There are also skirmish versions of both 40K and Age of Sigmar that can offer a lot of fulfillment at a lower price, and help you to step slowly into full sized 40K/AoS.
@@narrativecrusades707 I think that all comes down to someone’s overall budget. If they want to get into the GW ecosystem but can’t afford a full 40K army, then something like Kill Team, Combat Patrol, or Boarding Actions might be the only option for them financially. The only drawback of using Kill Team to delve into 40K is that you’ll need a separate set of books, but Combat Patrol and Boarding actions use the same core rules that are free to access from Games Workshop. I think you said it best though with your point of “get the models that you think are cool” because the fastest way to just toss the whole lot in the closet is to lose interest working on something that you don’t want to.
Thanks for your opinion in this matter. Sometimes I lose control and buy a LOT of miniatures. Then there is a year without anything new, just basing, painting or kitbashing 🎉
I have Family who work in Plastics, and (for example) the Cost to -GW- (sorry, *_Warhammer Inc._* ) to produce this kit, including Materials, Labor, Packaging (which actually *_Costs *More_* than The Model Kit) Storage (warehouse) & S&H is....... $2.75 USD (which given the MSRP, is a 10,000% Profit for -GW- *_Warhamper Inc._* )
Hey, thanks for your comment! No one denies that the company makes massive profit. It’s why they are doing so well and why they exist. The commentary is about how that expense compares to entertainment gained per hour per pound spent at which point it’s amazingly good value. If we analyse loads of companies and what it costs them to make products there would be plenty of shocks. I feel that’s a commentary for a later video as it would be interesting to see the profit margins.
I always think of this while going out to a restaurant. “So I could get sushi for dinner for $40USD OR I could go make some chicken potatoes and peas at home for like $5USD. Do that five times and hey, suddenly I can afford that Triumph of Saint Katherine.
Food can be mad expensive, had one the other night that was about 1/3 the cost of what I spend on food for 2 weeks! But at least it’s something you need in some capacity. It’s a sensible way of looking at finances in general but glad to see some positivity my man! Go get you that dead lady!!!
It does save a bunch of money but it’s not for everyone. I’m a fan of printing, bits bases and even the odd proxy I much prefer working with plastic when possible. You go from spending pounds to pennies with a printer!
@@narrativecrusades707 It does have it's pros and cons. You need a spare room or a space with good ventilation. The plastic after being cured does feel less durable than a gw mini. However I have seen some stl files that put GWs work to shame. My nephew recently started a dark aeldar army. He bought a $50 bundle of stls, a $35 bottle of resin and asked me to print for him. In 6 days I made him about 835 points and $420 worth of models had he bought them from GW. That's if he could find them. Some of those models I made him are discontinued(grotesques).
The realization that got me into the hobby was: many guys my age have bought a sports car. I could have a gaming pc and two-three warhammer armies and still not equal the PURCHASE price of a single sports car, regardless of make or model if new. Much less cost if factoring in insurance and maintenance. I am not a car guy so buying an efficient car leaves more than enough left over for all my other hobbies combined. Its only a question of how one wants to spend their hobby money, what they enjoy and consider worth it.
That’s all it comes down to, are you happy with your purchases and do they provide you entertainment and happiness. I can’t imagine the entry level for sports cars is exactly, forgiving 😂. We shall keep the channel about warhammer and stave off our urge to go and buy Ferraris (we can’t anyway 🤪). Love seeing positive points like this mate!
As an Australian, im going to hard disagree. The mark up here is astronomical. Heavy intercessors are a dollar a point. Yes, thats right. For five squads, making 525 points (roughly a comabt patrol of old), i have to spend $525, then paints and tools. GW could easily sell their models for less and make the hobby easier to get into, this making more bank by having MORE customers and more people playing and getting friends into it, but they refuse. They know anyone who touches the IP gets destroyed, they know they have a monoploy.
You defo are part of the aforementioned financially victimised. The mark up is insane. After looking at the prices that are charged in Australia I think I’d be looking at a different hobby unless I was a golden demon / single mini painter competition painter. Which is a shame to see so many priced out if it. I’m not sure about the anyone who touches the IP gets destroyed that’s new to me. Is Australia mental for 3d printing ?
I used to do the calculation of booze to models as a means of justifying purchases and time spent on painting/playing. It even has had a hand in me going sober!
It’s a subjective point my man, we enjoy 40k, 30k and some of the smaller games a ton. Legion and bolt action are also great games for their own merits. What games do you suggest, always happy to hear about more good systems!
The point near the start was excellent 👌 If you can afford it and see the value... Go ahead. I always attribute price per hour of enjoyment and your going to the cinema price per hour is one I've personally used on; video games, TV subscriptions, days out, and ultimately miniature collecting. Here here!
You missed one massively important point. GW models and games are FOUR OR FIVE TIMES MORE EXPENSIEVE than every other game on the market. I can pick up a box of thirty 28mm WW2 figures for around $35 dollars. The rules for games from other companies are also far better written and more fun to play. In addition, historical games or generic fantasy and sci fi games don't give a damn if you use third party or 3D prints to play the game. My WW2 vehicles all cost me around $15 to $20 to have printed and shipped to my door. Infantry around $2 a piece. It's mind blowing that people still support GW and continue to play their crappy games.
I enjoy their game a lot and have for many years. I consider myself a painter more than a gamer and a lot of the other war games out there don’t hold up to the same level of detail. A few good ones for sure with a comparable price. The rules is a whole other debate. At the end of the day if you don’t enjoy it mate and you enjoy other systems then there’s no harm in that. Support those companies that bring you entertainment and value, my points are still the same except the value is even better for yourself due to the lower price point. Enjoy something for its own merits opposed to it being in opposition to GW!
compared to a golf membership it is cheaper yes. The reason GW is considered Expensive is when you start to compare with other Wargames. Compared to other tabletop wargames it is less of an money and time expenditure to get an army going. Plus a lot of competitors have free rules. that you can donwload or use an app for to make their armylists. My main games being Infinity and A song of Ice and fire the miniatures game. With the free acces to the rules, cheaper armies and less "sizeable" in compared to a standard Warhammer army, I much prefer them over GW.
I gotta say it's refreshing seeing someone that says it like it is. Yeah it's is pricey In a short space of time but you can get so much out of them and build up slowly. When people say Warhammer is expensive, whet they really mean is my 2000 point super list is expensive.
Objectively as you say, it’s expensive for what it is. The hours of enjoyment, entertainment and research all add i up p rapidly. What would your number 1 bit of advice for a new player be?
@@narrativecrusades707 start slow, definitely kill team. One of the best things gw ever made. Also there are alternative games they make such as necromunda which is really worth it in my opinion.
I think of wargaming like a gym membership. If you get a $60 a month gym membership and then actually go to the gym three days a week almost every week, you are absolutely getting your money's worth. If you sign up hoping that the cost will motivate you to exercise, and when that strategy inevitably fails and you're never using the membership, well then yeah, it's an expensive waste. Same thing with Warhammer. If you buy models that you then build, paint, and/or play with, you're absolutely getting your money's worth. But if you're just adding to a huge pile of shame and never actually playing any games or painting any minis, it's an expensive waste. HOWEVER, you can always sell off your pile of shame second hand and get most of your money back, unlike the black hole of the past gym months!
Ye olde gym membership. Which reminds me I need to get down to my own one more than once a week 😂 I mean an ideal world you do lose maybe 30-40% of the rrp you paid. But prices always going to go up! You are quite correct and I agree with your points here
The second I got old enough to realize i didnt care about the new video game everyones playing and will not play more than 2 hours of baldurs gate or whatever and go back to runescape, I had money for warhammer. The buy in to the hobby is definitely prohibitively high and gw needs to do better on starter boxes (wtf are the new combat patrols) but eventually you kinda understand why they are that price when its 5 years later and your still using the same 60 ork boyz every weekend.
Have got to agree on combat patrols the entry is getting harder for kids and teenagers / worse value. I’m the same with games I stopped buying them as I’d play such a little amount and get bored
It's fine to play competitive, but don't get caught up in the competitive mind set and buy product based solely on tournament winning lists...treat yourself to some narative games or a crusade campaign and fall in love with your army and favorite units all over again.
I really don't see warhammer as an expensive hobby at all, for the mere fact that even if you have the sloppiest and messiest 5 minute paint job on your models, they still fetch 50-70% of rrp on ebay, and even more if they're unpainted altogether. And there's so many cheaper price points to jump in at, combat patrol for £70, kill team for £35. you can happily play kill team for a couple of years whilst slowly building up a 40k army, that cost spread over such a long time feels quite inconsequential, especially as you say for the amount of hours you spend painting them if so inclined. And then there's comparing the cost of the minis to other tabletop games like shatterpoint, infinity or malifaux, or the likes of gundam or good quality scale models (not you airfix, you're bad) GW stuff is not only by FAR the best produced with the nicest plastic, it's also amongst the cheapest. And as someone that's been involved with plastic production, the kind of molds and production they need, the prices are really rather fantastic.
Would love to hear more about some of the plastic production it’s always interesting to get some insight and lean the ins and outs. Your comment did make me laugh I do have to agree on quality. I think GW lead the way but also set the pricing bar other model companies know people will pay high prices and follow suit. Marvel crisis is incredibly expensive per figure but the cost is off set by needing so few to play I imagine the same with shatter point. Had not even thought about kill team and I do warcry myself 😂 it’s defo a gateway game but my word the support for it is incredible
The thing (I think) that happens with most hobby buyers is that they buy a lot in a very short time, like they get excited about a new miniature coming out or they just can't wait to save enough. But hey, that is only my opnion mam.
Fomo defo has an impact / excitement I’ve been guilty of both including your example. I think just being more aware and coming up with a hobby strategy will help most out
This video is pure facts. It seems like the more of the mistakes you listed that a person makes, the more negative they are about the hobby in general. The amount of meta chasers who only build and prime their mini's that complain about GW being the most evil, money-hungry company on the face of the earth is astounding. I used to be in a group online that began encouraging everyone to 3d print, and were secretly sharing illegal stl's of exact 40k models. The irony was they preached about it being right because "GW was so greedy". Absolute hypocrisy
The thing I find the weirdest is those groups will advocate paying for stls yet those very stls rip off the IP. I’m an advocate of proxies and bits but full on replicas is where I’m not a fan! You are quite right when people enjoy the hobby and spend time doing it instead of what’s best rules wise they have a much better time. Yes it’s expensive yes it’s a big profit maker. If it went bankrupt so would the hobby! Thanks for your comment mate, there’s been a few I’ve had to work through which haven’t been as positive 😂😂😂
INB4 the trolls and idiots decrying "Corporate apologist! GW IS TOO EXPENSIVE" - You are free NOT to enjoy this hobby, kindly either piss off and spend your money on something else - or just pirate/proxy/print and or recast your way into the hobby. I genuinely don't mind, so long as you STFU about the price. For all those saying "GW Deserve to go bankrupt" you would quickly be crying over the lack of a hobby to invest in, and then kack your pants at how inflated the 2nd hand market would then become.
I agree with you so much, if the company does go so does the hobby. There are so many warhammer UA-camrs who make a living off the company but seem to love the idea of the company going broke. If it happened they’d be back to the workforce 😂
Obviously painting is a big part of the hobby, but if it wasn’t for the game most people wouldn’t be buying the models. And when you compare 40k to any other board game, it is really expensive
Board games yes, wargames, still WH is the most expensive but not by far. Star Wars legion still costs a bomb. Board games I think are the best value for money out there on the market
Great video, and a lot of good points made guys. I think too many people get roped into the warp when looking at the hobby and especially GW, yes the hobby can get expensive god knows I've pumped some cash into it over 30yrs. But when I look at the hours of enjoyment it's brought me and the friends I've made, it honestly adds up to nothing compared to other hobbies, trust me I've owned fast and furious cars many years ago that's a money pit.
Boy racer in the house!!! You better have some videos of you doing some skids in a supermarket car park!!! I hadn’t even considered the people I’ve met. And friends I’ve made. That’s pretty epic way of looking at it!
@narrativecrusades707 Haha long gone are the days of me cruising round Tokyo drift style 😂. I reckon this hobby is no different to any other hobby, you can get as much out of it as you put in, all a matter of perspective.
Warhammer is certainly the branch of wargaming I’ve setup camp and made a hobby of. It’s the same point either way both aren’t expensive provided you’re putting time in.
I like to 3d print to its an incredibly useful tool! 3d printing hasn’t hurt GW who have only continued to see record profits. It is expensive but they exist to make a profit, and that’s fine. If you want to print, print away it’s a valid form of enjoying the hobby! If the company ever went under we wouldn’t have a globally unifying hobby anymore.
Nope. No no no. That’s a bs way to look at it. You can do that, but there is no point. It gives you results that do not point out the facts, only your feelings about your spending. What you should look at is the percentage of profit a box of models yields. The product is worth 50c up to maybe 1,5£ per box of models, plus 1£ for the box. It costs a abything from 20£ to buy a kit. So at minimum they will get 700% profit. That is what you look at. Not your expenses per hour but how much more you give them for the product than they spent to make it. Also them selling out does not mean that it’s not too expensive. It means that they made too few units of the product to cover the demand.
One thing you perhaps aren’t considering is that they have to pay concept artists to design artwork and theory for a model, then they have to go through a multi stage design process where world class sculptors will design and re design a model. Then it’s got to be painted by multiple teams, photographed, edited, graphic design, marketed, moulds made, printed, packed and transported. I will never deny they make a massive mark up. I will never deny they could charge less. Their process is world class. If you saw the margins super markets made or your energy companies or the banks on your house payments all things that you need Then I’d understand some complaints. Warhammer is a luxury we don’t need, it a hobby that for what I spend It keeps me engaged! Even now discussing with yourself is part of that! I don’t profess to know economics, what I do know is the sales they make far out paces their ability to produce the stuff due to all the outve stock pieces. Thanks for your comment whilst I don’t agree with some of your view points it’s nice to have some points of opposition to consider!
@@narrativecrusades707 But if that were true, competitors would be following the same logic buy they don't: mantic games, bolt action, historicals, all of these are produced far cheaper. Heck, Wargames Atlantic does some killer guard models for half the price. There are plenty of miniature manufacturers who don't charge as much, and the honest anser why GW does is because plastic manufacturing (once you have the facilities) is cheap and they can mark up the price (they're a public company so they need to justify dividends, i.e. growth, to their shareholders each month. That's why it's dissproportionately more expensive).
@@narrativecrusades707 This is all true but the company makes a clean 35% profit margin which is astronomically good, its a standard alone business in this regard. Majority of businesses operate on something like 5% percent profit margin . The catering industry in the UK averages around 2% profit, Apple Inc is on 10% for another frame of reference, Hell even some car companies don't even make a profit they just rely on floating on the stock market E.g. Tesla. My take is GW has garnered an almost cult like following where fans are willing to pay insane amounts of money for new models and GW or more importantly there shareholders abuse this fact. ( I know I'm one of them, I'm just realistic about what I am). This is my main point. Another perspective which others have mentioned is the cost of raw products to final product. Eldrad cost me £22 for 11grams of polystyrene. 1 metric ton of polystyrene is just over £1000 that's like a 90,000% mark up, Insane. Yes production and branding does cost alot but dont forgot the profit margin they make. In the grand scheme of things its not that much for a hobby compared to others. But those other companies in other hobbies don't make profit margins like GW. assets.ctfassets.net/ost7hseic9hc/3Bxadr0YTIX0hGl1H7DPGe/8e1361726a8e0c8dfef9bcdae8299480/2022-23_accounts_-_final.pdf Here's GWs financial report which all limited companies have to legally make availably. Its an 80 page document detailing all there operating costs and how the go about there business.
If you're careful, this hobby really doesn't have to be pricey. I was intimidated at first, but you can be very shrewd about your purchases.
What would you recommend to someone brand new and wanting to make a start?
Great advice Dustin…
There are also skirmish versions of both 40K and Age of Sigmar that can offer a lot of fulfillment at a lower price, and help you to step slowly into full sized 40K/AoS.
Fantastic point I had not even thought about, do you think this is better as a starting point for new players?
@@narrativecrusades707 I think that all comes down to someone’s overall budget. If they want to get into the GW ecosystem but can’t afford a full 40K army, then something like Kill Team, Combat Patrol, or Boarding Actions might be the only option for them financially. The only drawback of using Kill Team to delve into 40K is that you’ll need a separate set of books, but Combat Patrol and Boarding actions use the same core rules that are free to access from Games Workshop. I think you said it best though with your point of “get the models that you think are cool” because the fastest way to just toss the whole lot in the closet is to lose interest working on something that you don’t want to.
A lot of this makes sense. I always feel like I need to rush.
There’s no need! People will happily still play games against your WIP force take your time and make sure you finish it the way you want it!
Thanks for your opinion in this matter. Sometimes I lose control and buy a LOT of miniatures. Then there is a year without anything new, just basing, painting or kitbashing 🎉
It’s a good way to be. Working through a back log for a year is fine thing!
Do you think Fomo gets to you sometimes as a hobbyist ?
@@narrativecrusades707 feels like i am always an easy victim 🤣 as long as it is Chaos Space Marines or Xenos related 😜
I have Family who work in Plastics, and (for example) the Cost to -GW- (sorry, *_Warhammer Inc._* ) to produce this kit, including Materials, Labor, Packaging (which actually *_Costs *More_* than The Model Kit) Storage (warehouse) & S&H is.......
$2.75 USD (which given the MSRP, is a 10,000% Profit for -GW- *_Warhamper Inc._* )
Hey, thanks for your comment! No one denies that the company makes massive profit. It’s why they are doing so well and why they exist. The commentary is about how that expense compares to entertainment gained per hour per pound spent at which point it’s amazingly good value.
If we analyse loads of companies and what it costs them to make products there would be plenty of shocks. I feel that’s a commentary for a later video as it would be interesting to see the profit margins.
Ah,. See how your comment didn't get a little heart? Too much like logic.
I always think of this while going out to a restaurant.
“So I could get sushi for dinner for $40USD OR I could go make some chicken potatoes and peas at home for like $5USD.
Do that five times and hey, suddenly I can afford that Triumph of Saint Katherine.
Food can be mad expensive, had one the other night that was about 1/3 the cost of what I spend on food for 2 weeks! But at least it’s something you need in some capacity.
It’s a sensible way of looking at finances in general but glad to see some positivity my man! Go get you that dead lady!!!
Or you live on bread and water for a month while praising GW for their benevolence. Food analogies are great.
I got into 3d printing. This hobby got significantly cheaper for me and I should have done it sooner.
It does save a bunch of money but it’s not for everyone. I’m a fan of printing, bits bases and even the odd proxy I much prefer working with plastic when possible. You go from spending pounds to pennies with a printer!
@@narrativecrusades707 It does have it's pros and cons. You need a spare room or a space with good ventilation. The plastic after being cured does feel less durable than a gw mini. However I have seen some stl files that put GWs work to shame. My nephew recently started a dark aeldar army. He bought a $50 bundle of stls, a $35 bottle of resin and asked me to print for him. In 6 days I made him about 835 points and $420 worth of models had he bought them from GW. That's if he could find them. Some of those models I made him are discontinued(grotesques).
“Sponsored by Games Workshop”
Ahh they are known for supporting tiny UA-cam channels to further their grand scheme and world plots 😂
My strategy for cost control is a dollar in dollar out policy. I only buy new kits with money I've gotten from selling ones from the pile of shame.
Great attitude and outlook the buying and selling aspect also helps slow down impulse buys to I imagine
The realization that got me into the hobby was: many guys my age have bought a sports car. I could have a gaming pc and two-three warhammer armies and still not equal the PURCHASE price of a single sports car, regardless of make or model if new. Much less cost if factoring in insurance and maintenance. I am not a car guy so buying an efficient car leaves more than enough left over for all my other hobbies combined. Its only a question of how one wants to spend their hobby money, what they enjoy and consider worth it.
That’s all it comes down to, are you happy with your purchases and do they provide you entertainment and happiness. I can’t imagine the entry level for sports cars is exactly, forgiving 😂. We shall keep the channel about warhammer and stave off our urge to go and buy Ferraris (we can’t anyway 🤪).
Love seeing positive points like this mate!
As an Australian, im going to hard disagree.
The mark up here is astronomical. Heavy intercessors are a dollar a point. Yes, thats right. For five squads, making 525 points (roughly a comabt patrol of old), i have to spend $525, then paints and tools.
GW could easily sell their models for less and make the hobby easier to get into, this making more bank by having MORE customers and more people playing and getting friends into it, but they refuse. They know anyone who touches the IP gets destroyed, they know they have a monoploy.
You defo are part of the aforementioned financially victimised. The mark up is insane. After looking at the prices that are charged in Australia I think I’d be looking at a different hobby unless I was a golden demon / single mini painter competition painter. Which is a shame to see so many priced out if it.
I’m not sure about the anyone who touches the IP gets destroyed that’s new to me. Is Australia mental for 3d printing ?
I used to do the calculation of booze to models as a means of justifying purchases and time spent on painting/playing. It even has had a hand in me going sober!
Waaaheeey! That’s great news it’s had a positive effect even if the local pub owner is down a good customer!
What's even cheaper is playing a good table top wargame 😊
It’s a subjective point my man, we enjoy 40k, 30k and some of the smaller games a ton. Legion and bolt action are also great games for their own merits.
What games do you suggest, always happy to hear about more good systems!
@narrativecrusades707 yea that was my grumpy oldmanhammer coming out.
The point near the start was excellent 👌
If you can afford it and see the value... Go ahead.
I always attribute price per hour of enjoyment and your going to the cinema price per hour is one I've personally used on; video games, TV subscriptions, days out, and ultimately miniature collecting.
Here here!
Glad you watched it my guy and liked the sentiment. All your examples are great and I agree with you.
You missed one massively important point. GW models and games are FOUR OR FIVE TIMES MORE EXPENSIEVE than every other game on the market. I can pick up a box of thirty 28mm WW2 figures for around $35 dollars. The rules for games from other companies are also far better written and more fun to play. In addition, historical games or generic fantasy and sci fi games don't give a damn if you use third party or 3D prints to play the game. My WW2 vehicles all cost me around $15 to $20 to have printed and shipped to my door. Infantry around $2 a piece. It's mind blowing that people still support GW and continue to play their crappy games.
I enjoy their game a lot and have for many years. I consider myself a painter more than a gamer and a lot of the other war games out there don’t hold up to the same level of detail. A few good ones for sure with a comparable price.
The rules is a whole other debate. At the end of the day if you don’t enjoy it mate and you enjoy other systems then there’s no harm in that. Support those companies that bring you entertainment and value, my points are still the same except the value is even better for yourself due to the lower price point.
Enjoy something for its own merits opposed to it being in opposition to GW!
compared to a golf membership it is cheaper yes. The reason GW is considered Expensive is when you start to compare with other Wargames. Compared to other tabletop wargames it is less of an money and time expenditure to get an army going. Plus a lot of competitors have free rules. that you can donwload or use an app for to make their armylists. My main games being Infinity and A song of Ice and fire the miniatures game. With the free acces to the rules, cheaper armies and less "sizeable" in compared to a standard Warhammer army, I much prefer them over GW.
Dam Straight!
I gotta say it's refreshing seeing someone that says it like it is. Yeah it's is pricey In a short space of time but you can get so much out of them and build up slowly. When people say Warhammer is expensive, whet they really mean is my 2000 point super list is expensive.
Objectively as you say, it’s expensive for what it is. The hours of enjoyment, entertainment and research all add i up p rapidly.
What would your number 1 bit of advice for a new player be?
@@narrativecrusades707 start slow, definitely kill team. One of the best things gw ever made. Also there are alternative games they make such as necromunda which is really worth it in my opinion.
I think of wargaming like a gym membership. If you get a $60 a month gym membership and then actually go to the gym three days a week almost every week, you are absolutely getting your money's worth. If you sign up hoping that the cost will motivate you to exercise, and when that strategy inevitably fails and you're never using the membership, well then yeah, it's an expensive waste.
Same thing with Warhammer. If you buy models that you then build, paint, and/or play with, you're absolutely getting your money's worth. But if you're just adding to a huge pile of shame and never actually playing any games or painting any minis, it's an expensive waste. HOWEVER, you can always sell off your pile of shame second hand and get most of your money back, unlike the black hole of the past gym months!
Ye olde gym membership. Which reminds me I need to get down to my own one more than once a week 😂
I mean an ideal world you do lose maybe 30-40% of the rrp you paid. But prices always going to go up! You are quite correct and I agree with your points here
The second I got old enough to realize i didnt care about the new video game everyones playing and will not play more than 2 hours of baldurs gate or whatever and go back to runescape, I had money for warhammer. The buy in to the hobby is definitely prohibitively high and gw needs to do better on starter boxes (wtf are the new combat patrols) but eventually you kinda understand why they are that price when its 5 years later and your still using the same 60 ork boyz every weekend.
Have got to agree on combat patrols the entry is getting harder for kids and teenagers / worse value. I’m the same with games I stopped buying them as I’d play such a little amount and get bored
You'll pay for what you like to do. I feed machine guns at current ammo prices. Yes, it hurts the wallet, but it sure is fun.
Yeah I bet that’s a bit more of a loud hobby 😂. If you enjoy it and can afford it, I guess it doesn’t matter!
It's fine to play competitive, but don't get caught up in the competitive mind set and buy product based solely on tournament winning lists...treat yourself to some narative games or a crusade campaign and fall in love with your army and favorite units all over again.
Exactly our kind of mind set! Welcome!
I really don't see warhammer as an expensive hobby at all, for the mere fact that even if you have the sloppiest and messiest 5 minute paint job on your models, they still fetch 50-70% of rrp on ebay, and even more if they're unpainted altogether.
And there's so many cheaper price points to jump in at, combat patrol for £70, kill team for £35. you can happily play kill team for a couple of years whilst slowly building up a 40k army, that cost spread over such a long time feels quite inconsequential, especially as you say for the amount of hours you spend painting them if so inclined.
And then there's comparing the cost of the minis to other tabletop games like shatterpoint, infinity or malifaux, or the likes of gundam or good quality scale models (not you airfix, you're bad) GW stuff is not only by FAR the best produced with the nicest plastic, it's also amongst the cheapest. And as someone that's been involved with plastic production, the kind of molds and production they need, the prices are really rather fantastic.
Would love to hear more about some of the plastic production it’s always interesting to get some insight and lean the ins and outs.
Your comment did make me laugh I do have to agree on quality. I think GW lead the way but also set the pricing bar other model companies know people will pay high prices and follow suit. Marvel crisis is incredibly expensive per figure but the cost is off set by needing so few to play I imagine the same with shatter point.
Had not even thought about kill team and I do warcry myself 😂 it’s defo a gateway game but my word the support for it is incredible
The thing (I think) that happens with most hobby buyers is that they buy a lot in a very short time, like they get excited about a new miniature coming out or they just can't wait to save enough.
But hey, that is only my opnion mam.
Fomo defo has an impact / excitement I’ve been guilty of both including your example. I think just being more aware and coming up with a hobby strategy will help most out
This hobby is as expensive as you want it to be like many others in my experience
Exactly, you can go crazy, but equally you can be controlled and measured!
This video is pure facts. It seems like the more of the mistakes you listed that a person makes, the more negative they are about the hobby in general. The amount of meta chasers who only build and prime their mini's that complain about GW being the most evil, money-hungry company on the face of the earth is astounding.
I used to be in a group online that began encouraging everyone to 3d print, and were secretly sharing illegal stl's of exact 40k models. The irony was they preached about it being right because "GW was so greedy". Absolute hypocrisy
The thing I find the weirdest is those groups will advocate paying for stls yet those very stls rip off the IP. I’m an advocate of proxies and bits but full on replicas is where I’m not a fan!
You are quite right when people enjoy the hobby and spend time doing it instead of what’s best rules wise they have a much better time. Yes it’s expensive yes it’s a big profit maker. If it went bankrupt so would the hobby!
Thanks for your comment mate, there’s been a few I’ve had to work through which haven’t been as positive 😂😂😂
INB4 the trolls and idiots decrying "Corporate apologist! GW IS TOO EXPENSIVE" - You are free NOT to enjoy this hobby, kindly either piss off and spend your money on something else - or just pirate/proxy/print and or recast your way into the hobby. I genuinely don't mind, so long as you STFU about the price. For all those saying "GW Deserve to go bankrupt" you would quickly be crying over the lack of a hobby to invest in, and then kack your pants at how inflated the 2nd hand market would then become.
I agree with you so much, if the company does go so does the hobby. There are so many warhammer UA-camrs who make a living off the company but seem to love the idea of the company going broke. If it happened they’d be back to the workforce 😂
Obviously painting is a big part of the hobby, but if it wasn’t for the game most people wouldn’t be buying the models. And when you compare 40k to any other board game, it is really expensive
Board games yes, wargames, still WH is the most expensive but not by far. Star Wars legion still costs a bomb.
Board games I think are the best value for money out there on the market
Great video, and a lot of good points made guys.
I think too many people get roped into the warp when looking at the hobby and especially GW, yes the hobby can get expensive god knows I've pumped some cash into it over 30yrs.
But when I look at the hours of enjoyment it's brought me and the friends I've made, it honestly adds up to nothing compared to other hobbies, trust me I've owned fast and furious cars many years ago that's a money pit.
Boy racer in the house!!! You better have some videos of you doing some skids in a supermarket car park!!!
I hadn’t even considered the people I’ve met. And friends I’ve made. That’s pretty epic way of looking at it!
@narrativecrusades707 Haha long gone are the days of me cruising round Tokyo drift style 😂.
I reckon this hobby is no different to any other hobby, you can get as much out of it as you put in, all a matter of perspective.
Warhammer is not a hobby. Warhammer is expensive. Miniature wargaming is a hobby. Miniature wargaming is not expensive.
Warhammer is certainly the branch of wargaming I’ve setup camp and made a hobby of. It’s the same point either way both aren’t expensive provided you’re putting time in.
There is 0 justification for the price on GW kits.
Resin printers are the future boys and Gw has more than earned it's end.
I like to 3d print to its an incredibly useful tool! 3d printing hasn’t hurt GW who have only continued to see record profits. It is expensive but they exist to make a profit, and that’s fine. If you want to print, print away it’s a valid form of enjoying the hobby!
If the company ever went under we wouldn’t have a globally unifying hobby anymore.
Nope. No no no. That’s a bs way to look at it. You can do that, but there is no point. It gives you results that do not point out the facts, only your feelings about your spending.
What you should look at is the percentage of profit a box of models yields. The product is worth 50c up to maybe 1,5£ per box of models, plus 1£ for the box. It costs a abything from 20£ to buy a kit. So at minimum they will get 700% profit. That is what you look at. Not your expenses per hour but how much more you give them for the product than they spent to make it.
Also them selling out does not mean that it’s not too expensive. It means that they made too few units of the product to cover the demand.
One thing you perhaps aren’t considering is that they have to pay concept artists to design artwork and theory for a model, then they have to go through a multi stage design process where world class sculptors will design and re design a model. Then it’s got to be painted by multiple teams, photographed, edited, graphic design, marketed, moulds made, printed, packed and transported.
I will never deny they make a massive mark up. I will never deny they could charge less. Their process is world class.
If you saw the margins super markets made or your energy companies or the banks on your house payments all things that you need Then I’d understand some complaints. Warhammer is a luxury we don’t need, it a hobby that for what I spend It keeps me engaged! Even now discussing with yourself is part of that!
I don’t profess to know economics, what I do know is the sales they make far out paces their ability to produce the stuff due to all the outve stock pieces.
Thanks for your comment whilst I don’t agree with some of your view points it’s nice to have some points of opposition to consider!
@@narrativecrusades707 But if that were true, competitors would be following the same logic buy they don't: mantic games, bolt action, historicals, all of these are produced far cheaper. Heck, Wargames Atlantic does some killer guard models for half the price. There are plenty of miniature manufacturers who don't charge as much, and the honest anser why GW does is because plastic manufacturing (once you have the facilities) is cheap and they can mark up the price (they're a public company so they need to justify dividends, i.e. growth, to their shareholders each month. That's why it's dissproportionately more expensive).
@@narrativecrusades707 This is all true but the company makes a clean 35% profit margin which is astronomically good, its a standard alone business in this regard. Majority of businesses operate on something like 5% percent profit margin . The catering industry in the UK averages around 2% profit, Apple Inc is on 10% for another frame of reference, Hell even some car companies don't even make a profit they just rely on floating on the stock market E.g. Tesla. My take is GW has garnered an almost cult like following where fans are willing to pay insane amounts of money for new models and GW or more importantly there shareholders abuse this fact. ( I know I'm one of them, I'm just realistic about what I am). This is my main point.
Another perspective which others have mentioned is the cost of raw products to final product. Eldrad cost me £22 for 11grams of polystyrene. 1 metric ton of polystyrene is just over £1000 that's like a 90,000% mark up, Insane. Yes production and branding does cost alot but dont forgot the profit margin they make.
In the grand scheme of things its not that much for a hobby compared to others. But those other companies in other hobbies don't make profit margins like GW.
assets.ctfassets.net/ost7hseic9hc/3Bxadr0YTIX0hGl1H7DPGe/8e1361726a8e0c8dfef9bcdae8299480/2022-23_accounts_-_final.pdf
Here's GWs financial report which all limited companies have to legally make availably. Its an 80 page document detailing all there operating costs and how the go about there business.