Cheap CERAMIC JOCKEY WHEELS - a fatal design flaw!
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2020
- The cheap ceramic jockey wheels I’ve used all have the same fatal design flaw. But what is it?
Replacing the standard jockey wheels on your rear derailleur with ones that use ceramic bearings, can reduce the friction produced by your bicycle drivetrain, allowing you to put more watts down onto the road, theoretically making you a faster cyclist.
Ceramic speed produce incredibly high quality ceramic bearings and bearing components for the bike industry. They are famous for their bottom brackets, pulleys, and jockey wheels, but their products are ludicrously expensive. HOWEVER a much cheaper option is available!
AliExpress and eBay are littered with thousands of cheap aluminium jockey wheels sporting ceramic bearings. I have bought a number of these in the past, in an effort to make my cheap Chinese carbon fibre road bike a little bit faster, but in my experience they all suffer with the same design flaw.
Most of the bearings used on a road bike will have seals on them to protect the bearings inside from grit and grime from the road. But all the cheaper ceramic jockey wheels I have used, include bearings that have no seals!
This is a major design flaw in my opinion, and in this episode, I will dive into the reasons behind this, compare them to other options, and what you should buy instead.
Got any questions or comments, stick them below 👇 and I'll try to get back to as many of you as I can!
Timestamps:
00:31 - Intro
01:49 - Ceramic Speed Products
03:13 - Jockey Wheels Analysis
04:50 - Design Flaw
06:49 - Ceramic vs Regular Jockey Wheels
08:08 - Conclusion
Useful Bearing Article:
rushsports.co.za/blogs/news/w...
Product links (Please note, I have no affiliation to any of the sellers linked below):
Cheap Ceramic Jockey Wheels: tinyurl.com/y8jc3yxl
Cheap Regular Jockey Wheels: tinyurl.com/ybvt2jbp
Intro roll:
Created by Dev Joshi - www.go2dev.co.uk
Music:
Birocratic (birocratic.lnk.to/allYL) - Fresh Healthy Perspectives
Lakey Inspired ( / lakeyinspired ) - In My Dreams, The Process
About Trace Velo:
I love cycling, and I love getting pro cycling kit for less. If it’s cheap, from China, and made of carbon fibre, I’m interested!
Instagram:
/ tracevelo
Email:
tracevelouk@gmail.com
Please note:
All products demonstrated in this video have been purchased by me, and I have no affiliation to any of the sellers or vendors shown.
In addition, I am not a professionally trained bike mechanic. There can be risks associated with using products that are unbranded, untested, or come from sources where the provenance is unknown. Please talk to a qualified bike mechanic if you are in any doubt.
In essence, be careful, do your research, and cycle safe!!! - Спорт
I am so anxious everytime to see if his name is still Luke.
I amso anxious when I see unsealed bearings on drive train
@@ECsponger2 it aint all peaches and cream baby
you all probably dont give a shit but does anyone know a tool to log back into an instagram account..?
I somehow forgot my account password. I love any tricks you can offer me
@Keegan Gordon Instablaster ;)
@@ECsponger2Your whole chain consists of unsealed bearings.
Only reason trace doesn’t upload as often is because he’s waiting on Ali express’ slow ass shipping 😂😂
Havnt even watched the whole thing and can already tell it’s a banger,. This dude really getting me thro lockdown
Wicked cheers Tom... Also loving the profile pic 😉
@@TraceVelo he's outside your flat now...... 😳
Steel jockey : we might spin slower, but we last longer
Ceramic wheels: C R O M C H
I request crunchy jockey wheel asmr.
*Whispers into mic* These jockey wheels are crunchy as fuck, bluckle up boys!
I discovered whispering asmr completely by accident when I was at university. There were two girls whispering in the library and I was listening. It was really relaxing, so I looked on UA-cam for videos of people whispering when I got home. I didn't even know it was a thing. Used to listen to multiple tabs of whispering at the same time. Crazy times. I met my girlfriend a couple of years later who asked me if I was into it. Turned out she was too. She used to watch tiny cooking videos. The crunchy jockey wheels sound a lot like stirring in a tiny bowl.
@@TraceVelo they are complete and utter gawbage, nice !!!
All I can see is fidget spinners rebranded as jockey wheels.
What a legend this bloke is
It was truly awesome to see you on GCN Tech Luke !!! I really hope it gives your channel the MEGA SUBSCRIBER BOOST it so richly deserves :D now, back to watching you talk about my next purchase. :D
WHICH ONE! WHEN?!
Cheers tinMan! Yeah was a proper milestone moment for me. But honestly, BIG PROPS to you guys for spamming the comments to get me on the show in the first place! Was so freaking cool!!!
When the heck was that?!
LINK MAN LINK!!!
wait, which episode i completely missed that.
The nylon (or other polymer) inner race will entirely negate any advantage that ceramic bearings *might* theoretically, possibly, temporarily, might have had.
As soon as you put a load on those bearings the hard ceramic balls will cut (wear) away at the race, even without grit acting as a grinding paste.
My guess why they don't have seals is a) cost, but also b) so they don't have the friction that the seals cause. As most of the friction in (good) bearings is from the seals and also the lubricant, the rolling friction is usually low between ball and race, but that requires both surfaces to be very hard.
Yeah, the nylon race just completely wore out. I think you're right about the seals aswell. From a general consumer perspective, if the jockey wheel spins freely, then it would seem to be good. If they had seals, they def wouldnt spin as easily.
I'm sure Hambini would agree. If you want longevity then have the seals in place. If you want low friction, then have no seals and run a light lubricant. You can't have both. You would probably get descent low friction results by taking the seals off a non-ceramic jockey wheel compared to a ceramic one.
Exactly what I would have said. In fact, I believe the bearing would probably perform better if the balls were from nylon as well, since they wouldn't wear out the race like that. I believe they don't put seals in there so people who are fooled into buying them give them a spin and go "wow!" and comment on how great they are. By the time they notice they are worn out and probably rubbing on the caps the whole time (if they notice at all), it's too late.
Don't buy fancy expensive (or cheap) metal jockey wheels. Get some Ultegra ones, they have sealed bearings (certainly of higher quality than the chinese ones) and never wear out. Possibly 105 are also built like that. Delrin or some other type of plastic is the appropriate material for jockey wheels as it dampens the noise of the chain rattling across them. Metal jockey wheels are just stupid.
Normally the ball bearing should have same material on the balls and the rims. Any difference in hardness would cause high wearing. But yep, ceramic rims are much more expensive than the balls in small diameter.
LISA, IN THIS HOUSE WE OBEY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS
It just keeps getting faster and faster !
Yeeeees! Long time fan and Chinese carbon lover. Love watching the new videos! You seriously are up there with GCN. Keep doing what you're doing.
Your channel is amazing. I’m considering getting into cycling and I really like the idea of building your own bike and tinkering. Hope your channel grows a lot!
I come for the intros and stay for the fantastic content! Keep it up, Trace Velo!
Great video, as always. Love the shorter duration. Keep it up!
I need a carbon chinese road bike now.
The weird thing is that 2 hours ago, before starting watching your videos I didn't.
Welcome to the club. There is no cure. You're doomed.
Its a waste of money
The Chinese manufacturers probably leave the seals off so that people who try a 'spin test' first thing out of the package don't immediately leave negative reviews or return them. It will take several rides before people realize the bearings are completely shot... usually too late to bother by that point.
Cup & Cone, I recon you are totally right!!
@@TraceVelo reckon?
@@MatthewAtkinson Did he stutter?
@@MatthewAtkinson did he stutter (2)
I reckon he needed to do some recon on whether he stuttered or not.
Great content, love your sense of humor and the amazing quality of your videos.
Thanks Calfa2x!!!
You're absolutely right. Rubber seals create a slight friction drag on bearing rotation and in high-speed applications, they can even wear the seal and cause seal contaminants to enter the bearing. A better alternative would be to have a non-contact metal shielded bearing, many times having the zz or 2z suffix, or using a non-contact rubber shield made by NSK. Ceramic bearings are kinda a gimmick anyhow, they were introduced in the industrial bearing world as a replacement for electric motor bearings because they wouldn't allow electricity to pass through to the shaft of the motor. Bearing steel is already one of the hardest steels out there.
The more expensive aftermarket jockey wheels do, but they cost 2-4 times as much as the ones he tested in the vid. Stylrtop for example sells aluminum jockey wheels on Amazon for $11 that have 689-ZZ bearings and look much more solidly constructed.
First video I ever watched on this channel (I'm a MTBer), and i'm very impressed. Congrats on making quality content, you definitely deserve more subs!
love your user perspective of the Ali express stuff - as well as the great humour.
There's some very good value and decent quality out there - as well as some real junk. Your channel allows the bargain hunters here to go in with open eyes and informed. Cheers
Finally! the wait is over! new video ☀️
Your videos are hilarious. I watch youtube all the time and these are the only ones to genuinely make me laugh out aloud. Thanks for the great content. Production is top notch
Thanks Fraz! Yeah I put quite a lot of effort into these vids, so really appreciate the comment!!
Luke, I have found your channel via GCN and am subbing. Watched all of your clips and they are all pure gold! hahaha, keep it up matey
Dude your videos are much appreciated and you help people like me save money thanks. 👍🇦🇺
No worries dude, happy to help!
There’s no way you don’t do media professionally, this is top class. Can’t wait for when you have 1 million subs!
I put some of these sealed bearing jockey wheels on my 1983 Super Record rear mech, the difference was astounding. From the originals with the bushes for bearings. To me $10 well spent. Plus they were GOLD...LOL.
Bruh your creativity is top notch
Cheers Austin!!!
Allways, Luke has his own fun comprehensive glass fiber inforced style. I too do appreciate that
maatte your writing just keeps getting better and better!
Another quality video, Luke!
Unsealed and unlubricated bearings. No wonder they spin so fast when fresh out of the box.
Even steel bearings spin fast if you remove the grease.
Trace Velo has become my must-see UA-cam channel - well done Luke!
Cheers Alex!!!
Mine too, the fun factor combined with original openings and presentation. Also the information in an honest way with again a good sense of absurd humor ! All hail our fearless leader, as Lantern Rouge would say about Remco Evenepoel.
Awesome vid again Luke, cheers 👍🏼😘
Great vid! Always wondered about all those under priced ceramic jockies. Clever comparison.
Good video, thank you!
I ordered few of this, some are with metal bearings with metal seal, some are with rubber and some are ceramic (it seems open) as you have.
I will try them when I get them 👍
Luke! The guru of affordable bike components! Great Video. I heard a few pros actually remove the seals from their bearings. Must be nice to have a tech who can swap bearings every few days. But for the rest of us, RS it is. Nice Hambini callout.
I've heard the same thing actually. Marginal GAINZ BABY!
Placed an order for cheap aluminium jockey wheels just before your video came out but bought the steel balled version. Have now received and fitted. Bike now back to changing gear properly with no missed sprockets on the cassette. Maybe slightly louder but not by much.
4 seconds in and this is the best video so far!! Love how thorough your work is and sharing other useful sites to improve everyone's awareness. love the comparison of wear , very informative! the jokes are on point! Can a seal be transplanted to get the best of both worlds?
Thanks for the info! Well done!
Thanks for the heads up.
every single video here is top-notch, if it wasn't to such a niche audience base, subscribers should be in the millions
Not long before watching this video I ordered cheap ceramic bearing ones - or so I thought. After watching the video I rushed to see if I can still cancel the order, but it turned out I actually ordered a regular sealed bearing set. Must be some sort of bicycle guardian angel in action
Great vid! good info
love all the videos, especially the close ups and details! any difference in RZ vs RS bearings? i was sent RZ by my Chinese friends but from reading, it seems sealing properties aren’t as decent..
Thanks for the info!
Great video as always. I'd be interested to know whether or not the sealed bearing jockey wheels run better than the original delrin ones. Whenever I clean my bike the originals don't seem to spin that freely. As you say they, are easy enough to clean and re-lube but wondered if sealed bearings may spin more freely for longer. When they are no longer serviceable which would you choose as a replacement?
:D OOOH NOO!
Just ordered some Ceramic ones 2 weeks ago..
Guess I might need to reorder some normal ones
thanks mate for the good vids
Having used both types of bearing in alloy jockey wheels, my own findings are similar - but not exactly the same - as reported here.
The ceramic 'open' type does attract grit, but a dose of lube keeps them fairly clean in my experience, much like chain lube, it pushes grit to the outside. The sealed type does bed-in quickly and spin almost as freely as the ceramic after a few rides, so yeah agree there.
One benefit he didn't cover was the gear indexing. The standard plain-bearing in an OEM jockeys have a LOT of free play 'slop' effecting gear indexing. Either type of alloy wheel has very little side-to-side play (the video exaggerates the opposite to my experience). This ridged tracking of the jockey allows for more authoritive gear changes and thus indexing consistency. The other point is sound, they do create more drive-chain sound - note not more drag, they actually offer less resistance, but you do hear gear changes more as its metal-on-metal. For the money - give them a try, and while you're at it look to go up a few teeth on the bottom wheel if you can 😉
Yeah, haven't done that with my 105 yet. But I did with the claris I used to have and damn! Was it akways way to crispy of changing gears, for such a low price and category
i Like the way he perform infront of camera! energize and clear
Loved opening skit. Interesting content as ever.
Hell yeah! great to see you know about Hambini, aged 5
Looking for guff on AliExpress at £2 ! Nope never done that 🤣 Keep up the great content, and good sense of humour
Somebody: Is it Cheap?
Luke: Yes
Somebody: Great?
Luke: Definitely Yessss
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
@@TraceVelo certainly if it's green or carbon, or even better green colored carbon ....
Ceramic on nylon..... even with seal this is a "worst idea ever" case
Yeah that little jockey wheel did not stand up to the test of time!
Yes exactly, an engineer has obviously not designed that thing
Often those bearings are nylon too.
Dat intro!
Thanks fo this video sir!
The '6' in the bearing reference defines the bearing type (radial contact deep groove ball bearing) and the 8 the cross section, 9 the bore size. I think they will have left the seals off so the bearing feels more free spinning. The only reason you get a noticiable reduction friction in the ceramic bearing (hybrid) is that there is no grease or seal contact. Hybrid bearings only see a noticable friction benifit at high speeds if lubricated in the same way.
Strange to see zircona balls used in a hybrid bearing, Silicon Nitride is more commonly used. Great video and I think ill be sticking to my orginal naff looking jokey wheels for now.
Ben Roberts, dropping some bearing code knowledge into the comments!!! You clearly know your stuff. You are probably right about the seals though. Leaving them off means they will spin freely out of the box. More than enough to fool the average Joe into thinking they got a decent product.
that was just about bearable :) great video
👍Interesting video, how did you get the covers off the ball bearings?
I have since in the last month bought this oversize carbon hanger and I checked the bearings which now had clear rubber bearing protectors.
Hey Luke, Great videos! Do you have any tips on removing the outer covers on these types of jockey wheels? They can be quite hard to remove. Thnks
I sense that luke consumes the occasional AVE content.
Well to be fair, my bike is a skoocum choocher
as a MTB'er, bearings without seals give me the sads. anyway, great work! any chance of you giving an "unbranded" mountain bike build a go?
these have seals and cheap www.ebay.com/itm/383925765240
Just found your channel bro Funny and knowledgeable
Peace
Great intro!
I see what you did on that bearing pun, and I can't help but feel it was a-pawl-ing. I guess that's just how you roll!
Cheers Luke!
Luke, my back ordered Sensah groupsets were mailed out today... on 1 week shipping hold for the new upgraded shifters to arrive at the various AE stores. My AE seller, describes the upgraded shifter as having the "golden gear", time will tell. Tried to push for you to get a replacement set of shifters.... who knows? My first venture into 12 speed, wish me well.
What I did with mine was take the old sealed bearing from my worn Shimano and the side casings and swapped them over onto the meroca wheel and now it's smooth asf
8:03 - if those bearings were sealed, they would not spin as freely out of the box. RS bearings have a contact rubber seal which introduces tiny drag to the bearing and an aluminium pulley doesn't have the inertia to overcome it.
They also spin so smoothly because there is no grease, which is also why they collapse so quickly.
Any chance you tried taking seals from the cheaper set and putting them onto the ceramic set? Seems like the overall diameter is pretty similar so you could possibly seal the ceramic set yourself potentially.
Been waiting for this video for a year now. Can you try buying ceramic bearings from inline skates and replace it? or replace it with like ABEC 7 bearings from skate boards. But, maybe the diameter of the bearings differ on the jockey wheels. A follow up video would be interesting :)
Saved me from wasting my money and time. Thanks Luke!
Trace Velo never disappoints. Have had the a pair of regular Chinesium jockey wheels on one of my road bikes. They workes nicely. However, as with all alloy jockey wheels, they add a little bit of noise compared to Shimanos "plastic" ones.
Yeah I found the same thing. The shifting was nice and sharp, but yeah a little noisier.
Back in the day, upper jockey wheels had lateral float. Maybe only on MTB, as I never had a road bike back then.
I had lubricated high end ceramic bearing (from Boca) in a fishing reel. On free spool it could spin over a minute.
That knackered bearing sounds like my knees…
Hi Luke! Where are you going to make video about speed pedals? Want to buy them, but I am waiting for your great review 😊👍
My congratulations in that boxing analogies.
Well my experience has been somewhat been different than yours. I have several bikes with Campagnolo 10 speed gearing.
They come from the factory with 10 tooth plastic jockey wheels. The 11 speed ones that Campagnolo uses are 11 tooth and they shift slightly better on the small cogs in my opinion.
So as a experiment I ordered some Campagnolo suitable cheap ceramic ones as they have 11 teeth to use on my 10 speed setups. They fit perfectly.
After two years of heavy use on now three of my bikes I have been quite pleased. Mine are sold as J&L Ceramic Ceramic Pulleys on eBay for $11.99 U.S.
They have the open bearings and have plastic pulley bodies. They are quiet, shift very well and I have had zero issues. I did use a drop of oil on them when installed.
The shifting was slightly improved and I felt the chain wrap was slightly better due to the larger diameter. I live in Florida and only occasionally get wet when riding and this may help with the longevity.
By the way Campagnolo Super Record 11 has one Ceramic ball pulley and one Ceramic bushing pulley. I have one bike with that setup and the cheap ones work as well as these.
The wheels come with no directions. When you install them look at the wheels for rotation and position information molded on the side of them.
Like you, I buy Chinese Carbon bits like one piece handlebars , seatposts, computer mounts and seats. Almost everything has been made well and works well without spending a fortune on my hobby.
As an aside, the pedals that you tried and didn't like, well I use those also. I have had a positive experience with two pairs of these. I run the black cleats and put the tension right at the middle of the screw. No noise, however they for someone who likes a high clamping force I do not recommend them. The bearings are very smooth and they are easy to use.
Finally!!! Been looking if pulling the trigger on one of those...
Yeah def stick to the standard non-ceramic ones. They are cheaper, and work like a dream!
@@TraceVelo curiously the original Shimano are more expensive here that I though.
I was gonna change the jockeys in my Sora training derailleur and they almost cost the same to change the whole rear mech, ended buying a new one for the bike and leaving the old one in my Urban all terrain bike
Yeah the official Shimano jockey wheels are pretty pricey. When you can pick up some aluminium ones for £2 on AliExpress, bit of a no-brainer IMO
Used a few of the cheaper jockey wheels, the standard bearings can rust but are easy to replace with stainless ones and then go for years
Thank you very much
I got some Al jockey wheels from Wuzei brand on AliExpress. They came with ceramic balls on steel races (inner and outer). I greased them with blue park tool lube before installing. Super smooth without excessive play after 1500km on my gravel bike.
Haha, I had to laugh when you inserted the asmr clip 😂
Maybe I should start a companion channel...
@@TraceVelo 😂
I LOVE sealed bearings. I live on a dirt road. Dust, mud, grit and stones. And I do large distances. So robustness and lack of maintenance are far more important than low friction. I am amazed that so many components are totally exposed to road muck. Pedal bearing for example. Many motorcycle chains have seals in each link but not pushbike chains. Are bikes merely intended as toys?
Great video but could you not get a sealed ceramic bearings to put in the over sized cheap wheels
Great topic, super informative... I too will go cheap every time. $1600 for derailleur ceramics, who knew? My usual jockey wheel maintenance, sad to say, is... ooops, another sorta accidental shot of Teflon wax-based chain lube.
Aliexpress seller messaged today: New Sensah shifters, with the upgraded metal gear, mailed out today to AE sellers. My back ordered groupsets should be sent out in two days.
2:12 beside the saved watts how aero are they?
Also how much flex porwer will it provide when flexing on hipsters at my local coffie place?
This... this was more funny than usual!
The intro alone deserves a like
Thanks Luke for this awesome video as always. I have a question : do you think it would still be a bargain to buy the cheap jockey wheel and change the bearing yourself for a nicely sealed ceramic one ?
Yeah potentially if you can find some sealed ceramic ones that are the same size. Honestly though, I would just get the standard bearing ones, they last forever, look super flashy, and are crazy cheap.
@@TraceVelo I might give it a try, thank you for the answer.
No probs 😎
Gotta chuckle, but infinitely useful.
Did you get a replacement for your left shifter?
Great video Luke. Do the cheap standard ones offer any benefit over the stock sihimano ones? cheers
To be honest, not really. The stock ones are totally fine, and last forever. But they do eventually wear out, and replacing them with some flashy looking aluminium ones for like £4, that's a win in my book!!!
@@TraceVelo agreed, I watched your segment on gcn and it really seemed like they made you focus on the negatives of buying from China. They are known to be heavily biased towards their sponsors, what do you think about that? (a feature is a feature nonetheless ;)
@@TraceVelo Amusing video from an acting perspective - entertaining!
What I didn’t understand was whether it would be better to get more moderately-priced ceramic bearings that I assume would be sealed (this I don’t know). The cheap ones sound like trash. Spending $1600 or whatever is ridiculous. But aren’t there ceramic ones for, like, $20 that are sealed and better than the originals? Either with less friction or lasting longer?
Also, I’ve seen people mentioning brifters a few times. I’ve been wanting to replace a 10 speed left Shimano brifter for a long time, but am always dissuaded by what seems like over-priced offers because they are rarer. This is for a CAAD9. It has been sitting for a couple of years so I’ve had to resort to my 1990 Specialized Allez, one of the first carbon fiber frames, but not in the best shape (pulley wheels included). Any thoughts?
Thanks!
love it man
Cheers Rufus!!!
Please, advice for a Shimano XT Deore..in the process of upgrading to better jockey wheels. Was not wanting to pay 500 for ceramics. What would you suggest...found your channel. I subscribed
Hi luke was watching your video were you build your bike I bought the same frame are the forks an integrated headset meaning you don't need a crown headset bearing sits directly on forks it deffo seams to fit better and works fine on mine
love the cheesy jokes at the beginning. And of course, great video.
Just the intro is worth watching the hole video. Where did you got the inspiration from? DemolitionRanch maybe?
That intro was brilliant
Used and worn out several of these. Usually alu teeth wear out and to prevent risk of collapse i replace them. Spin quite well after long use. 1 time bearing seized completely. agree they are not the best but not bad either
Have you tried picking off the seal from the RS bearing with a tooth pick and seeing if it fits on the open ceramic bearing?
What if you take the seal from the cheaper bearing then use it in the ceramic bearing? Could you Do a comparison on both