There is some data that has come out from South Korean insurance companies in the last few days, showing EVs are slightly more likely to catch fire than an IC car, plus the obvious much higher cost to the insurance companies when they do.
@@stevenmark8156 It is only slightly more likely, but frequency of the fires is not the only concern, given that the majority of the EVs that are catching fire are almost new, and the additional damage caused by an EV fire, the increase in risk is significant from my perspective.
This has been coming for years. Another problem that will get more evident is range degradation as batteries age. EV cars are disposable devices, after a couple of years regular use they're done.
Definitely a good idea ,I've been doing it for years now at the shop. No car batteries or tool batteries left on charge unattended. And hopefully I won't become blind to the sign on the exit door , shut off chargers and compressor. (The pressure valve acted up once and the compressor ran for about 22hrs straight, the room was like 120 degrees and when I shut it off ,the white label on the motor turned brown. Figured it shorted but that was like 12yrs ago. Yep the sign has been working for me so far
As a tow truck driver, EV to ICE breakdowns are starting to get concerning. We get about 4 - 6 EV breakdown calls to 40 - 50 ICE calls a week right now, it was about 0 - 1 EVs a month like a year ago. Our ICE calls have stayed the same, but EV calls are starting to climb rapidly, and they only have what, 7% market share right now?. We are now getting about 1 EV fire (or battery gas offing) call a month, i'd say ICE fire calls have stayed the same at about 6 a month. Still the number one reason for ICE fires is maintenance and people not taking care of their cars, where as EV fires are always something to do with the battery or while it's charging at home or at a public charger. Because we are within a large city, the tow company i work for is getting a custom tub trailer to haul burnt up EVs so if they reignite, it won't damage the tow truck, because yeah, we've already had the joys of getting to experience that once.
I've been running an ebike for years, cos they're perfect for my commute & errands. Apart from fire risk, 2 big problems are: the batteries degrade quick, after 2 years your range is nearly halved, plus they hate the cold. Again, your range is halved below freezing. I only use Bosch cos the QC is excellent, new batteries are £500 & easily switched. With a car that's not the case, battery changes cost tens of thousands. Economically it works out for me, as other costs compared to car/motorcycle are minimal (no road tax, insurance, parking fees, etc.). But I wouldn't dream of buying a battery powered car, it has all the disadvantages of an ebike with none of the advantages.
I think you're also forgetting that a gas-powered vehicle can also spontaneously combust. Especially when you're not too sure of the condition of your own vehicle. You don't know if you suddenly develop a gas leak or an oil leak and it leaks onto an electrical component sparking engine fire. Unfortunately there are no published studies about how often that happens but if you're a firefighter you'd know it definitely does especially during the winter. That also accounts for a good portion of all the garage fires in this country not to mention the fires that happened in parking structures. So blaming EVS for some fires is inherently stupid! Also keep into account that there are other fueled vehicles on the road light diesel or propane that also have had fires and are also dangerous in their own right! By no means am I saying that EVS are perfect, however I am saying that you have to take into account all information about all vehicles before you make an assumption that EVS are the devil
@richardeisenmenger2678 You’re using an argument based on emotions and hypotheticals from a position of ignorance. In reality, spontaneous fires in ICE vehicles are substantially less common, but even more importantly they are SUBSTANTIALLY less destructive, as the fire moves far slower than an EV battery fire. In reality, gasoline tanks are sealed and it takes a serious fire going for a good while to compromise them. EV battery fires can go from no sign of fire to full blown conflagration in ten seconds, and are WAY WAY WAY harder to put out. Educate yourself on the subject, stop speaking out of ignorance.
dump it. The hybrids were great.....If you want real electric cars, go for the water or the air utilization. It is doable. The lithium batteries are NOT providing an electric car. It is a battery operated car and it takes a heck of a lot of them.......enough to create a huge fire ! when they get wet.......it gets worse.
During a collision, they catch fire and explode. First responders cannot get to the victims. It burns too hot and too fast. People die who would normally get saved. They also burn in their garages while charging......and they burn the house where the garage is. Time to make separate garages again? Plus, it is not easy to find a place to fix them or work on them. Their facilities are isolated.....and no one wants to touch these cars. They don't know how. WE also have seen some that drive out of control and will not stop.....What the Hell ? The driver is a victim, no longer a "driver"......He paid too much for that car that is providing extra cremation. Killing 2 birds with one stone ? Bah.......
On one of our complex properties, the insurance carrier declined renewal unless we prohibited EV charging in the enclosed garages. The other option was to go with a new carrier that allowed it, for an extra 160k per year. The next step is them denying EVs in the garages altogether, charging or not. It's coming...
I can’t wait for EVs to be banned from parking inside or underneath all structures. I no longer park in parking garages due to the risk some EV will park next to me and self destruct. Makes a lot of things very inconvenient for me!
Maybe they have these employees called Actuaries, who study actual losses. Rather than the Teslites cry of “ICE fires are 100x more common than EV fires”.
Our local hospital has chargers inside the parking garage right at the main door to the hospital.and the garage elevator. All EVs should be placed on hold until we have a better power source for the electric motors.
@edc1569 Aside from having a tiny fraction of the energy density of gasoline, there is also no practical way to use it as a motor vehicle fuel, whether you care about practicality or not. Do you really want to go back to steam powered cars that go 12mph and require someone constantly tending to a fireplace just to keep your car going down the road slightly faster than walking pace?
Ive been "recharging" my 2006 Toyota at the Shell station for 19 years, easy-peazy, no fires, no explosions, no drama, no loss of range, my gas tank never wore out, recharges in 55 seconds, it's a beautiful thing. Don't mess with it 😉 Keep it simple stupid.
I live on vancouver island and am concerned about an ev fire when traveling on the ferry. It's basically a floating 4 level parking garage carrying 370 cars and commercial trucks.
that's a fair concern. You have time to think about your action plan, your escape route, the location and condition of safety equipment on board and which areas may be smoked out by a fire.
@@YouzACoopa I've thought about that, and the life boat deck is where I'd be heading. All of the car decks are below and passenger decks above. Would get bad in a hurry.
@@kradius2169 You'll laugh at this then. BC is planning to use hybrid ferries starting in 2027 and "The company plans to operate these new vessels exclusively in battery-electric mode, using renewable BC Hydro electricity"
Good! We should be slowing EV progress. There is NO need for these dangerous vehicles in the market. There is only misguided interest by people who falsely believe they’re better for the environment. If I owned a parking garage, or any kind of structure with multi-vehicle parking adjacent to it, I would absolutely PROHIBIT electric vehicles from parking in it. I feel like that’s coming at some point soon. I have an auto shop and I don’t allow EVs to park within 100’ of the building, let alone inside it. I’ll never work on one, ever. We need more people to take these kinds of hard line stances to put a stop to this EV madness once and for all.
State Farm's new policy is self serving in two ways. It reduces the exposure of their own assets, and it reduces their exposure by discouraging others from driving BEVs. That is good business practice. Increasing exposure to risk is what many government actors are doing. And corporations largely owned by retirement funds under the control of blackrock et al.
Liability assessment is their business, so if they are backing away, it indicates that some aspect of the greater picture doesn’t add up to a profitable venture, at this time. It’s still early days for EVs, lots to be learned, the Government needs to realize that their arbitrary timelines aren’t any help at all.
I have been saying for ten+ years that EVs were never going to be a viable replacement for fossil fuel vehicles, for a variety of reasons. This is nothing new, nor will EVs persevere. It won’t be too many more years before the bubble will pop completely and we’ll go back to more or less normal.
@ptanv-x2g I’m in total agreement, and I’d love to get back to normal, can’t happen fast enough for me either. The people pulling the strings are so sure this is all going to work out in the end, they won’t be swayed. Unless saner minds get in control, we are just going to have to let them discover it for themselves, that there carbon neutral world is a total fantasy.
China has the most EV charging stations for any country and they are making well over 1 million EV cars per years Up to 3 years ago they reporting up to 3000 (three thousand) EV cars spontaneously catching fire while unattended Since then they have NOT released any more annual data on EV fires, so you know its really gotten extremely bad and out of hand.
Using the current figures that the CCP admits to, a Chinese academic has recently calculated that if ALL cars in China were electric, then they could potentially be looking at 42,900 ev fires. PER DAY. Oh and don’t forget electric scooters and bikes. The number of electric bike fires alone in China in the first half of 2022? 8,370! Then consider the disaster-level potential that a really major solar event could cause. The sort of high-energy discharge from the sun that overwhelms the planet’s usual natural defences and causes things like power cables to arc. Were the Carrington Event of 1859 to happen today, the results could well be catastrophic. Back then the geomagnetic storm knocked out the telegraph network in Europe and North America, giving electric shocks to telegraph operators and causing telegraph pylons to throw sparks. In today’s world that relies on electricity? Hardly bears thinking about.
I have never seen gas station in underground parking. But I have seen many EV chargers in underground parking of Malls, Office premises and worst of all apartment complexes sometime right next to stairs and elevators!!!
@@samuelkeystone We are at the physical limits of technology for batteries, and have been for a few decades now. It'll be longer than the lifespan of anyone alive right now before the next gen tech comes about for batteries...if we haven't hit the physical limits. It's safe to say that not using EV is the right answer with regard to that problem.
@AdrianFahrenheitTepes But they refuse to use them. Those aren't as profitable and everyone invested in what's already being pushed will lose money. Politicians don't like losing their personal money
Yes, I think they are right, even outdoor gas stations have safety provisions, and nobody fuels cars in parking garages. I have a battery powered drill and lawn equipment, and I don’t even leave them charge overnight. We will never fully convert to electric, just not feasible on many fronts.
EV chargers attract EVs, why on earth would you want that? Insurance companies crunch numbers for a living. This is absolutely damning. Electric insanity must end.
Many Parking garage operators put EV charges near stairs and worse. Because many treat like Mix of Handicap spaces and Benefit to assign easy parking for EV users/owners. Many even put EV chargers next to Handicap spaces that are "regulated" under ADA and many Building Codes.
I'm not interested in EV adoption. It is completely unsuitable for my needs. That said, State Farm has made the right decision in protecting their operational needs, and the personnel in the buildings
Here's a question: If State Farm is not allowing EV charging in their parking garages, why would they insure businesses or homeowners who have EV charging going on in their garages?
It’s difficult to cancel homeowners insurance. They will need a while to get things in place. I predict there will be careful consideration (may have already been decided) of dropping anyone with a home charger and making them park their cars outside.
Instead of "OR", use "AND". Yes, State Farm is doing the right thing. AND Yes, actions like this will retard EV adoption. Perception more effective than stats - this is scary stuff. State Farm spent money to install chargers, now will spend money to uninstall. Policy holders will pay.
Risk avoidance is the cheapest, most effective means of risk management. Since there really is no return that outweighs the risk of keeping them, they can't make a case for it. That's why they're doing it.
If A fire blanket is available, it should be accessible to all in an emergency. Like Defibrillators are for a health emergency. Placing a fire blanket is actually quite simple if you see some U tube and company examples. Waiting for responders may not be expedient besides, they should have a blanket with them..
Your responsibility is not to do the emergency responders' work. It's to not give emergency responders more work having to save you. Your safety is your priority.
Thank you for this video, my company is about to install chargers near a primary building in our test facility. This is a timely video. Insurance companies study the numbers and know the risks, there is something to this move on their part.
whats needed is not a blanket in a box though this is good, whats needed i think is a somewhat heavy frame actually suspending a ready drop fire blanket with a gas station like pump emergency button or pull lever at somewhat of a safe distance of a already engulfed Ev, instead of it running away with the farm before the responders can get there. for all ev parking.
I worked at a company with a 6 level garage. They only put the chargers on 2-6. They also had fire suppression systems and ventilation systems. I think it’s hard to retrofit an older garage to have ev charging.
I can understand the insurance companies doing this. It’s a symptom of people not realizing they don’t need to be at 100% charge all the time like having a 100% full tank of gas.
I think your comment said it all: Would you put a gasoline pump in a parking garage? And if you did, would you place it next to an elevator shaft or stairwell? Your analogy seems pretty straightforward to me....
It may slow EV adoption a little bit, not a bad thing as much less flammable batteries will soon be coming out. Your comment about the suppression system is spot on. Fires weaken concrete and warp rebar, 99.999% of parking ramps. Parking ramps are expensive. State Farm's move is limiting the exposure to liability for damage to the structure. Note, they are just planning to move them elsewhere, not get rid of them.
Insurance companies need to refuse to insure EVs, as well as any property where EVs are kept or charged. Same for any place that manufactures EVs or EV batteries. EVs present an extreme risk to life and property, wherever they exist. Notice insurance companies canceling policies in Florida because of hurricanes and California because of wildfires and mudslides. EVs present a far greater risk than either of those things.
@@edc1569 Pistols and rifles don't just go off by themselves. They don't have a mind (computer) of their own. They don't explode while just sitting there. They don't cause horrible accidents because they were trying to drive themselves. They don't require inhuman child labor to make. I have quite a few pistols and rifles, and I have no problem keeping them in my house. Years ago I considered the possibility of getting an ebike. Until I found out the truth. Now I would never even consider allowing one on my property. EVs are extremely dangerous in so many ways. You need to open your eyes and your mind and see the truth.
If you have an EV and charging station at home you better start looking for a new insurance company. I’d be looking for insurance companies putting a clause in their contract about fires started by charging an EV or even just having one on your property. Are parking restrictions for EVs coming soon. The fire that water can’t contain is going to present some special hazards that will require special consideration. Parking anywhere other than on the street or an open lot may become a problem soon. I certainly wouldn’t want one charging in my garage while I was sleeping. Outside and covered by one of those blankets would cut the risk somewhat. The first major fire resulting in significant loss of life is going to bring some changes very quickly.
To answer your question... Both. If you can't publicly deploy a technology safely, it shouldn't be deployed at all. We need to get this right. EV owners need to understand that safety measures aren't there to discriminate against EV owners, it's to protect their safety
the infographic implied 10 out of 80 EV fires started even when not charging .. if so, i am surprised they are still allowing EVs to park in those car parks
In a multi-story parking plaza, will suppressing the BEV fire using fire blanket increase risk of structural damage and caving in of the BEV into floors below🤔❤👍
It sounds absurd - "safety is in a way of innovation and adaption of UNSAFE vehicle"... what should we do, just accept lack of safety. Why can't we alternatively just reconsider pushing BEV adaption until suitable battery technology is found? Or forcing safety measure like mandatory sprinklers (and I know they won't fully extinguish the battery fire, but it prevents fire spreading to other cars and overall it safe the parking lot from collapsing, like in Luton) and stricter battery design requirements that would require isolating each cells so that thermal runaway from once cell does not blow whole battery (sure that will reduce power density, but it should be safety first)? What it is so important to adopt something that is clearly not safe?!
@@akshonclip No... they should have been there in the first place, BEVs just highlighted existing issue. Sprinklers should have always been "code" in all public buildings and all shared residences, it wasn't... because rich property developers have bribed government to relax the requirements so that they can make more profit. So now, it is just good time to go back and put them in the code, retrofit to all the properties. It is in no way different from having fire exists and fire doors and banning of flammable construction materials. It should have been done before, but better later than never. But BEVs should improve for sure. Problem is in principle the same - now rich BEV makers are putting pressure (and bribing) government not to introduce requirements to make their cars safe. And that is why it is so stupid that we have to buy unsafe cars and park them in unsafe parking. Solution - both parking and cars needs to be made better and the only way to achieve it is to make it mandatory.
really, what is the point ? it all sucks. Besides being dangerous, they are expensive. What happens to these batteries when they are no longer charging ? where do they bury them ? we have enough trouble with our re-cycling. You cannot recycle these things, anywhere safe. Now, investors are running to Blackrock and Vangard to buy stocks, as the world knows, they are about to dig mines full of lithium.....like in North-Carolina . Hmmm. Lithium is a wanted mineral......State Farm may just change that !
The heck with EV expansion; State Farm is definitely making the right move! EV buyers are oblivious to the dangers and all the drawbacks of owning one.
At 2:48, "the need to expand EV adoption"? What????? State Farm's action demonstrates the need to abandon EVs for the sake of personal safety and for the health of the planet!
If this company is aware of the dangers/risks with EVs and charging, and DIDN'T do anything about it, then they could be liable if a fatal fire broke out.
If State Farm starts with the parking garage at work will they next go with removing charges in garages at residents . Will State Farm try to get better regulations in placement of charges in parking lots too ? I think EV cars work will this rezolt in no longer Insuring EV vehicles totally ? Thank you for the good content. 😊
I think State farm is doing it out of caution. Because of the parking garages that I've seen in the Iowa City cedar rapids Coralville area the Eevee charges that that are installed there are near egresses. I think it was the mistaken idea that this would be convenient for the users. In which some of the departments in this area have had fires near the EV charging stations some of them have been because of the cars but none of them have been because of the chargers. These were rolled out so fast that people did not have the time to figure the safety aspects of the charging systems. That's my opinion anyway...
Some types of chargers have big assed lithium batteries inside. They trickle charge the batteries from the grid, the batteries charge the car. I work in a large soil remediation pit, and we had a failed charger placed on the property over night a few months ago. The had it placed in a steel roll off bin and buried in sand. It sat for a couple weeks or so before they removed the batteries from inside of it. There was a concern that the batteries could go banana sandwich for a while. The sand is meant to melt into glass and become an insulator in case they flame up, btw. There was 8 big lithium batteries inside, each about twice the size of the older equipment batteries and a guy was sent out to discharge them so they could be safely moved to be recycled. As it turns out, the issue was caused by a non certified charger adapter sold at Best Buy. The charging port on the car was also damaged. Have fun with that.
If any insurance company does this kind of thing, pay attention. They are not in the business of handling out cash for irresponsible behavior. They know stuff. Like the “Farmers Insurance” guy says, “ . . . Seen a thing or two . . . .know a thing or two.”
"According to the Korea Insurance Development Institute, the number of fire and explosion incidents involving EVs has been higher than that of internal combustion engine vehicles over the past five years. EVs had 0.93 incidents per 10,000 vehicles, while non-EVs had a lower rate of 0.90 incidents. Moreover, the financial losses incurred in these incidents were significantly higher for EVs, with the average loss per incident tallied at 13 million won ($9,700), which is 1.9 times higher than the average of 6.9 million won for non-EVs."
STATE Farm's entirr existence depends on good risk assessment. I'd trust their judgement before others. Also, he assumes a "need" for more EVs. Try proving that claim. Even if true, we need SAFETY FIRST
we had this problem w with the hoverboard an certain models of computer laptops, whoever thought it was a great idea to put a scaled up version of a hoverboard into a car wasn't thinking straight. I'm totally against EVs for what they ultimately bring...
It's hard to ever argue against taking reasonable precautions but we should also be letting the data guide us. For now, it would also be better to exercise caution BEFORE installing chargers, etc. instead of after. Unfortunately, most AHJs just don't have all the guidance or answers that they need compared to how quickly things are changing.
If an insurance company is pulling the plug, then you know there is a known pattern and i thin in the end homes that have chargers in the garage will lose coverage also. Charge outside or at fast chargers will be your only option after insurance sets the rules.
If an insurance company, that has all the data to examine, decides to remove the chargers from their properties, the rest of the world should pay attention. They are in the business to be risk averse.
Need SCBA, requires lots of training, health physicals, close shave, etc. No way a random bystander would safely use it. Basic PPE masks do not stop poison gas, do not protect eyes. Safest action is run, run, run.
Best thing to do is close down all charging stations, then the EV market will die even quicker than it already is. EVs should be banned everywhere. Buyers have been told lies about EVs. They are not the future. ICE vehicles will be around for generations, especially diesel vehicles. Better to put diesel in vehicles instead of generators to charge EVs. What a waste of resources.
Yea right! Just try putting a blanket on a car in a PARKING STALL where there are cars on each side and a concrete wall almost touching the front bumper. 😂
A lot of this is just down to money. Older buildings may not have the structural integrity to handle an EV fire, or the weight of all those heavy vehicles. For water based fire suppression is the water supply good enough to handle the potential needs or will the building piping need replacing. The need to have more sprinklers fitted to get better coverage. The possibility of having to replace water based suppression with a foam based suppression.
The problem is the heat instability of Lithium-Ion. Nickel Metal Hydride Ni-MH batteries that Toyota sometimes uses doesn’t have these kinds of issues. Solid-state won’t either. These companies have invested in Lithium-Ion knowing full well of the instability. Until they use full NiMH or SS technology, no EV for us.
The failure to implement a "swap and go" battery system and not realising that EVs are a niche solution has doomed the project. I'll buy one... for parts. 😊
The video states that the fure suppression blankets only be used by qualified firefighters with proper PPE, and their use is only until first responders arrive. So, who are these people who are utilizing the fire suppression blankets?
Thanks for another very informative piece. Just one query. You stated that those fire blankets are in a wall box and have a key that only firefighters would have, but then recommend that the public shouldn’t be attempting to deploy such a thing as they’re only intended to keep the ev fire as isolated as possible until first responders arrive ~ but if the public can’t access it anyway as they don’t have the special key, then the only folk who can are those self-same first responders?
You know it's a real problem when State Farm pulls the plug.
Good play on words. 🎉
Pun Plug intended 😉
When you're paying for problems, then everything becomes a problem.
Geico pulled the plug on Cybertrucks.
@@lisashiela9137 Only real problems.
Their internal data must be telling them something...
There is some data that has come out from South Korean insurance companies in the last few days, showing EVs are slightly more likely to catch fire than an IC car, plus the obvious much higher cost to the insurance companies when they do.
@@isaac827Slightly?!!!
@@stevenmark8156 It is only slightly more likely, but frequency of the fires is not the only concern, given that the majority of the EVs that are catching fire are almost new, and the additional damage caused by an EV fire, the increase in risk is significant from my perspective.
Money talks Bull walks. They can hide data for so long but when it hurts the bottom line action is taken.
This has been coming for years. Another problem that will get more evident is range degradation as batteries age. EV cars are disposable devices, after a couple of years regular use they're done.
State Farm is definitely making the right move. And, yes, it will impact EV adoption. (Thank God!!)
Jake at State Farm has spoken!
We DON'T need EV adoption or expansion!
Nothing burger. EV sales still rising every year.
Thank you for your videos.i now no longer leave things charging unattended and overnight.
Good point. No charging tablets, phones and even rechargeable shavers.
Same.
Definitely a good idea ,I've been doing it for years now at the shop.
No car batteries or tool batteries left on charge unattended.
And hopefully I won't become blind to the sign on the exit door , shut off chargers and compressor.
(The pressure valve acted up once and the compressor ran for about 22hrs straight, the room was like 120 degrees and when I shut it off ,the white label on the motor turned brown.
Figured it shorted but that was like 12yrs ago.
Yep the sign has been working for me so far
As a tow truck driver, EV to ICE breakdowns are starting to get concerning. We get about 4 - 6 EV breakdown calls to 40 - 50 ICE calls a week right now, it was about 0 - 1 EVs a month like a year ago. Our ICE calls have stayed the same, but EV calls are starting to climb rapidly, and they only have what, 7% market share right now?. We are now getting about 1 EV fire (or battery gas offing) call a month, i'd say ICE fire calls have stayed the same at about 6 a month. Still the number one reason for ICE fires is maintenance and people not taking care of their cars, where as EV fires are always something to do with the battery or while it's charging at home or at a public charger. Because we are within a large city, the tow company i work for is getting a custom tub trailer to haul burnt up EVs so if they reignite, it won't damage the tow truck, because yeah, we've already had the joys of getting to experience that once.
The United States has 300M registered vehicles, and 3M of those are plug-in vehicles. That's 1%.
Add to this the vast majority of these evs are still fairly new cars. What's going to happen when they are 10 to 12 years old.
I've been running an ebike for years, cos they're perfect for my commute & errands. Apart from fire risk, 2 big problems are: the batteries degrade quick, after 2 years your range is nearly halved, plus they hate the cold. Again, your range is halved below freezing. I only use Bosch cos the QC is excellent, new batteries are £500 & easily switched. With a car that's not the case, battery changes cost tens of thousands. Economically it works out for me, as other costs compared to car/motorcycle are minimal (no road tax, insurance, parking fees, etc.). But I wouldn't dream of buying a battery powered car, it has all the disadvantages of an ebike with none of the advantages.
It is a major move for State Farm which I agree with; other insurers will follow. Building something that can spontaneously ignite is insanity.
I think you're also forgetting that a gas-powered vehicle can also spontaneously combust. Especially when you're not too sure of the condition of your own vehicle. You don't know if you suddenly develop a gas leak or an oil leak and it leaks onto an electrical component sparking engine fire. Unfortunately there are no published studies about how often that happens but if you're a firefighter you'd know it definitely does especially during the winter. That also accounts for a good portion of all the garage fires in this country not to mention the fires that happened in parking structures. So blaming EVS for some fires is inherently stupid! Also keep into account that there are other fueled vehicles on the road light diesel or propane that also have had fires and are also dangerous in their own right! By no means am I saying that EVS are perfect, however I am saying that you have to take into account all information about all vehicles before you make an assumption that EVS are the devil
One day when we cure spontaneous ignition of things we won’t need so many fire stations.
@richardeisenmenger2678 You’re using an argument based on emotions and hypotheticals from a position of ignorance. In reality, spontaneous fires in ICE vehicles are substantially less common, but even more importantly they are SUBSTANTIALLY less destructive, as the fire moves far slower than an EV battery fire. In reality, gasoline tanks are sealed and it takes a serious fire going for a good while to compromise them. EV battery fires can go from no sign of fire to full blown conflagration in ten seconds, and are WAY WAY WAY harder to put out. Educate yourself on the subject, stop speaking out of ignorance.
@@PTANV-x2g - this channel has a video comparing a real fire in EV vs IC, I recommend viewing it to all who are commenting here.
There is no "need" to expand EV adoption.
dump it. The hybrids were great.....If you want real electric cars, go for the water or the air utilization. It is doable. The lithium batteries are NOT providing an electric car. It is a battery operated car and it takes a heck of a lot of them.......enough to create a huge fire ! when they get wet.......it gets worse.
Electric vehicles are a non-solution to a non-existent problem.
Car insurance is going up because we are all paying for the damage/ cost of EV fires 😢
Who pays for the pavement repairs? Our Taxes? Double whammy
During a collision, they catch fire and explode. First responders cannot get to the victims. It burns too hot and too fast. People die who would normally get saved. They also burn in their garages while charging......and they burn the house where the garage is. Time to make separate garages again? Plus, it is not easy to find a place to fix them or work on them. Their facilities are isolated.....and no one wants to touch these cars. They don't know how. WE also have seen some that drive out of control and will not stop.....What the Hell ? The driver is a victim, no longer a "driver"......He paid too much for that car that is providing extra cremation. Killing 2 birds with one stone ? Bah.......
I’m not sure if it’s just from the fires or having to total them after a crash due to high repair costs and lack of parts.
The vast majority of charging stations are NOT on public roads, so the property owner's insurance would pay for that.
@@linanicolia1363this happens so much, in my town 12 times in the last week, its heart breaking walking around all the bodies.
Insurance companies should stop offering policies for the toxic portable bombs 🔥
So you're saying they should stop ensuring gas vehicles??
😅
EV.... YOU'RE FIRED!!!!!
And FRIED!
On one of our complex properties, the insurance carrier declined renewal unless we prohibited EV charging in the enclosed garages. The other option was to go with a new carrier that allowed it, for an extra 160k per year. The next step is them denying EVs in the garages altogether, charging or not. It's coming...
I can’t wait for EVs to be banned from parking inside or underneath all structures. I no longer park in parking garages due to the risk some EV will park next to me and self destruct. Makes a lot of things very inconvenient for me!
@@PTANV-x2g - Agreed. My car is old and cheap but the inconvenience of losing it makes me unwilling to risk it.
Thanks.
I believe State Farm is correct!
Placing these charging stations near building exits is criminal! And totally insane.
Thanks for your video.
An insurance company removing EV charging infra.
If only they had the necessary data to make an informed decision, oh wait
they have, you better be sure of that.
Maybe they have these employees called Actuaries, who study actual losses.
Rather than the Teslites cry of “ICE fires are 100x more common than EV fires”.
Big story. Nice job covering it.
Glad you enjoyed it
@@StacheDTraining Maybe you could do a video on the different Fire blankets. Some are $250, some are $5000 they look similar.
@@thereissomecoolstuff I'd love to do head to head product testing when or if I get enough funds.
@@StacheDTraining looking forward to it. Seems they treat them as disposable. Keep up the good work.
If I had a parking garage, I would not want EV's parking in garage. I have seen too many fires on you tube and other places.
Our local hospital has chargers inside the parking garage right at the main door to the hospital.and the garage elevator. All EVs should be placed on hold until we have a better power source for the electric motors.
Like…?
@@ericnewton5720 like a better battery chemistry that's not prone to thermal runaway. He's not saying he knows what they should use.
We have a better power source.. it’s called gasoline.
@@PTANV-x2gwhat’s wrong with wood? Renewable too?
@edc1569 Aside from having a tiny fraction of the energy density of gasoline, there is also no practical way to use it as a motor vehicle fuel, whether you care about practicality or not. Do you really want to go back to steam powered cars that go 12mph and require someone constantly tending to a fireplace just to keep your car going down the road slightly faster than walking pace?
1) Yes they made the right move; 2) Yes it will slow EV adoption.
not fast enough.
Ive been "recharging" my 2006 Toyota at the Shell station for 19 years, easy-peazy, no fires, no explosions, no drama, no loss of range, my gas tank never wore out, recharges in 55 seconds, it's a beautiful thing. Don't mess with it 😉
Keep it simple stupid.
Yeah my fireplace still works too, do what?
You’re careful to fill only 80% full, though right? 😂
As a shell stock holder for the past 20 years I would like to thank you for all the money you paid me 😂
@@sirifail4499 😉yep
I am correct! 2 years ago I predicted that insurance companies would end EVs!
Until there is better answers to the safety questions, everyone should be careful with rapid EV adoption
I live on vancouver island and am concerned about an ev fire when traveling on the ferry. It's basically a floating 4 level parking garage carrying 370 cars and commercial trucks.
In Norway, ferry line Havila Kystruten has banned EV's.
@@kradius2169that much be challenging for business for them in Norway!
that's a fair concern. You have time to think about your action plan, your escape route, the location and condition of safety equipment on board and which areas may be smoked out by a fire.
@@YouzACoopa I've thought about that, and the life boat deck is where I'd be heading. All of the car decks are below and passenger decks above. Would get bad in a hurry.
@@kradius2169 You'll laugh at this then. BC is planning to use hybrid ferries starting in 2027 and "The company plans to operate these new vessels exclusively in battery-electric mode, using renewable BC Hydro electricity"
Good! We should be slowing EV progress. There is NO need for these dangerous vehicles in the market. There is only misguided interest by people who falsely believe they’re better for the environment.
If I owned a parking garage, or any kind of structure with multi-vehicle parking adjacent to it, I would absolutely PROHIBIT electric vehicles from parking in it. I feel like that’s coming at some point soon.
I have an auto shop and I don’t allow EVs to park within 100’ of the building, let alone inside it. I’ll never work on one, ever. We need more people to take these kinds of hard line stances to put a stop to this EV madness once and for all.
How long before State Farm refuses to insure homes with EV chargers in the garage?
a day or tow ? they probably have already.....
Not to long. Insurance companies don't wanna loose money to a loss
State Farm's new policy is self serving in two ways.
It reduces the exposure of their own assets, and it reduces their exposure by discouraging others from driving BEVs.
That is good business practice.
Increasing exposure to risk is what many government actors are doing. And corporations largely owned by retirement funds under the control of blackrock et al.
Liability assessment is their business, so if they are backing away, it indicates that some aspect of the greater picture doesn’t add up to a profitable venture, at this time. It’s still early days for EVs, lots to be learned, the Government needs to realize that their arbitrary timelines aren’t any help at all.
I have been saying for ten+ years that EVs were never going to be a viable replacement for fossil fuel vehicles, for a variety of reasons. This is nothing new, nor will EVs persevere. It won’t be too many more years before the bubble will pop completely and we’ll go back to more or less normal.
@ptanv-x2g I’m in total agreement, and I’d love to get back to normal, can’t happen fast enough for me either. The people pulling the strings are so sure this is all going to work out in the end, they won’t be swayed. Unless saner minds get in control, we are just going to have to let them discover it for themselves, that there carbon neutral world is a total fantasy.
The move-fast-and-break-things attitude has been a disaster.
China has the most EV charging stations for any country and they are making well over 1 million EV cars per years
Up to 3 years ago they reporting up to 3000 (three thousand) EV cars spontaneously catching fire while unattended
Since then they have NOT released any more annual data on EV fires, so you know its really gotten extremely bad and out of hand.
Using the current figures that the CCP admits to, a Chinese academic has recently calculated that if ALL cars in China were electric, then they could potentially be looking at 42,900 ev fires. PER DAY.
Oh and don’t forget electric scooters and bikes. The number of electric bike fires alone in China in the first half of 2022? 8,370!
Then consider the disaster-level potential that a really major solar event could cause. The sort of high-energy discharge from the sun that overwhelms the planet’s usual natural defences and causes things like power cables to arc. Were the Carrington Event of 1859 to happen today, the results could well be catastrophic. Back then the geomagnetic storm knocked out the telegraph network in Europe and North America, giving electric shocks to telegraph operators and causing telegraph pylons to throw sparks. In today’s world that relies on electricity? Hardly bears thinking about.
State Farm is being a good neighbor.
Their first move to end insurance for those that have the chargers. They can't deny insurance if they themselves have the devices....🙂
At some point EVs will not be allowed in any indoor space. That point will come after one or more great tragedies have taken place.
I have never seen gas station in underground parking.
But I have seen many EV chargers in underground parking of Malls, Office premises and worst of all apartment complexes sometime right next to stairs and elevators!!!
Just say NO to EV.
At least until they don't burn up.
@@samuelkeystone We are at the physical limits of technology for batteries, and have been for a few decades now. It'll be longer than the lifespan of anyone alive right now before the next gen tech comes about for batteries...if we haven't hit the physical limits. It's safe to say that not using EV is the right answer with regard to that problem.
As a hybrid car owner, “don’t throw the baby out with the bath water” . The issue can be fixed with safer batteries. Those do exist.
@AdrianFahrenheitTepes But they refuse to use them. Those aren't as profitable and everyone invested in what's already being pushed will lose money. Politicians don't like losing their personal money
What about hybrids, please panic about them too, their batteries are even more stressed.
I wonder if SF will stop insuring homes with EV chargers in garages?
Yes, I think they are right, even outdoor gas stations have safety provisions, and nobody fuels cars in parking garages.
I have a battery powered drill and lawn equipment, and I don’t even leave them charge overnight.
We will never fully convert to electric, just not feasible on many fronts.
EV chargers attract EVs, why on earth would you want that? Insurance companies crunch numbers for a living. This is absolutely damning. Electric insanity must end.
Actuaries know the risks. And the losses.
EV adoption is already falling. It doesn't need any help. 😂
Teslas numbers today show more growth?
Many Parking garage operators put EV charges near stairs and worse. Because many treat like Mix of Handicap spaces and Benefit to assign easy parking for EV users/owners. Many even put EV chargers next to Handicap spaces that are "regulated" under ADA and many Building Codes.
I'm not interested in EV adoption. It is completely unsuitable for my needs. That said, State Farm has made the right decision in protecting their operational needs, and the personnel in the buildings
Here's a question: If State Farm is not allowing EV charging in their parking garages, why would they insure businesses or homeowners who have EV charging going on in their garages?
It’s difficult to cancel homeowners insurance. They will need a while to get things in place. I predict there will be careful consideration (may have already been decided) of dropping anyone with a home charger and making them park their cars outside.
Thanks for the update and warning ⚠️
Instead of "OR", use "AND".
Yes, State Farm is doing the right thing.
AND
Yes, actions like this will retard EV adoption. Perception more effective than stats - this is scary stuff.
State Farm spent money to install chargers, now will spend money to uninstall. Policy holders will pay.
Risk avoidance is the cheapest, most effective means of risk management. Since there really is no return that outweighs the risk of keeping them, they can't make a case for it. That's why they're doing it.
If A fire blanket is available, it should be accessible to all in an emergency. Like Defibrillators are for a health emergency. Placing a fire blanket is actually quite simple if you see some U tube and company examples. Waiting for responders may not be expedient besides, they should have a blanket with them..
A fire blanket would not be enough. They burn hot and furious.....the blanket would just get blown off the fire. My guess.
Good advice, except for the Hydrogen Fluoride part.
Your responsibility is not to do the emergency responders' work. It's to not give emergency responders more work having to save you. Your safety is your priority.
Absolutely right move.
Thank you for this video, my company is about to install chargers near a primary building in our test facility. This is a timely video. Insurance companies study the numbers and know the risks, there is something to this move on their part.
Good points,, no gas stations in the basements
they are making the right move
They have the data.
Blankets, hoses, whatever there is, I don't give a damn; I'm getting the hell away from that burning EV.
whats needed is not a blanket in a box though this is good, whats needed i think is a somewhat heavy frame actually suspending a ready drop fire blanket with a gas station like pump emergency button or pull lever at somewhat of a safe distance of a already engulfed Ev, instead of it running away with the farm before the responders can get there. for all ev parking.
I worked at a company with a 6 level garage. They only put the chargers on 2-6. They also had fire suppression systems and ventilation systems. I think it’s hard to retrofit an older garage to have ev charging.
I'm shocked governments haven't given these manufacturers immunity clauses, just like the last mandates no one wanted..!
I can understand the insurance companies doing this. It’s a symptom of people not realizing they don’t need to be at 100% charge all the time like having a 100% full tank of gas.
So cars with already limited range will become even more limited vs. fossil fuel cars. Great! I can’t wait for the total collapse of the EV market :)
Huh. I thought it was a problem with LiIon batteries. The 80% crap turned out to be a crutch.
I think your comment said it all: Would you put a gasoline pump in a parking garage?
And if you did, would you place it next to an elevator shaft or stairwell?
Your analogy seems pretty straightforward to me....
It may slow EV adoption a little bit, not a bad thing as much less flammable batteries will soon be coming out. Your comment about the suppression system is spot on. Fires weaken concrete and warp rebar, 99.999% of parking ramps. Parking ramps are expensive. State Farm's move is limiting the exposure to liability for damage to the structure.
Note, they are just planning to move them elsewhere, not get rid of them.
Charging a 80+ KWh battery unattended in an enclosed space (usually conveniently located near entrances and exits) is ridiculous and always was.
Luckily mine is 79kwh.
I'm not a State Farm guy AT ALL, but for them to take this stand, their must be some serious risks involved...
Insurance companies need to refuse to insure EVs, as well as any property where EVs are kept or charged. Same for any place that manufactures EVs or EV batteries. EVs present an extreme risk to life and property, wherever they exist. Notice insurance companies canceling policies in Florida because of hurricanes and California because of wildfires and mudslides. EVs present a far greater risk than either of those things.
America, the nation where you are truly free, can say what you want, carry a pistol and rifle. Just don’t you dare own an EV. 🎉
@@edc1569 Pistols and rifles don't just go off by themselves. They don't have a mind (computer) of their own. They don't explode while just sitting there. They don't cause horrible accidents because they were trying to drive themselves. They don't require inhuman child labor to make. I have quite a few pistols and rifles, and I have no problem keeping them in my house. Years ago I considered the possibility of getting an ebike. Until I found out the truth. Now I would never even consider allowing one on my property. EVs are extremely dangerous in so many ways. You need to open your eyes and your mind and see the truth.
Tesla and SpaceX should work together.
Fly the EVs to Mars where they can charge without putting people in danger, then fly them back.
Everyone is slowly waking up to the fact that these chargers and EVs are not supposed to be in indoor settings. It is suicidal.
Good.
They obviously don’t want to pay for an insurance claim on their property.
Huh... State Farm who would have thought....
Given how EVs can catch fire I certainly wouldn't want one in my garage.
NO CHARGERS
EVs are Just a PILE of Batteries ready for SCRAP
Best move at current situation!
This move should give State Farm leverage with those they insure against installing charging stations.
Jake, at State Farm is no fool, he taught us to bundle and save money years ago. Now he is saving his co-workers' lives...
If you have an EV and charging station at home you better start looking for a new insurance company. I’d be looking for insurance companies putting a clause in their contract about fires started by charging an EV or even just having one on your property. Are parking restrictions for EVs coming soon. The fire that water can’t contain is going to present some special hazards that will require special consideration. Parking anywhere other than on the street or an open lot may become a problem soon. I certainly wouldn’t want one charging in my garage while I was sleeping. Outside and covered by one of those blankets would cut the risk somewhat. The first major fire resulting in significant loss of life is going to bring some changes very quickly.
To answer your question... Both. If you can't publicly deploy a technology safely, it shouldn't be deployed at all. We need to get this right. EV owners need to understand that safety measures aren't there to discriminate against EV owners, it's to protect their safety
the infographic implied 10 out of 80 EV fires started even when not charging .. if so, i am surprised they are still allowing EVs to park in those car parks
In a multi-story parking plaza, will suppressing the BEV fire using fire blanket increase risk of structural damage and caving in of the BEV into floors below🤔❤👍
It sounds absurd - "safety is in a way of innovation and adaption of UNSAFE vehicle"... what should we do, just accept lack of safety. Why can't we alternatively just reconsider pushing BEV adaption until suitable battery technology is found? Or forcing safety measure like mandatory sprinklers (and I know they won't fully extinguish the battery fire, but it prevents fire spreading to other cars and overall it safe the parking lot from collapsing, like in Luton) and stricter battery design requirements that would require isolating each cells so that thermal runaway from once cell does not blow whole battery (sure that will reduce power density, but it should be safety first)? What it is so important to adopt something that is clearly not safe?!
So the EV (Mr Jonny come lately) should force property owners to retrofit sprinklers into their garages? Thats horseshit
@@akshonclip No... they should have been there in the first place, BEVs just highlighted existing issue. Sprinklers should have always been "code" in all public buildings and all shared residences, it wasn't... because rich property developers have bribed government to relax the requirements so that they can make more profit.
So now, it is just good time to go back and put them in the code, retrofit to all the properties. It is in no way different from having fire exists and fire doors and banning of flammable construction materials. It should have been done before, but better later than never.
But BEVs should improve for sure. Problem is in principle the same - now rich BEV makers are putting pressure (and bribing) government not to introduce requirements to make their cars safe. And that is why it is so stupid that we have to buy unsafe cars and park them in unsafe parking.
Solution - both parking and cars needs to be made better and the only way to achieve it is to make it mandatory.
@@lp9280 who pays for your simpleton solution? You’re delusional.
really, what is the point ? it all sucks. Besides being dangerous, they are expensive. What happens to these batteries when they are no longer charging ? where do they bury them ? we have enough trouble with our re-cycling. You cannot recycle these things, anywhere safe. Now, investors are running to Blackrock and Vangard to buy stocks, as the world knows, they are about to dig mines full of lithium.....like in North-Carolina . Hmmm. Lithium is a wanted mineral......State Farm may just change that !
@@linanicolia1363 That is besides the point, here we talking about fire safety.
The heck with EV expansion; State Farm is definitely making the right move! EV buyers are oblivious to the dangers and all the drawbacks of owning one.
At 2:48, "the need to expand EV adoption"? What????? State Farm's action demonstrates the need to abandon EVs for the sake of personal safety and for the health of the planet!
If this company is aware of the dangers/risks with EVs and charging, and DIDN'T do anything about it, then they could be liable if a fatal fire broke out.
State Farm is in Insurance when did they get in to having Charging Station?
If State Farm starts with the parking garage at work will they next go with removing charges in garages at residents . Will State Farm try to get better regulations in placement of charges in parking lots too ? I think EV cars work will this rezolt in no longer Insuring EV vehicles totally ? Thank you for the good content. 😊
I think State farm is doing it out of caution. Because of the parking garages that I've seen in the Iowa City cedar rapids Coralville area the Eevee charges that that are installed there are near egresses. I think it was the mistaken idea that this would be convenient for the users. In which some of the departments in this area have had fires near the EV charging stations some of them have been because of the cars but none of them have been because of the chargers. These were rolled out so fast that people did not have the time to figure the safety aspects of the charging systems. That's my opinion anyway...
Some types of chargers have big assed lithium batteries inside. They trickle charge the batteries from the grid, the batteries charge the car. I work in a large soil remediation pit, and we had a failed charger placed on the property over night a few months ago. The had it placed in a steel roll off bin and buried in sand. It sat for a couple weeks or so before they removed the batteries from inside of it. There was a concern that the batteries could go banana sandwich for a while. The sand is meant to melt into glass and become an insulator in case they flame up, btw. There was 8 big lithium batteries inside, each about twice the size of the older equipment batteries and a guy was sent out to discharge them so they could be safely moved to be recycled. As it turns out, the issue was caused by a non certified charger adapter sold at Best Buy. The charging port on the car was also damaged. Have fun with that.
If any insurance company does this kind of thing, pay attention. They are not in the business of handling out cash for irresponsible behavior. They know stuff.
Like the “Farmers Insurance” guy says, “ . . . Seen a thing or two . . . .know a thing or two.”
"According to the Korea Insurance Development Institute, the number of fire and explosion incidents involving EVs has been higher than that of internal combustion engine vehicles over the past five years.
EVs had 0.93 incidents per 10,000 vehicles, while non-EVs had a lower rate of 0.90 incidents.
Moreover, the financial losses incurred in these incidents were significantly higher for EVs, with the average loss per incident tallied at 13 million won ($9,700), which is 1.9 times higher than the average of 6.9 million won for non-EVs."
It's both; they're doing the smart thing and it's hurting EV adoption.
STATE Farm's entirr existence depends on good risk assessment. I'd trust their judgement before others. Also, he assumes a "need" for more EVs. Try proving that claim. Even if true, we need SAFETY FIRST
we had this problem w with the hoverboard an certain models of computer laptops, whoever thought it was a great idea to put a scaled up version of a hoverboard into a car wasn't thinking straight. I'm totally against EVs for what they ultimately bring...
Impotence?
Insurance will stop ev adoption .
It's hard to ever argue against taking reasonable precautions but we should also be letting the data guide us. For now, it would also be better to exercise caution BEFORE installing chargers, etc. instead of after. Unfortunately, most AHJs just don't have all the guidance or answers that they need compared to how quickly things are changing.
The codes can't keep up with the technology.
If an insurance company is pulling the plug, then you know there is a known pattern and i thin in the end homes that have chargers in the garage will lose coverage also. Charge outside or at fast chargers will be your only option after insurance sets the rules.
If an insurance company, that has all the data to examine, decides to remove the chargers from their properties, the rest of the world should pay attention. They are in the business to be risk averse.
I wonder if the fire blanket boxes could be stock with a couple of basic ppe masks?
Need SCBA, requires lots of training, health physicals, close shave, etc. No way a random bystander would safely use it. Basic PPE masks do not stop poison gas, do not protect eyes. Safest action is run, run, run.
@@john_nip_nop well that answers that. Thanks
ha...ha...cute ; they should pile a bunch of these fake vaccines, on top of it. People are still getting the boosters. Unbelievable.
Best thing to do is close down all charging stations, then the EV market will die even quicker than it already is. EVs should be banned everywhere. Buyers have been told lies about EVs. They are not the future. ICE vehicles will be around for generations, especially diesel vehicles.
Better to put diesel in vehicles instead of generators to charge EVs. What a waste of resources.
First we ban the dangerous lithium batteries in your phone, then we can consider the EVs
@@edc1569 no problem with that.
What about covering at home level 2 chargers?
If your house coverage is with State Farm, you can expect they will not cover that either. Ask them !
Yea right! Just try putting a blanket on a car in a PARKING STALL where there are cars on each side and a concrete wall almost touching the front bumper. 😂
A lot of this is just down to money. Older buildings may not have the structural integrity to handle an EV fire, or the weight of all those heavy vehicles. For water based fire suppression is the water supply good enough to handle the potential needs or will the building piping need replacing. The need to have more sprinklers fitted to get better coverage. The possibility of having to replace water based suppression with a foam based suppression.
The problem is the heat instability of Lithium-Ion. Nickel Metal Hydride Ni-MH batteries that Toyota sometimes uses doesn’t have these kinds of issues. Solid-state won’t either.
These companies have invested in Lithium-Ion knowing full well of the instability. Until they use full NiMH or SS technology, no EV for us.
The failure to implement a "swap and go" battery system and not realising that EVs are a niche solution has doomed the project. I'll buy one... for parts. 😊
The video states that the fure suppression blankets only be used by qualified firefighters with proper PPE, and their use is only until first responders arrive. So, who are these people who are utilizing the fire suppression blankets?
Thanks for another very informative piece. Just one query. You stated that those fire blankets are in a wall box and have a key that only firefighters would have, but then recommend that the public shouldn’t be attempting to deploy such a thing as they’re only intended to keep the ev fire as isolated as possible until first responders arrive ~ but if the public can’t access it anyway as they don’t have the special key, then the only folk who can are those self-same first responders?
They have the info and they are acting on it. We all have to pay for this net zero madness.
Great Video!
Thanks!