The problem with Lances isn't Lances themselves, it's the fact that Knockout counts as an ability and creates a Lance. I mean Lances weren't a problem on Behemoth, but once Prismatic launched then everybody was crating lances all of a sudden. If anything I'd say nerf Knockout.
They already did a Nerf to abilities like CB and Sol Invictus where when abilities are charged they count as powered melees so they removed orb generation on them. I feel like they should give knockout the same treatment and completely disconnect it from being a powered melees. Having knockout is already like having a powered melee, why the hell would it also give you a stronger and less skillfull version of penumbral blast on top of that??
hunter spam and diamond lance is insane. i main titan and the amount of free rounds bcuz of the lance is honestly bs. i hate when abiltys carry regardless of what class. ive felt the pain. yes i know im abusing it but its the meta what you gonna do. this map is fun its the cringe ppl that run the pulses.
yeah Prismatic is the reason for the season in pvp. we knew that we were getting unlimited fun in pve at the cost of fun in pvp the second prismatic was announced.
"The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results." The games been running over 10 years, its never gonna be "fixed". They manage to mess up something every patch. I already gave up after The Final Shape but still enjoy the vids so good luck homie.
@@pecador_torthat's not true, there were points in time, notably right before Witch Queen release and before Light Subclasses rework when PvP meta felt really really good, like almost perfect.
@@andreymavian3400 I'm talking about weapons, but guess what, there's still hand cannon shotgun meta there's S t i l l a hand cannon shotgun meta it's been forever? and you're telling me we went full circle? then nothing has changed, no matter what little things they change, they obviously don't care if we just ended up in the same pit as last time
I played solo and the que times are what was the most annoying with multiple mongoose errors. The delay between matches honestly just takes me outta my focus and most matches were feeling like it was my warm-up for the day. More time sitting in que than actually playing does not feel good at all.
Same. Out of 20 or so matches, average 8-10 minutes in queue. Multiple mongoose errors throughout the weekend. Sad state when you cant find a match at 4 pm on a Saturday on the East coast
I liked it and agree. Once I heard about it i switched to Warlock for the weekend and the q times got better, but still not very good. This map is bad.
Removing ability spam is not an option anymore at this point... There is so much options out there that can be used if the current meta gets nerfed. Some examples are Osmiomancy gloves, Weavewalker, Ahamkara arms, Speaker sight and the list goes on and on :( I do miss the gunplay that existed back in y2/y3. But I did have the best pvp experience with my Strand Hunter back in lightfall
Crying about ability spam at this point is such an NPC take. They’ve tried varying levels of anti ability balancing on and off for years now. There’s no pleasing these types. The few that meant it, are already playing other shooters.
6:26 feels like they walked everything back in anticipation for the final shape which put us back at square 1. here hoping there is ability tuning and checkpoint 2.0?
My main issue with any changes to matchmaking is low population server queue times are horrendous. I’m from oce and didn’t even think of queuing as hunter because you were guaranteed gonna get mongoosed. Low population servers suffer the most with any kind of matchmaking gimmicks because we have no one playing to begin with. The same 10 sweaty/ximmers, toxic teabaggers flaming in chat and people backing out in loading screen
This is the most accurate take on trials this weekend ive heard yet, spittin straight facts bro. Personally felt this was one of the worst weekends for trials mainly due to how this map plays with the current meta
I agree with pretty much all of this except the high ground (not the perk) comments; I felt like I could flank and punish campers who tried to just headglitch the whole game and when I went up there I was kept on my toes. My experience (console) wasn’t passive at all
I think the SBMM component was screwing with the queue times, I had a lot of, a LOT of games where I barely scrapped a win and then I get 2 teammates that are either new players or low skill against already flawless players. Also if they just Decoppled diamond lanze from knockout bae melee so it’s not as free, would be a step in the right direction, cause DL uptime is consistent with KO, any other combo or base stasis requires an ability used with the right execution or multi kills with guns
From what I understand there is no SBMM but who knows what goes on behind the scenes. Problem with removing diamond lance from knockout kills is that it would really hurt pris titan in pve which isn't an ideal fix. Some potential solutions are make it so u can't 1 shot melee a guardian when they're frozen, lower how long you can hold a diamond lance in pvp, etc.
IDK man, ppl were just complaining about Hunters which got almost all of our stuff nerfed. From smokes, to swarm grenades, even threaded specter. Titans were OP throughout all of that hunters just got the brunt of the complaining because that's what you saw more of.
Yep just because hunter was op doesn't mean the other 2 classes didn't have stuff that obviously needed tuning. Frustrating how they only put band-aids over stuff when people complain rather than being proactive with things like diamond lance and warlock arc melee.
With all fairness, the main difference is that Hunter kit requires no setup and has no risk to it to be oppressive. One smoke is all it took to cover a doorway for 20 seconds which is insane. Titan is incredibly oppressive, but they need a melee kill to get the ball rolling. And Warlock, while having access to melee on demand is good, the melee has a lot of risk involved when you use it, it's not a one shot ability and it only works well on players who enjoy standing in one spot as a team or don't know how to properly back away from a fight.
The balancing felt a little better for me, but I got mongoose a lot. It took at least 2 to 3 minutes per queue time. The map sucked. When a high ground bygones got top every time or a titan got a melee kill it was gg.
I don't usually go flawless since the skill pool is so tight now, but the moment I switched off drengrs lash and onto diamond lance I started taking rounds from teams that I had no business doing. You can take a subpar engagement where you would normally double punch and trade but instead you get your health back to full from knockout plus a free follow up with the lance and suddenly the match is a 3 v 1 in seconds. Sure its fun, but its busted. Prismatic spam builds will be the death of competitive pvp imo.
I don’t know why UA-camrs like this aren’t talking about the SBMM. It could barely function before. Now with terrible player numbers, it really can’t. Let’s just blame the map instead lol.
I got mongoose’d multiple times, twice I had it in back to back ques so I waited about 23 minutes for a game. I’m not sure if it’s more prominent on console but it was a rough 3 hour card just due to que times and one loss!
BUNGIE kinda screwed themselves, they won’t be as willing to nerf the ease of creation for diamond lances because they wanted it to be more accessible in PVE. The problem with that is that they work in conjunction with the best titan aspect with little effort in PvP
The meta u described could not be more perfect like the mapping fusions and three 40 pulses with high ground or sum was out of control and I’m a 500 + flawless player whose hit ascendant every season and this is the first time I did not do carries this week because of tye meta
The only thing i disagree with in this is about the titans being too good. I ONLY play titan. Diamond lance is annoying, but every class can freeze people easily. Titans are worse off in pvp and pve then we have ever been. I used to push a button and kill 3 or 4 people easily. They have dialed titans back alot, and or exotics.
Sunday and Monday (Australia) I couldn't find a match at all during what should be peak hours it takes so long to search with class base or trials is officially dead
Also I agree with the diamond lance thing cause I use pergien grieves and I get 2 free kills with one melee but what also needs addressing is the arc melee on prime warlock that is broken with the 3 charges you can get 5 kills in one melee have stupid lunge and massive aoe honestly prism imo ruin pvp in alot of ways
Well, bad news... remember how long it took to nerf the other ultra oppressive ability hunter spam? (Without talking that the super is still broken) (smoke, clone, dodge, crazy nade) Scary times 😅
Not a good idea, cut the crap and face facts. There aren’t enough people playing the damn game. Do you not understand how we can’t afford this type of MM?
Person who has abused instant reload double shot grenade launchers for literal years complaining about ability titan/hunter ability spam is absolutely comical. Talk about throwing stones while living in a glass home
@@bannedmann4469he uses rain of fire icarus dash to reload his gl and fire it before icarus animation even finishes. Its a way for people who are incapable of using a primary to get still get instakills post-checkmate special ammo changes
youre getting diamond lanced more with less titans because titans are the only good players and having only one on your team means there are less allied titans countering the enemy titan. its simple really.
The problem with Lances isn't Lances themselves, it's the fact that Knockout counts as an ability and creates a Lance. I mean Lances weren't a problem on Behemoth, but once Prismatic launched then everybody was crating lances all of a sudden.
If anything I'd say nerf Knockout.
Yeah this is the issue. Also if you wait out the cooldown before picking up the lance, you can chain the lance-melee into another lance 🤨
@@bigsuze7263 That is true you shouldn't be able to chain lances like that
@@bigsuze7263bruh
They already did a Nerf to abilities like CB and Sol Invictus where when abilities are charged they count as powered melees so they removed orb generation on them. I feel like they should give knockout the same treatment and completely disconnect it from being a powered melees.
Having knockout is already like having a powered melee, why the hell would it also give you a stronger and less skillfull version of penumbral blast on top of that??
hunter spam and diamond lance is insane. i main titan and the amount of free rounds bcuz of the lance is honestly bs. i hate when abiltys carry regardless of what class. ive felt the pain. yes i know im abusing it but its the meta what you gonna do. this map is fun its the cringe ppl that run the pulses.
It's on the developer to fix things. As long as something is in the game and you aren't cheating it's fair game.
@@Epicdefender758 yeah i know i sometimes use it to doesnt mean its not cringe lol
And not just any pulses, bygones with high ground is nasty on this map. Whoever takes control of the balcony wins the game
yeah Prismatic is the reason for the season in pvp. we knew that we were getting unlimited fun in pve at the cost of fun in pvp the second prismatic was announced.
"The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results." The games been running over 10 years, its never gonna be "fixed". They manage to mess up something every patch. I already gave up after The Final Shape but still enjoy the vids so good luck homie.
honestly, you're right
10 years and the meta hasn't changed, now there's just a worse amount of ability spam
@@pecador_torLol You think the meta hasn’t changed in ten years?
Problem is that Bungie has been reworking and adding a lot of new abilities to the game last couple of years which drove balance of the Cliff.
@@pecador_torthat's not true, there were points in time, notably right before Witch Queen release and before Light Subclasses rework when PvP meta felt really really good, like almost perfect.
@@andreymavian3400 I'm talking about weapons, but guess what, there's still hand cannon shotgun meta
there's
S t i l l
a hand cannon
shotgun
meta
it's been forever? and you're telling me we went full circle? then nothing has changed, no matter what little things they change, they obviously don't care if we just ended up in the same pit as last time
I played solo and the que times are what was the most annoying with multiple mongoose errors. The delay between matches honestly just takes me outta my focus and most matches were feeling like it was my warm-up for the day. More time sitting in que than actually playing does not feel good at all.
Exactly, felt the same way
Same. Out of 20 or so matches, average 8-10 minutes in queue. Multiple mongoose errors throughout the weekend. Sad state when you cant find a match at 4 pm on a Saturday on the East coast
Avg 15 min matchmaking wait on solo que between matches was awesome. Then 3s we played the same team 5 times in 1 card.
I liked it and agree. Once I heard about it i switched to Warlock for the weekend and the q times got better, but still not very good. This map is bad.
best solo q times were titan for me
Removing ability spam is not an option anymore at this point...
There is so much options out there that can be used if the current meta gets nerfed.
Some examples are Osmiomancy gloves, Weavewalker, Ahamkara arms, Speaker sight and the list goes on and on :( I do miss the gunplay that existed back in y2/y3. But I did have the best pvp experience with my Strand Hunter back in lightfall
Yeah I can't really see any meaningful progress in the near future.
Crying about ability spam at this point is such an NPC take. They’ve tried varying levels of anti ability balancing on and off for years now. There’s no pleasing these types. The few that meant it, are already playing other shooters.
6:26 feels like they walked everything back in anticipation for the final shape which put us back at square 1. here hoping there is ability tuning and checkpoint 2.0?
I just want abilities to complement the gunplay not the other way around
duude your reflexes are godly daang (0:50)
My main issue with any changes to matchmaking is low population server queue times are horrendous. I’m from oce and didn’t even think of queuing as hunter because you were guaranteed gonna get mongoosed. Low population servers suffer the most with any kind of matchmaking gimmicks because we have no one playing to begin with. The same 10 sweaty/ximmers, toxic teabaggers flaming in chat and people backing out in loading screen
Yeah in less popular regions the game really is in a dire state... Can definitely see how this made it so much worse
This is the most accurate take on trials this weekend ive heard yet, spittin straight facts bro. Personally felt this was one of the worst weekends for trials mainly due to how this map plays with the current meta
ya I had to use pulse shotty to win.
Blaming it on the map is cope. Kinda funny actually.
@@bannedmann4469 i mean not really the map plays like shit lol
as a warlock, i was taught which class and which subclass was best (prismatic, and titans and hunters, using prismatic)
I agree with pretty much all of this except the high ground (not the perk) comments; I felt like I could flank and punish campers who tried to just headglitch the whole game and when I went up there I was kept on my toes. My experience (console) wasn’t passive at all
Fair enough,
The point and click bubble still blinds a lot of people. It’s the reason for a lot of imbalance in this game. Tyranny of the minority.
ya, I forgot about the classes too. I didn't like the map at first, but it's not that bad.
For the match times, were the match making parameters based on a flawed card or not still in play this weekend?
I think those parameters were still in play.
matchmaking issues was due to the class restrictions mostly
and the low player base for pvp, let alone trials. fought streamers all weekend lol
didn't match a single streamer lol
@@s__Cause you’re not good enough, you’re in a SBMM bubble my child.
Yup, it’s really that simple. But somehow he thinks it’s the maps fault.
@@bannedmann4469 ? I'm a pro.
I think the SBMM component was screwing with the queue times, I had a lot of, a LOT of games where I barely scrapped a win and then I get 2 teammates that are either new players or low skill against already flawless players.
Also if they just Decoppled diamond lanze from knockout bae melee so it’s not as free, would be a step in the right direction, cause DL uptime is consistent with KO, any other combo or base stasis requires an ability used with the right execution or multi kills with guns
From what I understand there is no SBMM but who knows what goes on behind the scenes. Problem with removing diamond lance from knockout kills is that it would really hurt pris titan in pve which isn't an ideal fix. Some potential solutions are make it so u can't 1 shot melee a guardian when they're frozen, lower how long you can hold a diamond lance in pvp, etc.
No sbmm in trials and then the lobby balancing was all over the place this weekend. Bungie just has no idea what they're doing.
@@db1872If there’s lobby balancing, there’s SBMM. At this point it’s just semantics over what flavor of SBMM.
@@bannedmann4469 from a statistical standpoint, there is a huge difference but yes from a gamer perspective, it's pretty similar
IDK man, ppl were just complaining about Hunters which got almost all of our stuff nerfed. From smokes, to swarm grenades, even threaded specter. Titans were OP throughout all of that hunters just got the brunt of the complaining because that's what you saw more of.
Yep just because hunter was op doesn't mean the other 2 classes didn't have stuff that obviously needed tuning. Frustrating how they only put band-aids over stuff when people complain rather than being proactive with things like diamond lance and warlock arc melee.
@@Epicdefender758 exactly
With all fairness, the main difference is that Hunter kit requires no setup and has no risk to it to be oppressive. One smoke is all it took to cover a doorway for 20 seconds which is insane.
Titan is incredibly oppressive, but they need a melee kill to get the ball rolling.
And Warlock, while having access to melee on demand is good, the melee has a lot of risk involved when you use it, it's not a one shot ability and it only works well on players who enjoy standing in one spot as a team or don't know how to properly back away from a fight.
The balancing felt a little better for me, but I got mongoose a lot. It took at least 2 to 3 minutes per queue time. The map sucked. When a high ground bygones got top every time or a titan got a melee kill it was gg.
I don't usually go flawless since the skill pool is so tight now, but the moment I switched off drengrs lash and onto diamond lance I started taking rounds from teams that I had no business doing. You can take a subpar engagement where you would normally double punch and trade but instead you get your health back to full from knockout plus a free follow up with the lance and suddenly the match is a 3 v 1 in seconds. Sure its fun, but its busted. Prismatic spam builds will be the death of competitive pvp imo.
I don’t know why UA-camrs like this aren’t talking about the SBMM. It could barely function before. Now with terrible player numbers, it really can’t. Let’s just blame the map instead lol.
I got mongoose’d multiple times, twice I had it in back to back ques so I waited about 23 minutes for a game. I’m not sure if it’s more prominent on console but it was a rough 3 hour card just due to que times and one loss!
BUNGIE kinda screwed themselves, they won’t be as willing to nerf the ease of creation for diamond lances because they wanted it to be more accessible in PVE. The problem with that is that they work in conjunction with the best titan aspect with little effort in PvP
The meta u described could not be more perfect like the mapping fusions and three 40 pulses with high ground or sum was out of control and I’m a 500 + flawless player whose hit ascendant every season and this is the first time I did not do carries this week because of tye meta
The only thing i disagree with in this is about the titans being too good. I ONLY play titan. Diamond lance is annoying, but every class can freeze people easily. Titans are worse off in pvp and pve then we have ever been. I used to push a button and kill 3 or 4 people easily. They have dialed titans back alot, and or exotics.
I'd rather bungie balances the classes better and more frequently then impose this. I feel like a pvp overhaul is needed at this point.
Sunday and Monday (Australia) I couldn't find a match at all during what should be peak hours it takes so long to search with class base or trials is officially dead
Also I agree with the diamond lance thing cause I use pergien grieves and I get 2 free kills with one melee but what also needs addressing is the arc melee on prime warlock that is broken with the 3 charges you can get 5 kills in one melee have stupid lunge and massive aoe honestly prism imo ruin pvp in alot of ways
hope you like 15 minute wait times.
Titan knockout diamond lance is too overpowered, nerf hunters into the ground again and leave the warlocks with the scraps
Well, bad news... remember how long it took to nerf the other ultra oppressive ability hunter spam? (Without talking that the super is still broken) (smoke, clone, dodge, crazy nade) Scary times 😅
Although hunter is still metah, it’s not a win con, titans getting 2 possibly 3 free kills because of lance is stupid
"its sl braindead easy" literally
Ran off meta. Giftec conviction arc hunter with tempest strike and ascension. No one ever knows what hit em!
wasnt the worst thing but atp its just oh a pulse guess ill kms
ya I wanna use my hawkmoon more.
2:33 lmfao
Not a good idea, cut the crap and face facts. There aren’t enough people playing the damn game. Do you not understand how we can’t afford this type of MM?
Prismatic is ruining pvp imo
Person who has abused instant reload double shot grenade launchers for literal years complaining about ability titan/hunter ability spam is absolutely comical. Talk about throwing stones while living in a glass home
found the hunter main
@@afri2nmore hours on warlock than the other 2 classes sorry big dawg
Omg, thank you! I thought I was the only one. Lmao second one fires without an animation and before the camera transitions ffs.
@@bannedmann4469he uses rain of fire icarus dash to reload his gl and fire it before icarus animation even finishes. Its a way for people who are incapable of using a primary to get still get instakills post-checkmate special ammo changes
My #1 fan
youre getting diamond lanced more with less titans because titans are the only good players and having only one on your team means there are less allied titans countering the enemy titan. its simple really.
💀
Its crazy how fast the destinations map and everything in general loads on PC vs console 🥲