The ridiculousness of this all, was that they were looking for David Koresh. He jogged by himself, every morning off the compound sight. They could have easily got him there.
@@nochannel1q2321 they weren’t there for david koresh the atf had no interest in david nor those poor children they only had interest in what was in the house because the davidians had been taking semi automatic rifles and converting them to full auto that’s the only reason why the atf showed interest that’s why they never attempted to capture david or gain any intel on david beforehand they cared about them manufacturing fully automatic weapons and distributing them that’s it regardless of what the atf says
That incident is a blight on American history and an utter failure of the government and local authorities in dealing with it, just like Ruby Ridge. Seems like we never learn.
Maybe they shouldn’t have shot at our guys, ever think of that? Did you know this monster SA’d the kids in there? Whoever he chose out of the girls or women had to have sex with this pos?
meh, raised the avg IQ of the country that day. Tf where these people thinking buying into this shit and bringing their children in there? No respect for religious zealots
ahaha was fucking hilarious. I just love how theres no other place in society where you can do this, just be like okay boys sry but i need to fuck ALL of your wives. Alright ladies, right this way, it's gonna be difficult to fit all 20 of you in my room and to attend to all of your needs but I am teh man for teh job. * electric guitar *
909 people died in 1978 at the Jonestown murder/ suicide. Because of cult leader Jim Jones. You should do one of the many videos surrounding that terrible tragedy.
@@Kjetilstorm Very Tragic, have you read R.Jay Liftons book on cold war era brainwashing. I truly do mean this. I'm sorry for the loss you felt and many other loses that resulted from this evolutionary development.
I was 28 years old and they showed this live on TV....realizing at that moment small children were dying, I couldn't sleep after for a couple days. It was the worst feeling ever to watch a building burn in real time with kids inside. One of those things I wanted to turn away, but I was standing looking at the screen in shock.
I was a kid in school watching this because our teacher wanted to show us real America. Politics aside, watching peers burn and understanding that it was a choice people made really instilled consequences of actions. I’m sure these days they would not roll in the TV and show the live news of an event like this to a bunch of 6th graders in midstate NC, but I’m glad they did. I had only heard stories of Ruby Ridge, this was a way I could understand how both sides could do wrong and people on both sides suffered from “leaders” failing.
I don't know how it relates to gun fights, but in Florida where I live "mutual combat" is legal. 2 men can agree to fistfight an they won't be breaking any laws. Now if they fight in a public space, it's still disturbing the peace or whatever, but they don't get charged for assault and battery.
I was 23 years old working at a hospital in Texas just 4 hours away when this happened. It was all over the news for weeks . I remember talking to a nurse in a patients room who was watching it also saying to them, " Why does Jesus need to wear glasses?" 😆
Koresh didn't think he was Jesus, he thought he was a second messiah. Jesus was the sinless messiah so he needed to be the sinful messiah. He was a bit off the beaten path from mainstream Christianity.
@@DisorientedWanderer Little high? Dude definitely got a hold of some shrooms or acid. I've never met a pot head who thought he was a prophet, messiah, god after getting stoned. lol
To be fair in classical christian theology Jesus is not the only messiah, far from it, not even the first. The first being Cyrus the Great who freed the Jews from Babylon. As others have said, modern messiahs rarely think they are Jesus. Sounds like you and the co-worker should brush up on the cult and relevant theology.
The thing that stood out to me the most about this story when I did my own research was that Koresh made weekly trips into town for supplies and the authorities knew that. They could have just picked him up quietly and then maybe had an easier time getting the proper search warrants and executing them if Koresh hadn't been able to be present in the compound, directing its defense. It makes me wonder what the actual motive was behind the people near the top of this whole thing. It makes me wonder how common it is for large central governments in general to fake or exaggerate perceived threats to freedom or democracy in order to get laws passed that have names that sound like they will prevent tyranny but actually just trample upon individual rights without making anyone any safer in reality.
It's impossible to hear the fully fleshed out details of this incident and not come away at least partially blaming the ATF and FBI for this one. Ultimately, these agencies act with complete immunity. If you are targeted by the Feds, you name names or do time or die. Without the specter of accountability, there isn't much of an onus on either of these bodies to go the less bloody route.
The blissfully ignorant sheep will call you a “conspiracy theorist” and dismiss you as a nutter. Brilliant observation and comment, by the way! It’s great to see that we are not all asleep.
Groups like the FBI and CIA knowingly rouse events like this from insane people like him. Look at Columbine. An arresting officer from a year before the event r*ped both of them, as a form of trauma-induced mind control. There were two more helpers to the shooting, with 62 witness accounts. Uvalde was literally a Columbine event. They supplied the guy with $5,000 minimum worth of guns and ammo. A Wendy's job doesn't pay for that. The cops didn't react to Columbine, and they also didn't react to Uvalde. This has been happening for decades.
Its reason was the ATF needed a win after ruby ridge. They were under massive scrutiny and thought disarming a doomsday cult would help their case. Not only could they have apprehended Kuresh when he was away from the compound but Kuresh even invited them to investigate before the raid. They declined the invitation yet still put them under investigation. Also the investigation started because dummy grenades were found in one of the cults packages which is completely in line with stuff a group would sell at a gun show. That's why the narrative changed about the raid. It went from illegal firearms to saving abused children.
Simply going on your last statement about trampling on individual rights, is it an individual right to have sex with underage girls, including having sex with a girl as young as twelve? Koresh was a total piece of shit and doesn't represent freedom unless one has a total warped sense of freedom that accepts and glorifies the trampling and abuse of other people.
1995 OKC bomber McVeigh was inspired mostly by this and another incident at Ruby Ridge (Montana I think). What a complete disaster. Lot of blame to go around but the ATF could have easily de-escalated this right off the bat. This video was ok, but there is a great documentary about this as well as a movie
Waco was a massive ineptitude and corruption of the Feds, not just Reno. They could have grabbed Koresh multiple times during that day anywhere outside the compound because they had a warrant for him. But, huge but here. But they wanted a legal way to get in the compound w/o a warrant for the compound. How do you do that? You ID him and then let him go in the compound. Now you have probable cause. He was outside the compound and identified by them for hours before he returned. A lot of ppl died because of the Feds shadiness of trying to do an end around of the Fourth Amendment.
I usually support law enforcement but I believe this whole debacle could have been avoided by arresting him when he left the compound. Instead the FBI/ATF had to mound an open assault on the compound endangering the lives of numerous children. The result in the end was the lives of many children were cut short. I just believe this could have been handled in a different manner.
Waco was a massive ineptitude and corruption of the Feds, not just Reno. They could have grabbed Koresh multiple times during that day anywhere outside the compound because they had a warrant for him. But, huge but here. But they wanted a legal way to get in the compound w/o a warrant for the compound. How do you do that? You ID him and then let him go in the compound. Now you have probable cause. He was outside the compound and identified by them for hours before he returned. A lot of ppl died because of the Feds shadiness of trying to do an end around of the Fourth Amendment.
Maybe, but they also needed evidence to arrest, other than rumor, or hearsay. So that's why they attempted to execute the search warrant, covertly. But because of a leak, and a true idiot of a reporter, a peaceful search was out of the question. Both sides are to blame, but it started out being planned to most any protocol.
@@rukus9585 the leak was by the ATF. They wanted the publicity because there were talks in the government of shutting the ATF down. After Ruby Ridge they needed a big win and they were hoping this would be it. The ATF knew Koresh commonly left the compound and went into town they had observed this themselves in the lead up to the raid. They could have easily waited until he left the compound then arrested him. In fact Koresh invited federal agents to enter the compound and take a look around previous but they turned him down and opted for a raid instead.
This whole thing couldve go e really simple. They couldve picked him up when he went into town or went running but the ATF needed a big raid to make them.look important after ruby ridge because they were on the verge of being disbanded. The name of tne operation was even "operation showtime" the whole could have been avoided. I blame the ATF for all of it
@@Grizazzle Seems like you missed the part where their source of income was selling guns with an FFL license, next time follow along before commenting, "Period".
Wow. I remember when this happened. The news had said that David Koresh lit the place on fire. This is the first time hearing that the military may have done it. McVeigh bombed Oklahoma one year later on the exact same day. April 19.
What's really upsetting is the jackbooted thugs of the ATF had a arrest warrant not search warrant and David koresh jogged on the road every morning and they could have arrested him without incident but they wanted to storm the compound, the local sheriff said he could get David to come in before the raid but the jackbooted thugs wanted blood
Watch the documentary Waco Rules of Engagement. Great documentary about this. The feds lit the building on fire in multiple places knowing that there were women and children inside. Pretty much everything you've learned from the corporate press is the narrative of the feds. The FBI knew that the OKC bombing was going to happen because they had an informant. They allowed the bombing to happen. Look up the video "what you need to know about the Oklahoma city bombing Scott Horton"
@@JRush374 yeah after Waco I lost all trust in the department of justice and their alphabet gangs and I live in OKC in fact for 3 years I lived in a high rise apartment across the street from the bombing memorial and of course they knew what was going to happen and my advice to anyone is never trust the media or the government they don't have your best interest at heart
Depends who you ask and who you choose to believe. Some say it was the FBI, some say the cultist, and others say it was a freak accident caused by a mix of the flammable tear gas and an exposed wire.
I don't agree with religious cults but they were literally just exercising their freedom. The fact that you guys side with the atf in this video is crazy.
@@iped1811 No such thing as “firearm crimes” if nobody was murdered. The 2nd Amendment says shall not be infringed for a reason. Any gun law is an infringement on the 2nd amendment.
@@joesutherland9354 there is. If you rob a bank with a firearm you automatically get more time in prison. Armed robbery is different than regular robbery.
@@iped1811 That’s not what you insinuated and that’s not what they did yet you said they committed “firearm crimes” yet you didn’t explain what crime they committed.
Watch the Netflix limited series on this. The ATF has still to this day not been held accountable for the murder of all of the innocent people from that day. They fired first, and tried to say they were fired upon.
You can’t do a Waco video without doing a video on Ruby Ridge. Almost identical. One of the agents that was on the ground was promoted after Waco, and was responsible for the slaughter of innocent people at Ruby Ridge including a small child. That man was head leader of the ATF untill just recently when he was asked to define and explain something that he is supposed to be knowledgeable of since he is in charge of regulations for it (I’ll leave it at that) I should also say, the sniper who took the shot and killed a woman and child was being charged by the state, but the federal government took the case claiming it is a federal matter because it is a federal agent, and instead of making their own case, the immediately dropped it and let him free. That agent was also at Waco
I call BS! Although the death of a child is regrettable, the Ruby Ridge crowd was just as bat sh!t crazy and as dangerous as the Waco crowd. You need to come out of the cultists rabbit hole!
If I remember correctly, one of the kids fired the first shot at the agents in the woods. The agents shot at the dog as it was attacking, then the kid shot at them. That’s not innocent lol.
I remember this, I grew up about 100 miles north but the media and the ATF all share blame for that disaster. A newspaper in Waco had been running a series of stories about the Dividians and about a hundred miles north in the Dallas area a TV station had been tip off by the ATF public relations asking for a contact person because there might be some activity in the area. The media was lined up along the street when the ATF pulled up. I remember just after Sunday morning cartoons had gone off around 12 pm and a local news station was airing the shootout live. My dad wanted to watch it but I wasn’t too interested. Then the day it burned down just happened to have a day off school and we’re about to go out and the 12 pm news was on with news of the fire.
@@johnbrown8570 well if the undercover ATF agent gets exposed and goes back and tells the ATF to cancel because they know your coming and the go anyway, what did the ATF leadership expect? Second, it was someone in ATF public relations that tipped off the media that “something may be going this weekend” so already aware of the “Sinful Messiah”series from the Waco Tribune, it didn’t take much for the media to figure out what was about to happen. Furthermore there were cameras lined up along the street when the ATF arrived, it didn’t take much for the Branch Dividians to figure out what was about to happen and the fact that Koresh’s brother-in-law was accidentally tipped off. Long story short the entire operation was compromised before the ATF even left their staging area but their search warrant was set to expire so ATF leadership went ahead anyway.
I was completely oblivious to why so many people hate the ATF in America until I became a gun owner and really researched why. Essentially, they have a jurisdiction that is almost entirely outside of the constitution and federal law. They are protected by federal immunity, which is exactly what it sounds like (will basically always be protected for anything they do under the guise of the ATF). On top of this, they have the ability to essentially, on a whim, completely change what is acceptable for specific aspects of firearms. You can, on the ATFs whim, go from a law abiding citizen, to felony possession of a firearm.
@@mattmurphy24 do you mean what I'm saying is nonsense? Or the fact that they exist the way they do is nonsense? They should follow the constitution. And yet they can, on a whim, determine what is a legally acceptable firearm and what is not. Not even just 'sorry but you can't own a hellfire missile,' but to the point that they made it illegal to shoulder an AR Pistol... Like, you're commiting a felony of you shoulder an AR Pistol. That is not the constitution. That is not a decision by Congress. It was literally the ATF just making it up. There's so much more as well. So your research, and you will be surprised.
@@Marthyboy88 Its complete nonsense that the ATF is operating outside the constitution and laws. The ATF thinks National Firearms Act of 1934 gives them authority to regulate AR pistols. This can be challenged in the courts. Its the way things work. It's not operating outside the laws. Based on what I've searched ATF may require people to register AR pistols and pay a tax. They are not making these illegal.
@@mattmurphy24 No, you have to NOW pay a tax based on the ATF's decision. And if you don't have your stamp and get caught, it is a felony. They changed the rules. Someone could have lawfully purchased an AR pistol, and then after the change, if they didn't have a stamp, it would be a felony. Look into the letters they've issued since 2015. They're going back and forth between what is acceptable and what is not
@@hollyw638 Yes.. unfortunately. There was a daycare center of sorts set up in the building for employees, so very sadly, quite a few children were killed. There's a memorial site set up now and we remember those lost every year on the date in April. Absolutely devastating indeed..
I live about an hour from Waco and as tragic and awful as the Waco incident is the town is still recovering but has become more known for the success of Baylor’s athletics achievements. Baylor is a popular college and a destination a lot of aspiring athletes. Most of them that are too young to remember or don’t even know about this. In my recently deleted comment I mentioned they made this into a mini series. You should watch it. Some of the clips in this video are from the show. Great reaction.
There was a tank involved, I was watching it live on TV, but it breached the compound to inject flammable tear gas which caught fire from candles inside the compound. No flame throwers used.The fire started almost immediately. I watched the place burn down. A few men tried to escape, they were fired upon, most ran back inside the compound and died inside it.
As a person who is actually from Waco, please let me say THIS DID NOT HAPPEN IN WACO! (Not yelling at y'all) It happened in a small town about 15-20 minutes north of Waco. Sadly Waco got stuck with the bad wrap of the Branch Davidian. I've had to explain this to people so much. Waco has it's own insane crimes, look up the twin peaks shooting of 2015, that did happen in Waco, or the Baylor student who killed their roommate.
Saying it was in Waco sounded better than saying it was near Elk. I live about 8 or 9 miles from where the compound was and could see the smoke from the fire from my front porch.
It came out that Koresh regularly went to town by himself or with a couple of women. He could’ve been arrested drama free, but that’s not what the feds wanted. They wanted a big show and they ended up having to assault the buildings with tanks. Everyone outside of a very few who jumped out of windows and surrendered, were burned up.
He was actually in town that morning. They waited until he went back to the compound to do their little ‘siege’. The feds wanted those ppl dead for being a thorn in their side. They took photos of themselves smiling over the body of burned corpses of kids.
I gave a thumbs up for this video, and have been a supporter for a good long while now. One bit of advice I will give you as it pertains to your American audience, specifically from the US, stay away from gun control. Absolutely nothing you say with regards to it will please a majority, and quite frankly, you have no idea how complex the issue is. I like the longer videos and approve. I am glad all three of you are together again.
I love POPOMedic videos but I believe that there is way more about the waco situation that he might not be aware of.. It’s just dirty when mother government comes after it’s people.
@@JustinJurazick I feel that's due to the shift of people/government wanting people to be reliant on the government and not self sufficient. Think of it this way. If people can be self reliant. Then what would they need certain branches/organizations of the government.
Quick notes on what the video passed over: 1. When the brother in law of Koresh was tipped off, undercover agent Rodriguez was in the compound. They knew he wasn't who he said he was but they weren't sure who he was working for. Koresh, after being told that a raid was coming, told Rodriguez that he knew they were coming for him. Rodriguez got out of the compound and gave this info to ATF, who went along with the raid. That's seen as one of the big screw ups of this operation. 2. Early in the siege, March 3rd I think, Koresh said that if one particular sermon was broadcast, everyone would leave the compound. After the FBI had a radio station broadcast the sermon, Koresh held a lengthy prayer session, and negotiators were told by his 2nd in command that God had told Koresh to wait longer. This is relevant given the FBI's decision to go in with gas despite a plan for surrender from Koresh on April 19. 3. The biggest thing overlooked by this video is the massive breakdown within the FBI. There were two competing groups, the negotiators and HRT, hostage rescue team. The negotiators had a strategy called "trickle flow gush," basically if they could get some people coming out, that would turn into more and more people, and eventually Koresh would decide to lead his people out instead of staying inside. HRT saw this as a bad theory that would waste time when they could be tightening the leash around the Davidians in order to force them out. That dichotomy was a huge factor in the failure of the FBI's work here. 4. Gary Noenser, lead negotiator of the FBI who worked here (he's in the flannel at 22:43 in your video) has said that the biggest day in all of this was March 21, when the FBI got 7 adults to leave the compound. Most of the previous exits were children, and I believe two elderly women. On the same day, HRT decided to drive tanks over several cars parked outside the compound on the theory that the Davidians could use them as cover to shoot at FBI agents. It's unclear if they developed a rationale for why the Davidians would do that on or after March 21 but hadn't between February 28 and then. That was when things broke down, and they never recovered after that.
Further quick note: The commander of HRT at Waco was FBI agent Richard Rogers, who was in charge of HRT at a previous incident referred to as Ruby Ridge, where he gave an illegal "shoot on sight" order that led to the death of the suspect's wife. I recommend doing a video on that incident as well, as both Ruby Ridge and Waco were boons to the militia movement and listed as motives for the bombing of Oklahoma City by Timothy McVeigh.
7:18 Mutual Combat laws only apply to fist fights where no serious injuries occurred. They're for when an argument with your room mate escalates into a shoving match or if two meatheads get into an altercation at the bar and go out into the parking lot to settle the matter, not for duels at high noon or gang battles. Both parties can face criminal charges if 'mutual combat' results in a serious injury or death, and the mutual combat law in Texas specifically forbids deadly weapons to be used.
They usually threaten the mom that if they leave the children has to stay behind because they belong to the cult leader. So the mom has to stay to protect the child.
During this time period prior to Oklahoma city, there was a peak of anti government militia movements in the US. My parents sold property in the Sierra Mts, they lived in the SF Bay Area, to a guy as owner financed. My dad found out he was not paying the property tax. He was a member of the "Bear Flag Republic", people who would not pay taxes because they didn't recognize the government of California , or the US. My dad took him to court and got the property back because he had to pay the taxes. The sheriff didn't want to evict the guy because he was worried about the guns , and the guys friends in the militia. Luckily, the guy eventually moved away for work. Some guy showed up at my Dad's door with a summons to appear at the court of the bear flag republic in Georgetown CA. They guy was an organizer of this movement from SF. Needless to say, My dad ignored it. There really are a lot of crazy anti government people in this country. At the time these people used Waco to fuel the fire.
I mean, I wonder why. Ruby Ridge was before this too. Reno wanted results for all of the tax dollars they pumped into the ATF so she sicked them on (admittedly dumb) people without any hesitation. Both of those situations could have been handled IMMENSELY more tame manners than they were.
Unfortunately resisting them like that rarely turns out well. But i do think they act from the right place when they understand that politicians and governments have no right to claim ownership over people who do not want them.
Really entertaining mini series on Netflix covering this event and other events leading up to it that I think you guys would get a kick out of. At least it used to be on Netflix; hopefully still is.
I worked as a 37 Foxtrot in the US Army, Psychological Operations Specialist. I can attest that we did replace the turrets on our vehicles with 8 large speakers, and play our favorite "War Songs", usually heavy metal, as we drove through the cities. We would also wear red contacts, when speaking with locals. That is true, it happened. Our intent was to intimidate the enemy into submission mentally, without firing a shot. I served in the Diyala Province of Iraq in 2007.
@@Spaghatee Can't. But Fort Hood, where we operated out of stateside, is only about an hour south of Waco. Those tanks are called BFV (Bradley Fighting Vehicles). As it pertains to who shot first, most likely the ATF, the only reason it's not fact is the ATF covering their tracks through plausible deniability.
I know for sure that the CIA has used songs by a metal band called 'Cattle Decapitation' to soften prisoners up and help to make sure they talk. Anybody who has heard cattle Decapitation would understand why it worked so well.
I went to school with one of the lads who died, he was from Manchester, England (actually Old Trafford) and i believe either 4 or 5 of his family members died (The Henry Family)
I was trainng in Ju Jitsu in the UK when 2 brothers joined the club in Manchester UK. They were in their late 50's and they told us there surname was the same as my brother and i. Their surname was Henry and informed us they were worried about another brother and his family were at WACO. Lawbreaker was correct and the family died in the fire I believe..
Reports after the tragedy were that, among many other government failures, Koresh regularly jogged outside the compound and could have easily been picked up without a full scale siege. Also that women and children had been sent to an underground bunker (a buried bus or something) and could have been spared.
I had a teacher who played mens volleyball at the University of Minnesota, and he said they had a game at Baylor University (which is in Waco) while this was going on. He said that after that game they were in a plane that happened to be flying over the compound, and his buddy sitting next to him was joking about dropping a match on it from the plane to burn it. Well when they landed at their destination they saw on all the TVs the compound had been set on fire
I think what OB Dave is thinking about regarding the tank/flamethrower video is from Waco but it was a battering ram on a armored vehicle to bust the upper windows to throw in said flammable gas. The compound went up shortly after that
Timothy McVeigh bombed the Murrah federal building which housed parts of the FBI, ATF and others. The building was selected to be bombed based solely on the involvement of the FBI and ATF at the compound. He saw it as a war between the US government and the people. He acted in retaliation. I personally feel that what he did was important, even as tragic as it was. If only as a reminder of what one American is capable of doing if our government does cross the line. When the government fears the people you have democracy. When the people fear the government you have tyranny.
@@lornawestlake9280 I'm not saying Timothy was a hero by any stretch of the imagination. He didn't know the building had a daycare center for the employees children. He said in an interview that had he known, he would have chosen a different location. If such a place as hell exists, I'm sure he is there.
I was Seventh Day Adventist for a few years as a child. We never wore any special clothes. Can’t eat pork or shrimp and Sabbath starts Friday evening to Saturday evening.
They could have picked up David at any time while in town but the incompetence of the ATF was insane, instead they came after him while surrounded by innocent children!
After the Ruby Ridge debacle the new Administration needed to "do it right," which they quickly proceeded to screw up. This is a guv'mint operation after all. They could have just grabbed David by each elbow when he was in town eating pizza and escorted him to a car. NO! 77 people died.
Netflix or Hulu did a movie or TV series on this and it was eye opening! All of those people died because the FBI/ATF wanted to put on a show and then blamed the cult for the tragedy. They had ample opptortunity to arrest David when he was out and about but chose this outcome! Also, the cult members tried to protect the kids by putting them bunkers/cellars and when people did try to walk out of the building, they killed them which caused the remaining members to stay put. This doc left out alot...
no this was no ones fault but the pedo cult leader. The FBI tried, and could they have done better? Probably. But look at Jonestown, they all called themselves for their cult leader. They got their kids taken away, then given back where they were killed, by their parents and fellow followers. Some where killed by bullets from the cops, but looking at cause of death, it was from each other.
I was station at Ft Hood TX. ATF/FBI came to my Battalion and was given Bradley's Fighting Vehicle. M88 (Recovery Vehicle) night devices to use to go on or get David out, didn't go as planned, plus they wanted the Bradley's to uploaded with ammo, Army said wasn't going to happen. It ended badly, to think they could have arrested him months earky..
Crazy how a lot of these Cults start from Religious groups .. that’s how they get you .. “ Blind Faith “ I find it hard to believe in blind faith to a person and not to God personally… I found it hard to have Blind Faith wit God in the first place …
Lol. Patriotism is cultish behavior. Most human behavior is cultish in nature where groups are concerned. It may feel good to blame religion but the reality is that cults come in a all flavors both secular and religious. The military, law enforcement, corporate structure and government 8n general all exhibit cult like behaviors.
There's a lot of cults that try to mimic Christian theology because they know the actual power of it. The real stuff is always powerful, and counterfeits always delude the gullible into thinking it's profound as well. Mormonism is the same thing. If you know the history and origin, it's a looney religion at best. It's started the same way this cult did.
@@Sprayber yeah I agree but when you see these extreme cults start wit these religious figures like David Koresh and Jim Jones .. people are so weird and crazy man 🤦🏻♂️ kind of embarrassing how crazy we can be ..
@@A-A-RonDavis2470 I seen somewhere that they found some religious thing that said religion started wit Mushrooms 🍄.. people found mushrooms and started tripping out and the things the imagined when they tripped they considered that God .. and religious people tried to hide it because religion coming from a drug was look at something bad … it makes sense when you say people are crazy/weird when is comes to religion 😂
To answer the question about Mutual Combat: yes that is a thing. I got into a drunk scuffle with a guy that ended with me almost cutting his arm off above the elbow with an 8" chefs knife. When the police arrived they asked each of us if we wanted to press charges on the other and we both declined. The police officer had to put it in the report as mutual combat and neither of us were charged. However...I believe a DA may pursue charges if he wishes but, I'm not positive about that.
And I will say, even though Mike was away auditioning for The Masked Singer, he's way more vocal (Pun intended) and interacting more than any video ever lol
The Oklahoma City bombing happened on April 19th, 1995, exactly two years after the Waco Texas siege ended and the compound was burned down on April 19th, 1993.
The mutual combat depends on the State. Each State has their own rules too. I lived in Kentucky for 4 yrs and their mutual combat rule said something along the lines that both agreeing parties had to duel at noon in the town center. It's an old law not practiced today, but still on the books. But modern laws conflict with it.
Dave is right about the SDA, they were featured in a Geography Now video about the worst and weirdest places in the U.S. The Branch Dividian is a sub sect of that church.
Mutual combat is only allowed in certain states. For example, in Texas, if both parties agree & go out back, don’t endanger others, don’t interrupt traffic, etc, it’s completely legal. It only covers hand to hand combat, though, use of weapons is still illegal unless you’re the one pulling one to defend yourself from the one the other guy pulled first. There are other states that allow mutual combat as well, but I’m not sure of the actual details of what’s covered.
You guys should check out the “Ruby Ridge” incident also. That was a ranch vs the FBI back In the 90’s I believe. Btw the mutual combat you’re talking g about happened in Chicago between 2 rival gangs.
My ex father in law was a part of the "congregation" for a while. He left before the bad stuff happened. He said when he realized they were running guns, thats when he got out. I met his daughter when i was stationed at Hood. Shouldve seen the red flags from 10 miles away! 😂😂😂😂😂
Our law enforcement agencies could have grabbed David Koresh on over 50 occasions when he frequently went out town to buy supplies and groceries. They had a warrant for his detainment (for statutory r-e), they were watching him for weeks before this occurred, and they saw him out about in town on many occasions. They also had an opportunity to talk to David Koresh when they called his firearm dealer for information- David just so happened to be there and when he went to get on the phone, the agents hung up. All of this tells me they wanted this stand off. This massacre. It was an example for the public. None of what I have said here excuses or permits David’s crimes. There is no doubt that David Koresh broke the law and he had a debt to pay for these crimes. But what went down was avoidable and a tragedy. They murdered a lot of innocent people there including 19-22 children (depending on the source). They ran them over with tanks. They started the fire with their tear gas canisters. They were machine gunning people down who were trying to escape. This is all shown in another documentary .. with FLIR footage and a Congressional investigation which is very important.
In Vietnam the USA used helicopters with loudspeakers to make the VC think the spirits of their dead were damned to hell or something. Was very scary especially in the darkness in the jungle.
I'm 99.9% with you on the laws of man bit leading to nutters most of the time but there is one quote I remember from a documentary called Sunshine Superman about Carl Boenish, the man who invented Base jumping (skydiving/parachuting from fixed objects), once said (in regards to the national parks trying to arrest him for jumping Yosemite and the police for jumping buildings vs what the universal laws about what a man can and can't do say) "The laws of man are temporary at best." It's the one time I've heard it said and felt like, yeah, this guy is right and I think I wanna take that advice in that context very seriously, still gives me chills enough that I typed this whole thing out! Lol Great show, fellas 🍻
The group that pickets the soldiers, and others, funerals are the Westboro Baptist Church. It was mostly just a large family group and I think since the demented father passed away many years ago they are not very active anymore. But they are still out there and they do still picket.
Just think if the British SAS Counter Terrorism Unit had been called in to end this, I know they wouldn't of been there as they are of course British but at the end of the day I would always want the SAS to save me then any American unit.
The ridiculousness of this all, was that they were looking for David Koresh. He jogged by himself, every morning off the compound sight. They could have easily got him there.
There was a warrant for his arrest, but they were executing a search warrant on the compound.
And that’s what exactly they would do today. And they would probably exchange karesh for guns.
@@nochannel1q2321 they weren’t there for david koresh the atf had no interest in david nor those poor children they only had interest in what was in the house because the davidians had been taking semi automatic rifles and converting them to full auto that’s the only reason why the atf showed interest that’s why they never attempted to capture david or gain any intel on david beforehand they cared about them manufacturing fully automatic weapons and distributing them that’s it regardless of what the atf says
They wanted positive action publicity lol, that's why they decided to do a show of force.
Well that’s the atf for you, they’d rather kill kids all for guns instead of nabbing the guy the entire operation was for.
That incident is a blight on American history and an utter failure of the government and local authorities in dealing with it, just like Ruby Ridge. Seems like we never learn.
And we still got cults like Scientology who government even gave tax exemptions to
Both incidents should be viewed like Wounded Knee or the Philippine War
Maybe they shouldn’t have shot at our guys, ever think of that? Did you know this monster SA’d the kids in there? Whoever he chose out of the girls or women had to have sex with this pos?
Both incidents were purposeful
meh, raised the avg IQ of the country that day. Tf where these people thinking buying into this shit and bringing their children in there? No respect for religious zealots
Mike’s “here we go” at about 10:49 just killed me 😂😂😂.
Priceless
ahaha was fucking hilarious.
I just love how theres no other place in society where you can do this, just be like okay boys sry but i need to fuck ALL of your wives. Alright ladies, right this way, it's gonna be difficult to fit all 20 of you in my room and to attend to all of your needs but I am teh man for teh job. * electric guitar *
You beat me to this comment 😂😂
909 people died in 1978 at the Jonestown murder/ suicide. Because of cult leader Jim Jones. You should do one of the many videos surrounding that terrible tragedy.
I lost two cousins in this
@@Kjetilstorm so sorry! I remember being 8 years old and remember how I wss affected by this. I shot so much reacting researching this! So traffic!
Not everyone died there. There are survivors that said like a couple hundred of them escaped into the jungle. Everyone always think they ALL died.
@@Kjetilstorm Very Tragic, have you read R.Jay Liftons book on cold war era brainwashing.
I truly do mean this. I'm sorry for the loss you felt and many other loses that resulted from this evolutionary development.
I was 28 years old and they showed this live on TV....realizing at that moment small children were dying, I couldn't sleep after for a couple days. It was the worst feeling ever to watch a building burn in real time with kids inside. One of those things I wanted to turn away, but I was standing looking at the screen in shock.
What about when he was f***ing minors. ... were u able to sleep just fine then ?
I was a kid in school watching this because our teacher wanted to show us real America. Politics aside, watching peers burn and understanding that it was a choice people made really instilled consequences of actions.
I’m sure these days they would not roll in the TV and show the live news of an event like this to a bunch of 6th graders in midstate NC, but I’m glad they did. I had only heard stories of Ruby Ridge, this was a way I could understand how both sides could do wrong and people on both sides suffered from “leaders” failing.
So you say, but didn't thousands of people picnic during the shootout?
I don't know how it relates to gun fights, but in Florida where I live "mutual combat" is legal. 2 men can agree to fistfight an they won't be breaking any laws. Now if they fight in a public space, it's still disturbing the peace or whatever, but they don't get charged for assault and battery.
thats sick
@@scwyd6769 It's Florida, don't be surprised.
@@willvr4 washington also allows mutual combat
@@pmbbmp If they both agree they shouldn't face charges if they fight, then why should they?
@@pmbbmp yea. if they both agree who cares. one is gonna get put in their place in the end
I'm glad yall found Mike. He was missed.
I was 23 years old working at a hospital in Texas just 4 hours away when this happened. It was all over the news for weeks . I remember talking to a nurse in a patients room who was watching it also saying to them, " Why does Jesus need to wear glasses?" 😆
Koresh didn't think he was Jesus, he thought he was a second messiah. Jesus was the sinless messiah so he needed to be the sinful messiah. He was a bit off the beaten path from mainstream Christianity.
@@lizd2943 sounds to me like he got a little too high and read the new testament from beginning to end.
@@DisorientedWandererAnd justifies the government burning kids in their beds?
@@DisorientedWanderer
Little high? Dude definitely got a hold of some shrooms or acid. I've never met a pot head who thought he was a prophet, messiah, god after getting stoned. lol
To be fair in classical christian theology Jesus is not the only messiah, far from it, not even the first. The first being Cyrus the Great who freed the Jews from Babylon. As others have said, modern messiahs rarely think they are Jesus. Sounds like you and the co-worker should brush up on the cult and relevant theology.
The thing that stood out to me the most about this story when I did my own research was that Koresh made weekly trips into town for supplies and the authorities knew that. They could have just picked him up quietly and then maybe had an easier time getting the proper search warrants and executing them if Koresh hadn't been able to be present in the compound, directing its defense. It makes me wonder what the actual motive was behind the people near the top of this whole thing. It makes me wonder how common it is for large central governments in general to fake or exaggerate perceived threats to freedom or democracy in order to get laws passed that have names that sound like they will prevent tyranny but actually just trample upon individual rights without making anyone any safer in reality.
It's impossible to hear the fully fleshed out details of this incident and not come away at least partially blaming the ATF and FBI for this one. Ultimately, these agencies act with complete immunity. If you are targeted by the Feds, you name names or do time or die. Without the specter of accountability, there isn't much of an onus on either of these bodies to go the less bloody route.
The blissfully ignorant sheep will call you a “conspiracy theorist” and dismiss you as a nutter. Brilliant observation and comment, by the way! It’s great to see that we are not all asleep.
Groups like the FBI and CIA knowingly rouse events like this from insane people like him. Look at Columbine. An arresting officer from a year before the event r*ped both of them, as a form of trauma-induced mind control. There were two more helpers to the shooting, with 62 witness accounts. Uvalde was literally a Columbine event. They supplied the guy with $5,000 minimum worth of guns and ammo. A Wendy's job doesn't pay for that. The cops didn't react to Columbine, and they also didn't react to Uvalde. This has been happening for decades.
Its reason was the ATF needed a win after ruby ridge. They were under massive scrutiny and thought disarming a doomsday cult would help their case. Not only could they have apprehended Kuresh when he was away from the compound but Kuresh even invited them to investigate before the raid. They declined the invitation yet still put them under investigation. Also the investigation started because dummy grenades were found in one of the cults packages which is completely in line with stuff a group would sell at a gun show. That's why the narrative changed about the raid. It went from illegal firearms to saving abused children.
Simply going on your last statement about trampling on individual rights, is it an individual right to have sex with underage girls, including having sex with a girl as young as twelve? Koresh was a total piece of shit and doesn't represent freedom unless one has a total warped sense of freedom that accepts and glorifies the trampling and abuse of other people.
1995 OKC bomber McVeigh was inspired mostly by this and another incident at Ruby Ridge (Montana I think). What a complete disaster. Lot of blame to go around but the ATF could have easily de-escalated this right off the bat. This video was ok, but there is a great documentary about this as well as a movie
Waco was a massive ineptitude and corruption of the Feds, not just Reno. They could have grabbed Koresh multiple times during that day anywhere outside the compound because they had a warrant for him. But, huge but here. But they wanted a legal way to get in the compound w/o a warrant for the compound. How do you do that? You ID him and then let him go in the compound. Now you have probable cause. He was outside the compound and identified by them for hours before he returned. A lot of ppl died because of the Feds shadiness of trying to do an end around of the Fourth Amendment.
Waco Rules of Engagement is a great documentary about this
Ruby Ridge, Idaho
He also was a vet and tired of the shit
@@coltoneast2164 still...no reason to kill a bunch old children that had nothing to do with that! Plus, Koresh was a creep!
I usually support law enforcement but I believe this whole debacle could have been avoided by arresting him when he left the compound. Instead the FBI/ATF had to mound an open assault on the compound endangering the lives of numerous children. The result in the end was the lives of many children were cut short. I just believe this could have been handled in a different manner.
Waco was a massive ineptitude and corruption of the Feds, not just Reno. They could have grabbed Koresh multiple times during that day anywhere outside the compound because they had a warrant for him. But, huge but here. But they wanted a legal way to get in the compound w/o a warrant for the compound. How do you do that? You ID him and then let him go in the compound. Now you have probable cause. He was outside the compound and identified by them for hours before he returned. A lot of ppl died because of the Feds shadiness of trying to do an end around of the Fourth Amendment.
How can you usually support law enforcement when they routinely violate the constitution
Maybe, but they also needed evidence to arrest, other than rumor, or hearsay. So that's why they attempted to execute the search warrant, covertly. But because of a leak, and a true idiot of a reporter, a peaceful search was out of the question. Both sides are to blame, but it started out being planned to most any protocol.
@@rukus9585 the leak was by the ATF. They wanted the publicity because there were talks in the government of shutting the ATF down. After Ruby Ridge they needed a big win and they were hoping this would be it. The ATF knew Koresh commonly left the compound and went into town they had observed this themselves in the lead up to the raid. They could have easily waited until he left the compound then arrested him. In fact Koresh invited federal agents to enter the compound and take a look around previous but they turned him down and opted for a raid instead.
They cant arrest someone with no evidence, they needed to search the compound
This whole thing couldve go e really simple. They couldve picked him up when he went into town or went running but the ATF needed a big raid to make them.look important after ruby ridge because they were on the verge of being disbanded. The name of tne operation was even "operation showtime" the whole could have been avoided. I blame the ATF for all of it
Kuresh had an arsenal of weapons and unless his church were literally worshipping the guns, there was no need for them. Period.
@@Grizazzle Seems like you missed the part where their source of income was selling guns with an FFL license, next time follow along before commenting, "Period".
@@Grizazzle since when is it illegal to own lots of guns in America?
@@aj897 and you missed the part of them turning semi automatics into fully automatics making it illegal.
Or it could've been really simple and he could've surrendered.
Wow. I remember when this happened. The news had said that David Koresh lit the place on fire.
This is the first time hearing that the military may have done it.
McVeigh bombed Oklahoma one year later on the exact same day. April 19.
The FBI/ATF threw a Tear gas canister that started the fire. It’s well known
What's really upsetting is the jackbooted thugs of the ATF had a arrest warrant not search warrant and David koresh jogged on the road every morning and they could have arrested him without incident but they wanted to storm the compound, the local sheriff said he could get David to come in before the raid but the jackbooted thugs wanted blood
Watch the documentary Waco Rules of Engagement. Great documentary about this. The feds lit the building on fire in multiple places knowing that there were women and children inside. Pretty much everything you've learned from the corporate press is the narrative of the feds.
The FBI knew that the OKC bombing was going to happen because they had an informant. They allowed the bombing to happen. Look up the video "what you need to know about the Oklahoma city bombing Scott Horton"
@@JRush374 yeah after Waco I lost all trust in the department of justice and their alphabet gangs and I live in OKC in fact for 3 years I lived in a high rise apartment across the street from the bombing memorial and of course they knew what was going to happen and my advice to anyone is never trust the media or the government they don't have your best interest at heart
Depends who you ask and who you choose to believe. Some say it was the FBI, some say the cultist, and others say it was a freak accident caused by a mix of the flammable tear gas and an exposed wire.
I don't agree with religious cults but they were literally just exercising their freedom. The fact that you guys side with the atf in this video is crazy.
Religious freedom doesn’t provide safe harbor for statutory rape and firearm crimes.
@@iped1811 No such thing as “firearm crimes” if nobody was murdered. The 2nd Amendment says shall not be infringed for a reason. Any gun law is an infringement on the 2nd amendment.
@@joesutherland9354 there is. If you rob a bank with a firearm you automatically get more time in prison. Armed robbery is different than regular robbery.
@@iped1811 That’s not what you insinuated and that’s not what they did yet you said they committed “firearm crimes” yet you didn’t explain what crime they committed.
this docu left so much out.
You guys should react to the video about the thief that lived inside a toys r us for an entire year
Watch the Netflix limited series on this. The ATF has still to this day not been held accountable for the murder of all of the innocent people from that day. They fired first, and tried to say they were fired upon.
The cult got what they deserved.
Then burned almost 80 people alive
@@bigbake132 so you support killing children? Yeah those little boys and girls were so dangerous.
You can’t do a Waco video without doing a video on Ruby Ridge. Almost identical. One of the agents that was on the ground was promoted after Waco, and was responsible for the slaughter of innocent people at Ruby Ridge including a small child. That man was head leader of the ATF untill just recently when he was asked to define and explain something that he is supposed to be knowledgeable of since he is in charge of regulations for it (I’ll leave it at that) I should also say, the sniper who took the shot and killed a woman and child was being charged by the state, but the federal government took the case claiming it is a federal matter because it is a federal agent, and instead of making their own case, the immediately dropped it and let him free. That agent was also at Waco
These two situations where nowhere near identical unless you want to include silly white dudes to think they can take over the government
I call BS! Although the death of a child is regrettable, the Ruby Ridge crowd was just as bat sh!t crazy and as dangerous as the Waco crowd. You need to come out of the cultists rabbit hole!
If I remember correctly, one of the kids fired the first shot at the agents in the woods. The agents shot at the dog as it was attacking, then the kid shot at them. That’s not innocent lol.
@@johnbrown8570 so the baby they killed was armed?
@@danielgregory5928 did I say that? Learn to read.
I remember this, I grew up about 100 miles north but the media and the ATF all share blame for that disaster.
A newspaper in Waco had been running a series of stories about the Dividians and about a hundred miles north in the Dallas area a TV station had been tip off by the ATF public relations asking for a contact person because there might be some activity in the area. The media was lined up along the street when the ATF pulled up.
I remember just after Sunday morning cartoons had gone off around 12 pm and a local news station was airing the shootout live. My dad wanted to watch it but I wasn’t too interested.
Then the day it burned down just happened to have a day off school and we’re about to go out and the 12 pm news was on with news of the fire.
But Dave was an angel, HE HAS BLOOD ON HIS HANDS !!
Right, the media and agents. But never the cultists?
U forgot to add the cultists in their for the blame 😂
@@richardcole9308 never said he was.
@@johnbrown8570 well if the undercover ATF agent gets exposed and goes back and tells the ATF to cancel because they know your coming and the go anyway, what did the ATF leadership expect?
Second, it was someone in ATF public relations that tipped off the media that “something may be going this weekend” so already aware of the “Sinful Messiah”series from the Waco Tribune, it didn’t take much for the media to figure out what was about to happen. Furthermore there were cameras lined up along the street when the ATF arrived, it didn’t take much for the Branch Dividians to figure out what was about to happen and the fact that Koresh’s brother-in-law was accidentally tipped off.
Long story short the entire operation was compromised before the ATF even left their staging area but their search warrant was set to expire so ATF leadership went ahead anyway.
Aquitted after a 45 minute gunfight lmao - I can't tap a break impatiently at a light without getting pulled over lmao
“The tank must’ve been fake” They show the tank in this video 😂
I was completely oblivious to why so many people hate the ATF in America until I became a gun owner and really researched why.
Essentially, they have a jurisdiction that is almost entirely outside of the constitution and federal law. They are protected by federal immunity, which is exactly what it sounds like (will basically always be protected for anything they do under the guise of the ATF). On top of this, they have the ability to essentially, on a whim, completely change what is acceptable for specific aspects of firearms. You can, on the ATFs whim, go from a law abiding citizen, to felony possession of a firearm.
Facts. Abolish the ATF!
Complete nonsense! They need to follow the laws and the constitution. Ultimately it's up to the courts and congress to ensure they do.
@@mattmurphy24 do you mean what I'm saying is nonsense? Or the fact that they exist the way they do is nonsense?
They should follow the constitution. And yet they can, on a whim, determine what is a legally acceptable firearm and what is not.
Not even just 'sorry but you can't own a hellfire missile,' but to the point that they made it illegal to shoulder an AR Pistol... Like, you're commiting a felony of you shoulder an AR Pistol. That is not the constitution. That is not a decision by Congress. It was literally the ATF just making it up.
There's so much more as well. So your research, and you will be surprised.
@@Marthyboy88 Its complete nonsense that the ATF is operating outside the constitution and laws. The ATF thinks National Firearms Act of 1934 gives them authority to regulate AR pistols. This can be challenged in the courts. Its the way things work. It's not operating outside the laws. Based on what I've searched ATF may require people to register AR pistols and pay a tax. They are not making these illegal.
@@mattmurphy24 No, you have to NOW pay a tax based on the ATF's decision. And if you don't have your stamp and get caught, it is a felony.
They changed the rules. Someone could have lawfully purchased an AR pistol, and then after the change, if they didn't have a stamp, it would be a felony.
Look into the letters they've issued since 2015. They're going back and forth between what is acceptable and what is not
Loving the long format. Welcome back fake Mike.
Great Vid! You guys have some of theses most Diverse content which deserves way more subscribes so here's Cheers to you getting that Gold Plaque
Totally agree 💯
Timothy bombed the Federal Building in April of 1995. Killed 168 and injured 680+.
😔 and was it as was mentioned in the video? Children were unfortunately killed also? Absolutely devastating either way.
@@hollyw638 Yes.. unfortunately. There was a daycare center of sorts set up in the building for employees, so very sadly, quite a few children were killed. There's a memorial site set up now and we remember those lost every year on the date in April. Absolutely devastating indeed..
Aw..bless.. 😔 I can't even begin to imagine how hard that must have been, and still is, for the family of the victims and the community as a whole. xx
I'm just too young to really remember Waco but I remember watching about okc very vividly. Horrifying.
I live about an hour from Waco and as tragic and awful as the Waco incident is the town is still recovering but has become more known for the success of Baylor’s athletics achievements. Baylor is a popular college and a destination a lot of aspiring athletes. Most of them that are too young to remember or don’t even know about this. In my recently deleted comment I mentioned they made this into a mini series. You should watch it. Some of the clips in this video are from the show. Great reaction.
I was born and raised in Austin I watched it unfold on Fox 7 ktbs it was not good at all and dude stop lying about Baylor lmao 🤣
There was a tank involved, I was watching it live on TV, but it breached the compound to inject flammable tear gas which caught fire from candles inside the compound. No flame throwers used.The fire started almost immediately. I watched the place burn down. A few men tried to escape, they were fired upon, most ran back inside the compound and died inside it.
Go ahead and look into Ruby Ridge. It sparked many distrust in government in America.
Yes
As a person who is actually from Waco, please let me say THIS DID NOT HAPPEN IN WACO! (Not yelling at y'all) It happened in a small town about 15-20 minutes north of Waco. Sadly Waco got stuck with the bad wrap of the Branch Davidian. I've had to explain this to people so much. Waco has it's own insane crimes, look up the twin peaks shooting of 2015, that did happen in Waco, or the Baylor student who killed their roommate.
Saying it was in Waco sounded better than saying it was near Elk. I live about 8 or 9 miles from where the compound was and could see the smoke from the fire from my front porch.
so it was down the road who cares
@@sgharris456 I didn't say it was I simply pointed out that it didn't happen in waco and waco has its own crazy crimes
Was is just a small town or a township?
close enough.
It came out that Koresh regularly went to town by himself or with a couple of women. He could’ve been arrested drama free, but that’s not what the feds wanted. They wanted a big show and they ended up having to assault the buildings with tanks. Everyone outside of a very few who jumped out of windows and surrendered, were burned up.
Yup president slick willy and evil Janet Reno are responsible for all the deaths
He was actually in town that morning. They waited until he went back to the compound to do their little ‘siege’. The feds wanted those ppl dead for being a thorn in their side. They took photos of themselves smiling over the body of burned corpses of kids.
The phrase “the fbi was called in to negotiate the same time the agents ran out of ammunition” is all you need to know
They were serving a search warrant he couldn’t be arrested without probable cause.
I gave a thumbs up for this video, and have been a supporter for a good long while now. One bit of advice I will give you as it pertains to your American audience, specifically from the US, stay away from gun control. Absolutely nothing you say with regards to it will please a majority, and quite frankly, you have no idea how complex the issue is. I like the longer videos and approve. I am glad all three of you are together again.
I love POPOMedic videos but I believe that there is way more about the waco situation that he might not be aware of.. It’s just dirty when mother government comes after it’s people.
For a country built on separatism the government sure hates when people try to separate from it
@@JustinJurazick I feel that's due to the shift of people/government wanting people to be reliant on the government and not self sufficient. Think of it this way. If people can be self reliant. Then what would they need certain branches/organizations of the government.
@@JustinJurazick i get what you are saying but there is no country in the world that would willingly let separation from them
The "bunkers" were actually storm shelters but bunker sounds more appealing in a news story.
LOL Dave- " I clean them" , Daz quietly looks at camera thinking...'I rest my case...'
I remember watching this on the news as it was happening..it was pretty big for the time and we didn't have the media outlets we have today
Quick notes on what the video passed over:
1. When the brother in law of Koresh was tipped off, undercover agent Rodriguez was in the compound. They knew he wasn't who he said he was but they weren't sure who he was working for. Koresh, after being told that a raid was coming, told Rodriguez that he knew they were coming for him. Rodriguez got out of the compound and gave this info to ATF, who went along with the raid. That's seen as one of the big screw ups of this operation.
2. Early in the siege, March 3rd I think, Koresh said that if one particular sermon was broadcast, everyone would leave the compound. After the FBI had a radio station broadcast the sermon, Koresh held a lengthy prayer session, and negotiators were told by his 2nd in command that God had told Koresh to wait longer. This is relevant given the FBI's decision to go in with gas despite a plan for surrender from Koresh on April 19.
3. The biggest thing overlooked by this video is the massive breakdown within the FBI. There were two competing groups, the negotiators and HRT, hostage rescue team. The negotiators had a strategy called "trickle flow gush," basically if they could get some people coming out, that would turn into more and more people, and eventually Koresh would decide to lead his people out instead of staying inside. HRT saw this as a bad theory that would waste time when they could be tightening the leash around the Davidians in order to force them out. That dichotomy was a huge factor in the failure of the FBI's work here.
4. Gary Noenser, lead negotiator of the FBI who worked here (he's in the flannel at 22:43 in your video) has said that the biggest day in all of this was March 21, when the FBI got 7 adults to leave the compound. Most of the previous exits were children, and I believe two elderly women. On the same day, HRT decided to drive tanks over several cars parked outside the compound on the theory that the Davidians could use them as cover to shoot at FBI agents. It's unclear if they developed a rationale for why the Davidians would do that on or after March 21 but hadn't between February 28 and then. That was when things broke down, and they never recovered after that.
Further quick note: The commander of HRT at Waco was FBI agent Richard Rogers, who was in charge of HRT at a previous incident referred to as Ruby Ridge, where he gave an illegal "shoot on sight" order that led to the death of the suspect's wife. I recommend doing a video on that incident as well, as both Ruby Ridge and Waco were boons to the militia movement and listed as motives for the bombing of Oklahoma City by Timothy McVeigh.
To be fair, the name Waco stayed in the ether in part because of Bush 43's ranch was there.
To answer your question about the children who were released, I don’t remember hearing about any of them for decades now
7:18 Mutual Combat laws only apply to fist fights where no serious injuries occurred. They're for when an argument with your room mate escalates into a shoving match or if two meatheads get into an altercation at the bar and go out into the parking lot to settle the matter, not for duels at high noon or gang battles. Both parties can face criminal charges if 'mutual combat' results in a serious injury or death, and the mutual combat law in Texas specifically forbids deadly weapons to be used.
They usually threaten the mom that if they leave the children has to stay behind because they belong to the cult leader. So the mom has to stay to protect the child.
During this time period prior to Oklahoma city, there was a peak of anti government militia movements in the US. My parents sold property in the Sierra Mts, they lived in the SF Bay Area, to a guy as owner financed. My dad found out he was not paying the property tax. He was a member of the "Bear Flag Republic", people who would not pay taxes because they didn't recognize the government of California , or the US. My dad took him to court and got the property back because he had to pay the taxes. The sheriff didn't want to evict the guy because he was worried about the guns , and the guys friends in the militia. Luckily, the guy eventually moved away for work. Some guy showed up at my Dad's door with a summons to appear at the court of the bear flag republic in Georgetown CA. They guy was an organizer of this movement from SF. Needless to say, My dad ignored it. There really are a lot of crazy anti government people in this country. At the time these people used Waco to fuel the fire.
I mean, I wonder why. Ruby Ridge was before this too. Reno wanted results for all of the tax dollars they pumped into the ATF so she sicked them on (admittedly dumb) people without any hesitation. Both of those situations could have been handled IMMENSELY more tame manners than they were.
Anti-government is alright, it's just how you go about it is the issue.
Unfortunately resisting them like that rarely turns out well. But i do think they act from the right place when they understand that politicians and governments have no right to claim ownership over people who do not want them.
Great video Guys! Ruby ridge and more of this style conspiracy content would be cool
Ruby Ridge was different.
The Branch Davian survivors still exist on that property in trailers, surrounded by the burned ashes and water storage pools.
Really entertaining mini series on Netflix covering this event and other events leading up to it that I think you guys would get a kick out of. At least it used to be on Netflix; hopefully still is.
I was just gonna say the same thing
Waco Rules of Engagement is a great documentary about this
I worked as a 37 Foxtrot in the US Army, Psychological Operations Specialist. I can attest that we did replace the turrets on our vehicles with 8 large speakers, and play our favorite "War Songs", usually heavy metal, as we drove through the cities. We would also wear red contacts, when speaking with locals. That is true, it happened. Our intent was to intimidate the enemy into submission mentally, without firing a shot. I served in the Diyala Province of Iraq in 2007.
Confirm or deny the ATF fired the first shots?
@@Spaghatee Can't. But Fort Hood, where we operated out of stateside, is only about an hour south of Waco. Those tanks are called BFV (Bradley Fighting Vehicles). As it pertains to who shot first, most likely the ATF, the only reason it's not fact is the ATF covering their tracks through plausible deniability.
The mutual combat law is a real thing. It differs from state to state but basically any level of force that both sides consent to is essentially legal
I know for sure that the CIA has used songs by a metal band called 'Cattle Decapitation' to soften prisoners up and help to make sure they talk. Anybody who has heard cattle Decapitation would understand why it worked so well.
The ATF had the chance to captured the women and children when they were in town for provisions it was a stupid raid!
I went to school with one of the lads who died, he was from Manchester, England (actually Old Trafford) and i believe either 4 or 5 of his family members died (The Henry Family)
I was trainng in Ju Jitsu in the UK when 2 brothers joined the club in Manchester UK. They were in their late 50's and they told us there surname was the same as my brother and i. Their surname was Henry and informed us they were worried about another brother and his family were at WACO. Lawbreaker was correct and the family died in the fire I believe..
@@christopherhenry2496 Yep they did, poor dad basically lost his entire family
I call it "deconstruction" therapy. When you deconstruct, you start to heal. Im 43 now.
Dave the cult you are talking about where everyone looked alike was called Heaven's Gate based out of San Diego.
Reports after the tragedy were that, among many other government failures, Koresh regularly jogged outside the compound and could have easily been picked up without a full scale siege. Also that women and children had been sent to an underground bunker (a buried bus or something) and could have been spared.
He wouldn't let them leave!!!!!! They were hostages!!!!
@@justbecause9645 One guy was caught trying to get back INTO the compound.
@@justbecause9645 and? That changes the fact they could have arrested him with a valid warrant while he was out jogging how exactly?
I had a teacher who played mens volleyball at the University of Minnesota, and he said they had a game at Baylor University (which is in Waco) while this was going on. He said that after that game they were in a plane that happened to be flying over the compound, and his buddy sitting next to him was joking about dropping a match on it from the plane to burn it. Well when they landed at their destination they saw on all the TVs the compound had been set on fire
And now Waco is known for Chip and Joanna on tv. Lol!
Y’all should watch the tv show they made about this it came out a year or two ago, it was pretty entertaining. I think it’s just 10 episodes
I think what OB Dave is thinking about regarding the tank/flamethrower video is from Waco but it was a battering ram on a armored vehicle to bust the upper windows to throw in said flammable gas. The compound went up shortly after that
That mutual combat thing was in Chicago between gangs, the law from what I understand is for fist fights
Timothy McVeigh bombed the Murrah federal building which housed parts of the FBI, ATF and others.
The building was selected to be bombed based solely on the involvement of the FBI and ATF at the compound.
He saw it as a war between the US government and the people. He acted in retaliation.
I personally feel that what he did was important, even as tragic as it was.
If only as a reminder of what one American is capable of doing if our government does cross the line.
When the government fears the people you have democracy.
When the people fear the government you have tyranny.
Yeah, those 19 children that died were little FBI and ATF agents. McVeigh is in hell for murdering human beings.
@@lornawestlake9280 I'm not saying Timothy was a hero by any stretch of the imagination.
He didn't know the building had a daycare center for the employees children.
He said in an interview that had he known, he would have chosen a different location.
If such a place as hell exists, I'm sure he is there.
I clearly remember how dark that day was! I was a senior in high school and we were shown live tv in school that day so we knew what was going on
Waco and Ruby Ridge is what radicalized me against the US Government.
I was Seventh Day Adventist for a few years as a child. We never wore any special clothes. Can’t eat pork or shrimp and Sabbath starts Friday evening to Saturday evening.
Glad the gangs back together. Great reaction!
I grew up 2 hours north of Waco and I remember the teacher putting on the news and we watched the compound burn. Insanity.
They could have picked up David at any time while in town but the incompetence of the ATF was insane, instead they came after him while surrounded by innocent children!
After the Ruby Ridge debacle the new Administration needed to "do it right," which they quickly proceeded to screw up. This is a guv'mint operation after all. They could have just grabbed David by each elbow when he was in town eating pizza and escorted him to a car.
NO!
77 people died.
Netflix or Hulu did a movie or TV series on this and it was eye opening! All of those people died because the FBI/ATF wanted to put on a show and then blamed the cult for the tragedy. They had ample opptortunity to arrest David when he was out and about but chose this outcome! Also, the cult members tried to protect the kids by putting them bunkers/cellars and when people did try to walk out of the building, they killed them which caused the remaining members to stay put. This doc left out alot...
no this was no ones fault but the pedo cult leader. The FBI tried, and could they have done better? Probably. But look at Jonestown, they all called themselves for their cult leader. They got their kids taken away, then given back where they were killed, by their parents and fellow followers. Some where killed by bullets from the cops, but looking at cause of death, it was from each other.
They’re a cult. Sorry if I don’t feel sorry for the dangerous cult members.
@@DynamiteProd The ATF murdered unarmed women and children and posed with their bodies
@@DynamiteProd Yeah lmao they’re just as bad if not worse than the FBI/ATF by causing this in the first place.
The could have saved the children at any time by releasing them! They cowards used them as shields.
I was station at Ft Hood TX. ATF/FBI came to my Battalion and was given Bradley's Fighting Vehicle. M88 (Recovery Vehicle) night devices to use to go on or get David out, didn't go as planned, plus they wanted the Bradley's to uploaded with ammo, Army said wasn't going to happen. It ended badly, to think they could have arrested him months earky..
Yes, they used a flame thrower tank, how ever it was injecting tear gas
Crazy how a lot of these Cults start from Religious groups .. that’s how they get you .. “ Blind Faith “ I find it hard to believe in blind faith to a person and not to God personally… I found it hard to have Blind Faith wit God in the first place …
Lol. Patriotism is cultish behavior. Most human behavior is cultish in nature where groups are concerned. It may feel good to blame religion but the reality is that cults come in a all flavors both secular and religious. The military, law enforcement, corporate structure and government 8n general all exhibit cult like behaviors.
There's a lot of cults that try to mimic Christian theology because they know the actual power of it. The real stuff is always powerful, and counterfeits always delude the gullible into thinking it's profound as well. Mormonism is the same thing. If you know the history and origin, it's a looney religion at best. It's started the same way this cult did.
@@Sprayber yeah I agree but when you see these extreme cults start wit these religious figures like David Koresh and Jim Jones .. people are so weird and crazy man 🤦🏻♂️ kind of embarrassing how crazy we can be ..
@@A-A-RonDavis2470 I seen somewhere that they found some religious thing that said religion started wit Mushrooms 🍄.. people found mushrooms and started tripping out and the things the imagined when they tripped they considered that God .. and religious people tried to hide it because religion coming from a drug was look at something bad … it makes sense when you say people are crazy/weird when is comes to religion 😂
There are some documentaries where they interviewed some of the people that survived
To answer the question about Mutual Combat: yes that is a thing. I got into a drunk scuffle with a guy that ended with me almost cutting his arm off above the elbow with an 8" chefs knife. When the police arrived they asked each of us if we wanted to press charges on the other and we both declined. The police officer had to put it in the report as mutual combat and neither of us were charged.
However...I believe a DA may pursue charges if he wishes but, I'm not positive about that.
I live right outside of Waco. My High School team played football against Waco. This was nuts.
"Mutual combat" I know exactly where Dave heard this. lol On Rogan, talking about gangs in St. Louis.
And I will say, even though Mike was away auditioning for The Masked Singer, he's way more vocal (Pun intended) and interacting more than any video ever lol
First question is, “why do you need glasses then?”
They made this story into a good tv show if you guys are interested in checking that out
Timothy McVeigh the Oklahoma city bomber was outside the compound protesting it.
Such NA over the top dramatic editing but great information.
The Oklahoma City bombing happened on April 19th, 1995, exactly two years after the Waco Texas siege ended and the compound was burned down on April 19th, 1993.
The mutual combat depends on the State. Each State has their own rules too. I lived in Kentucky for 4 yrs and their mutual combat rule said something along the lines that both agreeing parties had to duel at noon in the town center. It's an old law not practiced today, but still on the books. But modern laws conflict with it.
I was around 14 or so when that happened it really crazy
Yes! I was hoping you'd watch this video.
Westbrook Baptist Church, run by the Phelps family in Topeka, Kansas.
Dave is right about the SDA, they were featured in a Geography Now video about the worst and weirdest places in the U.S. The Branch Dividian is a sub sect of that church.
Do you have a link to that video? As a Adventist, I’m interested in what is weird and potentially “worst” about it.
Ruby ridge needs a look also. Great work guys!
The girls at 4:42 are the Manson family. Not branch Dravidians.
Mutual combat is only allowed in certain states. For example, in Texas, if both parties agree & go out back, don’t endanger others, don’t interrupt traffic, etc, it’s completely legal. It only covers hand to hand combat, though, use of weapons is still illegal unless you’re the one pulling one to defend yourself from the one the other guy pulled first. There are other states that allow mutual combat as well, but I’m not sure of the actual details of what’s covered.
You guys should check out the “Ruby Ridge” incident also. That was a ranch vs the FBI back In the 90’s I believe. Btw the mutual combat you’re talking g about happened in Chicago between 2 rival gangs.
^
I was in college, a sophomore, when this happened. We referred to Waco as "Wacko" Texas. A sad, sad situation.
My ex father in law was a part of the "congregation" for a while. He left before the bad stuff happened. He said when he realized they were running guns, thats when he got out. I met his daughter when i was stationed at Hood. Shouldve seen the red flags from 10 miles away! 😂😂😂😂😂
South Park did an episode about the Waco incident where the ATF turn up and gun some of the parents drunk at Mr Mackeys house party
Our law enforcement agencies could have grabbed David Koresh on over 50 occasions when he frequently went out town to buy supplies and groceries. They had a warrant for his detainment (for statutory r-e), they were watching him for weeks before this occurred, and they saw him out about in town on many occasions. They also had an opportunity to talk to David Koresh when they called his firearm dealer for information- David just so happened to be there and when he went to get on the phone, the agents hung up.
All of this tells me they wanted this stand off. This massacre. It was an example for the public. None of what I have said here excuses or permits David’s crimes. There is no doubt that David Koresh broke the law and he had a debt to pay for these crimes. But what went down was avoidable and a tragedy. They murdered a lot of innocent people there including 19-22 children (depending on the source). They ran them over with tanks. They started the fire with their tear gas canisters. They were machine gunning people down who were trying to escape. This is all shown in another documentary .. with FLIR footage and a Congressional investigation which is very important.
It's true that such things mark a place. Enumclaw, WA, just south of where I live will forever be associated with Mr. Hands.
In Vietnam the USA used helicopters with loudspeakers to make the VC think the spirits of their dead were damned to hell or something. Was very scary especially in the darkness in the jungle.
I'm 99.9% with you on the laws of man bit leading to nutters most of the time but there is one quote I remember from a documentary called Sunshine Superman about Carl Boenish, the man who invented Base jumping (skydiving/parachuting from fixed objects), once said (in regards to the national parks trying to arrest him for jumping Yosemite and the police for jumping buildings vs what the universal laws about what a man can and can't do say) "The laws of man are temporary at best." It's the one time I've heard it said and felt like, yeah, this guy is right and I think I wanna take that advice in that context very seriously, still gives me chills enough that I typed this whole thing out! Lol
Great show, fellas 🍻
Laws of man is a catch phrase to refer to that God is always above man.
All psychos are named David, can't wait to meet you Daz.
The group that pickets the soldiers, and others, funerals are the Westboro Baptist Church. It was mostly just a large family group and I think since the demented father passed away many years ago they are not very active anymore. But they are still out there and they do still picket.
It wasn't actually in Waco, it was about 15 miles outside if the city, Waco just happened to be the closest city for the media.
i’ve been to where this compound was…. very eery
Just think if the British SAS Counter Terrorism Unit had been called in to end this,
I know they wouldn't of been there as they are of course British but at the end of the day I would always want the SAS to save me then any American unit.