Series 4. Episode 1: The *NEW* Edelrid Pinch! Maple Leaf Ropes Gear Chat w/ Phil from Edelrid
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Here we're reviewing the all new Edelrid Pinch. This belay device for rock climbing is also certified as a lanyard positioner for tree work and work safety applications. Tune in with the head of product development and see the benefits and features that this device can offer.
We just added a couple of videos to our Instagram page answering some of the questions everyone has brought up below, check it out!
This UA-cam video showed us its features but we didn't get to see it in action. Would've took 30seconds to show it in actual use.
He was about to say "it works like a grigri" :)
Wheree?
He's trying to NOT say GriGri so bad!! 😂😂
Great stuff thanks for sharing!! I'd love to get one to prepare a review ASAP ;-)
I'd like to hear your comparison to grigri for LRS application 😊
Man edelrid keeps innovation at the top of their list! Very cool. Can’t wait to try one.
Let's hope they bump quality control up the list, too...
Does the EN 12841 mean you can go hands free without a tie off/ stopper knot (like a Petzl Id) when repelling? In this case I would see an advantage there over a Grigri.
Echoing a similar comment about the panic feature override, I agree that the method of override defeats the purpose of including a panic feature. At least when it comes to the Grigri+, the panic feature is to combat people's tendencies of pulling their hands into their bodies when panicking (and thus pulling the lever to open the cam more). While potentially annoying in how often the panic feature engages, the distinct act of releasing the lever to restore function to to serves as a physical reset and reminder to not crank the lever too far. With the Pinch, since the panic feature override essentially equates to a "panic and crank on the lever more" motion, it seems like there would be a higher chance for unintentional overriding. In the hands of an inexperienced belayer, it seems the climber would ultimately experience a rapid descent, a jolting stop as the panic feature activates, and then a continued rapid descent before ultimately hitting the ground.
I can also see a potential false sense of security and inadvertent complacency if a belayer is handed a Pinch and expects the panic feature to function, only to learn that it has been disabled by the screw when it's too late. A more clear visual indicator may be necessary to make it clear when the panic feature is functional or disabled.
Don't agree. If you have ever tried this with a Grigri+ and when you try this with this device: To continue lowering when in panic mode, the direction of using the lever changes significantly. So assuming that a hand or arm contracts in a panic situation it will certainly not continue the release. The crucial area that will cause someone to drop off when operating the lever on these devices is clearly protected by the anti-panic area.
On a more speculative note: most certainly someone in such a motion will certainly loose the lever at one point once it snaps into anti-panic.
Iirc the grigri+ also has the override of the anti panic, which defeats the purpose there as well. Weird design choice in both devices...
I wonder if there's a risk to touch the unlock button accidentally. Having different lever color options would be nice
Copying from an earlier comment: The plates of the device share load at the back and surface area at the attachment. So under tension, they are being pulled on at the same time. I would argue that the risk is similar to rolling open a carabiner, technically possible but extremely unlikely unless you are actually trying to make it happen. You'd likely also have to push the button in with something, not just brushing it against something. It needs to get pushed in pretty far to open. We're working on a follow up video with Edelrid right now to address this question and will be posting it to our Instagram ASAP.
Looks sketchy to push that button and open it. It is way harder to unlock a screw gate carabiner. I can't imagine them recommending this for a single point of failure with a button that opens it...
@@mapleleafropes Could you fasten it to your harness like he shows and also clip a carabiner through the eye to prevent it from opening?
Check out our most recent posts on our Instagram answering this question directly. Basically you can't open the device under load due to the way the side plates are designed. You still can back it up with a carabiner if that makes you more comfortable!
@mapleleafropes good that it can't be opened under load. What about the case where is removed by accident before the person you are belaying falls before you can re attach it. Seems like a solution looking for a problem to solve while creating more risk with this no carabiner feature. Backing up with a carabiner basically makes it a grigri anyway it seems.
edelrid‘s take on a grigri plus essentially.
that work certification seems interesting to me.
also looks a bit lighter than the clunky grigris.
But it seems to lack the lip used on the Grigris to give slack via „Gaswerkmethode“ - the way he shows giving slack in the video has been deemed unsafe for quite a long time now (tho too many people still do it)
It's the Gaswerkmethode in the manual?
yeah I assume thats (one of) the method(s) Petzl shows in the manual.
To do it you’d pinch a lip on the Grigri and the Cam.
I was wondering what you’d Pinch on with the Pinch. Because the way the guy in the video shows it (gripping around the whole device instead of only lip and cam) is deemed seriousely unsafe for the grigri, thus it must be unsafe with the edelrid-device tool
the scene i refer to is 2:30 where he death-grips the device while showing/implying how he‘d give slack
Edelrids idea with this device is, that you can push down on the cam, because it's that close to your tie in loop.
The openning seems very easy, maybe too much easy that it can be openned during its use.
What if you have it directly clipped to your belay loop and you accidently hit the open button? Oops.
It would be the same even as if you had it in carabiner 👍💪🫡
@@MLURD I dunno, it seems worse than a carabiner on that front for a few reasons. The button is right where your fingers are. The clasp in the back takes a lot less motion to come unhooked than a locking gate. It doesn't have the advantage a carabiner has of still being two opposed hooks, like if a carabiner comes unlocked you still need to unload it enough to get whatever is on it over the nose. Is this similar somehow?
This will be replacing my A.R.T postioner good job 👍
Belaying devices are getting more different to each other. I don't like that they should look more the same and be more simple in design. I am concerned about the knob on the side when the device is used without an additional biner. But on the other hand i do like the possibility of having eliminated the danger of crossloading. At the end I still love the spirit of this Edelrid to always try to improve. Go on with this idea!
Okay, so I was super hesitant at first but now I'm thinking this thing is pretty awesome. I don't think I'd buy it since I have a grigri but if I was in the market I'd probably try this guy out. I do want to see him try to open the device while it's got a loaded rope in it. I don't know if it's got a safety feature for that but that's the one thing I do keep thinking about. Also weight compared to a grigri2 & the +
Given how easily and often my ohm decides to unlock itself, this is terrifying!
If you clip it directly to the harness the only thing keeping it closed and stopping the rope being spat out is the button? 🤔At least with a carabiner in there it stops it accidentally opening. 🤨
The plates of the device share load at the back and surface area at the attachment. So under tension, they are being pulled on at the same time. I would argue that the risk is similar to rolling open a carabiner, technically possible but extremely unlikely unless you are actually trying to make it happen. You'd likely also have to push the button in with something, not just brushing it against something. It needs to get pushed in pretty far to open. We're working on a follow up video with Edelrid right now to address this question and will be posting it to our Instagram ASAP.
@@mapleleafropesok so it can't open under load, but at 1:38 he opened it super fast with one push.
And we all know... anything that can happen, will happen!
And if this comes like this on the market, someone will fall to the ground because a stick or something like that unclipped him
@@FragCool yes when it is unloaded (as it was at that time stamp) you definitely can open it up quite easily. Standby, I will try to make a quick video on the ground of us trying to open it while loaded. I will follow up!
@@mapleleafropes when the climber climbs, the system is not "loaded" right ? As there is no weight on the rope
@@Furansowakun Yes, I see where you're headed with that question. We should have a demo unit back in our hands soon and will be able to test/answer everyone's questions/concerns. Hopefully next month but we'll see how everything goes!
Nice video! Do you also film something about the new Ohm?
Unfortunately this was filmed at a Tree care related show so they didn't have it with them. As soon as we can get our hands on that we'll do our best to get a video put together!
Interesting and want to use it. Can it be used for the lead belay? if yes, then the teeth given in the front for more friction are harmful to the rope due to dynamic belay shock? Please make a dynamic belay demo with this device.
I find the overriding panic function to be odd. Either have an annoying panic function or don't, pulling further deactivating the function and opening the cam even more seems to defeat the purpose of it.
Ah but after the override panic area there is another panic area and then another panic area over ride and so on to infinity. 😂
Is this only for commercial applications, or also for recreational sports climbing? The part that would clip into the belay loop of the harness seems a little "sharp", no? Cheers!
Its for both! Definitely designed with belay loops in mind. When I had my hands on it last week it didn't seem like it would cause any damage to soft textile.
Sweet 😊
I think having it so close to you will just make your shirt more likely to get caught up in the device
Because everyone has a belay loop like that on their harnesses
Arborist harness. The most comfortable for jugging up a rope
So the Pinch can just open up while belaying and disconnect from your harness!?
Absolutely no... it would not have certification. We need to wait and trying it as soon it hits the market
I bet the hazard of being cross loaded will never be as great as the hazard of bumping the button and having the device fly off your harness entirely
“ We all have enough Karabiners , so that is not an issue, then proceeds to rob a Karabiner from another climbing system !!!
Do we know when approx it'll come out?
April 2024!
I miss how you are supposed to give out rope for lead belay. He only says it's better to feed it from the front. but I read, that you - like with the GriGri - have to pinch down the cam with the thumb if you need rope quick. (and the rest of the time feed like a tube. as is recommended with the GriGri as well - but very few people do that sadly).
As @hardiseasy had shown in his videos, it is very easy to hold the cam down on a GriGri.
ua-cam.com/video/We-nxljgnw4/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/jKe72j_mBlU/v-deo.html
So it would be really important to know, what the possible mistakes - like pressing down the cam in a situation of fear - can be
Actually Edelrid recommend to just use it like a Tube to give rope. The thumb method is on the GriGri the most reason for acindents.
@@mikafull that's how you should use the GriGri too but it doesn't work if you need to give rope fast. That's going to be the same thing with the Pinch I guess because that's how it's meant to work
@@thusneldamuller37 edelrid is saying that with the pinch it works much better and the thumb method is not so nice to use. We will see next year, a frind of mine will bye it.
Does it work well with rope solo?
Panic function is the biggest pain in the ass. Petzel listend and dropped it pretty fast for the newer gri gri 2
You talking about the GriGri plus and the GriGri3. Both of them a still available.
@@mikafull oh I know but most will agree the plus is ass. So the redesigned the 2 making it a bit more ergonomic. And yes the 3 is on its way ( the rotational cam one )
@@TheCaveManDan. the plus is also not my da favorite, but it has some fans out there.
You talking about the neox, but from the classic grigri are already three versions available. The oldest one is much bigger, but anyway, the pinch looks nice and and hope it will work like they promise.
I have 3 of the original gri gri they are becoming very rare
Looks cool but honestly does it offer anything different or better than a grigri? Grigri is so well known and has stood the test of time and I’m not sure if the direct to belay loop feature is worth it? But we’ll see. Maybe it handles better. It looks nice and compact.
Since Petzl ist going to release the Neox, which is basically a grigri but with a roll instead of the cam, I dont think Edelrid stands a chance. If anything will replace the grigri, it will be the Neox.
He sais it is recomended to feed the rope from the front. I always feed the grigri from the side. Am i doing it wrong?
On the GriGri you are definitely doing the right thing! This device was designed to accommodate feeding it from the front. When he says "recommended" he means when using the Pinch they recommend feeding it that direction. Hope that makes more sense.
No.
I used to try feeding my GirGri from the front while lowering, when I just got it, to reduce the rotation introduced in the rope. Nowadays I don't bother anymore. You can try if it makes a difference, I think it barely does.
I feed my grigri from the front to reduce wear on the aluminum side plate. On my grigri+ I feed however feels natural, sometimes front or side, since it has steel. I don't really notice a difference for rope twisting.
What is going on with those rope pieces attached to your harness? KISS applies to climbing. I sometimes use a gri-gri, but simple is better. Your reasons for using this thing don’t make much sense. Nothing replaces staying alert and knowing what you are doing.
Thry made a grigri
Hang on, hang on ...... yes you CAN directly clip it in to your harness via that little "button" of the side of it where it opens and you can see where NOTHING goes thru the open gates you can see on both sides the new device .............
OR You can use a standard carabiner where you can CLEARLY see it passing thru both sides of the two gates on the open device ..... so with the carabiner in the system it literally LOCKS the device shut, as opposed to that little button he shows at 30 seconds in to the video, that button seems to open pretty damm easy !!
Edelrid or Phil - are you guys on glue?
The idea of the button sketches me out too, but it's kind of in line with their slider locker carabiners, which I have several of but no longer trust for things like belaying or single-point attachments with no redundancy (like personal tethers). Just too easy to simulate opening scenarios and having that little thought in my head all the time that I have to be careful to not bump it while belaying is incredibly distracting. I imagine I'd have a similar feeling using the pinch with no carabiner.
Were you trying to avoid saying the word "GriGri"? 😅
Thats scary, a device for belaying used byany level of climbers really shouldn't be so multiheaded. This inconspicuous screw is changing a function of device that is so profound, i think thats dangerous.
A lever of different form and colour you could use if the panicfunction is disabled would do good, so anyone of any level of experience would knew that he is holding something different in his hands that he might expect.
Ich bin sehr enttäuscht dass sie den selben Fehler mit der „overridable“ panic function wie petzl begehen. Ein Hebel, der ablässt, wenn ich ihn in wirklicher Panik durchziehe, ist ein absolutes Risiko!
Dem kann ich mich nur anschließen, insbesondere mit der Möglichkeit über das Eindrehen der Schraube das Auslösen der Panikfunktion komplett zu unterbinden, finde ich das "Feature" die Panikfunktion auch noch überspringen zu können einfach unnötig.
now I'm waiting for the two-rope version, just like ct alpine up, f.e.