Camping at Darien Lake was an annual tradition for my family for so many years when I was a kid, I highly recommend it. Hearing Viper testing early in the morning, echoing from a mile away was magical, makes me nostalgic every time I hear an Arrow lift hill
Interesting video. Even though I live in Buffalo I've had a season pass at Canada's Wonderland for the last 5 years because the few times I went to Darien Lake in the past I was sorely disappointed. The place was run down and the coasters were uncomfortable to say the least. I've been to other Six Flags parks and I've noticed general shabbiness compared to the several CF parks I've been to. My hope is that with the merger the SF parks will be brought up to CF standards. You brought up some interesting points. I think returning all the coasters to two train operations will be a big plus as will the retracking of Predator. I believe that being able to visit SF parks with a CF Gold Pass with all-park addon will also be a plus. I know that I'll visit more often just because it's so convenient (and included). I would also like to see the SF parks go to the CF Fast Lane option, which I think is better than what SF has now. I agree that Darien Lake really does need another big coaster to draw in crowds. A one-two-three punch with Ride of Steel, a retracked Predator and maybe a launch coaster would make it a good lineup for a regional park. And, yes, improve on the food options - the last time I went I spent $35 on food for two of us that was barely adequate. Darien Lake is a park with a ton of potential. Make the place look better, add a new coaster and do a media blitz to showcase what's been done. Advertise in Buffalo, Rochester and even Syracuse and the Niagara region of Ontario. The place could easily be a highly-rated SF/CF mid-tier park. I would hate to see the place close down. I was brought up in Corfu and worked during my high school years at Darien Lake when it was only a campground with and arcade, bike rental, mini golf and general store. I'm talking back in the mid 1970's. Yes, I'm old. But I still love coasters and theme parks and I'm hoping that the SF/CF merger only brings good things to Darien Lake.
Visited Darien Lake back in 2022. I haven't watched your video yet, but I wanna share my input; 1. You can tell corporates gives zero f's about this park. 2. The staff that worked here, from food service, ride operators, you name it - absolutely were giving 100% to their jobs. This is something that you don't see everywhere 3. Predator felt surprisingly smooth and nice. I haven't felt that "rough" - the worst for me is old Wildcat at hersheypark. 4. investing massive into existing rides is 100% not something a park about to close would do.
This a great video with a lot of good info. Thanks for making it. I have been going to Six Flags Darien Lake since I was a kid, and the last two years I have been a season pass holder. It has definitely gotten a lot of quality of life improvements, that have been awesome to see! I hope what you said about two train operations is true. With the uptick in attendances it will really help. Also, I was told by someone in the park that Predator will be finished next year with the entire layout getting Titan track. I would love a new coaster but I’ve heard that there won’t be one for at least another two to three years. Lastly, I have heard people say that the park is landlocked. I find this to be very untrue.There seems to be so much space everywhere in the park. Especially where the old waterslides used to be.
I'm from Toronto and a few months back did a Cedar Fair mini road trip to CP & KI and had a blast with our chain wide seasons pass on top of loving a half hour away from Wonderland. We've already gotten the same pass for next year and have our eyes set on LaRonde and Dariend Lake as well as a few other East US parks. It's been about 17 years since I've been there and Ride of Steel was my first ever hyper and can't wait to see how much my interpretation of it has changed since I've become an enthusiast.
Welcome back, man! I visited Darien Lake for the first time a couple weeks ago, and I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of fun I had! I visited on the same day that I did Waldameer, so I didn’t have much time at the park, but I was able to get on everything in about two hours. But either way, it was a beautiful and decently well-run park that I am sure that I would have loved even more if I had more time to do so. It has the potential to become a big park in the Six Flags/Cedar Fair chain!
I completely agree. I feel that DL has some of the highest potential in the Chain. Already has the Hotel and Camping options ready to go. It's literally a half hour from downtown Buffalo (if even that long). Plus it hosts some of the biggest concert tours go through there every summer. There is also plenty of expansion room for rides and themed areas. The park needs to really spruce up all of its rides and buildings with fresh coats of paint and other simple modern touches. I feel it needs a coaster or other major ride that really pops on its Skyline both from the road and the concert Venue. I'll always remember the first concert I went to there and all I could see from the venue was Viper and the very top of Ride of Steel. It would help generate outside interest if there was some more interesting looking rides from the amphitheater. I agree it could use a major thrill coaster to help beef up it's line-up. Maybe a multi-launch of some variety as Moto-coaater is a nifty coaster, but it's definitely more of a family coaster then a major thrill one. Also it could benefit from a more unique coaster, maybe an RMC Wild Moose coaster would fit in nicely. So many ideas for this park I hope the New Six Flags will give it some much needed investments in the next few years.
I am hopeful they continue the upward trend. Ideally i would love EPR to sell to SF and let them invest as they want as opposed to what EPR wants to invest. The REITs just want to milk it for as much as they can.
I'm so glad you mentioned the layout of the park, that has been the most annoying thing regarding this park. It really does seem like they have a potential at this park to do something pretty good growing the reach of the park.
A lot of what you are describing, has been true across all of the Six Flags parks this year. They shifted their focus to a lot of infrastructure and beautification, because it was the biggest complaint about the parks.
This is my home park. It may not be the best to others but its one thing people in our city can be proud of and have fun at considering we don't have a lot of amusement parks in western NY. There is always a concert going on so that is one thing that help keep the business going. I think they should do a survey to see what the consumers may want to see and do in the park besides rides so there is always something to do. Thanks for sharing this video, great content!
I almost wanted to say SFA but well I was definitely thinking this too. Given SFDL is a resort, I can only see the Cedar Fair side wanting to capitalize on it. Before the merger, I had my doubts that Six Flags would do anything worthwhile for the park.
The moment you said what park it was I immediately decided to click off and not watch the rest of the video with an open mind. But actually this is very interesting, it's really nice to see a video that goes into such detail on one park. Here's to a great future for the park!
Went to DL last July, as an add on to a trip for our coaster club. We actually had a pretty good time. Now that there is a combined pass, I will likely be going more now. I guess technically it is my SF home park. I'm glad to be hearing the good news you put out in this video. It was a beautiful park when we were there.
Love camping at DL, and combine that with a concert during the summer… it’s such an underrated park. I’m just excited we get two new Mind Eraser trains next year 😂
It's been known for many years that despite the 1 train ops the park owns at least 2 trains for every coaster (except Ride of Steel). Their reasoning for not using more than a single train at a time was to make them last longer and make maintenance easier, which I can understand, but when you're busy you need to move people faster on your marquee rides. Viper in particular still has 3 whole trains... Mind Eraser and Predator were in the worst shape, with both having "frankentrains" cobbled together with parts cannibalized from each other to try and keep them running past their natural expiration date. It was painfully obvious on Mind Eraser where you could see the odd colored parts on not matching trains.
I hate how much hate this park gets, literally just walk around and you’ll see it’s a nice park, it’s nice to see that someone else feels the same way that I do about this park
Even if they can't justify staffing or reworking the whole campground entrance/plaza, I'd love to just see a bridge in front of the cobra roll of boomerang. Nothing fancy just something similar to the small bridge you go over to get to Mind Eraser. In addition to Covid, another deterrent for Canadians coming back, may be the cost of border crossing. Just this past spring the cost of the cheapest option, the NEXUS card was approved to go up from $50 to $120. These fee increases will take affect Oct.,1 2024. Remember, prior to 2009, border crossing was free with a simple document like a birth certificate to prove citizenship. Great video, keep 'em coming!
I did a little research and came to understand that NY is one of just 5 states that has an enhanced license program that is accepted at the border. Canada discontinued their enhanced license program in June of 2019. I don't know how long they last or how many Canadians got them but the reason for the discontinuation was reported as cost and lack of interest. The ones that were issued are good until they expire, but all that being said, Canadians (and most of the US) without the EDL are now burdened with the increasing cost border crossing.
As a kid in the 80s, I used to go to Darien Lake, Hersheypark, and Dorney since they were all about the same distance and pretty comparable. Over the last several decades, Dorney fell behind and Darien Lake fell way behind. I also remember going to a Metallica concert at Darien Lake in the late 90s, hitting the amusement park before the show in the evening and the park was PACKED. What’s happened at Darien Lake is due to all the various owners and management issues over the last two decades, not a market size issue. If they get their stuff together and market to Buffalo/Rochester, this should be a strong park and a money maker. Needs to be in that order - they can’t market what they currently are to people they spent two decades alienating - if people come back and see the same old same old, they’re not going to give Darien Lake another chance.
I used to think like this too until I found the 2019 attendance numbers that disprove every part of the “attendance has declined over time” idea. Post six flags operating it again, it was still getting good attendance. Covid wrecked it, the data backs it up
@@StationWait What does the attendance trend look like from around 2000-2019? And how does that compare with other northeastern parks? Hersheypark attendance went from 2.6MM - 3.1MM (roughly) - so roughly a 20% increase in those two decades. Did Darien Lake see similar attendance growth, or was it basically flat for two decades? (I’m ignoring revenue per customer, although that would matter as well in a business analysis). If I was involved in making investment decisions now, I think I’d rather see that it was flat or even slightly down from 90s attendance numbers. If it’s been seeing decent attendance growth for those two decades, it’d be much harder to convince me investing in Darien Lake would lead to strong returns. (It doesn’t help that WNY population is down roughly 10% from 1990, while central PA where Hersheypark is located is basically flat in the same time range…there’s a lot of headwinds for Darien Lake that they don’t have any control over).
Oh, Darien Lake? OK. For some reason I thought your video was going to be about how Cedar Point is going to "rise from mediocracy to greatness, or at least become decent." 😉
The biggest change that sf needs to make is it's ownership situation. Sf leases this park from epr properties. When it's time for an upgrade or addition, the capital comes from EPR. Given it's proximity to sf's two other properties I wonder if they will choose to buy the park or extend or end their lease. It's apparent that the new Six Flags will continue to keep Canada's wonderland as the areas flagship park. Only time will tell. I'm sure even if they continue to lease the park that we will see additions, though I doubt they will be anything on the scale of what we see at great adventure or fiesta texas.
They really need some new flat rides also, other than Sky Screamer everything seems to be from the 80s or older. If they're moving to 2 train ops on everything for next year repainting Ride of Steel and Viper would really be a huge cosmetic facelift for the park (glad to see you making videos again)
One thing this park is lacking this year is shows, there aren't any this year and also the old Nightmare at Phantom's cave building has been vacant for years now. But I'm hoping that Cedar Flags will buy this park from EPR Properties so they can do more with it.
I REALLY considered trying to slide that specific building into the layout section, but I couldn’t make it work flow wise. I miss the old Batman show from when I was a kid so much
@StationWait A flat ride package would also be nice for the park to make up for all the rides that we lost the last several years and no replacements for them. I'd like to see another ferris wheel and a Zamperla giant discovery would be nice. Also, they could get rid of the eyesore batting cages that haven't been used in years.
@@StationWait a Sky Rocket II would be killer there and would really fit the park nicely, they wouldn't really need to worry too much about the capacity issues that sort of coaster has.
The loss of the wheel and Grizzly run are killers for me...on top of thunder rapids..I don't even bother to go anymore..I'm glad you say the park has been beautified somewhat..I long for the hershend days..they knew how to take care of a park
It really feels like they are preparing to shut down Discovery Kingdom. Every single one of their coasters have been operating on only one train this entire season. 2 of their major coasters have not opened at all this season. And flat rides are just neglected. I saw that the weather balloons in Looney Toons Seaport was almost non existent. I hope this merger saves Discovery Kingdom. I would be really bummed if this merger kills it
It’s possible for sure, I just don’t see them deciding to sell when they see direct profits from the investments. Time will tell though Notice I only reference things that specifically six flags can do a couple times. Honestly, anyone can make these investments and pick the park up from the ground floor
@@StationWait well ERG already owns the park, I could see Six Flags dropping all the parks they don't own. Cedar fair leadership in the past doesn't like to invest into parks they dont own fully.
do u think frontier city or great escape will be removed and tbh great escape looks good and the new coaste bobcat has a cool theme so idk but frontier city we will have to see
I truly hope they do something with this park. I’m new in the area moved from nyc and great adventures being my home park Darien lake makes me sad every time I go. They have so much land they can build on.
I miss great adventure being my home park and I am so frustrated that I didn’t ride anything when I was Gp since I was so scared but when I rode ride of steel and tantrum I became an addict wanting to learn more
My question is, is Six Flags fixing up the park or is it the owners? I think one of its biggest hurdles is that Six Flags on manages the park. I feel especially through Covid that may have hindered any investment by not having complete control. I feel that if the mind eraser area gets the retheme for 2025 the signs are good but it has to happen with the coaster refurbishment. Not trying to be negative I just feel there are some things that should have already happened
I’ve been wondering this for years and it’s one of the things that has kept me from making this video. I believe the beautification at least and the mind eraser refurb is six flags not EBR (the owners). I genuinely hope they just buy the park back in the future
I believe SF operates like seaworld, so parks individually have their own budget to spend, and depending on growth, profit etc, then the parent fund (six flags) allocates funding for new attractions. If they continue to perform well, then like fiesta Texas they’ll be treat well… I don’t think legacy cedar fair works like this though, I think the individual parks have more control and more of a criteria to match by cedar fair, and a budget to match the changes they make as a chain.. lots of really valid points though, but yes it’s truly in need of a stand out. If the six flags Mexico vekoma tilt does well that would be a cool idea here as a unique must ride. On this, I’m not 100% but when six flags bought back Darien lake, wasn’t it just operation of the park? Owner is EPR Properties, which own 24 attractions e.g. water parks and other amusement parks… I’m not 100% but I don’t think corporate six flags are the ones doing investments at all and essentially they’re just splitting profits for being within the brand. Could be very wrong on that though. Seems probable purely since they don’t use the six flags IP.
I just found out the craziest thing. I thought buying an all park passport would be a bust for Canadians because at my home park (Six Flags Over Georgia) it costs $375 on top of your season pass. This is more than double the cost of the prestige pass, so it seemed to me like buying two season passes would be cheaper. However, for Canada's Wonderland, the all park passport is only $99 to add the all park passport to the prestige pass. I wondered if Darien Lake was more similar to Over Georgia, and it is. Likewise, Carowinds is similar to Canada's Wonderland. So, depending on where you live, it looks like it is cheaper to buy a legacy Cedar Fair park season pass with the all park passport than it is to buy a legacy Six Flags park pass with their passport. That's weird.
The price difference is because the VIP benefits transfer between parks at legacy six flags parks (or so I’ve been told), but I agree it’s really really weird
@StationWait Oh, I didn't notice that the Six Flags Gold Pass All Park Passport add-on is only $125. I'm so curious, though, because both websites have very similar wording regarding benefits working at other parks. It seems the main difference is legacy CF park benefits only transfer to other legacy CF parks, while legacy SF Park benefits supposedly transfer everywhere?
I'll tell ya, as my home park it sure feels like theyre getting ready to kill off Discovery Kingdom. Every single coaster there has been operating on solely one train this entire season, even at peak days. And 3 of the coasters haven't opened at all this entire season not to mention flat rides. The way the park and rides have been neglected is incredibly disappointing.
@@StationWait It makes absolutely no sense that they're treating the park this way. With California's Great America closing soon, they'd be the only park in northern California which has a huge population.
What are your thoughts on this rumor that Six Flags owns Marine Land now? Do you think they will build up a park close to Darien Lake or just quietly dismantle and close it despite the excellent location?
Assuming you mean the pre merger cedar fair bought it rumor, my first instinct is to wonder if they could have backed out with the merger involved. If not, it makes sense to me to make it a family park if they want to keep it to give variety with wonderland but honestly, sell the land from under it. Land in Canada is worth an all time high
I went to Darien in 2021 amd honestly it probably was the worst park I ever went too however I would be willing to give the another chance as it was covid times
I think that food expansions are the biggest draw for newcomers. I can't stand it when parks have the run of the mill slop. I would rather have quality food over quality roller coasters and my park is CP. I've seen rides come and go but when they got better food options I was so pleased. It isn't about getting new people in the park, it's about return rates. When a small park throws a huge ride in it usually kills the park, Geauga Lake. Aurora Ohio, I drive through it frequently. The park had no reason to be where it was. If you're complaining about the parking lot then they absolutely cannot handle a new major roller coaster. For a small park they can only really do one or two new things at a time. They are ramping up, I would imagine they are going to be getting better food options and quality of life expansions like the layout and parking lot.
Like I said, the lot needs to be repaved if they want to capitalize on the growth they’ve seen from the investments they’ve already done. The lot has enough capacity for a very packed park, I’ve been there on a day it’s sold out. But the infrastructure and the food come first imo and that’s why a new attraction was number 5 on my things to improve list
@@StationWait real and true, I'd love to visit the park sometime and I'll be keeping an eye on the park. It's only a little further than Kings Island from me and I like smaller parks.
I think part of what might be going on with management and improvements could also have to do with Gene Staples buying and reopening Niagara Amusement / Splash World (former Fantasy Island). That has the potential to take from Darien Lake some of the amusement park money within the region if it is done correctly. Many parks need both locals plus tourism to survive, and the two parks are only about 45 minutes from each other. For sure - enthusiasts are likely to visit both parks if going to the region, but locals are more likely to pick one of the two parks. Furthermore tourists who are not enthusiasts and just want to go to a park for a day are likely to pick one or the other.
DL is not tops in the attendance stats. For a park to make it into the top 20 for USA, they need to have 3 million visitors. I'm guessing DL is less than 1.5 million, which would put them with SF Discovery Kingdom, Dorney Park, Holiday World, and Kentucky Kingdom, which are estimated near 1.2 million. The things you mention are great ideas, but the suits don't have the money to do it. These parks are what I call Step Children. And yes, they should be advertising on billboards in airports, to all the people visiting Niagara falls. If a park is not a destination like CP, then the population has to be big enough to support it. Think about this, Carowinds has the #1 coaster in the land with Fury 325, and it's not in the top 20 for attendance. Even if DL does everything you mention, they still won't make it into the top 20.
Top 20 is tough when you have to compete against 6 Disney parks, 3 Universal parks, 2 Sea World parks and BGT and SFMM that are all open year round. That doesn't even consider CP, SFGAd, SFGAm and CW that are all seasonal but in major markets or destinations. That is 17 parks, only leaving 3 spots to hit top 20
@@sk610 Right, I wrote to AECOM asking them to expand the USA listing to 30 parks, but they said it would be too much work. The parks keep the attendance stats top secret which is a bummer.
lol you’ll never see a no marijuana sign at magic mountain our smoking area is basically for weed all the time I pass it smells good lmao 🤣 I haven’t seen some one smoke a cig in the smoking area in forever it’s probably cuz it’s California culture thing I be forgetting how the rest of the states are
I’ve tried before. I’ve been told by the person I mentioned knowing in the office that their social media/ PR person is kind of grumpy with a chip on their shoulder for a reason I won’t really get into here.
Camping at Darien Lake was an annual tradition for my family for so many years when I was a kid, I highly recommend it. Hearing Viper testing early in the morning, echoing from a mile away was magical, makes me nostalgic every time I hear an Arrow lift hill
Viper’s lift his is right up there with magnum for me
Interesting video. Even though I live in Buffalo I've had a season pass at Canada's Wonderland for the last 5 years because the few times I went to Darien Lake in the past I was sorely disappointed. The place was run down and the coasters were uncomfortable to say the least. I've been to other Six Flags parks and I've noticed general shabbiness compared to the several CF parks I've been to. My hope is that with the merger the SF parks will be brought up to CF standards. You brought up some interesting points. I think returning all the coasters to two train operations will be a big plus as will the retracking of Predator. I believe that being able to visit SF parks with a CF Gold Pass with all-park addon will also be a plus. I know that I'll visit more often just because it's so convenient (and included). I would also like to see the SF parks go to the CF Fast Lane option, which I think is better than what SF has now. I agree that Darien Lake really does need another big coaster to draw in crowds. A one-two-three punch with Ride of Steel, a retracked Predator and maybe a launch coaster would make it a good lineup for a regional park. And, yes, improve on the food options - the last time I went I spent $35 on food for two of us that was barely adequate.
Darien Lake is a park with a ton of potential. Make the place look better, add a new coaster and do a media blitz to showcase what's been done. Advertise in Buffalo, Rochester and even Syracuse and the Niagara region of Ontario. The place could easily be a highly-rated SF/CF mid-tier park. I would hate to see the place close down. I was brought up in Corfu and worked during my high school years at Darien Lake when it was only a campground with and arcade, bike rental, mini golf and general store. I'm talking back in the mid 1970's. Yes, I'm old. But I still love coasters and theme parks and I'm hoping that the SF/CF merger only brings good things to Darien Lake.
Visited Darien Lake back in 2022. I haven't watched your video yet, but I wanna share my input;
1. You can tell corporates gives zero f's about this park.
2. The staff that worked here, from food service, ride operators, you name it - absolutely were giving 100% to their jobs. This is something that you don't see everywhere
3. Predator felt surprisingly smooth and nice. I haven't felt that "rough" - the worst for me is old Wildcat at hersheypark.
4. investing massive into existing rides is 100% not something a park about to close would do.
This a great video with a lot of good info. Thanks for making it.
I have been going to Six Flags Darien Lake since I was a kid, and the last two years I have been a season pass holder.
It has definitely gotten a lot of quality of life improvements, that have been awesome to see!
I hope what you said about two train operations is true. With the uptick in attendances it will really help.
Also, I was told by someone in the park that Predator will be finished next year with the entire layout getting Titan track.
I would love a new coaster but I’ve heard that there won’t be one for at least another two to three years.
Lastly, I have heard people say that the park is landlocked. I find this to be very untrue.There seems to be so much space everywhere in the park. Especially where the old waterslides used to be.
The old water park/ slide hill could make for such a gorgeous coaster if they put one there! I’ve been saying that for ages now
I'm from Toronto and a few months back did a Cedar Fair mini road trip to CP & KI and had a blast with our chain wide seasons pass on top of loving a half hour away from Wonderland. We've already gotten the same pass for next year and have our eyes set on LaRonde and Dariend Lake as well as a few other East US parks. It's been about 17 years since I've been there and Ride of Steel was my first ever hyper and can't wait to see how much my interpretation of it has changed since I've become an enthusiast.
Welcome back, man! I visited Darien Lake for the first time a couple weeks ago, and I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of fun I had! I visited on the same day that I did Waldameer, so I didn’t have much time at the park, but I was able to get on everything in about two hours. But either way, it was a beautiful and decently well-run park that I am sure that I would have loved even more if I had more time to do so. It has the potential to become a big park in the Six Flags/Cedar Fair chain!
I completely agree. I feel that DL has some of the highest potential in the Chain. Already has the Hotel and Camping options ready to go. It's literally a half hour from downtown Buffalo (if even that long). Plus it hosts some of the biggest concert tours go through there every summer. There is also plenty of expansion room for rides and themed areas. The park needs to really spruce up all of its rides and buildings with fresh coats of paint and other simple modern touches. I feel it needs a coaster or other major ride that really pops on its Skyline both from the road and the concert Venue. I'll always remember the first concert I went to there and all I could see from the venue was Viper and the very top of Ride of Steel. It would help generate outside interest if there was some more interesting looking rides from the amphitheater. I agree it could use a major thrill coaster to help beef up it's line-up. Maybe a multi-launch of some variety as Moto-coaater is a nifty coaster, but it's definitely more of a family coaster then a major thrill one. Also it could benefit from a more unique coaster, maybe an RMC Wild Moose coaster would fit in nicely. So many ideas for this park I hope the New Six Flags will give it some much needed investments in the next few years.
I couldn’t agree with you more
I am hopeful they continue the upward trend. Ideally i would love EPR to sell to SF and let them invest as they want as opposed to what EPR wants to invest.
The REITs just want to milk it for as much as they can.
I couldn’t agree more
Even a couple high end flat rides would be a start. A swinging disc would be perfect where the Bigwheel used to be.
I didn’t mention flats because a new themed area should include them :)
@@StationWait so you're thinking it's going to be a Steamtown type theme like the other Six Flags park
I'm so glad you mentioned the layout of the park, that has been the most annoying thing regarding this park. It really does seem like they have a potential at this park to do something pretty good growing the reach of the park.
I almost never visit motocoaster because soooo out of the way but it’s a good little launch so I miss it sometimes lol
A lot of what you are describing, has been true across all of the Six Flags parks this year. They shifted their focus to a lot of infrastructure and beautification, because it was the biggest complaint about the parks.
This is my home park. It may not be the best to others but its one thing people in our city can be proud of and have fun at considering we don't have a lot of amusement parks in western NY. There is always a concert going on so that is one thing that help keep the business going. I think they should do a survey to see what the consumers may want to see and do in the park besides rides so there is always something to do. Thanks for sharing this video, great content!
I’d love a survey! Though the last one I’m aware of had an RMC and that never happened lol
Oh yeah, he is BACK! Love to see you back at it Josh. Hope the next one, even if it's a month, is just a station wait away!
I almost wanted to say SFA but well I was definitely thinking this too. Given SFDL is a resort, I can only see the Cedar Fair side wanting to capitalize on it.
Before the merger, I had my doubts that Six Flags would do anything worthwhile for the park.
Me too, across both of your points!
The moment you said what park it was I immediately decided to click off and not watch the rest of the video with an open mind.
But actually this is very interesting, it's really nice to see a video that goes into such detail on one park. Here's to a great future for the park!
I thought you were gonna say Six Flags St Louis because that park has really improved in the last few years.
Went to DL last July, as an add on to a trip for our coaster club. We actually had a pretty good time. Now that there is a combined pass, I will likely be going more now. I guess technically it is my SF home park. I'm glad to be hearing the good news you put out in this video. It was a beautiful park when we were there.
It really is underrated. It’s not the best park by any means but it has sooooo much potential!
@@StationWaitwe thought it was a beautiful park. Ride of Steel is freaking great! Maybe we will try the camp ground next time we go.
Love camping at DL, and combine that with a concert during the summer… it’s such an underrated park. I’m just excited we get two new Mind Eraser trains next year 😂
It's been known for many years that despite the 1 train ops the park owns at least 2 trains for every coaster (except Ride of Steel). Their reasoning for not using more than a single train at a time was to make them last longer and make maintenance easier, which I can understand, but when you're busy you need to move people faster on your marquee rides.
Viper in particular still has 3 whole trains...
Mind Eraser and Predator were in the worst shape, with both having "frankentrains" cobbled together with parts cannibalized from each other to try and keep them running past their natural expiration date. It was painfully obvious on Mind Eraser where you could see the odd colored parts on not matching trains.
Yeah I saw predator’s second train torn down to its chassis for parts last year so I have no hope for that one lol
I hate how much hate this park gets, literally just walk around and you’ll see it’s a nice park, it’s nice to see that someone else feels the same way that I do about this park
It is nice! The biggest change I didn’t mention was gory rid of all the black top, that would go sooo far imo
Even if they can't justify staffing or reworking the whole campground entrance/plaza, I'd love to just see a bridge in front of the cobra roll of boomerang. Nothing fancy just something similar to the small bridge you go over to get to Mind Eraser.
In addition to Covid, another deterrent for Canadians coming back, may be the cost of border crossing. Just this past spring the cost of the cheapest option, the NEXUS card was approved to go up from $50 to $120. These fee increases will take affect Oct.,1 2024. Remember, prior to 2009, border crossing was free with a simple document like a birth certificate to prove citizenship.
Great video, keep 'em coming!
Border crossing is still free. I do it multiple times a month. You just have to pay the toll to get on QEW back into Canada
@@StationWait Huh! They don’t ask for any passport, green card, or ID?
I did a little research and came to understand that NY is one of just 5 states that has an enhanced license program that is accepted at the border. Canada discontinued their enhanced license program in June of 2019. I don't know how long they last or how many Canadians got them but the reason for the discontinuation was reported as cost and lack of interest. The ones that were issued are good until they expire, but all that being said, Canadians (and most of the US) without the EDL are now burdened with the increasing cost border crossing.
I really hope this happens! I’m excited for predator and mind erasers refurbishments next year
HAHA!!! YES! I'm his friend and I had no advance knowledge, but TOTALLY knew this was going to be Darien Lake. Welcome back Josh!
Glad to have you back Josh!
As a kid in the 80s, I used to go to Darien Lake, Hersheypark, and Dorney since they were all about the same distance and pretty comparable. Over the last several decades, Dorney fell behind and Darien Lake fell way behind.
I also remember going to a Metallica concert at Darien Lake in the late 90s, hitting the amusement park before the show in the evening and the park was PACKED. What’s happened at Darien Lake is due to all the various owners and management issues over the last two decades, not a market size issue. If they get their stuff together and market to Buffalo/Rochester, this should be a strong park and a money maker. Needs to be in that order - they can’t market what they currently are to people they spent two decades alienating - if people come back and see the same old same old, they’re not going to give Darien Lake another chance.
I used to think like this too until I found the 2019 attendance numbers that disprove every part of the “attendance has declined over time” idea. Post six flags operating it again, it was still getting good attendance. Covid wrecked it, the data backs it up
@@StationWait What does the attendance trend look like from around 2000-2019? And how does that compare with other northeastern parks? Hersheypark attendance went from 2.6MM - 3.1MM (roughly) - so roughly a 20% increase in those two decades. Did Darien Lake see similar attendance growth, or was it basically flat for two decades? (I’m ignoring revenue per customer, although that would matter as well in a business analysis).
If I was involved in making investment decisions now, I think I’d rather see that it was flat or even slightly down from 90s attendance numbers. If it’s been seeing decent attendance growth for those two decades, it’d be much harder to convince me investing in Darien Lake would lead to strong returns. (It doesn’t help that WNY population is down roughly 10% from 1990, while central PA where Hersheypark is located is basically flat in the same time range…there’s a lot of headwinds for Darien Lake that they don’t have any control over).
Growing up nearby I only want the best for Darien!
Oh, Darien Lake? OK. For some reason I thought your video was going to be about how Cedar Point is going to "rise from mediocracy to greatness, or at least become decent." 😉
Darien Lake needs better food establishments, especially with INDOOR, AIR CONDITIONED SEATING!!! They got nothin'!
Just beaver brothers for indoor seating, but yes I agree
I have never been to Darrien lake but want to go. I agree to ditch the Pepsi for Coke. Same with the one in Oklahoma City
The biggest change that sf needs to make is it's ownership situation. Sf leases this park from epr properties. When it's time for an upgrade or addition, the capital comes from EPR. Given it's proximity to sf's two other properties I wonder if they will choose to buy the park or extend or end their lease. It's apparent that the new Six Flags will continue to keep Canada's wonderland as the areas flagship park. Only time will tell. I'm sure even if they continue to lease the park that we will see additions, though I doubt they will be anything on the scale of what we see at great adventure or fiesta texas.
Wow, great video. Worth the wait. :)
They really need some new flat rides also, other than Sky Screamer everything seems to be from the 80s or older. If they're moving to 2 train ops on everything for next year repainting Ride of Steel and Viper would really be a huge cosmetic facelift for the park
(glad to see you making videos again)
I’d imagine that a new themed area would also provide some flats, or I’d hope so anyway
I wish I wasnt so far from this part of the country. Seems like a charming park
One thing this park is lacking this year is shows, there aren't any this year and also the old Nightmare at Phantom's cave building has been vacant for years now. But I'm hoping that Cedar Flags will buy this park from EPR Properties so they can do more with it.
I REALLY considered trying to slide that specific building into the layout section, but I couldn’t make it work flow wise. I miss the old Batman show from when I was a kid so much
@StationWait A flat ride package would also be nice for the park to make up for all the rides that we lost the last several years and no replacements for them. I'd like to see another ferris wheel and a Zamperla giant discovery would be nice. Also, they could get rid of the eyesore batting cages that haven't been used in years.
The batting cages and go karts could make a killer plot. I’m rooting for a skyrocket 2 where the giant wheel used to be personally
@@StationWait a Sky Rocket II would be killer there and would really fit the park nicely, they wouldn't really need to worry too much about the capacity issues that sort of coaster has.
The loss of the wheel and Grizzly run are killers for me...on top of thunder rapids..I don't even bother to go anymore..I'm glad you say the park has been beautified somewhat..I long for the hershend days..they knew how to take care of a park
Everything must and will change. That goes with everything in life.
It really feels like they are preparing to shut down Discovery Kingdom. Every single one of their coasters have been operating on only one train this entire season. 2 of their major coasters have not opened at all this season. And flat rides are just neglected. I saw that the weather balloons in Looney Toons Seaport was almost non existent. I hope this merger saves Discovery Kingdom. I would be really bummed if this merger kills it
They also could be cleaning the park up to sell it. Hopefully they do improve all parks.
It’s possible for sure, I just don’t see them deciding to sell when they see direct profits from the investments. Time will tell though
Notice I only reference things that specifically six flags can do a couple times. Honestly, anyone can make these investments and pick the park up from the ground floor
@@StationWait well ERG already owns the park, I could see Six Flags dropping all the parks they don't own. Cedar fair leadership in the past doesn't like to invest into parks they dont own fully.
do u think frontier city or great escape will be removed and tbh great escape looks good and the new coaste bobcat has a cool theme so idk but frontier city we will have to see
GE, no way. Frontier city I admittedly don’t know enough about to answer that
I truly hope they do something with this park. I’m new in the area moved from nyc and great adventures being my home park Darien lake makes me sad every time I go. They have so much land they can build on.
Welcome to the area! The most important thing you can learn is to say “Go Bills!”
same here!
I miss great adventure being my home park and I am so frustrated that I didn’t ride anything when I was Gp since I was so scared but when I rode ride of steel and tantrum I became an addict wanting to learn more
My question is, is Six Flags fixing up the park or is it the owners? I think one of its biggest hurdles is that Six Flags on manages the park. I feel especially through Covid that may have hindered any investment by not having complete control. I feel that if the mind eraser area gets the retheme for 2025 the signs are good but it has to happen with the coaster refurbishment. Not trying to be negative I just feel there are some things that should have already happened
I’ve been wondering this for years and it’s one of the things that has kept me from making this video. I believe the beautification at least and the mind eraser refurb is six flags not EBR (the owners). I genuinely hope they just buy the park back in the future
I believe SF operates like seaworld, so parks individually have their own budget to spend, and depending on growth, profit etc, then the parent fund (six flags) allocates funding for new attractions. If they continue to perform well, then like fiesta Texas they’ll be treat well… I don’t think legacy cedar fair works like this though, I think the individual parks have more control and more of a criteria to match by cedar fair, and a budget to match the changes they make as a chain.. lots of really valid points though, but yes it’s truly in need of a stand out. If the six flags Mexico vekoma tilt does well that would be a cool idea here as a unique must ride.
On this, I’m not 100% but when six flags bought back Darien lake, wasn’t it just operation of the park? Owner is EPR Properties, which own 24 attractions e.g. water parks and other amusement parks… I’m not 100% but I don’t think corporate six flags are the ones doing investments at all and essentially they’re just splitting profits for being within the brand. Could be very wrong on that though. Seems probable purely since they don’t use the six flags IP.
I just found out the craziest thing. I thought buying an all park passport would be a bust for Canadians because at my home park (Six Flags Over Georgia) it costs $375 on top of your season pass. This is more than double the cost of the prestige pass, so it seemed to me like buying two season passes would be cheaper. However, for Canada's Wonderland, the all park passport is only $99 to add the all park passport to the prestige pass. I wondered if Darien Lake was more similar to Over Georgia, and it is. Likewise, Carowinds is similar to Canada's Wonderland. So, depending on where you live, it looks like it is cheaper to buy a legacy Cedar Fair park season pass with the all park passport than it is to buy a legacy Six Flags park pass with their passport. That's weird.
The price difference is because the VIP benefits transfer between parks at legacy six flags parks (or so I’ve been told), but I agree it’s really really weird
@StationWait Oh, I didn't notice that the Six Flags Gold Pass All Park Passport add-on is only $125. I'm so curious, though, because both websites have very similar wording regarding benefits working at other parks. It seems the main difference is legacy CF park benefits only transfer to other legacy CF parks, while legacy SF Park benefits supposedly transfer everywhere?
Darien lake has run 1 train on all coasters for at least the last 6 years. Viper has 2 trains
Like I said, can’t confirm most covid. I wasn’t sure. Tantrum is on 2 though currently so not “all” coasters
I'll tell ya, as my home park it sure feels like theyre getting ready to kill off Discovery Kingdom. Every single coaster there has been operating on solely one train this entire season, even at peak days. And 3 of the coasters haven't opened at all this entire season not to mention flat rides.
The way the park and rides have been neglected is incredibly disappointing.
It’s funny you say that, a lot of my enthusiast friends that visit often compare DK to DL
@@StationWait It makes absolutely no sense that they're treating the park this way. With California's Great America closing soon, they'd be the only park in northern California which has a huge population.
What about Six Flags America, a park that seems to be neglected by the company
What are your thoughts on this rumor that Six Flags owns Marine Land now? Do you think they will build up a park close to Darien Lake or just quietly dismantle and close it despite the excellent location?
Assuming you mean the pre merger cedar fair bought it rumor, my first instinct is to wonder if they could have backed out with the merger involved. If not, it makes sense to me to make it a family park if they want to keep it to give variety with wonderland but honestly, sell the land from under it. Land in Canada is worth an all time high
I went to Darien in 2021 amd honestly it probably was the worst park I ever went too however I would be willing to give the another chance as it was covid times
I think that food expansions are the biggest draw for newcomers. I can't stand it when parks have the run of the mill slop. I would rather have quality food over quality roller coasters and my park is CP. I've seen rides come and go but when they got better food options I was so pleased.
It isn't about getting new people in the park, it's about return rates. When a small park throws a huge ride in it usually kills the park, Geauga Lake. Aurora Ohio, I drive through it frequently. The park had no reason to be where it was. If you're complaining about the parking lot then they absolutely cannot handle a new major roller coaster. For a small park they can only really do one or two new things at a time. They are ramping up, I would imagine they are going to be getting better food options and quality of life expansions like the layout and parking lot.
Like I said, the lot needs to be repaved if they want to capitalize on the growth they’ve seen from the investments they’ve already done. The lot has enough capacity for a very packed park, I’ve been there on a day it’s sold out. But the infrastructure and the food come first imo and that’s why a new attraction was number 5 on my things to improve list
@@StationWait real and true, I'd love to visit the park sometime and I'll be keeping an eye on the park. It's only a little further than Kings Island from me and I like smaller parks.
Dude ..isn't Darien lake just run by six flags and owned by another company....seems that company has to pick up their investment game
It seems that all of the investments I mentioned in this video short of maybe the EV chargers were made by six flags
Interesting video, but it sounds like this is your home park so there’s definitely some bias.
I mean, everything I said is factual. The only opinion things I pointed out are the negatives at the end
i thought they sold this park 😭
They sold it in 2007 and resumed operations (they do not own it) in 2018
I think part of what might be going on with management and improvements could also have to do with Gene Staples buying and reopening Niagara Amusement / Splash World (former Fantasy Island). That has the potential to take from Darien Lake some of the amusement park money within the region if it is done correctly. Many parks need both locals plus tourism to survive, and the two parks are only about 45 minutes from each other. For sure - enthusiasts are likely to visit both parks if going to the region, but locals are more likely to pick one of the two parks. Furthermore tourists who are not enthusiasts and just want to go to a park for a day are likely to pick one or the other.
DL is not tops in the attendance stats. For a park to make it into the top 20 for USA, they need to have 3 million visitors. I'm guessing DL is less than 1.5 million, which would put them with SF Discovery Kingdom, Dorney Park, Holiday World, and Kentucky Kingdom, which are estimated near 1.2 million. The things you mention are great ideas, but the suits don't have the money to do it. These parks are what I call Step Children. And yes, they should be advertising on billboards in airports, to all the people visiting Niagara falls. If a park is not a destination like CP, then the population has to be big enough to support it. Think about this, Carowinds has the #1 coaster in the land with Fury 325, and it's not in the top 20 for attendance. Even if DL does everything you mention, they still won't make it into the top 20.
I didn’t say it was top, just that it was within 1% on a chain wide attendance level of SFFT pre covid
Top 20 is tough when you have to compete against 6 Disney parks, 3 Universal parks, 2 Sea World parks and BGT and SFMM that are all open year round. That doesn't even consider CP, SFGAd, SFGAm and CW that are all seasonal but in major markets or destinations. That is 17 parks, only leaving 3 spots to hit top 20
@@sk610 Right, I wrote to AECOM asking them to expand the USA listing to 30 parks, but they said it would be too much work. The parks keep the attendance stats top secret which is a bummer.
lol you’ll never see a no marijuana sign at magic mountain our smoking area is basically for weed all the time I pass it smells good lmao 🤣 I haven’t seen some one smoke a cig in the smoking area in forever it’s probably cuz it’s California culture thing I be forgetting how the rest of the states are
I would love to be apart of the social media team for DL! 🥲❤
I’ve tried before. I’ve been told by the person I mentioned knowing in the office that their social media/ PR person is kind of grumpy with a chip on their shoulder for a reason I won’t really get into here.