The Slickdraw Gutshot roll I got from lighthouse chest after struggling HARD for flawless both weeks it was up lol. Seriously though, if you get that PLEASE try it. It is hilariously difficult to land a shot. Its like Kovacs for controller.
I have a corkscrew, accurized, rangefinder, eots with range MW. That's definitely my favorite for exalted truth. But I still prefer my smallbore, accurized, slideshot, rangefinder, smooth grip, stability MW rose though. I just like the mobility+6.25% sprint speed boost form the lightweight frame. That being said, I think that rose roll needs stability MW since having 57 stability with 70 range when with range MW is atrocious on controller.
The roll where I'm not ass with Hand cannons lol. I actually have nearly the exact same Rangefinder EotS roll that you have, instead of Smallbore I Chambered/extended. I can have up to 90 range or 81 stability, it's a great gun. I just struggle with Hand cannons.
Regarding hand cannons in general, they are in a tough spot but bungie will likely be reluctant to buff them a bit because their usage still remains very high but that's largely because so many players just love the aesthetic and fantasy of using handcannons
I only kept 2. There was a Rangefinder / Eye of the Storm roll that Saint gave away, so I kept that. Then I did one flawless card in freelance last week and kept 1 of the 2 adepts. I either could’ve kept Outlaw with either Repulsor Brace or Rampage for PvE reasons or a Rangefinder and Gutshot / Frenzy as an all-purpose fun roll. I decided on the Frenzy one, because I already have a nasty Bottom Dollar for PvE. I like it for what it is and I’ll keep it around for a while, but I can’t help feeling my RNG leaves a little to be desired even if it wasn’t _that_ bad for 1 attempt, especially since I _never_ do multiple cards per week.
The biggest issue I have with HCs RN is that you are either too close or too far. Either you have entered SMG range and you now loose due to TTK, or you are out in 30-35m and get out TTK by a pulse so it feels like you have to be in that 25m range exactly and just play super tight to cover at all times no matter what
Exactly, and that a no time/messenger can still two burst me while I’m in perfect range and hitting all headshots doesn’t help either. Their are just no penalty’s for pulses.
Problem is pulse flinch, pulses flinch too much and win at every range vs hc, even at close range a pulse is equally as effective to hipfire and swap to a lightweight shotty to clean up. Hc also need to be 2h1b if every gun is gonna OutTTK might aswell give back leniency to HC ttk remains the same but now you have somewhat of a forgiveness factor.
@@shen7118 150rpm and maintain their current range. 120 can be 1h2b they shoot so slow that they can still be killed easily. Or better yet gut pulses out of the meta nobody likes pulses and i used to play a lot of inaugral adress.
Honestly I feel like there's some PRIME balance opportunities in perks like Under Over. What if breaking an overshield with it granted a damage bonus?-- even if it was a short one, the premise of turning an overshield into a RISK is appealing. Vorpal could give melt targets under Restoration; Hakke Brach Armaments could give anti-flinch for popping barricades. D2 has a really wide sandbox-- I'd like to see the parts of it that get used less be re-tooled into counter-picks for the current bullshit.
I feel like 140 hand cannons feel great when your at the right range but most of the maps force you to be either slightly too far or slightly too close if you want to use cover, which you need to do with a hand cannon. Igneous hammer feels really good though. With my roll on a void subclass with ophidan aspect I can have 80 range with 85 stability and 82 handling which feels really good and can actually engage at the ranges you need to.
I've pretty much moved back to 120s when I'm using Hand Cannons. 140s feel good in their effective range, but with the map selection this season, you have to work for the gun much more than it works for you. If I'm just going to do chip damage and have the opponent get away, I might as well get a bigger chunk from a little more range. Double primary does feel great right now. Rangey Pulse or a Scout paired with a sidearm or SMG has you ready for basically every situation but a slide out shotgun blast near point blank. It's great.
Brilliant summary at the end. I'm finding HCs quite crunched by SMGs/Sidearms & Pulses + the healing/OS/barricade parts of the meta. It makes the crucible quite static & slow, because it's so risky to try and punish someone who's weak + and it's easy to leave someone 1 shot if they're just outside of your effective ttk distance.
My favorite roll on in this is my asscannon, a slickdraw gutshot 43 range roll (adept counterbalance takes down the range another 10). It serves as my training weapon in qp; after I play a few games with it and then switch to another HC, I don't miss haha
Really interesting points later in the video. I've been working through comp ranks trying to improve, and I've started to gravitate to 120hcs, bows, high impact pulses and autos or easy damage increases like target lock/emp rifts/etc. Here's my theory, I could be wrong. I think Bungie is trying to get out of the "ttk is god" mentality. Because optimal situations come up less now, and just a little extra health can completely change ttks (see adaptive pulse normally leaving people with 1 hp after 2 bursts). With that, the amount of follow up damage you can do becomes really important. A 140 3 tap may be optimal, but now on average you are needing a 4 or 5 tap, and so is everything else. Your engagement style and approach can change more now as people have more HP, damage, and DR manipulation. In some sense, plus 40 hp doesn't matter with a bow because it's doing 90 a shot either way, whether you have 2 extra hp or 42 hp, or an extra 10% DR, so burst damage has more forgiveness in these situations which may lead to conclusions like yours. Not saying it's good or bad, but duels are less "rhythmic" now. Because of all this, I think there is a painful shift in relearning old ways to duel and fight. A three tap on a 140 feels good, and it's been made less consistent. Not sure what to conclude from this, but just food for thought. Weapon performance is now highly dependent on things outside of the weapon itself (abilities, buffs, debuffs, cooldowns)
The issue comes in when the movement is allowed to be so fast and cover so abundant that when everything takes so much longer to kill you can't always finish the fight before they're just gonna push it back to neutral
I agree with your thoughts on hand cannons being in a weird place. They are optimal at midrange, but you rarely see people taking engagements in that range anymore unless they also have a hand cannon. They just feel so much worse than a pulse that can two burst you from the same range that a hand cannon need to the 4 tap.
Honestly what I found to be my favorite is killing wind/encore because I already feel consistent on hc, I'm also an aggro player so the 2-3 meters from rf don't matter as much as the strafe scaler from kw
Nothing exists in a vacuum. Big chunk damage has always been king. I remember playing on Exodus when the Orewing's Maul came out and was annihilated by a launcher to hand cannon swapper that season. I said "Well, that's a problem. That's the new meta." It too awhile, because people are loath to change, but that playstyle, along with bow, has bloomed into the meta now. So now, players are more willing to play cover and retreat rather than be cleaned up with a single headshot. True, that isn't always the case, but what the overshields have done is allow some people to stay in the fight longer and be extremely tanky, and Hunters have always had the Worm Husk and the Titans, one-eyed, to extend their time in combat. Yep, it is slower and forces you to use the overshields as well or be at a disadvantage, but this process of slowing down the pace began with the nerfing of the Quick scope playstyle years ago. I guess the moral of this story is, the player base is way better at the game now than seven years ago and has a larger ability kit to use.
As much as I’ve enjoyed 140s there’s no doubt they’re in a weird spot. You need to hit the 3 crit for the optimal TTK, as opposed to SMGs, Sidearms, Pulses providing more flinch with more forgiveness on body shots. Headseaker also takes most Pulses from A to S tier. I’ve been a 120 HC main since they were buffed and honestly competes better against pulses than any 140 could due to more forgiving TTK when flinched, provide a lotta flinch being a 120, and naturally having good range without needing range perks. Igneous also has surprisingly one of the highest HC AE stat which also helps.
Yeah if I use a hand cannon, it is either hawkmoon to take shots and build up a 1 shot, or igneous because of the range, flinch, and forgiveness. Handcannons need some love right now big time. Rose even being a light weight doesn’t give me justification to use it over pulses, smgs, or hand cannons
@@Volker_A4 Bottom dollar with eots and rf is up there you just need to spec into handling and stability and let rangefinder carry the range to around 37m.
I honestly agree with a lot of your HC comments. The only time I've had fun playing with a HC in the last year have either been using Ace and going on Memento Mori streaks with 90 damage shots or recently using my Ramping Igneous hammer with Mantle for those juicy 102 damage two taps. I like that other weapons are viable, I didn't personally enjoy the metas that seemed to focus almost solely on HCs as primaries but it has been a while since the HC metas were and I think its time to bring them back again.
I agree that 140 HCs are being outclassed simply by pulse rifles, thats due to the rampant healing/overshield meta rn. People are way to comfortable in the back of the map because theres not as much special ammo, shotguns dont hit far, and everyone heals like crazy
I have always thought balancing d2 around hand cannons makes for the most consistent metas. They can essentially do everything pretty well, so balancing around them allows for flexibility of playstyle.
I used sturm while farming trials to get rolls on this handcannon, got a bunch that weren't perfect rolls and went back to sturm for all the reasons you listed. I didn't get any with max range or rangefinder, so i just trashed them all because they really don't have enough with the current longer range meta we currently play in. 120's just do everything that 140's can't and sturm is just an almost unfair stat package with the catalyst
My Exalted Truth Adept has: Fluted Barrel, Accurized, Stability MW, Adept Range. Rangefinder, Eye of the Storm. Absolutely beautiful 73's in Range, Stability, and Handling. Its a dream to shoot, and super satisfying to my OCD brain to see those perfectly equal stats.
Rolled what I thought was a 4/5 as my best drop. Hammerforged, Accurized, Perfect Float, EotS, stability mw. Without rangefinder, you max at 80 range/34.~ meters with adept range which is good but not perfect. But the shine is when I am in that range you can't flinch this thing at all. Perfect float is actually a beast of a perk. It is very noticable when it's active and even in 3v3 it's active more than you'd think. Paired with suros synergy and some decent Res tiers and you have a ton of flinch resist.
Yeah as far as combating pulses even now after their recent general nerfs it's obvious 140s feel weak with them with the health/os & ability regens. I have an exalted truth w/ rangefinder & frenzy with a range mw that I havent taken for a spin yet. I feel like if I had more range on my roll for it, it could be the best vs this current meta of all available rolls.
Also the perfect float frenzy was a roll I came across early and was a very fun roll even though my roll just cant be used every map due to range limitations
Hand Cannons are not duelling weapons any more. That said, i have been using igneous with qd and celerity and having 0 issues in trials. Personally i love exalted truth. I run chambered compensator(for 100 recoil, i also have full bore on the same roll), accurized, rangefinder, encore(the other perk is eye of the storm) and a stability masterwork. I use adept range to bump my range a bit, and it feels amazing to use. Before you get jealous, i have 566 games of trials this season, with about 60% of them over the 2 weeks this gun was available.
I have two rolls I have hotswap and encore with accurized hammer forged with a range master work an I have a killing wind kill clip with repulser brace and 100 stability an I have rampage with encore on the first roll I listed I am so glad for the end of ur video because I have been struggling to find the best place or mode for it to shine because the way this week's trails map is Playing for me personally it's no times and multimach an I am not good enough with a hand cannon yet to be able to truly tell is it me an lack of skill is the reason I am struggling to put gun alot of engagements or is it forcing a gun into the wrong situations expecting an unachievable result because I love the way the gun feels an sounds I wish I got more adept rolls but I honestly like both I use one for my titan an one for my warlock but I don't know if I can't remember a time when hand cannons or shotguns were so unviable in games that you have to win if you're 5 wins with 2 left or you don't have a mercy game how do you not consider switching to a pulse I like my crafted disparity with eofts an headseaker with my adept judgement but I wish I was as interested in pvp when hand cannons had a more important role in the meta but I only recently say 3 seasons made flawless the thing that I focused on mostly an it's pretty much been abilities and pulses also because of the rose which is by far my favorite weapon period and I have rapid hit rangefinder with max possible range but it doesn't have the same kind of damage potential with as little time needed as simple and easy as a 2 burst of a pulse
I’ve been saying the reason for Pulse Rifle dominance is because of all the new healing abilities, Void 3.0 brought Barricade overshield and Solar 3.0 brought restoration (healing nades) They truly ruined the gunplay in this game, 1 on 1 gun fights aren’t even fun anymore because it doesn’t come down to who has the best centering or recoil control… it comes down to who has the corniest ability, who has a healing nade up their sleeve so they can hide and poke back once they’ve got more HP. Or who can shoulder charge the fastest after losing a 1v1 SMG/Sidearm dual. Pulse Rifle are a “safer” play style, they keep people far away, you’re less likely to get hit by an OP charged melee or grenade. That’s why people have adapted to this play style
your so right its tough right now to play HC at high level matchmaking. i have extended, accurized, shot swap, kill clip, reload MW, its like an allrounder sniper pair, shot swap negates any handling from extended barrel, reload MW helps round out stat for KC, range mod necessary. i really enjoy it atm its new for me, i have a perfect palindrome, timelost fate bringer and i have a crafted austringer with EOTS/RF so i didn't want a clone of something i already had. my perfect roll would be max range perfect float.
I did roll a ET with Fluted/Accurized/Rangefinder/Encore and I LOVE it. But it's so frustrating getting into firefights before it gets going and even when it does, I feel perpetually at a disadvantage. A lot of games I just get frustrated and just switch to Messenger/Disparity/Revision Zero. And run a sidearm or SMG. Just the meta isn't conducive to running a HC, which is crazy to me. I never thought I'd ever see that happen lol.
I farmed a long time for Rangefinder/Killclip but could not get it to drop. I did end up with a good Rangefinder/EotS, but I just don’t see a situation where I would use it over fully crafted Austringer.
this is what I miss about when hand cannons were "the meta" good weapons in other classes still felt like they competed. desperado messengers, battler, a good good pilot with the right exotic paid off. when handcannons were "king" of the crucible, the rest of the weapon meta felt much more balanced. but with this pulse/smg meta, everything feels significantly worse that those two options. smg's are top dog within their range, and as soon as they fall off pulses take over. it's made double primary a legitimate load out, too, and the balancing issue with such a loadout is that their is no effective range where the user doesn't have the best of the crucible at their finger tips. at least before when people were using X-primary with an opposite range special weapon, they had ranges that you could play in against them strategically, and then 140 hand cannons were there because they are the "all-rounder" weapon. they weren't the best at any range other than a very small 30m window, but they handled everything from 15-35m competently. sure, people were annoyed by "hand cannon / special weapon" dominance, but the reality is that the weapon sandbox at that time probably felt the most balanced it has. If the "best" archetype is such because it covers a balanced range without making other archetypes feel unusable in their effective ranges, and gives the user a jack-of-all-trades value, that's probably about as balanced as it can be. EDIT: also, I'm ok with 140 hand cannons being where they are. I think its a good spot. the problem with where they lie is the power level of other weapons at their effective ranges. I would rather bring smg's and pulses down than bring hand cannons up. also, 120 hc's need some of their range back. they also took their damage away since then. they should make them compete for range with top end 340 pulses.
Personally I find the weapon, * ahem *, WEAPON sandbox to be in a pretty good place, nothing feels to dominate imo, handcannons are finally in a place where they are far from unusable but not a must use option My go to aggressive build right now is actually handcannon plus SMG on icurus dash + heat rises warlock, and with the AE changes I actually feel confident taking to the air against a titan barricade But thats not to say the sandbox as a whole is in a good place, classic abilities even after the nerfs are really strong, idk how us Warlocks completely dodged getting our rift nerfed
I've always loved pulses more than HCs. Even with that bias I can admit it's a pulse rifle world and the rest of the weapons are just living in it. Either knock them down or push HCs and autos up. Then you'll have a diverse sandbox.
I have a roll with: Fluted Accurized RF EOTS Stability MW I also use an adept range mod. This makes my stats extremely well rounded with 73s in range, stability, and handling. Best dueling hand cannon I’ve ever used.
I think if smg range comes down a bit for some outliers as well as HC AE being buffed again (either through buffing base values or making it easier to get higher aim assist), I think things would be better. My biggest problem rn with hand cannons is that I feel helpless in the air with them when running any exotic outside of foetracer with the inflight compensator, I don't feel confident jumping in the air still to land crits (particularly with connections right now) which is not a good feeling when trying to create distance from smgs or trying to aggress on a pulse from the air before bursting you down. Idk it feels very strange right now in the meta in that it's being played in extremes, at least on PC for me. Either you get super hyper aggressive smg PK titans or people sitting in a lane with a pulse and either an smg or shotgun to deal with you up close, with no room for mid range. It's unfortunate but until we get a sandbox preview for Lightfall, I'm not optimistic about how pvp is gonna turn out with the grappling hook of strand exacerbating connection issues, melee lunges being a problem still, and the list goes on. I'm hyped for the PVE side next week but pvp is once again a wait and see and hope they hammer things down again.
I agree, the abundance of health manipulation abilities, tied with the homogenized outlook players have to choosing weapons (high range and or high burst) or stifling the weapon sandbox. Sidearms cant reliably find a space on mnk because smgs have better flinch and control; autos are, again, outclassed by smgs with ttk, but also every other weapon type wince their ease of use is far less than that of HCs and pulses; and scouts (outside of dmt) have an incredibly niche roll to fill, that it's simply not worth it.
I love the feeling of HCs. But Ive never loved Rangefinder on them. Used to be with the right positioning i could make a non rangefinder hc work. Now i feel forced to use the perk. Big sad. Awesome video CG.
I agree man, I’ve been using Ace and trying to stay radiant pretty much exclusively because of these issues. Other than that, it’s vigilance wing or Monte Carlo if I’m running Athrys’s.
I got a couple adepts. One roll is hammer forge, accurized rounds, killing wind and rampage handling masterwork. The other one is hammer forge, flared, outlaw and encore with reload master.
I thankfully got a KW EOTS roll and its a very comfy gun to run 6v6s with, I don't even have a adept range mod on it and its still up to 77 range with small bore and accurized and the added stats from KW make it really fun to get multi kills with. That being said, I only use it every once and a while for the same reasons you list here, hand canons are just something that can't compete with higher burst dps weapons right now
The best roles I've managed to get are a rangefinder/KC and a KW/Encore, neither are adept. I love both but when the KW/Encore starts rolling, its absolutely incredible. Maybe the best feeling HC I've used
I was able to get one with fluted, accurized, rangefinder, and repulser/encore. Great for pve and pvp. Range masterwork as well. With adept range, it's at 80 range, 66 stability, 73 handling. Feels incredible
@CoolGuy, Love the videos. I watch every one. I just got rangefinder, encore, accurized, hammerforged, ranged masterwork on the adept version and am so pumped. I am so excited cause I'm not very good at PVP and really wanted this one.
I have a non adept corkscrew accurized rangefinder/encore roll handling mw gives me 68 range/66 stab/ 70 handling warlock ophidians main. I play on console, and with the recent AE changes it’s tough to decide if it’s worth using this gun. Sacrificing a targeting mod with this HC aim assist for icarus is tough. Even Austringer with its lower AA doesn’t feel as bad. Especially when you are talking about range drop off issues. My slideshot/explosive rose HC has lower stability but as I try and close the gap, at least I may flinch them off. I have an adept palindrome with rangefinder, but it’s never “clicked” with me, may have to have a play test and see what I can pull off with that. Overall, I think with light fall an adept igneous hammer with elemental capacitor I have may be able to pull off some absurd things… have to see what energy hand cannon will be worth it.
I've hated pulse rifles from the start, mostly because of the last of us, of all primaries probably my least used in the 5ish years I've been playing but I picked one up again and man was did things get significantly easier. No more worrying about if I have the range to engage, no more worrying about that 3rd trigger pull, I can still peak shoot, it does more damage per pull than a hand cannon, it's easy street. I run hand cannons for fun, satisfaction, but that pulse is coming when I just want to win
8:35 - I get the point you're trying to make but if you had been literally 1 step further forward when you slide that corner (and there was room to be a step closer as you came around the centre object) you would've got the 3 tap. So sure, range is (and always has been) important on a Hand Cannon, but knowing your range and playing within that is equally if not more important. You said earlier in the video that you can create lanes with a Pulse Rifle, you can also force close range duels with SMGs and Sidearms, so if it's true for other primaries there's no reason you can't force engagements within Hand Cannon range too. I agree with everything else you said about them being in a bad spot because of second chance mechanics, but the range issue isn't actually a real issue, they now have a range they thrive in and aren't eating into Pulse (or even Scout like the old 120s used to) range.
I am not even close to your shadow in PVP and I play occasionally. I used to favor HCs but for a while I see they don't hit as hard as before so I switched to SMGs and Pulses. You explained a lot about the current state of the game so I am happy it is just the impression of a low level PVP player. I hope HCs will get some love soon from Bungie.
I lucked out with mine I got small bore accurized rounds rangefinder ether eye of the Strom or encode and has range master love it I don't need to play trails when it's the hand cannon I feel like I have the best roll keep up the great work on these reviews!!!
I had encore on the HC from prophecy that I really enjoyed but the stats just couldn’t keep up, I was so glad to get a rangefinder encore on this, so much fun
My hunter uses rangefinder eye of the storm that I can swap to rampage for pve, titan uses rangefinder frenzy/encore, and warlock uses perfect float eye of the storm. I love this hand cannon more than I ever liked palindrome it feels so much better
Personally have a full bore, accurized, rangefinder, frenzy with range MW with range mod. God damn 95 range hitting 38m feels sooo good. Then when frenzy proc you extend that range even more
I've gotten every roll I'd need except rangefinder eye of the storm. 1.Rangefinder kc 2. Adept outlaw rampage/eye of the storm 3. Outlaw repulser brace 4.rangerfinder encore 5. Perfect float rampage.
Look, for me, Fatebringer always just FEELS better, even if I get up to a similar stability on a different gun, Fatebringer always just feels like it doesn't recoil as much, it feels more consistent.
Not gonna lie CoolGuy, I'm keeping my eyes on Under-Over. If Woven Mail counts as an "overshield" effect just like void overshields, it would be really nice to have.
Maybe feeling required to squeeze out 100% range on everything isn't perfect but I do think that the general position of hand cannons might actually be ideal. HC is always op because they have the cleanest peek shot. When another weapon archetype has to balance with that, it's going to feel better in non peek shot scenarios especially non sweat ones. I don't think HC should have the cleanest peek shot and be just as good everywhere else.
SMGs pushing into HC territory is the reason why this is happening. Pulses have existed alongside HCs during HC metas for ages. So what do you think would cause HCs falling off the map now = SMG ranges of 25m+ It's too much. SMGs need to get back in their lane. They've almost completely invalidated autorifles and now HCs are dealing with the same oppressive range pushes. They definitely need to be sitting at a max of 22m imo.
Soo... First of all great vid. Regarding the final point about pulses, while I do think pulses are a bit too hot right now I don't think 140 hand cannons should be out dueling high impact pulses. If they were able to do that there would be no point to have 120s. Perhaps I am missing something here but that's my 2 cents.
I feel a pretty similar way about 140 hand cannons. They are really good, and they are quite fun seeing as they play very different from other weapons. But they arn’t as strong as everything else at all. At their lowest ranges, smgs beat the TTK by .2 of a second, which is a lot. At the higher ranges, pulses beat it by .2 also. Even with the best hand cannons (im an austringer user myself) everything beats them out. 180s are also complete garbage, some of the worst crucible weapons in the game, and 120s, while very fun, don’t have the range or TTK to deal with targets in their intended ranged either. Mostly people use them as cleanup weapons for sniper hotswap builds. More range would be nice, but i don’t think thats the correct fix for any of these hand cannons, other than 180s. On controller, a nice change to see would be raising the stability floor. In other words, lower stability doesn’t feel as bad as it does now, but higher stability still feels the same. Another great change to see all around is lowering aim assist bloom. I get in so many duels where the bloom effects my headshots, and i end up losing the engagement because i cant switch to another target and still have good aim assist. This is why things like eye of the storm feel so good (hence why i use austringer). They just are a little bit bad in every category. Not bad weapons, but lacking a tiny bit in so many places that they just don’t feel as good anymore. There are outliers (ace of spades still feels incredible even with the low stability), but very few perfect god roll 140 (not even including 180s and 120s) hand cannons hit the same mark of competitiveness that a god roll pulse rifle (of any archetype) do. Even 390 pulses are still better than hand cannons just because they have more range and more ease of use despite the obnoxiously high TTK. And pulse rifles still work fairly well in closer ranges whereas hand cannons have a very specific range where they work, and too close or too far (even just a little bit) makes them very difficult to use.
I'm tired of trying to use hand cannons. Been trying for years. My skill ceiling has been hit. I go for god rolls and then tell myself what's the point.. still shit even with the best roll. But I appreciate the insight.
I know it probably doesn't really help the overall viability of HCs, but if they're gonna be viable in a pulse/SMG/auto rifle (god forbid) meta I feel like they at least need to be a bit more lenient. 2 head 1 body, tbh. You're still gonna really need to engage at intended range, but if you're getting beamed by someone who's within your intended range, you should have some kind of fighting chance. Almost all other weapons that play in HC range have some kind of forgiveness to them, but 140s need three perfect crits. It just doesn't feel great.
I have a Rangefinder + Rampage/Frenzy. Not sure if I prefer Rampage or Frenzy more. But my initial reaction was more negative than I expected, in part because I feel like running a HC when the map rotation is so long range is setting myself up for failure.
Agree with the handcannon disadvantage with everyone sitting back with overshields and you can’t get close as a Hunter as Neutral game is crap across the board. Not buying a new pc so would love to hear your thoughts on the latter. For me warlocks and arc and void titans stupidly broken yet everyone hates on the invis Hunter failing to see why people turn to it. Calibans or stomps blink not bad options but for pure consistency which void warlock do you pick?
I've been having much the same experience with crucible lately, with the existence of easy second chance options and pulses being as dominant as they are if I use a handcannon I lean more towards damage perks (mainly frenzy) to keep them consistent.
Which roll on this fits you more?
The Slickdraw Gutshot roll I got from lighthouse chest after struggling HARD for flawless both weeks it was up lol. Seriously though, if you get that PLEASE try it. It is hilariously difficult to land a shot. Its like Kovacs for controller.
I have a corkscrew, accurized, rangefinder, eots with range MW. That's definitely my favorite for exalted truth. But I still prefer my smallbore, accurized, slideshot, rangefinder, smooth grip, stability MW rose though. I just like the mobility+6.25% sprint speed boost form the lightweight frame. That being said, I think that rose roll needs stability MW since having 57 stability with 70 range when with range MW is atrocious on controller.
The roll where I'm not ass with Hand cannons lol. I actually have nearly the exact same Rangefinder EotS roll that you have, instead of Smallbore I Chambered/extended. I can have up to 90 range or 81 stability, it's a great gun. I just struggle with Hand cannons.
Regarding hand cannons in general, they are in a tough spot but bungie will likely be reluctant to buff them a bit because their usage still remains very high but that's largely because so many players just love the aesthetic and fantasy of using handcannons
I only kept 2. There was a Rangefinder / Eye of the Storm roll that Saint gave away, so I kept that.
Then I did one flawless card in freelance last week and kept 1 of the 2 adepts. I either could’ve kept Outlaw with either Repulsor Brace or Rampage for PvE reasons or a Rangefinder and Gutshot / Frenzy as an all-purpose fun roll. I decided on the Frenzy one, because I already have a nasty Bottom Dollar for PvE.
I like it for what it is and I’ll keep it around for a while, but I can’t help feeling my RNG leaves a little to be desired even if it wasn’t _that_ bad for 1 attempt, especially since I _never_ do multiple cards per week.
The biggest issue I have with HCs RN is that you are either too close or too far. Either you have entered SMG range and you now loose due to TTK, or you are out in 30-35m and get out TTK by a pulse so it feels like you have to be in that 25m range exactly and just play super tight to cover at all times no matter what
Exactly, and that a no time/messenger can still two burst me while I’m in perfect range and hitting all headshots doesn’t help either. Their are just no penalty’s for pulses.
Problem is pulse flinch, pulses flinch too much and win at every range vs hc, even at close range a pulse is equally as effective to hipfire and swap to a lightweight shotty to clean up.
Hc also need to be 2h1b if every gun is gonna OutTTK might aswell give back leniency to HC ttk remains the same but now you have somewhat of a forgiveness factor.
30-35m is handcannon range with a decent roll.
@@fotis3v480 Can't see 140s being 2h1b when 120s already do that, cant really see anything bungie could do to 140s to make them more interesting
@@shen7118 150rpm and maintain their current range.
120 can be 1h2b they shoot so slow that they can still be killed easily.
Or better yet gut pulses out of the meta nobody likes pulses and i used to play a lot of inaugral adress.
Honestly I feel like there's some PRIME balance opportunities in perks like Under Over. What if breaking an overshield with it granted a damage bonus?-- even if it was a short one, the premise of turning an overshield into a RISK is appealing. Vorpal could give melt targets under Restoration; Hakke Brach Armaments could give anti-flinch for popping barricades. D2 has a really wide sandbox-- I'd like to see the parts of it that get used less be re-tooled into counter-picks for the current bullshit.
I feel like 140 hand cannons feel great when your at the right range but most of the maps force you to be either slightly too far or slightly too close if you want to use cover, which you need to do with a hand cannon. Igneous hammer feels really good though. With my roll on a void subclass with ophidan aspect I can have 80 range with 85 stability and 82 handling which feels really good and can actually engage at the ranges you need to.
That thumbnail is god-tier!
JASON! Yoooo hope you’ve been well bro
Fact!
Lol loved your D1 videos, also turned me into a first curse user
I've pretty much moved back to 120s when I'm using Hand Cannons. 140s feel good in their effective range, but with the map selection this season, you have to work for the gun much more than it works for you. If I'm just going to do chip damage and have the opponent get away, I might as well get a bigger chunk from a little more range.
Double primary does feel great right now. Rangey Pulse or a Scout paired with a sidearm or SMG has you ready for basically every situation but a slide out shotgun blast near point blank. It's great.
Brilliant summary at the end. I'm finding HCs quite crunched by SMGs/Sidearms & Pulses + the healing/OS/barricade parts of the meta. It makes the crucible quite static & slow, because it's so risky to try and punish someone who's weak + and it's easy to leave someone 1 shot if they're just outside of your effective ttk distance.
My favorite roll on in this is my asscannon, a slickdraw gutshot 43 range roll (adept counterbalance takes down the range another 10). It serves as my training weapon in qp; after I play a few games with it and then switch to another HC, I don't miss haha
Really interesting points later in the video.
I've been working through comp ranks trying to improve, and I've started to gravitate to 120hcs, bows, high impact pulses and autos or easy damage increases like target lock/emp rifts/etc. Here's my theory, I could be wrong. I think Bungie is trying to get out of the "ttk is god" mentality. Because optimal situations come up less now, and just a little extra health can completely change ttks (see adaptive pulse normally leaving people with 1 hp after 2 bursts). With that, the amount of follow up damage you can do becomes really important. A 140 3 tap may be optimal, but now on average you are needing a 4 or 5 tap, and so is everything else. Your engagement style and approach can change more now as people have more HP, damage, and DR manipulation. In some sense, plus 40 hp doesn't matter with a bow because it's doing 90 a shot either way, whether you have 2 extra hp or 42 hp, or an extra 10% DR, so burst damage has more forgiveness in these situations which may lead to conclusions like yours. Not saying it's good or bad, but duels are less "rhythmic" now.
Because of all this, I think there is a painful shift in relearning old ways to duel and fight. A three tap on a 140 feels good, and it's been made less consistent. Not sure what to conclude from this, but just food for thought. Weapon performance is now highly dependent on things outside of the weapon itself (abilities, buffs, debuffs, cooldowns)
The issue comes in when the movement is allowed to be so fast and cover so abundant that when everything takes so much longer to kill you can't always finish the fight before they're just gonna push it back to neutral
@@AutistiCat2406 fair statement but i don’t think movement should be at fault for it
Rangefinder encore made me fall in love with this hand cannon. The origin trait makes it even better. Top 3 hc for sure
I agree with your thoughts on hand cannons being in a weird place. They are optimal at midrange, but you rarely see people taking engagements in that range anymore unless they also have a hand cannon. They just feel so much worse than a pulse that can two burst you from the same range that a hand cannon need to the 4 tap.
Honestly what I found to be my favorite is killing wind/encore because I already feel consistent on hc, I'm also an aggro player so the 2-3 meters from rf don't matter as much as the strafe scaler from kw
my fav too
You shot me up @ 2:54! Yulaw. You were smacking us that game! Love your content! Keep it up!
Nothing exists in a vacuum. Big chunk damage has always been king. I remember playing on Exodus when the Orewing's Maul came out and was annihilated by a launcher to hand cannon swapper that season. I said "Well, that's a problem. That's the new meta." It too awhile, because people are loath to change, but that playstyle, along with bow, has bloomed into the meta now. So now, players are more willing to play cover and retreat rather than be cleaned up with a single headshot. True, that isn't always the case, but what the overshields have done is allow some people to stay in the fight longer and be extremely tanky, and Hunters have always had the Worm Husk and the Titans, one-eyed, to extend their time in combat. Yep, it is slower and forces you to use the overshields as well or be at a disadvantage, but this process of slowing down the pace began with the nerfing of the Quick scope playstyle years ago. I guess the moral of this story is, the player base is way better at the game now than seven years ago and has a larger ability kit to use.
As much as I’ve enjoyed 140s there’s no doubt they’re in a weird spot. You need to hit the 3 crit for the optimal TTK, as opposed to SMGs, Sidearms, Pulses providing more flinch with more forgiveness on body shots. Headseaker also takes most Pulses from A to S tier. I’ve been a 120 HC main since they were buffed and honestly competes better against pulses than any 140 could due to more forgiving TTK when flinched, provide a lotta flinch being a 120, and naturally having good range without needing range perks. Igneous also has surprisingly one of the highest HC AE stat which also helps.
Yeah if I use a hand cannon, it is either hawkmoon to take shots and build up a 1 shot, or igneous because of the range, flinch, and forgiveness. Handcannons need some love right now big time. Rose even being a light weight doesn’t give me justification to use it over pulses, smgs, or hand cannons
Or other handcannons^
it's rediculous that igneous is the only top performing 120 and they took it out.
@@Volker_A4 Bottom dollar with eots and rf is up there you just need to spec into handling and stability and let rangefinder carry the range to around 37m.
Like.... Idk what builds are yall using, but with 100 resilience (which is free on warlock and titan) flinch just doesnt exist
I honestly agree with a lot of your HC comments. The only time I've had fun playing with a HC in the last year have either been using Ace and going on Memento Mori streaks with 90 damage shots or recently using my Ramping Igneous hammer with Mantle for those juicy 102 damage two taps. I like that other weapons are viable, I didn't personally enjoy the metas that seemed to focus almost solely on HCs as primaries but it has been a while since the HC metas were and I think its time to bring them back again.
I agree that 140 HCs are being outclassed simply by pulse rifles, thats due to the rampant healing/overshield meta rn. People are way to comfortable in the back of the map because theres not as much special ammo, shotguns dont hit far, and everyone heals like crazy
I have always thought balancing d2 around hand cannons makes for the most consistent metas. They can essentially do everything pretty well, so balancing around them allows for flexibility of playstyle.
I used sturm while farming trials to get rolls on this handcannon, got a bunch that weren't perfect rolls and went back to sturm for all the reasons you listed. I didn't get any with max range or rangefinder, so i just trashed them all because they really don't have enough with the current longer range meta we currently play in. 120's just do everything that 140's can't and sturm is just an almost unfair stat package with the catalyst
My Exalted Truth Adept has: Fluted Barrel, Accurized, Stability MW, Adept Range. Rangefinder, Eye of the Storm.
Absolutely beautiful 73's in Range, Stability, and Handling. Its a dream to shoot, and super satisfying to my OCD brain to see those perfectly equal stats.
Too bad you can never get kill clip on it again.... they replaced it😢
Rolled what I thought was a 4/5 as my best drop. Hammerforged, Accurized, Perfect Float, EotS, stability mw. Without rangefinder, you max at 80 range/34.~ meters with adept range which is good but not perfect. But the shine is when I am in that range you can't flinch this thing at all. Perfect float is actually a beast of a perk. It is very noticable when it's active and even in 3v3 it's active more than you'd think. Paired with suros synergy and some decent Res tiers and you have a ton of flinch resist.
Yeah as far as combating pulses even now after their recent general nerfs it's obvious 140s feel weak with them with the health/os & ability regens. I have an exalted truth w/ rangefinder & frenzy with a range mw that I havent taken for a spin yet. I feel like if I had more range on my roll for it, it could be the best vs this current meta of all available rolls.
Also the perfect float frenzy was a roll I came across early and was a very fun roll even though my roll just cant be used every map due to range limitations
Hand Cannons are not duelling weapons any more. That said, i have been using igneous with qd and celerity and having 0 issues in trials. Personally i love exalted truth. I run chambered compensator(for 100 recoil, i also have full bore on the same roll), accurized, rangefinder, encore(the other perk is eye of the storm) and a stability masterwork. I use adept range to bump my range a bit, and it feels amazing to use. Before you get jealous, i have 566 games of trials this season, with about 60% of them over the 2 weeks this gun was available.
Agree on the HC range, which is why kill clip becomes a top perk for them
I have two rolls I have hotswap and encore with accurized hammer forged with a range master work an I have a killing wind kill clip with repulser brace and 100 stability an I have rampage with encore on the first roll I listed I am so glad for the end of ur video because I have been struggling to find the best place or mode for it to shine because the way this week's trails map is Playing for me personally it's no times and multimach an I am not good enough with a hand cannon yet to be able to truly tell is it me an lack of skill is the reason I am struggling to put gun alot of engagements or is it forcing a gun into the wrong situations expecting an unachievable result because I love the way the gun feels an sounds I wish I got more adept rolls but I honestly like both I use one for my titan an one for my warlock but I don't know if I can't remember a time when hand cannons or shotguns were so unviable in games that you have to win if you're 5 wins with 2 left or you don't have a mercy game how do you not consider switching to a pulse I like my crafted disparity with eofts an headseaker with my adept judgement but I wish I was as interested in pvp when hand cannons had a more important role in the meta but I only recently say 3 seasons made flawless the thing that I focused on mostly an it's pretty much been abilities and pulses also because of the rose which is by far my favorite weapon period and I have rapid hit rangefinder with max possible range but it doesn't have the same kind of damage potential with as little time needed as simple and easy as a 2 burst of a pulse
I’ve been saying the reason for Pulse Rifle dominance is because of all the new healing abilities, Void 3.0 brought Barricade overshield and Solar 3.0 brought restoration (healing nades) They truly ruined the gunplay in this game, 1 on 1 gun fights aren’t even fun anymore because it doesn’t come down to who has the best centering or recoil control… it comes down to who has the corniest ability, who has a healing nade up their sleeve so they can hide and poke back once they’ve got more HP. Or who can shoulder charge the fastest after losing a 1v1 SMG/Sidearm dual. Pulse Rifle are a “safer” play style, they keep people far away, you’re less likely to get hit by an OP charged melee or grenade. That’s why people have adapted to this play style
your so right its tough right now to play HC at high level matchmaking. i have extended, accurized, shot swap, kill clip, reload MW, its like an allrounder sniper pair, shot swap negates any handling from extended barrel, reload MW helps round out stat for KC, range mod necessary. i really enjoy it atm its new for me, i have a perfect palindrome, timelost fate bringer and i have a crafted austringer with EOTS/RF so i didn't want a clone of something i already had. my perfect roll would be max range perfect float.
I did roll a ET with Fluted/Accurized/Rangefinder/Encore and I LOVE it. But it's so frustrating getting into firefights before it gets going and even when it does, I feel perpetually at a disadvantage. A lot of games I just get frustrated and just switch to Messenger/Disparity/Revision Zero. And run a sidearm or SMG. Just the meta isn't conducive to running a HC, which is crazy to me. I never thought I'd ever see that happen lol.
Played with you this weekend! Assumed you were getting clips for this video. Always nice seeing you in the qp lobbies
I farmed a long time for Rangefinder/Killclip but could not get it to drop. I did end up with a good Rangefinder/EotS, but I just don’t see a situation where I would use it over fully crafted Austringer.
You don't see a situation where you'd use an energy handcannon over a kinetic one? Not a single one lol?
@@st0nedpenguin In what situation would you use an energy hc over kinetic? *BESIDES* wanting to use that energy HC, enlighten us please🤔🤔🤔
@@v-7815 ...because I'm using a kinetic or stasis special? This isn't rocket science.
@@st0nedpenguin Did you know that there are also energy special weapons!? 😱😱
@@v-7815 Think that question through again and you'll hopefully see just how stupid it was.
this is what I miss about when hand cannons were "the meta"
good weapons in other classes still felt like they competed. desperado messengers, battler, a good good pilot with the right exotic paid off. when handcannons were "king" of the crucible, the rest of the weapon meta felt much more balanced. but with this pulse/smg meta, everything feels significantly worse that those two options. smg's are top dog within their range, and as soon as they fall off pulses take over. it's made double primary a legitimate load out, too, and the balancing issue with such a loadout is that their is no effective range where the user doesn't have the best of the crucible at their finger tips. at least before when people were using X-primary with an opposite range special weapon, they had ranges that you could play in against them strategically, and then 140 hand cannons were there because they are the "all-rounder" weapon. they weren't the best at any range other than a very small 30m window, but they handled everything from 15-35m competently. sure, people were annoyed by "hand cannon / special weapon" dominance, but the reality is that the weapon sandbox at that time probably felt the most balanced it has.
If the "best" archetype is such because it covers a balanced range without making other archetypes feel unusable in their effective ranges, and gives the user a jack-of-all-trades value, that's probably about as balanced as it can be.
EDIT: also, I'm ok with 140 hand cannons being where they are. I think its a good spot. the problem with where they lie is the power level of other weapons at their effective ranges. I would rather bring smg's and pulses down than bring hand cannons up. also, 120 hc's need some of their range back. they also took their damage away since then. they should make them compete for range with top end 340 pulses.
7:19 “Even Asylum!” You taking Exalted Truth back to D1? 😅
Perfect float frenzy is the best roll. You can run max stability (close to 100) and the extra damage from perfect float frenzy gives you max range.
I wish I had an adept version of this. I have a Rangefinder Encore, sadly on 60 range, 73 stability but it feels incredible.
Thanks for the video. Always love your breakdowns. I've been using shotswap rampage on my exalted and been liking it.
Loved seeing you on True Vanguards stream. Absolute legends 🙏🙏♥️♥️
Personally I find the weapon, * ahem *, WEAPON sandbox to be in a pretty good place, nothing feels to dominate imo, handcannons are finally in a place where they are far from unusable but not a must use option
My go to aggressive build right now is actually handcannon plus SMG on icurus dash + heat rises warlock, and with the AE changes I actually feel confident taking to the air against a titan barricade
But thats not to say the sandbox as a whole is in a good place, classic abilities even after the nerfs are really strong, idk how us Warlocks completely dodged getting our rift nerfed
I've always loved pulses more than HCs. Even with that bias I can admit it's a pulse rifle world and the rest of the weapons are just living in it. Either knock them down or push HCs and autos up. Then you'll have a diverse sandbox.
I have a roll with:
Fluted
Accurized
RF
EOTS
Stability MW
I also use an adept range mod. This makes my stats extremely well rounded with 73s in range, stability, and handling. Best dueling hand cannon I’ve ever used.
I think if smg range comes down a bit for some outliers as well as HC AE being buffed again (either through buffing base values or making it easier to get higher aim assist), I think things would be better. My biggest problem rn with hand cannons is that I feel helpless in the air with them when running any exotic outside of foetracer with the inflight compensator, I don't feel confident jumping in the air still to land crits (particularly with connections right now) which is not a good feeling when trying to create distance from smgs or trying to aggress on a pulse from the air before bursting you down. Idk it feels very strange right now in the meta in that it's being played in extremes, at least on PC for me. Either you get super hyper aggressive smg PK titans or people sitting in a lane with a pulse and either an smg or shotgun to deal with you up close, with no room for mid range. It's unfortunate but until we get a sandbox preview for Lightfall, I'm not optimistic about how pvp is gonna turn out with the grappling hook of strand exacerbating connection issues, melee lunges being a problem still, and the list goes on. I'm hyped for the PVE side next week but pvp is once again a wait and see and hope they hammer things down again.
they need to give handcannons a slight bump if theyre going to compete with pulses.
I agree, the abundance of health manipulation abilities, tied with the homogenized outlook players have to choosing weapons (high range and or high burst) or stifling the weapon sandbox. Sidearms cant reliably find a space on mnk because smgs have better flinch and control; autos are, again, outclassed by smgs with ttk, but also every other weapon type wince their ease of use is far less than that of HCs and pulses; and scouts (outside of dmt) have an incredibly niche roll to fill, that it's simply not worth it.
Those were some really cool combos. Hope those rolls show up on crafted weapons eventually.
I love the feeling of HCs. But Ive never loved Rangefinder on them. Used to be with the right positioning i could make a non rangefinder hc work. Now i feel forced to use the perk. Big sad. Awesome video CG.
I agree man, I’ve been using Ace and trying to stay radiant pretty much exclusively because of these issues. Other than that, it’s vigilance wing or Monte Carlo if I’m running Athrys’s.
I got a couple adepts. One roll is hammer forge, accurized rounds, killing wind and rampage handling masterwork.
The other one is hammer forge, flared, outlaw and encore with reload master.
I thankfully got a KW EOTS roll and its a very comfy gun to run 6v6s with, I don't even have a adept range mod on it and its still up to 77 range with small bore and accurized and the added stats from KW make it really fun to get multi kills with. That being said, I only use it every once and a while for the same reasons you list here, hand canons are just something that can't compete with higher burst dps weapons right now
Looking forward to your take on mechaneers tricksleeves!
The best roles I've managed to get are a rangefinder/KC and a KW/Encore, neither are adept. I love both but when the KW/Encore starts rolling, its absolutely incredible. Maybe the best feeling HC I've used
I was able to get one with fluted, accurized, rangefinder, and repulser/encore. Great for pve and pvp. Range masterwork as well. With adept range, it's at 80 range, 66 stability, 73 handling. Feels incredible
@CoolGuy, Love the videos. I watch every one. I just got rangefinder, encore, accurized, hammerforged, ranged masterwork on the adept version and am so pumped. I am so excited cause I'm not very good at PVP and really wanted this one.
Should see my slickdraw gutshot roll. Really got me in the guts when I opened that chest.
I have a non adept corkscrew accurized rangefinder/encore roll handling mw gives me 68 range/66 stab/ 70 handling warlock ophidians main. I play on console, and with the recent AE changes it’s tough to decide if it’s worth using this gun. Sacrificing a targeting mod with this HC aim assist for icarus is tough. Even Austringer with its lower AA doesn’t feel as bad. Especially when you are talking about range drop off issues. My slideshot/explosive rose HC has lower stability but as I try and close the gap, at least I may flinch them off.
I have an adept palindrome with rangefinder, but it’s never “clicked” with me, may have to have a play test and see what I can pull off with that. Overall, I think with light fall an adept igneous hammer with elemental capacitor I have may be able to pull off some absurd things… have to see what energy hand cannon will be worth it.
I've hated pulse rifles from the start, mostly because of the last of us, of all primaries probably my least used in the 5ish years I've been playing but I picked one up again and man was did things get significantly easier. No more worrying about if I have the range to engage, no more worrying about that 3rd trigger pull, I can still peak shoot, it does more damage per pull than a hand cannon, it's easy street. I run hand cannons for fun, satisfaction, but that pulse is coming when I just want to win
8:35 - I get the point you're trying to make but if you had been literally 1 step further forward when you slide that corner (and there was room to be a step closer as you came around the centre object) you would've got the 3 tap. So sure, range is (and always has been) important on a Hand Cannon, but knowing your range and playing within that is equally if not more important. You said earlier in the video that you can create lanes with a Pulse Rifle, you can also force close range duels with SMGs and Sidearms, so if it's true for other primaries there's no reason you can't force engagements within Hand Cannon range too.
I agree with everything else you said about them being in a bad spot because of second chance mechanics, but the range issue isn't actually a real issue, they now have a range they thrive in and aren't eating into Pulse (or even Scout like the old 120s used to) range.
Full bore / Acc. Rounds /Rf /Encore.. Handling MW . I've been in love since I got it
With all the buffs to every pulse rifle archetype over the last year they could give Hand Cannons some of their range back.
Hcs dont need buffs, pulses need a nerf tbh
Agree with everything you said here, I’m waiting for a bomb on the TWAB this week… I have been wrong before though.
I am not even close to your shadow in PVP and I play occasionally. I used to favor HCs but for a while I see they don't hit as hard as before so I switched to SMGs and Pulses. You explained a lot about the current state of the game so I am happy it is just the impression of a low level PVP player. I hope HCs will get some love soon from Bungie.
Lately, I've been feeling that using a handcannon that can't reach 33m and beyond is tantamount to hamstringing yourself.
no matter how much they nerf my stompee palindrome shotty loadout i’m always going to use it, feels the best and most rewarding for high skill play
I lucked out with mine I got small bore accurized rounds rangefinder ether eye of the Strom or encode and has range master love it I don't need to play trails when it's the hand cannon I feel like I have the best roll keep up the great work on these reviews!!!
I had encore on the HC from prophecy that I really enjoyed but the stats just couldn’t keep up, I was so glad to get a rangefinder encore on this, so much fun
My hunter uses rangefinder eye of the storm that I can swap to rampage for pve, titan uses rangefinder frenzy/encore, and warlock uses perfect float eye of the storm. I love this hand cannon more than I ever liked palindrome it feels so much better
Personally have a full bore, accurized, rangefinder, frenzy with range MW with range mod. God damn 95 range hitting 38m feels sooo good. Then when frenzy proc you extend that range even more
I've been using a perfect float/eye of the storm roll and I'm really enjoying it. Just constantly gets more stable
Range finder eye of the storm feels legit just unfair when you take the gun into base crucible.
Excuse me while I play the world's tiniest violin for hand cannons
Over under and Kill clip is a lot of fun. 85 range reaching out pretty well. 😬
A coolguy video I don't need to watch damn.
I'm never getting one of these to drop lol
I've gotten every roll I'd need except rangefinder eye of the storm.
1.Rangefinder kc
2. Adept outlaw rampage/eye of the storm
3. Outlaw repulser brace
4.rangerfinder encore
5. Perfect float rampage.
Look, for me, Fatebringer always just FEELS better, even if I get up to a similar stability on a different gun, Fatebringer always just feels like it doesn't recoil as much, it feels more consistent.
Lightfall is gonna be spiderman everywhere
Not gonna lie CoolGuy, I'm keeping my eyes on Under-Over. If Woven Mail counts as an "overshield" effect just like void overshields, it would be really nice to have.
Maybe feeling required to squeeze out 100% range on everything isn't perfect but I do think that the general position of hand cannons might actually be ideal. HC is always op because they have the cleanest peek shot. When another weapon archetype has to balance with that, it's going to feel better in non peek shot scenarios especially non sweat ones. I don't think HC should have the cleanest peek shot and be just as good everywhere else.
I got 2 normal ETs with the rolls that I wanted. RF and EoTS, RF RB. I love the feel of this handcannon.
Insightful commentary as usual
Maniacal laughing ensues: have the close-range maps come back oh they have
Shot Swap + Encore. REALLY wanted Rangefinder
SMGs pushing into HC territory is the reason why this is happening. Pulses have existed alongside HCs during HC metas for ages. So what do you think would cause HCs falling off the map now = SMG ranges of 25m+
It's too much. SMGs need to get back in their lane. They've almost completely invalidated autorifles and now HCs are dealing with the same oppressive range pushes. They definitely need to be sitting at a max of 22m imo.
Encore, RF, tac mag, extended barrel (100 recoil), range MW, adept range - slappppps
I have an Outlaw Encore roll with stability MW. Never thought I'd choose Encore but it's really good.
All hand cannons just need a few more meters of range
Soo... First of all great vid. Regarding the final point about pulses, while I do think pulses are a bit too hot right now I don't think 140 hand cannons should be out dueling high impact pulses. If they were able to do that there would be no point to have 120s. Perhaps I am missing something here but that's my 2 cents.
GG’s in trials last weekend. Matched you in freelance.
Died a LOT to this at the weekend. Not much fun to be on the receiving end. Reminded me of Lunas Howl misery a few years back.
I feel a pretty similar way about 140 hand cannons. They are really good, and they are quite fun seeing as they play very different from other weapons. But they arn’t as strong as everything else at all. At their lowest ranges, smgs beat the TTK by .2 of a second, which is a lot. At the higher ranges, pulses beat it by .2 also. Even with the best hand cannons (im an austringer user myself) everything beats them out. 180s are also complete garbage, some of the worst crucible weapons in the game, and 120s, while very fun, don’t have the range or TTK to deal with targets in their intended ranged either. Mostly people use them as cleanup weapons for sniper hotswap builds. More range would be nice, but i don’t think thats the correct fix for any of these hand cannons, other than 180s. On controller, a nice change to see would be raising the stability floor. In other words, lower stability doesn’t feel as bad as it does now, but higher stability still feels the same. Another great change to see all around is lowering aim assist bloom. I get in so many duels where the bloom effects my headshots, and i end up losing the engagement because i cant switch to another target and still have good aim assist. This is why things like eye of the storm feel so good (hence why i use austringer). They just are a little bit bad in every category. Not bad weapons, but lacking a tiny bit in so many places that they just don’t feel as good anymore. There are outliers (ace of spades still feels incredible even with the low stability), but very few perfect god roll 140 (not even including 180s and 120s) hand cannons hit the same mark of competitiveness that a god roll pulse rifle (of any archetype) do. Even 390 pulses are still better than hand cannons just because they have more range and more ease of use despite the obnoxiously high TTK. And pulse rifles still work fairly well in closer ranges whereas hand cannons have a very specific range where they work, and too close or too far (even just a little bit) makes them very difficult to use.
I probably should have kept a Repulsor Brace roll for this, but I just felt like the Veles-X is etter due to having Golden Tricorn
I run an Eye of the Storm, Killing Wind roll on mine. It can have 90 range but I usually do 80 range on it for more handling in general.
I'm tired of trying to use hand cannons. Been trying for years. My skill ceiling has been hit. I go for god rolls and then tell myself what's the point.. still shit even with the best roll.
But I appreciate the insight.
I know it probably doesn't really help the overall viability of HCs, but if they're gonna be viable in a pulse/SMG/auto rifle (god forbid) meta I feel like they at least need to be a bit more lenient. 2 head 1 body, tbh. You're still gonna really need to engage at intended range, but if you're getting beamed by someone who's within your intended range, you should have some kind of fighting chance. Almost all other weapons that play in HC range have some kind of forgiveness to them, but 140s need three perfect crits. It just doesn't feel great.
Hi cool guy, love the video, have you tried underover on this weapon?
I have a Rangefinder + Rampage/Frenzy. Not sure if I prefer Rampage or Frenzy more. But my initial reaction was more negative than I expected, in part because I feel like running a HC when the map rotation is so long range is setting myself up for failure.
No matter how much this is theoretically better than palindrome, I already have a 5/5 roll and never want to touch trials
Mine is Encore/Rangefinder and it’s easily the best feeling HC in the game for me.
Agree with the handcannon disadvantage with everyone sitting back with overshields and you can’t get close as a Hunter as Neutral game is crap across the board. Not buying a new pc so would love to hear your thoughts on the latter. For me warlocks and arc and void titans stupidly broken yet everyone hates on the invis Hunter failing to see why people turn to it. Calibans or stomps blink not bad options but for pure consistency which void warlock do you pick?
I’m keeping an Under-over just in case we get another over shield meta.
I've been having much the same experience with crucible lately, with the existence of easy second chance options and pulses being as dominant as they are if I use a handcannon I lean more towards damage perks (mainly frenzy) to keep them consistent.
I'm keeping a bunch of weapons with Under Over in preparation for Void Overshield spam in PvP