Thomas Abbott yeah, I like browsing around aliexpress for the sheer weirdness, but I wouldn’t buy stuff there that could affect my physical safety like bike components. I still think there are people who watch these videos and get inspired to exercise pretty dicey choices
Not quite! I've extensively used the Empire groupset and it's excellent. I completely disagree with this review. Please don't let this review put you off trying this group out because you're missing out if you do.
@@deanbuckingham8064 Well, I actually spent the afternoon slapping the trusty old Tiagra back on the bike, its a bit of a franken-groupset, but works like a dream!! Posted a little update vid on my Instagram if you wanna check it out 😎
I can confirm that the plastic piece that broke in this video has been changed to an aluminum part. I just received my Empire 2x11 groupset and that piece is aluminum on both shifters. It looks solid and the shifting is smooth.
Where have you been forever?!!? Your videos are the best - funny, informative, detailed, simply AWESOME! Thank you and keep up the amazing work! Please! :)
Not just in aliexpress probably in all online market.. i even cancel my order in amazon.. coz im puting up some stuff in cart( to know how much it cost) to build my future bike.
Safe, inexpensive, or lightweight. Pick two. If lightweight and inexpensive it ain't safe If lightweight and safe it ain't inexpensive If safe and inexpensive it ain't lightweight
'F' for that front shifter. 🙌🙌🙌 You're doing (the cycling) god's work with this endurance testing - I swap bikes too much and don't do enough riding these days. My sensah groupset ended up on my indoor trainer bike, anecdotally its still going strong but hard to guesstimate how many shifts it's done. Currently riding the Sensah GRX grouspet... it's 1x so it should survive! Hahaha.
I'm running Empire 1x11 with modded RD-M8000, which probably also means a bit higher cable tension, haha. Maybe will check the shifter for lubrication, but there is definitely some on the ratchets.
China Cycling, good to see you watch other Cycling UA-camrs, you rock! Now, may I suggest or request, seeing that Luke suffered this failure, and Sensah sent you two sets of their 12-speed Groupset,... please lend/gift Luke one the sets to review. Thanks in advance.
As someone who works in manufacturing I'm impressed your analysis of why they made the broken part out of plastic and what they could have done. You are completely correct.
Additionally to my comment from a few days ago, I've been running the Empire groupset for a while now and I have to say it's excellent quality and innovative too. The shift mechanism is excellent using only one lever to change up and down. And as previously mentioned, your front mech was mounted incorrectly which was putting too much strain into the mechanism and increasing the chances of jamming the chain when shifting. With the front mech mounted higher the shift is smooth and soft.
WOW!! Was about to finally pull the trigger on this groupset. Was procrastinating for ages, and let a very good priced set of 105’s go past, because I finally decided that Sensah was alright based on all the online “reviews”. Today I finally decided to purchase the Sensah, when this video came online. Saved at the 11th hour. Thanks for taking one for the team Luke!!
I just got the pro... The 12s Cassette does not seem to quite fit on the hub... the locking ring does not lock. It is ruining my whole build and I don't know what to do! Did you not have this problem?
So happy to see on GCN!!! Well done and well deserved! Ppl often forget the not everyone is loaded with money plus the fact that we all should enjoy the ride and forget about what you're riding! Again, WELL DONE!
Excellent video Luke! Thanks for the info.. I was watching a video from GCN about Chinese carbon frames and it would be awesome seen you in a video with them.. everyone was asking for that in the comments hehe 👍🏻keep the good work
Reviews like this are the most important reviews. Helping people save money will help more people get into the sport. Good on ya I'll be watching more. 🇦🇺👍
I have the older gray version that I've been riding about a year now with no problems. However, I'll certainly take your advice about reducing tension on the FD.
Good point about the broken campag shifter lever - I had this problem once (Chorus 11) but worked out that it was down to my poor installation of the Front mech. Once sorted, no more problems.
@Lex Man I'm not Aaron D'Angelo, but am willing to explain my purchase. I'm building a cheap Chinese carbon bike because I don't have thousands to spend on a new bike and I want some of that sweet, sweet carbon. However, a "reputable" company's frameset is out of my price range. I have had steel and aluminum in the past. Right now, I ride a steel frame, single speed, track bike (free wheel with brakes these days, I'm not sooo insane anymore) as a commuter because it's indestructible. I have ordered the Sensah Empire 2x11 for this new build. Why? I used to be the guy that said, "everything coming from China is crap." I felt this was justified because all the crappy products I had bought were from China. But, that's what they said about Japanese products back in the day, too (I am old enough to remember). And now look at them. I own a 55" TCL, Chinese brand, 4K TV that I really like and have had no problem with for two years now. I own many other Chinese products that I really like. There's still a lot of Chinese crap. Most of the bicycles sold by major brands are made in Asia/China. Ok, the engineering may be done elsewhere, but I'm sure the skill-set of actually putting the pieces together is all in those factories. My perspective has changed. Do I feel anxiety about purchasing from companies that I don't know? HELL YEAH. But I am more confident now. I contact each company and it I get quick feedback, I feel more trust for them. I'm glad to watch Trace Velo give his poor experience with this product. I jumped online to order a Shimano derailleur. Hopefully, they'll make improvements. So, yeah, I am always looking for a deal and sometimes it bites me in the ass, but I have a friend that always buys only the best of anything (stereo equipment, etc) and he gets his ass bitten too. It's just more expensive for him. However. . . ask me how I feel in a year or two 😂
@@jgreenjeans you're going to enjoy your sensah, i have it as well on my 2nd bike and due to some research before buying i knew the f.d. is not that good, so i bought the version with just the levers and rear derailleur and a R7000 105 f.d.. On my other bike i have an entire Ultegra/Dure-Ace mix and the difference is minimal, def not worth it if you're not racing on high level. I have CSC carbon 50mm deep 12K twill finish wheels since a month aswell from china and even after a hard crash they are fine, few scratches.
When you get them you should grease the internals. I have done 4000km w/o shifting issues. Paired with SRAM Force 22 and SRAM GX 10 speed. I have another bike using the same shifters with the Sensah RD but changed the FD too SRAM. Use the small screwdriver to remove the shifter faceplate to lob grease into them before installing.
ua-cam.com/video/ADJhvOUc2w4/v-deo.html This is my video of the internals. Grease every spring and mech with a tiny artist paintbrush. This is before greasing. There are 3 Phillips screws holding the plate down.
ua-cam.com/video/ExMRuUNmhKQ/v-deo.html This is my Sensah Empire shifting SRAM GX 10s. Front derailleur is a Force 22 with GRX FC-R600 2x10 crank 46/30. Cassette is XT 11-42t. This is a touring bike.
Good to see reviews/tests of these cheap Chinese offerings. I have been put off them recently. I bought two carbon seatposts from Ebay. One in-line the other offset. Unbranded, from two different sellers (both based in China, but dispatch from the UK). Both seatposts looked like they were probably made in the same factory. Both really light, but looked solid enough, although the saddle fittings, made of a light alloy, were clearly low quality. Anyway, used the in-line post on my turbo trainer bike. Seemed fine. Checked it after 12 weeks. The carbon had cracked badly/disintegrated on one side of the post, about 2 cm below the seatpost clamp, i.e where you wouldn't notice it unless you removed the seatpost. < 5 nM torque. On UK roads I think this would have failed quickly, possibly immediately (pothole) Switched to the offset post. Checked this one after two days use, again on the turbo trainer. 1 cm split in the carbon, same place. Thanks for the video. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Thomas. I feel like I could have put some more effort into the intro, but i just wanted to get this one out as fast as possible, as i know a few people were considering buying this groupset after my last vid!
My left Ultegra shifter failed in the exact same way (if I understand the mechanics correctly) two or three years ago, so this is something that happens, although usually after a long period of usage.
Hey Luke...I am a Campy aficionado and Campy's small lever is for the down shifting from large CR to the Small one. And doesn't require a whole lot of pressure. Minimal at best because the derailer spring does the work so not sure what your fan was doing to snap the small lever on the Campy. Either maintenance neglect or pushing way harder then required. I ran 10bsp Record Campy for thousands of miles in over a decade and not once did I have shifter issue, other than the usual wear ( in which case I rebuilt the shifters) but as of today they are still on a road through a friend of mine that is still using them.
This is a terrific video--thank you for sharing your experience! As a counterpoint, I have ridden Sensah Empire 2x11 for about 3000 miles with no issues whatsoever. However, I did as Joe at China Cycling suggested (and you discovered), and I used a different front derailleur. In my case, it is a Campagnolo Super Record, and it actually produces the best front shifting I have ever experienced. Plus I love the fact that 75% of my group costs less than a replacement spring for the other 25%. Why not try your own suggestion, and report back how you make out? At $89, two Sensah shifters and a rear derailleur are less than a single Shimano 105 shifter. And if it doesn't work out ... your failures are much more interesting than your successes. Thanks again for the super video!
Recently I commented on you video. My opinion was as follows; "your front mech was mounted incorrectly which was putting too much strain into the mechanism and increasing the chances of jamming the chain (and snapping as a result) when shifting" And I added, based on my experience of the Group; "With the front mech mounted higher the shift is smooth and soft" I also pointed out that Sensah have actually improved Sram's shifting mechanism by condensing everything into one lever rather than two. It would be awesome to get a reply stating your opinion on my analysis because I think the Empire Group is absolutely excellent and I feel that by giving a bad review, people will miss out on a stunning bit of kit!
I've been using empire for over a year, racing it internationally, through it on planes and cars and have had zero issues yet. Certainly compared to other groupsets (not even taking price into account) myself or others have not had more issues or questions than any other brand. Unfortunate for you. We have a bunch of people and friends now using Sensah. Will keep an eye on that part from now on though.
on second thought my left brifter does not require a ton of force like you mention. maybe the install and cable set up added to the issue? Cable bend around the bar set up and or routing to your FD?
Hello mate, I just started watching you randomly and this video was too perfect...I'm living and riding in Taiwan and I've had the same issue with my Sensah groupset. I took a little fall and the shifter just exploded in tiny little plastic pieces. The shifting was super smooth and I was blown away by it, but the quality is definitely on the low side. Anyways, really enjoying your videos. Great job and best of luck!!! 😎🤙
As a Chinese I really am disappointed that we are still making things like this. It could be lethal if some mechanical parts with the braking went wrong.
Hou Felix - ‘Made In China” is considered a bad thing in the US. Not entirely deserved, lots of high quality products are made there. Business in China is so ruthless that cutting corners is normal. There’s always someone who demands it cheaper and there’s always someone willing to make it that way. You end up with a race to the bottom in quality. This will probably change with the younger generations. In my experience, it’s the older Chinese that demand things for cheap. “You get what you pay for.”
@@ClockworksOfGL Yes I generally agree with you. The cost is one essential factor that the Chinese corporations decision makers care about. The market positioning is also a big problem. You see, most Chinese people believes "You get what you pay for", so "This is cheap, and it gotta be low quality, I would not by it". In fact there are some manufactors trying very hard to make real good things. Take Vortex wheels for example, anyone who bought it is satified with the performance. However, they are equally priced as the campagnolo bora wto. So, a lot of people would say, at this price, why I have to buy this "made in china" thing? There is prejudice, and lacking of credit. So, it is very difficult for the small manufacturers, especially new ones to balance the cost and quality. We are making progresses, but really not so fast in the civil technology.
Hey Luke! Thanks for making this channel! I've watched every video except the full bike build. I was about to settle for a Specialized Allez with Claris, but you inspired me to look more for carbon at my budget and I ended up getting a Nashbar Carbon 105 off Craigslist. I was happy to find out it was a Taiwan made frame and It's way better then my 4130 fixed gear.
I bought the same Sensah Groupset. And when it will arrive I will isntall it with a Tiagra Front Derailleur (which I do have laying around). THX for the info!
Trace Velo Thanks for a fantastic channel. I rode extensively from 13-30 years of age, starting on road bikes and ending up on mountain bikes. But my dream Bianchi bike was stolen, and unable to afford to replace it, I foolishly stopped riding totally. Now 62, I need to start riding again and so have taken a great interest in video channels, yours being one of my favourites for its sincerity and down to earth approach (no need to be self-deprecating you know :) ). It would be fascinating and very useful if you could consider doing a video describing how, based on your current understanding of cheaper components, you would build an ideal bike for the lowest reasonable cost but with the focus being on the greatest result in terms of performance and safety - for example, you might seriously recommend a Chinese carbon frame and other parts, but not the pedals or groupset or whatever. This way, viewers should be able to design their (almost) perfect bike within a reasonable budget (cough) but not a premium budget (cough, cough, choke)... Keep up the great work mate!
Great vid as always, Luke Sad to hear of the failure, you should contact Sensah specially having found another owner who had a similar problem, this is bad design and they should refund or send you a new one, at the least.. in theory, parts like that which are under great and constant tension should be undergo tests of thousands of cycles, like 10 ou 100k shifts, to make sure the parts and the system as a whole is sturdy enough and can sustain months/years of suffering.. but then again, this is another part that increases the costs, not only the material but doing less quality tests and approving the part with fewer cycles would save some money - and is one of the main problems with China components, they can work well but probably will not last long
Stefano Bellote well there’s a reason comparable group sets from established brands cost 3x. In my experience if you buy a quality product it will outlast you. Sure cogs, chains will wear out over time, but they are designed to be replaceable. Cheers.
Yikes. thanks for posting this. I am currently at 1500+km with my Empire groupset. Maybe 30% of it on gravel. I have never liked the front shifting and can see why this happened. I am going to dig up a shimano FD for sure, before this happens to me. The other change to the groupset I did was a SRAM GX 10speed long cage RD. It works perfect with this 11 speed groupset and allows me to run a 11-40 XT cassette out back, as well as have clutch.
@@TraceVelo Thanks for that! I was wondering if it was GF reinforced but clearly there was some sort of stress concentration that was not accounted for
It seems that the o ring joint is not strong enough to absorb the torque forces on each shift. Plastic on high stress point is always going to be dicey. Just check out Shimano and Campagnolo, you don't really see much plastics in those places.
Thanks for the review Luke! I have decided to buy the sensah empire groupset for my bike, but instead of using a different front derailleur, such as the shimano claris R2000 because of it’s older pull ratio (1:1) and it’s ability to be replaced quite easily, 20$ below.
Damn it! I just bought the shifters and front and rear derailleurs to put on my smart trainer bike. Luckily I have an Ultegra shifter and front derailleur lying around so maybe I'll use those.
SRAM have a very similar component in their doubletap shifters, it's a. Die-cast part and is also prone to failure, often in the RH shifter due to seeing a lot more use.
Out of curiosity, have you tried contacting Sensa and letting them know the problem and that you have a fairly popular channel? They may be willing to at least send you a replacement to see if it happens again.
Sorry to see this Luke. GCN were discussing Chinese frames & a number of us commented that they should contact you for a feature on Chinese equipment. Hopefully they will.
I love your honest reviews. They show clearly what money gets you and where to be a cheapskate. However on these complicated mechanics I’d rely on quality. Seen what Shimano 105 nowerdays is able to get you (felt near no differences to my ultegra from last gen) for about 300€ i think there’s more value for money to make
Watching you shift up tells me that your front mech could do with being mounted slightly higher up as there is too much of a possibility of jamming the chain....leading to failure.
I bought a campy groupset just like the one you showed, got a great deal due to broken front shifter lever. I put it on my one-by bike and its perfect 👌
Regarding the broken piece of plastic. To produce a plastic piece by injection moulding you still need a casting die. The price is somewhat equivalent to produce a high pressure die casting tool for aluminium. The difference lies in the material cost and the slightly longer cycle time for the aluminium and some fettling operations afterwards. But it won't be that more expensive.
Really, good to know. Makes me wonder why Sensah never chose to make it out of aluminium then... They must have really been working to bring the cost for manufacturing as low as possible...
Sensah need to hear this! They made fail product and if they still want to stay in the business, they need to improve! Too bad for startup doing blunder like this.
I have just received my Empire Pro groupset and the shifter triggers are all made of alloy as reported. I have made an unbox clip so you can see yourself about it. Also, I have been told by Alan Xiao of Sensah that buyers of faulty components can get a free replacement. They will need to contact their seller directly to arrange a replacement. So Luke, maybe there is hope for you to get things worked out. Good luck!
I got the 1X12. Its been 2 months now and probably 600 Km and its still good. I love and it doesn't look like its going to break ( Fingers crossed). If it breaks I just buy a new one which means Im staying with this Sensah forever.
did you ever get a refund or something? I just bought a new set from the official store (at least that is it's name on AliX) and they changed the part to aluminium :)
A hand 🖐🏻 for consumer journalism! Well played Luke. I’d like to see Sensah’s response - they gotta sort this one out. I’m still angling for their SRX GS for a gravel build - it’s a 1 x 11 😉
IF the derailleur has a high limit screw, perhaps set it by backing it WAY out, to guarantee that it is NOT actually limiting it's travel, which in turn may reduce the maximum cable tension. Then tighten it to the point at which it only JUST starts to limit the travel, and then back it off again a whisker.
Been running Sensah Empire for about 500km on a Trek 1500 SLR from 2006. It was taking a lot of effort to shift the FD from small to big ring so I readjusted and but still couldn’t improve it. I swapped it out for an Ultegra 6800 Fd and it works sweet. My bike has external cabling. So far, the Sensah (with Ultegra fd) is the best shifting groupset I’ve used. And I’ve had all levels of Shimano mechanical setups + SRAM Force. Really hope it’s durable.....
The Sensah lever blade is an *exact* copy of the Shimano. I had both of them 3D scanned for a product I was working on. They were identical to the 0.1mm.
I see Sensah has acknowledged the issue on twitter and says the item is under warranty and they are replacing with a metal part - fancy taking another one for the team Luke?? twitter.com/AlanXia32692058/status/1285206528501223424?s=19
To much blah blah blah, man! Just e-mail Sensah and the warranty will work, simple as that. I have seen dozens of Shimano and Campy broken as this (off course not for just hundreds of miles), but costumer reviews, complaints and feedbacks will improve the manufacturing skills of Sensah. It's great for cycling community relly on a new brand. The Empire shifiting solution is awesome, very responsive, as smooth as Dura Ace, precise. Hope the warranty program covers your broken part.
Front derailleur shifter cable tensions are high. Have had problems with with the Front derailleur sliding down on frame's mounting bracket, no matter how tight, even tried carbon paste. On a couple builds, I have had to use a spacer inside that space between the derailleur mounting bolt and the inside-bottom of the mounting bracket. To block that space, and check the derailleur's downward movement. New build, monitor and keep derailleur cage adjustment close to 3mm above chainring.
As well as the metal part in the lever, as you mention, the lever part of the front mech is critical. Interesting to note that part on the Campy groupset was very similar to the Sensah...
Quick tip, dont use the 4700 front mech because it's 10 speed and is built wider to cope with the wider 10sp chains. Use a 105 - 5800, it's an 11 speed front mech and you won't risk jammed chains between your chain rings, and it's only £5 to £10 more
I have had SRAM Force and Apex groupsets, The Apex equipped bike had a similar problem but instead of the left shifter breaking it worked it's way through several cable inners. You mention a couple of possible causes and some solutions. I'd also add that overly tight cable routing can be an issue and that shifting against the limiter can also cause too much tension on the cable. Front gears can be setup over tensioned which might lead to having to wind in the limits to avoid spilling the chain. Ultimately a bad design and poor choice of materials in manufacture. It's a shame they chose to clone the SRAM system rather than the Shimano.
Luke- good video. Very nice documentation of the issue. My take on this is that Shimano has already solved these issues and developed superior products. Just pay them and reward the OG innovators. No need to feed copycats and deal with their mistakes.
Thanks for the video. I use this group on 2 of my 1X bikes, no issues in over a year, I prefer it over my other Ultegra setup. I can't comment on the left shifter as I don't use it (for shifting) So maybe for the 1X users out there this could be an option.
A Shimano barend shifter for the front derailleur is cheap, bomb proof and very easy to activate. I use a Shimano 11 sp. brake/shift lever for the rear but a barend shifter for front. No issues.
I've been using mine on the trainer/Zwift with no issues as i bought this groupser last year to replace my 10 speed campy groupset. Ive been very pleased with it and have had no issues.......knock on wood. Ive taken it outdoors for several weeks now and still no issues. Hopefully wont have any. On a good note could always buy another shifter. I wonder if it's because of the angle of the cable which could determine how hard it has to pull.
Random tip - you know those little soy sauce plastic fish you get with sushi, rinse one out, fill it with lube and chuck it in your saddle bag. Then when the days comes where you've forgotten to lube your chain but are already running late for the group ride, or where your Sensah Empire front derailleur needs lubing, you're sorted.
I had the exact same faliure on some SRAM force levers circa. 2010 went through 3 sets of those levers on warranty in one year.. The piece was alluminium in those still was very fragile. SRAM red at the time had titanium internals so I was told anyway. I managed to haggle an upgraded to them after the 3rd faliure and never had the issue again..
I bought a used set of Rival shifters recently and the right hand one had this failure. I returned them, bought a new set and the new ones have a much beefier mechanism.
Im running the sensah empire pro group set but using my original Tiagra front derailleur which seems to be working out pretty well. It shifts smooth with very little effort and I can go from little to big ring with one push.
It appears that the wire is routed in front (improper) of the stop on the front derailleur, instead of behind. While I do not know if this is actually how the wire is supposed to route, I can say that if it were a Shimano (FD) it would in fact go behind. The significance is that it would require less force to move the front derailleur ( less strain on the shifter) if it had been routed behind, even though I can't say that the shifter would/ would not still have broken.
I design, build, and test different types of products in different industries for a living. One of the many things I've learned over the years is the importance of testing and evaluation of materials ,critical parts and components of any system and an entire system. I believe that the reason groupsets by Shimano, Campagnolo, and SRAM are so expensive is because of their research and development programs and the brilliant engineers that work to make sure that these products are capable to perform at the competitive levels of bicycle racing. If there is anything I can say is that whenever a product, system, materials, adhesives or composite layup has not been evaluated by a testing facility to meet certain standards of performance for a specific application in any field there will be no guarantees to the integrity of components or a system to perform at the level required to avoid catastrophic failures when life and property are at stake. It is my opinion that if you plan to ride a bicycle subjecting it to high speeds and a torturous environment daily that you DON"T USE NON-CERTIFIED COMPONENTS OR SYSTEMS or NON-QUALIFIED products if you want to reduce the chance of injury to yourself and others. Sometimes lighter or cheaper is not better. We all know that cheaper usually means lower quality. Have a fun and safe ride! Be cautious, wear all your protective gear in case of a fall or catastrophic failure...
So, manufacturer tips: Use a lighter gauge spring for the front derailleur and/or figure out better design for leverage. Consider a plastic composite (Some tire levers have a glass fiber composite, which makes them super tough for all those high tension tire removal jobs), or maybe you can cast it from metal with a small amount of drilling rather than full CNC? That Campagnolo shifter could have been stiffer if carbon fiber was part of the plastic injection.
With those brands it is better buy the second version. I have a Java bike mount with mircoshift. The groupset is very good and the customer atention is also stunning!
Just upgraded my Tiagra 4700 to 105 5800 because the Front Shifter failed but it had been fine for 18 months or so ~ 25,000-30,000km. All brands fail but some are better quality and last longer...
Absolutely appreciate your honesty and clarity in these videos they're brilliant
Way to take one for the whole cycling community!
No one actually in the cycling community would consider this groupset
Thomas Abbott yeah, I like browsing around aliexpress for the sheer weirdness, but I wouldn’t buy stuff there that could affect my physical safety like bike components. I still think there are people who watch these videos and get inspired to exercise pretty dicey choices
The Empire groupset is awesome....bad mech mounting caused the failure
Not quite! I've extensively used the Empire groupset and it's excellent. I completely disagree with this review. Please don't let this review put you off trying this group out because you're missing out if you do.
@@thomasabbott2277 lol untrue! I did and my experience has been brilliant! Don't lose out due to ignorance!
It's not a bug, it's a feature. They obvioulsy upgraded to one-by
HA! You know what, you are right, its all about perspective!
@@TraceVelo what are you going to do about the FD? 1 x and grind up those hills? Or move somewhere flatter?
@@deanbuckingham8064 Well, I actually spent the afternoon slapping the trusty old Tiagra back on the bike, its a bit of a franken-groupset, but works like a dream!! Posted a little update vid on my Instagram if you wanna check it out 😎
@@TraceVelo shameless plug 😂
@@deanbuckingham8064 I'm just a humble doucebag, trying to make an honest living😜
I can confirm that the plastic piece that broke in this video has been changed to an aluminum part. I just received my Empire 2x11 groupset and that piece is aluminum on both shifters. It looks solid and the shifting is smooth.
I really gotta check out the new shifters!!!!
just gut the new empire 11 speed shifter.its bloody good.been chaNGED TO alu
So means anyone who recently bought it will get an alu version?
I plan to get one
Can you please send me the link to this updated aluminium version? So i can be sure tonorder the "good" one . Thanks a lot.
Sensah!!! sent Luke a pro set( new 2x12) for free, than he can do a review on that one. WE ARE WATCHING.
Suport Luke and like this.
where u find that?
TBH, I would be really interested in seeing a comparison (or even a tear-down) of this one versus the more expensive pro version.
Where have you been forever?!!? Your videos are the best - funny, informative, detailed, simply AWESOME! Thank you and keep up the amazing work! Please! :)
Thanks so much Dee, what an awesome comment 🐸
The sound of a thousand people screaming at aliexpress to cancel their order...
Not just in aliexpress probably in all online market.. i even cancel my order in amazon.. coz im puting up some stuff in cart( to know how much it cost) to build my future bike.
I like this reference 👌
Hopefully they'll hear everyone and fix the problem.
They'd be stupid for listening to this review then....
Sensh's official store has updated the products with that piece of aluminum 🙏🏼
Big fan of your channel , was great to see you on GCN show.... shows how much you are respected ...well done and keep up the hard work man ...
Cheers Carl, appreciate it!
“Strong, light, cheap. Pick two.”
That's Gold 😎
Kalloy UNO stem
Golden rule. since i rent out stuff i take strong and cheap (shimano Deore 9 spd)
@@1barnet1 Deore is just lovely groupset. Strong, reliable and nice to use.
Safe, inexpensive, or lightweight. Pick two.
If lightweight and inexpensive it ain't safe
If lightweight and safe it ain't inexpensive
If safe and inexpensive it ain't lightweight
I really appreciate these videos. The other channels who are funded by all the big players seem to never touch these products.
'F' for that front shifter. 🙌🙌🙌 You're doing (the cycling) god's work with this endurance testing - I swap bikes too much and don't do enough riding these days. My sensah groupset ended up on my indoor trainer bike, anecdotally its still going strong but hard to guesstimate how many shifts it's done. Currently riding the Sensah GRX grouspet... it's 1x so it should survive! Hahaha.
I didn't know they did a 1x!
How’s the SRX holding up? I’d love to see your review
I'm running Empire 1x11 with modded RD-M8000, which probably also means a bit higher cable tension, haha. Maybe will check the shifter for lubrication, but there is definitely some on the ratchets.
China Cycling, good to see you watch other Cycling UA-camrs, you rock! Now, may I suggest or request, seeing that Luke suffered this failure, and Sensah sent you two sets of their 12-speed Groupset,... please lend/gift Luke one the sets to review. Thanks in advance.
Sensh's official store has updated the products with that piece of aluminum 🙏🏼
As someone who works in manufacturing I'm impressed your analysis of why they made the broken part out of plastic and what they could have done. You are completely correct.
Awesome, good to know! Thanks for the comment KC
Additionally to my comment from a few days ago, I've been running the Empire groupset for a while now and I have to say it's excellent quality and innovative too. The shift mechanism is excellent using only one lever to change up and down.
And as previously mentioned, your front mech was mounted incorrectly which was putting too much strain into the mechanism and increasing the chances of jamming the chain when shifting.
With the front mech mounted higher the shift is smooth and soft.
WOW!! Was about to finally pull the trigger on this groupset. Was procrastinating for ages, and let a very good priced set of 105’s go past, because I finally decided that Sensah was alright based on all the online “reviews”. Today I finally decided to purchase the Sensah, when this video came online. Saved at the 11th hour. Thanks for taking one for the team Luke!!
I just received the Sensah Empire Pro and I'm happy to report that this part seems to be made of aluminum on my shifters.
Ha really. I also have empire pro and it made of plastic both shifters
I just got the pro... The 12s Cassette does not seem to quite fit on the hub... the locking ring does not lock. It is ruining my whole build and I don't know what to do! Did you not have this problem?
@@robertjohnkemp Make sure you get the cassette rings oriented correctly. I initially thought it would be a tight fit, but it turned out nicely.
So happy to see on GCN!!! Well done and well deserved!
Ppl often forget the not everyone is loaded with money plus the fact that we all should enjoy the ride and forget about what you're riding!
Again, WELL DONE!
Excellent video Luke! Thanks for the info.. I was watching a video from GCN about Chinese carbon frames and it would be awesome seen you in a video with them.. everyone was asking for that in the comments hehe 👍🏻keep the good work
Ha, thanks Antony. Yeah I saw the comments. It would be awesome to do a colab with GCN, but not sure their sponsors would be too happy about it....
Trace Velo Zipp would be eyeing your wheels with malice
@@TraceVelo GCN did a collab with Hambini in the past, so it's not entirely out of the question...
Reviews like this are the most important reviews. Helping people save money will help more people get into the sport. Good on ya I'll be watching more. 🇦🇺👍
I have the older gray version that I've been riding about a year now with no problems. However, I'll certainly take your advice about reducing tension on the FD.
Good point about the broken campag shifter lever - I had this problem once (Chorus 11) but worked out that it was down to my poor installation of the Front mech. Once sorted, no more problems.
oh boy.. my Sensah groupset 2x11 is on the way :( Wish me luck! Keep making the great vids!
Me too! I'm online right now looking for a tiagra derailleur.
@Lex Man I'm not Aaron D'Angelo, but am willing to explain my purchase.
I'm building a cheap Chinese carbon bike because I don't have thousands to spend on a new bike and I want some of that sweet, sweet carbon. However, a "reputable" company's frameset is out of my price range.
I have had steel and aluminum in the past. Right now, I ride a steel frame, single speed, track bike (free wheel with brakes these days, I'm not sooo insane anymore) as a commuter because it's indestructible.
I have ordered the Sensah Empire 2x11 for this new build. Why?
I used to be the guy that said, "everything coming from China is crap." I felt this was justified because all the crappy products I had bought were from China. But, that's what they said about Japanese products back in the day, too (I am old enough to remember). And now look at them.
I own a 55" TCL, Chinese brand, 4K TV that I really like and have had no problem with for two years now. I own many other Chinese products that I really like. There's still a lot of Chinese crap.
Most of the bicycles sold by major brands are made in Asia/China. Ok, the engineering may be done elsewhere, but I'm sure the skill-set of actually putting the pieces together is all in those factories.
My perspective has changed.
Do I feel anxiety about purchasing from companies that I don't know? HELL YEAH. But I am more confident now. I contact each company and it I get quick feedback, I feel more trust for them.
I'm glad to watch Trace Velo give his poor experience with this product. I jumped online to order a Shimano derailleur. Hopefully, they'll make improvements.
So, yeah, I am always looking for a deal and sometimes it bites me in the ass, but I have a friend that always buys only the best of anything (stereo equipment, etc) and he gets his ass bitten too. It's just more expensive for him.
However. . . ask me how I feel in a year or two 😂
@@jgreenjeans you're going to enjoy your sensah, i have it as well on my 2nd bike and due to some research before buying i knew the f.d. is not that good, so i bought the version with just the levers and rear derailleur and a R7000 105 f.d.. On my other bike i have an entire Ultegra/Dure-Ace mix and the difference is minimal, def not worth it if you're not racing on high level. I have CSC carbon 50mm deep 12K twill finish wheels since a month aswell from china and even after a hard crash they are fine, few scratches.
I enjoy all your videos Trace. Keep em coming!
Thanks Damogan 🙏 I always look for your comments on videos these days!
When you get them you should grease the internals. I have done 4000km w/o shifting issues. Paired with SRAM Force 22 and SRAM GX 10 speed. I have another bike using the same shifters with the Sensah RD but changed the FD too SRAM. Use the small screwdriver to remove the shifter faceplate to lob grease into them before installing.
Any chance of a video demonstrating this?
He should? If it really needs greasing, the producer should have done it
@@rafaz.695 There is grease in it. Just now enough.
ua-cam.com/video/ADJhvOUc2w4/v-deo.html
This is my video of the internals. Grease every spring and mech with a tiny artist paintbrush. This is before greasing. There are 3 Phillips screws holding the plate down.
ua-cam.com/video/ExMRuUNmhKQ/v-deo.html This is my Sensah Empire shifting SRAM GX 10s. Front derailleur is a Force 22 with GRX FC-R600 2x10 crank 46/30. Cassette is XT 11-42t. This is a touring bike.
The 80's retro intro is the best part of your show
Might be interesting to get it 3D printed in alu/carbon, and attempt a repair
Isn't it too much of worry, to be reprinting the whole chinese designs? This one was just first to fail. You must admit, it does not stop there.
Good to see reviews/tests of these cheap Chinese offerings. I have been put off them recently. I bought two carbon seatposts from Ebay. One in-line the other offset. Unbranded, from two different sellers (both based in China, but dispatch from the UK). Both seatposts looked like they were probably made in the same factory. Both really light, but looked solid enough, although the saddle fittings, made of a light alloy, were clearly low quality. Anyway, used the in-line post on my turbo trainer bike. Seemed fine. Checked it after 12 weeks. The carbon had cracked badly/disintegrated on one side of the post, about 2 cm below the seatpost clamp, i.e where you wouldn't notice it unless you removed the seatpost. < 5 nM torque. On UK roads I think this would have failed quickly, possibly immediately (pothole) Switched to the offset post. Checked this one after two days use, again on the turbo trainer. 1 cm split in the carbon, same place. Thanks for the video. Keep up the good work.
Keep up the entertaining edits!
Thanks Thomas. I feel like I could have put some more effort into the intro, but i just wanted to get this one out as fast as possible, as i know a few people were considering buying this groupset after my last vid!
I absolutely love it!
I was thinking of buying a Sensa SRX to install on my gravel bike... well...no more. Now I have no confidence is Sensah bike parts. Thank you!
My left Ultegra shifter failed in the exact same way (if I understand the mechanics correctly) two or three years ago, so this is something that happens, although usually after a long period of usage.
I had my left/front derall. shifter snap 2 weeks ago Ultegra as well! It was about 6 years old but on a bike not use that often!
Hey Luke...I am a Campy aficionado and Campy's small lever is for the down shifting from large CR to the Small one. And doesn't require a whole lot of pressure. Minimal at best because the derailer spring does the work so not sure what your fan was doing to snap the small lever on the Campy. Either maintenance neglect or pushing way harder then required. I ran 10bsp Record Campy for thousands of miles in over a decade and not once did I have shifter issue, other than the usual wear ( in which case I rebuilt the shifters) but as of today they are still on a road through a friend of mine that is still using them.
China cycling recently reviewed the 12 speed new sensah empire with the improved front derailleur, what about trying that?
Yeah, this has kinda put me off Sensah for the time being. But still, something about that 12 speed life... Super alluring
Noooo, don't go off. Your group set series is super entertaining, I am thinking of buying 1x11 cx set.
@@TraceVelo You have to do it! The allure of 12 speed is too powerful to resist! Don't be coy you know it's true
Reggie, you may be right my man. The Sensah Empire Pro haunts my dreams at night...
@@TraceVelo You know you want to.
This is a terrific video--thank you for sharing your experience! As a counterpoint, I have ridden Sensah Empire 2x11 for about 3000 miles with no issues whatsoever. However, I did as Joe at China Cycling suggested (and you discovered), and I used a different front derailleur. In my case, it is a Campagnolo Super Record, and it actually produces the best front shifting I have ever experienced. Plus I love the fact that 75% of my group costs less than a replacement spring for the other 25%. Why not try your own suggestion, and report back how you make out? At $89, two Sensah shifters and a rear derailleur are less than a single Shimano 105 shifter. And if it doesn't work out ... your failures are much more interesting than your successes. Thanks again for the super video!
Recently I commented on you video. My opinion was as follows;
"your front mech was mounted incorrectly which was putting too much strain into the mechanism and increasing the chances of jamming the chain (and snapping as a result) when shifting"
And I added, based on my experience of the Group;
"With the front mech mounted higher the shift is smooth and soft"
I also pointed out that Sensah have actually improved Sram's shifting mechanism by condensing everything into one lever rather than two.
It would be awesome to get a reply stating your opinion on my analysis because I think the Empire Group is absolutely excellent and I feel that by giving a bad review, people will miss out on a stunning bit of kit!
congratulations with your invite by GCN! Love all your video's!
Nice to see you on GCN!!! Recognition!!!
Just wanted to say, thank you for your videos! I appreciate the style of cinematography you do and as always love the content!
I've been using empire for over a year, racing it internationally, through it on planes and cars and have had zero issues yet. Certainly compared to other groupsets (not even taking price into account) myself or others have not had more issues or questions than any other brand. Unfortunate for you. We have a bunch of people and friends now using Sensah. Will keep an eye on that part from now on though.
Are you a spokesman for them or what?
Same here have had my 2019 brifters for 6mos or so and just under 100miles with no issues. I use them with Shimano RD and FD and work great.
on second thought my left brifter does not require a ton of force like you mention. maybe the install and cable set up added to the issue? Cable bend around the bar set up and or routing to your FD?
@@monzadh I've used mine for over 30 000k. Yours should be fine for quite some time still :D
Thanks for letting us know about this problem. When I get mine, I will use my ultegra front derailleur.
It works sweet with Ultegra fd
Never mediocre Mr Velo.. :) and DAMN ! investigate Trace is very exciting.. keep up the good work and stay safe :D
Thanks @tinMan, glad you liked my crummy video!
@@TraceVelo Luke, you take the hits so we don't have to.. our hero :D
@@TraceVelo you should try out claris i know its 8 speed but its good trust me
Hello mate, I just started watching you randomly and this video was too perfect...I'm living and riding in Taiwan and I've had the same issue with my Sensah groupset. I took a little fall and the shifter just exploded in tiny little plastic pieces. The shifting was super smooth and I was blown away by it, but the quality is definitely on the low side. Anyways, really enjoying your videos. Great job and best of luck!!! 😎🤙
Hope you are ok Goran from the fall.
As a Chinese I really am disappointed that we are still making things like this. It could be lethal if some mechanical parts with the braking went wrong.
Hou Felix - ‘Made In China” is considered a bad thing in the US. Not entirely deserved, lots of high quality products are made there. Business in China is so ruthless that cutting corners is normal. There’s always someone who demands it cheaper and there’s always someone willing to make it that way. You end up with a race to the bottom in quality. This will probably change with the younger generations. In my experience, it’s the older Chinese that demand things for cheap. “You get what you pay for.”
@@ClockworksOfGL Yes I generally agree with you. The cost is one essential factor that the Chinese corporations decision makers care about. The market positioning is also a big problem. You see, most Chinese people believes "You get what you pay for", so "This is cheap, and it gotta be low quality, I would not by it". In fact there are some manufactors trying very hard to make real good things. Take Vortex wheels for example, anyone who bought it is satified with the performance. However, they are equally priced as the campagnolo bora wto. So, a lot of people would say, at this price, why I have to buy this "made in china" thing? There is prejudice, and lacking of credit. So, it is very difficult for the small manufacturers, especially new ones to balance the cost and quality. We are making progresses, but really not so fast in the civil technology.
I still can't believe your country is working with usa democrats and invented the coronavirus just to hurt Trump,that's very sad and bad UwU
Hey Luke! Thanks for making this channel! I've watched every video except the full bike build.
I was about to settle for a Specialized Allez with Claris, but you inspired me to look more for carbon at my budget and I ended up getting a Nashbar Carbon 105 off Craigslist. I was happy to find out it was a Taiwan made frame and It's way better then my 4130 fixed gear.
I think it’s worth pinning a comment @tracevelo explaining how Sensah has since resolved this issue with an upgraded alloy part
Know where I can find the latest iteration, give it a shot.
I bought the same Sensah Groupset. And when it will arrive I will isntall it with a Tiagra Front Derailleur (which I do have laying around). THX for the info!
The hands of time will tell/the power is in your sands
Did the company send you any response? Are they going to send you a replacement?
😂
Trace Velo Thanks for a fantastic channel. I rode extensively from 13-30 years of age, starting on road bikes and ending up on mountain bikes. But my dream Bianchi bike was stolen, and unable to afford to replace it, I foolishly stopped riding totally. Now 62, I need to start riding again and so have taken a great interest in video channels, yours being one of my favourites for its sincerity and down to earth approach (no need to be self-deprecating you know :) ).
It would be fascinating and very useful if you could consider doing a video describing how, based on your current understanding of cheaper components, you would build an ideal bike for the lowest reasonable cost but with the focus being on the greatest result in terms of performance and safety - for example, you might seriously recommend a Chinese carbon frame and other parts, but not the pedals or groupset or whatever. This way, viewers should be able to design their (almost) perfect bike within a reasonable budget (cough) but not a premium budget (cough, cough, choke)...
Keep up the great work mate!
Great vid as always, Luke Sad to hear of the failure, you should contact Sensah specially having found another owner who had a similar problem, this is bad design and they should refund or send you a new one, at the least.. in theory, parts like that which are under great and constant tension should be undergo tests of thousands of cycles, like 10 ou 100k shifts, to make sure the parts and the system as a whole is sturdy enough and can sustain months/years of suffering.. but then again, this is another part that increases the costs, not only the material but doing less quality tests and approving the part with fewer cycles would save some money - and is one of the main problems with China components, they can work well but probably will not last long
Stefano Bellote well there’s a reason comparable group sets from established brands cost 3x. In my experience if you buy a quality product it will outlast you. Sure cogs, chains will wear out over time, but they are designed to be replaceable. Cheers.
Yikes. thanks for posting this. I am currently at 1500+km with my Empire groupset. Maybe 30% of it on gravel. I have never liked the front shifting and can see why this happened. I am going to dig up a shimano FD for sure, before this happens to me. The other change to the groupset I did was a SRAM GX 10speed long cage RD. It works perfect with this 11 speed groupset and allows me to run a 11-40 XT cassette out back, as well as have clutch.
A really interesting analysis. Could you determine what type of plastic that part was moulded from?
Not entirely sure, but its definitely glass fibre reinforced. But even so, clearly wasnt strong enough!
@@TraceVelo jb weld
@@TraceVelo Thanks for that! I was wondering if it was GF reinforced but clearly there was some sort of stress concentration that was not accounted for
It seems that the o ring joint is not strong enough to absorb the torque forces on each shift. Plastic on high stress point is always going to be dicey. Just check out Shimano and Campagnolo, you don't really see much plastics in those places.
Thanks for the review Luke! I have decided to buy the sensah empire groupset for my bike, but instead of using a different front derailleur, such as the shimano claris R2000 because of it’s older pull ratio (1:1) and it’s ability to be replaced quite easily, 20$ below.
It’ll work perfectly. I’m using Shimano fd with sensah gear. It’s a1
Lasrach Tech. , good to hear! The order has not yet come but i’m honestly looking forward to the entire groupset.
Damn it! I just bought the shifters and front and rear derailleurs to put on my smart trainer bike. Luckily I have an Ultegra shifter and front derailleur lying around so maybe I'll use those.
Yeah, i would def reccomend it. The shifting at the rear has been fine, just the front that gave me issues!
Use the Sensah shifters but Shimano fd. Works sweet
SRAM have a very similar component in their doubletap shifters, it's a. Die-cast part and is also prone to failure, often in the RH shifter due to seeing a lot more use.
I was looking for this in the comments. It's really a flawed design found in sram too.
I broke a sram force one
very true, cast parts are usually worse than plastic. They should put a metal loop inner and mould the plastic around it.
Out of curiosity, have you tried contacting Sensa and letting them know the problem and that you have a fairly popular channel? They may be willing to at least send you a replacement to see if it happens again.
I agree that it will be only be fair if Sensah goes out to assist him with a replacement or some form of compensation for the failure.
Sorry to see this Luke. GCN were discussing Chinese frames & a number of us commented that they should contact you for a feature on Chinese equipment. Hopefully they will.
I live in the mountains and use my front derailleur A LOT! I'll definitely steer clear of this.
I love your honest reviews. They show clearly what money gets you and where to be a cheapskate.
However on these complicated mechanics I’d rely on quality. Seen what Shimano 105 nowerdays is able to get you (felt near no differences to my ultegra from last gen) for about 300€ i think there’s more value for money to make
Watching you shift up tells me that your front mech could do with being mounted slightly higher up as there is too much of a possibility of jamming the chain....leading to failure.
I bought a campy groupset just like the one you showed, got a great deal due to broken front shifter lever. I put it on my one-by bike and its perfect 👌
Brilliant vid as always. Are you going to brave the used market to replace the groupo or is it back to tiagra for you
Well, I actually found a pretty amazing deal on a set of 105 R7000 shifters. So back into Shimano town for me!
@@TraceVelo Doesn't your warranty cover it?
Regarding the broken piece of plastic. To produce a plastic piece by injection moulding you still need a casting die. The price is somewhat equivalent to produce a high pressure die casting tool for aluminium. The difference lies in the material cost and the slightly longer cycle time for the aluminium and some fettling operations afterwards. But it won't be that more expensive.
Really, good to know. Makes me wonder why Sensah never chose to make it out of aluminium then... They must have really been working to bring the cost for manufacturing as low as possible...
Sensah need to hear this! They made fail product and if they still want to stay in the business, they need to improve! Too bad for startup doing blunder like this.
they did, they reacted on twitter and about a week later their product page was reviewed and they changed it for a metal piece
I have just received my Empire Pro groupset and the shifter triggers are all made of alloy as reported. I have made an unbox clip so you can see yourself about it.
Also, I have been told by Alan Xiao of Sensah that buyers of faulty components can get a free replacement. They will need to contact their seller directly to arrange a replacement. So Luke, maybe there is hope for you to get things worked out. Good luck!
So, the Sensah is fine if you just use some other company’s stuff.
Here’s hoping! I ordered a 2x9 Sensah but will be using with Ultegra FD/RD. I hope this makes sensah
I got the 1X12. Its been 2 months now and probably 600 Km and its still good. I love and it doesn't look like its going to break ( Fingers crossed). If it breaks I just buy a new one which means Im staying with this Sensah forever.
did you ever get a refund or something? I just bought a new set from the official store (at least that is it's name on AliX) and they changed the part to aluminium :)
A hand 🖐🏻 for consumer journalism! Well played Luke. I’d like to see Sensah’s response - they gotta sort this one out. I’m still angling for their SRX GS for a gravel build - it’s a 1 x 11 😉
WHAT IS THE OTHER BUILD YOU MENTION YOU'RE DOING!!?! 🤓
IF the derailleur has a high limit screw, perhaps set it by backing it WAY out, to guarantee that it is NOT actually limiting it's travel, which in turn may reduce the maximum cable tension. Then tighten it to the point at which it only JUST starts to limit the travel, and then back it off again a whisker.
If you tie Luke's hands, he won't be able to speak. 🌝
Been running Sensah Empire for about 500km on a Trek 1500 SLR from 2006. It was taking a lot of effort to shift the FD from small to big ring so I readjusted and but still couldn’t improve it.
I swapped it out for an Ultegra 6800 Fd and it works sweet.
My bike has external cabling.
So far, the Sensah (with Ultegra fd) is the best shifting groupset I’ve used. And I’ve had all levels of Shimano mechanical setups + SRAM Force.
Really hope it’s durable.....
time to upgrade to... Sensah empire pro hahah
Ha! I mean to be fair, I am still tempted to give it a go...
@@TraceVelo the Pro version supposedly has a massively improved front mech
I have now used Sensah Empire, Sensah SRX 1 X 11 group and also a Sensah 1 x 10 MTB Group. They are all very good parts.
This is so sad
I know! I was super bummed out when it broke. I had high hopes for this groupset!
The Sensah lever blade is an *exact* copy of the Shimano. I had both of them 3D scanned for a product I was working on. They were identical to the 0.1mm.
I see Sensah has acknowledged the issue on twitter and says the item is under warranty and they are replacing with a metal part - fancy taking another one for the team Luke?? twitter.com/AlanXia32692058/status/1285206528501223424?s=19
Holy shit, that's crazy!!!! I need to drop them a line and get another sample! Thanks for the comment dude 👌👌👌
So this is easily replaced with a metal part if broken or does it need to be returned to china?
@@nnkk7742 they will send you a new set of levers
To much blah blah blah, man! Just e-mail Sensah and the warranty will work, simple as that. I have seen dozens of Shimano and Campy broken as this (off course not for just hundreds of miles), but costumer reviews, complaints and feedbacks will improve the manufacturing skills of Sensah. It's great for cycling community relly on a new brand. The Empire shifiting solution is awesome, very responsive, as smooth as Dura Ace, precise. Hope the warranty program covers your broken part.
Front derailleur shifter cable tensions are high. Have had problems with with the Front derailleur sliding down on frame's mounting bracket, no matter how tight, even tried carbon paste. On a couple builds, I have had to use a spacer inside that space between the derailleur mounting bolt and the inside-bottom of the mounting bracket. To block that space, and check the derailleur's downward movement. New build, monitor and keep derailleur cage adjustment close to 3mm above chainring.
Great honest review. The same thing happened to me on a 105 front shifter.
Great review. Straight to the point!
Hey I just bought the updated version. They actually updated the arm into aluminum instead of brittle plastic which is great.
It's time. All outcomes are pointing to a 1x. Embrace the change Luke. Just do it!
Thanks for the review Luke! Love to see you review the Microshift Arsis groupset - another reasonable alternative........
Love the content. Very balanced views.
I've had a few Chinese framesets without issues but never shifters and mechs (preferring to use Shimano).
As well as the metal part in the lever, as you mention, the lever part of the front mech is critical. Interesting to note that part on the Campy groupset was very similar to the Sensah...
Quick tip, dont use the 4700 front mech because it's 10 speed and is built wider to cope with the wider 10sp chains. Use a 105 - 5800, it's an 11 speed front mech and you won't risk jammed chains between your chain rings, and it's only £5 to £10 more
I have had SRAM Force and Apex groupsets, The Apex equipped bike had a similar problem but instead of the left shifter breaking it worked it's way through several cable inners. You mention a couple of possible causes and some solutions. I'd also add that overly tight cable routing can be an issue and that shifting against the limiter can also cause too much tension on the cable.
Front gears can be setup over tensioned which might lead to having to wind in the limits to avoid spilling the chain. Ultimately a bad design and poor choice of materials in manufacture.
It's a shame they chose to clone the SRAM system rather than the Shimano.
Luke- good video. Very nice documentation of the issue. My take on this is that Shimano has already solved these issues and developed superior products. Just pay them and reward the OG innovators. No need to feed copycats and deal with their mistakes.
Thanks for the video. I use this group on 2 of my 1X bikes, no issues in over a year, I prefer it over my other Ultegra setup. I can't comment on the left shifter as I don't use it (for shifting) So maybe for the 1X users out there this could be an option.
A Shimano barend shifter for the front derailleur is cheap, bomb proof and very easy to activate. I use a Shimano 11 sp. brake/shift lever for the rear but a barend shifter for front. No issues.
I've been using mine on the trainer/Zwift with no issues as i bought this groupser last year to replace my 10 speed campy groupset. Ive been very pleased with it and have had no issues.......knock on wood. Ive taken it outdoors for several weeks now and still no issues. Hopefully wont have any. On a good note could always buy another shifter. I wonder if it's because of the angle of the cable which could determine how hard it has to pull.
Can't believe I ordered sensah Chinese group set from your original recommendation !
Random tip - you know those little soy sauce plastic fish you get with sushi, rinse one out, fill it with lube and chuck it in your saddle bag. Then when the days comes where you've forgotten to lube your chain but are already running late for the group ride, or where your Sensah Empire front derailleur needs lubing, you're sorted.
My god... This is such a freaking good idea! What a cracking suggestion, gonna raid the bin for Wednesday sushi now!!! 🍣💯
I had the exact same faliure on some SRAM force levers circa. 2010 went through 3 sets of those levers on warranty in one year.. The piece was alluminium in those still was very fragile. SRAM red at the time had titanium internals so I was told anyway. I managed to haggle an upgraded to them after the 3rd faliure and never had the issue again..
Exactly the same happened to me. Same failure twice. Got a free upgrade the third time.
I bought a used set of Rival shifters recently and the right hand one had this failure. I returned them, bought a new set and the new ones have a much beefier mechanism.
Has anyone tried the EC90 carbon seatpost from AliExpress? Was thinking about trying it out
Love mine...no issues
Im running the sensah empire pro group set but using my original Tiagra front derailleur which seems to be working out pretty well. It shifts smooth with very little effort and I can go from little to big ring with one push.
Nice, good to know!
It appears that the wire is routed in front (improper) of the stop on the front derailleur, instead of behind. While I do not know if this is actually how the wire is supposed to route, I can say that if it were a Shimano (FD) it would in fact go behind. The significance is that it would require less force to move the front derailleur ( less strain on the shifter) if it had been routed behind, even though I can't say that the shifter would/ would not still have broken.
I design, build, and test different types of products in different industries for a living. One of the many things I've learned over the years is the importance of testing and evaluation of materials ,critical parts and components of any system and an entire system. I believe that the reason groupsets by Shimano, Campagnolo, and SRAM are so expensive is because of their research and development programs and the brilliant engineers that work to make sure that these products are capable to perform at the competitive levels of bicycle racing. If there is anything I can say is that whenever a product, system, materials, adhesives or composite layup has not been evaluated by a testing facility to meet certain standards of performance for a specific application in any field there will be no guarantees to the integrity of components or a system to perform at the level required to avoid catastrophic failures when life and property are at stake. It is my opinion that if you plan to ride a bicycle subjecting it to high speeds and a torturous environment daily that you DON"T USE NON-CERTIFIED COMPONENTS OR SYSTEMS or NON-QUALIFIED products if you want to reduce the chance of injury to yourself and others. Sometimes lighter or cheaper is not better. We all know that cheaper usually means lower quality. Have a fun and safe ride! Be cautious, wear all your protective gear in case of a fall or catastrophic failure...
So, manufacturer tips: Use a lighter gauge spring for the front derailleur and/or figure out better design for leverage. Consider a plastic composite (Some tire levers have a glass fiber composite, which makes them super tough for all those high tension tire removal jobs), or maybe you can cast it from metal with a small amount of drilling rather than full CNC?
That Campagnolo shifter could have been stiffer if carbon fiber was part of the plastic injection.
With those brands it is better buy the second version. I have a Java bike mount with mircoshift. The groupset is very good and the customer atention is also stunning!
Just upgraded my Tiagra 4700 to 105 5800 because the Front Shifter failed but it had been fine for 18 months or so ~ 25,000-30,000km. All brands fail but some are better quality and last longer...