from The Blue Issue of The Fairy Tale Review.
That's super interesting, thank you for the comment.
The rabbit holes we fall down. I'm a trying-to-be-writer myself and your comment interested me hugely. Mega fairy tale nerd over here. There are a few videos on your channel that I will be jumping into after I've watched this one. I've done fairy tale research myself but mainly specific to what I've written, and I've never come across these theories. Two of my worlds collide...
I was 16, walking to college on a rainy British day, and a car pulled up and two guys tried to get me in their car. I'm not gonna lie, the PTSD is real. I was able to hit and kick my way out as a car drove past and spooked them and ran to a ladies house to wait for police.
When I look back, I wish I had done more. I wish I had screamed, I wish I knew to scratch to get dna under my nails. I watch true crime because I want to know more of how to protect myself and see the red flags.
I just wanted to come and say that how you responded was completely valid. You didn’t know those things at the time and even if you did, it’s so unlikely you would have remembered to do this! The fight/flight/freeze/reaction is automatic, our body goes into the reaction it thinks will be most likely to keep us safe. Screaming - not a common survival reaction as we want to keep oxygen in our body to fuel our fight/flight response. In addition, with fighting, some people will go into this mode, but it’s generally automatic. Some people will fight, others will focus on fleeing and others will freeze or go along with the attacker - all are valid survival reactions that work in different situations. If you’d responded differently, you may not have been able to get away. If you’d screamed they may have knocked you out. How you responded may have been the best for the situation. It was beyond your control! Even soldiers cannot control the fight/flight reaction completely. Practice and rehearsing situations with your body can help a bit - that’s why martial arts can be helpful. But only when it becomes so automatic and you’ve done it in a range of places. I hope this helps, that’s such a horrible thing to experience x
@@charleylouise3900 after years of therapy, no one has ever made me feel validated for how I handled it. This honestly means more to me than you may ever realise. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, thank you 💗
@@zoebird5177 I’m glad it helped. I work with trauma survivors and I’ve found knowing this helpful for my own trauma. I’m so sorry to hear it wasn’t validated until now. I hope it helps you heal x
Every video of yours leaves me more enamoured by your skills than the next. You are bloody marvellous at this, and never fail to make me consider new things or articulate my scattered thoughts in the most sensible way. I wish more people got the pleasure of seeing your content!!!
I read somewhere that people enjoy crime fiction because it’s a problem that is solved and the guilty have consequences and the innocent live happily ever after so it satisfies a need for order in chaos xx
Khadija Mbowe did a video essay a while back about 'missing white woman syndrome' that talks about the influence the victims gender and racialization has on reporting and investigation of crimes.
see, i knew you were going to have fascinating thoughts on twilight. i also really liked it when i was younger and now have difficulty understanding how i ever could have been pro a relationship like that. but as someone who was deeply afraid of sexual violence, not just through media but also personal experience... you really might have discovered something here
I am extremely critical of the true crime I consume and have almost stopped consuming it altogether. I just can't get rid of the thought that these are people talking about the most horrific things nonchalantly (sometimes while doing their make up) and earning money (and clout) from it... I can't help but think of a family member or friend of the victim stumbling across a video. Especially when sometimes the info is just wrong or incomplete (whether because of insufficient research or details not being released by the police) and they then speculate about how someone in the family could have done it based on that incomplete information. Just imagine you lose someone close to you in such a violent manner and then the internet is convinced you did it and on top of grieving you now have to deal with that insane situation. Imagine you're Madeline McCann's parents and the entire internet is convinced you are at fault for you child's death. I am not defending them or accusing them but just imagine what that must be like if they didn't do it. It's just not okay.
I would never judge anyone who watches/listens to true crime. It is addictive but I also am very wary of it, especially with unsolved cases, esp. when they're (somewhat) recent and when it seems really sensationalized (shocked thumbnail, etc.). I do still listen to true crime content but I make sure it's presented at least somewhat ethicallly, like I listen to one podcast that even changes names sometimes or ones that let victims/friends/family/those close to the investigation speak (like Bed of Lies or Bear Brook). Or just those that are historical and/or solved.
Also for a very fun take on true crime, i loved the show American Vandal. It's sort of like a true crime mockumentary and it seems quite juvenile at first but makes a great point on the ethics of true crime!
Your comment made me think of the Vanishing at the Cecil Hotel Netflix series where the Internet harangued a man who happened to dress and act alternatively because the Internet believed he'd murdered the poor missing girl. I thought the inclusion of his story was really important and really made me think more about the speculation around unsolved cases and the harm it can do!
@@emma.greenwood exactly! I don't know much about that case specifically but often people that are suspected because they're seen as "weird", which unfortunately more often than not translates to neurodivergent or just alternative lifestyles
@@user-es7ui5mc1m so true, sadly 😭
I have been a consumer of true crime since I was a child. I remember picking up a book from my parents' shelves that was about unsolved murders in my country and reading it in secret. I was maybe 9. I've kept asking myself, as long as I can remember, why do I go back to these stories again and again. See, I was sexually assaulted by a stranger while on my way home from school at 7 years old. I'm not, and never have, consumed true crime "from the outside". The unthinkable has already happened, yet here I am, asking the same questions as the rest of you. I don't think there are any easy answers for any of us. What I have learned though, is that nothing makes me feel as unsafe in this world as obsessively consuming true crime does. I have now mostly given it up, as it makes me feel like behind every corner there is someone waiting to harm me. And I've been around that corner, I've looked a man in the eye who wanted and did harm me, I know anything can and will happen. But that knowledge never left me to believe that the world is inherently bad, obsessive amounts of true crime did! So I guess my point is, to anyone who enjoys true crime, that it's fine, just please remember to take healthy breaks in between. Loved this video and the ending was everything. Despite what happened to me, I feel lucky; lucky that I survived, that in all the other ways I grew up in a world and in a family that made me feel like kindness is normal and that violence, even when it occured, was only an outlier, a blib.
"that's not genius, that's just symmetry" is my new motto
On the appeal of Edward to teen girls--Where's the lie??? Yep, spot-on.
That’s sad because I’m fascinated by people who are awed by horrific topics like serial killers. I, like many before me, grew up in a traumatizing environment. I’ve known people are broken and horrid and that’s what makes them act like so. There is no fascination. There’s just sadness and pain and death. How lucky to have the luxury to be fascinated.
Great video Leena. I watched the whole thing as usual. Super well thought out.
I’m so grateful you’ve made this video - I feel like so much media attention on woman’s obsession with true crime has really come from a place of trying to shame them and not understand them
I actually edited my friend's thesis on My Favorite Murder + nonbinary people's interest into the subject of true crime podcasts! It was an incredible thesis, so glad some research is out there ☺️
lol
This feeling I often have watching your videos is : "wow it's exactly what I thought but I couldn't put it into words" so thank very much !
Even tho I’m not a big fan of the twilight saga in general, that moment when Edward scared off those bunch of hooligans was the exact moment that I went, “yeah you know what, why not. We like him now.” It’s so sad and not fair that women have to pay extra mind to assaults of that nature. And it’s so sad that I knew exactly what you meant and felt when you were talking about men harassing women vocally even assault women physically out in the streets. Ugh.
I listened to true crime podcasts a lot but then I had a lecture about MMIW and femicide in the Americas which shifted my perspective. it's how you said that most of the cases that are covered in the true crime podcasts center on white women/girls (and often middle-class ) but they won't cover the hundreds of women (and other genders/identities) of colour.
It's true that these cases often don't have a "satisfying" conclusion but if you take into consideration the last point you made about kind normality with highlighted points of awfulness in our lives, it's striking how in Indigenous/Black/minority communities these violences are so common that the cases that "stand out" are rare. There are just too many of them. And that goes hand in hand with the 'fictionalization' of true crime that people detach it from reality like fiction stories, e.g. disregarding the reality of the victims and their families, which can result in people invading those people's spaces over a crime they somehow feel involved in now because they listened to a podcast about it. I don't have a problem with true crime as such rather I think that the communities that group up/fans of podcasts etc. can grow pretty problematic in how they view and discuss the crimes and how they operate (for example the infamous t-shirts with real serial killers on them, etc.)
And I'm not trying to bash anyone for listening or watching stuff about true crime, just giving my 2 cents to the discussion.
Definitely a very complicated topic on so many levels.
Yeah like if true crime focussed on the genocide of Indigenous women here in Canada (for one there wouldn't be a satisfying conclusion because no one in power gives a shit) then the government might actually be pressured to call it a genocide and investigate like they promised to do in their 2015(!!!) election platform. Same with the genocide of trans women globally. But with those stories you're also not unpacking the mind of a single person so much as a system of enabling, hatred, and prejudice. Though serial killing does manage to address misogyny so why not these other issues? Most of the time though to be fair it doesn't actually address the systemic enabling of misogynist crimes and stresses the individualism of the crimes when that's so clearly not the main problem.
@@asterismos5451 you hit the nail of the head with that individualism x systematic sentence! One can distance from a deranged individual but hardly from the system they live in.
this reminds of watching Strong Woman Do Bong Soon and how it was the first time i never had to worry about the female character being bested by a man physically since she is meant to be the strongest human on earth, like i didn't even realise that that was a fear that was this prevelant in the back of my mind and yet
As a long term youtube addict, i definitely see correlations between my obsessions and how shit my mental health and procrastination tendencies are at that time.
Another note on Ted Bundy is that he wasn't just semetirical and the cops incopotent but he straight up depended on the fact that his victems and AFAB people in general are kind and helpful and he frequently pretended to be hurt/ingured to get them to his car. Like he was straight up abusing the natural instinct for colaboration
I would love your Twilight insights
Love the way you ended this video! Thanks for another gem, Leena x
Okay I'm at 9.40 after the Edward discussion
I HAD THIS EXACT SAME CONVERSATION WITH THE TWO LOVES OF MY LIFE.
the ex didn't understand what was so sexy about Edward and I was like he is the ultimate protector (as is Jacob). I then had to explain that women are often the victim of crime, we're brought up being told that we're probably going to have some horrible sticky end we didn't deserve. He didn't believe me, even when I brought up stats and then he straight up gaslighted me. Dick.
He also failed to comprehend why it was terrifying having a strange homeless man sleeping in our doorway and blocking the only exit to our alleyway, which is well shielded from the street. Like Unknown Man is women's boogeyman and he just didn't understand that primal fear of ANYTHING could happen. It's unlikely but uaknow, it's a bad 10% to gamble on.
My current squeeze had a lightbulb moment when I explained Edward to him.
I'm now going to use it as a litmus test for blokes bc it really does show where a man's ability to understand how it feels to be female in a horrible world.
omg that is SO INTERESTING!!!! A new litmus test indeed. I agree, it's not that I'm defending my previous love of Edward, but the idea that it's not UNDERSTANDABLE or doesn't MAKE SENSE irks me. Love that you're using this as a meter stick now, fascinating.
Honesty, I had the same type of conversation with a guy I was seeing. and with multiple guys, As I was explaining i have been in those sticky, non-consensual, unfortunate situations, and bear in mind I wasn’t even trying to get easy sympathy ( we never are, contrary to what some men might believe ), I would get very fast but short response almost like a reflex “oh Wow that’s sad. I knew it happened to someone I know” yet it was just…truly lacking in sympathy or real understanding. One of them even offered me sex right after saying that. I know, shocking. I only told him my experiences only to trying to reject his advances in the first place! Saying it happens to some women you know, does not mean you truly understand. Some ppl say it purely to get it out of the way, so that they themselves don’t get seen as “the bad guy”. It was eye opening. When my instinct told me those guy didn’t truly understand, they are usually right. Somewhere down the line, those relationships all broke down because our lives were too different, and they did not make the effort, or they lack empathy, PLUS active learning to at least meet me, and prob many other women they have & will date, in the middle.
A few years ago I lived in a house with 3 male housemates, all good guys. One morning a few guys walked up onto our porch and stole our outdoor furniture. We caught it on camera so I didn't know about it until it was too late, but I was the only one home at the time. A few days later, someone broke into all our cars one night. After that I was nervous to be home alone. I told my housemates this and they didn't get it. They laughed when I said it was because if someone broke in and it was just me, worse things than our shit being stolen might happen. This had not occurred to them, apparently.
I'll be honest I didn't immediately watch this because I was expecting it to be milquetoast takes about morbid curiosity, but this had some really refreshing thoughts in them. I'm sorry I ever underestimated you, Leena. Thank you :D
I used to watch loads of ‘true crime UA-camrs’ but now I’m a lot more selective and when some of them use posey pictures of themselves in the thumbnail, or do their makeup when talking about a case, idk I feel like if that was my loved one they were talking about I would feel really odd about it, I think it’s different when it’s a missing person case as spreading awareness could help with leads but when it’s a solved case it’s like what is this video adding? Other than just light entertainment?
Also in regards to your comment about the McCann case/white victims I would definitely recommend looking up Nils Christie’s ‘ideal victim’ theory which pretty much fits exactly that!
Another amazing video as always Leena! 👏🏼 x
Completely agree with this and it’s something I’ve struggled to put into words for true crime fans without them getting super defensive about it 😬
Nothing really to say other than top work, mate!
16:30 " absolve us from . . . The guilt of even thinking about it in the first place." Yeah, I was raised Catholic, and I'm much healthier now that I know it's what you do with your thoughts and feelings that's important. You're not evil for feeling something, or thinking something. Thoughts and feelings are clues, information about what's going on, and then those can influence our decisions, how we treat ourselves and others, but a thought or feeling is just a thought or feeling, not an action, and not inherently good or evil.
Fabulous video, btw! Scariest setting so far - I'm still watching - is the isolated cabin-esque with the lace sheers. *Shiver
EDIT: LOL, Then you say you hear footsteps outside the shed. Even spookier. 😁👍 But I have three big dogs with me today, so feeling pretty safe. 🥰🐾🐕
Such a great video! Really loved how you played with colours and lighting so much
The quote at the end gave me chills. I can’t wait til the book comes in at my library 😅 great vid!
Here's an example I Iearnt at uni that helped me consider the oversimplification that 'some people who are inherently bad'...
Saïd and Chérif Kouachi committed the Charlie Hebdo attack in France: they didn't know their father, their mother prostituted herself to try to make ends meet before killing herself because of the financial struggle. At this time they lived in a building known for being frequented by pedophiles...
When you consider all that trauma, it's much easier to understand how they turned to crime, seeking vengeance against a society that failed them
that's actually relatively 'common' if that's the right word, amongst people who commit horrible crimes. A lot of them were abused and grew up in horrible circumstances and never got help. That's not to say that if that happens to you, you grow up to be a serial killer, but a lot of people who are (serial) killers or even sex offenders have that kind of 'background'. It's not an excuse and obviously doesn't help victims or their friends & family but it is something to consider. Very very few people are just born as full on sociopaths with an urge to kill. Again, not an excuse, doesn't make it okay, but just generally, we need to remember that most people aren't just evil for no reason
Super interesting video Leena. I go through periods of watching true crime, although when I had a traumatic family bereavement (not due to crime) it suddenly felt too real. I think for me it serves to equally inform and horrify me as to the depths of human nature and what is potentially inside all of us. And I think what I didn't understand that closes the circle for me is much of what has been discussed in the comments - it's a contained trauma, something to be dissected and put down safely, a closed end. I have at times come across UA-cam comments written from supposed family members/friends of the victims which has really changed how I feel about what format of true crime I consume and the way it is handled!
Oh, I also got obsessed with Bailey in 2020! Every now and then I have an URGE and binge tons of her videos, then I feel bad about it, ignore them... And wait for the next binge.
Watching through all of the videos that didn't immediately appeal to me subject-wise, and the conclusion of this video surprised me as it summarized why I have never been into true crime.
I am begging for your twilight video
I loved the little bit of the twilight video you snuck in there, I’d be really interested in hearing you talk more about twilight although I appreciate you don’t want to post that particular video
I find this interesting because I've never gone down the true crime route, ever. For me personally, having experienced r*pe, I can't bear to watch true crime. Cannot bear it. We watched that TV show with Gillian Anderson as the police detective and that one as the serial killer and I reaaaalllyyy struggled with it. The only crime novels I read are Sophie Hannah and the absolutely ridiculous and hilarious Agatha Raisin series.
I think a lot of people enjoy true crime in part because in those stories there is a clear distinction between victims and aggressors.
Even when cases are complex the horrors are so terrible that nobody would ever suggest that the victim is the one at fault.
The cases treated are also the cases where you can explain « evil » which is a lot more reassuring.
Moreover, you can empathise with a victim on a deeper level and really detach from the culprit in the context of the murder/agression.
All of that can help you process your own traumas in my opinion.
( Sorry if I’m not really clear, English is not my first language )
so many complex layers! thank you for making this video!
Loved this one Lena! Your theory of the appeal of Edward hit the nail on the head for me as someone who has had (and continues to have) fears like those.
Also a fellow fan of Sarah Marshall and PYW. Bo Burnham in that role shattered my heart! Such perfect casting of the 'nice guys' in all of those roles.
EDIT (spoiler for Promising Young Woman): Oh and about the ending of PYW, I heard that the powers that be wanted a happier ending but she stuck with the one she had because she said 1) it was more realistic and 2) that we have so many men in roles where they know they're going to have an 'honourable death for a cause' type ending so why couldn't a woman.
The section where you were talking about the comfort recurved by the public when our fears are assuaged by political leaders made me think of a book I read years ago: Prius or Pickup? How for Simple Questions Explain Americas Great Divide. It’s obviously about US politics, but it’s also about the global slide we’re seeing into authoritarianism, due to the fact that there are people with fixed and fluid mindsets (the researchers figured this out by asking 4 questions in an exit poll at elections). People with more of a fixed mindset do not want nuanced answers, they want someone to point out a culprit and say everything will be ok. And even people with more mixed and fluid mindsets shift to a more fixed mindset when they are afraid (the authors use the example of 9/11 in the US and the fact that many people were scared and ok with finding a source of blame and taking action- war- that they would not have supported otherwise). Anyway, I think you’re onto something and wanted to share the book rec in case you’re interested- thanks for the thought-provoking content!
Leena norms you always make me think!
I think we need the twilight video!!! This one was incredible!!! Xxx
Absolutely agree with everything you've said in this video. It's a complex one, especially in relation to stress and coping strategies. I, too, tend to watch true crime when stressed, and I've put it down to a lot of things you mentioned: the satisfying narrative structure when the case is solved and justice done; a safe way to be scared and be comforted; catharsis and having a socially acceptable place to feel emotions I struggle to deal with in my personal life (it's easy and acceptable to direct anger or frustration at a killer); familiar stories told in slightly different ways (like watching *yet another* doco about whichever famous serial killer when you know all the details is kind of the same familiarity as rewatching The Office for the tenth time - you know what's coming next in the story, and that's a relief); the privilege of knowing however stressful your life is, you're still so far detached from how bad true crime is. Etc.
And as you say, it's a very problematic genre of content. I've become more selective with what I watch but I still feel guilty for finding 'entertainment' in others' pain.
And a safe way to experience extreme emotions too! I feel like Lena actually touched on this in a past video.
Like a catharsis of fear and rage is more enjoyable than low level tension of a pandemic, for example.
For me, it's important that I be critical of the true crime that I consume. I find that a lot of shows/documentaries are very heavy-handed with the copaganda and that's just not what I'm looking for. I prefer true crime that focuses on the victims as fully realized people and not just crime scene photos. I'll be Gone in the Dark was a great example of that to me. It was interesting and chilling, but the victims and Michelle McNamara were the focus of the show. So I guess my point is, true crime, like anything, can be done well and respectfully or done badly and it's important to be a critical viewer and think about what I'm watching.
I need to watch this video at least 10 more times to soak up all the smart analyses Leena makes.
I think for me - a Certified couldn't handle that one spooky episode of Merlin and certainly not doctor who Scardy Cat - true crime is as close as I'll get to watching horror films.
Horror films are apparently good cos you experience the scary thing at a safe distance, and the more deeply affected by it, the more emphatic/Highly Sensitive TM you are. Or something along those lines. (Not trying to call myself an empath here I just don't enjoy being scared).
So like maybe true crime is an even safer way of experiencing horror? The good podcasts are often talked about in a calm voice, they're respectful to the victims, but also really delve into what made the perpetrator tick.
I really love the way Ask A Mortician does these deep dives into tragedies, she did JFK recently and it was excellent. I also really liked Mind Hunters - it's creepy in a skin crawling way that makes you think there's something not quite right about the main character; it's not traditional horror, it's more day to day horror. Watch with a friend for best night sleep... 😬
Maybe it's the lack of jump scares, lack of dramatisation and lack of 'POV you're gonna die' that makes it that much safer? Or perhaps as you said low key taking notes so we don't end up like them?
Ngl tho I have to strategically listen to them when I know I'm not going to be alone for a long stretch of time bc I have a vivid imagination and an even more vivid night terror imagination so I'm low key scared I'm going to launch myself downstairs running away from a dream intruder. 😅 I'm also scared of the dark so it's like a triple whammy 🤦♀️
Hearing your perspective is very interesting, as someone with almost opposite taste in media. I love horror movies, but true crime content is often too much for me to handle (unless it's very lighthearted, like Buzzfeed Unsolved or smth similar).
A movie might be scary at the time, but ultimately I know that there are no ghosts or demons or other similar creatures; it's not real, so it can't hurt me.
On the other hand, true crime content (especially more recent stories) makes me afraid to leave my house 😅
Was just me mentally drafting my comment about Sarah Marshall and ‘You’re wrong about’ when you mentioned it yourself!
Great minds think alike!
I’ve been into true crime since high school back in the 80s. At the time I was really into learning about psychology, plus my dad loved to read books about serial killers. Human psychology is an interesting topic. You have the serial killers who kill people because they like it and then there are the people who murder for all different kinds of motives. You’re definitely right about people liking to hear cases solved and perpetrators convicted. I get frustrated when I watch a video about an unsolved case. I was so excited when they finally caught the Golden State Killer. A lot of his crimes happened in the area I live in when I was just 7 years old. Back then he was known as the East Area Rapist. My mom was newly separated and scared to death to have the windows open at night. When they arrested him he was living 5 miles away from me. It’s just fascinating stuff. Horrible, but fascinating. I also like to watch shows about forensic science because it’s also fascinating how they catch people.
I've been obsessed with true crime since elementary school. I think for me it's a fascination with human behavior. Also, I grew up in the serial killer capital of the US. I didn't like twilight, so I can't relate in that way. Also, as someone whose been attacked, the thought of being attacked again is terrifying. I agree about true crime being a study so we can save ourselves. Home invasion has always been a fear.
Helena-inspired look in a huge red chair is such a vibe
I don't think those shows are just alluring to people whose lives are essentially filled with kindness. If your life feels unsafe, you may find solidarity there. The world is shown as you see it - unsafe and hostile. I think a big point is also that it is contained. Yes, there were bad things happening but you know the episode lasts for x minutes and then it's over. The story is over, the victim is dead and no longer suffering. Wether or not the perpetrator is caught and punished the victim has escaped the horrible situation (often through death) and that in and of itself is reassuring. For a moment suffering is over and you are able to move along, to grief, seek revenge or what ever instead of being stuck in the persistent pain of your own life. It helps you process your own feelings when you feel trapped in a painful inescapable situtaion. Kind of like a placebo closure
that is such a good point! The phrase 'placebo closure' is chilling but so accurate.
This is such a nuanced yet insightful take, and I absolutely love that. When I wasn’t in a good place mentally in life, I watched so much more analytical, toned down, and even melancholic stuff, the other bright and happily ever after stuff just made me physically sick.
This is making me want to watch Mr. Ballen.
Which is a terrible idea because I'm a whimp, and I'm going to be home alone all weekend.
I swear my brain likes us to be sleep deprived and panicked. Lolol
Oh my God yes, lucky us to think that behavior is unthinkable.
Also, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOUR TAKE ON WHY WE LIKED EDWARD. I intensely disliked a lot of the things in Twilight even though I read it with fascination, but the willingness and power to protect were so f hot! Though another big part is just that I like sexual tension in my books 😂
Please post your Twilight video!!! I'd love to see that!
super insightful and entertaining as always!
I also had a fear of being kidnapped as a teenager, to the point where I would run away if a car slowed near me, and I would walk as far away from the road as possible when walking on the pavement
Your video was so interesting and came at an incredibly fitting time for me !
I've been really hooked on the Depp v Heard trial for a week now, have watched all the full-length trial live videos available in a matter of days. Since I'm currently recovering from an accident, I don't work or study at the moment, so I really have a lot of time on my hands, so to speak. And two days ago I started a binge of true crime and criminology videos, from commentators dissecting interrogation recordings, to people recounting ''famous'' murder/assault/various crimes stories like the one girl you mentioned.
I think that your take on this true crime binges phenomenon, especially at stressfull times, is really something I had never realised. And now that I've listened to your reasoning it all seems so obvious to me, and it resonates very much with me.
So that was a long message (from a French viewer, so I'm sorry if some bits are confusing idk), but ultimately I had the urge to really thank you for making this video. It kinda opened my eyes to the fact that, though I personally watch true crime and violence-infused drama real life events for many reasons evoked in your video, I most definitely do so for coping purposes at the moment. And this realisation allows me to reflect on the matter from a new perspective, so thank you Leena ! x
I grew up with serious crimes in my immediate neighbourhood and I have always been drawn to true and fictional crime. And even in my studies I seeked out deviance sociology and criminology. However, during the first lockdown the algorithm served me an obnoxiously long video on an interpretation of Twin Peaks. How Lynch created it in spite of the weekly murder stories where the victim and someone's trauma is consumable entertainment for an hour and then we quickly move onto the next trauma. Also, I think Sarah and Michael discussed this on "You are wrong about". So eversince I try to keep away from true crime (even though i love it) , as it basically commodifies other people's pain.
This was truly illuminating. I love your mind
My husband remains horrified that true crime docus are my ASMR that puts me in a relaxed state. I have watched so many of them, read so many serial killer books etc. what’s also funny is that i too am a scaredy-cat in real life. I hate horror movies and jump scares, i can barely stomach shows like Criminal Minds 😅 what a complex thing it is 😂
A safe way to experience something scary! Like preparing for it in a way is soothing and gives a sense of control 😅
I can not wait to see this video as this is me too a tea love you and your amazing channel please stay safe and enjoy your reading love your family friend John xxx
I've thought about this a lot.
I've been falling into wikipidia-crime-article rabbit-holes for... Well years. Since high school probably. Maybe late elementary school. Long before it became knows as a "true crime obsession" & before I found out other people did it too.
And honestly when I've thought about it, it just seems like one of people's natural reponses to fear? like when you're afraid of spiders (my biggest phobia) - and yet you're weirdly fascintaed/can't look away from like documentaries about them etc. (And then you regret it, cause you're on edge for hours). Fears just have a way of drawing you in. Maybe because it's something in your life that's so intense... And you often can't explain why it's even there - that specific one. And why it has such a grasp on your life.
I've been exposed accidentally & way to early, like probably most people to violent scenes in movies. Like SA scenes, kidnapping scenes etc. These things happen in like... PG movies - they're not explicit - but damn, I feel like even the idea of these things - characters subtly talking about them - kind of... traumatized me as a kid. They instilled the fear that there are people out there in the world who would love to kidnap me - a little girl. And I distinctively remember thinking I really wanted to finally be 17-18 years old - no longer the "goal" for like... Pedophile kidnappers. That's how paranoid I became as a 10-12 year old girl.
And from that point on these things have always like /been/ there. In the back of my head. I became alert and scared. And giving into it - giving it attention was... Awful in a way. But also weirdly calming? Like I can give attention to the problem that's always there anyway - taking up some part of my brain and releasing stress and bad emotions. And when I gave it my full attention for a while it just... Don't know really. It's like I could stop running from the thoughts and just face them. And move on for a while, until I felt the urge to read these things again. It's probably like being constantly scared of some bad scenario happening - and then it happens, and it's awful... But at least you can stop being scared of it potenially happening - you know? I feel like it may be the same mechanism at work.
No one will probably read this (: But it felt weridly relaxing to share! Love the video
lol okay, so this is the first video i've seen of yours and i gotta say (following you now).
I hate true crime, it's annoying and I don't really like the theatrics of it. I feel like they dramatize it, but I do enjoy listening to being telling the stories. I like when they're serious about it, like youtubers that don't want to fetishize it or anything.
Now to me, I get into fanfictions, and sometimes I just want to read something dark and emotionally draining. it's usually when I need a good cry and to feel sick to my stomach. I'd call it the 'yandere' section of fanfics. where me, the female lead, the lead character I'm reading as, is the obsession of the romantic interest. they either kill to get me, or kill for me, or whatever. I always thought it was a fantasy that was the opposite of what i'd want in real life, but still toeing that line. I want someone to love me so much that they'd kill for me (metaphorically). (but I don't necessarily want to be kidnapped and controlled).
I think your kinks or 'dirty' fantasies are just the opposites of what you want in real life.
In fantasies and smut I read, it's some objectification and degrading, but in real life I'd punch someone in the throat for even thinking of doing that.
I've read stories where women are subjected and abused, by government or lovers, and I'll read it all the way through. But if that every happened to me, if I ever found myself in a world like that, i'd die before I'd ever let someone make me a slave.
It's like experiencing horrible things, but in a safe place that you control and can stop at any time. Like watching horror movies to feel scared but for the rush and immediate notion you are safe. (at least in the fictional aspect of things). (i think true crime makes it seem too much like a 'story' instead of 'this is a true thing that happened' and some people can't separate fantasy from reality.)
excited to watch this!! i made a similar video recently so im always excited to see other people's commentary on the true crime genre
I didn’t get into true crime during lockdown but I did a rewatch of all seasons of Bones.. so idk if that counts
My true crime phase consisted of BuzzFeed unsolved and Wikipedia lists of people who disappeared mysteriously. I loved the intrigue, the obsessional nature of theorists and researchers, and trying to put a plug in all the ambiguity with my own theories. With the dry factual tone of Wikipedia I could imagine the scene playing out any which way I liked. It could have been a sunny day, a misty evening, a pitch black night. All was well, nothing was suspicious, until suddenly everything went wrong. It was comforting for a girl who worked at Subway 8 hours a day 6 days a week, while I pinched every penny in pursuit of my own real escape: an international holiday that I believed would change everything.
Oh Leena, I would so love for you to post the Twilight video!
Leena we want that twilight video!
Have you read A Southern Bookclubs Guide to Killing Vampires, its about a bookclub who read a lot of true crime set in the 80s & 90s. In a lot of ways it felt like the opposite of a YA novel, instead of being about one teenage girl against the world, it was one middle age mom and her best friends against a man they new was bad news but couldnt convince any of the men around them until it was too late. Its a lot of fun.
Love the video, but ummm can we see the twilight video?!!
Validation, vindication of the narrative arc--also a great point. 🤔
Ah, I have wondered about this for quite some time - I spent mid-2019 to mid-2021 listening to all of the episodes of My Favorite Murder and watched several Netflix true crime mini-series. In a weird way, I got it out of my system during that period, because for the past year I have had very little desire to jump back into true crime. But what exaclty was that "it" that made me obsessed with true crime for two years - I'm not really sure... I really liked all of your reflections!
Yes I identify with only dipping in for periods and 'getting it out of your system'. It's definitely an interest that is cyclical for me.
I want the twilight vid please
I've watched 12 true crime series in may so far. I feel like for me it's a lot of education, I like the psychology behind it, and I like the history and find it really interesting seeing how the investigation went wrong and how easy it would be for it to happen again. I'm looking for statistics of the likely hood of walking past a murderer / serial killer if anyone knows. As an ex sex worker I'm aware I've met multiple (through things they did to me) and so I know that statistics can skew but yeah I find it interesting.
I also think there's a component of trauma healing in there. It has to be completely awful for me to believe it - I don't watch much that isn't depressing because it's like a bad quality film of pigs flying. The lack of pain and trauma makes it feel unbelievable. So being able to have the pain helps me get into it, but also most of the time the bad person gets punished and goes to prison. That never happened for me, so I suppose murder, abduction, abuse films and series give me hope. I already know the bad stuff happens but the true crime helps me remember that they don't always get away.
I go in and out of watching true crime just because the darkness of the material begins to invade my head (esp. true of Forensic Files, which always ends up with me being bizarrely angry at the detectives and forensic pathologists, esp. when they talk about 'defeating evil.' Also, it seems like there are either extremely dumb criminals, which is only obvious to the viewer with the benefit of hindsight, or supermasterful serial killers, who we are supposed to admire in some way, and who must thwart law enforcement in order for their 'serialness' to be exposed. If feels like a tired trope that makes all women potential victims and exhalts the criminal. I liked the quote you read at the end, that kindness, nay even boredom are the norm and we often take it for granted. That's good to remember.
This was such a deep and thought provoking video. ❤️
The video I was literally waiting for!
I've always been more interested in fictional crime shows (I was absolutely obsessed with Criminal Minds) and it was definitely a mix of anxiety (seeing everything get wrapped up and the problem solved and the bad thing both validated and defeated) and also a fascination with something that just doesn't happen where I'm from. But now that I have a child I just can't watch it any more because so much harm happens to kids on those shows and it really upsets me.
I too started delving into the world of True Crime over lockdown (and I was weirdly obsessed with Ashes to Ashes and Life on Mars when I was about 14) so a lot of this video resonated with me. I totally agree that I think my fascination with true crime is all about it being preventative and just presuming at some point I will need to know "what not to do."
(If anyone wants a true crime podcast recommendation, check out Redhanded!)
Can’t recommend American Vandal enough - such a good parody of the true crime genre but also functions as a genuine mystery show
This was really interesting!!
I literally googled and bookmarked ‘how to spot a sociopath’ after watching The Tinder Swindler and The Puppet Master on Netflix!! I find that financial scamming/life manipulating true crime scares me more, so knowing the signs of a sociopath seemed to give me a greater feeling of control in case I end up in a friendship or relationship with one of them😂
I loved James O'Brien's How to be right, it was so good !!!
His show is also a podcast, would recommend, he takes some really interesting calls and is pretty fair in the way he conducts debates, definitely would love to be more like him in the way I approach things.
Love this video so much that I'm going to need to watch it again immediately
So 👏 damn 👏 interesting! 👏 I don’t love true crime but feel like you’ve also kind of explained some of what is going on when me and friends rewatch the most tragic Louis Theroux docs and people who keep telling me they can’t stop watching Johnny Depo and Amber Heard testimonies? They both have those elements of solving a mystery/is someone properly evil here or what can I do to avoid ending up with this kind of situation.
I'm not a fan of true crime but I cannot recommend the book The Five more. It is about the canonical 5 ripper victims, and it is centred on changing the victorian narratives about the victims.
Yes I've seen that one about and never sure whether to pick it up!
It was a standout read of 2020 for me too. Very interesting focus on the victims and their lives, rather than on their killer. Made me reassess a lot of what I thought I knew about women’s lives but also gave a lot of historical context.
My theory about why people like serial killers is pretty much the same as why people are attracted to villains or monster men, and that's that the level of danger is clear, as opposed to other men. Any man you meet could be anything between a literal saint or an axe murderer or worse and even if most are decent you won't know for sure at least until you know him well. But with a villain or a monster at least you know from the start exactly what their nefarious intentions are and you don't have to have the anxiety and apprehension of not knowing. And maybe additionally it's a relief to be allowed to express fear and distrust without risking unjustifiably insulting a person. Like I'm already scared that a man could kill or otherwise hurt me, but I'm not generally allowed to express that feeling unless they are a known killer or fictional bad guy.
I agree with everything you’ve said. Gosh I already commented a lot in the comment section, ( I know, sad. So many women having this shared collective trauma. Ugh) but yes. The unexpected kind of evil, are the worst.
My favourite radio presenter is John Hockenberry.
A. I wonder if the obsession with boys not liking you is a purity culture thing. I was never "boy-crazy," but SO preoccupied with the fact that they didn't.
B. Every couple of months I wake up and have days where I binge podcasts about cults and then don't think on it again for ages. I wonder if that is a post-Christianity thing...
I periodically do the same thing with cult doco's. I escaped a cult so I think it is for me, as a previous poster put it, placebo closure. It is definitely not because I want to relive any of it. I often wonder if it makes things better or worse 🤷
I watch/listen to Bailey Sarian for Bailey Sarian, lol, most of the content isn't that important, though I'm really really loving her Dark History podcast. I just really like her presenting personality
Yes I agree her Dark History gets in to the systemic issues much more, and so well produced!!!
Getting multiple degrees in Criminology and Criminal Justice mostly just taught me that poor and desperate people are the most penalized of systemic conditions. I still enjoy "true crime" but in reality its like any other media. It's stories, not necessarily true or untrue. It's drama but with the added insidiousness of supposedly being real characters who lived in this world once. Most of the time these people aren't even known as anything other than the victim or perpetrator of said crime. I find white collar crime to be a bit more fascinating. Probably why I've been binging Corporate Casket and similar shows here on UA-cam.
I've gotten to a point with true crime where I only want to hear about financial crimes, and ones without physical harm done to others at that; it just feels so icky otherwise
I've only seen half of the video yet but did you ever do a breakdown video of the twilight saga?! I don't know if you did or if i missed it but i'd love if you'd share more of your thoughts on it like you did with "the hunger games"
ALSO!! YOU LOVE "THE HOST" which is in your (and my) opinion superior to twilight so i'd love a video on that as well.
Okay i just realized this feels like i'm at a restuarant and you're the server and i'm just listing off things from a menu like "yes i want this and this and this and do you have this?" 🤣
Hallie Rubenhold's Bad Women: The Ripper Retold was a really nice antidote for me to the true crime genre, which honestly gives me hives. Something you didn't really have space in the video to touch on is also that the million-dollar industry often makes all of this money off the suffering of the most marginalised who continue to be marginalised. Sex workers, drug users, and precariously housed people (runaways, people dealing with homelessness) are the most common victims of serial killers. They are still intensely criminalised populations who are made vulnerable to this violence by the wrongs of a moralistic capitalist state that benefits from a prison industrial complex. True crime also, even in showing the bumbling police officer, upholds prison as a necessary tool for "controlling" these outliers in society. The police "must" exist because SOMEONE has to be trying to solve the crime. And police officers who do a "good job" are lauded as heroes. True crime teaches us that the ultimate form of justice is a life sentence or a death sentence. It also teaches us that you can make a lot of money narrating other people's misery while providing no material gain to those affected by such tragedies (or advocating for societal change). I have honestly been left with the feeling that the white women who hold the power in true crime don't particularly care for systemic change or transformative justice.
Very interesting topic, something to think about
I'm not at all obsessed with serial killers. Maybe when I was 13 but it was only one. Manson. The part that was most fascinating is how so many couldn't believe attractive young women could be so heinous, but would believe it easily if one was less attractive or 'ugly'. Humanity.
I am obsessed with the crimes conducted by our governing body's secret services, sometimes colluding with those that we are at war with... Makes me feel like we have no real power in anything because it is all financial power driven boats heading for waterfalls while some of us see our heading, all grab oars and paddle maddeningly, but those paddles don't even reach the feckin water. I am also obsessed with trying to figure out how to live in a system that I see as a construct built to serve those that are benefiting most, and one can't even opt out to live as they would because you know, money, and 'being a part' is essential for survival. And I'm obsessed by the lack of justice for the trillions that are murdered and abused every year just because someone feels it is their choice to eat them or wear their parts, or drink their excretions --- How did I even land on this planet? So I don't really have time for horror movies or serial killer obsessions.
Yeah it's that kinda week.
En France on a notre "true crime" nationale avec "l'affaire Grégory Villemin", un petit garçon qui a été assassiné dans les années 80, dans les Vosges (c'est assez glauque et surtout très tragique). Arte avait fait une série de reportages sur l'enquête et ce qu'était devenu la famille après la mort de l'enfant. C'était plutôt bien fait, mais je ne pouvait m'empêcher de penser "mais laissez les en paix. Ils ont vécu l'enfer, laissez les tranquille". Des fois ce genres de podcast/reportage/vidéo me mettent assez mal à l'aise surtout quand c'est des affaires non résolu, je ne peux m'empêcher de penser à la famille.