Goku: Trust that it's never too late to learn the error of your ways and strive to be better Vegeta: Prove yourself, learn from your wrongdoings or be shown the path of destruction they'll set you upon
Written July 20, 2022 Interesting. Vegeta’s wrongdoing gave him the path of destruction so he can learn what the regret of destruction feels like if he go too far Goku’s path of higher instinct is in direct competition to what vegeta is determine to prove as his wrongdoing lead him to this destructive power of regret Yin and yang but I think you for that quote
I love how powers in anime not just dragonball translate to yin and yang(positive and negative) via philosoph, ideology and way of life. Always so fascinating to me. Btw top tier content. 👌
@@reptilian_geneticist not at all... its quite obvious the amount of time and effort that was put into it, they're great writers people don't give them enough credit
@@reptilian_geneticist no, you should, the meaning behind the forms was explained in the video, you need to actually pay attention, it is so unlikely any of that was unintentional, vegeta literally says in the manga that the forms he an goku are using are of opposite concepts, and toriyama already obviously was inspired by journey to the west, everything in this video is based on fact and fits with the story perfectly, you need to pay attention, also, I see you're one of those people that spam emojis because they don't have a substantial point...
UI philosophy - your body moving freely UE philosophy - moving your body freely That’s why UE Vegeta says he’s limitless and takes damage head on. Now that I see these quotes I can see some of UE’s philosophy in UI, as your body moving freely sounds like it involves some sort of Ego
UE takes damage head on because the hakai energy just obliterates nearly all attacks as we saw with Vegeta vs Topo until Vegeta just went balls to the wall. That's not the best defense though - that's a waste of power unless it's only so you can strike as quickly as possible. The best defense is not to be there in the first place.
This was freaking good and clarified so much. It also shows even till now Toriyama is still taking inspiration from what gave this series life. I'll be listening to this one twice.
That part about Vegeta making people stronger is valid. Now imagine if Gohan sought out training from Vegeta as his master.. if anyone knows what Gohan is capable of its him.
This jordan lee guy makes great points and articulates really well. As a long time regular viewer of your channel content involving this man tend to be some of the best videos
I remember that during the universe tournament saga, speculations came out about two potential divergent forms of UI. The goku's one,more based on defence, the vegeta's more based on a fierce battle style. Here each one of us got served well at last.
I see Ultra Instinct/Ultra Ego like this: Goku & Vegeta must both 'lose themselves' in order to obtain the power/form/transformation (whatever you wanna call it). What do I mean by this? Goku: based on what Whis said about Goku's overconfidence and relaxed nature, it causes him to leave himself open for attack. While I don't fully agree with Whis' assessment of Goku, I will say we all know Goku is the guy who gets VERY excited at the prospect of a tough opponent. I think Goku needs to 'lose' that excitement in order to clear his mind/body/spirit basically a cleansing of sorts in order to obtain Ultra Instinct. Vegeta: Beerus told Vegeta to let go of the past sins of the Saiyans and EMBRACE who he was and the true nature of his race in order to properly utilize the powers of destruction. When we saw Vegeta's demeanor as he utilized Ultra Ego against Granola (probably spelt dude's name wrong), we saw the Vegeta of old; a savage warrior who lived for the thrill of the fight and taking hits in order to deliver even bigger ones to his opponent. Essentially, 'exploiting' his Saiyan biology of getting stronger the more he fights. Something of a 'godly Saiyan Zenkai' where his strength increases the more damage his body takes on during combat instead of needing to heal/recover first (really reminds me of Goku Black in the Future Trunks Arc...). All of the selfishness, pride and ego that Vegeta seemed to have cleansed himself of from the Saiyan Arc to the current arc of the DB Super manga needed to be brought back into his mind/body/spirit in order to obtain Ultra Ego. Overall, Goku must forget about who he is in order to use U.I. & Vegeta must remember who he was in order to use Ultra Ego. Hope that made sense :)
I do have to say, even though Super is no where near as influential or as well done as Z, it has done a great job at further developing Goku and Vegeta’s characters and nature. Which is kind of surprising when you think about it because if you’d watched up to the Buu saga, you might wonder “how can they further develop Goku and Vegeta from here?”, because both of them had pretty much reached the end of their character arcs, and it’s hard to imagine that they can go further from there. So props to Super for that.
I mean... not really. The only thing Super did was further cement the already existing single personality traits both characters have -- Goku is very pure-hearted and simple, Vegeta is very prideful and cynical. I mean, instinct and ego, that's... those are literally the names of their powers. It'd be like making a follow-up to Naruto and giving the protagonist an ability called "Never Give Up Jutsu" and calling that great writing. The very notion that the story's pushing onto the characters their traits as a potential Angel and God of Destruction is so unabashedly fucking stupid I can only presume they have exactly 0 plans on where the plot's headed and are solely implementing plot devices based on what they think people want to see in fights. Neither Goku nor Vegeta would fill into that role based on their development throughout Z. Goku would never simply allow Vegeta to extinguish entire planets just because the Zenos and the Grand Priest say that's his job. Likewise, Vegeta would never just go out of his way to murder innocent lives just because some god tells him to, especially if it means potentially endangering or even leaving his family -- and if they would, that would just invalidate an entire franchise's worth of development.
Considering they were constantly running to Kai's in that arc and for much of DBZ I would say that is incorrect. DBS is the natural progression of their seeking higher masteries.
@@mamayareborn If Vegeta does become a God of destruction, he does not have to destroy planets. He can be a more merciful God of destruction. It is not a law that gods of destruction have to destroy innocent worlds. Just look at Toppo, he is the God of destruction candidate for Universe 11. And his character is not such that he will erase innocents.
I actually really like this idea, it shows that everything is apart of something else and that there's no one right way of doing things. Thank you for explaining it to me, it does make me appreciate goku and vegeta's character more than ever. Not to sound like an ass but I never really thought dragon ball would ever go down such a thoughful route to power, at least when compared to other shows, just goes to show that dragon ball is a lot more profound if you actually bother to look beyond the screaming, well done guys!
Yeah because frieza is the kind of guy to want to create balance in the universe... he totally doesn't want to just rule everyone and everything in the universe under a iron fist
@@thelegendoflink9140 they are about balance sure beerus does take it overboard I don't know about the other gods tho in any case the role doesn't fit frieza wanting to destroy is just one of the criterias and frieza wants to rule and enslave more than destroy and if he was a destroyer he wouldn't be able to do that
@@bluesman402 Daoist philosophy is a branch of Buddhism integrated with Chinese traditions. Its basically an offshoot of Buddhism. And also I am talking about the source which is older than Buddhism itself . Which is written by J.Krishnamurthy read by Bruce Lee. Daoism is a recent phenomenon in comparison with the source I am talking about.
Goku with ultra instinct, that works for him because he's willing to put his trust in people(or his body) so MUI works for him. Vegeta with ultra ego, that works for him because he always had a hard time trusting anything but himself(especially in the cell arc) so ultra ego works for him because he can tap into himself(ego) gain tremendous power in get rewarded for it(unlike super saiyan were he trusted in himself, and android 18 kicked his butt). My final thoughts..goku has no problem "letting go" vs vegeta who "doesn't wanna let go". ultra ego works for him. Ultra instinct for goku.
@@SimplyHawa not so wrong. After the beginning of the moro arc, he told goku.."I prefer to win without you" goku felt the same. Yes he has learned somewhat, but he's first inclination is to "trust himself" above others.
@@SimplyHawa second I didn't mean he "dont trust anyone". But he "trust mostly in himself first" he's a CONFIDENT fighter. Ultra ego works for him because he has a "big ego".
@@SimplyHawaVegeta has always trusted himself more than others. He prefers to do things by himself because of his ego. Although he has let other people fight for him like in Gohan vs Cell, or Future Trunks vs Zamasu, that was only because he was unable to fight or knew already that he didn’t stand a chance against the opponent . Even then, he still played a role in the defeats of Cell and Zamasu The reason why Vegito and Gogeta exist is because he’s fusing with Kakarot, the man he respects the most and possibly the ONLY person he can fully trust besides himself. Look at the way he supported Goku from the stands in the tournament of his power, and had faith that Goku would complete Ultra Instinct. Or when he was watching Goku fight Kid Buu and did his iconic speech about Goku being number 1. He has never done anything like that for anybody else
@@matthewstanley2627 don’t equate his lack of asking for help, as mistrust. As you said, Vegeta rightfully has confidence in his strength, and that’s reasonable. After all he’s been through, that’s more than fair. Bro trains with gods and can become one himself.
I may be a dragon ball fan boy but ever since the first fight between Goku and Vegeta there has never been a rivalry/friendship that's captivated me the way theirs did. Sometimes it's subtle sometimes it's in your face but I feel that it is one of the best conflicts ever written about.
Would love to see once they master the forms, what could become of Vegito/Gogeta and what they do with the combined knowledge and experience of these forms.
Vegito/Gogeta after they master the forms, will be by far the strongest hakaishin/living being in all universes, second only to the Angels, Zeno and Zarama. By then Vegito won't be possible anymore, not with ordinary Kai's trinkets (since they retcon it). The trinkets would endure his power for one entire minute. hahahahaha If there is no "boosted" trinket, only Gogeta will be feasible. Which will be a shame because Vegito and Gogeta aren't actually the same thing, their personalities differ a lot. Vegito likes to play with his enemies and show off a lot, and he goes for the kill only as a last resort. While Gogeta goes for the kill quickly and do not play too much. So Vegito has a predominant Goku personality, while Gogeta has a predominant Vegeta personality.
@@cm5933 I agree I think the GP is a corrupted being that manipulates the Zeno(s). But unfortunately, that whole road of defeating the GP is pretty rocky because although I think it is possible, how would Goku and Vegeta convince the Zenos that GP was actually evil? Zeno has spent eons of time with the GP, so how would a simple statement change Zeno's mind? Maybe Goku and Vegeta could save Zeno from an assassination attempt from GP himself? I dont know.
@@Salvadorzin1 I don’t think that’s true seeing as vegito is also cocky while playful. So it’s a split I remember the earrings was the more powerful personality but I can’t see one being more dominant hence a full fusion. While gogeta is a literally a spilt half of a goku and half of vegeta so their personality is just straightforward no bullshit not really a fusion of personalities. Even when he talks you can hear both voices talking at the same time.
I’ve said this before but In the Kenichi manga. There’s Two types of Ki- Sei Ki which is basically Ultra Instinct all about skill and talent and stillness While Dou Ki is the more aggressive type of Ki it’s power up is basically like Ultra Ego it’s about Ki exciting the body.
This was such an awesome video! Edits were really good as well! So happy to see Jordan in a video with you Danny! I love all of the points you guys made!
This makes you wonder what could be in store for Gohan. Unlike Goku, he is an introspective scholar whom constantly analyzes. However, unlike Vegeta, his introspection is not designated towards ego. Also, let's look at the influences of the respective characters. Goku was trained by martial artists that developed instincts: Roshi, Korin, Kami, King Kai, now Whis. Vegeta was born a warrior via his royal lineage and his having to work with the tyrant, Frieza. Now, he is training with Beerus. All of Gohan's masters have been characters of deep enlightenment or gods of creation: Piccolo ( becomes wholesome, introspective, a part of Kami), Guru (potential awakened), Supreme Kai (god of creation), and Elder Kai (a supreme kai that unlocks his whole potential). This really makes you wonder what type of direction he could go....
I must say I've learned a lot from this video not about DRAGON BALL,but about the philosophy behind it.... TRULY a "Top Video"...Geekdom,best guest you had on here so far.
This is an ongoing problem with me..I have both aspects of Vegeta and Goku in me but I lean more towards Vegeta..In my life I've been compassionate and merciless.. I'm naturally compassionate and warm hearted like Goku but when you take advantage of that part of me I turn to Vegeta...I can be very arrogant and humble...I guess it the Gemini 2 Faces in me😂
Very interesting discussion on the philosophy. Also reminds me why I generally do not find eastern philosophies very appealing in a real world context. Also Toriyama himself operates on the instinct principle since he doesn't do a lot of planning and yet while it's not perfect, og Dragonball hangs together pretty well.
The 'overhearing/eavesdropping' thing is SO fascinating. I hear all of the time about how Toriyama made stuff up on the fly during his initial run of the manga, but this detail in particular demonstrates that not everything was on the fly. It's so awesome to think now that he always intended and had some idea of Vegeta being Goku's yin.
As much as I love the dynamic that is being developed between Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego it also complicates the original idea that the GoDs are trying to master Ultra Instinct from their angels and that they cannot be fully realized as deities until they do. Ultra Ego appearing to represent the pure essence of a GoD and hakai energy and the idea that only Vegeta can really grasp its potential implies that the power of Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego can't simultaneously exist within the same body and mind. That would imply that Beerus and the other GoDs can't ever truly master the Ultra Instinct that the angels use and are supposedly training them to master which is a theme that has existed in Super since Resurrection F. The only way I can redeem this is if the angels are also training themselves to master the art of hakai energy that the GoDs they tend to have mastered, and the reason the Grand Priest is confirmed to be canonically one of the top 5 most powerful beings in the multiverse is because he has mastered the ideologies of both Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego within himself and can use both freely.
I think for the most part the G.O.D.'s just dont have the right mindset like beerus sleeps all the time and is distracted alot of the time if he actually was serious I think he'd have already mastered it
yeah its a bit like beerus's power level being changed from BOG so that even with SSB multiplyer beerus is still far stronger than goku or vegeta so now goku has mui in theory he would potentially be stronger than beerus until the real power of the GOD' s ego ability has now come from somewhere to counter that but if it was planned its genius to have thought of it that long ago but even if it wasnt it is still a happy coincidence to have vegeta and goku gaining strength through different means and maybe even makeing vegito useless one day makeing them have to really work together for once
he discussed this concept to me before and it really makes sense about everything also man, my persona is shown at your vids and im extremely humbled about it XD
That’s why I’m hyped to ever see these two fuse and perhaps utilise both elements of ego and ui to make an ultimate power for vegito or gogeta ofc the fusion timer would be 1 second tho haha
Gohan should get ultra Anger. You would think his training with elder Kai would have granted him god ki. Surely there is a next level for unlocked potential Gohan.
With this video, both techniques now are much more awesome and cool drawing inspiration of many philosopical and legends eastern lores in respect of Goku and Vegeta's characters.
Goku is merciful Vegeta is merciless Goku trains with others Vegeta trains by himself Goku trains with a free mind Vegeta trains with a closed mind Goku chases after himself Vegeta chases after Goku Goku gives villains chances Vegeta tries to kill villains on the spot
This is actually interesting to hear, people can say what they want about super, but learning and listening to the info about these types of thing is what makes dragon ball interesting, this vid really peaked my interest, nice job to you and Jordan
Geekdom, this is probably my favorite video you have ever done! This is right up there with End of GT Explained! Great job Jordan and Geekdom. Hopefully we could make a End of Z Explained video too lol!
Ultra Instinct is the selfish within the ultimate selflessness. Ultra Ego is the selflessness within the ultimate selfishness. Ultra Instinct is becoming so absent of self that your instincts are in full control i.e. you’re being moved by your deepest ego. Ultra Ego is becoming so given over to your instincts that that your ego transcends yourself i.e. you’re being moved by your most impersonal instincts.
Amazing video geekdom very in-depth . That’s why you’re channel is Much more bigger than just dragon ball. It’s life in general, the correlation between the two it’s seen here. Continue with these types of videos there are great. :)
This was amazing the interpretation of. Vegeta was beautiful and I even had a better appreciation for Goku as well imma look up this book that is historic to see what it shows very interesting keep up the good work geekdom
This video was so cool, the taoist tie ins had me rushing to write down so many quotes. The sheer depth you highlighted behind this anime was incredible
So the question remains: How powerful would a hypothetical fusion between Goku and Vegeta be these days? Could they even still fuse, because they´re SO contrasting? OR would the fusion actually be EXTRAORDINARILY stable BECAUSE of the ying and yang?.... Interesting questions imo.....
@Lucin Good point. But how would you balance those two forces within one being, when they´re so vastly different from each other? I mean, would you just pick one to choose? You either use Ego or Instinct, depending on the situation? OR..... Would a fusion of those two ALSO create a completely NEW force? I think, that could be interesting, if that actually works out....
Love how geekdom brings this guy on who makes distinct and precise tie ins and geekdom immediately says, "I put this in MY previous videos." After every point practically, like shut up and let him talk lol
Bardock acted on the same instinct his son had which saved Goku & Vegeta in the future(when granolah hears the truth) the way Toyo connects to Toryiama ideas🔥🔥🔥
Ones they master these forms i hope they truly becomes equals. Equals like if goku and vegeta fought without killing goku wins but if its a fight to the death vegeta wins so it shows the danger of both characters on two different ways of fighting. Goku shows he is a true martial artist while vegeta shows true ruthlessness. Thats the only way the can be equal make both technique be dangerous on their specific battles. For tournaments mui should flourish while a life and death battle UE should also flourish.
Great Video Guys @Geekdom101 @Jordan Lee This was Very Deep Stuff And Talking in Depth About Eastern Philosophy and How it Ties to Dragonball!!! Wow!!!! Incredible Stuff!!!
"The original Japenese words for "Instinct" and "Ego" are similar," Toyotaro explains. "But depending on the kanji, or the reading, Instinct becomes "your body moves on your own", right? So that's Ultra Instinct. Ego, on the other hand, is "doing as you please," right? In short, it's the difference between your body moving freely and moving your body freely." Those are Toyotaros exact words and he says there's no separate philosophy lol. Its the same philosophy expressed in 2 different ways.
It be cool if uub ends up being a balance of the 2. I could see a scenario where his former destructive nature is still somewhere in him conflicting with his new more pure and calm nature, and he can find his own path between who he is and who he was and it builds up who he becomes. Not sure how far they plan on getting into that tho, it would probably take a considerable amount of time to do properly, and we still haven't even gotten to the end of Z yet so it's probably just a fan fiction idea at best lol
As I was watching this video, I remembered how smart Vegita is. He knows and learned a lot of history which I believe is another reason why he is such a great martial artist. Remember during the planning of the TOP it was stated that universe 7 had a low mortal level. What if that stuck with him and that's why he makes specific decisions in letting adversaries live!!! Just my take on the progression as I watched this video.
Journey to the West has been on my reading list for some time. This video helped inspire to start it. 24 chapters in, 76 to go. Appreciate the encouragement Geekdom.
Hope we will see Goku go back to komi lookout and let popo create clay version of himself just like dragon ball, train again also be nostalgic to;Keep up awesome and amazing job Geekdom 👍
Thanks for letting Jordan speak on your channel Danny. Super thumbs up. We know that geekdom could of explained this as well but he let another person do it. ✊🏻
I'm pretty convinced that this was not planned out from the start. But the way that they (Toyotaro and Toryama) finessed it, made it feel really natural.
I really want them to start going to different universes after granola arch , continue to teach others and especially have vegeta visit sadala and their king to finely move on from prince to king
While I’m not the big fan of the design or name I do like the idea of ultra ego. If instinct is trying to overcomes yourself for optimal movement ego basically forced you to embrace your worst traits and use them for your benefit. It’s fitting for the character, I just wish the name was better
I agree. Simply naming it Destroyer form or Hakaishin or something simple would work. Not everything needs to have a fancy name, just like not everyone needs to shout the name of their attack. Certain qualities that used to differentiate Dragonball from other anime have started their decay. I mean, why name it Super Saiyan Blue Evolution and not just Ascended Super Saiyan Blue, which appears to be just that.
Thank you everyone who tuned into this video! If you have anymore questions let me know!
Great work bud!
Fantastic job!
Ultra instinct is better version
Is ui stronger than ue pls tell
Fantastic work sir
Goku: Trust that it's never too late to learn the error of your ways and strive to be better
Vegeta: Prove yourself, learn from your wrongdoings or be shown the path of destruction they'll set you upon
Feel like vegeta's line is insinuated in speech as "I will demonstrate the path of destruction you are on using your body as an allegory"
Written July 20, 2022
Interesting. Vegeta’s wrongdoing gave him the path of destruction so he can learn what the regret of destruction feels like if he go too far
Goku’s path of higher instinct is in direct competition to what vegeta is determine to prove as his wrongdoing lead him to this destructive power of regret
Yin and yang but I think you for that quote
Its like a spartan vs monk
I love how powers in anime not just dragonball translate to yin and yang(positive and negative) via philosoph, ideology and way of life. Always so fascinating to me. Btw top tier content. 👌
Another example of this being naruto
@@demon_hawkeye5269 you seriously underestimate the authors lmao its not easy writing a series
@@k.agarwal545 ?
@@reptilian_geneticist not at all... its quite obvious the amount of time and effort that was put into it, they're great writers people don't give them enough credit
@@reptilian_geneticist no, you should, the meaning behind the forms was explained in the video, you need to actually pay attention, it is so unlikely any of that was unintentional, vegeta literally says in the manga that the forms he an goku are using are of opposite concepts, and toriyama already obviously was inspired by journey to the west, everything in this video is based on fact and fits with the story perfectly, you need to pay attention, also, I see you're one of those people that spam emojis because they don't have a substantial point...
I like how Goku called Ultra Ego freaky looking when this guy has Ssj3 lol.
I'm pretty sure if Goku turned ssj3 in front of a mirror, he'd start freaking tf out 😂
Bad writing
@@jesus2639 how? Goku never said he was handsome in ssj3. And in the Japanese anime, they mention many times his face was ugly in it. Or scary.
true Lol
FriendlyEnigma nailed it. Highly doubt Goku knows what ssj3 looks like.
UI philosophy - your body moving freely
UE philosophy - moving your body freely
That’s why UE Vegeta says he’s limitless and takes damage head on.
Now that I see these quotes I can see some of UE’s philosophy in UI, as your body moving freely sounds like it involves some sort of Ego
Feels good to know someone copied my comment👍
More or less yeah but not entirely. It's a different philosophy altogether.
@@clickmaster3692 it's just a comment my guy, you want a cookie or something?
@@thelegendhimself. Copying comments is lame; also, yes I want a cookie. Not chocolate chip though, sugar cookie.
UE takes damage head on because the hakai energy just obliterates nearly all attacks as we saw with Vegeta vs Topo until Vegeta just went balls to the wall.
That's not the best defense though - that's a waste of power unless it's only so you can strike as quickly as possible.
The best defense is not to be there in the first place.
This was freaking good and clarified so much. It also shows even till now Toriyama is still taking inspiration from what gave this series life. I'll be listening to this one twice.
Ultra instinct just looks so cool. Ultra ego is dope as well
That part about Vegeta making people stronger is valid. Now imagine if Gohan sought out training from Vegeta as his master.. if anyone knows what Gohan is capable of its him.
Gohan should become a kai apprentice. Would fit his passive nature
Gohan training with an Angel would be best
as seen with piccolo tough love does indeed work for gohan.
Vegeta has always had low key respect for Gohan. A What If scenario where Vegeta trained Gohan would be interesting.
@@midknightraptor3650 Bro Thank Yu 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Been Sayain That For Years ✊🏾
This jordan lee guy makes great points and articulates really well. As a long time regular viewer of your channel content involving this man tend to be some of the best videos
I remember that during the universe tournament saga, speculations came out about two potential divergent forms of UI. The goku's one,more based on defence, the vegeta's more based on a fierce battle style. Here each one of us got served well at last.
I see Ultra Instinct/Ultra Ego like this: Goku & Vegeta must both 'lose themselves' in order to obtain the power/form/transformation (whatever you wanna call it).
What do I mean by this?
Goku: based on what Whis said about Goku's overconfidence and relaxed nature, it causes him to leave himself open for attack. While I don't fully agree with Whis' assessment of Goku, I will say we all know Goku is the guy who gets VERY excited at the prospect of a tough opponent. I think Goku needs to 'lose' that excitement in order to clear his mind/body/spirit basically a cleansing of sorts in order to obtain Ultra Instinct.
Vegeta: Beerus told Vegeta to let go of the past sins of the Saiyans and EMBRACE who he was and the true nature of his race in order to properly utilize the powers of destruction. When we saw Vegeta's demeanor as he utilized Ultra Ego against Granola (probably spelt dude's name wrong), we saw the Vegeta of old; a savage warrior who lived for the thrill of the fight and taking hits in order to deliver even bigger ones to his opponent. Essentially, 'exploiting' his Saiyan biology of getting stronger the more he fights. Something of a 'godly Saiyan Zenkai' where his strength increases the more damage his body takes on during combat instead of needing to heal/recover first (really reminds me of Goku Black in the Future Trunks Arc...). All of the selfishness, pride and ego that Vegeta seemed to have cleansed himself of from the Saiyan Arc to the current arc of the DB Super manga needed to be brought back into his mind/body/spirit in order to obtain Ultra Ego.
Overall, Goku must forget about who he is in order to use U.I. & Vegeta must remember who he was in order to use Ultra Ego.
Hope that made sense :)
This is the best theory. It REALLY makes sense.
@@Waqas_Khan02 Thanks :)
This is pretty deep theory I gotta admit:/.
@@dmitribrutus5543 Thanks!
it makes perfect sense and i approve. budo is all about conquering yourself. you are dead on about goku and vegeta.
Having characters have a clash of ideas is what nearly every story does
It's topics like these that shows that beyond the surface level stuff people see in Dragon Ball, there's a lot more deeper meanings behind the series.
It's much deeper than this video actually. I have explained it in my comment.
No it’s not. Anybody could write an essay on how Caillou is deep 😂
Ultra Instinct: let go so the body can flow
Ultra Ego: let me go so I can go toe to toe
I do have to say, even though Super is no where near as influential or as well done as Z, it has done a great job at further developing Goku and Vegeta’s characters and nature. Which is kind of surprising when you think about it because if you’d watched up to the Buu saga, you might wonder “how can they further develop Goku and Vegeta from here?”, because both of them had pretty much reached the end of their character arcs, and it’s hard to imagine that they can go further from there. So props to Super for that.
I mean... not really. The only thing Super did was further cement the already existing single personality traits both characters have -- Goku is very pure-hearted and simple, Vegeta is very prideful and cynical. I mean, instinct and ego, that's... those are literally the names of their powers. It'd be like making a follow-up to Naruto and giving the protagonist an ability called "Never Give Up Jutsu" and calling that great writing.
The very notion that the story's pushing onto the characters their traits as a potential Angel and God of Destruction is so unabashedly fucking stupid I can only presume they have exactly 0 plans on where the plot's headed and are solely implementing plot devices based on what they think people want to see in fights. Neither Goku nor Vegeta would fill into that role based on their development throughout Z. Goku would never simply allow Vegeta to extinguish entire planets just because the Zenos and the Grand Priest say that's his job. Likewise, Vegeta would never just go out of his way to murder innocent lives just because some god tells him to, especially if it means potentially endangering or even leaving his family -- and if they would, that would just invalidate an entire franchise's worth of development.
Considering they were constantly running to Kai's in that arc and for much of DBZ I would say that is incorrect.
DBS is the natural progression of their seeking higher masteries.
@@mamayareborn If Vegeta does become a God of destruction, he does not have to destroy planets. He can be a more merciful God of destruction. It is not a law that gods of destruction have to destroy innocent worlds. Just look at Toppo, he is the God of destruction candidate for Universe 11. And his character is not such that he will erase innocents.
Ultra Instinct & Ultra Ego are not the only yin & yang. Goku & Vegeta are yin & yang IN GENERAL.
They basically just said that in it's video
I actually really like this idea, it shows that everything is apart of something else and that there's no one right way of doing things. Thank you for explaining it to me, it does make me appreciate goku and vegeta's character more than ever. Not to sound like an ass but I never really thought dragon ball would ever go down such a thoughful route to power, at least when compared to other shows, just goes to show that dragon ball is a lot more profound if you actually bother to look beyond the screaming, well done guys!
after seeing Ultra Ego, im thinking the God of Destruction role is more and more fitting for Frieza in the future.
Yeah because frieza is the kind of guy to want to create balance in the universe... he totally doesn't want to just rule everyone and everything in the universe under a iron fist
@@thelegendhimself. from what we've seen, the Gods of Destro arent really all about balance, more about what the whims of the day says
Hell no, he’d literally just destroy everything. No
@@SlimShadly we have never seen him doing that tho, for himself yes, but also with reason in a way xd
@@thelegendoflink9140 they are about balance sure beerus does take it overboard I don't know about the other gods tho in any case the role doesn't fit frieza wanting to destroy is just one of the criterias and frieza wants to rule and enslave more than destroy and if he was a destroyer he wouldn't be able to do that
The way geekdom interrupts his guests🤣🤣🤣 nah great video bro it's all love. Shoutout to jordan. Very solid points and well spoken.
This was a really solid video explaining the differences between Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego.
I love that ultra instinct is like Bruce Lee's water analogy. And ultra ego is taking the darkness within you and controlling it to your advantage.
Bruce Lee’s water analogy actually came from him studying Laozi and the Dao De Ching.
I agree with you 💯
@@bluesman402 His philosophy also came from read J. Krishnamurthy. And the source of philosophy is somewhere else .
@@phoenixj1299 there is no older source of Daoist Philosophy then Laozi.
@@bluesman402 Daoist philosophy is a branch of Buddhism integrated with Chinese traditions. Its basically an offshoot of Buddhism. And also I am talking about the source which is older than Buddhism itself . Which is written by J.Krishnamurthy read by Bruce Lee. Daoism is a recent phenomenon in comparison with the source I am talking about.
Goku with ultra instinct, that works for him because he's willing to put his trust in people(or his body) so MUI works for him. Vegeta with ultra ego, that works for him because he always had a hard time trusting anything but himself(especially in the cell arc) so ultra ego works for him because he can tap into himself(ego) gain tremendous power in get rewarded for it(unlike super saiyan were he trusted in himself, and android 18 kicked his butt).
My final thoughts..goku has no problem "letting go" vs vegeta who "doesn't wanna let go". ultra ego works for him. Ultra instinct for goku.
That is.. so wrong. Vegeta has constantly put his trust in others, even since the cell arc. VEGITO WOULDN’T EXIST IF HE DIDNT TRUST ANYONE.
@@SimplyHawa not so wrong. After the beginning of the moro arc, he told goku.."I prefer to win without you" goku felt the same. Yes he has learned somewhat, but he's first inclination is to "trust himself" above others.
@@SimplyHawa second I didn't mean he "dont trust anyone". But he "trust mostly in himself first" he's a CONFIDENT fighter. Ultra ego works for him because he has a "big ego".
@@SimplyHawaVegeta has always trusted himself more than others. He prefers to do things by himself because of his ego. Although he has let other people fight for him like in Gohan vs Cell, or Future Trunks vs Zamasu, that was only because he was unable to fight or knew already that he didn’t stand a chance against the opponent . Even then, he still played a role in the defeats of Cell and Zamasu
The reason why Vegito and Gogeta exist is because he’s fusing with Kakarot, the man he respects the most and possibly the ONLY person he can fully trust besides himself. Look at the way he supported Goku from the stands in the tournament of his power, and had faith that Goku would complete Ultra Instinct. Or when he was watching Goku fight Kid Buu and did his iconic speech about Goku being number 1. He has never done anything like that for anybody else
@@matthewstanley2627 don’t equate his lack of asking for help, as mistrust. As you said, Vegeta rightfully has confidence in his strength, and that’s reasonable. After all he’s been through, that’s more than fair. Bro trains with gods and can become one himself.
I may be a dragon ball fan boy but ever since the first fight between Goku and Vegeta there has never been a rivalry/friendship that's captivated me the way theirs did. Sometimes it's subtle sometimes it's in your face but I feel that it is one of the best conflicts ever written about.
Would love to see once they master the forms, what could become of Vegito/Gogeta and what they do with the combined knowledge and experience of these forms.
Same. They need to best whis and take on the GP. Bc honestly I think he’s evil and controlling the Zeno(s)
Vegito/Gogeta after they master the forms, will be by far the strongest hakaishin/living being in all universes, second only to the Angels, Zeno and Zarama. By then Vegito won't be possible anymore, not with ordinary Kai's trinkets (since they retcon it). The trinkets would endure his power for one entire minute. hahahahaha
If there is no "boosted" trinket, only Gogeta will be feasible. Which will be a shame because Vegito and Gogeta aren't actually the same thing, their personalities differ a lot.
Vegito likes to play with his enemies and show off a lot, and he goes for the kill only as a last resort. While Gogeta goes for the kill quickly and do not play too much.
So Vegito has a predominant Goku personality, while Gogeta has a predominant Vegeta personality.
@@cm5933 I agree I think the GP is a corrupted being that manipulates the Zeno(s). But unfortunately, that whole road of defeating the GP is pretty rocky because although I think it is possible, how would Goku and Vegeta convince the Zenos that GP was actually evil? Zeno has spent eons of time with the GP, so how would a simple statement change Zeno's mind? Maybe Goku and Vegeta could save Zeno from an assassination attempt from GP himself? I dont know.
@@Salvadorzin1 I don’t think that’s true seeing as vegito is also cocky while playful. So it’s a split I remember the earrings was the more powerful personality but I can’t see one being more dominant hence a full fusion. While gogeta is a literally a spilt half of a goku and half of vegeta so their personality is just straightforward no bullshit not really a fusion of personalities. Even when he talks you can hear both voices talking at the same time.
😂😂lkk😊😂j B I’m
CJ. 😅😅
Nicely done boys. Old school “In Depth” at its finest.
I’ve said this before but In the Kenichi manga. There’s Two types of Ki- Sei Ki which is basically Ultra Instinct all about skill and talent and stillness While Dou Ki is the more aggressive type of Ki it’s power up is basically like Ultra Ego it’s about Ki exciting the body.
also I’m just gonna add it’s really great seeing someone talk about the Six Eared Macque
Not entirely. There is only one ki/energy which has different outputs. Same electricity is used for fan ,light , T.V and so on. Same logic .
So Dou ki is basically what makes a saiyan a super saiyan then.
Sei Ki sounds like what you would need for mystic form or Saiyan God.
This was such an awesome video! Edits were really good as well! So happy to see Jordan in a video with you Danny! I love all of the points you guys made!
This makes you wonder what could be in store for Gohan. Unlike Goku, he is an introspective scholar whom constantly analyzes. However, unlike Vegeta, his introspection is not designated towards ego. Also, let's look at the influences of the respective characters. Goku was trained by martial artists that developed instincts: Roshi, Korin, Kami, King Kai, now Whis. Vegeta was born a warrior via his royal lineage and his having to work with the tyrant, Frieza. Now, he is training with Beerus. All of Gohan's masters have been characters of deep enlightenment or gods of creation: Piccolo ( becomes wholesome, introspective, a part of Kami), Guru (potential awakened), Supreme Kai (god of creation), and Elder Kai (a supreme kai that unlocks his whole potential).
This really makes you wonder what type of direction he could go....
I must say I've learned a lot from this video not about DRAGON BALL,but about the philosophy behind it.... TRULY a "Top Video"...Geekdom,best guest you had on here so far.
This is an ongoing problem with me..I have both aspects of Vegeta and Goku in me but I lean more towards Vegeta..In my life I've been compassionate and merciless.. I'm naturally compassionate and warm hearted like Goku but when you take advantage of that part of me I turn to Vegeta...I can be very arrogant and humble...I guess it the Gemini 2 Faces in me😂
Loved this video. Honestly felt like I was listening to my own inner dialog about this topic. Great take on it for sure. Thanks for the awesome video
One is about dodging and moving on instinct, while the other tanks damage and becomes stronger as the fight goes on.
Very interesting discussion on the philosophy. Also reminds me why I generally do not find eastern philosophies very appealing in a real world context.
Also Toriyama himself operates on the instinct principle since he doesn't do a lot of planning and yet while it's not perfect, og Dragonball hangs together pretty well.
It's actually much more deeper than that. Jordan made interesting points.
The 'overhearing/eavesdropping' thing is SO fascinating. I hear all of the time about how Toriyama made stuff up on the fly during his initial run of the manga, but this detail in particular demonstrates that not everything was on the fly. It's so awesome to think now that he always intended and had some idea of Vegeta being Goku's yin.
As much as I love the dynamic that is being developed between Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego it also complicates the original idea that the GoDs are trying to master Ultra Instinct from their angels and that they cannot be fully realized as deities until they do. Ultra Ego appearing to represent the pure essence of a GoD and hakai energy and the idea that only Vegeta can really grasp its potential implies that the power of Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego can't simultaneously exist within the same body and mind. That would imply that Beerus and the other GoDs can't ever truly master the Ultra Instinct that the angels use and are supposedly training them to master which is a theme that has existed in Super since Resurrection F. The only way I can redeem this is if the angels are also training themselves to master the art of hakai energy that the GoDs they tend to have mastered, and the reason the Grand Priest is confirmed to be canonically one of the top 5 most powerful beings in the multiverse is because he has mastered the ideologies of both Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego within himself and can use both freely.
You greatly overestimate the abilities of the writers.
Shit..that make sense to me. I like that idea
I think for the most part the G.O.D.'s just dont have the right mindset like beerus sleeps all the time and is distracted alot of the time if he actually was serious I think he'd have already mastered it
yeah its a bit like beerus's power level being changed from BOG so that even with SSB multiplyer beerus is still far stronger than goku or vegeta so now goku has mui in theory he would potentially be stronger than beerus until the real power of the GOD' s ego ability has now come from somewhere to counter that but if it was planned its genius to have thought of it that long ago but even if it wasnt it is still a happy coincidence to have vegeta and goku gaining strength through different means and maybe even makeing vegito useless one day makeing them have to really work together for once
@@unconcernedcitizen4092 lmaooo
Ultra instinct= slip counter
Ultra ego= let's trade blows and see who can last longer.
Great video!
Hearing your explanation made the forms that much more cooler and interesting.💯
he discussed this concept to me before and it really makes sense about everything
also man, my persona is shown at your vids and im extremely humbled about it XD
:)
@@bluesman402 There is also more to it. I am talking about the origin of UI and UE philosophy. I have mentioned it in my original comment.
Love this video, gave me a different perspective on the series and the future.
That’s why I’m hyped to ever see these two fuse and perhaps utilise both elements of ego and ui to make an ultimate power for vegito or gogeta ofc the fusion timer would be 1 second tho haha
Gohan should get ultra Anger. You would think his training with elder Kai would have granted him god ki. Surely there is a next level for unlocked potential Gohan.
With this video, both techniques now are much more awesome and cool drawing inspiration of many philosopical and legends eastern lores in respect of Goku and Vegeta's characters.
Love the philosophical stuff. I’ve learned the concepts of both forms. Very interesting.
It's deeper than that.
Goku is merciful
Vegeta is merciless
Goku trains with others
Vegeta trains by himself
Goku trains with a free mind
Vegeta trains with a closed mind
Goku chases after himself
Vegeta chases after Goku
Goku gives villains chances
Vegeta tries to kill villains on the spot
Geekdom you have no idea how long I've been waiting for this video
Will we see Vegeta and Goku finally begin fighting together in near perfect compatibility? This was part of their training they somewhat failed at.
I can’t wait to see ultra ego in color it’s gonna look awesome
*5 years later*
The best breakdown I've ever heard of dragon ball's Vegeta and Goku entire ideology
This is actually interesting to hear, people can say what they want about super, but learning and listening to the info about these types of thing is what makes dragon ball interesting, this vid really peaked my interest, nice job to you and Jordan
Geekdom, this is probably my favorite video you have ever done! This is right up there with End of GT Explained! Great job Jordan and Geekdom.
Hopefully we could make a End of Z Explained video too lol!
This is a fantastic video. One of the best.
LMAO and y'all talked about my favorite Roshi clip, we don't practice martial arts to beat our opponent, we do it to conquer ourselves!!!
I highly enjoyed this video EXCEPT Geekdom’s constant interrupting and plugging his old videos
@Jordan Lee was spittin so much fire, Geekdom had say "hol'd up hol'd up hol'd up" too much fire bro you stealing the shine
Ultra Instinct is the selfish within the ultimate selflessness.
Ultra Ego is the selflessness within the ultimate selfishness.
Ultra Instinct is becoming so absent of self that your instincts are in full control i.e. you’re being moved by your deepest ego.
Ultra Ego is becoming so given over to your instincts that that your ego transcends yourself i.e. you’re being moved by your most impersonal instincts.
Absolutely. But it's lot more deeper than that. I have explained it in my comment.
Amazing video geekdom very in-depth . That’s why you’re channel is Much more bigger than just dragon ball. It’s life in general, the correlation between the two it’s seen here. Continue with these types of videos there are great. :)
I just immediately think of Satsui no Hado (Surge of killing intent) for UE and Kyosui no Hado (Power of Nothingness) for UI
14:11 The giant Goku avatar who defeated Moro. But Vegeta's avatar is a dark Great Ape
Love this channel. Would watch it after school all the time now I'm getting back into Dragonball at 20, life is so fast
Another great breakdown I love vids like this kind of AAM vibes with the explaining giving this a 👍
This was amazing the interpretation of. Vegeta was beautiful and I even had a better appreciation for Goku as well imma look up this book that is historic to see what it shows very interesting keep up the good work geekdom
My mind is blown with all this knowledge. Awesome video.
Man, I fucking LOVE this video. Great job fellas!
This video was so cool, the taoist tie ins had me rushing to write down so many quotes. The sheer depth you highlighted behind this anime was incredible
So the question remains: How powerful would a hypothetical fusion between Goku and Vegeta be these days? Could they even still fuse, because they´re SO contrasting? OR would the fusion actually be EXTRAORDINARILY stable BECAUSE of the ying and yang?.... Interesting questions imo.....
@Lucin Good point. But how would you balance those two forces within one being, when they´re so vastly different from each other? I mean, would you just pick one to choose? You either use Ego or Instinct, depending on the situation? OR..... Would a fusion of those two ALSO create a completely NEW force? I think, that could be interesting, if that actually works out....
@@chanceneck8072 Maybe they can freely switch between the 2
Love how geekdom brings this guy on who makes distinct and precise tie ins and geekdom immediately says, "I put this in MY previous videos." After every point practically, like shut up and let him talk lol
I've been waiting for this! On my lunch break so I can enjoy it! The philosophy of battle:goku vs jiren was a good video.
Bardock acted on the same instinct his son had which saved Goku & Vegeta in the future(when granolah hears the truth) the way Toyo connects to Toryiama ideas🔥🔥🔥
Just Awesome Explanation Bro
Keep up the good work geekdom.
Danny, do more videos with Jordan, bro! It was great vid!
This guy is good. Have him back. This yin and yang with Vegeta and goku two sides of the same coin is amazing
This is such an awesome video, loved the discussion guys. 👏🏼🔥🙏🏼
Ones they master these forms i hope they truly becomes equals. Equals like if goku and vegeta fought without killing goku wins but if its a fight to the death vegeta wins so it shows the danger of both characters on two different ways of fighting. Goku shows he is a true martial artist while vegeta shows true ruthlessness. Thats the only way the can be equal make both technique be dangerous on their specific battles. For tournaments mui should flourish while a life and death battle UE should also flourish.
This was cool man. Glad you found this guy. Im gonna watch his shit now too
I´m so desperate to finally see the official colored Toyotarou design for Ultra Ego...... Can´t wait!
Great video guys one of your best bro bring Jordan back for another video
This was such a great video. You guys did a really good job on it.
ultra instinct: your body moving freely
ultra ego: moving your body freely
UI is your body moves on its own. and UE is do as you please.
Great Video Guys @Geekdom101 @Jordan Lee This was Very Deep Stuff And Talking in Depth About Eastern Philosophy and How it Ties to Dragonball!!! Wow!!!! Incredible Stuff!!!
Please bring Jordan back on, his knowledge really makes this conversation go to a great place.
"The original Japenese words for "Instinct" and "Ego" are similar," Toyotaro explains. "But depending on the kanji, or the reading, Instinct becomes "your body moves on your own", right? So that's Ultra Instinct. Ego, on the other hand, is "doing as you please," right? In short, it's the difference between your body moving freely and moving your body freely." Those are Toyotaros exact words and he says there's no separate philosophy lol. Its the same philosophy expressed in 2 different ways.
Yes. I have explained it briefly in my comment starting from the source.
Interesting
Since Goku & Vegeta are yin & yang, when the two fuse, they create balance right?
It be cool if uub ends up being a balance of the 2. I could see a scenario where his former destructive nature is still somewhere in him conflicting with his new more pure and calm nature, and he can find his own path between who he is and who he was and it builds up who he becomes. Not sure how far they plan on getting into that tho, it would probably take a considerable amount of time to do properly, and we still haven't even gotten to the end of Z yet so it's probably just a fan fiction idea at best lol
As I was watching this video, I remembered how smart Vegita is. He knows and learned a lot of history which I believe is another reason why he is such a great martial artist. Remember during the planning of the TOP it was stated that universe 7 had a low mortal level. What if that stuck with him and that's why he makes specific decisions in letting adversaries live!!! Just my take on the progression as I watched this video.
I'm excited for the official color of ultra ego tho. Will it be purple or black with shade of purple?
I think the black with shade of purple is the omen version and the mastered version will be purple
Journey to the West has been on my reading list for some time. This video helped inspire to start it. 24 chapters in, 76 to go. Appreciate the encouragement Geekdom.
So since he’s transcended and become a God, wouldn’t Vegeta now be the God of All Saiyans instead of the Prince?
I personally didn't want this vid to end 20 outa 10 guys keep rockin please ✌
Combining theese two philosophical ideas could be the ultimate egocentricual instinct of fighting
Hope we will see Goku go back to komi lookout and let popo create clay version of himself just like dragon ball, train again also be nostalgic to;Keep up awesome and amazing job Geekdom 👍
14:55 Hold on Geekdom. Toyotaro deserves some credit too you know. He did make Ultra Ego.
Love the video bro.
this video really made me love goku and vegeta even more
You should make a video going over if they traded each other's techniques. I wonder how it would change the way they interact in battle.
Thanks for letting Jordan speak on your channel Danny. Super thumbs up. We know that geekdom could of explained this as well but he let another person do it. ✊🏻
I'm pretty convinced that this was not planned out from the start. But the way that they (Toyotaro and Toryama) finessed it, made it feel really natural.
I really want them to start going to different universes after granola arch , continue to teach others and especially have vegeta visit sadala and their king to finely move on from prince to king
While I’m not the big fan of the design or name I do like the idea of ultra ego. If instinct is trying to overcomes yourself for optimal movement ego basically forced you to embrace your worst traits and use them for your benefit. It’s fitting for the character, I just wish the name was better
The design, fits with the form, it looks a bit more like Beerus.
I agree. Simply naming it Destroyer form or Hakaishin or something simple would work. Not everything needs to have a fancy name, just like not everyone needs to shout the name of their attack. Certain qualities that used to differentiate Dragonball from other anime have started their decay. I mean, why name it Super Saiyan Blue Evolution and not just Ascended Super Saiyan Blue, which appears to be just that.
Get over it
Love the Beerus shirt, bough one for myself and a friend during its first run. Online store is awesome bro keep growing your brand!