One thing that I really love about AC3 is how heavy the plane is. Really feels like you're an actual ace pilot flying a 30-ton aircraft. And yeah, really hate the AC2-style stall that's plaguing modern AC. I can't even count how many times I died because I flew too slow while being too close to the ground. Oh you stalled? NOSE DIVE! and bam, mission failed.
@@michelestefanini5466 The max takeoff weight (as in when they're fully loaded) for many fighter craft today, let alone in 2040 reaches and exceeds 30 tonnes. Of course, when they're empty, not so much.
@@tessemi I don't think it's laziness. I think there's plenty of talented ambitious people at project aces, but bamco is out to make money, and what makes money? By making Ace Combat games with baby flight physics. No, the only thing project aces is missing is the actual flight nerds of old, that wanted to make a compelling flying system. And if that isn't the case, no one with enough volition to stand up to it. The market has spoken with Ace Combat 7's unfortunate success, which means any further titles will be just as simple if not even simpler. There's a guy above saying how he doesn't like how the stall physics are so simple that it causes him to crash sometimes. To bamco, this means: No more stalling! Yay! Now everyone can have even more fun because it's even easier! Less work for us! Before you know it, the easy control scheme will be the only way to play, and you won't even be able to fly the plane like an actual plane anymore. Mark my words.
I think they just need to update ac6’s a little to make it fresh and then they can use that. Personally ac6 had the best flight characteristics and gameplay in the series imo
Also another detail in AC3 is that the plane's ailerons stop working on a stall, for example if you are rolling and stall the plane will keep rolling without control until you regain lift (recover from the stall) This game is a masterpiece and needs a remake for next gen I beg you PA!! Plz
Once you play Ace Combat 3, you notice Ace Combat 04 has slightly lighter weight to the planes, then in Ace Combat 5 and Zero that is nearly non-existent. The difference from AC04 to AC5 is the biggest and anyone instantly notices it.
Probably AC3 was the most serious AC franchise that the AC devs started to working on. Aside from futuristic aircrafts and great graphics, they implemented what other combat flightsim/flightsim games at that time rarely put into it, semi-realistic stall.
The reason my favorite games are Ace Combat 04 and 6 (haven’t played 3 yet but I like what I see here) is because the jets feel like actual jets in some regard. AC7 feels too… cartoony. But in 04, the crafts had weight, meaning you had to actually think about your maneuvers instead of just turning blindly until the weak AI decides to Syrian lead turn you (does this way too soon in AC7). Had to get it out, thanks for listening guys. Nothing has surpassed the gameplay of 04: Shattered Skies and AC6 yet for me.
I remember playing last mission in AC7 when you fly straight up in the Space Elevator. By following logic from AC3 I was thinking there is no way I have enough speed to fly out from there. That was the first time I fully realized, you can't stall your jet like this anymore. What was disappointing as well, you can't fly up to the stratosphere any more like in AC3. Remember how excited I was flying as high as I could, watching the sky go darker before gravity finally pulled me down. For a PS1 game, physics were incredible back then.
Interesting, this requires further discussion and research but it would be intriguing to watch a video fully dedicated at comparing and expanding upon these two games' physics.
Indeed it does, as different planes handle differently in tight turns or dives - for example, unlike AC7 you can't recover from a fast drive by pulling up right before the ground because you will just hit it with you belly then. AC3 really requires you to plan your maneuvers ahead, manage your speed and power all the time (which is the part some casual players didn't liked).
will it litterally just bop your nose back down in ac7? im glad i never transitioned from my ps2 ran AC3 without a memory card my whole life, finished it once or twice ~10 years ago, still the best game
I’m so glad you highlighted this. The gradual stall as seen in AC3 is a bit more realistic and plays better. You don’t have a split second to fire a missile up someone’s arse, and stalling at low-ish altitude isn’t the death sentence 7 seems to think it is.
If you ask me, Joint Assault and Assault Horizon would have fared so much better if they took Ace Combat 3's flight model. It would have been far better in the sense "it takes place in our world", leaving the arcadey AC2 physics for Strangereal titles. Of course, AH would have needed to axe DFM, but that applies in every case.
Not only AC3 has realistic physics, it seem to have emulated gravity, because if you do the most basic Aerobatics, like a Loop, on your way down, you realize that the jet's weight and momentum pulls you further down to the ground.
also in AC3 you can land at proper speed and AoA. Try it with the F/A-18 on carrier approach. And if you turn with full stick deflection, in some (semi-fictional) planes you still lose speed at constant altitude even with full throttle. Just like in real jets. Risk is higher when climbing. So unlike most ACs where you brake to turn, AC3 requires you to think like a sim pilot. There is a certain optimal corner speed, once reached, turn and burn. About the "heavyness", it's actually less about the flight model - it's how the analog input is programmed in the game. AC3 has very large analog stick deadzone, S-like sensitivity curve and X-Y threshold. The game won't register your "roll" input up to a certain extent when you tilt the stick down. In other words, If you tilt the stick slightly diagonally, it may only register a "pitch" input, and ignore your "roll" input. (PS: many shooters has this because kids often can't accurately push the stick exactly up/down) One way to reduce this effect is to set deadzone to low and sensitivity to high in the ingame options. Many people miss this.
If I had to guess, the reason the stall mechanic is so disabling in AC7 is because in multiplayer the developer is trying to punish players who don't properly manage speed when using High-G turn without relying on a cool down like what PW does with its aoa limiter. The stall mechanic would give a player who can successfully maneuver well at lower speeds a clear advantage in those conditions while not having a cool down makes it a matter of skill in physics control as opposed to skill in resource managment.
Yeah I fully agree, I think in terms of the identity of the series, Ace 3 was still trying to be realistic in some aspects, and now, well... It has gone in a different direction and made the flight model much less of a simulation (if you can say it ever was one to begin with) and instead much more of a game mechanic, so people feel it's more "fair" even though it's just made it easier for people who don't know anything to fly.
Actually in PW not only there's a cooldown, but also the plane lose MUCH energy when doing post-stall maneuver. Also, if you choose the AoA limiter, you can't have chaff, as opposite of AC7
People act like every game in the AC series had the ridiculous flight model from AC7. In reality AC04, 5 and Zero are actually a lot more realistic than you might think they are. Yes reloading missiles, yes giant rail guns and space lasers… in terms of how the planes fly, it’s a lot closer to real life than AC7. High-G turns were probably the worst addition to the AC series behind dogfight mode in Assault Horizon. It completely ruined the relationship between speed and maneuverability that the earlier games had. In the PS2 games you needed to watch your speed, try to maneuver when you’re too slow and you’ll stall, but speed up and your turning circle increases dramatically, if you wanna turn faster you have to sacrifice speed which leaves you vulnerable but if you wanna run at full throttle you’ll have a tougher time keeping up in turns and in fact you’ll find yourself overshooting a LOT. With high-g though, it doesn’t matter anymore… you just hit the afterburner and the brake at the same time and somehow magically get the best of both worlds? That’s not how it works…
AC3 has the more realistic and better feeling physics from all the games imho, but it's not perfect. Realistic physics with the removal of flat spins and forgiving energy retention would make an Ace Combat game play incredibly, so when I say realistic mean sort of like of YSFlight Physics and not DCS. Air force delta strike for the PS2 did this, at it's core the gameplay is a clone of AC2 but proper physics. While that game is really flawed I think the physics (minus the yaw) worked in it's favor. Also an honorable mention to Lethal skies 2/Sidewinder V, another AC clone but with realistic physics and realistic payload. It felt great but after a few missions it becomes too difficult to the point it's not fun. The only big issue AC3 has is the lack of thrust when near the ground. It makes the planes feel really heavy and if you're flying towards the ground and pull up you'll be moving down at a high angle of attack which will make you smash into the floor as you can't really generate speed to recover. I've played trough the entirety of the series minus the PSP ones with a HOTAS (AC6 Ace Edge) and proper analog support, and while AC4 also felt great, AC3 was by far the best in terms of physics. Maybe the AC3 remake or AC8 should have 3 control options, Novice, Expert, and then a Simcade one for AOA and stall enthusiasts like myself.
AC3 physics is fine, it's just how the analog stick curve is programmed in the game. The deadzone and X-Y threshold is pretty big, so pitching+rolling inputs often get ignored.
@@mimimimeow When I was emulating AC3 I was using my HOTAS translated into PS1 Analog Joystick {not Dualshock, SCPH-1110) inputs via UCR and I could pitch and roll with the same precision I'd get on a simulator, so I doubt that's actually the problem. The problem is thrust + angle of attack based, but as I said it's a minor issue. Mind that by doing this I also had fine control over the throttle so there was no delay if I was in burner or not too. Already being at max thrust and not accelerating enough as my pointing upwards plane crashes into the ground sounds due to no thrust and maintaining it's high angle of attack like a physics issue, and not a joystick one. And I say its a minor problem because It's realistic but not for the kind of aircraft the game features.
@@sanikku7359 interesting, may be it just so happens that your stick input is skipping the deadzone value range? because the game itself has multiple deadzone settings in the options, and the default is already pretty large.
As a die hard AC3 fan, I'd say it has *realistic* physics. AC7 is a fun game on its own terms, but it's difficult to say what is "better" solely on how close to reality each one is. I defend the opinion that AC is, more than anything, an "arcade fighter", where we are playing a plane with 50x more missiles than any real jet would ever have, and with absolutely no punishment for doing G turns that would explode the cranium of any regular human being, so there is a limit on how "realistic" physics get until it affects gameplay, especially AC7 is an online multiplayer, as some pointed out. I think the realism in AC3's physics is part of the immersion of the game, and as people said, something that makes the plane feel super heavy and actually have traction, but then we need to put into the equation that this same engine will affect how missions are designed, and in the case of AC7, how the online gameplay it will be. Yes, it is part game design, part artistic choice, and I agree AC7, on hindsight, has a weird physics engine compared to AC3, but gameplay wise, it doesn't change a whole lot (IMO), especially when one of the most memorable missions is to basically be the one-man squadron and take down a flying technological fortress, and thinking about my plane nose-diving like a piece of meat was the least of my worries.
i'm a big gamer, i also design and code... i never played ace but play video and soundtrack of the game. I think this type of content are so intresting
Personally I didn't like the way AC3 planes felt and the stalling took too much control away from the player. AC7 however, makes your plane fall too fast when you start to stall. I'd like to see a middle ground achieved.
@real pedroppp Another thing to note - In AC3, the planes do not have autoflaps, but you could directly control the flap system by using pitch control. If you push the stick at a low speed (yet way ahead of the stalling point, say, 500), the flaps go negative (upward rotation), thereby decreasing lift and inducing a premature stall. On immediately pulling back the flight-stick, the flaps go positive (downward rotation) -> lift comes back alive -> the aircraft pulls away. Although this 'flap' system seems too dumb to understand the importance of when to provide lift, I'm still amazed that it got perfectly worked out for a game that had to be run only by a PS1 console. :)
I have actually flown in a cessna and have practiced stalls, the AC7 physics are more true to real life than AC3 imo. The nose does drop pretty fast, maybe not as violent as shown in ac7 but it’s not a floaty roller coaster like in ac3. Second part of the video is a bit puzzling though lmao.
Sukhoi fighters, especially this one, tend to float in the air at lower speeds more than the Cessna due to the inherent instability in their designs (along with the onboard flight control system inducing artificial flight characteristics). I agree that the AC7 physics feels more 'real' during normal operations (wing-loading, inertia, etc. envelope control systems come into play). However, while stalling, all aircraft in AC7 give up quite quickly (and AC3 aircraft would go nearly ballistic, but there's minimal flight control regardless, unlike in AC7). Hope you get to practice stalls in a Sukhoi or in any delta-winged aircraft one day! :)
AC3 ftw. Sad that PW has better physics than AC7. Stall in 7 just snaps you towards ground, and no control of it during snap. Had to install Skies Rebalanced mod to make it berable, otherwise i'd prob rage quit at mission 10-ish.
I always knew that, the only game that has better physics than 3 is Assault Horizon Legacy. You see, while stall on both AC3 and AHL are the same, AHL uses a realistic atmospheric flight, meaning you could only get a little bit over Mach 1 near ground, but if you climb, could go over mach 3 with some planes. AC7 do have this in a small form, from 0 to 3k altitude, it's all the same, above that, planes do get faster and faster the higher they go. So in the end AHL > AC3 > all other games of the series.
Man Finally more people are Noticing and Making Videos About the way these Games Actually Play ! I started with Ace04 which is both fortunate and Unfortunate as it could be nostalgia But after Viewing and Comparing All Other Ace games, 04 Really Does Things Unique From ALL Others In a Good Way ! And personally Ace6 is still the latest Best Title Next to Joint Assault and Infinity.
Yep. Flight in these games has been going downhill ever since 3. 4 still has a good bit of this inertia left, but 5 eliminates it entirely and has remained largely unchanged until 7. 6 is an outlier and is a little bit heavier and dynamic (planes lose a lot of control authority at high speeds) but less than 4. It's a real shame. One of the many reasons why 7 is the worse entry in the franchise. Any of you ever play Aerofighters Assault? That came out right around Ace Combat 3 and that too had very compelling flight characteristics. There was no such thing as stalling in Aerofighters, but you actually pulled AoA to turn. You lost speed in turns. You gained speed in dives. Just like AC3. They felt GREAT to fly. That was part of the appeal of these games. That SHOULD be part of the appeal of these games. Accessible flight that still looks and feels authentic. That's the sign of a good game. When anyone from a noob to a flight buff can pick it up and have an "aha" moment as they do something as simple as turn.
@@Oclur it may Be THE WORSE In terms of Epic Cocktease And False Advertisement In top of Claiming it’s A Solid “Comeback” only Selling Best due to Overhype And Diehard Desperate fans !? Which ruins it for the rest !
@@mrandrossguy9871 Except their only argument is "older games have a more realistic physics thus they're better" when this series objective is not realism to begin with. You don't see people complaining that Need for Speed doesn't have Assetto Corsa's physics, so why would you complain about Ace Combat not being as realistic as a simulator? If you want realism there's DCS Lastly, considering you're under every Ace Combat video shitting on AC7, I'd say the only butthurt person here is you
Oh so I'm not the only one who thinks this. I remember ac3 feeling way different that I needed to train myself. Now I might as well fire up my old copy instead of just thinking about it
AC 5 and zero has similar system where when you stall it is not just simply 180 to the ground except if you are flying SU 47 of AC 5 where somehow it still has the system of AC 2
@@mathmocha1331 literally 😂 but that how planes work too, you can point the nose where you want in a modern plane but it takes time for the inertia to shift direction, and so basically you "drift" the plane
Ace combat 7 was a fking joke. I remember years ago installing it, not liking it and uninstalling after 20 minutes. A few weeks ago I thought "maybe I was too hasty - I'll give it another go" Holy heck its bad, and the controls are awful. I had much more enjoyment playing Ace Combat 1 on the PS1
It's still very fun game. It could have been more of course, but it's not a big problem. Maybe next will have more features and maybe it's more approachable for new players?
Fans in general are Bad as they’re So Scrabbled with Opinions and Feelings it’s a Cockamamie out come and most times The end result is a one sided product from the Makers who only Listen to the Loudest Imbeciles
Obviously it IS a big problem for Ace7 with having poor or just Goofy (like a Very Poor F2P Mobile App Airshow physics) or Zero Amount of Physics in a FLYING Game
My thought exactly... Project Aces needs to remake AC3 and then continue the franchise from there... AC# is the best in the series... AC0 is close second...
AC3 - made for PS1 with 2 MB of RAM AC7 - made for modern devices with gigabytes of RAM Apollo 11 spaceship to the fucking MOON - literally just 64 words of memory it seems the more room there is, the worse software developers get
I got curious and boot up Ace Combat Joint Assault The game has Ace Combat 3 physics... I think? Your plane takes quite a bit to recover from stalling. In low-power climb, your plane will stall in ~10 seconds Im not an Ace Combat expert, so dont quote me on that. Probably best test it out yourself
The ace combat series has never claimed to be a flight sim. That said yes the physics in the game especially the most recent iteration are completely broken. Even if you actually had a plane a fighter no less that could do Mach 5 Turning Circle evening at mach three will be larger than a couple of US states
From what I got playing AC3, it maintains the inertia of the plane a lot more, you can argue that it is more realistic (I think there was an attempt, but it actually made it less realistic), but it makes the plane a lot harder to control and not in a fun way. In AC7 and most of the other games, the aircraft is more responsive and to me more fun to fly because of that. Neither of the games are anywhere close to being realistic and really shouldn't be, being arcady is a part of Ace Combat's identity and it is one of the things that makes the franchise so great. Although I'm curious to see what an Ace Combat with more realistic physics would be like.
Well, to be fair to ace combat 7, I think they were trying to go for a more Hollywood kind of flight physics rather then recreate real life. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to pull all the maneuvers you do in AC7
Though ace6 seemed to do that better also hawx with the crazy maneuvers, all I can give to 7 is the modern visuals and even that isn’t as mind blowing as Ace6
Bro BRO Ace Combat 5, haven’t played in a while But In Free flight I think or The Actually Mission Of “First Flight” LoL The Physics ARE LITERALLY ZERO as in theres a Glitch in that particular Map that Gives the Plane ZERO Weight and No AOA, like the Vector Indicator Doesn’t Even Budge when Pulling Except when Upside down WTF LMAO
You know AC3 has the best physics when you can go to space and the space physics behave semi-realistically (even tho you go into space for like... 2 missions), the people who developed AC3 are a bunch of nerds.
the actual term is proportional navigation. And yeah in AC3 you dont go behind and spam 2 missile like the other games. You have more hit probability when the target is crossing you perpendicularly (left>right or vice versa), and fire the missile with a nose lead (front of target).
@@mimimimeow i know the actual term, but this isn't r/hoggit. Anyway yes, missiles in AC3 had proportional navigation, both your missiles and the enemy missiles, which makes the combat feel much more interesting. Can't really fly in circles as much, cause the missiles will still hit you, and you'll lose a ton of speed.
Genuinely i don't really enjoy AC3 physics, i mean if i wanna be realistic about it i rather play Strike Fighters or DCS, but don't get me wrong i like the story just not the physics
It's not the physics, just AC3 has very large analog stick deadzone, S-like sensitivity curve and X-Y threshold. The game won't register your "roll" input up to a certain extent when you tilt the stick down. In other words, If you tilt the stick slightly diagonally, it may only register a "pitch" input, and ignore your "roll" input. (PS: many shooters has this) One way to reduce this effect is to set deadzone to low and sensitivity to high in the ingame options. Many people miss this.
Physics and Ace Combat shouldn’t be in the same sentence. It’s an arcade not a simulator. If you want serious physics and realism play DCS. If you just want to F around mindlessly then play Ace Combat.
One thing that I really love about AC3 is how heavy the plane is. Really feels like you're an actual ace pilot flying a 30-ton aircraft.
And yeah, really hate the AC2-style stall that's plaguing modern AC. I can't even count how many times I died because I flew too slow while being too close to the ground. Oh you stalled? NOSE DIVE! and bam, mission failed.
Every plane in AC7 thinks it's an AC5 S-32. (If you know, you know)
@@WonkyTonkBotty I remember those times. AC5 was great.
@@WonkyTonkBotty all planes in this nonsence new versions have so good maneuverability lol but in AC3 , each plane had unique mobility.
30 ton??? what the fuck is that? a tank? dude actual planes weigh 12 ton maximum
@@michelestefanini5466 The max takeoff weight (as in when they're fully loaded) for many fighter craft today, let alone in 2040 reaches and exceeds 30 tonnes. Of course, when they're empty, not so much.
There's a parallel universe where this game was launched one year later fully translated as intended and everyone loved it so much it got remade.
PS5 remake could be awesome.
CAUTION: STALL.😂
Project Wingman did flight physics better I think. I hope AC8 gets a re-work of the flight model.
Dont count on it. Bamco is lazy
Yes they are very lazy.
@@tessemi I don't think it's laziness. I think there's plenty of talented ambitious people at project aces, but bamco is out to make money, and what makes money? By making Ace Combat games with baby flight physics. No, the only thing project aces is missing is the actual flight nerds of old, that wanted to make a compelling flying system. And if that isn't the case, no one with enough volition to stand up to it. The market has spoken with Ace Combat 7's unfortunate success, which means any further titles will be just as simple if not even simpler. There's a guy above saying how he doesn't like how the stall physics are so simple that it causes him to crash sometimes. To bamco, this means: No more stalling! Yay! Now everyone can have even more fun because it's even easier! Less work for us! Before you know it, the easy control scheme will be the only way to play, and you won't even be able to fly the plane like an actual plane anymore. Mark my words.
I think they just need to update ac6’s a little to make it fresh and then they can use that. Personally ac6 had the best flight characteristics and gameplay in the series imo
First thing I noticed about Project Wingman was how real the plane felt.
Also another detail in AC3 is that the plane's ailerons stop working on a stall, for example if you are rolling and stall the plane will keep rolling without control until you regain lift (recover from the stall)
This game is a masterpiece and needs a remake for next gen
I beg you PA!! Plz
I don't want a remake. I barely trust remasters.
But I want a game that ties into this one. To tie the series together more firmly.
Did Ace Combat 1995 also forced plane to stop working on a stall?
Not to mention the higher altitude effects your plane's performance and minimum speed in a very authentic manner.
@@FullMetal-Technot even ACE COMBAT 6 matched what AC3 did.
Once you play Ace Combat 3, you notice Ace Combat 04 has slightly lighter weight to the planes, then in Ace Combat 5 and Zero that is nearly non-existent. The difference from AC04 to AC5 is the biggest and anyone instantly notices it.
True, I began playing Zero and when I bought AC04 it was like an entirely different series
Yes THUS Started my Frustration with the Franchise Today !
And the So called Oblivious Gullible fans Are RUINING GAMES These days 🤬
And this is why I argue that Ace Combat 4 had THE BEST flight physics of the holy trinity (5 and Zero) plus Ace Combat 6.
@@Shattered_SkiesAC UNSUNG WAR too.
@@ColonelRyderWhitedont forget the masterpiece song "The Liberation of Gracemaria".
Probably AC3 was the most serious AC franchise that the AC devs started to working on. Aside from futuristic aircrafts and great graphics, they implemented what other combat flightsim/flightsim games at that time rarely put into it, semi-realistic stall.
AC3 still loved by many people playing this game despite the US port had fewer stages compared to japanese version.
The reason my favorite games are Ace Combat 04 and 6 (haven’t played 3 yet but I like what I see here) is because the jets feel like actual jets in some regard. AC7 feels too… cartoony. But in 04, the crafts had weight, meaning you had to actually think about your maneuvers instead of just turning blindly until the weak AI decides to Syrian lead turn you (does this way too soon in AC7).
Had to get it out, thanks for listening guys. Nothing has surpassed the gameplay of 04: Shattered Skies and AC6 yet for me.
Great vid btw, was fun to see.
@@Mobius118 Thanks a lot! Point noted!
Yup and in ace combat 4-zero gravity can grab your plane if you don't pull up and Bam crash.
Consider ac3 as the masterpiece of the saga if graphics are not a problem for you
@@pequod6660 it still didn’t have multiplayer though which would feel more complete
I remember playing last mission in AC7 when you fly straight up in the Space Elevator. By following logic from AC3 I was thinking there is no way I have enough speed to fly out from there. That was the first time I fully realized, you can't stall your jet like this anymore. What was disappointing as well, you can't fly up to the stratosphere any more like in AC3. Remember how excited I was flying as high as I could, watching the sky go darker before gravity finally pulled me down. For a PS1 game, physics were incredible back then.
Interesting, this requires further discussion and research but it would be intriguing to watch a video fully dedicated at comparing and expanding upon these two games' physics.
Indeed it does, as different planes handle differently in tight turns or dives - for example, unlike AC7 you can't recover from a fast drive by pulling up right before the ground because you will just hit it with you belly then. AC3 really requires you to plan your maneuvers ahead, manage your speed and power all the time (which is the part some casual players didn't liked).
@@evilbabai7083 And it’s “PA’s” fault for tending to the filthy casuals XD
The physics in ACE COMBAT 7 looked a bit broken there.😂
All PS1 games are like this. They all have some sort of gravity variable that makes climbing harder.
And at the same time, they nailed the physics of outer space in the mission 'Zero Gravity' perfectly...
@@mathmocha1331wish AC7 had those yet, they dont have Zero Gravity feature from PS1 ACE COMBAT games.
will it litterally just bop your nose back down in ac7?
im glad i never transitioned from my ps2
ran AC3 without a memory card my whole life, finished it once or twice ~10 years ago, still the best game
You can feel the trembling sense when stall overheight or no acceleration, especially when pushing crazy altitude in Fate Intertwined
I’m so glad you highlighted this. The gradual stall as seen in AC3 is a bit more realistic and plays better. You don’t have a split second to fire a missile up someone’s arse, and stalling at low-ish altitude isn’t the death sentence 7 seems to think it is.
5 also.
If you ask me, Joint Assault and Assault Horizon would have fared so much better if they took Ace Combat 3's flight model. It would have been far better in the sense "it takes place in our world", leaving the arcadey AC2 physics for Strangereal titles.
Of course, AH would have needed to axe DFM, but that applies in every case.
Your In to something ..
But nah it’s just the Devs and Fans are Dumb 😠
Not only AC3 has realistic physics, it seem to have emulated gravity, because if you do the most basic Aerobatics, like a Loop, on your way down, you realize that the jet's weight and momentum pulls you further down to the ground.
also in AC3 you can land at proper speed and AoA. Try it with the F/A-18 on carrier approach. And if you turn with full stick deflection, in some (semi-fictional) planes you still lose speed at constant altitude even with full throttle. Just like in real jets. Risk is higher when climbing. So unlike most ACs where you brake to turn, AC3 requires you to think like a sim pilot. There is a certain optimal corner speed, once reached, turn and burn.
About the "heavyness", it's actually less about the flight model - it's how the analog input is programmed in the game. AC3 has very large analog stick deadzone, S-like sensitivity curve and X-Y threshold. The game won't register your "roll" input up to a certain extent when you tilt the stick down. In other words, If you tilt the stick slightly diagonally, it may only register a "pitch" input, and ignore your "roll" input. (PS: many shooters has this because kids often can't accurately push the stick exactly up/down)
One way to reduce this effect is to set deadzone to low and sensitivity to high in the ingame options. Many people miss this.
AC6 is a mixture of both styles.
What can I say? Trigger’s different
I chuckled at the zoom in in the speed counter and stuff.
AC3 is sooo good
I miss when different skins could have different flight characteristics. Some in AC6 were super goofy and fun
I just completed AC3 these days. Nice to see this comparison. It seems an old game has aged well.
Yesss. ive always thought that the ac3 physics make the game extremely hard and extremely fun at the same time
Ac7 is fun and all but super easy imo
All the ace combat games are easy. BTW I'm not criticising ace combat games I just think the criticisms of ac 7 are pretty shit
@@analt2379 well 7 is pretty shitty compared to even 6
@@mrandrossguy9871 shitty how exactly?
If I had to guess, the reason the stall mechanic is so disabling in AC7 is because in multiplayer the developer is trying to punish players who don't properly manage speed when using High-G turn without relying on a cool down like what PW does with its aoa limiter. The stall mechanic would give a player who can successfully maneuver well at lower speeds a clear advantage in those conditions while not having a cool down makes it a matter of skill in physics control as opposed to skill in resource managment.
Yeah I fully agree, I think in terms of the identity of the series, Ace 3 was still trying to be realistic in some aspects, and now, well... It has gone in a different direction and made the flight model much less of a simulation (if you can say it ever was one to begin with) and instead much more of a game mechanic, so people feel it's more "fair" even though it's just made it easier for people who don't know anything to fly.
Actually in PW not only there's a cooldown, but also the plane lose MUCH energy when doing post-stall maneuver.
Also, if you choose the AoA limiter, you can't have chaff, as opposite of AC7
People act like every game in the AC series had the ridiculous flight model from AC7.
In reality AC04, 5 and Zero are actually a lot more realistic than you might think they are.
Yes reloading missiles, yes giant rail guns and space lasers… in terms of how the planes fly, it’s a lot closer to real life than AC7.
High-G turns were probably the worst addition to the AC series behind dogfight mode in Assault Horizon.
It completely ruined the relationship between speed and maneuverability that the earlier games had.
In the PS2 games you needed to watch your speed, try to maneuver when you’re too slow and you’ll stall, but speed up and your turning circle increases dramatically, if you wanna turn faster you have to sacrifice speed which leaves you vulnerable but if you wanna run at full throttle you’ll have a tougher time keeping up in turns and in fact you’ll find yourself overshooting a LOT.
With high-g though, it doesn’t matter anymore… you just hit the afterburner and the brake at the same time and somehow magically get the best of both worlds?
That’s not how it works…
Keep in mind However 5 and Zero(which are same Game graphically) Have No Inertial Physics unlike AC3, AC4, and ACX
AC3 has the more realistic and better feeling physics from all the games imho, but it's not perfect. Realistic physics with the removal of flat spins and forgiving energy retention would make an Ace Combat game play incredibly, so when I say realistic mean sort of like of YSFlight Physics and not DCS. Air force delta strike for the PS2 did this, at it's core the gameplay is a clone of AC2 but proper physics. While that game is really flawed I think the physics (minus the yaw) worked in it's favor. Also an honorable mention to Lethal skies 2/Sidewinder V, another AC clone but with realistic physics and realistic payload. It felt great but after a few missions it becomes too difficult to the point it's not fun.
The only big issue AC3 has is the lack of thrust when near the ground. It makes the planes feel really heavy and if you're flying towards the ground and pull up you'll be moving down at a high angle of attack which will make you smash into the floor as you can't really generate speed to recover. I've played trough the entirety of the series minus the PSP ones with a HOTAS (AC6 Ace Edge) and proper analog support, and while AC4 also felt great, AC3 was by far the best in terms of physics. Maybe the AC3 remake or AC8 should have 3 control options, Novice, Expert, and then a Simcade one for AOA and stall enthusiasts like myself.
Ever heard of mr andross guy ? He’s always been talking about that
AC3 physics is fine, it's just how the analog stick curve is programmed in the game. The deadzone and X-Y threshold is pretty big, so pitching+rolling inputs often get ignored.
@@mimimimeow When I was emulating AC3 I was using my HOTAS translated into PS1 Analog Joystick {not Dualshock, SCPH-1110) inputs via UCR and I could pitch and roll with the same precision I'd get on a simulator, so I doubt that's actually the problem. The problem is thrust + angle of attack based, but as I said it's a minor issue. Mind that by doing this I also had fine control over the throttle so there was no delay if I was in burner or not too. Already being at max thrust and not accelerating enough as my pointing upwards plane crashes into the ground sounds due to no thrust and maintaining it's high angle of attack like a physics issue, and not a joystick one. And I say its a minor problem because It's realistic but not for the kind of aircraft the game features.
ACX has pretty decent physics, more similar to AC4. Don't play X2 though, it's physics makes world of warplanes look more realistic.
@@sanikku7359 interesting, may be it just so happens that your stick input is skipping the deadzone value range? because the game itself has multiple deadzone settings in the options, and the default is already pretty large.
As a die hard AC3 fan, I'd say it has *realistic* physics. AC7 is a fun game on its own terms, but it's difficult to say what is "better" solely on how close to reality each one is. I defend the opinion that AC is, more than anything, an "arcade fighter", where we are playing a plane with 50x more missiles than any real jet would ever have, and with absolutely no punishment for doing G turns that would explode the cranium of any regular human being, so there is a limit on how "realistic" physics get until it affects gameplay, especially AC7 is an online multiplayer, as some pointed out.
I think the realism in AC3's physics is part of the immersion of the game, and as people said, something that makes the plane feel super heavy and actually have traction, but then we need to put into the equation that this same engine will affect how missions are designed, and in the case of AC7, how the online gameplay it will be.
Yes, it is part game design, part artistic choice, and I agree AC7, on hindsight, has a weird physics engine compared to AC3, but gameplay wise, it doesn't change a whole lot (IMO), especially when one of the most memorable missions is to basically be the one-man squadron and take down a flying technological fortress, and thinking about my plane nose-diving like a piece of meat was the least of my worries.
Then I guess you think the Ace Combats that DO HAVE better Feeling physics, have poor mission designs that are fUn ?
i'm a big gamer, i also design and code... i never played ace but play video and soundtrack of the game. I think this type of content are so intresting
DCS: Full Simulation Experience.
Ace combat 7: Full Arcade experience.
Ace combat 3: Full Cyberpunk Experience.
Dcs is no where in this video though ?
So why mention it ?!
@@mrandrossguy9871 because it's a flight simulator game.
@@Andrecio64um ok Dcs is a flight sim ok
Personally I didn't like the way AC3 planes felt and the stalling took too much control away from the player.
AC7 however, makes your plane fall too fast when you start to stall.
I'd like to see a middle ground achieved.
Then Project Wingman is your answer. AC3-style stall, but doesn't take forever to recover. Just floor your throttle and you're good to go.
@@DanAtmaja hopefully Project Aces will take notes from them
@real pedroppp Another thing to note - In AC3, the planes do not have autoflaps, but you could directly control the flap system by using pitch control. If you push the stick at a low speed (yet way ahead of the stalling point, say, 500), the flaps go negative (upward rotation), thereby decreasing lift and inducing a premature stall. On immediately pulling back the flight-stick, the flaps go positive (downward rotation) -> lift comes back alive -> the aircraft pulls away. Although this 'flap' system seems too dumb to understand the importance of when to provide lift, I'm still amazed that it got perfectly worked out for a game that had to be run only by a PS1 console. :)
@@mathmocha1331 can you make a video clip of it?
AC04 did it, if you want to stick to the franchise. If only future franchises adopted the physics it had
It's funny how the most futuristic main AC game in the series is also the most “realistic” one.
This comment's made me start to think that AC3 developers were, in fact, from the future lol
And the AC’s that were in REAL WORLD Were 💩
Finally someone who ask the important questions
Ace Combat 3 is it's own beast compared to the rest of the series
I have actually flown in a cessna and have practiced stalls, the AC7 physics are more true to real life than AC3 imo. The nose does drop pretty fast, maybe not as violent as shown in ac7 but it’s not a floaty roller coaster like in ac3.
Second part of the video is a bit puzzling though lmao.
Sukhoi fighters, especially this one, tend to float in the air at lower speeds more than the Cessna due to the inherent instability in their designs (along with the onboard flight control system inducing artificial flight characteristics). I agree that the AC7 physics feels more 'real' during normal operations (wing-loading, inertia, etc. envelope control systems come into play). However, while stalling, all aircraft in AC7 give up quite quickly (and AC3 aircraft would go nearly ballistic, but there's minimal flight control regardless, unlike in AC7).
Hope you get to practice stalls in a Sukhoi or in any delta-winged aircraft one day! :)
I wholly disagree as a pilot of sports planes. AC7 completely disregards the connection between airspeed and lift. The stalls are just baked in.
AC3 despite had wonky controls still plays more superior than AC7.
AC3 ftw. Sad that PW has better physics than AC7. Stall in 7 just snaps you towards ground, and no control of it during snap. Had to install Skies Rebalanced mod to make it berable, otherwise i'd prob rage quit at mission 10-ish.
You think that AC7's stall is weird? Check AC2!
I always knew that, the only game that has better physics than 3 is Assault Horizon Legacy.
You see, while stall on both AC3 and AHL are the same, AHL uses a realistic atmospheric flight, meaning you could only get a little bit over Mach 1 near ground, but if you climb, could go over mach 3 with some planes.
AC7 do have this in a small form, from 0 to 3k altitude, it's all the same, above that, planes do get faster and faster the higher they go.
So in the end AHL > AC3 > all other games of the series.
Man Finally more people are Noticing and Making Videos About the way these Games Actually Play !
I started with Ace04 which is both fortunate and Unfortunate as it could be nostalgia But after Viewing and Comparing All Other Ace games, 04 Really Does Things Unique From ALL Others In a Good Way !
And personally Ace6 is still the latest Best Title Next to Joint Assault and Infinity.
This is why I tried not to fly too slow and fly as fast as the plane can. The problem is the enemies in AC3 are flying too slow sometimes.
Yep. Flight in these games has been going downhill ever since 3. 4 still has a good bit of this inertia left, but 5 eliminates it entirely and has remained largely unchanged until 7. 6 is an outlier and is a little bit heavier and dynamic (planes lose a lot of control authority at high speeds) but less than 4. It's a real shame. One of the many reasons why 7 is the worse entry in the franchise.
Any of you ever play Aerofighters Assault? That came out right around Ace Combat 3 and that too had very compelling flight characteristics. There was no such thing as stalling in Aerofighters, but you actually pulled AoA to turn. You lost speed in turns. You gained speed in dives. Just like AC3. They felt GREAT to fly. That was part of the appeal of these games. That SHOULD be part of the appeal of these games. Accessible flight that still looks and feels authentic. That's the sign of a good game. When anyone from a noob to a flight buff can pick it up and have an "aha" moment as they do something as simple as turn.
"7 is the worst entry in the series"
Now I know you don't know what you're talking about
@@Oclur sad that’s The only thing you got from his Explanation And Got Triggered by
Smfh
@@Oclur it may Be THE WORSE In terms of Epic Cocktease And False Advertisement In top of Claiming it’s A Solid “Comeback” only Selling Best due to Overhype And Diehard Desperate fans !? Which ruins it for the rest !
@@mrandrossguy9871 Except their only argument is "older games have a more realistic physics thus they're better" when this series objective is not realism to begin with. You don't see people complaining that Need for Speed doesn't have Assetto Corsa's physics, so why would you complain about Ace Combat not being as realistic as a simulator? If you want realism there's DCS
Lastly, considering you're under every Ace Combat video shitting on AC7, I'd say the only butthurt person here is you
@@Ocluroh ok, well your kinda invaLid anyway since you said the ‘ol “Want rEalism go PLay dcS” pathetic catch phrase ..
Funny The SU-30M2 is THE ONLY Jet in 7 that has any weight or Momentum in physics !?
Oh so I'm not the only one who thinks this. I remember ac3 feeling way different that I needed to train myself. Now I might as well fire up my old copy instead of just thinking about it
AC 5 and zero has similar system where when you stall it is not just simply 180 to the ground except if you are flying SU 47 of AC 5 where somehow it still has the system of AC 2
Yes AC3 had inertia, you did kinda "drift" the planes turning
Made in Japan! 😎
@@mathmocha1331 literally 😂 but that how planes work too, you can point the nose where you want in a modern plane but it takes time for the inertia to shift direction, and so basically you "drift" the plane
@@RogueBeatsARG because of mass and aerodynamics
@@APerson-ni1gb Yes! i wish AC8 improves on that!
Ace combat 7 was a fking joke. I remember years ago installing it, not liking it and uninstalling after 20 minutes.
A few weeks ago I thought "maybe I was too hasty - I'll give it another go"
Holy heck its bad, and the controls are awful. I had much more enjoyment playing Ace Combat 1 on the PS1
Hah bingo,
Even Ace1 has Multiplayer SPLIT-Screen
Ac3 actually had physics.
mass send this to kono
The joint poibt for both: Pilot aint human
It's still very fun game. It could have been more of course, but it's not a big problem. Maybe next will have more features and maybe it's more approachable for new players?
Fans in general are Bad as they’re So Scrabbled with Opinions and Feelings it’s a Cockamamie out come and most times The end result is a one sided product from the Makers who only Listen to the Loudest Imbeciles
Obviously it IS a big problem for Ace7 with having poor or just Goofy (like a Very Poor F2P Mobile App Airshow physics) or Zero Amount of Physics in a FLYING Game
Seriously though I think The series just needs a Option between Ace3/04’s physics and 7 or 6 etc.
Me trying to play war thunder: WHADDYA MEAN I CANT PULL 14Gs FOR MORE THAN 2 SECONDS?
My thought exactly... Project Aces needs to remake AC3 and then continue the franchise from there... AC# is the best in the series... AC0 is close second...
ACE COMBAT 7: I'M ICED UP!😂
Ace combat 5
Grime >
Project wingman, ac4 and ac6 i see they have the best flight phisics
If only Bandai Namco would give more budgets to AC7
i think it was just simplified for multiplayer
AC3 - made for PS1 with 2 MB of RAM
AC7 - made for modern devices with gigabytes of RAM
Apollo 11 spaceship to the fucking MOON - literally just 64 words of memory
it seems the more room there is, the worse software developers get
Just 64 words of memory?! I think the original Super Mario game required more than that lol, idk ^^
ACE COMBAT 7 is ridiculous, same physics of AC 2 20 years after.
Now compare Ace4 to Ace 5 Or just Ace3 to ace4
Im assuming AC7 simplified it for newcomers to the franchise
For some pathetic reason
I got curious and boot up Ace Combat Joint Assault
The game has Ace Combat 3 physics... I think? Your plane takes quite a bit to recover from stalling. In low-power climb, your plane will stall in ~10 seconds
Im not an Ace Combat expert, so dont quote me on that. Probably best test it out yourself
no matter how good the original game it is, using unreal engine always gonna ruin it
...Honestly, they're both fine.
Well, they literally programmed space physic just for one mission in Ac 3, so of course it's much better
Ace combat 3 is a king.
The ace combat series has never claimed to be a flight sim. That said yes the physics in the game especially the most recent iteration are completely broken. Even if you actually had a plane a fighter no less that could do Mach 5 Turning Circle evening at mach three will be larger than a couple of US states
Best version for me ace combat 3 Japan version 2disk ..now translation English you can download play on PSP or psone
I don’t understand how some people are still playing AC7 after 3 years.
I was over AC7 after 3 days.
🗿
From what I got playing AC3, it maintains the inertia of the plane a lot more, you can argue that it is more realistic (I think there was an attempt, but it actually made it less realistic), but it makes the plane a lot harder to control and not in a fun way. In AC7 and most of the other games, the aircraft is more responsive and to me more fun to fly because of that. Neither of the games are anywhere close to being realistic and really shouldn't be, being arcady is a part of Ace Combat's identity and it is one of the things that makes the franchise so great. Although I'm curious to see what an Ace Combat with more realistic physics would be like.
And neither has enough inertia when pulling hard turns lmao
Bring back the AC3
Ahhhh... AC3... the best. 💓
Well, to be fair to ace combat 7, I think they were trying to go for a more Hollywood kind of flight physics rather then recreate real life. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to pull all the maneuvers you do in AC7
Though ace6 seemed to do that better also hawx with the crazy maneuvers, all I can give to 7 is the modern visuals and even that isn’t as mind blowing as Ace6
Bro BRO
Ace Combat 5, haven’t played in a while But In Free flight I think or The Actually Mission Of “First Flight” LoL
The Physics ARE LITERALLY ZERO as in theres a Glitch in that particular Map that Gives the Plane ZERO Weight and No AOA, like the Vector Indicator Doesn’t Even Budge when Pulling Except when Upside down WTF LMAO
physic are something that really drive me away from ace combat 7
Physics?
AC3 is too realistic when i first played it
You know AC3 has the best physics when you can go to space and the space physics behave semi-realistically (even tho you go into space for like... 2 missions), the people who developed AC3 are a bunch of nerds.
AC3 had the best physics in the series, and it's also the only game in which missiles use predictive tracking
the actual term is proportional navigation. And yeah in AC3 you dont go behind and spam 2 missile like the other games. You have more hit probability when the target is crossing you perpendicularly (left>right or vice versa), and fire the missile with a nose lead (front of target).
@@mimimimeow i know the actual term, but this isn't r/hoggit. Anyway yes, missiles in AC3 had proportional navigation, both your missiles and the enemy missiles, which makes the combat feel much more interesting. Can't really fly in circles as much, cause the missiles will still hit you, and you'll lose a ton of speed.
Genuinely i don't really enjoy AC3 physics, i mean if i wanna be realistic about it i rather play Strike Fighters or DCS, but don't get me wrong i like the story just not the physics
same, i really enjoy the story and the gameplay somewhat but the planes just feel SO heavy
Strike Fighters as in Third Wire? War Thunder’s more realistic than Strike Fighters.
@@t65bx25 Not everyone wants to play an MMO grinding simulator
It's not the physics, just AC3 has very large analog stick deadzone, S-like sensitivity curve and X-Y threshold. The game won't register your "roll" input up to a certain extent when you tilt the stick down. In other words, If you tilt the stick slightly diagonally, it may only register a "pitch" input, and ignore your "roll" input. (PS: many shooters has this)
One way to reduce this effect is to set deadzone to low and sensitivity to high in the ingame options. Many people miss this.
Imagine caring about physics in an arcade shooter
Imagine Not caring for that WITH LICENSED AIRCRAFT
Gtfoh
There’s Arcade then there’s Just Goofy and Mindless Little to No Detail
Ac3 Best.
Glad you like it. Thanks for the support! :)
Ac4 an zero has the best physic imho
Can confirm
Though Zero is just A Tiny bit more reformed from ace5 in physics which is crap
No it doesnt
Physics and Ace Combat shouldn’t be in the same sentence. It’s an arcade not a simulator. If you want serious physics and realism play DCS. If you just want to F around mindlessly then play Ace Combat.
But that’s what they all say
Ever heard of BALANCE or SWEET SPOT ?
Ever since Ace3 the franchise seemed to try and Strive For That !
Not ONE EXTREME SPECTRUM!
Salty Xzibit dude 🙄