@@Misiek2525 In movie they showed the pov of guts and how fast guts moved when he sensed someone was opening the door. You should probably check tha scene out.
14:54 You're right. If you rewatch the dream he has in the sewer you'll notice Zodd's face transforms into his. Guts is thinking of himself as a monster.
7:15 That was Guts' face. A symbol of guilt. That said, in the manga there's more to Guts's childhood, unfortunately it's been censored here. Without the extra context this scene is a little confusing.
He didn't see the kid he just saw a shadow.. that's why he ran towards the shadow to kill.. He didn't notice it was a kid untill he smashed him in wall.. he thought h was a guard.. Griiiiiiffffiiiittttttthhhhhhh was happy coz that Zulius and His Kid Adonis was next in line to be king if something happens to king.. He hunted two birds with one arrow..
Griffith is very lucky to have loyal Guts by his side, if Guts knew it was a kid, and he did it, it shows how much Griffith's order important for Guts, if Guts saw the shadow only, not the kid, then it shows his great reflexes and determination to eliminate thread before investigation, either way a perfect soldier for Griffith :)
They make it more obvious that guts stabbing Adonis was an accident in both the manga and the movie but in the 1997 anime they make it look like he meant to full on kill a kid which is something a lot of fan complain about
It was a split second decision with adrenaline. Guts saw someone open the door, and he made a decision as quickly as possible. Then he was in shock when he realized it was Adonis. The vision with Zodd was just a nightmare Guts was having. In the dream, Zodd killed Gambino. But we know in real life, that was Guts. Then Zodd killed Guts too. Then, we see that Zodd had Guts' face. So the meaning of this is that Guts was viewing himself like a monster. And you already know Griffith's dream. He told Guts in the 4th episode. Griffith wants his own kingdom. You said that Griffith is not to blame for this. But all of this is happening only to further Griffith's dream. So it absolutely is Griffith's fault. Guts is his soldier. The leader takes responsibility. But in this specific case, even Julius is at fault. He was trying to assassinate Griffith. Julius caused all of this as well.
That scene where Griffith gives the speech is where everything starts to go wrong for the Hawks but it won't play out yet . And I literally mean everything
another thing i will note is @4:36. look at guts face. this indicates that there was a distinct difference in effect that killing a man in the comfort of his own home has on guts compared to the legions of men he has mindlessly slaughtered in battle. So in my perspective, the show wouldnt create that shot of guts expression of panic/discomfort without trying to convey that his state of mind is foreign to his typical chad "i must kill every enemy on the battle field". hes slightly out of his element here. and im not talking in terms of execution and difficulty of being sneaky, but out of his element in terms of killing a man who cannot properly defend himself...killing a man outside of a fare duel or battle. Thought id bring that up cuz people focus on the child dying and some might overlook this subtle reaction from guts after killing julius.
he didnt saw the kid because of the shadows and since there was no mask/cover on his face he had to kill whomsoever was coming in front of him as the guards were on alert, i myself would have done the same tbh. Guts has been living instinctively. He saw himself in adonis. Thats why he felt the guilt and wanted to confront Griffith, but griffith's friendship speech shook him to the core. Guts was considering griffith as his friend all along. You guys have to be more observational than joking around, then you might catch up all small nuisances of the characters.
alot of people are saying that guts didnt actually know it was a child which i agree with. but i think an alternative to it could be that even if he did "see" the child, that he was in an emotional/mental state that was foreign to him. an assassination was something new and different.. his emotional state was probably thrown off balance from the usual and when seeing a witness went into a state of mild panic and killed the child. as you can see he shows shock at what he did once he saw the child's face which indicates that he kinda snapped back to his senses. with that said there is a darkness to guts for sure. this is why i like the characters in berserk. the main characters aren't morally pure people like a naruto or something. they have flaws and trauma.
Also, in the dream, He sees Zodd killing Gambino and then his own adult face takes the place of Zodd's. It's meant to represent that he's seeing himself become the monster that he hates.
Thanks for the reaction, guys! Charlotte and Griffith's dialog is a red flag in my opinion. At least, if I were Guts, I'd think very seriously and several times about what I mean to Griffith, because after all, he's a strategist, and he's also quite calculating, and that will show up in the next episodes more than once. Thanks again for watching together, and I'll see you in the next episode ✋
I took it the inverse way. Guts took what Griffith said to heart, but I don't think Griffith was speaking truthfully. He IS a strategist, and his strategy hinged on courting Charlotte as his ticket into royalty and, eventually, the throne. Griffith very obviously cares a lot for Guts. He's unnecessarily put himself at risk several times for Guts' sake, like when they encountered Zodd. If he saw Guts as just a tool, even his most valuable tool, Guts wouldn't have been worth Griffith potentially dying for, which he very well could have. He trusted Guts with missions and information that he felt no other person could do/handle. As we'll see in the future, Griffith can't handle separation from him either. Griffith is a complex character and (at least at this point in the story) not completely heartless and calculating. It's more of a tragic misunderstanding, especially because they never actually hashed this out. If Guts had just asked Griffith what he'd meant straight-up, they probably could've settled it fairly easily.
@@Bondrewd_The_Based That's a very interesting point of view. BTW, yes, you're right - Guts and Griffith didn't even discuss anything, forgot that a bit. After your comment, the scene with their last "duel" looks even more serious to me, especially after Griffith's words, "If I can't have my control on you, then..... I don't care!", which reminds me of a character's line from Without a Dowry by Alexander Ostrovsky: "So don't let anyone get you!".
@Dmitry_troubleguy exactly, and I think Griffith's reaction was because from his point of view, Guts had essentially betrayed him from nowhere. Guts began to think about leaving the Hawks after hearing Griffith here, and especially during the Bonfire of Dreams segment. He didn't actually tell anyone that, though, except for Casca (who also didn't say anything to anyone about it). He'd been arguing with himself over it for a while and made peace with his decision internally. From Griffith's point of view, his best friend, his most trusted comrade who'd been with him through thick and thin, who he'd risked his life to save, just up and tried to leave without saying a word. He didn't even want to say goodbye. Griffith's rash reaction would make sense in that case. Of course, that adds to the tragedy because it plays directly into Guts' misunderstanding. He sees Griffith's refusal to let him leave as confirmation that Griffith only values him as a useful tool rather than as a friend. He thinks Griffith is trying to exert authority over him instead of approaching him as a person. Of course, Guts harbors no ill-will, he wants to grow as a person so he can stand beside Griffith as a perceived equal. But he doesn't tell Griffith that. He stands there like a quiet log, so Griffith assumes the worst.
@@Bondrewd_The_Based "If Griffith didn't go sleep with the princess." We could do this all day. This is all Griffith's fault. Implying otherwise would be a disservice to Guts
Griffith purposely sends guts to kill Julius because he knew he would fuck up, and most likely end up killing Adonis the kid that would most likely marry the princess and become next heir to the throne... I hate Griffith but that was a genius move... Griffith is one of the best villains' ever written. You hate him with a passion.
To me the scene of Guts killing Adonis serves to communicate to the audience that no one is "clean" in this world; Even the people who strives to be good must engage in cruel acts to survive.
Just for anyone who may watch this in the future in the manga it’s more clear that guts don’t see Adonis was the one behind the door and would not have killed him if he did know. This is basically one of the worst nights of guts life and that’s saying something. And when he goes to tell Griffith about the terrible thing he had done on Griffith orders he overhears Griffith basically say he doesn’t really care for guts. Also Griffith was totally going to have Adonis killed at some point. Probably not that exact moment but Adonis is next in line to the throne after Julius dies so Adonis was definitely on Griffith hit list to reach power Edit: also yes guts 100% saw a monster in himself and that is why he sees himself as zodd
When I watched this episode for the first time, I literally broke down. It's stupid, but I've come to like the character of Adonis. Seeing him die was too much for me and I had to put this anime aside for a while.
It was very unexpected turn of events, even in the beginning we thought that something could go wrong, but the way how it did... quite shocking, and made us doubt Guts as a human being for the first time lol
In the manga guts didnt see him and just acted on his instincts.
Wondering if Anime authors made it look different intentionally, or if it is production error
@@DenverSenpai if you watch movies after finishing the show they did this is scene much better
@@Avinashkumar-rg7cu But this scene in the manga looks the same. Unless I read a different manga?
@@Misiek2525 In movie they showed the pov of guts and how fast guts moved when he sensed someone was opening the door. You should probably check tha scene out.
Guts only knew an intruder saw the murder. He didn't even realize who it was until after the fact.
14:54 You're right. If you rewatch the dream he has in the sewer you'll notice Zodd's face transforms into his. Guts is thinking of himself as a monster.
Guts always was kind of a monster, just now seems like he started to think about it more often than before :)
7:15 That was Guts' face. A symbol of guilt. That said, in the manga there's more to Guts's childhood, unfortunately it's been censored here. Without the extra context this scene is a little confusing.
I think we got the main point anyway :) what exactly they censored though?
Donovan ... @@DenverSenpai
@@hibarikyoya6349 nah.. bro stop there 😔🥲
@@Animeedits54 yeah...
He didn't see the kid he just saw a shadow.. that's why he ran towards the shadow to kill.. He didn't notice it was a kid untill he smashed him in wall.. he thought h was a guard..
Griiiiiiffffiiiittttttthhhhhhh was happy coz that Zulius and His Kid Adonis was next in line to be king if something happens to king..
He hunted two birds with one arrow..
In this anime he obviously saw the kid. I kind of like the change from the manga, he did what he had to do. There was no other choice.
Griffith is very lucky to have loyal Guts by his side, if Guts knew it was a kid, and he did it, it shows how much Griffith's order important for Guts, if Guts saw the shadow only, not the kid, then it shows his great reflexes and determination to eliminate thread before investigation, either way a perfect soldier for Griffith :)
@@yotornadoyo it wasnt a change just poorly represented
He didn't see the kid*, not saw.
@@xotristan thankyou teacher 😑
He didn’t see it , if you notice he was shocked when he saw what he did .
They make it more obvious that guts stabbing Adonis was an accident in both the manga and the movie but in the 1997 anime they make it look like he meant to full on kill a kid which is something a lot of fan complain about
Interesting, good to know!
It was a split second decision with adrenaline. Guts saw someone open the door, and he made a decision as quickly as possible. Then he was in shock when he realized it was Adonis.
The vision with Zodd was just a nightmare Guts was having. In the dream, Zodd killed Gambino. But we know in real life, that was Guts. Then Zodd killed Guts too. Then, we see that Zodd had Guts' face. So the meaning of this is that Guts was viewing himself like a monster.
And you already know Griffith's dream. He told Guts in the 4th episode. Griffith wants his own kingdom.
You said that Griffith is not to blame for this. But all of this is happening only to further Griffith's dream. So it absolutely is Griffith's fault. Guts is his soldier. The leader takes responsibility. But in this specific case, even Julius is at fault. He was trying to assassinate Griffith. Julius caused all of this as well.
Knowing Griffith, that would be nice to see the details about what kind of kingdom he wants to have and what is his next step after achieving it :)
That scene where Griffith gives the speech is where everything starts to go wrong for the Hawks but it won't play out yet . And I literally mean everything
another thing i will note is @4:36. look at guts face. this indicates that there was a distinct difference in effect that killing a man in the comfort of his own home has on guts compared to the legions of men he has mindlessly slaughtered in battle. So in my perspective, the show wouldnt create that shot of guts expression of panic/discomfort without trying to convey that his state of mind is foreign to his typical chad "i must kill every enemy on the battle field". hes slightly out of his element here. and im not talking in terms of execution and difficulty of being sneaky, but out of his element in terms of killing a man who cannot properly defend himself...killing a man outside of a fare duel or battle. Thought id bring that up cuz people focus on the child dying and some might overlook this subtle reaction from guts after killing julius.
Its pretty clear in the golden age movies and the manga that Guts didnt intend to kill a child
he didnt saw the kid because of the shadows and since there was no mask/cover on his face he had to kill whomsoever was coming in front of him as the guards were on alert, i myself would have done the same tbh. Guts has been living instinctively. He saw himself in adonis. Thats why he felt the guilt and wanted to confront Griffith, but griffith's friendship speech shook him to the core. Guts was considering griffith as his friend all along. You guys have to be more observational than joking around, then you might catch up all small nuisances of the characters.
alot of people are saying that guts didnt actually know it was a child which i agree with. but i think an alternative to it could be that even if he did "see" the child, that he was in an emotional/mental state that was foreign to him. an assassination was something new and different.. his emotional state was probably thrown off balance from the usual and when seeing a witness went into a state of mild panic and killed the child. as you can see he shows shock at what he did once he saw the child's face which indicates that he kinda snapped back to his senses. with that said there is a darkness to guts for sure. this is why i like the characters in berserk. the main characters aren't morally pure people like a naruto or something. they have flaws and trauma.
Yeah, some comments mentioned that anime showed this scene very different from manga, which brought this criticism to anime :(
Also, in the dream, He sees Zodd killing Gambino and then his own adult face takes the place of Zodd's. It's meant to represent that he's seeing himself become the monster that he hates.
Thanks for the reaction, guys! Charlotte and Griffith's dialog is a red flag in my opinion. At least, if I were Guts, I'd think very seriously and several times about what I mean to Griffith, because after all, he's a strategist, and he's also quite calculating, and that will show up in the next episodes more than once. Thanks again for watching together, and I'll see you in the next episode ✋
I took it the inverse way. Guts took what Griffith said to heart, but I don't think Griffith was speaking truthfully. He IS a strategist, and his strategy hinged on courting Charlotte as his ticket into royalty and, eventually, the throne.
Griffith very obviously cares a lot for Guts. He's unnecessarily put himself at risk several times for Guts' sake, like when they encountered Zodd. If he saw Guts as just a tool, even his most valuable tool, Guts wouldn't have been worth Griffith potentially dying for, which he very well could have.
He trusted Guts with missions and information that he felt no other person could do/handle. As we'll see in the future, Griffith can't handle separation from him either.
Griffith is a complex character and (at least at this point in the story) not completely heartless and calculating.
It's more of a tragic misunderstanding, especially because they never actually hashed this out. If Guts had just asked Griffith what he'd meant straight-up, they probably could've settled it fairly easily.
@@Bondrewd_The_Based That's a very interesting point of view. BTW, yes, you're right - Guts and Griffith didn't even discuss anything, forgot that a bit.
After your comment, the scene with their last "duel" looks even more serious to me, especially after Griffith's words, "If I can't have my control on you, then..... I don't care!", which reminds me of a character's line from Without a Dowry by Alexander Ostrovsky: "So don't let anyone get you!".
@Dmitry_troubleguy exactly, and I think Griffith's reaction was because from his point of view, Guts had essentially betrayed him from nowhere.
Guts began to think about leaving the Hawks after hearing Griffith here, and especially during the Bonfire of Dreams segment. He didn't actually tell anyone that, though, except for Casca (who also didn't say anything to anyone about it). He'd been arguing with himself over it for a while and made peace with his decision internally.
From Griffith's point of view, his best friend, his most trusted comrade who'd been with him through thick and thin, who he'd risked his life to save, just up and tried to leave without saying a word. He didn't even want to say goodbye. Griffith's rash reaction would make sense in that case.
Of course, that adds to the tragedy because it plays directly into Guts' misunderstanding. He sees Griffith's refusal to let him leave as confirmation that Griffith only values him as a useful tool rather than as a friend. He thinks Griffith is trying to exert authority over him instead of approaching him as a person.
Of course, Guts harbors no ill-will, he wants to grow as a person so he can stand beside Griffith as a perceived equal. But he doesn't tell Griffith that. He stands there like a quiet log, so Griffith assumes the worst.
@@Bondrewd_The_Based "If Griffith didn't go sleep with the princess." We could do this all day. This is all Griffith's fault. Implying otherwise would be a disservice to Guts
@@bethanyreynolds7270 I didn't say it was anyone's specific fault. Causality is a real function of Berserk, Griffith was always fated to become Femto
Sabina! You were *really* excited when Guts killed that kid! ;)
Griffith purposely sends guts to kill Julius because he knew he would fuck up, and most likely end up killing Adonis the kid that would most likely marry the princess and become next heir to the throne... I hate Griffith but that was a genius move... Griffith is one of the best villains' ever written. You hate him with a passion.
The idea of using Guts as assassin was strange from the start, your explanation makes perfect sense on why Griffith asked Guts to do that
@@DenverSenpai this is wrong. griffith sent guts because he trusts him. griffith lets guts see all the sides of him.
Was looking forward to seeing your thoughts on this one. Sad moment :(
To me the scene of Guts killing Adonis serves to communicate to the audience that no one is "clean" in this world; Even the people who strives to be good must engage in cruel acts to survive.
Just for anyone who may watch this in the future in the manga it’s more clear that guts don’t see Adonis was the one behind the door and would not have killed him if he did know. This is basically one of the worst nights of guts life and that’s saying something. And when he goes to tell Griffith about the terrible thing he had done on Griffith orders he overhears Griffith basically say he doesn’t really care for guts. Also Griffith was totally going to have Adonis killed at some point. Probably not that exact moment but Adonis is next in line to the throne after Julius dies so Adonis was definitely on Griffith hit list to reach power
Edit: also yes guts 100% saw a monster in himself and that is why he sees himself as zodd
When I watched this episode for the first time, I literally broke down. It's stupid, but I've come to like the character of Adonis. Seeing him die was too much for me and I had to put this anime aside for a while.
It was very unexpected turn of events, even in the beginning we thought that something could go wrong, but the way how it did... quite shocking, and made us doubt Guts as a human being for the first time lol
Master piece
How did you guys not even pick up on Guts clearly regretting what he did the moment after it happened?
We did :)
"Guts' morals" xD
I don't think you really paid any attention to what was going on ^^
im waiting for ep25 reaction till then have fun and assume as much as you can🤣🤣🤣
It started to become disturbing
❤
Интересный акцент)
Dub is glorious. Sad you guys didn’t watch it in the best version. I purposely seek out Dub, or else I don’t watch sadly.
Well, fair enough, thanks for checking out though :)
Sub is superior
shallow-thinking
Sorry :(
Average Griffith fan
Guts dont see en the movies too you are a amateur atm in this histori man
What