Raymond Tallis - Events and the Nature of Time
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
- Are events measured by time? Or is time created by sequences of events? Which is more fundamental, events or time? Worse, we may get different answers from quantum mechanics and general relativity.
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Raymond C. Tallis is a a retired physician and neuroscientist from Great Britain. His resume boasts titles like philosopher, poet and novelist. He is also a member of the Academy of Medical Sciences, the Royal College of Physicians and Royal Society of Arts.
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Closer to Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
I love these short videos. Gives enough material to think about and search online for additional information. Keep it coming.
What’s with all the background noise?
Wow. This conversation was incredible. One of my favorite CTT ever. Robert you are an extremely sharp philosopher👍
The most fundamental ingredients of our universe are immaterial like Time, gravity, frequency, vibrations, waves , consciousness, etc.
Matter is just an emergent property of immaterial things.
@@dongshengdi773 I agree, but even then - I believe all those immaterial things must also be reduced to something more fundamental. This is where I believe the observer comes into play
Robert is not that sharp. At 7:24, Robert thinks this guy is a presentist and he's wrong where Raymond corrects him on this. Over seven minutes is a long time to get the wrong view of time from the person you're interviewing on time.
@@irrelevant2235 no, those are just the common criticisms of ray and his work. He's just citing them back to him then back to him and letting him give his rebuttal. To those criticism and mischaracterizations.
Raymond Tallis used simple logic and commonsense to state that time is real and important. It's not a counter-intutive concept.
Time is real with links a experience. However he shows past and presente are real his evidente are wrong. Present time than past are ilusion . Conscieness past was lost and presente conscieness are picture imperfect reality.
@@maxwellsimoes238 Even if time is linked to experince and our consciousness of the past is a picture of an "imperfect reality"; it is still a reality of the past that is shared and believed in by many in the present. True or false its still 'real' that, that past is part of our reality in the present. Tallis did say illusions are not thought of, as affecting the many.
The most fundamental ingredients of our universe are immaterial like Time, gravity, frequency, vibrations, waves , consciousness, etc.
Matter is just an emergent property of immaterial things.
@@maxwellsimoes238 Just like to add that Maurice Halbwachs has wrote something you may find interesting on social memory in his book 'Collective Memory' (1980). He was a sociologist.
Time is just a measurement we created. It is like the number one. It doesn't exist, but we use them to make sense of the world around us and the rest of the universe.
This is the kind of philosophical edging I can get behind. Great video.
Words were said, and they mostly sounded smart and meaningful. Good enough for me!
Superb discussion.
This was an amazing conversation that leaves me thinking I with I could understand so many concepts at once. Time needs a capital letter :)
From start to end the man was talking utter nonsense.
Time is a concept only.
Agreed! Wow...such lovely discourse!
The idea of causal influences from 'now to before' is mind-boggling, but the evidence is strong.
Natural Functions & thermodynamic systems ... proves the Universe & Life were unnaturally made by an intelligence ( like Man).
Only an intelligence ( like Man) makes makes, maintains, improves, fine tunes abstract & physical FUNCTIONS that all have clear & obvious processes, purpose, form, properties & design.
A Function ... is simply a System that processes inputs into outs ... with clear purpose, form, properties & design.
All Functions ... possess & require ... INFORMATION in order to exist & to function.
To prove a soul/spirit & a God ... using the Laws of Nature & the sciences ... you must show a CAUSAL link to a natural phenomena and/or demonstrate something ( eg God) belongs to a category or classification that was defined from natural phenomena ( eg Man).
Man is the only known intelligence in the Universe where everything including Man ... is an abstract (time, space, Laws of Nature ) or physical (matter, energy) Function.
Time is an abstract Function from the Mind of an Intellgence for measuring "existence"
Physical Time ... using physical clocks ... is a physical Function from the mind of an intelligence .. and measures the existence of the physical ( matter & energy).
Does the fluidity of past, present and future indicate continuity of time? Time can be broken up as small or as large as can because infinitesimal?
Time is constant. The past is a memory. The future hasn't happened. Neither gravity or velocity changes the passing of Time.
Are we talking about a continuous stream of events in the direction of causality, the latter possibly affected by agency (if you believe in that)? The past would then be a prerequisite for the now and the now for the future. [edit:rephrase] The now would be a set of events, the "now" set, that our brains deem relevant for our perceived "present" experience. [edit:addition] Events that caused events in the "now" set are in the past, events caused by events in the "now" set are in the future. Naturally, events that have a space-like interval with events in an observer's "now" set, will only be known by that observer once they relate to or cause events in a "now" set that is further down in the observer's stream of causality (future).
I seem to recall reading somewhere that, in proper time, humans understand causal events that take longer than 150 ms to occur as "before" and "after." At around 150 ms, subjects perceive the events as "now." Events that occur in less than 150 ms confuse the subject, who may perceive events in reverse order. Of course, time is much more complicated than our naïve perception of it.
our level of now is an approximation of the exact now, since we're limited by our perception precision...
exact now, as a concept, seems to be dependent on both space and energy and all three seem to require oneanother to exist...
@@ROForeverMan what makes you think that...
The present is where we make tomorrows' memories of yesterday. It would seem that only the experience of memory is real. Entropy = Time
Jack, but it happens now
@@evinkleinman6052 You can never hear yourself say now in the present, you remember it. You can think of it in the present plan to say it in the future and remember it it your past,,,or not.
@@thejackdiamondart it is still now though
☺️👍🤡
I’ve been quite partial to the block universe view of time, but Dr Tallis has completely shaken up my thinking.. very refreshing. Thank you RLK
What I'm missing here is the 'C' word - consciousness. Particularly after hearing Donald Hoffman on a recent Lex Fridman podcast saying that spacetime is the product of consciousness, and not the other way around. Would love to hear Raymond Tallis commenting on that!
There is a possibility that consciousness "activates" the wave function, thereby stringing together many possible points into a kinetic, synergistic way.
@@stoictraveler1 Over 20 years have passed since Penrose and Hameroff came up with the Orch-OR theory, that quantum events within the microtubules inside neurons are responsible for consciousness. Never debunked, the theory has open a host of new doors to understanding what consciousness could be.
@@MichaelDembinski There is no such 'thing' as consciousness.
Being conscious is a process.
Process is an abstract notion.
Neural discharge frequencies encode analogies.
(See how sense organs work to get a grip on the concept).
The mind is a hundred billion analogies jostling each other synaptically.
Synapses are a logic mechanism.
It is the self who is conscious.
The self is an analogy.
Being an analogy is what permits other analogies to affect it.
Almost everywhere I wrote 'analogy'
you could substitute the word 'thought'.
Doing so may help your understanding of this comment.
It is the modulations impressed upon the self by thoughts that
are of what the self is conscious.
Theoretically speaking, naturally.
@@REDPUMPERNICKEL Here we go - competing models of consciousness! THIS should be the cutting edge of philosophical inquiry... I'd posit that consciousness is fundamental to the Universe, even more so than matter or energy. How and why? This, I intuit, is where to begin reconciling the Spiritual with the Scientific. I'd certainly hold that consciousness is non-local; not a mere epiphenomenon, an emergent property of biological evolution. The awareness that "I AM" is the key; being conscious of being conscious - in this time, in this place, in this body - this time round, on the infinitely long journey from Zero to One.
2:26 secs, the big bang and the subsequent symmetry breaking once understood can lead to the understading of the set for protoplanets and their time delineations, as well as the time delineations for flesh suits... the templates from progenitor kosmoses (this komos took some thought to make, intellegence is an aspect of its being) come into play, as there is more than one kosmos in existence.
The most fundamental ingredients of our universe are immaterial like Time, gravity, frequency, vibrations, waves , consciousness, etc.
Matter is just an emergent property of immaterial things.
Time, frequency, vibrations, waves and consciousness are abstract notions.
(I don't know about gravity).
None of those abstract notions can exist absent a material substrate.
"Immaterial things" is a concise contradiction.
It would be difficult to perform a play- script without a setting and a sequence of events.
6:30 location, DURATION, and order. How is duration not considered time?
Time only measures CURRENT existence. Man uses time to measure a duration of existence.
So the sensations (in this case, things of high value or relevance) of particular past memories only project future potential outcomes? And the past can't change but the present can change the past, therefore the future potential can be altered but only if the present conditions contradict with past decisions?
It's so interesting topic and Ray is right that time is real though the 3d of time that he's seen is different from that Einstein's perceived - time and space are interchagible, and accordingly 3d-time has been here proposed to help to understand time, the most common reality of the physical , the mental and the mathematical.
Is time a list of events written on an elastic sheet (or cube).
But if one part is faster than another where is the average without measuring them all?
Is there a Time Standard to measure all others by? That is equivalent to a place called "Datum". IMHO yes.
Proper time measures the observer's viewpoint. Any other time is relative to the observer's view.
@@drbuckley1 So it's all arbitrary. We don't have the ability to look from under the curtain of the heavens as in that old woodcut.
@@greggweber9967 We can only explain that which we can directly or indirectly observe. The unobservable is inexplicable, in other words.
@@drbuckley1 Imagine Galileo's patron saying that there are no soldiers way over there and then looking through his telescope and seeing them.
Might be interaction of energy component and time component of wave function squared into quantum probabilities is event of future time? Which then gets measured into present time (free will causation?)
Time is in the mind...because we are conscious being and see changes in and around us...
How do you explain aging? Time is physical and tangible thing just like matter
Time is change
@@ROForeverMan god/aging/dreams just ideas in consciousness. Consciousness an idea in consciousness. No end.
@@ROForeverMan Help us all understand our shoe size (ness). What would suffice as proof? How does conscious relate to consciousness. Is ness- Loch- greater than non- nessness?
Present time moves into future? Can put together as many present times as like while continuously move into future?
Sequncing can involve nodes that are reversible, but not all thee way to the last node... reversability is something that e8, and also something that certian kinds of complexity/randomness can handle.
You had breakfast before you had lunch? Is time the fundamental factor there or is the unified sense of self the main factor? Perhaps the linguistic self?
Language is a curious thing. From a glossary of less than a hundred thousand words a narrative can be brought to bear on the vast reaches of consciousness. If only reality were so simple.
It happens in language that from a few prior word one can guess the words to come. Is this ability to predict the next word all there really is to time? If so of what does this predictive ability consist? I can only think of two: rhyming and familiarity with context.
If we are to examine time through language, what are the conscious phenomena of time that could possibly conform to rhyming and context? A sundial does have context. But what would be the sign of rhyme?
Rhyme is not just the product of what comes before. It is also meter, pace, tempo and a limiting set of results determined by a particular word or standard of meter. I am hard put to find an example of time representing rhyme it could be time travel. It does not seem inconceivable that paradoxical things are a source of rhyming time, but there must be more to this.
Or is rhyming time inference and forms of will?
Fundamentally for a system to proceed, there must be _algorithm_ and _context,_ or rules and state. Pattern, or rhyme, is mental, often discrete _abstraction_ on the _observation_ of algorithm plus context. Time is _one level further_ abstracted -- that is, time is abstraction of pattern, which in turn is abstraction of observation, which further is abstraction of nature. Technically every level past nature is abstraction, which can be analysed for pattern and hence may be given probabilistic prediction.
@@FalseCogs What a cacophony of words. All mental. The linguistic mind has you tied in knots 🪢. I'm afraid reality has less to do with words and more to do with urges. Utterless, meaningless, urges that we jealously call survival, but it is not survival. It is not a necessary, imperative it is just an imperative, like eating and drinking.
Time is an unnecessary word. Compared to avarice, gluttony and lust it is almost prudish.
No mastery of time excuses any immorality. Time without judgement? Nope. Time must bend its knee to justice and surrender its constant equivocating. Time must free beauty and resist symmetry. It must reveal the truth and stop hiding the hidden context.
My time is when I calm my brain with closer to truth and similar episodes. What more ? Correct calculations with different pressures of gravity and speed. Maybe someone's can read quantum fluctuations and predict something. I don't know ...just a parameter ?
He just quantum mechanics in laymen terms with is explanation of time. Now as a pregnant moment explains quantum mechanics because we cannot observe what how matter is behaving in the now moment because it is hidden. The future is what may happen and the past is what has already been recorded.
I've been watching the dialogue about time
ever since I've posted this post in a Facebook Philosophy group :
Time doesn't exist
only - artificial and natural - clocks exist
Posted just about some three years ago - watch videos that are younger than 2/1/2-3 three years...
I had edited the Facebook post just about a couple minutes after I've had posted
The original quote:
Time doesn't exist
only clocks exist
And I must say
the talk about Time has liven up within the science world... 🙂
A theoretical physicist professor from Columbia University has said much about it...
And of course time warps
and that's only because space/clocks ("spacetime") bends...
I've also solved the Free Will question...
space can't be shaken off either, but it's apparently emergent also. Our conception of space and time is just a product of our senses. It's "universal" because other humans have the same senses and neural processing. It might be interesting to compare notes with an octopus.
Even the universal experience varies among humans. You get excited and time flies, you are bored and the moments drag by. Get stoned and your experience of time changes the sound of the music you are listening to. Obviously our experience of time is unreliable other than that events happen in order. It would be interesting to experience what time is like to an octopus or a tree.
If an octopus had a language that enabled evolution of a self concept
then an octopus might be conscious and
so may chance upon the invention of the temporal concept.
But as far as I know,
octopi are not groupish like we humans and
so have no need for language and so
are unlikely to need a self concept which is what is conscious and
so are unlikely to have invented the temporal concept.
Theoretically speaking, naturally.
"out of a series of illusions, mobilizing illusory objects and illusory subjects, we arrive at the truth. i find that a rather extraordinary claim."
im not sure if this is a good argument or not, but GODDAMN it's compelling. so i'm just sticking it here for posterity
My “now” is “this lifetime”.
That's the fattest now available to you.
We can completely reduce time and even eliminate it in physics. We can also reduce it as a human sense like color or touch. But not just every mammal has a sense of time in order to move and gather food. Even birds, amphibians and reptiles have time sense. Simpler life forms like plants and insects instinctively react but have no conscious time sense or we can argue the evolution of time sense and consciousness are the same.
I think calculus pretty much requires figuring out the rate of change over time. Any theory that explains cause and effect implicitly depends upon time.
@@ROForeverMan Time measures the rate of change. No time, no change.
No you can. Abiogenesis & Evolution are complete BS.
Everything in the Universe .. is an abstract or physical FUNCTION made by an intelligence ( like Man).
A machine is a physical Function composed of Functions.
We all know that nature & natural processes can never make or evolve the simplest machine.
The three types of physical machines are mechanical, electrical & molecular ( LIFE ).
Again. Nature can never make a machine ... because a machine is a FUNCTION .. with set form, processes, purpose, properties & DESIGN.
Time, space, & the Laws of Nature are abstract Functions from the Mind of an Intelligence.
Matter & Energy are physical Functions from the Mind of an Intelligence.
All Functions ... possess & require ... INFORMATION from the mind of an intelligence ... to exist & to function.
Time simply measures a current existence.
Only an intelligence uses time to measure a DURATION of existence.
Only an intelligence makes physical Functions measure the DURATION of a physical existence.
Whether abstract or physical, Time comes from the mind of an intelligence.
In the beginning (time) ... God ( an intelligence) ... created the Heavens (space) and the Earth ( matter & Energy) ... and ... a BIG LIGHT of all the energy & matter of the Universe to be formed over 4 days.
It was only on Day 4, after God made the Solar system & set Earth into its orbit ... was the Earth Day, month year began.
Again. Only an intelligence uses time ... to measure DURATION of existence.
15 mins, mass adressing by on volumetrics is also possible, such that decay processes can be controlled, like making synchronicities via the 4d, so too can particles decays be controlled. imagine somebody predicting seemingly the outcome of an atomic collision, its doable.
Time from one point ,it's like a movie with all the alternative possibilities of stories and actions ,there is always a playback point at every point going forward with a playback speed always where our present is one of all possible frame, from that point next frame can be next possible farme out of many, mind is a static state but a force looks up to next state emerges as experience of changing , a force that pushes our mind to let us travel through those event frames. we leave one definite trail of frames of events as past out of upcoming indefinite events. There is much more complexity in events they happen in orders not entirely random, events are trade off from future events and past making a elegant coincidental events and more.
I am wondering if perhaps our "world line" can, like a movement over a checkers board, can easily jump to a position back too but how would we know? We are a slightly different younger person there. Perhaps we even might sometimes "freeze" in a position but that too is not recorded.
Please interview Physicists working on Chronon Field Theory, like Prof Sam Vaknin. These physicists are taking Occam's Razor to Physics.
I think the only thing I disagree with him on is the concept that temporal awareness has circularity, tstamp 12:49 I think the hinge is at the midpoint of a linearity, always moving into future, at different rates {dependent on local space time}, but always in one direction.
At the end he describes exactly what GPS does and says science cannot do it, how did he miss that?
I don't think that "now" has a duration. I think it's more a matter of how we perceive time than what time actually is. The minimum perceived duration will be limited be our neural processing speed and the ability of our senses to capture external events. Even so I think it also depends on where the attention is focused. For instance, listening to music. If you are paying attention to the notes then things are happening fast so the individual durations will seem short. If you are paying attention to the grand sweep of the overall piece then the notes blend into larger extended structures that have a lot more duration.
If time is linearly abstracted change, and if change is tendency, then measuring time is sampling tendency, which naturally has a sample size. In theory, if we knew the full algorithm, then a single, infinitesimal snapshot would suffice, without need for duration.
@@ROForeverMan If time is truly continuous, then samples may exist in ever smaller sizes. _Sample size_ is a chosen quantity, not to imply the existence of a limit.
@@ROForeverMan If you are talking about the independent essence of time, I suppose it may not allow for samples to be taken. In practice, we may be limited to observable changes in specific phenomena only. A similar argument might be made for any spacial dimension, in that the raw dimension, without observable effects, may be both immeasurable and unobservable.
On the other hand, if you are talking about the _concept_ of time, as a mental phenomenon, then the very idea of sampling may be undefined. As for dimensions, measurement may require an effect -- unless you can access the host of the simulation, so as to read the substrate. If the brain is to be rejected as the host of the mind, then no accepted substrate may be available for reading.
10:52 secs, I feel that the future is determined by choice values which can be altered. You model organic and inorganics by weakly bounded curves. the learning structures for both can be groked by studying both of them. for formless, those are a bit more elusive, and the Navy works with spiritual machines atm. there IS formless awareness that is coherent.
Wrong on all counts.
Time is a concept only.
And we just experienced all of their past nows later in time. This video is a great example of everything they were discussing. Ironic.
Can there be subjective awareness without time?
Time is about how events are related among other events, and this, as space, can not be truly and discretely quantized. Space is about geometries in time.
The discrete now also doesn't exist, the now is an evolving flow of dimensional connections between events.
14:52 But of course that's the reason why we have engineering or build mechanisms and electronic circuits. Things get connected in physical time in man made mechanisms as well as biological systems.
Do quantum probabilities make sense without time?
QM classicalized in 2010: Juliana Mortenson website Forgotten Physics uncovers the ‘hidden variables ‘ and the bad math of Wien, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, Planck, Einstein, Debroglie,Bohr etc.
If yesterday is gone, and the future hasn’t happened yet, where did reality dissolve into in the past-And from whence does reality come from in the future ? If the future is empty , you would think reality would continue to unfold in front of us like a tidal wave
I think physics is descriptive of what time is doing but we don't yet understand time well enough to derive exactly what it is.
Time is change
@@ROForeverMan In terms of subjective experience, I agree that time is just another building block which our consciousness uses to construct a reality. Much like the concept of colour. What physicists are interested in is, 'what is time in objective reality (assuming there is an objective reality)'? Personally, I am still attracted to the Minkowski spacetime 'block universe' idea, or some kind of transformation of it.
@@ROForeverMan Then what provides structure to our subjective experience? i.e. What is fundamental?
@@ROForeverMan A test for objective reality anyone can do, {although I don't recommend this methodology, I do think it's reliable}, if there is no objective reality then it should be safe to stand on a highway if you believe that you are safe from being ran over, if it does exist then it doesn't matter what you believe you are going to eventually be ran over. Go for it, let me know the results, if you can.
@@ROForeverMan The very fact that it doesn't matter what a person believes it is dangerous to play in traffic is an indication of an objective reality, if reality was not objective it wouldn't affect all the same, and not be a demonstrable event. But it is a fact if you doubt that it is objectively dangerous in reality to play in traffic, try it.
Is time experienced at quantum level?
The relentless march of entropy and it’s unabated appetite.
9:05 secs, but see the event involving a ufo and a cessna off the coast in the channel islands, the ufo appeared, the cessna was downed in the channel, the pilot and passenger died, but then suddenly after dying found themselves on top of the water, the ufo gone, and the cessna later to be found at the bottom of the channel. if true (history channel ufo hunters), that means that out to some radius the events spaces can be manipulated, like a sim.
I believe the thickness of time, or of the now, is the amount of forward and backward causality in the quantum field soup. Despite great arguments for eternalism I'm currently a presentist clearly
Time travelling and teleportation are physically unconditional phenomena equally as the free existence of the universe itself.
Thank you for your pointless comment.
@@ROForeverMan
Physically unconditional means “something out of nothing”. If that is possible then anything else is as long as it is favourable to life.
Rajendra T / A big BS.
This made me think suddenly that in a closed chamber with molecules flying around at constant temperature, nothing changes. Molecules are bouncing forth and back forever, that's all. I already noticed in an empty universe, time seems not to exist but in this sealed container neither. Of course in the real world the container rusts or oxidizes and temperature is hard to keep constant.
The sooner one acknowledges the fact that
'time' is a purely psychological phenomenon
derived entirely from thoughts about moving objects,
the sooner one will be able to realize exactly how
matter is entirely responsible for our being conscious.
And there's no appeal to 'magic' in the explanation.
Physicist Carlo Rovelli clarifies our understanding of time in some excellent
UA-cam videos).
As for the relationship between mind an matter one has merely to
learn a little biology, neurology, chemistry, physics, linguistics,
the history of civilization and read two books...
Julian Jaynes',
"The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind"
and Douglas Hofstadter's,
"Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid"
and the answer to one's fundamental nature
will be answered to one's complete satisfaction
given a little imagination
(and a hint to pay extraordinary attention to the meaning of the word 'metaphor').
And one will know that one knows that the answer is the right one.
Once one has the answer one will hold it as self evident.
@@ROForeverMan
And yet you'd dodge a bullet
if you could because
that particular idea will kill you
if it hits you in the head.
This guy is really smart and fun to listen to. One place that I think he is off track is imagining that events are real things in nature. Singling out a particular moment in time and space is a subjective exercise, so it isn't a solid foundation for any theory.
I would agree that science can not single out a particular moment in time and space as special. However I also agree that, as he explained at 1:35, time as it is experienced can not be denied. Therefor, I must accept that experience is beyond the reach of science.
@@Curious112233 We evolved to live in the middle sized world, so those things that happen at this level are easy for us to understand intuitively. Some phenomena can be understood a little by science, but most things are way beyond our primitive ape brains to comprehend. Unfortunately, we don't have anyone to compare ourselves to, so it's easy to believe that we are the smartest apes on the block.
Time measures only current "existence."
Man uses time to measure a DURATION of existence.
Everything in the Universe ... is an abstract ( time, space, Laws) or physical (matter, energy) Function.
Natural Functions & thermodynamic systems proves the Universe & Life were UNNATURALLY made by an intelligence ( like Man).
In the beginning ( time) God ( an intelligence) created the Heavens( space) and the Earth ( matter, energy) and then said "Let there be light" which was all the energy & matter of the Universe that will be made over 4 days.
It was on Day 4 that God made the Solar system, set Earth into orbit and defined the Earth Day, month, year & seasons.
God originally created Man to live forever so there were no Laws of Physics during Creation. God had a reason for a 6 day creation & the 7th Day will be His Day ... when He instantly made the space, earth and all the energy & matter of the Universe to come ... on Day 1. It was on Day 4 that God set the Earth Day & seasons.
God knew the future .. of Man ... and that he will fall & bring decay & death to all of Creation. And that it will take 6 x 1000 years of Man's rule & 1000 years of God's rule ... for all the Children of God to be pro-Created by Man. The current Jewish year since Creation is 5782 and most religions Jews believe they are living in end times when their promised Messiah will appear to save them. Meanwhile Jesus Christ(Son of God) over 1900 years ago was prophesied in the New Testament to return for a 1000 year reign before Judgement Day.
Again. Time is an abstract Function ... from the mind of an intelligence ... for measuring existence.
Only an intelligence uses time ... to measure a DURATION ... of existence.
Only an intelligence ... makes physical Functions ( Clocks) to measure the DURATION of a physical existence.
And only an Almighty God would deliberately create everything in 6 days .. then reserve the 7th day for Himself.
@@ROForeverMan I really hate it when people say something like this. It's like saying that the self is an illusion. If I put you in a cage, you will absolutely know that the self exists because it can't get out. If you say that your brain does not exist, how about we do a lobotomy on the imaginary brain? No? So maybe what you are saying is nonsense and silly. As if that isn't dumb enough, imagining a free floating consciousness instantiating matter is pure mysticism and fantasy. It wouldn't even qualify as science fiction. Why do you waste your time with such frivolity?
@@ROForeverMan Well talk to Sam Harris about that. My brain is an evolved physical structure, so it is definitely there and real. My self is that which is writing this comment, so it's definitely a thing, although, at the moment I die, everything that was me will still be there, except my self, so maybe it was never there in the first place.
Time needed to move through space, from past to present to future?
I feel event spaces, out to some radius, can be manipulated by reversability...
Wow. Tgis
What if we define time as the distance between cause and result of an event?
Time is the constant forward progression of our reality. We use time to establish the duration between events, not the other way around. 👍
@@ROForeverMan if you mean being aware of our reality , time is fundamental.
You just explained exactly how we already define time silly
@@ROForeverMan Time is the constant forward progression of Reality - regardless if we are here or not. So no, not just and idea in consciousness.
@@ROForeverMan the fact that optical illusions do exist, does not mean that time isn't real. Maybe you just don't understand what time is, or the difference between our present, the past and the potential future. The idea that time isn't real makes no sense and seems silly.
4d existence can go hand in hand with e 8 geometry, and also see klee irwin, and verticie mathing, infinite accuracy and precision abous in many fomrs...
But this is all based on the convention of linear time - the "experience" of linear time. Not all cultures experience linear time. What would be your response to the experience of cyclical time, for example? And is one, therefore, more "real" than the other?
Even cyclical time has a linear to an individual in said culture. No?
Time is an abstract Function from an intelligence that continuously measures current existence. You can not go back or forward in time.
Only an intelligence can use instances of time ... to measure the DURATION of existences.
Only an intelligence .... makes abstract & physical Functions ... to measure the DURATION of a "physical" existence.
Space is an abstract Function from an intelligence ... that determines the DIMENSIONS of the existence.
Matter & energy are physical Functions from an intelligence with set processes, form, properties, purpose & design ( INFORMATION) for an existence ( space) with 3 dimensions.
And the Laws of Nature/Physics are abstract Functions from an intelligence ... describing common INFORMATION from various types of physical ( matter & energy) functions.
Again. Time comes from the mind of an intelligence and simply measures the current existence. Only an intelligence makes abstract & physical Functions ... to use instances of time ... to measure the DURATION of physical existence.
God had a reason for the 6 day creation & 6 7th Day will be for Him, for saying in the Bibles "1 day is like 1000 years" & that Jesus ( Son of God) will return for a 1000 year reign before Judgement Day.
Natural Functions & thermodynamic systems prove the Universe & Life were unnaturally made by an intelligence.
In the beginning ( time) ... God ( an intelligence) ... created the Heavens ( space) and Earth ( matter & energy) .. and ... BIG BRIGHT LIGHT (energy & Matter). On the 4th Day of Creation there were now stars in the Heavens( space) and then God made the Solar System & set Earth in its orbit ..... establishing the Earth Day, month, & year ... and the Seasons.
Again. Only an intelligence makes abstract & physical Functions ....including an instant of time to a duration of existence ( sec, minute, hour, day week, month, year).
6 days for Man
1 day for God.
1 day is like 1000 years.
The Messiah & Son of God returns for a 1000 year reign before Judgement Day.
And the the Jewish year since Creation is ... 5782.
God had a reason for the 6 day creation & the 7th Day will belong to Him.
It seems to me time is just the evolution of objects moving with respect to each other. ie, if there were no objects in the universe, then there would be no time.
Yes and one could add to that...
Time is the concept derived from the observation of
the evolution of objects moving with respect to each other.
What is fundamental? Tallis: "If we didn't have time as we experience it, physics wouldn't be possible."
Not just intelligence here but wisdom also.
"There is nothing in the physical world that would actually connect an event with a particular time."
Is this a citation of himself or does he quote someone different? Just curious.
Time is discrete in absolute frame of reference.
I think we're really dealing with two different senses of "time". One is the physical definition, as defined by physics. The other is the subjective phenomenology, as defined by human experience. The next question, is which one is more "fundamental"?
The physics (biology, neurology) view is the physical definition is fundamental, and the subjective sense of time is derivative (and illusory).
The subjective phenomenological centric argument, is that physics is just one description of reality. It sketches the most superficial, mechanical aspects of reality. The reductionism strips away the complexity, that is present in the actual phenomenological reality.
What is "the physical definition, as defined by physics"?
@@ROForeverMan you don't exist. You are just an idea in consciousness
@@ROForeverMan actually you are wrong. I have 19 1/2 Phds to be clear. My point was that you are not ACTUALLY a conscious being, but instead are a figment of my imagination. I am the conscious creature as far as my phenomenology is concerned.
Time and space are respectively the active and passive principles.
Time is a beat... baby.
Right Now! - van hagar
I'm convinced that changes in time result from changes in energy, and energy is more fundamental than time. Without a change in energy, there's no change in time.
Good, So how do you explain the arrow?
What is energy?
Time is change
@@xobx5340 I would say the forward arrow is an emergent property of causality, energy/heat, entropy/randomness, probability, evolution and the interaction of all the elements in the universe/multiverse. That is, there may have been a big bang as part of conformal cyclic cosmology. Since then, each interaction of the elements has had a result/outcome, and then each outcome interacted with another outcome, and so on and so forth. That is, all of those interactions were consistent with a forward arrow concept. This continued for billions of years and eventually resulted in human beings on Earth. In addition, there's no natural way to make entropy/energy reverse. As a result, humans experience entropy as a forward arrow in time. I am not a physicist, but I have recently taken an interest in these videos about time.
@@xenphoton5833 There are different definitions of energy. One definition is the ability to do work, force times displacement. I'm aware force has dimensions of time, but I kind of think time as humans experience it is a human concept/idea. As a result, I tend to think energy can be more fundamental than time, even though they may be closely and causally linked.
Tallis: "Now is a kind of hinge, a center of a circle of temporal awareness which I carry with me at any given time....My now is a very fat now." .
Followed by his criticism of the physicists perspective. Lol
Time in itself is an event. I agree. You cannot change the past. It shades the future.
How is time an event ?. Surely time is what happens between events.
the construction of sychrnicities are also a 4d event.
At 7:24, Robert thinks this guy is a presentist and he's wrong where Raymond corrects him on this. Over seven minutes is a long time to get the wrong view of time from the person you're interviewing on time.
Might not Dark matter, and dark energy be considered to be an interaction between 3d and also 4d, in that 4d is a substratum of a sorts in which mass manifestation, and other manifestations come into being... perhaps there is a ether of sorts for kosmoses to bask in as well.
Tallis: "truth supervenes on being, so the past must have some kind of being."
Great discussion, but - ugh! - who was playing basketball in the background?!? This got to be extremely irritating to listen to with headphones!
📣The things we call basics of quantum physics are actually so deeply rooted that we really can't prove their origins and back grounds 😖
Tallis: "the reason now shrinks in the gaze of psychology is the experiments are designed to so impoverish consciousness that it can be measured and looked at. Of course impoverished consciousness will have a dimensionless or tiny now but real everyday life has a great fat now - the now of this minute, of this day, even of this week sometimes."
Is physics not simply an accounting of what IS? Edit to also ask: isn’t math simply a tool to describe what already is? It’s the tool to explain the patterns of what has been rather than THE reason for everything. Math and physics are the interpretation of what is. They should not be confused with what awesomeness truly IS.
The expanding electrons do it all.” The Final Theory: Rethinking Our Scientific Legacy “, Mark McCutcheon for physics and ‘time.’
The creation of energy creates time, and the formation of senses for energy creates consciousness of time. The moment of 'now' is the creation of energy.
This energy creation is accelerating, and results in the human observation that the space-time membrane is currently accelerating in its creation and expansion (not due to stretching of space-time as this would change the cosmological constant). Also, the accelerating creation of energy is the cause of the forces and constants (and their re-creation) in nature, as F=ma, where m= to mass energy of the universe (E=mc^2), and where a = the acceleration of energy 'creation' that precedes it.
Currently this place is located, and exists in the 1st Singularity before the Big Bang, which still precedes our space-time & matter universe, and this results in the moment of 'NOW', as we conscious human beings can sense it as a flow in time, and science proves Senses sense Energy, and though all species (and cells) sense energy, we human beings can name and define it through self-consciousness.
@@ROForeverMan So based on your perception of energy, you don't exist, you must be an illusion, or just not made of energy. So what are you made of?
Tom K / You can't ever argue with an idiot.
Don't waste your time for nothing.
@@ROForeverMan I elaborated on my original perspective.
Nope. And intelligence ( like Man) created time, space, laws of nature, matter & energy.
Anything that has clear & obvious processes, form, purpose, design & properties ... is a Function ... made only by an intelligence ( like Man).
All Functions .. possess & require ... INFORMATION to exist & to function.
Time is an abstract function from an intelligence ... to measure existence.
Space is an abstract function from an intelligence ... to contain a 3 dimensional ( physical) existence.
Matter & energy are physical functions from an intelligence ... with set form, purpose, properties & design ( INFORMATION).
The Laws of Nature are abstract functions from an intelligence ... describing common INFORMATION from various types of physical ( matter & energy) Functions.
Only an intelligence can "created" time to measure(current) existence.
Only an intelligence can use time to measure the DURATION of physical ( matter & energy) existence.
Only an intelligence makes physical ( matter & energy) Functions to measure physical ( matter & energy) time & duration in a 3D space.
Universal Functions is the scientific explanation for Sir Issac Newton's Watchmaker Analogy over 300 years ago Classic Physics ... is ...... everything is an abstract ( time, space, Laws) or physical ( matter, energy). Science is all about discovering & understand all the types of Functions in the Physical Existence.
@@abelincoln8885 From my perspective, mankind did not create time, space-time, laws of nature, mathematics, nor matter & energy. Mankind senses these energies and puts names to them, as all information is an energy form, and what mankind senses are the patterns of stable and non-stable energies using science (to understand past energy relationships and to predict future ones). This is because mankind can sense the passage of time, and this is because 'time = energy,' and mankind has enhanced memory/recall of these energy relationships over and in time, relative to other species (saving this information in books of knowledge).
Intelligence is the intention and ability to sense these patterns of energy relationships and to apply creativity, logic and work ethic to implement these platonic energy relationships into physical existence via a creative mechanism we all inherently have (but generally don’t know how to optimize).
I don’t disagree with most of what you mentioned, it’s a matter of relative perspective, and sensing what is more fundamental in nature. Also appreciating that energies exist beyond our mental senses and current terminology.
see information and the kosmioc code. siddhis, can also be thought only, that is to say, a mere thought can bring things into existence, without anybody planning to do so.... like wind in the trees, or a leaf perfectly balanced, such that every jovial bounce is known ahead of time. forcing vs. going with the flow, the constancy of the eternal, plus the chaotic synchronization of variance in its best form, when combined create such beauty.
"Once upon a time"... I thought I understood English, I'm not so sure any more. I've listened to this three times now and I'm still confused 😕.
“The Final Theory: Rethinking Our Scientific Legacy “, Mark McCutcheon for answers: physics and ‘ time.’
"Time is an illusion." -Albert Einstein
According to theoretical physicist Carlo Rovelli, time is an illusion: our naive perception of its flow doesn't correspond to physical reality. Indeed, as Rovelli argues in The Order of Time, much more is illusory, including Isaac Newton's picture of a universally ticking clock.
Does time exist without space?
Time 'is' as space 'is' - part of a reference frame in which in ordered sequence you can touch, throw and eat apples.
Time cannot exist without space and the existence of time does require energy.
@@ROForeverMan yes. Time is the horizon or...seperation between 1D, 2D, 3D and 7D, 8D, 9D in the contingent universe.
There are good films on the topic: Arrival and Mr. Nobody
And the Everything Everywhere All at Once in the latest one
So we all gonna pass the immediate fact, This man is a BIG fan of turtle neck attire. Not even hating. Dude rocks tha shieeet better than anyone I’ve met 🤔
The turtleneck, the black hole of men's sttire...
Rambling
Ain't nobody got time fo dat
You've obviously never seen me wearing nothing but a turtleneck half shirt 🦵👍🎉
also the bilocation of consciousnes can happen as well, see carl jungs NDE, as well as many others.
Being conscious is a process.
Process is an abstract notion.
Abstract notions have no location
(even though their material substrate does).
In short, consciousness, being abstract, has no location.
What an extraordinarily disorganized pile of error soaked gibberish R. Tallis dropped!
It doesn't take a great mind to realize time is a concept only but
it may take a good deal of thinking
to overcome a lifetime of cultural indoctrination that
has convinced almost everyone into believing
time is a 'something' out there.
Tallis: "In other words, physics cannot accommodate the fact of the physical gaze on the world."
Don't know what the noise in the background is but it is very annoying. Giving up on this one.
Time is real and actually changes its rate throughout the universe. Time exists for physical things to take place. We need time to grow. We need time to live. Time allows for our existence in slow motion.
Time is change
@@ROForeverMan The universe describes all of time and distance. It’s a physical fabrication.
@@ishikawa1338 The rate of change changes.
"Time cannot be an illusion because other people experience it" that doesn't follow
Time is the most important ingredient in the universe.
The only thing money can’t buy…
Are you familiar with Chronon Field Theory? It is a Theory of Everything that is attempting to take Occam's Razor to Physics under the "force" of Time.
@@ROForeverMan Are you familiar with Prof Bernardo Kastrup? He explores Analytical Idealism, Consciousness.
@@ROForeverMan Does your Theory of Consciousness explore the "Nous" of a human being, the "Eye of the Soul" as described in the Monastic Life of Hesychasm of Holy Orthodoxy?
@@ROForeverMan Yes, intelligence but not of our faculty of Reason in our brain, but intelligence of our heart, the awareness at the core of our being, thus being "enlightened", if you will, with the Divine Law of Creation to Love God and Neighbor as your "Self" (All as one Consciousness), to devote yourself to the ascetic life of overcoming your passions and desires that lead to sin and suffering (ideas of the world), to detach from the material world of perception and flow with the Divine Light of Creation granted you not to suffer its "loss", to exist in peace to the Natural Law, the Holy Spirit, the Word of God that "breathes" into our Consciousness and brings us into Being. It's the difference between Truth and Nihilism. So choose your Ideal: Free Will: Conscious Agency of Soul: Heaven or Hell or Nothingness.
Time is what allows anything to happen.
Could be dark energy? Driving the expansion. Time is a product of it. ?
"Time is what allows anything to happen" is completely backward.
Things happening permits our invention of the temporal concept.
Time is a concept which makes it easier for us to think about
the relative movements of objects.
Why’s there always a tap dancer in clogs in the background with this fellow
The part of the future that is determined is that the first heaven and earth will pass away. What isn't determined is whether you possibly turn to and follow the word of God, or you turn and go further away from the word of God. It is determined that God can't have sin around, which is why he has to have the first heaven and earth pass away, and he makes all things new.
ALL THAT HAPPENED IN SEQUENCE, HAPPENED INA MOMENT.
time is side effect, but the apes have no chance to figure that out, even with hints, it is a very complicated, the logic behind this existence not easy at all.
Time is limited and measurable because of gravity.