@thelasthallow The 6510 in the C64 can address a maximum of 64K, but the RAM expansion has a DMA and can chunk data into and out of that 64K from the 16Mb at a byte per cycle. That's what this is doing, "loading" each frame from expansion RAM.
To those saying "Fake"... "fake" from a "could someone have done this with the hardware for a C64 available to 99.9999% of people in 1985?" Probably not. And that isn't really the point. Yes there are some post "C64-era" additions to make this happen, but, the core equipment running to generate it is still the C64. It is kind of like Ms. Pac Man vs. Pac Man on the Atari 2600... someone COULD have made the original Pac Man look like Ms. Pac Man on 2600, which along with making an actually playable E.T. game, might have staved off the VG crash of 1983. Sloppiness and lack of imagination at a certain timepoint doesn't mean something couldn't have been done at an earlier point in history... the people to make it happen just were not there yet.
Crossbow, you still happen to amaze.. even years after all the prime time of c64 is gone ;) maybe c64 including yourself just got immortal for unending coolness!
It uses a serial connection, it works in a different way to RAM. In a serial connection you ( basically ) just keep asking the drive for the next byte of the file and drop in in the next space. You can ask the drive to page 256 bytes of data at a time.... 254 of those bytes are actual data and the other two point to the next part of the file it is a part of.
@kelli217 Yes I have ... ;-) But RAMLink was not manufactured by Commodore (fan made by CMD). The only original expansion i remember was 256KB that came out around 1987. Cheers ;-)
That's some truly superfly video encoding to get it to look that good within the standard 64 hardware. I didn't think it had the colour resolution to be able to do this. Either you'd have to lose a load of colour, or drop the rez, and that's definitely higher than 160x200...
The resolution is still 320 x 200. It's the color which is tweaked by software (improving the native mode) and fast swapping between images (to the eye it looks like a color blending) which are instantly fed into the video chip by the external REU
No, I am not forgetting that, what I am doing is answering the debate about whether you can write code for the 64 in which the 6502 runs a video CODEC which updates the bitmap buffer at 50Hz by performing a block image transfer itself, which you cannot and if you disagree then by all means produce the code which does it.
So... you take a sequence of IFLI images, use the REU's DMA and MMU to page-flip through them at 30Hz, and you have enough CPU left over for a SIDplayer routine. Somebody let me know when they've figured out how to cram this in with the 7-bit 15kHz PWM sample playback method outlined in C= Hacking 20 and 21. :D
As I far as I understand, the CPU is free of most work because the REU is directly accessing the video RAM. So it's no wonder they can add music and other fx
@@saganandroid4175 Interlaced flexible line interpretattion - its a trick you can use on the c64 to make it display higher resolution images with more detailed color . Its rather technical so id look it up if you want to know more. People still discover clever and impossible .things on this nearly 40yr old computer.
Great C64 rendition of this intro! I'd love to see this done with the intro to Newhart. Mancini would sound great on the SID. Oh, and the original intro to Wings, too!
i can,t believe that this all becomes possible in 4bit 16colors,cuzz today we need 64bit billions od colors to get perfect video. it,s just simply amezing i bet this can also be done on a nes
Nice! :) How much video can you pack with that in a normal C64 (including loader, player, sound etc.) and how long dows it load on a 1541-II ( or with Dreamload for example)?
To return to my point: The 6510 in the 64 cannot re-write a full bitmap screen at 50Hz. It can be page flipped with the VIC but the 6502 is only capable of moving about 2 or 3 k of data through RAM at 50Hz.
..and also the fact you have made two technical errors since we started talking: I'm not the one who said anything about 5fps, I wasn't debating anything about the REU and my program displays an X not a club.
I owe you nothing. You came here, claiming you know exactly how this works, but your C64 knowledge (as good as it might have been) is from the 1980s. Many new techniques and tricks were discovered since then. You also didn't know the first rule: "Don't question Crossbow, he knows his shit".
Yep, that checks out. Hmmm, interesting, well, assuming you are him then you're a legend and your programs have been baffling people with their technical skill for years. SO well done, if you don't mind me saying so! : )
And if you're making comments like this one: "No words about block transfers with the 6510 (which makes no sense on a standard C64, as it has the VIC)". We're going to have to sit here for a very long time before you're up to speed whilst I teach you the basics of programming: Blit functions can be written in software and have existed in hardware since the VAX PDP-10 in 1966. Most scroll code on the '64 uses strings of block transfers in 6510. There you've got your argument now, feel better?
mh... so technically, it will be possible to watch a full movie with a bit of tweak if you install the sd expansion, p.e. It has a surprisingly good quality
Don't listen to YouRolandTube, I can tell you matter of factly he is wrong. The 64 is capable of flipping the 8k bitmaps in memory even faster than 50Hz, it can also scroll them using VIC tricks, but the 1Mhz 6510 cannot redraw an 8k bitmap at 50Hz.
No, because I have no way of verifying you were the author and a lot of people talk a lot of bull with the help of google, wikipedia, etc. It woudln't prove anything. Let's start easy with my firing off something very simple from the top of my head and you telling me what it does. Not what the instructions mean, but what it actually does. Here you are.. SEI LDA #$58 LDX #$04 LOOP STA $0400,X DEX BPL LOOP CLI RTS
It runs on the original 6510. 0.985 MHz. I'm assuming a PAL C64. The NTSC one runs at 1.02 MHz. Not that the little difference in clock frequency would matter a whole lot.
Well I apologise for doubting you Mr Crossbow. My excuse is, well, you know how many fakes appear on UA-cam? And how many people want to come on and show off their new found fact they just read on Wikipedia five minutes before to start arguments about it? And the ones who read a few documents on rendering and suddenly think they're a technical expert and nobody else could know as much as they do? It happens too often.
Saving this on REAL 5.25"-Floppies ... let's see - 170 KB every side - Speed: 40 Bytes/Second - I guess 5 MB Video size Disks: 5,000,000 Bytes / (2 Sidesx170,000 Bytes per Disk) = 15 Disks (double sided!) Time to load Video: 5,000,000 Bytes / 40 Bytes per Second = 125000 Seconds = 34 Hours .......... Take a video tape instead !!
320 x 200 in 2 color per 8x8 cell as native mode. Software tweaked up to 3 colors per 8x2 cell. Add fast image swapping to blend the colors and fool the eye and you've got it. A big fast RAM expansion is required, tho.
Wow... is this seriously sticking within a(n expanded-RAM) 64's capabilities rather than being just a regular video cleverly processed in Avisynth or similar? It looks like there's too many colours too close together even for something like NUFLI, but then, as it's video, it's so hard to actually tell. Maybe there isn't. Especially as it's been converted from a rather fuzzy, wibbly-colour NTSC source, and MPG itself uses arguably similar colour-smushing tricks...
Since the screen physics is a key to the color blending effect in this technique, you have to shoot the TV with an external camera which could be fooled as human eye is. Otherwise, the effect is ruined
You can't adress that like native RAM on a 8-bit machine. I could imagine some device in the cartridge slot that serves paged RAM blocks like a framebuffer...
Right so you're still likely to be trying to mislead me into thinking your the author. You would have said "Yes", but that would have been a lie, right? It says James Cameron in the Alien films, but if I call myself James and upload a bit of video showing his name it doesn't make me him, right? So, any kind of code I write in this box will be easy for you to decode, yeah?
Right, well considering the amount of bullshit that gets talked on UA-cam with almost everybody pretending to be much better than they really are, you can forgive me for being skeptical? Anyway, I haven't time for this right now, but I might still throw some questions at you to test you out later. Give you a change to show off your knowledge! : )
It's on a C64. Hard to believe, it's genius stuff tweaking the C64 graphics modes into something superior by pure software... and leaning upon a very fast RAM expansion
@thelasthallow The 6510 in the C64 can address a maximum of 64K, but the RAM expansion has a DMA and can chunk data into and out of that 64K from the 16Mb at a byte per cycle. That's what this is doing, "loading" each frame from expansion RAM.
Imagine if this played back in the day before the adventure game by Datasoft, The Dallas Quest started. 😍
insert disk #70
Now I want to see the Knight Rider intro on C64. And what would also be awesome, a few Commodore 64 commercials ON the C64.
That quality looks better than my internet connection speed quality lol
This is insanely impressive!
Amazing stuff for such low memories and specs its just amazing if u come to think of it
Super Commodore 64.
best of eighties finally together :)
To those saying "Fake"... "fake" from a "could someone have done this with the hardware for a C64 available to 99.9999% of people in 1985?" Probably not.
And that isn't really the point. Yes there are some post "C64-era" additions to make this happen, but, the core equipment running to generate it is still the C64.
It is kind of like Ms. Pac Man vs. Pac Man on the Atari 2600... someone COULD have made the original Pac Man look like Ms. Pac Man on 2600, which along with making an actually playable E.T. game, might have staved off the VG crash of 1983.
Sloppiness and lack of imagination at a certain timepoint doesn't mean something couldn't have been done at an earlier point in history... the people to make it happen just were not there yet.
Crossbow, you still happen to amaze.. even years after all the prime time of c64 is gone ;)
maybe c64 including yourself just got immortal for unending coolness!
They were beautiful both of all
Incredible
Oh my... Unbelievable !
Wrong chord progression--it should go I-IV-I-I-I-I-bVII-V, not I-IV-I-IV-I-IV-I-IV-V
and the composer's name is spelled wrong.
haha yes
LOOOOOOOOL.
Its so funny seeing the intro with the sid playing, haha.]
I need to order me a 1541u.
This is ridiculous...ly awesome :D
It uses a serial connection, it works in a different way to RAM. In a serial connection you ( basically ) just keep asking the drive for the next byte of the file and drop in in the next space. You can ask the drive to page 256 bytes of data at a time.... 254 of those bytes are actual data and the other two point to the next part of the file it is a part of.
Crest rules, so does our beloved C64, the best computer ever made. \O/
@kelli217 Yes I have ... ;-) But RAMLink was not manufactured by Commodore (fan made by CMD). The only original expansion i remember was 256KB that came out around 1987. Cheers ;-)
That video quality is better than anything I have seen on the Sega Mega CD.The funny thing is , the C64 is only an 8-bit system.
Hahahhaah. AWESOME.
There Is Something With Class Music That Just Feels Me With Nostalgic Happyness.
Amazing!!
That's some truly superfly video encoding to get it to look that good within the standard 64 hardware. I didn't think it had the colour resolution to be able to do this. Either you'd have to lose a load of colour, or drop the rez, and that's definitely higher than 160x200...
The resolution is still 320 x 200. It's the color which is tweaked by software (improving the native mode) and fast swapping between images (to the eye it looks like a color blending) which are instantly fed into the video chip by the external REU
No, I am not forgetting that, what I am doing is answering the debate about whether you can write code for the 64 in which the 6502 runs a video CODEC which updates the bitmap buffer at 50Hz by performing a block image transfer itself, which you cannot and if you disagree then by all means produce the code which does it.
I think playing the Jean Nate After Bath Splash commercial on a Commodore C64 Video Player is something to try.
I always knew that 320x200 at 16 colors (equivalent to early EGA) could be impressive, if programmed properly (y)
You have obviously no idea what you're talking about. The CPU is not redrawing the bitmap, but the DMA chip in the REU is copying in the new frame.
Very mature.
its important to point out that the cartridge is doing the actual graphic processing.
Looks better than Sega CD video.
So... you take a sequence of IFLI images, use the REU's DMA and MMU to page-flip through them at 30Hz, and you have enough CPU left over for a SIDplayer routine.
Somebody let me know when they've figured out how to cram this in with the 7-bit 15kHz PWM sample playback method outlined in C= Hacking 20 and 21. :D
As I far as I understand, the CPU is free of most work because the REU is directly accessing the video RAM. So it's no wonder they can add music and other fx
What's IFLI?
@@saganandroid4175 Interlaced flexible line interpretattion - its a trick you can use on the c64 to make it display higher resolution images with more detailed color . Its rather technical so id look it up if you want to know more. People still discover clever and impossible .things on this nearly 40yr old computer.
64K ought to be enough for everyone!
I love the SID adaptation of the theme song, is it available in a sid or ogg file or something?
Great C64 rendition of this intro! I'd love to see this done with the intro to Newhart. Mancini would sound great on the SID. Oh, and the original intro to Wings, too!
Cool!
16 MB ram in a C64? im not sure but i thought i read somewhere saying that the CPU in the C64 couldn't address that much memory?
Welcome to the wonderful world of bank switching chunks of 64KB in and out of view when you need them...
i can,t believe that this all becomes possible in 4bit 16colors,cuzz today we need 64bit billions od colors to get perfect video.
it,s just simply amezing i bet this can also be done on a nes
BTW,
please do the A-Team intro next!
I always wanted a 1750 or 1764 expansion module.
Wow...all the people on here saying this is fake. They did not read the description.
Nice! :)
How much video can you pack with that in a normal C64 (including loader, player, sound etc.) and how long dows it load on a 1541-II ( or with Dreamload for example)?
To return to my point: The 6510 in the 64 cannot re-write a full bitmap screen at 50Hz. It can be page flipped with the VIC but the 6502 is only capable of moving about 2 or 3 k of data through RAM at 50Hz.
Well, that settles it, time to get a C64 DVR
@HydraSR It uses a 16MB REU (Ram Expansion Unit)
Unfortunately it requires 16MB of RAM
The REU was super expensive back in the days. I think you can get one now for hmm. €40-50.
If I wanted to load this on my C64 with REU, how many floppy disks would I require?
Yes, that's correct! Thanks for that localhbci. : )
Was the embedded in ice for the duration!
..and also the fact you have made two technical errors since we started talking: I'm not the one who said anything about 5fps, I wasn't debating anything about the REU and my program displays an X not a club.
I owe you nothing. You came here, claiming you know exactly how this works, but your C64 knowledge (as good as it might have been) is from the 1980s. Many new techniques and tricks were discovered since then. You also didn't know the first rule: "Don't question Crossbow, he knows his shit".
how is that done pls i wanna know
Any computer can do it given enough memory. This particular computer has 16MB of memory through an expansion module. So yeah, this is real.
1 mhz overkill
:D awesome!
Yep, that checks out. Hmmm, interesting, well, assuming you are him then you're a legend and your programs have been baffling people with their technical skill for years. SO well done, if you don't mind me saying so! : )
On 1MHz !
have you tried to play video on Z80/A
And if you're making comments like this one:
"No words about block transfers with the 6510 (which makes no sense on a standard C64, as it has the VIC)".
We're going to have to sit here for a very long time before you're up to speed whilst I teach you the basics of programming: Blit functions can be written in software and have existed in hardware since the VAX PDP-10 in 1966.
Most scroll code on the '64 uses strings of block transfers in 6510.
There you've got your argument now, feel better?
mh... so technically, it will be possible to watch a full movie with a bit of tweak if you install the sd expansion, p.e. It has a surprisingly good quality
Ha. I was actually about to say this looks like a grainy Sega CD video before I saw this comment. About the same quality.
I gotta test this on my real C64. My 1541 Ultimate can emulate a REU. Please link the disk image(s).
This was ripped and taken from Trod channel.
With that being said i do believe it's the C64.
The only C64 thing PRESENT in this video IS THE SOUND
I understand what you mean, the c64 can't do video, let alone full screen and so fluid.
ha, a 386 PC would struggle to do this.
It is a Commodore 64 with s 16MB REU expansion. So yes it's really a C64.
@@pelgervampireduck
It works in the vice emulator with 16MB REU enabled.
Cool! Where can I download the demo? I would like to test it on my C-64 with the Ultimate II+ cartridge.
www.forum64.de/index.php?dereferer/&ref=aHR0cCUzQS8vZGFkZGxlci10LWwuZGUvZG93bmxvYWRzL0M2NF8xNTQxVV9OdXZpZV9EYWxsYXMuemlw
i believe this is real bcoz i have knight rider intro :)
At a guess, I'd say about a hundred? 16MB into 160kb?
@mspenprice, this is a crappy encoding of the video that blurs it a lot.
the 'original' made heavy use of dithering.
The music sounds.....different.
16MB ram how? 6502 would be able to address like 1MB?
16 MB are in the REU and it copies them on request into the main memory.
Just pageflipping?
Can this be done with a clip from Family Guy to see how it looks?
Where can I download disk image (rom)? it is possible run this demo on emulator?
What does the gameplay look like?
1MB/s? :D How can you address 16MB with 8/16 bit instructions? 4KB bank switching?
Is this available for download.....or is it actually fake?
From all the movies in the world.... why TF this one?
I think color palette of C64 is put to quite good use here.
Cause the creator love Charlene Tilton ? :D
Maybe because it was one of the most popular shows in the 80's when the C64 came out, and the creator thought was appropriate?
C64 with 16MB RAM????
@tribeofthesun
What Framerate?
It must have taken ages to load this thing :p
Don't listen to YouRolandTube, I can tell you matter of factly he is wrong. The 64 is capable of flipping the 8k bitmaps in memory even faster than 50Hz, it can also scroll them using VIC tricks, but the 1Mhz 6510 cannot redraw an 8k bitmap at 50Hz.
No, because I have no way of verifying you were the author and a lot of people talk a lot of bull with the help of google, wikipedia, etc. It woudln't prove anything. Let's start easy with my firing off something very simple from the top of my head and you telling me what it does. Not what the instructions mean, but what it actually does. Here you are..
SEI
LDA #$58
LDX #$04
LOOP STA $0400,X
DEX
BPL LOOP
CLI
RTS
SuperCPU?
It runs on the original 6510. 0.985 MHz. I'm assuming a PAL C64. The NTSC one runs at 1.02 MHz. Not that the little difference in clock frequency would matter a whole lot.
@@cliffharaldjallamekk9845 You are saying this video is running on stock C64?
@@Corsa15DT you need the good old Commodore REU (converted to 16MB) or newly developed hardware or emulation
@@chris-do i find it difficult to believe the 6502 can move all those pixels that fast with only 1 mhz..
@@Corsa15DT It does need the extra of memory to manage. 1764 REU. But the rest of the system runs on standard hardware.
The 8 bit cpu of C64 can not adress 16mb of ram, this is fake as hell.
They used a bank switched cartridge.
16MB ram :-O ?
Well I apologise for doubting you Mr Crossbow. My excuse is, well, you know how many fakes appear on UA-cam? And how many people want to come on and show off their new found fact they just read on Wikipedia five minutes before to start arguments about it? And the ones who read a few documents on rendering and suddenly think they're a technical expert and nobody else could know as much as they do? It happens too often.
Yep.... I'm wrong. I apologise for My mistake! ; )
Saving this on REAL 5.25"-Floppies ... let's see
- 170 KB every side
- Speed: 40 Bytes/Second
- I guess 5 MB Video size
Disks: 5,000,000 Bytes / (2 Sidesx170,000 Bytes per Disk) = 15 Disks (double sided!)
Time to load Video: 5,000,000 Bytes / 40 Bytes per Second = 125000 Seconds = 34 Hours ..........
Take a video tape instead !!
...or just use CMD's 3.5 inch disks or hard drives instead...
I wonder whether this video used FLI mode.
So, you're claiming to be Crossbow of Crest? Right?
C64 has no real 320x200 resolution is color mode .
320 x 200 in 2 color per 8x8 cell as native mode. Software tweaked up to 3 colors per 8x2 cell. Add fast image swapping to blend the colors and fool the eye and you've got it. A big fast RAM expansion is required, tho.
Wow... is this seriously sticking within a(n expanded-RAM) 64's capabilities rather than being just a regular video cleverly processed in Avisynth or similar? It looks like there's too many colours too close together even for something like NUFLI, but then, as it's video, it's so hard to actually tell. Maybe there isn't. Especially as it's been converted from a rather fuzzy, wibbly-colour NTSC source, and MPG itself uses arguably similar colour-smushing tricks...
Since the screen physics is a key to the color blending effect in this technique, you have to shoot the TV with an external camera which could be fooled as human eye is. Otherwise, the effect is ruined
16MB RAM.........WTF!
You can't adress that like native RAM on a 8-bit machine.
I could imagine some device in the cartridge slot that serves paged RAM blocks like a framebuffer...
chords are wrong
J.R. WILL SHOOT HIMSELF IN THE END!
Coool stufffff, but some major errors in the music arrangement.
Can i download this as a *.D64 File??? ;) ;)
Right so you're still likely to be trying to mislead me into thinking your the author. You would have said "Yes", but that would have been a lie, right? It says James Cameron in the Alien films, but if I call myself James and upload a bit of video showing his name it doesn't make me him, right? So, any kind of code I write in this box will be easy for you to decode, yeah?
mmmm..but with c64???really???
How could this be done on a real C64?
1541 U2+
Right, well considering the amount of bullshit that gets talked on UA-cam with almost everybody pretending to be much better than they really are, you can forgive me for being skeptical? Anyway, I haven't time for this right now, but I might still throw some questions at you to test you out later. Give you a change to show off your knowledge! : )
The bass is still totally wrong. :-)
Gwaaa! Base error! ;) Guru meditation!
It's on a C64. Hard to believe, it's genius stuff tweaking the C64 graphics modes into something superior by pure software... and leaning upon a very fast RAM expansion