How To Hone A Winning Engine Block - NHRA Champ Greg Anderson Shares His Secrets!
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- Опубліковано 27 кві 2023
- When NHRA Pro Stock's winningest driver opens the door to his shop and shows you how to hone an engine block , you might want to get out a note pad! Greg Anderson reveals the machine, the process, the inspection tools (and even the abrasives) he uses to hone race winning engine blocks.
#engine #enginebuilding
For more on the block used in this video, check out the Lake Speed playlist from @Stapleton42 .
For more about the Surface System used to measure the block, check out this video: • How To Set Up & Use Th...
Want to learn how to do it yourself? Check out this video: • Hands On Cylinder Honi... - Авто та транспорт
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In college I built along with my friend a stock for 302. (We were poor college kids)
We meticulously went over every machining step. Got a new set of stock replacement pistons. So, it was truly stock.
Balanced the rotating assembly to withing a gram. Honed, align honed, trued up the deck and heads.
We put out 288hp when factory was 210. Man we were proud.
👍👍
I used to not care much for Mr Anderson, but it was only because he kept beating my favorite pro stock driver and friend Allen Johnson. After watching your videos he really is a cool dude. Since Allen is no longer now pull for Mr Anderson on race weekend.
Greg is a great guy!
Yeah I kinda felt that way too
WJ all of the way
Both of you are a total class act. These videos are appreciated
Wow, thank you!
Amazing machine. Great idea, for accuracy, to torque down a dummy cylinder head
I came up with "plateau honeing" back in 1980 in prostock. It is just applying normal bearing design to cylinder surfaces and there is a friction an oil control element to it also. Before that Pro stockers used a straight fine hone finish.
Very nice guys.
The Rottler and Gregg's skills came throught on the Ford.
Thanks for sharing.
Take care, Ed.
Thanks!
I had to screenshot the engine. I was hoping it was a Cleveland but not so. Thanks for all the videos
Yep, It's an R block.
I used to hate to see Greg run (especially against a Dodge) but now that Dodge is Pro Stock history and I see that he does his homework, I am really impressed with him. Thanks for educating me even though at 73 I don't see me competing against you. I may never use the tech you are showing but maybe I can impress my garage buddies with my knowledge. Thanks again and good luck in your racing.
dodge
Thanks for watching!
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON IN PRO STOCK SINCE 1983 WHEN THEY MANDATED TO 500 CUBIC INCH RULE. WHAT GREG ANDERSON AND THE REST OF THE GM CHEVY GUYS WERE RUNNING UNDER THE HOOD. WAS CALL THE DRCE - DRAG RACE COMPETITION ENGINE. THE 500 CUBIC INCH RULE WAS GM'S WAY HAVING THE NHRA IN THEIR POCKETS FOR YEARS. IS HOW THEY GOT THE NHRA TO MANDATE THAT 500 CUBIC INCH RULE. TO GET RID OF THE FORD CLEVELAND DOMINANCE. THEN WARREN JOHNSON ALONG WITH GM TOOK A OLDSMOBILE BLOCK AND STUFFED IT LIKE A THANKSGIVING DAY TURKEY WITH A ROTATING ASSEMBLY FROM A BIG BLOCK CHEVY. THEN THEY MADE A BIG PAIR OF FORD CLEVELAND HEADS FOR IT. SO WHAT GREG ANDERSON, WARREN JOHNSON AND ALL THE REST OF THEM WINNING RACES UNDER THE HOOD OF THEIR CHEVYS WAS NOTHING MORE THAN A BIG CUBE FORD CLEVELAND MOTOR. THIS IS THE REASON FORD DOES NOT PARTICIPATE IN PRO STOCK. BECAUSE IT IS ALREADY A FORD POWERED VENUE. THIS IS WHEN BOB GLIDDEN WENT OUT AND GOT THE OLD BOSS 429 NASCAR MOTOR. AND BY HIMSELF, ONE CAR ALONE. YEAR AFTER YEAR CRUSHED A ARMY OF GM PRODUCTS. GM YEAR AFTER YEAR STARTED TO CAST NEW HEADS,BLOCKS TO MAKE THEIR BIG CUBE CLEVELAND ENGINE FASTER TO BEAT GLIDDEN'S BOSS. AND AS THEY GOT FASTER GLIDDEN WOULD SLIGHTLY PORT HIS BOSS HEADS KEEPING HIM AHEAD OF THE ALL OF THEM.
THIS IS THE REASON I CALL IT THE PHONY RACING CHEVY DYNASTY. FOR DECADES SINCE THE AMA BAND OF 1957. CHEVY HAS BEEN CHEATING THEIR WAY TO THE FINISH LINE..
One factor not mentioned about using the torque plate is bolt length. Ford uses bolts of the same length but the small block Chevy has used 3 lengths since 1955. The exposed bolts are short and the others under the valve cover are long. In the past, the 2 end bolts under the covers were slightly shorter than the other 7. I have spoken with some people during an AERA webinar and mentioned this and the speaker said that the bolts that are used should realistically be the length of the bolts used in final assembly. This means spacers are required for 9 of the head bolts. He said it makes a difference if all the bolts are short.
Great point.
Great stuff! Very excited to see the results! Would love more info on the best uses for gas ported pistons, versus rings, versus vertical gas ports, when to use what and why?
Vertical gas ports on the piston are best for max power, but they have the shortest life.
Gas ported piston rings have the longest life with the same power increase as lateral gas ported pistons.
Dang it, I don't see part 2 yet! haha I'm really looking forward to seeing what the new parts do (and same cam).
I'm going to hone my block so of course I'm on UA-cam figuring it out and I get a good idea on how the "garage guy" would do it then I see this... the best way to do it. Pretty cool stuff.
Thanks for watching. The other video is coming out soon.
i hadn a question more than a comment. you said how important the honing numbers are for valley depth. this is the 4th thime ive built the motr and every time we went deeper on the valleys the bore looked better. last hone was at 65-70 depth this time they went 130 on the valley does that spound to deep? it sounds a little deep and i dont want to have consumption issues. its a 4cyl turbo app with forged pistons and iron block at 507 hp atm tune wise and anywhere from 25-30 psi boost.
I can't afford this, but I want too. Nice work snd machine.
You and me both!
I see you machined it with the main caps in place - might mention the importance of that for the shape of the bore bottoms?
Quite some years back, there was a fad for hot honing - running hot water through the coolant passages to replicate the thermal distortion - have you noticed any difference and/or would it be worth-while for alloy rather than CI blocks?
Hot honing is great for regular cast iron and Aluminum blocks.
gregg is awesome great video lake can you tell him i need my harley cylinders
honed on that rottler
LOL
@TotalSeal.... Your videos are a great asset to help us understand so many aspects of the honing and ring process....
Sincere question here... that NO ONE answers...
WHERE can we find the shops that run the new Rottler equipment that are production shops that will take in small shop or idividual work?
Over the recent years... in most of your videos.. you are showing the process on the all of the great new machines... Great to show these processes...but with no facility to offer the services... where are we??
These new Rottler machines are incredible.. and offer control in the builds to provide 1)Accuracy 2)Cylinder-to-Cylinder repeatability to give the the RVK/RPK values... All so we have engines that require only minor break in... and provide what we need.
I've called Rottler and myriad shops with ZERO headway with this question.
And YES... Sure.... an experienced machinist.... with fastidious attention to detail, using an older machine... can provide the result... BUT... (big but)...you will have a better chance of correct outcome, repeatedly, with the modern hones as shown in your MANY videos.
Finding the combo your show in your vid here... hit and miss (more miss across the country)
v=w_QvQaHYzNs
Any help with this and some direction would be much appreciated.
Thanks for the reply. Ed Kiebler and Scott Rowe at Rottler know where these machines are. They can help you.
Ive watched a lot of your videos. From what Ive gathered using Sunnen stones, Ive changed how I I remove down to .0004-.0005" with a 70 or 120 grit depending on how much boost it will see and then finish up with a 280. I like to run a ball hone in reverse 2-3 strokes to go against the honed grain and then forward another 2-3 and it looks awesome. I am pretty confident my numbers close to right but im planning to rent a profilometer to be precise. Can you give me any advice on how to find info on setting it up? Its a Mitutoyo SJ-210 series 178 and Ill only have it a few days to check my Rvk and Rpk values. Is that the same model used in your videos? Thanks a lot for all the helpful info!
Thanks for the question. Here’s a video on how to set it up.
ua-cam.com/video/yk74chDVM8Y/v-deo.html
Music sounds H.E.D.dy 😉 We see you Pete!
When installing a torque plate should we be using number 2 permatex on head bolts that go into water ?
That is not needed when installing the torque plate just for honing.
What kind of storage procedure/engine fogging/whatever do you use for storing an engine?
I'll assume you unloaded the valve train.
We highly recommend the Foggit product for storage.
I want my 14 Ram 5.7 bored and honed like this with a rottler. I am an hour from Nashville TN. Where can I get this done?
Shacklett Automotive near the Fairgrounds. They have a Rottler and know how to hone like this.
What are you saying at 3:03 ? What are you not doing?
That intake manifold in the background 🤫
Good eyes!
What was said at 3:03 into video ? I could not for the life of me hear or reason out what he said he could see they were not doing. Then the guest said well some people live and die for it etc.
Any help appreciated
Stay blessed
I don't have torque plates at home, can I still hone my engine?
Yes, you can hone an engine without torque plates. it just won't have as good of bore geometry as if you did have torque plates.
Honing an engine block to perfection is easy! You just take one of those spring loaded three stone hone thingies and chuck it in a handheld drill and go to town on that thing! 🤣
I wonder if they would build me a watercolled 1.8T or a 2.8 VR6? I luv to have a solid motor built by such a great team.
Aloha from Hawaii
Aloha! The guys at KB Titan just build Pro Stock engines...
If you don't have access to a profilometer, what's a Good "All Around" honing procedure/Diamond selection to achieve correct surface finish? And does it only apply to "new" Rings that need more valley or does these new procedures of honing benefit older style Rings packages also? Thanks
We highly recommend investing in a profilometer as that is the only way to know what your honing process created. Short of that, follow the procedure shown in this video. That will get you in the ballpark.
@@TotalSeal 10-4 Thanks
Great video guys can’t tell you how much I appreciate the info... I live in southeast Louisiana... I don’t own the machine equipment or a profilometer to do my own cylinder finishing but would really like to get my blocks done by someone who does... could you recommend anyone in the Gulf Coast region that you know has the equipment to do it correctly... if not then could you maybe put up a list of the shops that you know have this equipment outside my area... I know this is a tall order but I think many of your viewers would benefit from this as well as me... I appreciate your time
I have never seen a rusted cylinder Clean up with .001 honing.
Greg and the Rottler hone got it done.
What determines cross hatch angle?
Mechanically, it is the speed of the stroke and rotational speed of the hone head. With the Rottler CNC hone, you just enter the value you want, and the hone does all the math to deliver that angle.
In regards to how to choose a cross hatch angle, we made a video on that as well: ua-cam.com/video/cRINK2O63GM/v-deo.html
@@TotalSeal awsome
3:00 Hot honing is an impossible dream. Just heating up the whole thing does nothing but make the entire thing bigger. It does not simulate the heat in a running engine and never will/can. The upper cylinder runs hotter than the lower cylinder and much hotter than the bottom of the block while the cooling water flow changes it all again. Then there is heat input into the block from the cylinder head that is uneven.
How much for honing a Block? Where are you guys located?
Contact the folks at Rottler Mfg to find a shop with one of these hones near you.
Rattler hone best hone in the business.
One time we honed a rusty block and it had a pinhole rust holes basically the the block was toast. Not worth taking a chance on the block when they're dime a dozen.
Those rust pinholes may not have even made a noticeable difference in power or blowby.
If it made the same horsepower after 20 years,it had the wrong valve springs in it initially.
No loss of spring rate over 20 years of storage. We have the original build sheet. The spring rates are within a pound or two now as when the engine was built.
Wow!
Very professional builder, and top notch information!
Let your guest speak and stop interrupting.
You talked too much, and showed very little. ¥
¥¥