I'll be making the art available to our Patrons: www.patreon.com/InvictaHistory Video Time Stamps: 2:20 - What did they say? 12:00 - Why did they say it? 14:05 - How did they say it?
This leaves out an awful lot of the world's history. Not to mention that all of the cultures you sight are either Classical Greece, or cultures that were influenced by Classical Greece. The Macedonians, Romans, later Europeans, and even the Islamic World were all familiar with Herodotus, either directly or through works inspired by his work. What would be an interesting follow up would be to look at history from other world cultures to see if they have the same trend to the same degree. You could look at India, China, and the other nations in South or East Asia, the early Viking Sagas, Sub-Saharan Africa, Polynesian, and the Americas. If, in all places, you found reference to pre-battle oratory, we could at least rule out the idea that Herodotus invented the concept and that every time it really happened was because a general had read his work.
@@jesseberg3271 I concur and want to add the commanders instructions on how to treat the nonfighting public and general orders on how to act and fight. This must be important and also the way fighting did most of the time stop when the commander was killed in battle.
Some graphical mistakes: 2:20 The graphics show the Persian commander at Salamis to be Darius. It should be Xerxes. 2:40 The graphics show the cavalry being posted on the flanks at Leuctra. Our account describes them being posted in front of the infantry. 3:44 The graphics show the battle taking place over what seem to be a topographical cutout. Our sources describe the engagement at an important road juncture with the Spartan right anchored on a sanctuary of Heracles. 4:21 The graphics show a pitched battle. When Brasidas made the speech, he was trying to retreat and had formed his army into a square, with the heavy infantry on the outside and light infantry in the middle.
Those are what i miss most about some of the older total war titles, like shogun 2, rome, and medieval 2. Imagine those speeches in warhammer 2, in a battle between high elves and orcs or chaos warriors and the empire
Next question: "Did Japanese armies really always have a guy who shouted "OUR MEN ARE RUNNING FROM THE BATTLEFIELD, A SHAMEFULL DISPLAY!" every time a regiment was routed?
General: "So that's why I'm here, the leader of the Julii!" Soldier at the end of the battle line a mile away: "Why is it so quiet before the fighting starts?"
Not at all. Take 18k people in ancient times. Spread them out 6 deep. Give a meter each (half a meter for spacing between man, half a meter for collective spacing between units. That gives a 3km wide (just under a mile on each side) formation for just the infantry, not to mention cav and skirmishes on the wings.
You are not supose to give speech for whole army, just your platoon. And I thing every platoon leeder gaved some sort of a speech, encouragmant or something.
"We are gathered here today to do battle. Regrettable isn't it? I didn't want to be here myself, but my grandmother told me that I better make a good show out of it. So here it goes."
Reminds me of Brutus in the HBO Series Rome. His great,great, who knows how many Greats Killed Romes last king. Then his descendant went onto kill Romes last Dictator in Caesar. Rome's Patrician class was really such a small world.
Caesar pauses as his officers repeat what they heard of his speech to the men at the back: "Grand, loud, sons of Rome! You favored the stars! Our enemies ache at the sight of you!"
12:43 - there's a story about Hannibal at the Cannae. According to a source, when he walked out of his tent with his officers before the battle, he or some of his aides cracked a joke, and in response they started to laugh. And when the troops saw that the whole officer group is laughing and in a good mood, this inspired in them great confidence, because they thought they laughed at the Romans.
Another idea that ancient generals could use was to bring the officers in a tight circular formation and deliver his "speech" (or guidance) to them. Then they, in turn, deliver the same speech to their cohorts.
I was on the English side at the 950th anniversary reenactment of the Battle of Hastings in 2016. There were approx 500 to 600 of us standing in formation waiting for the Norman reenactors to arrive on the field. Simply between everyone talking to each other, weapons and armor noise, and the general excitement we could not hear orders screamed out 50 feet from us. There was a loudspeaker system set up to narrate the battle to the tens of thousands strong crowd spectating and we could barely hear it in the center. That said Harold Godwinson riding up and down the line on a massive black horse got a cheer from us that I swore they heard in London. Though it was a reenactment at that moment the hairs on the back of my neck stood up.
"guys, they have 1000 heavy infrantry and 500 cavalry, we have 50 peasants, but we have god on our side!" *morale increased from 20% to 100%* btw i draw stupid caricatures of historical figures if anyone is interested
It could also be that only a small part of the army heard the speech but got rallid up and the excitement spread through the entire army, maybe some shouted parts of what the heard and it spread even further kinda like mob psychology
That’s a good observation, seeing as how it is always depicted that the General gives the speech from the front of the army, but during battle is almost always mounted in the rear. Raising the morale of the front line has a knock on affect for those behind them, and are the people who make first contact with the enemy, so are those who need high morale the most.
Exactly, I was just thinking about how if I were in the back rows during a speech I would not hear a literal word of what they said but when everyone else cheered I would so to to not stick out.
Shakespeare, perhaps, hints at the 'relay' model of a speech in the St. Crispin's speech: "Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host, That he which hath no stomach to this fight, Let him depart; his passport shall be made And crowns for convoy put into his purse: We would not die in that man's company That fears his fellowship to die with us. " Come to think of it, coaches' half-time locker room speeches to dispirited football teams are in this tradition even now. Bet there have been some good ones, too, never recorded even informally. I wonder if some coaches have tried to play the St. Crispin speech from a video to their players?
Arise, arise, Riders of Theoden! Spears shall be shaken, shield shall be splintered, a sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now, ride now, ride! Ride for ruin, and the worlds ending! Death! Death! Death! Forth Eorlingas!
Rider 1: "I can't hear a word he's saying." Rider 2: "Are those sword swirls tactical manoeuvres?" Rider 1: "What? You mean we're supposed to charge and turn around?" Rider 2: "And turn around again. He's swinging his sword in circles." Rider 3: "Nah, that's meant as feigning." Rider 1: "What's that?" Rider 3: "It's a military tactic where you engage the enemy and then feign to lose heart and retreat. The enemy will eagerly pursue and thus break up their formation. Turning around at an opportune moment will allow you to charge through until the point where cohesion was lost. At least, that's the theory." Rider 1: "So we are supposed to charge until midway, loop around and charge again..." Rider 2: "Oh, he's doing something else now." Rider 1: "Great now I've lost the sequence. Oh, and we're off. Wait! Hold up! Come on guys! Does anyone know the sequence? Guys?"
11:36 mmmmm depends how one defines a speech. Plenty of orders of the day came from upper command during the world wars. Some of these were fairly speech-like and there were plenty of them.
Can't speak to back in the day, but I know that nowadays when U.S. Marine commanders have the time to give a speech and are confident in doing so, they generally do. Both as a way of going over the battle plan (including commander's intent, R.O.E., etc.) and increasing troop moral. While usually done without electronic aid at the battalion level (generally 300-800 ppl), if done in larger groups they might set up audio systems, however.
J Rodriguez it always seemed useless to me, all they would have to say is kill, I would do thusly. I had no fear of death for as an infantryman I am its harbinger
I think he was an actual ancestor of skrillex... But to sad europeans don't use those ancient names anymore, except of the Greeks, there are way to many Plato's and sokrates'es on the streets
'The Roman Eagle is a Roman Chicken, Fleeing the cooks Cleaver' Rome Total war, Carthaginian Narrator, when Roman Faction leader flees against Carthaginian Faction leader.
I think Tolkien knew what he was doing when he wrote Theoden's speech at the battle of Pellenor where he says very little but several time and in different ways as he rides by. Thus getting the message through to the bulk of the army
it would be nice to see a video about how (before radio/morse code) generals/leaders communicated to different units their positions and movements before, and during battle
I just want to say that it is so refreshing and inspiring, that you choose such unusual topics for your videos. The micro history or may it be better called "casual" history in this case is so fascinating. It is just like peeking into a certain moment in the past and seeing all the little things play out. Nice job as usual, Invicta!
I always loved the contextual implications of Alexander the greats speech to his men in India before going back to Greece. Basically came down to, I would go alone if I was able to, but if your all are really to scared to cross the river then I guess we can go home.
Alright, here's what we're gonna do. Set up our most fearless soldiers close by. Inform them that when I give this signal, they are to howl, this signal to bash their shields, and this signal to stomp their feet and spears. It was an amazing battle, the troops fought like gods; a fearless unshakable bulwark against the savage heathens. One can only attribute this to the rousing speech which shook the very souls of the soldiers, wave after wave they howled and bashed their shields and stomped their feet. It was stirring to say the least... Excuse me, yes you sir, what did the Ceaser say before the battle? Oh umm... something about him pissing his pants. I didn't get the full story, but his mom left a hand print he never forgot.
All this time, I was thinking this scenario: General: (goes up a high place on his horse) This day! We are against a mighty foe! But fear not! We will wi.. (An arrow hits and kills him) Soldiers: ?
I thought that the speech was given to a select group in front of the Army and then the Unit Commanders went and relayed what the "Boss" had said...The troops knew it was so ...they saw the "Boss" say it...That's the way it was when I Served...And it worked for Us...But we where so much Younger then...Semper Fi...
I know this isn’t the format of the channel but could you do reviews of historical movies especially the ones that have big battle this could be a great opportunity to point out all h the misconception in Hollywood and you could recommend videos that cover different aspects of the movies to get the full answer on any topic and it would be a very entertaining format to watch. Long pitch sry and thx for the Great content
This is extremely fascinating, the last part about hearing the speech especially! Something that in movies we often don’t see but it would be great to see before a certain battle scene. Commander gives a speech but is helped by his officers.
Would love a video on communication during large scale battles. How would a general order his far away flanks to maneuver a certain way? How effective was drums, horns and banners for this purpose? How fast could you expect a far away unit to respond to an order? Did subcommanders communicate losses/gains back to the general? Etc.
Armies were usually followed around by large groups of civilians, some of whom were just there to watch the fight for entertainment. Generals usually kept around people who could write. Historians went around and interviewed war veterans.
For most of history battles where won by moral. To inspire your troops and convince them to fight till victory you are quite literally saving lives as your men will fight harder and the enemy seeing this will be more likely to raut. The faster the battle is over the fewer had to die, before it was over.
Maybe they gave speeches. Maybe they inspired. Maybe they were the greatest words heard by man. But what is certain is that we fight this day and we will win and they will die!
12:15 This has to be the most historically accurate looking yet most awe-inspiring battle depiction I've seen. Anyone has a source on this? I can darken it and make it my wallpaper
I believe that leaders gave speaches similar to the ones recorded, but the recording fix any gramatical errors repetition and might enbelish some parts tho the speach with a similar purpose and idea was actually spoken.
20 years ago, I used to really enjoy watching The History Channel. But then it devolved into nothing but reality TV and alien hunters. I haven't even turned it on in at least 5 years. This channel, chief among a few others, fills that gap for me. Please keep up the excellent work. I really appreciate your efforts.
Before mickrophones people where more capable of staying quiet when they wanted to hear someone speak, because no one could say instead of me being quiet they should be a mikrophne.
I think in modern warfare, with small-unit action being the norm rather than set-piece battles, the pre-battle speech has been superseded by the much more practical mission briefing. After explaining everyone's tasks, the commander may finish the briefing with a few encouraging words if the operation is expected to be unusually difficult or dangerous.
I kind of disagree that there are only 3 options. Especially in large armies there is a 4th one: Going down the ranks. From the General to the Legates and maybe some centurions to the rest of the centurions to the soldiers. We know the plan for the battle was relayed to the troops like this. Why not the motivation? Another thing about wether and how they happend I find very interesting was said in a video by Historia Civilis. I think it was Pompeys last battle against Cesar. In HCs descripton of it, he mentions that for several days the troops deployed in the morning in a certain formation, then didn't fight apart from maybe a few skirmishes, then left the battlefield in the evening, just to do it again the next day. I also remember that HC mentioned something like this was commonplace and it was one of Cesars great strenghts. If I imagine myself as a Soldier in that army, having to go out into the scorching greek sun, having to listen to a long speech, getting really motivated to kill the enemy and then do nothing, I think that would actually have the opposite effect. A short speech (done like option 3 suggests) once you know shit is actually going down, combined with a general morale boosting through the officers seems so much better for battles like that.
It makes sense, as the speech is the last real chance the commander has to bolster or shore up their forces morale before a battle. As, when battle is joined, noise, dust, smells and smoke will make mockery of everything but leading by example. That said, the victor has the perk of embelishing or rewriting the facts with few others able to contradict or question their presentation. In modern times, on a far more vast, assymetric and dispersed battlefield the speech prior to battle is replaced by the pre-mission briefing, usually followed by one kind of unit specific greeting or ritualistic wishes of good fortune on squad, platoon or at most company level once the commander is satisfied that all subordinates has understood the orders and the purpose of the specific task.
14:05 Ceasar had it easy: He just gave the Speech to the Centurions and Tribunes. The normal soldiers just followed the Centurions. They were the Centurions responsibility, not his.
Can you make a video about what armies do on the march? When we read tactics and strategies we always hear army x moved to this place which was x days away, but it doesn't tell us the details of how it is being conducted, such as do they set up camp every night with fortifications? How many hours is dedicated to marching? Do they take breaks? What time do they wake up and what time do they sleep? What do the sentries doing the night guard during the day when the army is moving again? Are the sentries carried on wagons so they can sleep?
In the past before we had technology like the microphone for people to transmit their speeches for everyone to hear, a lot of kings and military leaders had to resort to lung power. Either they were gifted with a set of strong pipes that helped their voices resonate across a battlefield or they had to train themselves like opera singers to make their voices as loud and as booming as possible. Some may have even gotten a hype man or an orator to speak for them.
I'm sure the people in the back didn't need to always hear the speech either, just seeing the commander out front giving one could be a moral boost. Also, not knowing exactly what was said, but hearing the cheers, and then joining in as part of the army, could be a moral booster.
Hey I know you dont cover most countrys without large historical significance but can you do a video on the Avro Arrow I think it would make a interesting video especially for how significant it was at the time but that's my own opinion.
Very interesting topic in this video. But it still leaves me wondering if a similar type of scene I've seen in movies is valid. Best recent example I can come up with is in the intro battle scene from the film "King Arthur: Legend Of The Sword." The enemies are preparing to attack, and Sir Bedivere (Djimon Honsu) and Camelot's army are preparing to meet them. Bedivere turns around to face his men, raises his arms and shouts "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and in response, all the soldiers in front of him let out war cries of their own and now they're psyched up and ready for battle. Did this type of scene really happen in historical battles?
I dont know if this was a part of the research. But it seems to me that said speeches are given at assemly before the battlelines be drawn. Likely as in a sports game where the coach gives the speech in private to the huddled players, the general or queen would give his or her speech at a place and time where it would be heard by most and have the least interruptions either by weather or enemy hand (and again most of the time).
I know that at least in the 1800s commanders on the brigade level would give speach to each regiment separately, 500-1000 troops. Now this wasn't usually done before a battle but in other instances. I have read however that some would write up a speech in several copies to be handed out to the commanders of other unit, say on the regimental level, to be read aloud to the troops.
This topic would have been a good opportunity to pair with a promotion for a public address system. "Now if Vercingetorix had a PA system from my sponsor available to him, his soldiers would carry the day. Also, he would be seen as a magician, probably."
Next video: do bad guy always give a 10 minutes long monologue while holding a gun at the hero's head, therefore giving him or her a chance to be saved.
Usually depended on the commander/culture, and they would be surounded by a bodyguard. Last (european) monarch to die in battle was Charles XII of Sweden afaik.
I know that for example in WWII speeches by generals or politicians might be distributed throughout the army, and local officers would read the speech out to their platoon/company/etc
When you speak of morale, you're so right. My practice was, to never ask my soldier to do something I wouldn't do. If I needed a M. Gun position taken I would always do it first,
In asterix & obelix vs cesar, Cesar is acompained by some guys with cartoonishly big tromphetes to repeat his speech such that it’s heard at longer distances. While it is done for the sake comedy, I wonder if something similar couldn’t actually have happened, it is relatively easy to make a megaphone, and most such ancient warbands did have “musicians” to help forward messenges through the use of drums, trumphets etc, I don’t think it would be much of a stretch if either part of the musicians, or even the night watch (which needs to sent quick, loud and clear signals if the camp is attacked during the night) carried such megaphones that could be used to assist the general forward his speech.
My assumption was that speeches were given to gatherings of officers and their aides, in which a general would always need to gather such individuals before a battle anyway. They might've been encouraged the officers to present a similar or the same speech in writing to the soldiers under their command. In any case, I don't have any pre-battle speeches in the novel I've got currently in editing. Hope that's ok.
“It is not that addresses at the opening of a battle make the soldiers brave. The old veterans scarcely hear them, and recruits forget them at the first boom of the cannon. Their usefulness lies in their effect on the course of the campaign, in neutralizing rumors and false reports, in maintaining a good spirit in the camp, and in furnishing matter for camp-fire talk. The printed order of the day should fulfill these different ends.” ― Napoleon Bonaparte
14,000 men was an unusually large army. In most battles their numbers would be much smaller, I think. Also, I wonder if they had some sort of megaphone. The Greeks knew the principle of a speaking tube, since short ones were incorporated in the masks their actors always wore. Another resource on this question would be medieval accounts of famous preachers, who sometimes preached to very large crowds outdoors. On the other hand, some of the churches of the Franciscans and Dominicans, one of whose most important assignment was preaching, were built not as long rectangles but more like squares, so that everyone could hear and even see the preacher, and some of these could hold thousands of people closely packed. As I recall, some historians call these "barn churches," You can see some of these in Siena, But probably there was less ambient noise than outdoors. In any case, the accounts of outdoor preaching would form a good source of data on how well and how a speaker could be heard by a large crowd,
I'll be making the art available to our Patrons: www.patreon.com/InvictaHistory
Video Time Stamps:
2:20 - What did they say?
12:00 - Why did they say it?
14:05 - How did they say it?
This leaves out an awful lot of the world's history. Not to mention that all of the cultures you sight are either Classical Greece, or cultures that were influenced by Classical Greece. The Macedonians, Romans, later Europeans, and even the Islamic World were all familiar with Herodotus, either directly or through works inspired by his work.
What would be an interesting follow up would be to look at history from other world cultures to see if they have the same trend to the same degree. You could look at India, China, and the other nations in South or East Asia, the early Viking Sagas, Sub-Saharan Africa, Polynesian, and the Americas. If, in all places, you found reference to pre-battle oratory, we could at least rule out the idea that Herodotus invented the concept and that every time it really happened was because a general had read his work.
@@jesseberg3271 I concur and want to add the commanders instructions on how to treat the nonfighting public and general orders on how to act and fight.
This must be important and also the way fighting did most of the time stop when the commander was killed in battle.
Hey! I think UA-cam allows you to split your videos into sections these days. Really helpful imo
Great vids as always! Keep it up!
Some graphical mistakes:
2:20 The graphics show the Persian commander at Salamis to be Darius. It should be Xerxes.
2:40 The graphics show the cavalry being posted on the flanks at Leuctra. Our account describes them being posted in front of the infantry.
3:44 The graphics show the battle taking place over what seem to be a topographical cutout. Our sources describe the engagement at an important road juncture with the Spartan right anchored on a sanctuary of Heracles.
4:21 The graphics show a pitched battle. When Brasidas made the speech, he was trying to retreat and had formed his army into a square, with the heavy infantry on the outside and light infantry in the middle.
Have you considered doing a series on the Peloponnesian war?
Our men are running from the battlefield, shamefull display!" 10/10 speech.
shamefur dispray.
*Our men
@@Redtecho there was only one. that's why he -are- is running from the battlefield
@@terner1234 Still wrong, just in a different way.
Dude it's just a unit of hillmen, chill
Whether they did or not, I loved those speeches in Rome: Total War.
Especially M2TW
Those are what i miss most about some of the older total war titles, like shogun 2, rome, and medieval 2. Imagine those speeches in warhammer 2, in a battle between high elves and orcs or chaos warriors and the empire
@@marloyorkrodriguez9975 Damn those sausage eating, imperial pudding heads.
chocoman45 bumsniffers!
Shogun 2 speeches were the best. It was anime af
Next question: "Did Japanese armies really always have a guy who shouted "OUR MEN ARE RUNNING FROM THE BATTLEFIELD, A SHAMEFULL DISPLAY!" every time a regiment was routed?
Yes..followed by a speech/order to each officer in the routing unit to commit seppuku
General: "So that's why I'm here, the leader of the Julii!"
Soldier at the end of the battle line a mile away: "Why is it so quiet before the fighting starts?"
the battle must be huge if the last line is 1.6km away from the first
Not at all. Take 18k people in ancient times. Spread them out 6 deep. Give a meter each (half a meter for spacing between man, half a meter for collective spacing between units. That gives a 3km wide (just under a mile on each side) formation for just the infantry, not to mention cav and skirmishes on the wings.
@@terner1234 a mile really isn't that big
@@TophuPaint or group them in like sardines
You are not supose to give speech for whole army, just your platoon. And I thing every platoon leeder gaved some sort of a speech, encouragmant or something.
“Our enemies, the French, are said to be better lovers than fighters. This is true! Ask any cat, dog or farmyard animal.”
xd
In Medieval II
Or in other words, a fake quote.
@Sïôro Yep
@Sïôro Nope
@@FREEMAN.... Be honest. How many hours did it take you to figure out it was nothing more than a joke?
"... and then the entire battlefield erupted into raucous applause."
- Thucydides, c. 420 BCE
and then everyone clapped.
@@nvmtt And then they-..dammit
Since they are ancient greeks, everyone flapped
"We are gathered here today to do battle. Regrettable isn't it? I didn't want to be here myself, but my grandmother told me that I better make a good show out of it. So here it goes."
Reference?
@@PuzzlingGoal The original Rome Total War. That game was littered with hilarious speeches.
Rome total War XD hahahahha
Reminds me of Brutus in the HBO Series Rome. His great,great, who knows how many Greats Killed Romes last king. Then his descendant went onto kill Romes last Dictator in Caesar. Rome's Patrician class was really such a small world.
Blackadderesque
Stand proud you sons of Rome, you favored of Mars, our enemies shake at the sight of you!
Caesar pauses as his officers repeat what they heard of his speech to the men at the back:
"Grand, loud, sons of Rome! You favored the stars! Our enemies ache at the sight of you!"
@@Nikolapoleon Still intelligible
Makes sense, pronouncing with s sounds will be more quiet than ah sounds.
“After all, we have Bohemians to look down upon!” - Total war medieval 2
the best part of that was it comes from a Holy Roman Empire general xD
CODPIECEFONDLERS!
Bohemians who managed to defeat their significantly larger neighbours multiple times.
Champer pot drinkers...
".....AAAAHHH" medival total war 2
12:43 - there's a story about Hannibal at the Cannae. According to a source, when he walked out of his tent with his officers before the battle, he or some of his aides cracked a joke, and in response they started to laugh. And when the troops saw that the whole officer group is laughing and in a good mood, this inspired in them great confidence, because they thought they laughed at the Romans.
Another idea that ancient generals could use was to bring the officers in a tight circular formation and deliver his "speech" (or guidance) to them. Then they, in turn, deliver the same speech to their cohorts.
Probably a common thing that .
Or in their camp before a battle or similar
Imagine if one of them came back and said "uhh general...I forgot the last part of your speech, could ya maybe repeat it to me?"
That's how the Chinese generals gave rise to Chinese whispers
I was on the English side at the 950th anniversary reenactment of the Battle of Hastings in 2016. There were approx 500 to 600 of us standing in formation waiting for the Norman reenactors to arrive on the field. Simply between everyone talking to each other, weapons and armor noise, and the general excitement we could not hear orders screamed out 50 feet from us. There was a loudspeaker system set up to narrate the battle to the tens of thousands strong crowd spectating and we could barely hear it in the center. That said Harold Godwinson riding up and down the line on a massive black horse got a cheer from us that I swore they heard in London. Though it was a reenactment at that moment the hairs on the back of my neck stood up.
"We are going to take the fortress. I do not expect it to be easy. I do expect it to be done."
I like this one
Shogun 2!! Love that game
"guys, they have 1000 heavy infrantry and 500 cavalry, we have 50 peasants, but we have god on our side!"
*morale increased from 20% to 100%*
btw i draw stupid caricatures of historical figures if anyone is interested
Zizka: "We also have a laager of wagons, some handcannons, and some footmen's flails, and I, your general, am blind..." [HUSSITES WIN ANYWAY]
@@penelopegreene damn, which battle was this?
@@captaindak5119 The Battle of Vitkov Hill, the general being Jan Žižka - argued to be one of the best Generals of all time
@@penelopegreene yeah that was a lucky and genial battle
@@alexd832 Sry, you don't need to play WH40k to know what they did to heretics back in the day! XD
_"today we are cancelling the apocalypse"_
This sounds good though.
what is that from?
@@WeedMIC Pacific Rim 1
"we can't hear you from the back."
Psst, psst, dude, what is he saying?
Well those in front need boost off moral the most
Thought that was a quote from Monty Python. Honestly can see how that can be played out in Holy Grail or Life of Brian.
I think he said something about the cheese makers
Reminds me of Life of Brian. That hearing problem is how we got a classic line like: "blessed are the cheese makers?"
There may come a time when I believe Generals did not give rousing speeches...
BUT IT IS NOT THIS DAY!
Ok Great
GOAT historical speech - ua-cam.com/video/RlKJDwViNKs/v-deo.html
Thank me later.
an hour of wolves and shattered shields until the age of rousing speeches comes crashing down
It could also be that only a small part of the army heard the speech but got rallid up and the excitement spread through the entire army, maybe some shouted parts of what the heard and it spread even further kinda like mob psychology
That’s my thought. People in the back being like “Well the guys up front feel good about this.”
That’s a good observation, seeing as how it is always depicted that the General gives the speech from the front of the army, but during battle is almost always mounted in the rear. Raising the morale of the front line has a knock on affect for those behind them, and are the people who make first contact with the enemy, so are those who need high morale the most.
Exactly, I was just thinking about how if I were in the back rows during a speech I would not hear a literal word of what they said but when everyone else cheered I would so to to not stick out.
Shakespeare, perhaps, hints at the 'relay' model of a speech in the St. Crispin's speech:
"Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us. "
Come to think of it, coaches' half-time locker room speeches to dispirited football teams are in this tradition even now. Bet there have been some good ones, too, never recorded even informally. I wonder if some coaches have tried to play the St. Crispin speech from a video to their players?
Arise, arise, Riders of Theoden!
Spears shall be shaken, shield shall be splintered, a sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
Ride now, ride now, ride! Ride for ruin, and the worlds ending!
Death! Death! Death!
Forth Eorlingas!
This is cheesy but true. This made my eyes wet in the movie theater. 🥺
Rider 1: "I can't hear a word he's saying."
Rider 2: "Are those sword swirls tactical manoeuvres?"
Rider 1: "What? You mean we're supposed to charge and turn around?"
Rider 2: "And turn around again. He's swinging his sword in circles."
Rider 3: "Nah, that's meant as feigning."
Rider 1: "What's that?"
Rider 3: "It's a military tactic where you engage the enemy and then feign to lose heart and retreat. The enemy will eagerly pursue and thus break up their formation. Turning around at an opportune moment will allow you to charge through until the point where cohesion was lost. At least, that's the theory."
Rider 1: "So we are supposed to charge until midway, loop around and charge again..."
Rider 2: "Oh, he's doing something else now."
Rider 1: "Great now I've lost the sequence. Oh, and we're off. Wait! Hold up! Come on guys! Does anyone know the sequence?
Guys?"
Matthew Jay what movie is it from?
at least, he could speak well. sending his cavalry head on against the oliphants was way worse than his speech
11:36 mmmmm depends how one defines a speech. Plenty of orders of the day came from upper command during the world wars. Some of these were fairly speech-like and there were plenty of them.
@Hans Günther so they did take prisoners?
Invicta: Did Generals really give battle speeches ?
Me: Don' do it, don't take that away from me ?
Its the best bevor every Rometotal war Battle
"May it be, in future times, that whenever an army's attention begins to flag, the commander will say, 'We really need to Phocis, guise'..."
"I look at our foes and see nothing but arse weasels!" - Medieval II Total War
"I do not throw away lives needlessly. I will give you victory, if you have the guts to follow my every command!"
'Before us lies a hoard of unwashed barbarian scum!"
Can't speak to back in the day, but I know that nowadays when U.S. Marine commanders have the time to give a speech and are confident in doing so, they generally do. Both as a way of going over the battle plan (including commander's intent, R.O.E., etc.) and increasing troop moral. While usually done without electronic aid at the battalion level (generally 300-800 ppl), if done in larger groups they might set up audio systems, however.
Yeah we had a couple high ranking types in the 8th Army that gave speeches in a similar fashion.
J Rodriguez it always seemed useless to me, all they would have to say is kill, I would do thusly. I had no fear of death for as an infantryman I am its harbinger
@@straightjacket219 💪
@@straightjacket219 also its*
@@straightjacket219 edgy
It doesnt have to be a speech even a simple phrase or a battle cry could inspire an entire army
Vercingetorix has got to be one of the coolest names in history!
calico jack is a cool name also
I took his name in my Latin class.
I think he was an actual ancestor of skrillex... But to sad europeans don't use those ancient names anymore, except of the Greeks, there are way to many Plato's and sokrates'es on the streets
@@LordHugorion Old German names are really cool also, in Ireland we use some older Gaelic names but they tend to be the same boring ones.
I see Vercingetorix is on the cover. I am a simple man I see gauls, I click!
'The Roman Eagle is a Roman Chicken, Fleeing the cooks Cleaver'
Rome Total war, Carthaginian Narrator, when Roman Faction leader flees against Carthaginian Faction leader.
Very interesting question, and in depth well-researched answer. That's exactly the kind of quality content I'm here for. Thank you.
I think Tolkien knew what he was doing when he wrote Theoden's speech at the battle of Pellenor where he says very little but several time and in different ways as he rides by. Thus getting the message through to the bulk of the army
it would be nice to see a video about how (before radio/morse code) generals/leaders communicated to different units their positions and movements before, and during battle
Via messengers, trumpets/horns/drums and flags, mostly.
I just want to say that it is so refreshing and inspiring, that you choose such unusual topics for your videos. The micro history or may it be better called "casual" history in this case is so fascinating. It is just like peeking into a certain moment in the past and seeing all the little things play out. Nice job as usual, Invicta!
"hey kids ....give em hell...give em hell" - Julius Caeser
Wow this was fascinating as fook.
Invictus u are insanely intelligent and wise imo.
Good job and good luck with everything .
As long as the speech ends with Carthago Delenda est it happened.
“And furthermore! Carthage must be destroyed!”
I always loved the contextual implications of Alexander the greats speech to his men in India before going back to Greece. Basically came down to, I would go alone if I was able to, but if your all are really to scared to cross the river then I guess we can go home.
Yeah but Cesar did something similar too
Alright, here's what we're gonna do. Set up our most fearless soldiers close by. Inform them that when I give this signal, they are to howl, this signal to bash their shields, and this signal to stomp their feet and spears.
It was an amazing battle, the troops fought like gods; a fearless unshakable bulwark against the savage heathens. One can only attribute this to the rousing speech which shook the very souls of the soldiers, wave after wave they howled and bashed their shields and stomped their feet. It was stirring to say the least... Excuse me, yes you sir, what did the Ceaser say before the battle?
Oh umm... something about him pissing his pants. I didn't get the full story, but his mom left a hand print he never forgot.
This is it
Well those in front need boost off moral the most ..if i was in first raw i would be scared as sht
would rather be in the back when the enemy cavalry flanks you?
All this time, I was thinking this scenario:
General: (goes up a high place on his horse) This day! We are against a mighty foe! But fear not! We will wi..
(An arrow hits and kills him)
Soldiers: ?
I thought that the speech was given to a select group in front of the Army and then the Unit Commanders went and relayed what the "Boss" had said...The troops knew it was so ...they saw the "Boss" say it...That's the way it was when I Served...And it worked for Us...But we where so much Younger then...Semper Fi...
What if the enemy attacked right now? Lmao that cracked me up
I know this isn’t the format of the channel but could you do reviews of historical movies especially the ones that have big battle this could be a great opportunity to point out all h the misconception in Hollywood and you could recommend videos that cover different aspects of the movies to get the full answer on any topic and it would be a very entertaining format to watch. Long pitch sry and thx for the Great content
You outdid yourself once more! Thanks a lot for really going after the answers to these questions!
What about King Aragorn speech the best in all of middle earth history
They were few enough to all hear
This is extremely fascinating, the last part about hearing the speech especially! Something that in movies we often don’t see but it would be great to see before a certain battle scene. Commander gives a speech but is helped by his officers.
Would love a video on communication during large scale battles. How would a general order his far away flanks to maneuver a certain way? How effective was drums, horns and banners for this purpose? How fast could you expect a far away unit to respond to an order? Did subcommanders communicate losses/gains back to the general? Etc.
Awesome video, got a question though, how did people actually chronicle battles? Like ancient war journalists??
Armies were usually followed around by large groups of civilians, some of whom were just there to watch the fight for entertainment. Generals usually kept around people who could write. Historians went around and interviewed war veterans.
For most of history battles where won by moral. To inspire your troops and convince them to fight till victory you are quite literally saving lives as your men will fight harder and the enemy seeing this will be more likely to raut. The faster the battle is over the fewer had to die, before it was over.
The best example is Daniel Morgan before Cowpens. Just wandering around the camp demanding three good volleys to anyone he could. Worked like a charm
Answer: maybe.
Maybe they gave speeches. Maybe they inspired. Maybe they were the greatest words heard by man. But what is certain is that we fight this day and we will win and they will die!
12:15
This has to be the most historically accurate looking yet most awe-inspiring battle depiction I've seen. Anyone has a source on this? I can darken it and make it my wallpaper
The speech by Scipio Africanus in Sicily right before sailing to Carthage is one of my favorites.
Hi, I think at 2:30, on the map, there should be Xerxes, not Darius in top center violet group, right?
I believe that leaders gave speaches similar to the ones recorded, but the recording fix any gramatical errors repetition and might enbelish some parts tho the speach with a similar purpose and idea was actually spoken.
I always find anything you talk about fascinating! History is the best!
20 years ago, I used to really enjoy watching The History Channel. But then it devolved into nothing but reality TV and alien hunters. I haven't even turned it on in at least 5 years. This channel, chief among a few others, fills that gap for me. Please keep up the excellent work. I really appreciate your efforts.
Before mickrophones people where more capable of staying quiet when they wanted to hear someone speak, because no one could say instead of me being quiet they should be a mikrophne.
Great vídeo! Rlly instructive. BUT
14:00 What on earth is that guy in brown supposed to be?
I think in modern warfare, with small-unit action being the norm rather than set-piece battles, the pre-battle speech has been superseded by the much more practical mission briefing. After explaining everyone's tasks, the commander may finish the briefing with a few encouraging words if the operation is expected to be unusually difficult or dangerous.
4:30 did you add the word "not" in the beginning and give it the complete opposite meaning?
I kind of disagree that there are only 3 options. Especially in large armies there is a 4th one: Going down the ranks. From the General to the Legates and maybe some centurions to the rest of the centurions to the soldiers. We know the plan for the battle was relayed to the troops like this. Why not the motivation?
Another thing about wether and how they happend I find very interesting was said in a video by Historia Civilis. I think it was Pompeys last battle against Cesar.
In HCs descripton of it, he mentions that for several days the troops deployed in the morning in a certain formation, then didn't fight apart from maybe a few skirmishes, then left the battlefield in the evening, just to do it again the next day. I also remember that HC mentioned something like this was commonplace and it was one of Cesars great strenghts.
If I imagine myself as a Soldier in that army, having to go out into the scorching greek sun, having to listen to a long speech, getting really motivated to kill the enemy and then do nothing, I think that would actually have the opposite effect. A short speech (done like option 3 suggests) once you know shit is actually going down, combined with a general morale boosting through the officers seems so much better for battles like that.
9:00 Ahh, I see now where the german general at the end of band of brothers gets his speeches from.
It makes sense, as the speech is the last real chance the commander has to bolster or shore up their forces morale before a battle.
As, when battle is joined, noise, dust, smells and smoke will make mockery of everything but leading by example.
That said, the victor has the perk of embelishing or rewriting the facts with few others able to contradict or question their presentation.
In modern times, on a far more vast, assymetric and dispersed battlefield the speech prior to battle is replaced by the pre-mission briefing, usually followed by one kind of unit specific greeting or ritualistic wishes of good fortune on squad, platoon or at most company level once the commander is satisfied that all subordinates has understood the orders and the purpose of the specific task.
14:05 Ceasar had it easy: He just gave the Speech to the Centurions and Tribunes.
The normal soldiers just followed the Centurions. They were the Centurions responsibility, not his.
Can you make a video about what armies do on the march? When we read tactics and strategies we always hear army x moved to this place which was x days away, but it doesn't tell us the details of how it is being conducted, such as do they set up camp every night with fortifications? How many hours is dedicated to marching? Do they take breaks? What time do they wake up and what time do they sleep? What do the sentries doing the night guard during the day when the army is moving again? Are the sentries carried on wagons so they can sleep?
You should see Invicta's video on possible ancient marching songs.
In the past before we had technology like the microphone for people to transmit their speeches for everyone to hear, a lot of kings and military leaders had to resort to lung power. Either they were gifted with a set of strong pipes that helped their voices resonate across a battlefield or they had to train themselves like opera singers to make their voices as loud and as booming as possible. Some may have even gotten a hype man or an orator to speak for them.
very thorough research! thank you!
This UA-cam channel is pretty amazing
I have always wondered about this thank you.
12:14 The painter did motion blur?
I'm sure the people in the back didn't need to always hear the speech either, just seeing the commander out front giving one could be a moral boost. Also, not knowing exactly what was said, but hearing the cheers, and then joining in as part of the army, could be a moral booster.
Hey I know you dont cover most countrys without large historical significance but can you do a video on the Avro Arrow I think it would make a interesting video especially for how significant it was at the time but that's my own opinion.
"Do not count the number of miles. But the number of their dead."
Very interesting topic in this video. But it still leaves me wondering if a similar type of scene I've seen in movies is valid. Best recent example I can come up with is in the intro battle scene from the film "King Arthur: Legend Of The Sword." The enemies are preparing to attack, and Sir Bedivere (Djimon Honsu) and Camelot's army are preparing to meet them. Bedivere turns around to face his men, raises his arms and shouts "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and in response, all the soldiers in front of him let out war cries of their own and now they're psyched up and ready for battle. Did this type of scene really happen in historical battles?
Id imagine so.
Especially with norsemen and pagans.
I dont know if this was a part of the research. But it seems to me that said speeches are given at assemly before the battlelines be drawn. Likely as in a sports game where the coach gives the speech in private to the huddled players, the general or queen would give his or her speech at a place and time where it would be heard by most and have the least interruptions either by weather or enemy hand (and again most of the time).
I guess that the shortest the speech is, the easier to transmit it is, especially is repeating it or using subordinates as relays.
Don’t play that free WWII game. Go and download HOI4
Whats hoi4??
vinci vedi vici lex talionas Hearts of Iron 4. It’s a grand strategy game set partially in the inter war period to the late 1940s
You are all plebs... I play the one true paradox game... CK2
@@rasiabsgamingcorner2258 Ah yes, the incest fratricide Glitterhoof simulator. A man of culture I see.
i play call of war, i think its pretty good is hearts of iron really that much better?
Well researched. Good job
I know that at least in the 1800s commanders on the brigade level would give speach to each regiment separately, 500-1000 troops. Now this wasn't usually done before a battle but in other instances. I have read however that some would write up a speech in several copies to be handed out to the commanders of other unit, say on the regimental level, to be read aloud to the troops.
This topic would have been a good opportunity to pair with a promotion for a public address system.
"Now if Vercingetorix had a PA system from my sponsor available to him, his soldiers would carry the day. Also, he would be seen as a magician, probably."
Thank you for showing Poland in main screen of the game :D
The idea of a Roman general giving a speech while his officers echo it to the men seems really badass.
Yeah just imagine that delay, every 30 seconds another chunk of the party cheers preetty loudly
Next video: do bad guy always give a 10 minutes long monologue while holding a gun at the hero's head, therefore giving him or her a chance to be saved.
Here is a question: Does the generals lead from the front as they do in the movies or are theyre protected by body guards etc? Johan.
Usually depended on the commander/culture, and they would be surounded by a bodyguard.
Last (european) monarch to die in battle was Charles XII of Sweden afaik.
I know that for example in WWII speeches by generals or politicians might be distributed throughout the army, and local officers would read the speech out to their platoon/company/etc
Seems like such a cool all-inclusive video game! Well done to them and good choice of sponsor.
4:44 You added a "tho" there. Is not on the text.
Has any one tried this exercise of passing a sentence round the table, and what it would be like after 8-10 passing
I did.
Its a game called "Broken telephone "
When you speak of morale, you're so right. My practice was, to never ask my soldier to do something I wouldn't do. If I needed a M. Gun position taken
I would always do it first,
Did something happen to this video? It just won't load for me
Love these videos
rome total war2 music on background lol. do they let you use that for free or you pay something?
In asterix & obelix vs cesar, Cesar is acompained by some guys with cartoonishly big tromphetes to repeat his speech such that it’s heard at longer distances. While it is done for the sake comedy, I wonder if something similar couldn’t actually have happened, it is relatively easy to make a megaphone, and most such ancient warbands did have “musicians” to help forward messenges through the use of drums, trumphets etc, I don’t think it would be much of a stretch if either part of the musicians, or even the night watch (which needs to sent quick, loud and clear signals if the camp is attacked during the night) carried such megaphones that could be used to assist the general forward his speech.
My assumption was that speeches were given to gatherings of officers and their aides, in which a general would always need to gather such individuals before a battle anyway. They might've been encouraged the officers to present a similar or the same speech in writing to the soldiers under their command.
In any case, I don't have any pre-battle speeches in the novel I've got currently in editing. Hope that's ok.
Yo this is the first video I’ve seen of yours in months, I forgot I even subbed. Ima go check see if you been uploading, if so what the f UA-cam
“It is not that addresses at the opening of a battle make the soldiers brave. The old veterans scarcely hear them, and recruits forget them at the first boom of the cannon. Their usefulness lies in their effect on the course of the campaign, in neutralizing rumors and false reports, in maintaining a good spirit in the camp, and in furnishing matter for camp-fire talk. The printed order of the day should fulfill these different ends.”
― Napoleon Bonaparte
14,000 men was an unusually large army. In most battles their numbers would be much smaller, I think.
Also, I wonder if they had some sort of megaphone. The Greeks knew the principle of a speaking tube, since short ones were incorporated in the masks their actors always wore.
Another resource on this question would be medieval accounts of famous preachers, who sometimes preached to very large crowds outdoors. On the other hand, some of the churches of the Franciscans and Dominicans, one of whose most important assignment was preaching, were built not as long rectangles but more like squares, so that everyone could hear and even see the preacher, and some of these could hold thousands of people closely packed. As I recall, some historians call these "barn churches," You can see some of these in Siena, But probably there was less ambient noise than outdoors. In any case, the accounts of outdoor preaching would form a good source of data on how well and how a speaker could be heard by a large crowd,
"The enemy is a stinky poo"
- Probably not Caesar.