Norman Finkelstein: Was Obama an Intellectual Fraud?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Subscribe at Patreon for $5 a month to listen to the full episode now: / episode-106-w-56122018
This week, Briahna Joy Gray spoke to political scientist, activist, former professor and writer Norm Finkelstein about his new book on identity politics and cancel culture. Specifically, he asked Brie to critique his chapter on Barack Obama, and how his identity was weaponized to sell his 2008 candidacy as having revolutionary potential that could meet the scale of the Great Recession. History has shown that Obama's no leftist, but Finkelstein's critique goes beyond Obama's policy commitments (or lack thereof) to interrogate the extent to which the narrative of Obama as an exceptional intellect and politician is, itself, a fiction. Did Obama really earn his spot on the Harvard Law Review, or was he a beneficiary of White liberal guilt? Is Finkelstein overly strident in his critique, or is Brie overly sensitive about critiques that center Obama's intellect and ability rather than his policy commitments? What can we learn from the people Obama surrounded himself with -- from speech writers to senior advisors -- and is Brie right that how we critique Obama matters nearly as much as the critique itself? This was a hot one, but a good one.
Norman is an unstoppable force for truth and justice.
Norm is rockin old. post war, working class, east coast. immigrant american culture, italian, irish or jewish style. Brutal to talk to- tough as nails, pleasant as torture, a voice like cats dying, but can be lovely at heart. Bless this man.
Great guest! a true hero who has paid the price for intellectual honesty.
He deserves way more respect.
This Professor guy is a jealous nobody. He thinks he should be as important as Obama. You can hear the Professor’s emotion in his voice, it’s personal. Obama may be one of the most intelligent Presidents we have ever had. With complete opposition from the GOP, he used the GOP’s own health care program and got the GOP to oppose their own health care creation that they were testing in Massachusetts AND Obama pulled us out of the GOP’s 2008 Great Recession.
@@obijuan3004 Golly gee what an accomplishment
@@obijuan3004 Also that recession started from Clinton era politics.
@@obijuan3004 So you have the power to see into Finketstein's mind and emotions? Wowie Zowie! Obama's a fraud, and a murderer of untold innocent's via the drone programme, which only grew on his watch. Perhaps you're in awe of his vast wealth? Norman Finkelstein's a giant in any case, and a colossus compared to the neoliberal fraud Obama.
Here is the subtext of why this interview is so contentious. Finkelstein observes, correctly, that what usually passes for "intelligence" in the US is actually "marketing." We do not have a meritocracy. By training people to admire Harvard Law and its culture, we train people to do damage. It may be very difficult to Study "Law" at Harvard, but its rigor is completely uninterested in truth. Studying this way mocks the very concept of justice. It desires pomp and spectacle; it seeks fame and money; it also seeks to make itself appear righteous at all costs in order to protect the enormous privileges associated with it, leaving us with the delusion of "changing the system from within."
🎯
Marketocracy not Meritocracy
Your sound reasoming may be generalized/extended to Western Thought proper, including Western conceptualizations regarding, e.g.z Physics, Mathematics etc.
As someone very interested in true crime from the justice perspective more than the entertainment one, I agree 100%.
The awe of celebrities is lethal. That is is people who just attended this, that and the other and therefore gets an aura of respectability without relevance.
And the masses falls for it
Obama did say he was going to end the wars, close Guantanamo, clean up Wall Street and get us single payer. It wasn’t just, “elect Obama “. My problem with Identity Politics is that people only see color or sexual orientation or gender and forget to look at character. You’ve taught me a lot Norman, thank you for all your sacrifices.
Obama as a candidate never said he was going to “get us single payer.” In fact, he said that single payer would be “hugely disruptive” and regurgitated Herndon Alliance talking points that we needed “a uniquely American solution” to health care reform (because, presumably, people in the US have “uniquely American” medical needs). He did, rather specifically, oppose a mandate in health care, a position he promptly broke with when in office.
At the time, I thought he promised those things...but it's not clear that he did.
@@jeff__w A sign on the podium says "AFL-CIO Civil, Human and Women's Rights Conference," and Obama sounds like he's giving a campaign speech:
"I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that's what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. That's what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we've got to take back the White House, we've got to take back the Senate, and we've got to take back the House."
9:38
12:34
Professor Norman is the voice for the voiceless. He stays consistent, honest and a man of integrity. It's true he speaks for long periods, but there is no propaganda just straight up truth.
Norm gave up his livelihood and was silenced by a full establishment effort for speaking the truth. He has paid the price while others got rich tempering their “tone.” Your analysis is spot on.
@@bigman50505050505050 Thank you Joe, I've been following the Professor for over 15 years. I knew that he was a principled man from his position of Israel invading Lebanon and he was on the streets protesting the invasion. He has also spoken out against the Israeli government and the oppressed treatment and apartheid against the Palestinians. God give him a long healthy life. I know he's an agnostic, but all I can give him is prayer. :)
The man brought up Ibrim X Kendi, not even to critique his ideas, but to make a negative comment about his hair. He’s a racist. And so are all of you who had no problem with this cringe fest of an interview
Norman Finkelstein's recognition that Identity Politics balkanizes and fragments the working classes is of crucial importance. Identity Politics is a form of divide and conquer
That was some good observation in my opinion. Gave some good backstory and insight into Obama's mentality that selected Joe Biden as his VP a whole mess.
The fact that Larry Fink of Blackrock said "we have to force a change in behaviour regarding race and gender" tells me a lot about the coercive nature and real motives behind identity politics. Weaponising issues of race and gender will give the monopoly corporations immense power to cancel any businesses that are not buying into their invention, the ESG game.
Love prof. Finkelstein. And I have no problem with how he comes across to people who already had their opinions on him set long ago.
I've never even noticed him particularly, and so, no. He should stick to the point and not digress into frivolous ad hominem attacks which only detract from an otherwise persuasive argument.
@@myrmaad I agree.
The reason you haven’t heard from him is because the establishment took painstaking effort to ruin his career and silence him. He has the moral authority and paid a serious price for speaking the truth while others got rich tempering their “tone.” We should listen to him.
Dude says himself in the video that he's NOT a Prof
@@JH-ji6cj he never made it to the rank of professor before he was driven out of Academia by people like Alan dershowitz
Here is the problem we have, when Black America allowed Obama as the Avatar for Black American achievement. When we did that, we had to embrace all of it. So, when he decided he would serve his donors and corporate backers over, Black America, the Middle Class and Working Classes. We opened ourselves up for the inevitable tear down of the man and the symbol he represented for Black America. Now, there is a strong argument that, Obama like every other President did what was expedient for his own wealth, advancement after leaving office, and donors. The problem is he was also an Avatar for Blackness and Black American Achievement. So, when we allow Norman Finklestein to lodge critique fair or not at Obama, we don't know if that is also a critique of Black American achievement by proxy as well. For the Baby Boomer Black Americans and the Silent Generation Black Americans this is traitors' folly. However, it was these same generations that demanded very little of Obama beyond virtue signaling and identity politics. We all witnessed almost no social nor economic policy to help Blacks specifically, from Obama, and the greatest confiscation of Black Wealth through the Sub Prime Fiasco in history. No prosecutions from Obama at all. We even got him singing Amazing Grace at the death by a senseless police killing of a Black youth. Amazing Grace was a song, written by John Newton in part to praise his repentance for raping Black African Female slaves on Slave Trading vessels. The spectacle of this, by our supposed Black American Avatar and Brilliant 3D Chessmen, Ivy League elite was stomach turning. How could anyone be that dense and off key in their ignorance, yet somehow Obama and these same Baby Boomer/ Silent Generation supporters were. it was just breathtaking, wasn't that the Fred Hampton Generation? What the hell happened. I guess Cointelpro worked. As was some of Finklestein's critique, again stomach turning, whether fair or not. Obama is such a troubling figure it's hard to know how to defend him except to say he became the 1st Black American President. That was something I never thought I would see in my lifetime. However, the Obama Presidency showed us how much Meritorious Manumission Negro behavior is necessary to lead the US and with us as a Body Politic for him to do the job and remain in it. I mean how much Neo-WS behavior did the man endure during his 8 years. Again, breathtaking. It's an indictment of us all as a country and him as an individual. Thank you for the interview Bri!
My friend...you truly nailed this on the head.
Couldn't have said any of this better myself. Wow you nailed this perfectly 👌🏽
That's probably why you should look at people as individuals rather than as an avatar for class and race. People would definitely be more clear sighted on Obama if that was the case.
@@adtastic1533 well that's a deeper problem in this "American Idol" society that needs to be discussed about.
Obama is biracial.
His Mother was White.
Any Black this / Black that branding hypothesis is silly.
Why should he have done anything more for one race of Americans over another?
Foolish me, i voted for him in 08 because I thought he was a true progressive.
I voted Green Party in 12 because I could clearly see what a fraud & war criminal he really was.
Identity Politics is the poison we drink thinking it will kill some one else.
No thanks
Want MORE of Norman's interview! Love this guy, nothing but integrity!
There's a longer interview on the podcast but you have to pay for it.
@@web-angelHope they make it public at some point😣
If I saw him on the street I honestly don’t think I’d be able to resist an immediate strong long hug 😅
Was thinking the same at the end of the full conversation when BJG cut the interview short
How the hell does it the rails the argument concerning Valerie Jarrett? I’m black and I agree with Norman
Oh, how I love these two, even when they sort of step on each other's toes.
Brihanna is a genius, Norm is a force of nature. This is gold.
This is a very compelling and much needed conversation.
I love Norman Finkelstein with all my heart. I applaud you and anyone for giving him a voice
Wow just wow!!! Norman Finklestein has proven to be a voice of reason and compassion in the midst of so much cultural garbage. What a gracious man!!
I really enjoyed this mans stance. He’s snarky but he’s speaking his truth. 💪🏽💥
Brianna's critique is spot on.
🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢
@klopek24 I honestly felt the same way. I believe Brie was being overly cautious and reprimanding an older person for the language he used, which is that of his generation. I was able to catch his point clearly, but Brie fixated on the ‘issue’ because she sees how current left voices behave (a bit over-dramatically imho) I thought she was probably correct, but not right in her assessment
@klopek24 excellent point - same with my grandparents. never sat with the possibility that it could create a dissonance with those not familiar, kudos to you for aptly pointing it out
Briana is generally fantastic, but she sometimes has a tendency to try to persuade more radical voices to censor themselves. I find that a bit troubling.
The bizarre debate she moderated between Glenn Greenwald (a true radical in many ways, but not all) and Nathan Robinson (a faux-leftist who most people have never heard of) was an interesting example. It was almost as though they were putting Greenwald on trial, for the crime of hurting people's feelings with raw truth. To Gray's credit she did tend to side with Greenwald, but still, the push to temper Greenwald's style of uncomfortable truth telling was on display.
One gets the feeling that if Malcolm X (a real radical through and through) were a guest on her show, she would periodically interrupt, saying variations on, "I agree with the substance of your positions, but the way you present them is turning off potential allies. Don't you think you should tone it down a bit?"
Can I just say Briahna is one the most aware nuanced intellectual we got in this era? The way she articulates the issues and the way she painstakingly talks about issues and everything around them is just impress me every time I listen to her. And of course her straightforwardness toward anybody. Even someone like Finkelstein who is respected in many ways in "far" left circles and of course admirable for his takes on Palestine as a Jewish person in the U.S.
Good on you Briahna.. keep it up
Obama isn't a genius, but I think Briahna might be.
Indeed...Ms. Grey is a thinker in the richest sense of the word, Mr. Finkelstein is a thinker in a more limited sense of the word. But it takes all kinds...
She's not hardcore enough to be called an intellectual. If she were truly an intellectual her critiques would go deeper.
I like Bri too. But she missed most of norms points, choosing instead to hyper focus on his imperfect speech.
@@bigman50505050505050 She was talking about the pragmatic effects of his speech style, and its persuasive power, and explained why it lacked such power in the current political realm. The lady is brilliant, IOW. She really is. But yeah, I do see your point in privileging content over style. If only everyone did!
I met Obama in Dec.2002 in Peoria, Illinois at an Illinois U.S. Senate forum. I may have met him earlier when I was Chairman of the Illinois House Education Appropriation Committee in the early 1990s. We set up meetings for Obama with Maytag laid-off employees in 2004 which he used in his campaign U.S. Senate TV ads, and then abandoned them when it came to doing something about neo-liberal economic and trade policies.
That is the type of person Obama was. He used people for photo ops. Then dumped them when they actually expected him to deliver. I feel loke the squad and AOC arelearning from the Obama play book. And it will cost them and the democrats greatly.
@@madashell7224 In 2010 I started to think something was awry by 2011 and OWS I knew. His legacy is Trump and Trumpism. Just my .02.
@@madashell7224 I thought at the time that his 2004 "there are no blue or red states" speech was either the most calculated or dumbest thing I'd ever heard. We know now it was the former.
I feel like AOC is gearing up to be the next obama
Obamamania was in full effect and it was tough as nails to criticize him for his establishment politics and war-hawkishish nature. IMO.. he was the perfect choice because even though you used substantive arguments they can just say give him a break he's the "first black president."
Finklestein does....not...give....a....not even a.......single........FFFFF!! LEGEND!!!
Yup. He's successfully alienated everyone with his self-righteous, never-ending bullshit.
@@phasespace4700 and yet you keep clicking on, watching, and commenting on videos that he is in
@@keiljones2902 He's fun to expose. So what?
@phasespace: he was alienated by the establishment elites in a full throttle effort to ruin his livelihood and censor his speech. His crowds and appeal got too big. Your boys in the corporate establishment already did the work for you bud.
@@phasespace4700
You ain't exposing jack.
Who on the left “writes off” Norm Finkelstein? I think what we see here is another individual (Norm) jaded with the political system and another (Brie) who still has hope. We need to start listening and giving more credulity to those who came before us - Norm Finkelstein, Chris Hedges, 👉WEB DUBOIS👈 that are reflecting this growing intolerance for the political system and the theatre that occurs therein. The elders are not going crazy - theyre seeing the grift that our “democracy” is!
“Grift” is the word. Obama is the greatest grifter in our nation’s history.
One has to appreciate genius.
He did slip up when he pretended to drink poisoned Flint water.
I write off Finkelstein. He's become a kook. Even the cause he led or claimed to lead on Palestine has dropped him like a bad habit due to his psychotic pronouncements, which stopped making any damn sense a long time ago.
@@phasespace4700 source
@@freelance_commie Source is Finkelstein on his own site, stating again and again that he's no longer invited to speak at pro-Palestine events, which is not surprising given the vile and idiotic things he started saying about single state and BDS.
@@Clusterboy I'm sure we all realize this, but the thing of course is, we're all "grifters" under capitalism to one degree or another, it is the "cold cash nexus" that serves as the foundation of generating its tidal forces of creative-destruction.
_"The bourgeoisie cannot exist without constantly revolutionizing the instruments of production, and thereby the relations of production, and with them the whole relations of society. Conservation of the old modes of production in unaltered form, was, on the contrary, the first condition of existence for all earlier industrial classes. Constant revolutionizing of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones. All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind._ (might've jumped the gun on that last part...lol...)
_"Modern bourgeois society, with its relations of production, of exchange and of property, a society that has conjured up such gigantic means of production and of exchange, is like the sorcerer who is no longer able to control the powers of the nether world whom he has called up by his spells."_
But yeah to add to the list, Marx of course, Lenin, C. L. R. James, Gramsci, Guy DeBord, Baudrillard, David Graeber, Michael Hudson, David Harvey, hell dare I say Zizek?? *_*sniff_** But yeah I guess the point of my screed here beyond trying to highlight how "grifter" may not be such a useful term within the society we exist, is I agree wholeheartedly with OP's notion to examine the past where folks were facing the very same core civilizational social bondage in some form and hopefully learn from their ideas/experiences, further enlightened by their historical contexts/veracity, basically sort of Deleuzian sentiment to explore _all_ dat ish if possible/have no life like myself lol. Really even "written off" or genuinely grotesque but influential strains of thought, especially like Carl Schmitt or something cuz that guy, despite/because of being a literal nazi, well detailed the blueprint of Liberal "politics" under capitalism, friend/enemy distinction as "politics" itself (Concept of the Political), and from this devising the political tactic of exploiting the inherent Liberal denial of this and their tendency for capitulation to over time gain enough institutional power that a full-takeover cannot be resisted (might sound familiar...lol...) as well as the "sovereign" as the _exception_ to law not merely the leviathan enforcer legitimized by consent of the governed or whatever the far more idealistic/less cynical mainstream thought was before him (CIA really took that to heart...lol again...). That "know your enemy" Sun Tzu shit or whatever.
And yeah goes without saying probably, but I too want to say it, Barfsac Obungler is such a piece of shit, his mother's occupation of World Bank/IMF "washington consensus" -debt-peonage/resource extraction- "structural adjustment" austerity policy advisor, "soft" imperialism through currency hegemony basically, offers a continuum for how he turned out...I believe specifically involved with Indonesia and Sukarno (on that note of course see: The Jakarta Method by Vincent Bevins).
I just love how blunt and honest Norm is 😁😁🇬🇺👋🏽
Tough, thoughtful, relevant, as always, Finkelstein tells the truth NO ONE wants to hear.
I don't think NO ONE wants to hear it. Maybe that is the impression to be given.
Briahna is fiercely respectful and unerringingly kind & generous to her guests. That kind of inner strength isn’t very common these days. These characteristics and her intelligence result in many great interviews. It’s something to be grateful for in an era when humane qualities are infrequently prioritized.
Briahna is everything you mentioned and even more. She is well informed making intelligent, fair and empathetic arguments 🤓, amazingly, outstandingly and impressively articulate🤯, and impeccably stylish🤩. A great interviewer and a joy (no pun intended but it works) to listen too and learn from. 🫠
lol fiercely respectful, she keeps trying to cut him when he is tearing down her idols Obama and Valerie Jarret. "You have to be careful" she told him when he mentioned Jarret being light skinned. That is not how a debate is conducted. She wants to tone police and wants intellectual subservience to black leaders from a white man even if she herself doesnt agree with the black politicians in question
Yaaas queen. Go off!
Bri and Norman are two of the greatest, he's on point about Obama...dude literally had two chances to place a black woman on the Supreme Court
Doesn't matter.
Why a black woman ?
@@jncc1701 they are the future of humanity
@@taboowriter9229 😀 *brown person checking out*
@@jncc1701 why not a black woman, friend.
Mr Finkelstein is 100% right on his critique of Valerie Jarrett and Obama . It's an "ugly" perspective but it is the truthful perspective that you dismiss at your own peril .
No he's not. And it's not his place to question their blackness and say Jarrett had nothing to do with black people.
@@freedomm So true. Trust that Valerie as well the Jarrett that she married into were very proudly and loudly Black. Vernon Jarrett was their patriarch; I urge all of you to look all of them up. But for them and their era.... That this chick, whoever she is, gives this typical wh*te envious liberal a platform to spread this poison is appalling. She called me a "boomer" for saying as much, whatever that means; I do believe he's older than me, so...?
@@freedomm He know's Jarrett's gruesome history with black people not only that the only thing that makes her "black" is the antiquated one drop rule. She did her ancestry on Skip Gates show on PBS and she was barely black. Brie was missing the point and just talked over him defending Valerie Jarrett's Blackness.
@@demionriddick4809 If she says she's black, she's black. This is not an Elizabeth Warren situation. And for a white man to question black peoples' blackness is the very definition of racism. The "you're not black enough" trope. Also, the way he personally came at Obama trying sow doubt about his academic achievements and questioning his intelligence is no different than the right wingnuts who were demanding Obama's transcripts - "prove to us you're smart enough for office" - something they never did with Donald Trump or any other president or white candidate. Black people know that some of the most racist people claim to be progressive and on their side, and this man is a perfect example of one. Seriously, this is one of the most disgusting things I've seen on UA-cam.
@@freedomm His whole point and Adolph Reed's point might I add is that Identity politics get in the way of progressive politics. Obama DOES NOT come from slaves! Like Mitch McConnell pointed out he comes from SLAVE OWNERS!!! And we spent the better part of 12 years combined talking about how idiotic and unintelligent both Bush and Trump were. The difference is nobody is going around trumpeting about how smart either of those bafoons were. If you find yourself defended Obama or Jarrett take a step back and ask yourself. Why? Who does this help? Lastly if this is one of the most disgusting things you've seen on youtube then you might not be built for the fight.
We focus too much on individuals and not enough on structures. The President of the United States is the head of the executive committee of the U.S. bourgeoisie, period. The rich people who fund both parties will never allow someone who acts differently to occupy that position. If we focus on the structure and not the person, we can get away from time-wasting debates about personalities, which provide fodder for (usually bad faith) liberal accusations of racism/sexism/etc. if the person in that position isn't a white male. Why is the U.S. left getting distracted from structural analysis? Who cares if Obama likes ESPN or about Valerie Jarrett's skin tone? People need to read Marx again.
"The executive of the modern State is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie." - Manifesto of the Communist Party, Karl Marx
@@infiniteinfiniteinfi The modern masses have no interest in Marxism, and likely never will. Should stop putting so much emphasis on, and pushing intellectualism, when the issue is the mindset, of the masses of people. It isn't just religion, or it is, if pop culture has, as powerful a hold, on the thinking of everyday people, and influences their value. You will have a hard time getting most people to care, whether Obama was a political fraud, given the percentage of people who don't vote. They certainly have no interest in debating whether he was an intellectual fraud.
@@siriuslyspeaking9720 lol. My whole point is that his personality should be irrelevant to the left.
@@beyondaboundary6034 My whole point is that the masses of Americans have no interest in Marxism, and likely never will.
@@siriuslyspeaking9720 I was talking about the left, not the entire population, so you are contradicting a claim I didn't make. Saying the left should get back to structural analysis and materialism and not focus on BS personality issues isn't the same thing as claiming everybody and their mom is going to fly the hammer and sickle flag tomorrow. I also couldn't care less what you think about Marxism.
Briahna you are exactly the kind of person we need in public office. You’re a true leader and a real truth teller.
BJG 2024
All who go in shift to the right.
Jesse Ventura/BJG 2024
@@horhay3608 That that's a given is magical thinking.
I agree completely. She's courageous, deeply moral, rational and her depth if knowledge for one so young is incredible.
I luv Briana… and its odd that she felt she had to caution Norman because he’s “Not Black”, and Norman perfectly counters the argument: why would Obama omit the leading black intellectual, Cornel West, from his advisory of mostly white uhm… folk!
Agree. Briana is generally fantastic, but she sometimes has a tendency to try to persuade more radical voices to censor themselves. I find that a bit troubling.
The bizarre debate she moderated between Glenn Greenwald (a true radical in many ways, but not all) and Nathan Robinson (a faux-leftist who most people have never heard of) was an interesting example. It was almost as though they were putting Greenwald on trial, for the crime of hurting people's feelings with raw truth. To Gray's credit she did tend to side with Greenwald, but still, the push to temper Greenwald's style of uncomfortable truth telling was on display.
One gets the feeling that if Malcolm X (a real radical through and through) were a guest on her show, she would periodically interrupt, saying variations on, "I agree with the substance of your positions, but the way you present them is turning off potential allies. Don't you think you should tone it down a bit?"
@@NathanShirley i think cuz norm said that she was light skinned. thats why shes not black.
@@NathanShirley well said. While I appreciate BJGs sincerity I think she tone polices a lot and saw the same thing when she had Chris Hedges on. I don't see the point in baking a pie for persons who don't deserve a shred of our respect. The voiceless are the people who face constant attacks, bombardments, and torture that cannot defend themself. And, if Finkelstein chooses to carry that mantle through his unabashed anger for evil he's working on behalf of humanity.
That's not even the point they were talking about though. She challenged him and saying she had nothing to do with black people - which he completely avoids
@thevfxbyart Spot on
Finklestein isn't critiquing Jerret when he says she might as well be white, he's critiquing Obama for not hiring anyone who has actually lived something approximating the black experience in America.
You got it, thanks
Exactly. And even within the scope of a Jarret critique, Norm offers substantive criticism of her being a “gentrification machine.” The interviewer chose to hyper focus on Norm’s imperfect tone which was perfect in my opinion even though it didn’t ingratiate himself into the corporate woke wanna be Martha’s Vineyard crowd.
Who is this white man to speak on a black woman’s experience? He needs to stay in his place. Critique policy and leave it at that.
@@Nettamorphosis he supported his point by looking at her policies, specifically gentrification. Who is this white man? Someone who's read a lot more on the topic than me or you. Someone who's fought harder and paid a price higher than me or you ever will. That's who.
You're doing exactly what you accuse him of, focusing on someone's race. Except in your case it's actually true.
@@Nettamorphosis DOn't get lost in the sauce. Ditch the one drop rule and look at her history she's detrimental to black people an enemy of black people. She is the buffer class.
Brie is always too apologetic. Obama is a sociopath and did a lot of damage and is continting to do so. Saying you don't find him interesting, is not a slight, just an opinion.
For real! Like what does it take to have "personal animus" toward such a horrible "politician?"
Brie is a communication professional, and her point is valid. How is whether or not you find him interesting, germane to the subject of his sociopathy and damage done? It isn't, and inserting a personal opinion into the discourse like that, gives the audience the impression; "well, this guy just has an ax to grind."
Agreed. Bri is too soft. She needs to find her teeth and call a spade a spade.
Who cares if Norman has personal animus to Obama. As if a substantive critique can’t be personal in the way it’s written. Take it or leave it it’s his take on the matter, and maybe, just maybe, it’s ok to think Obama is a deeply uninteresting man from a perticular perspective. Also, maybe there is something to the light skin thing. Just cause it offends Brie doesn’t mean its irrelevant. For once, I disagree with Brie’s reasoning for pushback.
@@mavillejones5908 -- I think she was annoyed that Finkelstein was intimating that Jarret never hung around with black people.
Briahna is such an impressive person. I never saw anyone amicable to Finkelstein dare to criticize him and (hopefully) make him rethink something.
They had an amazing discussion. Passionate and at times combative, but that's why these discussions are so important and productive. I actually agree with both of them.
Finklesteins's not wrong though. He doesn;'t need to to tone it down about Obama.
I'm impressed by your guest. I have been following this brilliant intelectual and humanist for a long time. He is one of the kind. Congratulations Briana! By choosing your guests you demonstrate your wisdom and moral standards.
Well done Brie for finally getting Norman Finkelstein on your show.
Well done on speaking up and getting your very good point out to (another) man that loves the sound of his own voice!!!!
These days Norman tends to waffle a bit and talks a bit slowly. That's why you really need a moderator with Norman.
It's a pity she didn't talk about Palestinian issues from a legal point of view. That would have been much interesting.
Let’s not cancel Finklestein because he has some lingering hatred for the man who ensured Democrats were officially dead for good. If they ever actually were alive. We’re losing and always have been and the homo sapien is near finished. That being said this is the best extant podcast I’ve encountered. Thank you for your great work. Except for your occasional optimistic solar panel and windmills will save us all guests. Isn’t there always an ‘except’ though. Brianna makes great points in the middle. Great discourse.
Ensuring the party's failure was a team effort. You can't put it all on Obama.
@@vicshephard9231 of course not. I kind of hate that Brianna chose a little argumentative clip from am larger interview to post. Makes Finklestein look like an ogre Brianna s battling.
Of course not. I'd like to hear their whole discussion. Not justnBrianna battling an old firebrand on a sliver of a detail.
Great criticism.
Exactly.
I wish one day there will be a national recognition of Norman Finkelstein for all his intellectual work and service for Academia.
Only in a new America rebuilt from the ground up
Prof. Finkelstein never reduced Valerie Jarret to her skin tone. That was a really weird diversion that Briahna took the interview. His point was pretty clear that, like KAMALA HARRIS, her public record and her public work did not ever involve the uplift of the Black condition in this country - in both cases, just the opposite. Why is Briahna having a hard time hearing that from him?
Because she's too far up her own ass and likes to show everyone how smart she is. the fact that she would defend anything about Valerie Jarrett is a shame.
Briana is generally fantastic, but she sometimes has a tendency to try to persuade more radical voices to censor themselves. I find that a bit troubling.
The bizarre debate she moderated between Glenn Greenwald (a true radical in many ways, but not all) and Nathan Robinson (a faux-leftist who most people have never heard of) was an interesting example. It was almost as though they were putting Greenwald on trial, for the crime of hurting people's feelings with raw truth. To Gray's credit she did tend to side with Greenwald, but still, the push to temper Greenwald's style of uncomfortable truth telling was on display.
One gets the feeling that if Malcolm X (a real radical through and through) were a guest on her show, she would periodically interrupt, saying variations on, "I agree with the substance of your positions, but the way you present them is turning off potential allies. Don't you think you should tone it down a bit?" Following that advice would have the effect of neutering radicals, tempering their voices, and killing the passion that attracts supporters. Of course it could help them land a cushy job at some liberal magazine...
I was Team Nathan J. Robinson on that debate. Greenwald is a hack and an attention seeker.
@@freedomm Greenwald is one of the most important journalists working today. He broke the Snowden story, showing the country the extent the NSA has been spying on them (and continues to). And he helped Snowden avoid arrest.
Greenwald was almost single handily responsible for Lula's release from prison (former leftist president of Brazil). Because of this Lula's political prominence is skyrocketing and he is well on his way to ousting the far-right fascist Bolsonaro (one of the worst and most dangerous politicians in the world). Greenwald has done this, and continues to work on this front despite a very real risk of assassination.
Dismissing Greenwald because his tweets can stir up controversy is like gouging out your eyes because you don't like what you see. I don't always agree with him, but step back--look at the big picture.
Malcolm is the most important Muslim American ever
Norman Finkelstein the voice of reason and so deserving of a Nobel prize 🗽
SO WAY!!!!!
"The slogan of *Identity Politics* is : '...disunite the many, to enable the few; to create enough divisions, and fragmentations...and so forth.'"
*"Identity politics* is a complete and utter diversion from anything meaningful and substantive. For the young people I know who are poor: who live four (4 people) to an apartment in NY; who struggle each month to make the rent; who keep down three dead end jobs, with no job security, no vacation, no sick benefits--nothing...nothing! And then, juxtapose to that, is this idiotic identity politics--which, so far as the young people I know, has actually no meaning, nor substance whatsoever... it's a fashion show. It's not scholarship, [and] it's not politics. It's Tamika Mallory doing Cadillac commercials. It's Patrisse Cullors buying her four(4) homes, 'taking the money, and run'[mentality]. It's beyond the scam. It's truly destructive. "
- Norman Finkelstein
"Unite the many to defeat the few." -Mao Zedong a.k.a. Mao Tse Tung , Chairman of PRC, The People's Republic of China [1949 - 1976]
Bri is a great interviewer and has amazing guests like NF. Thank you.
Would be interested to know his take on Dershowitz now after the Epstein revelations
He discussed it in great detail on the TrueAnon podcast
@@jhutchtalkstoomuch4796 amazing, thank you for the reference!
The older we get, the more we have to say and that is good.
But maturity is also a skill and ability to listen well and absorb another person’s perspective and/or opinion that either supports or puts in question your assertions.
Great interview and subject matter!
Norm is a great speaker, has great ideas, writes well, but listens very poorly.
This is one of those sayings which come and bite you right in the rear end (for the right reasons). Professor Finkelstein is a bit of a hardheaded person, but you aren't really listening to his argument: the world is not becoming more inclusive, it is becoming a place for the dum-dum were dum-dum _is always right_ because dum-dum is not an individual but a _customer_ and every corner of dum-dum's life ends up being sort of _a marketplace..._
I mean, maybe *you* fail to see his incisiveness as he refuses to go dummity-dum-dum and strategize the way to talk down adult people, whatever their age is.
@@Tr4cK17 It is a substantive critique to point out that Obama’s persona is a myth. He’s not a genius, he is quite boring as a person, and he chose to surround hire an astonishingly overwhelming amount of white people even when it wasn’t at all required by who was available and highly qualified. All of that is important. And Briahnas criticism is idiotic: bad faith is not a popular general consumption show, and crotchety old Finkelstein would not be appealing to people that personally like Obama if it weren’t for this and he just focused on all his war crimes and corruption and almost entirely unmodified overseeing of brutally racist and classist policies. Brie thinks she’s on MSNBC in terms of her audience when her actual viewership is not big and is overwhelmingly downwardly mobile white millennials with online left politics that aren’t even representative of the average bernie sanders voter.
@@Unclejamsarmy you seem to know a lot Brie, what she thinks and the status of her podcast. Interesting.
Anyway, it matters not who watches the channel, her critique of NF's argument is spot on. Whenever you distract with personal hits, it gives anyone who might not have been inclined to listen in the first place an excuse to dismiss your entire argument.
Also, she didn't say who was on Obama's team wasn't important; she said talking about whether or not he finds Obama interesting or how white Valerie Jarrett looks does nothing to buttress his more substantive points. In fact she thinks those points only serve to diminish.
@@NosceTe Brie's critique was precisely his lack of incisiveness. He tends to wander off into territory that doesn't help his overall case.
Thank you for this interview of Norman Finkelstein; he is truly candid in his views. Very refreshing!!!
Finkelstein's critique of Obama's intellectual depth is relevant because the depth was sold as part of his identity. Obama did not sell himself as a black man. Obama tacitly presented himself as a charming, lighter-skinned, intelligent, "articulate" black man. All of the elements in this image reinforced each other and assuaged any fears harbored by moderate white people. He was The Cosby Show dream come to life. In his Senate run, we constantly heard Obama was the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review. So, his intellectual rigor is fair game. Why did Obama fool everyone? People adored his aura of being the coolest, smartest guy in the room, and somehow thought this translated to honesty.
Herman Cain and others got pretty far. I don't think you have to be a light-skinned black man to be a politician, just an articulate one.
But truly was it realistic to expect a tsunami of change from one presidential cycle? I think change in the US happens incrementally because society changes incrementally; I’m not sure ours is a culture where change can just happen overnight. There are social structures built up over time and there needs to be a persistent strategy over time to change them.
Obama "always talking" also applies to his time in the Illinois State Senate...He would stand-up in a members only caucus give his pitch and then leave.
Garrow's book suggests Obama is actually quite lazy.
Bill Edley, Wow!
@@darensweeney5925 I totally believe that. And as a therapist attuned to speech patterns, I always found it telling, from his very first presidential campaign, how his sentences, and even words, would consistently trail off towards the end. It made me suspect his belief in them, and his commitment to them, from the beginning.
Norman Finkelstein, one of the greatest.
Booklovers everywhere when norman explains how he reads had a little fluttering swoon. Great interview.
Also when e talks about George Floyd protests, you may cry. Brilliant and lovely. Thanks, Bri!
Lol what a title…that’s like asking…”Is the sun hot?”
Kennedys gun shy?
Al Capone eat pasta?
Came for Norman, stayed for Briahna. Only wish Id got to hear more from her. I hope Norman reflects on what Briahna raised that he didn't really acknowledge & kept interrupting. So much respect for much of Normans work. This interview gave insight to his blind spots.
Just coming to this interview after hearing Norman Finkelstein interviewed by Aaron Mate in Feb 2023. This man is a treasure. Rare to find an academic with such insight, instinct, courage and willingness to express heterodox views.
Norman is the genius. His sensitivity and scholarship goes unmatched.
Norman is a “genius” and Obama is stupid
His racial comments about Valerie Jarret entirely undermine any sensitivity he may possess.
@@jwhanger they don’t care, bro. These people hate “identity politics” so much, they barely think racism exists
The goal of identity politics is to reenforce the white corporate power structure by dividing the working class. It’s racist to support a movement whose end result marginalizes blacks, other minorities and the working poor.
@@bigman50505050505050 no. The goal of actual identity politics is to fight for solutions that are unique to respective groups. As a blk man, I am more likely to worry about being sh*t and k*lled than you are. These are just facts. Let’s not even go through the other issues that exists. Actual freedom fighting is merging “identity politics” with class consciousness. Just because some disingenuous people today misappropriate “identity politics,” while ignoring class struggle, doesn’t mean that the former is irrelevant or inherently bad. In fact, suggesting this lets me know that y’all tryna have us forget about our issues just so we can fix yours. And that’s not gonna happen.
Had to pause and agree with Norman here about Valerie Jarret. It's not a coincidence that colorism - the fact that she is a light skinned woman, makes her more palatable in the way it also does for Susan rice and Eric holder and...Barack Obama!
Great guest what a truth telling professor free Palestine 🇵🇸
Boycott, divestment, sanctions until Palestine is free
Finkelstein--the man--the legend! Great to see him getting some airtime!
Really impressed with Bri. I haven't heard her become this animated and pointed with an interviewee - even when she has heated discussions with acerbic and belligerent personalities. And that she was willing to stand firm against Norman Finkelstein of all people, says a lot about her character. I love Norm, but nobody is above criticism. In fact, it is important that we are willing to critique those we admire most, as Bri demonstrated here.
He reminds me a little of Gore Vidal in his last days. Vidal wasn't so "community" oriented politically, but his analysis of how the empire and elites would turn out was SPOT ON!
Jon. She got angry then he got defensive. They went BASIC. It was a terrible discussion/interview if I ever saw one. Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.
Love this guy-brutal honesty. But he is not a great listener 😑
He's he guest. She should be listening. I clicked to here his critique of Obama not hear here defend Valerie Jarrett's blackness
She never stops astounding me with the clarity and accuracy of her polemics.
I think we have a place for both voices in our political discourse: One the radical, almost deranged in "polite" society" and the other more calm which agrees with the radical voice on substance but tries to meet people where they are so as to not turn them off!
An astute comment for sure! Thanks
I think so. Someone to push the envelope, and another to make sure we're not mailing anthrax.
I think the former needs to be the sole approach so that the later, which is less effective, isn’t used to divide from the former. Solidarity in messaging from the left is what will drive attention to the core message rather than drive focus on groups and forget the message underlying the movement
In 2001 while taking my class at DePaul University, Professor Finkelstein used and asked the meaning of the word "juxtapose." Nobody knew it at the time. For sure it is still Finkelstein's favorite word. 😁I hated him in the beginning because he assigned lengthy readings. I still remember Julien Benda's "The Treason of Intellectuals," Benny Morris's "Righteous Victims," et cetera. It took me a while to grasp this man's intellectual prowess.
Bri impressed me here. Sometimes Norman doesn't understand that trees can obscure the view of the forest. Great conversation.
Pretty vacuous take there, pilgrim
As a native person, the way he spoke about Jarrett is my same critique of DOI Secretary Haaland. A woman who I truly think doesn’t think too highly of native men, maybe for personal reasons idk. For the fact she needed to pretty much hang out with wealthy white liberal men to get by shows how truly discontent she is with indigenous men as a whole. Plus her comfort with her Danish imperialist father truly shows she idolizes Eurocentrism and whiteness over her own Pueblo background, specifically of how she perceives masculinity through settler colonial militarism over self defense and indigenous power.
I’m black but I kinda agree with his valerie point.
Also black and totally agree with his point
I'd like to take either of these people along next time I'm buying a car.
😄😄
4:55-5:30 BJG distinguishes her "project" as a "political" person - of communicating with a range of views, and, ideally, reaching an "understanding" - from NF's statement that he does not care what others think of what he is saying.
Indeed, indifference to public and/or persuasion is a key issue - as crucial here as it was in BJG's recent interview with Talia Lavin - who failed to defend her approach, and, instead, took a 'this-brooks-no-argument,' and 'take-it-or-leave-it-I-don't-care' approach.
(When BJG questioned whether TG's approach could appeal to others and become an effective movement, TG - rather than seeking to persuade, rather than arguing how her ideas could be viable - simply declared that BJG was "entitled to [her] opinion" - and, later, denigrated BJG and her approach, telling her, sure, go "hold hands with a Nazi and kiss him on the cheek.")
Norm indicates that Obama is an incompetent bafoon. He said the same thing about Reagan. He is right. He doesn’t have his finger in the wind trying to win friends from Martha’s Vineyard which is a good thing.
The difference in approach is fueled by passion. I can see that in your presentation. There is something to be said for both reasonings. I think it's rather messy. But this is why we need both kinds of people. You can agree on a goal, then you both don't need to have the same vehicle to reach that destination. That is truly how you have broader appeal and agree to shutdown factionalism by sticking to the shared goals.
Thank you Bri for speaking with Norman Finkelstein.
Norman is talking about something deeper, and she's committing to identity politics fallacy.
He shows how the black community has been fooled by the master of clichés.
Norman is saying to the black folks: if you observe the people who pretend to rule and ask your votes, you'll know how deceitful they are.
Norman, thank you, bro.
Norm Finkelstein is one of the best. Thank you for having him as a guest.
He’s calling out what tons of black folks are afraid to say!
I’m thinking of flying over to Brooklyn from Melbourne Australia just to buy Norman a coffee. The guy is amazing. Loved him for years.
Briana you need to have this guy on more....
Norm I love you so much you great man love and respect from Algeria
That interview must have felt like trying to ride the bucking bronco. Great intellectually honest interview.
Valerie Jarrett being light skin does not derail his argument. Image plays a role. Lighter skin black people historically have always been preferable to to darker skin black people. How does she not know this???
She know's, she's going against the idea that you can only be "black" if you check certain boxes. This interview wasn't defending Valerie Jarrett, I was her defending her self and the critiques she probably get's from the people that BJG claims to represent.
@@demionriddick4809 I had time to reflect on this. I see now that Norman finkelstein was presenting black people as a monolith. Nontheless I agree with his overall position.
@@ynotlearn4190 No i agree with Norm's take on Valerie Jarrett he was right about her Valerie Jarrett is not a "black" person. She's black when it benefits her so people like BJG can come to her defense. He wasn't saying black people are a monolith. He was saying that she's using the identity of the oppressed, black people in this case to give her self cover for all the foul things she has done to black people. your original comment was spot on and I agreed with it.
@@demionriddick4809 now you are presenting black people as a monolith.
I was curious what Brie thought was interesting about Obama, though maybe she was referring to the Obama phenomenon. As a person, as a thinker, Obama seems entirely uninteresting, even intellectually vacant. The same is true of every president going back at least to Reagan--all intellectually vacuous and terminally incurious.
Maybe they share some commonality in their backgrounds. A lot of people in 🇺🇲 do.
Actually, people say Clinton is brilliant intellectually, but totally stunted in every other way.
@@darensweeney5925 It's true that both Clintons had that reputation--whether there's truth to it is another question. Certainly Bill thought he was brilliant, as exemplified by his attempt to outwit the GOP during the "Lewiinsky scandal"--who can forget his all-too-clever remark concerning the definition of "is"? I think both Clintons were smart in a lawyerly way, but I don't know if they had the broader knowledge of history, culture, etc. of an FDR, Kennedy, or TR, just to name some of the smarties from the 20th century.
He's the last of the bait and switchers I dropped out of the party I voted for him twice I'll probably be the last Democrat I'll ever vote for I give him . Credit showing me the light. The hope and change candidate did all he could to maintain status quo and to destroy hope and change. But Bernie missed his moment in history. He had to go back to being an independent in 16 after they played the shenanigans and he didn't. They don't play fair and he stays with the team that doesn't play fair.
The Glorious BJG and Norm are a great combo - he should be a regular ... Some non-extemporaneous shows, too - so as not to be mired.
Brie is being dishonest against Norman and hyper fixating on one minor aspect of his argument against Jarrett when it’s not central to his argument and nor is he saying it the way Brie makes it sound
Good to see that others see it too
Very well stated wachowski
It takes Job-ian patience to listen to NF sometimes, even when you agree with him, as I usually do. Commendable effort by BJG.
He was right Bri was wrong.
@@dynamobahamas he is much more interesting than her
Host got to understand that people listen to the guest when you have a guest.
Brianna interviews wonderfully. Professor Finkelstein, wise words, chosen carefully and adequate débit, (allowing transcript along with understanding) , unhurring giving the time to answer interviewer. Excellent!
I got ridiculously stoked when Norman dropped that f bomb at around a minute in. Have never heard Finkelstein say fuck in my life. Truly a hero for our time btw. Norman doesn't get anywhere near enough credit
Epic discussion I enjoyed it very much!
I do love the back and forth of this conversation , I never see Norm very much and I’m pretty sure this is a 1st for UA-cam Progs from what I’ve seen , This is why I love this channel Thanks Brie
Check him out on the This is revolution podcasts it was great.
@@Eastbayrob Thanks Robert
I think he's been on the Grey Zone re Israel-Palestine. Or maybe it was the Zero Hour.
@@stephaniecarrow4898 Very cool Thanks Steph
I find both of these people most impressive. They actually agree substantially on most issues. Both are worth listening to❤
Get him Norman
My family is almost all from Chicago and I lived there for three years. I saw through Obama right away. I am shocked people could not see through this Chicago huckster. He is a classic Chicago power politician.
What politician isn't an intellectual fraud ?
Politics and intellectual authenticity is an oxymoron !
Clicked because I was interested in Norman's take on Obuma...........................I wasn't disappointed.
Valerie Jared might as well be Yt… that’s real 🤷🏾♀️
I don’t think he was talking about her complexion. I took it as meaning that she doesn’t have politics that align with those that would benefit Black People.
"I don’t think he was talking about her complexion. I took it as meaning that she doesn’t have politics that align with those that would benefit Black People." 1) Except NF went on and on about actual complexion (being mistaken for white); 2) it's still as tone deaf as arbiter-of-blackness Biden saying if blacks were undecided on him v. Trump, "you ain't black."
@@pauljackson1709 Sigh. Bringing up the fact that the woman can pass for white when talking about the only BLACK person hired by Obama, believe it or not, it matters and is not offensive.
But if you rather be mad then be mad and stay mad. IDGAF about the fake outrage.
Also, Biden was literally only able to win due to the fact that a majority of Black People voted for him, so maybe use another example to support your weak argument.
@@awalebebinu "Bringing up the fact that the woman can pass for white when talking about the only BLACK person hired by Obama, believe it or not, it matters and is not offensive."
"Believe it or not, it matters and is not offensive"? Says who? Believe it or not, unless you can support your opinion, it's worthless.
"Biden was literally only able to win due to the fact that a majority of Black People voted for him, so maybe use another example to supp-"
Blacks across the political spectrum criticized Biden for it, and he had to apologize - said he shouldn't have said it. "Beliive it or not," that's evidence it was "offensive" and a political loser. Only inside your brain does the fact it didn't cost him the election mean it's ok for whites to tell Blacks what is and "ain't" Black.
"But if you rather be mad then be mad and stay mad. IDG-"
The ad hominems and FU's come at the end of posts - can't you get anything right?
@@pauljackson1709 I obviously mean that it isn’t offense to ME and my very Black Self. Have a good day.
@@pauljackson1709 While I agree that a person's complexion tells us nothing about who they are on the inside ~ and I'm sure NF would agree with that, too ~ I feel there was validity to his point that the ONLY black member of Obama's staff could pass as white. Especially when he'd just said that all his speech writers were white males, and even his staff of joke writers for the Press dinner were all white males. NF was making a point about Obama's disconnect from the black community ~ the base that elected him, and whom he thoroughly abandoned ~ while trading on his black identity to get elected in the first place. In other words, a total fraud.
Norman's moral and intellectual integrity, clarity and gravitas is unrivalled. A true scholar/philosopher of our time.
What a BS way to end it. And what kind of question is that, “who is this for”. Who knows how frustrated NF got with BJG after that but jeez, for once I’m a little annoyed with Brie. Just let the man sht on Obama, it’s cathartic, and true for many. And if some don’t feel obama is uninteresting now, maybe they will after NFs personal take and opinion. Not everyone has to agree that Obama is a deeply interesting person like BJG and be cautious not to offend in their writing. It’s his writing let him say what he wants. That’s how he feels about the dude.
Love Brie but she has her own blind spots for sure.
MavilleJones "Just let the man sht on Obama, it’s cathartic, and true for many."
It's "cathartic"? Then NF should relieve himself in primal scream therapy, not podcasts geared toward back-and-forth conversation/argument between different left pov's, and persuading viewers other than the "many" fanboys who show up for him.
@@pauljackson1709 idk what else you want. He explained himself. Brie took offense because of the racial factor. I happen to agree Obama was a con artist who favored white elitist culture and was a walking rhetorical cliche. The idea he’s an symbol of hope for blacks in America compared to his relationship broadly with “black” culture and the people he chose to staff his admin with, as well as the speech and joke writers he hired in order to endear himself to black and white people says a lot. When everyone is always saying how remarkable a prez he was it’s good to have someone to say, “why”, “I don’t think so”, “what about this”. We all know why brie was offended, she talks about it a lot, the whole you’re not really black thing, and it’s wrong to use that against her for a political dunk, but in some context, I understand why people would say that. The problem is she’d rather talk about how inappropriate she felt NFs remarks were than to acknowledge he may have a point about the so called “blackness” of Obama that is used to manipulate people with Id Pol.
NF answer about why he devoted a chapter to Obama was cut off. I am in NF generation; many still look up to Obama and avoid the NF information.
@@pthom326 agreed. My uncle is of NF generation and he is completely deluded about Obama. He’s a former conservative who thinks Obama is the greatest president of his lifetime, and he’s a white guy. He has not heard or engaged with these kind of points NF presents. Idk if they would change his mind, but it’s different than the vapid liberal praise or dumb criticism he hates from Fox News type pundits.
You might of thought he spoke a little too much on the show, but let me say, his last tangent really insipired me and gave me hope. He really did a great job piecing that together.
Where is this Norman article Brie referred to?
Edit: I really like Norman for the very reason that he's got nothing to gain so he speaks his mind. He's done his time, he's just worried about the future and the kinds of political activism currently in play.
I think you did a great job with this interveiw Briahna. I have noticed that even though Mr Finklestein often makes good points he also makes comments that are a bit unprofessional and I'm glad you pointed this out to him. It would make him more persuassive if he follows your advise in the future
Bri,
You are the best, most thoughtful interviewer/left intellectual I know these days. Kudos for all you do!
Consider running for elected office please!
I don’t think Norman has ever heard of Thomas Sowell who would run circles around Cornel West. Sowell is the greatest black intellectual of our time.
I love Norman honesty but Brianna seems very uncomfortable and bothered.
I agree with you about Brie. My guess is the discomfort came from anticipating the slings and arrows coming from sections of the black community if she had not pushed back on a white man opining on a black person's blackness. Btw, I fully agree with Norm regarding Obama and Jarret.
"seems very uncomfortable and bothered." Welcome to another episode of 'The Face-Reading Hour' - the show where the content of an intelligent black woman's words are ignored, and viewers, instead, devote their attention to her emotional pulse.
@@pauljackson1709 thanks for watching, I'm sure you will stick around for the next episode!
Thank you for your valuable mission to inform us.
Briahna could you please run for Congress. NY district 14 needs new leadership.
don't count on it - then she'd have to actually do something
Not sure if BJG reads these, but as a fan of Norman and first time listener to the podcast, I'm impressed with the pushback. I love Norman's work but sometimes he gets carried away the the unsubstantive rhetoric that has nothing to the do with the point he's making (which I almost always agree).
He's somewhat stubborn too, hopefully he'll ponder some of what was said afterwards. It was good of him to reach out for feedback in the first place.
Keep up the great work Briahna!
I agree with Norman but Brie actually made a very strong case. Stay on message and don't stoop to personal attacks.
I completely agree with her. His digression into identity/personality completely put me off.
@@myrmaad ::
I think Norm was caught up in the ...
_The Banality of Evil._
Well said Mr. Finkelstein, I admire your honesty 😊