you all probably dont give a shit but does anyone know a tool to log back into an instagram account..? I somehow forgot my account password. I love any tricks you can offer me
It was truly awesome to see you on GCN Tech Luke !!! I really hope it gives your channel the MEGA SUBSCRIBER BOOST it so richly deserves :D now, back to watching you talk about my next purchase. :D
Cheers tinMan! Yeah was a proper milestone moment for me. But honestly, BIG PROPS to you guys for spamming the comments to get me on the show in the first place! Was so freaking cool!!!
The nylon (or other polymer) inner race will entirely negate any advantage that ceramic bearings *might* theoretically, possibly, temporarily, might have had. As soon as you put a load on those bearings the hard ceramic balls will cut (wear) away at the race, even without grit acting as a grinding paste. My guess why they don't have seals is a) cost, but also b) so they don't have the friction that the seals cause. As most of the friction in (good) bearings is from the seals and also the lubricant, the rolling friction is usually low between ball and race, but that requires both surfaces to be very hard.
Yeah, the nylon race just completely wore out. I think you're right about the seals aswell. From a general consumer perspective, if the jockey wheel spins freely, then it would seem to be good. If they had seals, they def wouldnt spin as easily.
I'm sure Hambini would agree. If you want longevity then have the seals in place. If you want low friction, then have no seals and run a light lubricant. You can't have both. You would probably get descent low friction results by taking the seals off a non-ceramic jockey wheel compared to a ceramic one.
Exactly what I would have said. In fact, I believe the bearing would probably perform better if the balls were from nylon as well, since they wouldn't wear out the race like that. I believe they don't put seals in there so people who are fooled into buying them give them a spin and go "wow!" and comment on how great they are. By the time they notice they are worn out and probably rubbing on the caps the whole time (if they notice at all), it's too late. Don't buy fancy expensive (or cheap) metal jockey wheels. Get some Ultegra ones, they have sealed bearings (certainly of higher quality than the chinese ones) and never wear out. Possibly 105 are also built like that. Delrin or some other type of plastic is the appropriate material for jockey wheels as it dampens the noise of the chain rattling across them. Metal jockey wheels are just stupid.
Normally the ball bearing should have same material on the balls and the rims. Any difference in hardness would cause high wearing. But yep, ceramic rims are much more expensive than the balls in small diameter.
I put some of these sealed bearing jockey wheels on my 1983 Super Record rear mech, the difference was astounding. From the originals with the bushes for bearings. To me $10 well spent. Plus they were GOLD...LOL.
I discovered whispering asmr completely by accident when I was at university. There were two girls whispering in the library and I was listening. It was really relaxing, so I looked on UA-cam for videos of people whispering when I got home. I didn't even know it was a thing. Used to listen to multiple tabs of whispering at the same time. Crazy times. I met my girlfriend a couple of years later who asked me if I was into it. Turned out she was too. She used to watch tiny cooking videos. The crunchy jockey wheels sound a lot like stirring in a tiny bowl.
You're absolutely right. Rubber seals create a slight friction drag on bearing rotation and in high-speed applications, they can even wear the seal and cause seal contaminants to enter the bearing. A better alternative would be to have a non-contact metal shielded bearing, many times having the zz or 2z suffix, or using a non-contact rubber shield made by NSK. Ceramic bearings are kinda a gimmick anyhow, they were introduced in the industrial bearing world as a replacement for electric motor bearings because they wouldn't allow electricity to pass through to the shaft of the motor. Bearing steel is already one of the hardest steels out there.
The more expensive aftermarket jockey wheels do, but they cost 2-4 times as much as the ones he tested in the vid. Stylrtop for example sells aluminum jockey wheels on Amazon for $11 that have 689-ZZ bearings and look much more solidly constructed.
Mine too, the fun factor combined with original openings and presentation. Also the information in an honest way with again a good sense of absurd humor ! All hail our fearless leader, as Lantern Rouge would say about Remco Evenepoel.
Your channel is amazing. I’m considering getting into cycling and I really like the idea of building your own bike and tinkering. Hope your channel grows a lot!
love your user perspective of the Ali express stuff - as well as the great humour. There's some very good value and decent quality out there - as well as some real junk. Your channel allows the bargain hunters here to go in with open eyes and informed. Cheers
Placed an order for cheap aluminium jockey wheels just before your video came out but bought the steel balled version. Have now received and fitted. Bike now back to changing gear properly with no missed sprockets on the cassette. Maybe slightly louder but not by much.
The Chinese manufacturers probably leave the seals off so that people who try a 'spin test' first thing out of the package don't immediately leave negative reviews or return them. It will take several rides before people realize the bearings are completely shot... usually too late to bother by that point.
Not long before watching this video I ordered cheap ceramic bearing ones - or so I thought. After watching the video I rushed to see if I can still cancel the order, but it turned out I actually ordered a regular sealed bearing set. Must be some sort of bicycle guardian angel in action
Having used both types of bearing in alloy jockey wheels, my own findings are similar - but not exactly the same - as reported here. The ceramic 'open' type does attract grit, but a dose of lube keeps them fairly clean in my experience, much like chain lube, it pushes grit to the outside. The sealed type does bed-in quickly and spin almost as freely as the ceramic after a few rides, so yeah agree there. One benefit he didn't cover was the gear indexing. The standard plain-bearing in an OEM jockeys have a LOT of free play 'slop' effecting gear indexing. Either type of alloy wheel has very little side-to-side play (the video exaggerates the opposite to my experience). This ridged tracking of the jockey allows for more authoritive gear changes and thus indexing consistency. The other point is sound, they do create more drive-chain sound - note not more drag, they actually offer less resistance, but you do hear gear changes more as its metal-on-metal. For the money - give them a try, and while you're at it look to go up a few teeth on the bottom wheel if you can 😉
Yeah, haven't done that with my 105 yet. But I did with the claris I used to have and damn! Was it akways way to crispy of changing gears, for such a low price and category
Your videos are hilarious. I watch youtube all the time and these are the only ones to genuinely make me laugh out aloud. Thanks for the great content. Production is top notch
Luke! The guru of affordable bike components! Great Video. I heard a few pros actually remove the seals from their bearings. Must be nice to have a tech who can swap bearings every few days. But for the rest of us, RS it is. Nice Hambini callout.
First video I ever watched on this channel (I'm a MTBer), and i'm very impressed. Congrats on making quality content, you definitely deserve more subs!
The '6' in the bearing reference defines the bearing type (radial contact deep groove ball bearing) and the 8 the cross section, 9 the bore size. I think they will have left the seals off so the bearing feels more free spinning. The only reason you get a noticiable reduction friction in the ceramic bearing (hybrid) is that there is no grease or seal contact. Hybrid bearings only see a noticable friction benifit at high speeds if lubricated in the same way. Strange to see zircona balls used in a hybrid bearing, Silicon Nitride is more commonly used. Great video and I think ill be sticking to my orginal naff looking jokey wheels for now.
Ben Roberts, dropping some bearing code knowledge into the comments!!! You clearly know your stuff. You are probably right about the seals though. Leaving them off means they will spin freely out of the box. More than enough to fool the average Joe into thinking they got a decent product.
What I did with mine was take the old sealed bearing from my worn Shimano and the side casings and swapped them over onto the meroca wheel and now it's smooth asf
4 seconds in and this is the best video so far!! Love how thorough your work is and sharing other useful sites to improve everyone's awareness. love the comparison of wear , very informative! the jokes are on point! Can a seal be transplanted to get the best of both worlds?
Well my experience has been somewhat been different than yours. I have several bikes with Campagnolo 10 speed gearing. They come from the factory with 10 tooth plastic jockey wheels. The 11 speed ones that Campagnolo uses are 11 tooth and they shift slightly better on the small cogs in my opinion. So as a experiment I ordered some Campagnolo suitable cheap ceramic ones as they have 11 teeth to use on my 10 speed setups. They fit perfectly. After two years of heavy use on now three of my bikes I have been quite pleased. Mine are sold as J&L Ceramic Ceramic Pulleys on eBay for $11.99 U.S. They have the open bearings and have plastic pulley bodies. They are quiet, shift very well and I have had zero issues. I did use a drop of oil on them when installed. The shifting was slightly improved and I felt the chain wrap was slightly better due to the larger diameter. I live in Florida and only occasionally get wet when riding and this may help with the longevity. By the way Campagnolo Super Record 11 has one Ceramic ball pulley and one Ceramic bushing pulley. I have one bike with that setup and the cheap ones work as well as these. The wheels come with no directions. When you install them look at the wheels for rotation and position information molded on the side of them. Like you, I buy Chinese Carbon bits like one piece handlebars , seatposts, computer mounts and seats. Almost everything has been made well and works well without spending a fortune on my hobby. As an aside, the pedals that you tried and didn't like, well I use those also. I have had a positive experience with two pairs of these. I run the black cleats and put the tension right at the middle of the screw. No noise, however they for someone who likes a high clamping force I do not recommend them. The bearings are very smooth and they are easy to use.
Trace Velo never disappoints. Have had the a pair of regular Chinesium jockey wheels on one of my road bikes. They workes nicely. However, as with all alloy jockey wheels, they add a little bit of noise compared to Shimanos "plastic" ones.
Back in the day, upper jockey wheels had lateral float. Maybe only on MTB, as I never had a road bike back then. I had lubricated high end ceramic bearing (from Boca) in a fishing reel. On free spool it could spin over a minute. That knackered bearing sounds like my knees…
Luke, my back ordered Sensah groupsets were mailed out today... on 1 week shipping hold for the new upgraded shifters to arrive at the various AE stores. My AE seller, describes the upgraded shifter as having the "golden gear", time will tell. Tried to push for you to get a replacement set of shifters.... who knows? My first venture into 12 speed, wish me well.
Good video, thank you! I ordered few of this, some are with metal bearings with metal seal, some are with rubber and some are ceramic (it seems open) as you have. I will try them when I get them 👍
I got some Al jockey wheels from Wuzei brand on AliExpress. They came with ceramic balls on steel races (inner and outer). I greased them with blue park tool lube before installing. Super smooth without excessive play after 1500km on my gravel bike.
I LOVE sealed bearings. I live on a dirt road. Dust, mud, grit and stones. And I do large distances. So robustness and lack of maintenance are far more important than low friction. I am amazed that so many components are totally exposed to road muck. Pedal bearing for example. Many motorcycle chains have seals in each link but not pushbike chains. Are bikes merely intended as toys?
Great topic, super informative... I too will go cheap every time. $1600 for derailleur ceramics, who knew? My usual jockey wheel maintenance, sad to say, is... ooops, another sorta accidental shot of Teflon wax-based chain lube. Aliexpress seller messaged today: New Sensah shifters, with the upgraded metal gear, mailed out today to AE sellers. My back ordered groupsets should be sent out in two days.
I did a hack on my rear jockey wheel derailleur "Dura Ace 10 speed", I just remove the internal dust washers(they are very small), I don't envy any ceramic jockey wheels !, the secret is to lubricate all and too the chain with silicone spray ... Please don't use anything else. Clean the chain well with degreaser, then wash it well with water, then dry it ... and then lubricate with Silicone, I use this and I buy it at walmart "WD-40 BIKE LUBE WD40 SPECIALIST SILICONE 11oz AEROSOL" , spray that part twice a week; When you stop pedaling it seems that you have an electric motor pushing the bike. !
8:03 - if those bearings were sealed, they would not spin as freely out of the box. RS bearings have a contact rubber seal which introduces tiny drag to the bearing and an aluminium pulley doesn't have the inertia to overcome it.
I've been using the cheap (sealed) chinese jockey wheels in my MTB and Road bike over 1000s of miles and they've been holding up well, for the price I think they add a nice bit of bling and work absolutely fine.
@@TraceVelo curiously the original Shimano are more expensive here that I though. I was gonna change the jockeys in my Sora training derailleur and they almost cost the same to change the whole rear mech, ended buying a new one for the bike and leaving the old one in my Urban all terrain bike
I bought KCNC $25 eBay, they were regular bearings with rubber seals, but no matter how much I oiled them they always squeaked. I also bought the rear oversized cage, and that had a worse design flaw, in that the spacing shaft that sits between the spring and the fastening bolt, to sit it on the derailleur was not properly spaced like the Shimano original. So when I tightened the bolt to attach it, the pressure from the bolt did not allow the cage to move freely, I had to find a spacer washer that was just small enough to fit there outside the spring but inside the shaft and finally allowed the cage to move freely when tightened to full torque. What a mess, then shifting was below par likely because my makeshift "spacer" was not perfect. What a hassle it was, in the end you pay for the engineering when buying authentic...
I actually bought these jockey wheels. Entirely because they were cheaper than the replacements from SRAM. Don't care that they're ceramic bearings... Kinda hope they're not. Working fine so far on my mountain bike.
The reason why I find Luke's channel better than gcn, it's a everyday practical question most riders will seek to find out.. While gcn is more branded this and that.. Not for the commoners lol 😂🤣
Ceramic is super hard, Nylon and Aluminium is soft. What happens is that the hard bearings destroy the soft race. A seal would only help a small amount. In order for the Ceramic bearing to last it needs a hard race with a proper seal and lubrication as you have said.
My current bike runs on shimano 105 set up is 9 speed 11-25 teeth rear and front is a triple 52 42 30 my question is now the triple crank set seems obsolete what would be the best set up for my new bike front and rear i live in the west pennines and its all up hill round here 😀
Yeah so I would go for a compact crank at the front (50,34) and if you hit alot of hills, maybe go for an 11-32 tooth on the back. But you might also get away with 11-28, which is the setup I currently run. 11 speed if you can, but if you are looking to do it on a budget, I would go for a 10 speed Tiagra 4700 setup. That groupset is bulletproof!
Hello. The seals don't guarantee reliability- quite the opposite. I bought a set of BBB jockey wheels last winter. They have a ordinary 2RS bearings in them- great, I thought. The bike did a season of racing, culminating in one wet TT. I came to service it, some days later, and found the lower jockey wheel was solid- it would not turn. I removed it, then levered the seal off. There was no visible debris, or indeed corrosion, but it would not turn. There was not much grease there, either. I swilled it out with degreaser, and eventually got it moving. I then filled it full of grease, put the seal back, and resolved to check it regularly. That last TT was about 8% slower than usual, so the problem might have been developing for some time. Not good. More recently, I noticed the nearly-new front wheel on my CX bike was similarly horrible. Upon dismantly (opposite of assembly. I hereby initiate a campaign to have that word inducted in to the OED), I noticed that the balls on one side of the wheel were rusted to fk, and the races were also rusty. I replaced the balls, gave the races a scrape and packed it solid with grease. That wheel has lip seals, just like a 2RS bearing. CONCLUSION- Standard engineering seals are not up to the job of sealing bike bearings. You need lots of grease in there. The bike manufacturers don't realise this. Carefully lever the seal off a new one, and stuff grease in. PS Use calcium grease- lithium grease is not waterproof (At least, it wasn't the last time I spoke to a grease expert. He was TD of national oil co, with a PhD in lubrication). You can get calcium grease for a tenner a pot. It is a nice white colour. PPS don't even think of using those fancy perforated jockey wheels for CX. Grass will find a way into the holes, mud will build up in the cage and, if you know about CX, you will know what happens next. I make anti-clogging CX bits, so I know what the enemy looks like! Good luck.
Any chance you tried taking seals from the cheaper set and putting them onto the ceramic set? Seems like the overall diameter is pretty similar so you could possibly seal the ceramic set yourself potentially.
I don't want to be a pedant here but a bike that pedals itself would violate the *first* law of thermodynamics: energy cannot be created or destroyed. The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy cannot decrease. A bike that pedals itself won't decrease entropy.
In my experience in Asia (I work in a bike shop) the cheap ceramic jockey wheels do have seals... however they are still rubbish because grit gets in, the ceramic balls wear out the steel races and the cheap aluminium wheels themselves snap after not much riding. Also the shifting performance is way less then the standard Shimano wheels.
Used and worn out several of these. Usually alu teeth wear out and to prevent risk of collapse i replace them. Spin quite well after long use. 1 time bearing seized completely. agree they are not the best but not bad either
Question - you can get 689-2RS ceramic bearings for around £7 for a pair, what would happen if you put them in the ceramic jockey wheel? Would every single physic paper ever written be instantly invalidated? Enquiring minds want to know.
Luke, Just purchased a cheap China Meilan GPS cycle computer for my new gravel build. Flying blind, could you cover as a topic? So many, not sure which is best... and what they will pair with, models? Have seen these Meilan computers, starting at $19., for a wireless GPS!! Not too shabby. I decided to go hog-wild and spent $24, on mine, mind you, with free shipping! Love my Garmin 520 for my road bike... thinking that my Garmin would find life living on a gravel bike... a little too stressful.
Been waiting for this video for a year now. Can you try buying ceramic bearings from inline skates and replace it? or replace it with like ABEC 7 bearings from skate boards. But, maybe the diameter of the bearings differ on the jockey wheels. A follow up video would be interesting :)
Oh wow I got one of those, last time I checked before replacing the chain they are fine even after hundreds of km. I'll check if they are crunchy now. Might explain why I kept getting dropped by my buddies, you know, any excus~, ehm, explanation counts. edit: nope, mine definitely not crunchy, but not super smooth either, it has quite a bit of play though, I need a new one.
I always use the Meroca ones on my MTB but regular bearing ones on my LTwoo A7 before and currently on my Deore M5120 and you can feel the difference of smoother pedalling. I haven't tried ceramic ones for this reason it can't be sealed.
So I actually have one to test, and yeah the bearings have the same issue. I have some of the sealed bearings spare however, so when I come to use it, I'll swap them out...
@@TraceVelo Awesome! Shame you can't get a ceramicspeed to compare them side by side! You have inspired me to do a bargain carbon build so lots of stuff is coming from aliexpress too
i watched this before and your video about long cage with oversized jockey wheels. i've previously seen the process ceramicspeed use when they build their expensive jockey wheels and in their words they 'glue' the bearing cartridge into the jockey wheel. but since they remain replaceable i'm guessing what they really mean is using something like loctite 641 round the outside of the catridge before inserting it in the jockey wheel.
It'd be sweet to see you team up with Hambini and have him analyze you frame's BB shell and your crankset, I wonder where it would end up on his scale.
Hambini is toxic AF, he shouldn't come anywhere near this channel. Dude is cool when he's talking about bikes but as soon as he gets off topic and starts his rants about women and politics he becomes an absolute cringe lord.
I've never bought any of these particular items, but one of my ali rules is, all the critical standard size bearings get yeeted first thing and replaced by proper ones that i spec depending on use case. And replacements can come from China or they usually come from a local supplier but NEVER from a random vendor, always from a bearing specialist. Not actually expensive.
Haven't you seen the vids on ceramic speeds jockey wheels. They are actually slower in many cases due to weight and offer little advantage. You can get steel bearings with similar rolling resistance and wear down 4 or 5 times as slow for 20 bucks
Superstar doesn't seem to ship to the US, I was going to get some after using the cheapy eBay ones 😵🥺😥 Wonder if I could just swap the seals from the XX1 jockey wheels to the bling ones 🤔🤔🤔
my experience with jockey wheels (MTB): - Old ones (no bearing) are total crap: mud, rust, lots of friction. - Normal with bearings are the best, they spin slower but if you keep it clean on the outside almost need no service. - Cheaper aluminium ones are very good looking and smooth rolling but they require service more often than classic ones. - Cheaper Ceramic are very good only if keep it clean... by blowing or just water, but are very delicate. For me the best are XT-M8000 Pulley wheels, smooth and durable. Ultralight aluminium are hard to clean, and some aren't smooth and too wide for 11 speed chain.
A problem I found with the cheep ceramic jockey wheels is that there is no float on the guide wheel. Took them off straight away because they were noisy and rough.
I am so anxious everytime to see if his name is still Luke.
I amso anxious when I see unsealed bearings on drive train
@@ECsponger2 it aint all peaches and cream baby
you all probably dont give a shit but does anyone know a tool to log back into an instagram account..?
I somehow forgot my account password. I love any tricks you can offer me
@Keegan Gordon Instablaster ;)
@@ECsponger2Your whole chain consists of unsealed bearings.
Havnt even watched the whole thing and can already tell it’s a banger,. This dude really getting me thro lockdown
Wicked cheers Tom... Also loving the profile pic 😉
@@TraceVelo he's outside your flat now...... 😳
Only reason trace doesn’t upload as often is because he’s waiting on Ali express’ slow ass shipping 😂😂
What a legend this bloke is
It was truly awesome to see you on GCN Tech Luke !!! I really hope it gives your channel the MEGA SUBSCRIBER BOOST it so richly deserves :D now, back to watching you talk about my next purchase. :D
WHICH ONE! WHEN?!
Cheers tinMan! Yeah was a proper milestone moment for me. But honestly, BIG PROPS to you guys for spamming the comments to get me on the show in the first place! Was so freaking cool!!!
When the heck was that?!
LINK MAN LINK!!!
wait, which episode i completely missed that.
The nylon (or other polymer) inner race will entirely negate any advantage that ceramic bearings *might* theoretically, possibly, temporarily, might have had.
As soon as you put a load on those bearings the hard ceramic balls will cut (wear) away at the race, even without grit acting as a grinding paste.
My guess why they don't have seals is a) cost, but also b) so they don't have the friction that the seals cause. As most of the friction in (good) bearings is from the seals and also the lubricant, the rolling friction is usually low between ball and race, but that requires both surfaces to be very hard.
Yeah, the nylon race just completely wore out. I think you're right about the seals aswell. From a general consumer perspective, if the jockey wheel spins freely, then it would seem to be good. If they had seals, they def wouldnt spin as easily.
I'm sure Hambini would agree. If you want longevity then have the seals in place. If you want low friction, then have no seals and run a light lubricant. You can't have both. You would probably get descent low friction results by taking the seals off a non-ceramic jockey wheel compared to a ceramic one.
Exactly what I would have said. In fact, I believe the bearing would probably perform better if the balls were from nylon as well, since they wouldn't wear out the race like that. I believe they don't put seals in there so people who are fooled into buying them give them a spin and go "wow!" and comment on how great they are. By the time they notice they are worn out and probably rubbing on the caps the whole time (if they notice at all), it's too late.
Don't buy fancy expensive (or cheap) metal jockey wheels. Get some Ultegra ones, they have sealed bearings (certainly of higher quality than the chinese ones) and never wear out. Possibly 105 are also built like that. Delrin or some other type of plastic is the appropriate material for jockey wheels as it dampens the noise of the chain rattling across them. Metal jockey wheels are just stupid.
Normally the ball bearing should have same material on the balls and the rims. Any difference in hardness would cause high wearing. But yep, ceramic rims are much more expensive than the balls in small diameter.
I put some of these sealed bearing jockey wheels on my 1983 Super Record rear mech, the difference was astounding. From the originals with the bushes for bearings. To me $10 well spent. Plus they were GOLD...LOL.
I request crunchy jockey wheel asmr.
*Whispers into mic* These jockey wheels are crunchy as fuck, bluckle up boys!
I discovered whispering asmr completely by accident when I was at university. There were two girls whispering in the library and I was listening. It was really relaxing, so I looked on UA-cam for videos of people whispering when I got home. I didn't even know it was a thing. Used to listen to multiple tabs of whispering at the same time. Crazy times. I met my girlfriend a couple of years later who asked me if I was into it. Turned out she was too. She used to watch tiny cooking videos. The crunchy jockey wheels sound a lot like stirring in a tiny bowl.
@@TraceVelo they are complete and utter gawbage, nice !!!
You're absolutely right. Rubber seals create a slight friction drag on bearing rotation and in high-speed applications, they can even wear the seal and cause seal contaminants to enter the bearing. A better alternative would be to have a non-contact metal shielded bearing, many times having the zz or 2z suffix, or using a non-contact rubber shield made by NSK. Ceramic bearings are kinda a gimmick anyhow, they were introduced in the industrial bearing world as a replacement for electric motor bearings because they wouldn't allow electricity to pass through to the shaft of the motor. Bearing steel is already one of the hardest steels out there.
The more expensive aftermarket jockey wheels do, but they cost 2-4 times as much as the ones he tested in the vid. Stylrtop for example sells aluminum jockey wheels on Amazon for $11 that have 689-ZZ bearings and look much more solidly constructed.
Steel jockey : we might spin slower, but we last longer
Ceramic wheels: C R O M C H
Trace Velo has become my must-see UA-cam channel - well done Luke!
Cheers Alex!!!
Mine too, the fun factor combined with original openings and presentation. Also the information in an honest way with again a good sense of absurd humor ! All hail our fearless leader, as Lantern Rouge would say about Remco Evenepoel.
I need a carbon chinese road bike now.
The weird thing is that 2 hours ago, before starting watching your videos I didn't.
Welcome to the club. There is no cure. You're doomed.
Its a waste of money
All I can see is fidget spinners rebranded as jockey wheels.
Bruh your creativity is top notch
Cheers Austin!!!
Allways, Luke has his own fun comprehensive glass fiber inforced style. I too do appreciate that
Yeeeees! Long time fan and Chinese carbon lover. Love watching the new videos! You seriously are up there with GCN. Keep doing what you're doing.
There’s no way you don’t do media professionally, this is top class. Can’t wait for when you have 1 million subs!
Your channel is amazing. I’m considering getting into cycling and I really like the idea of building your own bike and tinkering. Hope your channel grows a lot!
thanks for sticking to the bikes and not race baiting like GCN has been lately
maatte your writing just keeps getting better and better!
love your user perspective of the Ali express stuff - as well as the great humour.
There's some very good value and decent quality out there - as well as some real junk. Your channel allows the bargain hunters here to go in with open eyes and informed. Cheers
Placed an order for cheap aluminium jockey wheels just before your video came out but bought the steel balled version. Have now received and fitted. Bike now back to changing gear properly with no missed sprockets on the cassette. Maybe slightly louder but not by much.
The Chinese manufacturers probably leave the seals off so that people who try a 'spin test' first thing out of the package don't immediately leave negative reviews or return them. It will take several rides before people realize the bearings are completely shot... usually too late to bother by that point.
Cup & Cone, I recon you are totally right!!
@@TraceVelo reckon?
@@MatthewAtkinson Did he stutter?
@@MatthewAtkinson did he stutter (2)
I reckon he needed to do some recon on whether he stuttered or not.
Not long before watching this video I ordered cheap ceramic bearing ones - or so I thought. After watching the video I rushed to see if I can still cancel the order, but it turned out I actually ordered a regular sealed bearing set. Must be some sort of bicycle guardian angel in action
Having used both types of bearing in alloy jockey wheels, my own findings are similar - but not exactly the same - as reported here.
The ceramic 'open' type does attract grit, but a dose of lube keeps them fairly clean in my experience, much like chain lube, it pushes grit to the outside. The sealed type does bed-in quickly and spin almost as freely as the ceramic after a few rides, so yeah agree there.
One benefit he didn't cover was the gear indexing. The standard plain-bearing in an OEM jockeys have a LOT of free play 'slop' effecting gear indexing. Either type of alloy wheel has very little side-to-side play (the video exaggerates the opposite to my experience). This ridged tracking of the jockey allows for more authoritive gear changes and thus indexing consistency. The other point is sound, they do create more drive-chain sound - note not more drag, they actually offer less resistance, but you do hear gear changes more as its metal-on-metal. For the money - give them a try, and while you're at it look to go up a few teeth on the bottom wheel if you can 😉
Yeah, haven't done that with my 105 yet. But I did with the claris I used to have and damn! Was it akways way to crispy of changing gears, for such a low price and category
Your videos are hilarious. I watch youtube all the time and these are the only ones to genuinely make me laugh out aloud. Thanks for the great content. Production is top notch
Thanks Fraz! Yeah I put quite a lot of effort into these vids, so really appreciate the comment!!
Great video, as always. Love the shorter duration. Keep it up!
every single video here is top-notch, if it wasn't to such a niche audience base, subscribers should be in the millions
Luke! The guru of affordable bike components! Great Video. I heard a few pros actually remove the seals from their bearings. Must be nice to have a tech who can swap bearings every few days. But for the rest of us, RS it is. Nice Hambini callout.
I've heard the same thing actually. Marginal GAINZ BABY!
First video I ever watched on this channel (I'm a MTBer), and i'm very impressed. Congrats on making quality content, you definitely deserve more subs!
The '6' in the bearing reference defines the bearing type (radial contact deep groove ball bearing) and the 8 the cross section, 9 the bore size. I think they will have left the seals off so the bearing feels more free spinning. The only reason you get a noticiable reduction friction in the ceramic bearing (hybrid) is that there is no grease or seal contact. Hybrid bearings only see a noticable friction benifit at high speeds if lubricated in the same way.
Strange to see zircona balls used in a hybrid bearing, Silicon Nitride is more commonly used. Great video and I think ill be sticking to my orginal naff looking jokey wheels for now.
Ben Roberts, dropping some bearing code knowledge into the comments!!! You clearly know your stuff. You are probably right about the seals though. Leaving them off means they will spin freely out of the box. More than enough to fool the average Joe into thinking they got a decent product.
Dude your videos are much appreciated and you help people like me save money thanks. 👍🇦🇺
No worries dude, happy to help!
I come for the intros and stay for the fantastic content! Keep it up, Trace Velo!
Finally! the wait is over! new video ☀️
i Like the way he perform infront of camera! energize and clear
LISA, IN THIS HOUSE WE OBEY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS
It just keeps getting faster and faster !
What I did with mine was take the old sealed bearing from my worn Shimano and the side casings and swapped them over onto the meroca wheel and now it's smooth asf
What about taking the seals from the steel bearing and putting them in the ceramic bearings???
Unsealed and unlubricated bearings. No wonder they spin so fast when fresh out of the box.
Even steel bearings spin fast if you remove the grease.
Great content, love your sense of humor and the amazing quality of your videos.
Thanks Calfa2x!!!
4 seconds in and this is the best video so far!! Love how thorough your work is and sharing other useful sites to improve everyone's awareness. love the comparison of wear , very informative! the jokes are on point! Can a seal be transplanted to get the best of both worlds?
Well my experience has been somewhat been different than yours. I have several bikes with Campagnolo 10 speed gearing.
They come from the factory with 10 tooth plastic jockey wheels. The 11 speed ones that Campagnolo uses are 11 tooth and they shift slightly better on the small cogs in my opinion.
So as a experiment I ordered some Campagnolo suitable cheap ceramic ones as they have 11 teeth to use on my 10 speed setups. They fit perfectly.
After two years of heavy use on now three of my bikes I have been quite pleased. Mine are sold as J&L Ceramic Ceramic Pulleys on eBay for $11.99 U.S.
They have the open bearings and have plastic pulley bodies. They are quiet, shift very well and I have had zero issues. I did use a drop of oil on them when installed.
The shifting was slightly improved and I felt the chain wrap was slightly better due to the larger diameter. I live in Florida and only occasionally get wet when riding and this may help with the longevity.
By the way Campagnolo Super Record 11 has one Ceramic ball pulley and one Ceramic bushing pulley. I have one bike with that setup and the cheap ones work as well as these.
The wheels come with no directions. When you install them look at the wheels for rotation and position information molded on the side of them.
Like you, I buy Chinese Carbon bits like one piece handlebars , seatposts, computer mounts and seats. Almost everything has been made well and works well without spending a fortune on my hobby.
As an aside, the pedals that you tried and didn't like, well I use those also. I have had a positive experience with two pairs of these. I run the black cleats and put the tension right at the middle of the screw. No noise, however they for someone who likes a high clamping force I do not recommend them. The bearings are very smooth and they are easy to use.
Trace Velo never disappoints. Have had the a pair of regular Chinesium jockey wheels on one of my road bikes. They workes nicely. However, as with all alloy jockey wheels, they add a little bit of noise compared to Shimanos "plastic" ones.
Yeah I found the same thing. The shifting was nice and sharp, but yeah a little noisier.
I have since in the last month bought this oversize carbon hanger and I checked the bearings which now had clear rubber bearing protectors.
Thanks for the heads up.
Back in the day, upper jockey wheels had lateral float. Maybe only on MTB, as I never had a road bike back then.
I had lubricated high end ceramic bearing (from Boca) in a fishing reel. On free spool it could spin over a minute.
That knackered bearing sounds like my knees…
Luke, I have found your channel via GCN and am subbing. Watched all of your clips and they are all pure gold! hahaha, keep it up matey
My congratulations in that boxing analogies.
Ceramic on nylon..... even with seal this is a "worst idea ever" case
Yeah that little jockey wheel did not stand up to the test of time!
Yes exactly, an engineer has obviously not designed that thing
Often those bearings are nylon too.
Luke, my back ordered Sensah groupsets were mailed out today... on 1 week shipping hold for the new upgraded shifters to arrive at the various AE stores. My AE seller, describes the upgraded shifter as having the "golden gear", time will tell. Tried to push for you to get a replacement set of shifters.... who knows? My first venture into 12 speed, wish me well.
Good video, thank you!
I ordered few of this, some are with metal bearings with metal seal, some are with rubber and some are ceramic (it seems open) as you have.
I will try them when I get them 👍
Great video but could you not get a sealed ceramic bearings to put in the over sized cheap wheels
I got some Al jockey wheels from Wuzei brand on AliExpress. They came with ceramic balls on steel races (inner and outer). I greased them with blue park tool lube before installing. Super smooth without excessive play after 1500km on my gravel bike.
Great vid! Always wondered about all those under priced ceramic jockies. Clever comparison.
Hell yeah! great to see you know about Hambini, aged 5
I LOVE sealed bearings. I live on a dirt road. Dust, mud, grit and stones. And I do large distances. So robustness and lack of maintenance are far more important than low friction. I am amazed that so many components are totally exposed to road muck. Pedal bearing for example. Many motorcycle chains have seals in each link but not pushbike chains. Are bikes merely intended as toys?
as a MTB'er, bearings without seals give me the sads. anyway, great work! any chance of you giving an "unbranded" mountain bike build a go?
these have seals and cheap www.ebay.com/itm/383925765240
Great topic, super informative... I too will go cheap every time. $1600 for derailleur ceramics, who knew? My usual jockey wheel maintenance, sad to say, is... ooops, another sorta accidental shot of Teflon wax-based chain lube.
Aliexpress seller messaged today: New Sensah shifters, with the upgraded metal gear, mailed out today to AE sellers. My back ordered groupsets should be sent out in two days.
I did a hack on my rear jockey wheel derailleur "Dura Ace 10 speed", I just remove the internal dust washers(they are very small), I don't envy any ceramic jockey wheels !, the secret is to lubricate all and too the chain with silicone spray ... Please don't use anything else.
Clean the chain well with degreaser, then wash it well with water, then dry it ... and then lubricate with Silicone, I use this and I buy it at walmart "WD-40 BIKE LUBE WD40 SPECIALIST SILICONE 11oz AEROSOL" , spray that part twice a week; When you stop pedaling it seems that you have an electric motor pushing the bike. !
Somebody: Is it Cheap?
Luke: Yes
Somebody: Great?
Luke: Definitely Yessss
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
@@TraceVelo certainly if it's green or carbon, or even better green colored carbon ....
8:03 - if those bearings were sealed, they would not spin as freely out of the box. RS bearings have a contact rubber seal which introduces tiny drag to the bearing and an aluminium pulley doesn't have the inertia to overcome it.
They also spin so smoothly because there is no grease, which is also why they collapse so quickly.
Used a few of the cheaper jockey wheels, the standard bearings can rust but are easy to replace with stainless ones and then go for years
Saved me from wasting my money and time. Thanks Luke!
I see what you did on that bearing pun, and I can't help but feel it was a-pawl-ing. I guess that's just how you roll!
Cheers Luke!
I've been using the cheap (sealed) chinese jockey wheels in my MTB and Road bike over 1000s of miles and they've been holding up well, for the price I think they add a nice bit of bling and work absolutely fine.
Yeah the ones with the sealed bearings are rock solid!
Finally!!! Been looking if pulling the trigger on one of those...
Yeah def stick to the standard non-ceramic ones. They are cheaper, and work like a dream!
@@TraceVelo curiously the original Shimano are more expensive here that I though.
I was gonna change the jockeys in my Sora training derailleur and they almost cost the same to change the whole rear mech, ended buying a new one for the bike and leaving the old one in my Urban all terrain bike
Yeah the official Shimano jockey wheels are pretty pricey. When you can pick up some aluminium ones for £2 on AliExpress, bit of a no-brainer IMO
I bought KCNC $25 eBay, they were regular bearings with rubber seals, but no matter how much I oiled them they always squeaked. I also bought the rear oversized cage, and that had a worse design flaw, in that the spacing shaft that sits between the spring and the fastening bolt, to sit it on the derailleur was not properly spaced like the Shimano original. So when I tightened the bolt to attach it, the pressure from the bolt did not allow the cage to move freely, I had to find a spacer washer that was just small enough to fit there outside the spring but inside the shaft and finally allowed the cage to move freely when tightened to full torque. What a mess, then shifting was below par likely because my makeshift "spacer" was not perfect. What a hassle it was, in the end you pay for the engineering when buying authentic...
I actually bought these jockey wheels. Entirely because they were cheaper than the replacements from SRAM. Don't care that they're ceramic bearings... Kinda hope they're not. Working fine so far on my mountain bike.
The reason why I find Luke's channel better than gcn, it's a everyday practical question most riders will seek to find out..
While gcn is more branded this and that..
Not for the commoners lol 😂🤣
Ceramic is super hard, Nylon and Aluminium is soft. What happens is that the hard bearings destroy the soft race. A seal would only help a small amount. In order for the Ceramic bearing to last it needs a hard race with a proper seal and lubrication as you have said.
My current bike runs on shimano 105 set up is 9 speed 11-25 teeth rear and front is a triple 52 42 30 my question is now the triple crank set seems obsolete what would be the best set up for my new bike front and rear i live in the west pennines and its all up hill round here 😀
Yeah so I would go for a compact crank at the front (50,34) and if you hit alot of hills, maybe go for an 11-32 tooth on the back. But you might also get away with 11-28, which is the setup I currently run. 11 speed if you can, but if you are looking to do it on a budget, I would go for a 10 speed Tiagra 4700 setup. That groupset is bulletproof!
Dat intro!
The sealed bearing type has been good for me...spinning nicely....
The intro alone deserves a like
Awesome vid again Luke, cheers 👍🏼😘
Hello. The seals don't guarantee reliability- quite the opposite. I bought a set of BBB jockey wheels last winter. They have a ordinary 2RS bearings in them- great, I thought. The bike did a season of racing, culminating in one wet TT. I came to service it, some days later, and found the lower jockey wheel was solid- it would not turn. I removed it, then levered the seal off. There was no visible debris, or indeed corrosion, but it would not turn. There was not much grease there, either. I swilled it out with degreaser, and eventually got it moving. I then filled it full of grease, put the seal back, and resolved to check it regularly. That last TT was about 8% slower than usual, so the problem might have been developing for some time. Not good.
More recently, I noticed the nearly-new front wheel on my CX bike was similarly horrible. Upon dismantly (opposite of assembly. I hereby initiate a campaign to have that word inducted in to the OED), I noticed that the balls on one side of the wheel were rusted to fk, and the races were also rusty. I replaced the balls, gave the races a scrape and packed it solid with grease. That wheel has lip seals, just like a 2RS bearing.
CONCLUSION- Standard engineering seals are not up to the job of sealing bike bearings. You need lots of grease in there. The bike manufacturers don't realise this. Carefully lever the seal off a new one, and stuff grease in.
PS Use calcium grease- lithium grease is not waterproof (At least, it wasn't the last time I spoke to a grease expert. He was TD of national oil co, with a PhD in lubrication). You can get calcium grease for a tenner a pot. It is a nice white colour.
PPS don't even think of using those fancy perforated jockey wheels for CX. Grass will find a way into the holes, mud will build up in the cage and, if you know about CX, you will know what happens next. I make anti-clogging CX bits, so I know what the enemy looks like! Good luck.
Hi Luke! Where are you going to make video about speed pedals? Want to buy them, but I am waiting for your great review 😊👍
Any chance you tried taking seals from the cheaper set and putting them onto the ceramic set? Seems like the overall diameter is pretty similar so you could possibly seal the ceramic set yourself potentially.
I don't want to be a pedant here but a bike that pedals itself would violate the *first* law of thermodynamics: energy cannot be created or destroyed. The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy cannot decrease. A bike that pedals itself won't decrease entropy.
Gotta chuckle, but infinitely useful.
In my experience in Asia (I work in a bike shop) the cheap ceramic jockey wheels do have seals... however they are still rubbish because grit gets in, the ceramic balls wear out the steel races and the cheap aluminium wheels themselves snap after not much riding. Also the shifting performance is way less then the standard Shimano wheels.
Used and worn out several of these. Usually alu teeth wear out and to prevent risk of collapse i replace them. Spin quite well after long use. 1 time bearing seized completely. agree they are not the best but not bad either
Question - you can get 689-2RS ceramic bearings for around £7 for a pair, what would happen if you put them in the ceramic jockey wheel? Would every single physic paper ever written be instantly invalidated? Enquiring minds want to know.
Luke, Just purchased a cheap China Meilan GPS cycle computer for my new gravel build. Flying blind, could you cover as a topic? So many, not sure which is best... and what they will pair with, models? Have seen these Meilan computers, starting at $19., for a wireless GPS!! Not too shabby. I decided to go hog-wild and spent $24, on mine, mind you, with free shipping! Love my Garmin 520 for my road bike... thinking that my Garmin would find life living on a gravel bike... a little too stressful.
Been waiting for this video for a year now. Can you try buying ceramic bearings from inline skates and replace it? or replace it with like ABEC 7 bearings from skate boards. But, maybe the diameter of the bearings differ on the jockey wheels. A follow up video would be interesting :)
Oh wow I got one of those, last time I checked before replacing the chain they are fine even after hundreds of km.
I'll check if they are crunchy now.
Might explain why I kept getting dropped by my buddies, you know, any excus~, ehm, explanation counts.
edit: nope, mine definitely not crunchy, but not super smooth either, it has quite a bit of play though, I need a new one.
Just the intro is worth watching the hole video. Where did you got the inspiration from? DemolitionRanch maybe?
I always use the Meroca ones on my MTB but regular bearing ones on my LTwoo A7 before and currently on my Deore M5120 and you can feel the difference of smoother pedalling. I haven't tried ceramic ones for this reason it can't be sealed.
Can you test a full cage set up to see if it's the same?
So I actually have one to test, and yeah the bearings have the same issue. I have some of the sealed bearings spare however, so when I come to use it, I'll swap them out...
@@TraceVelo Awesome! Shame you can't get a ceramicspeed to compare them side by side! You have inspired me to do a bargain carbon build so lots of stuff is coming from aliexpress too
The seals do add friction. I wonder how the standard would compare if there was no seal or the same seal on the ceramic on.
i watched this before and your video about long cage with oversized jockey wheels. i've previously seen the process ceramicspeed use when they build their expensive jockey wheels and in their words they 'glue' the bearing cartridge into the jockey wheel. but since they remain replaceable i'm guessing what they really mean is using something like loctite 641 round the outside of the catridge before inserting it in the jockey wheel.
Looking for guff on AliExpress at £2 ! Nope never done that 🤣 Keep up the great content, and good sense of humour
It'd be sweet to see you team up with Hambini and have him analyze you frame's BB shell and your crankset, I wonder where it would end up on his scale.
Hambini is toxic AF, he shouldn't come anywhere near this channel. Dude is cool when he's talking about bikes but as soon as he gets off topic and starts his rants about women and politics he becomes an absolute cringe lord.
I've never bought any of these particular items, but one of my ali rules is, all the critical standard size bearings get yeeted first thing and replaced by proper ones that i spec depending on use case. And replacements can come from China or they usually come from a local supplier but NEVER from a random vendor, always from a bearing specialist. Not actually expensive.
Haven't you seen the vids on ceramic speeds jockey wheels. They are actually slower in many cases due to weight and offer little advantage. You can get steel bearings with similar rolling resistance and wear down 4 or 5 times as slow for 20 bucks
Superstar doesn't seem to ship to the US, I was going to get some after using the cheapy eBay ones 😵🥺😥 Wonder if I could just swap the seals from the XX1 jockey wheels to the bling ones 🤔🤔🤔
my experience with jockey wheels (MTB):
- Old ones (no bearing) are total crap: mud, rust, lots of friction.
- Normal with bearings are the best, they spin slower but if you keep it clean on the outside almost need no service.
- Cheaper aluminium ones are very good looking and smooth rolling but they require service more often than classic ones.
- Cheaper Ceramic are very good only if keep it clean... by blowing or just water, but are very delicate.
For me the best are XT-M8000 Pulley wheels, smooth and durable.
Ultralight aluminium are hard to clean, and some aren't smooth and too wide for 11 speed chain.
👍Interesting video, how did you get the covers off the ball bearings?
A problem I found with the cheep ceramic jockey wheels is that there is no float on the guide wheel. Took them off straight away because they were noisy and rough.
Possibly ok on a triathlon or time trial bike with a waxed chain, and is serviced every 20 miles or so?
plese share any recommended 689RS/689 2RS for replace my old china OSPC ceramic bearing🙏