I've heard a few people bandy about the idea that Erebus is an amazing character. I've heard them say that he's a "love to hate villain". I personally hate that he exists so I am able to hate him. Would happily accept possession and all it's consequences, if it meant the demon killed him.
When Erebus talks to Arda and she calls Chaos, “ the end “ but Erebus, enslaved to chaos, argues that they are the truth, the conversation felt like Erebus rejecting the truth not spreading it
The Beginning and The End. The primordial destroyer and creator. the chaos gods are reflections of humanity (well all that is sentient but the literary subtext is focused on humans relationship with their own, literal, inner demons obviously because we dont know what alien psychological disorders are like) and thus capable of all that is good and evil. if chaos is nothing but pure evil that is rejecting that humans have anything less than pure evil in their mind and souls.
“Chaos is the end!” Also her “Be free my son!” Yeets Konrad into the planet so hard he crawls out of it, haz no sunlight, insane crime, he will witness it all as a infant as he is forced to dig out of the crust of the planet. Sends Vulkhan to a world that the dark Eldar routinely go to. Sends Morty to a toxic waste dump. Sends Russ info a frozen hell hole. Sends the Lion into a barely inhabited world. Sends Lorgar to a chaos world. Primarch 2 and 11’s world. “Okay, hear me out… they had really good ads for the education system.” Guiliman: “uh, those were advertising different planets of the same name.” Big E: “you took my map with you, how did you not know?!” Arda: “hey you weren’t using the map either!” Magnus: *crashes into living room.* “I ran over a dog, i tried to help it but…” Everyone: “a dog, you ruined our wall for a dog.” Russ: MAGNUS!!! Everyone: “That Dog!” Samus: *Cackeling* Magnus: “okay, i thought he wouldn’t notice if i slapped another doggo into the one i ran over and revived it…” Khan: “what did you do, he almost stole my bike to reach you.”
@@silent_stalker3687The thing is no one chose it except influenced a bit by chaos. They are protected by fate. She can yeet them at a black hole and they would still survive. The original deal was that half will fall.
Lorgar will definitely try to turn The Emperor into a God again. His long meditation is probably him planning the long game to build The Emperor's power to turn him into the dark king.
but does he actually want big E to become the dark king? Does chaos even want it? i honestly curious xD Cause i read/watched if the dark king would have happenend in 30k then everything we knew (in the lore-universum during 30k) would be gone, no mankind, eldars, necrons, chaos etc and something completely new would have happened which we dont know what it would be atleast thats what i understood from it xD
@@funfungerman8401True. Lorgar is an ardent fanatic of faith. His cornerstone is the Emperor being a god. This is his life long dream. It is completely in his MO to want this. Let us not forget that he was spurned by the chaos pantheon when they chose Horus over him and got humiliated the same way in Monarchia. So I think the seeds of doubt might have allowed him to go on a thousand year meditation. It would have given him time to reflect and would have probably sensed that his father truly became a god like he always wanted.
@@takosos tbh yeah that would be interesting but i think that GW will just continue to clown on lorgar ... he is essential the comic relief character xD that always gets stomped be it as a follower and creator of the imperial faith or as a stern and loyal follower of chaos...
@@funfungerman8401 Lorgar is probably going to do the Favbius route, He'll work with chaos ....while creating his main side project . Fabius is trying to create an "emperor" , Lorgar will make "his God Emperor" . If Lorgar has had enough being the Chaos God's punchline.
@@funfungerman8401Knowing Lorgar , His stubborn attachment to faith would probably make some sort of mental gymnastics to justify turnings the emperor into his ideal god. Even if the Big E becomes the 5th chaos god. It is implied that he would be the most powerful. (PS I can sense you are a fellow fan of TTS, I am too brotha. I approve :)
Jesus Christ one obscure book written over 20 years ago that I doubt anyone has even fucking read got picked up my Majorkill and suddenly it’s the only thing the Iron Warriors are known for.
Lorgar isn't naive, he's servile. He never weighs the merits of the Emperor's vison against the goals of Chaos. His pilgrimage taught him that powers exist that (unlike big E) want supplicants, and that they are arguably more powerful than big E, because he needed their help to build the primarchs. Lorgar was never loyal to big E's vision; he was loyal to who he *thought* was the baddest tyrant in the galaxy.
To be fair, the way he went about conquering did make it sound like he did also want supplicants rather than individual thinkers joining up of their own accord.
@@Tacoguy1000 By supplicants I mean worshippers. The Emperor was definitely not interested in having a plurality of opinions in the Imperium - he had a singular "imperial truth" that was compulsory. But didn't want Lorgar pushing a religion devoted to his worship, and that is EXACTLY the sort of thing the chaos pantheon is into.
Lorgar also suffered an abuse and domineering relationship between himself and his adoptive father, which would explain why he confused domination with coexistence.
Love me Architect Love me Dark Prince Love me Fly Lord Love me Blood God 'ate the Anathema 'ate the Unliving 'ate the Knife-ears 'ate the Swarm Not racist, just can't corrupt them.
Lorgar already knows what chaos is if you actually read him studying rituals watching sacrifices, he knows... Doesn't mean he needs to tell the truth, most stupid fans overlook lorgar just because of erebus.
erebus is more ateable then lorgar who everyone looks at as a pitiable fool sympathetic enough to know why he did it petty enough to not respect him at all for doing it.
Word Bearers and Alpha Legion are my favorite traitors deep down because ultimately their styles of warfare are how you win. Everyone else is playing whack a mole in an endless cycle while those 2 are seeding corruption. Which takes very little resources of your own aside from time. They can recruit vast armies to do the fighting and dying for them, and the Imperials by default lose out in that trade because it's often their own turning on them. So the WB and AL often times lose very little while the Imperials keep chipping away at their own resources and populace. Vraks is a prime example. All the time and bodies lost on that world for what? A depleted armory and a shit load of dead guardsmen. The chaos marines didn't really lose that much aside from 1 lord and honestly pretty small numbers of chaos marines. All the while they can spread corruption elsewhere unhindered. Abby talks about the long war but WB and AL are playing the real long war.
Seeing Chaos as a solution to Mankind's problems is the equivalent to ingesting tape worms to try to lose weight. Lorgar knows this, he's just a psychopath who seeks to shield his horrible deeds behind "divinity".
Disagree after reader Lorgar's primarch novel I think he genuinely would've followed the first true god he found whether it was evil or good. Also he hated war and saw his brother as warmongering robots and would actively seek diplomatic resolution so originally he's less of a sociopath than any of his brothers.(at least till falling to chaos)
Oh no. You think Lorgar didn’t know about the true nature of chaos. He knew. He has always known. And he did it anyway. Check his speech to Magnus before Armatura for more information.
@@72skci72 EXACTLY, when a space marines does something wrong, I blame the primarch. Lorgar should have had the wit to see through them. He allowed himself to be fooled. He was naive and shielded himself in a haze of faith and superstition when he should have known better.
@@alicemodeus7050Lorgar knew about their manipulations of him and their schemes by the Battle of Armatura which is why he was content with them dying on Calth. He was disappointed when they didn't which is why he willingly sold Erebus out to Kharn when the former murdered his comrade.
Meanwhile, Warhammer Fantasy had like 20 gods and they all hated Chaos, but warred so much between each other that most of the time it was orks or necromacy the ones who was f* the bed and the seasonal Chaos invasion was but an ordinary tuesday. (No, The End Times is just bad fanfiction)
@@waterbloom1213 The loyalists have their crazies too. Take the Black Dragons for example, they have horns and shit. There are also plenty of insane ones that ramble on about their god and commit warcrimes in his name. But I would trust the loyalists, simply because they are on my side and will hopefully protect me from the other crazies.
Most Astartes would step on you in an instant to get to the enemy. Outside of Salamanders you’re not guaranteed protection by any other legion. Iron Hands would oof you on purpose for being weak,Space Wolves wouldn’t look at you twice on a battlefield,nor would Ultramarines or Imperial Fists. No ones going to save you when it comes to Astartes. They’re there to kill the enemy not protect citizens. The Salamanders,Lamentors,Ravenguard, and maybe some other niche chapters would care about the random guardsman or citizen s but they’ve seen countless dead innocents. You would be a background dead body
One of Lorgar's titles is "Urizen." Unless you're familiar with William Blake's mystical poetry, this name means nothing, but it also means everything. In Blake's mysticism, there was an undivided primordial man called Albion, a divine figure who was both a man and a country. Eventually, through a series of events, he was divided into four "Zoas" of great spiritual power. These were: Tharmas: represented sensation. He had a female "emanation" named Enion who represented sexual desires. Blake associated him with the Father in the Christian trinity. Luvah: Literally "Lover", he represented human emotions. His female emanation was Vala, who represented nature. He was associated with the Son in the Trinity, but eventually became a figure of hatred and rebellion known as Orc, and instigates wars Urthona: literally "Earth Owner." He is the Zoa of Imagination, and mostly appears in Blakes works in his earthly form as a blacksmith character name Loas. His Female counterpart is Enarthimon, who is simultaneously his mate and his mother. He is associsted with the Holy Ghost in the Trinity. Urizen: (You Reason) is the Zoa of reason and abstraction. He is the foe of Loas (imagination/chaos) and Luvah (emotions). He is associstrd with the Heavenly Host, but is usually depicted as Satan himself. Now this is unusual for a writer to depict an entity and order as evil itself. But Blake disparaged the arrogance and absolutism of Enlightenment thinking, seeing it as an attempt to imprison humanity through stifling orthodoxy. Urizen is a tyrant that is prone to exaggerating his importance. And this is relevant to 40K because Lorgar's original sin was his attempt to create a religious cult with his father as God. The Emporer rebuked him, because it would have remolded him into abstract, and tyrannical figure presiding over stagnation, which was already an issue with the Imperium even then. Lorgar's sin wasn't believing that Chaos could coexist with order, but rather that order as exemplified by the Emporer was dominant. By remodeling the Emporer (a warp entity shaped by human imagination) as a named God, Lorgar was actually creating an evil greater than Chaos. 😂
And then he have the oncoming menace of the Dark King... By the way: awesome display of Blake's reading right there. For me he is the greatest poet that humanity ever created - along with Goethe. It is really, really good someone knowing with such depth about him nowadays. ❤🎉
Loregar did not believe in humanity's coexistence with chaos he only wanted the truth. And this video did not dispel the fact that chaos is warhammers primordial truth, you only succeeded in straw-manning loregar
@@isiahalcindor6278 Why yes, because it shows you know so little about a story, you don't even know the name of the characters. In a book or videos, you hear Lorgar's name repeated a million time, but if you don't even know how to spell his name, it means that you don't even know nor have you even checked the freaking wiki.
@@Artemisarrowzz Or it shows I made a mistake you fuckin dunce and unlike you, I don't edit my comments so address my point on this video about LORGAR or shut up
obviously, it reflects what happens when impulse and urges are left unchecked without limit and it continues to find things to fuel itself. it's like blind hatred given a symbolic form, it doesn't end and once it's subject ceases to exist, it will attempt to turn to another to repeat the process.
Even worse, lorgar is wrong about the very reason that led him to worship chaos. The four are not the "primordial truth" he so desired. They're only massive echoes created by soulful species who ate their way to the top, little more than the warp equivalent of natural selection.
@@bodricthered One is parasitic to an host ( humanity , the eldars ...etc ) the other one is ...well primordial . It is a big difference since it means they have literally no redeeming quality , there is nothing to be thankful for them , they are just oversized leech .
Lorgar is wrong because he thinks he understands Chaos. 40k history and (30k for that matter) has proven time and time again.. You don't eff with Chaos, Chaos effs with you. Abaddon uses it as a tool without allowing himself to be fully corrupted but his real goals are never fully stated. In any case, imho he's a million time's smarter than Lorgar will ever be on the subject. That and he doesn't get slapped around by a warp infused Corax in front of his own men lmao😎
i mean didnt abaddon basically say he just wants a "dark imperium"? as a imperium with him as its emperor and choas as its gods resulting in human eternal dominatrion of the stars.
The reason Lorgar and Magnus got along so well is because Lorgar believed in everything but himself and Magnus didn't believe in anything but himself. Lorgar is the weakest of all the Primarchs.
again the emperor shows he wasnt perfect and thus didnt deserce avbsolyute power. if he had any empathy left within him it would have spoken common sense. that burning his sons city to teach him lesson would result in rebellion. or maybe he should let mortarian slay his xenos father. or perhaps he should save angrons men alongside him etc etc.
"he should let mortarion slay his xeno father" Mortarion was about to get flatlined by said xenos father as Big E stepped in. If there is anyone who mortarion should have blamed it´s himself for being a fool.
@@Psychoangel-d23 the emperor the master physic someone so physically strong he could beat ork war bosses. couldnt physicall hold the xeno he was already teleporting behind for a second so mortarion could kill him?
Being opinionated about a Primarch's understanding of pretty much anything carries a certain weight of arrogance about it. Not sure what you mean by he's wrong though, seems to me he understands Chaos pretty well, likely far better than most in the setting, especially now that he basically is Chaos, or more specifically an arm of it, as Chaos is basically made up of everything else existing to begin with.
Lorgar is the emporers hipocrasy and denail. He was never looking for a "grand truth" he sought somerhing that would justify his actions and remove blame from himself
The psychic realm ultimately has one law in common with the material universe: Darwin wins. Selfish entities dedicated to their own propagation are the only enduring option. But since we just figured this out for material reality 5 min ago and still mostly reject it on an emotional level, it's hard to say why the Warp is like this except for 'keep it grimdark' reasons. If it actually reflected our minds, you'd figure that the 40k equivalent of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy would be supercharged from all those believing kids. It would be more like the internet, with sentient memes - still plenty of options for horror, but not just 24/7 skulls and dildos. That's only half the internet.
Great... another youtuber that fundamentally doesn't understand Lorgar and Chaos. "Imperium said so, so it has to be true. Trust me, bro" * The Chaos gods are not central to the warp, chaos is just a small part of the warp. * Lorgar didn't need faith. * Lorgar knows better than anyone the Horrors of Chaos and its nature. * Lorgar is not referred to as "Wisest of the Wise" for nothing * The Word Bearers are living proof Lorgar was right.
Never trust a demon...unless that demon is telling you to kill Erebus...
Don't trust demons, but trust Erebus even less. And when a demon offers you to help kill Erebus, then don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
I've heard a few people bandy about the idea that Erebus is an amazing character. I've heard them say that he's a "love to hate villain". I personally hate that he exists so I am able to hate him. Would happily accept possession and all it's consequences, if it meant the demon killed him.
IIRC, daemons in the lore thinks he's seriously messed up and evil, too. Like, when the literal _demons of Hell_ think you are sick and evil...
When Erebus talks to Arda and she calls Chaos, “ the end “ but Erebus, enslaved to chaos, argues that they are the truth, the conversation felt like Erebus rejecting the truth not spreading it
The Beginning and The End. The primordial destroyer and creator. the chaos gods are reflections of humanity (well all that is sentient but the literary subtext is focused on humans relationship with their own, literal, inner demons obviously because we dont know what alien psychological disorders are like) and thus capable of all that is good and evil. if chaos is nothing but pure evil that is rejecting that humans have anything less than pure evil in their mind and souls.
“Chaos is the end!”
Also her
“Be free my son!”
Yeets Konrad into the planet so hard he crawls out of it, haz no sunlight, insane crime, he will witness it all as a infant as he is forced to dig out of the crust of the planet.
Sends Vulkhan to a world that the dark Eldar routinely go to.
Sends Morty to a toxic waste dump.
Sends Russ info a frozen hell hole.
Sends the Lion into a barely inhabited world.
Sends Lorgar to a chaos world.
Primarch 2 and 11’s world.
“Okay, hear me out… they had really good ads for the education system.”
Guiliman: “uh, those were advertising different planets of the same name.”
Big E: “you took my map with you, how did you not know?!”
Arda: “hey you weren’t using the map either!”
Magnus: *crashes into living room.* “I ran over a dog, i tried to help it but…”
Everyone: “a dog, you ruined our wall for a dog.”
Russ: MAGNUS!!!
Everyone: “That Dog!”
Samus: *Cackeling*
Magnus: “okay, i thought he wouldn’t notice if i slapped another doggo into the one i ran over and revived it…”
Khan: “what did you do, he almost stole my bike to reach you.”
😂😂😂@@silent_stalker3687
@@silent_stalker3687The thing is no one chose it except influenced a bit by chaos. They are protected by fate. She can yeet them at a black hole and they would still survive. The original deal was that half will fall.
I agree. Erebus is that edgy kid you can't get to shut up about his screamo band. He also doesn't want to hear that no one else likes it.
Lorgar will definitely try to turn The Emperor into a God again.
His long meditation is probably him planning the long game to
build The Emperor's power to turn him into the dark king.
but does he actually want big E to become the dark king?
Does chaos even want it?
i honestly curious xD
Cause i read/watched if the dark king would have happenend in 30k then everything we knew (in the lore-universum during 30k) would be gone, no mankind, eldars, necrons, chaos etc and something completely new would have happened which we dont know what it would be
atleast thats what i understood from it xD
@@funfungerman8401True. Lorgar is an ardent fanatic of faith. His cornerstone is the Emperor being a god.
This is his life long dream. It is completely in his MO to want this. Let us not forget that he was spurned by the chaos pantheon when they chose Horus over him and got humiliated the same way in Monarchia.
So I think the seeds of doubt might have allowed him to go on a thousand year meditation. It would have given him time to reflect and would have probably sensed that his father truly became a god like he always wanted.
@@takosos tbh yeah that would be interesting but i think that GW will just continue to clown on lorgar ... he is essential the comic relief character xD that always gets stomped be it as a follower and creator of the imperial faith or as a stern and loyal follower of chaos...
@@funfungerman8401 Lorgar is probably going to do the Favbius route, He'll work with chaos ....while creating his main side project . Fabius is trying to create an "emperor" , Lorgar will make "his God Emperor" . If Lorgar has had enough being the Chaos God's punchline.
@@funfungerman8401Knowing Lorgar , His stubborn attachment to faith would probably make some sort of mental gymnastics to justify turnings the emperor into his ideal god. Even if the Big E becomes the 5th chaos god. It is implied that he would be the most powerful.
(PS I can sense you are a fellow fan of TTS, I am too brotha. I approve :)
Meanwhile Chad iron warriors: yea I know it’s evil and stuff but it’s time to get chaos and machine together to see more kids into the demonculaba
Iron warriors laughing as they grab a demon by the throat and force them into the siege engine.
Jesus Christ one obscure book written over 20 years ago that I doubt anyone has even fucking read got picked up my Majorkill and suddenly it’s the only thing the Iron Warriors are known for.
@@BcuzieatironNot the first time. Just look at the Death Specters and their... repopulateion worlds.
@@BcuzieatironWell, it's quite a cool and peculiar thing.
Iron warriors = Only chaos faction that isnt cringe
Lorgar isn't naive, he's servile. He never weighs the merits of the Emperor's vison against the goals of Chaos. His pilgrimage taught him that powers exist that (unlike big E) want supplicants, and that they are arguably more powerful than big E, because he needed their help to build the primarchs. Lorgar was never loyal to big E's vision; he was loyal to who he *thought* was the baddest tyrant in the galaxy.
Tbf his upbringing kinda cement that with Kor Pharon beating the shit out of him
To be fair, the way he went about conquering did make it sound like he did also want supplicants rather than individual thinkers joining up of their own accord.
@@Tacoguy1000 By supplicants I mean worshippers. The Emperor was definitely not interested in having a plurality of opinions in the Imperium - he had a singular "imperial truth" that was compulsory. But didn't want Lorgar pushing a religion devoted to his worship, and that is EXACTLY the sort of thing the chaos pantheon is into.
Lorgar also suffered an abuse and domineering relationship between himself and his adoptive father, which would explain why he confused domination with coexistence.
Love me Architect
Love me Dark Prince
Love me Fly Lord
Love me Blood God
'ate the Anathema
'ate the Unliving
'ate the Knife-ears
'ate the Swarm
Not racist, just can't corrupt them.
ave imperator noctis
And the orks?
@@hazardousmaterial5492 'ate the Shroomies. D'uh!
'nuff said
'Ate blueberries too by this reasoning
Lorgar already knows what chaos is if you actually read him studying rituals watching sacrifices, he knows... Doesn't mean he needs to tell the truth, most stupid fans overlook lorgar just because of erebus.
They over look the word bearers cause they don't do the whole charge a gunline and do a last stand for no reason stuff
erebus is more ateable then lorgar who everyone looks at as a pitiable fool sympathetic enough to know why he did it petty enough to not respect him at all for doing it.
Word Bearers and Alpha Legion are my favorite traitors deep down because ultimately their styles of warfare are how you win. Everyone else is playing whack a mole in an endless cycle while those 2 are seeding corruption. Which takes very little resources of your own aside from time. They can recruit vast armies to do the fighting and dying for them, and the Imperials by default lose out in that trade because it's often their own turning on them. So the WB and AL often times lose very little while the Imperials keep chipping away at their own resources and populace. Vraks is a prime example. All the time and bodies lost on that world for what? A depleted armory and a shit load of dead guardsmen. The chaos marines didn't really lose that much aside from 1 lord and honestly pretty small numbers of chaos marines. All the while they can spread corruption elsewhere unhindered. Abby talks about the long war but WB and AL are playing the real long war.
Dominating and coexistence are not mutually exclusive. The master and servant coexist just fine...
I think, it can not be applied here. They are ruinous in its nature. They will eventually destroy mortals
Its not servitude its slavery.
Seeing Chaos as a solution to Mankind's problems is the equivalent to ingesting tape worms to try to lose weight. Lorgar knows this, he's just a psychopath who seeks to shield his horrible deeds behind "divinity".
Disagree after reader Lorgar's primarch novel I think he genuinely would've followed the first true god he found whether it was evil or good. Also he hated war and saw his brother as warmongering robots and would actively seek diplomatic resolution so originally he's less of a sociopath than any of his brothers.(at least till falling to chaos)
He was correct about Man needing faith, as faith in the Emperor is the only thing keeping Man alive.
He was dead wrong about everything else.
Oh no. You think Lorgar didn’t know about the true nature of chaos. He knew. He has always known. And he did it anyway. Check his speech to Magnus before Armatura for more information.
Lorgar already knew everything about chaos. Kor phaeron and erebus were just unknowing pawns in lorgars game
@@72skci72 EXACTLY, when a space marines does something wrong, I blame the primarch. Lorgar should have had the wit to see through them. He allowed himself to be fooled. He was naive and shielded himself in a haze of faith and superstition when he should have known better.
@@alicemodeus7050Lorgar knew about their manipulations of him and their schemes by the Battle of Armatura which is why he was content with them dying on Calth. He was disappointed when they didn't which is why he willingly sold Erebus out to Kharn when the former murdered his comrade.
Logar is more naive than a french maid
And magnus is more naive than Lorgar
And more attractive too
Meanwhile, Warhammer Fantasy had like 20 gods and they all hated Chaos, but warred so much between each other that most of the time it was orks or necromacy the ones who was f* the bed and the seasonal Chaos invasion was but an ordinary tuesday. (No, The End Times is just bad fanfiction)
Chaos is cringe
Well put.
Emperor is cringe
@@ильянвокиво your whole life and lineage is cring
@@funfungerman8401 your whole planet and galaxy is cring
Necessary counter balance
You know I kinda distrusted chaos when I saw their followers have horns' n shit
And the vagina teeth, and rot, and the flies, and the raving lunacy...
@@waterbloom1213 The loyalists have their crazies too. Take the Black Dragons for example, they have horns and shit. There are also plenty of insane ones that ramble on about their god and commit warcrimes in his name. But I would trust the loyalists, simply because they are on my side and will hopefully protect me from the other crazies.
@@nextdoorneighbour
Black Dragons are heretics
Most Astartes would step on you in an instant to get to the enemy. Outside of Salamanders you’re not guaranteed protection by any other legion. Iron Hands would oof you on purpose for being weak,Space Wolves wouldn’t look at you twice on a battlefield,nor would Ultramarines or Imperial Fists. No ones going to save you when it comes to Astartes. They’re there to kill the enemy not protect citizens. The Salamanders,Lamentors,Ravenguard, and maybe some other niche chapters would care about the random guardsman or citizen s but they’ve seen countless dead innocents. You would be a background dead body
@@CeoofUnitedHealthcare-l5w
The Iron Warriors would help me
Logan truly is the saddest of the primes. He's literally a demi-god who would rather be sad nerd boy constantly in need of validation.
I think Angron was sadder as a Primarch than Lorgar.
Imagine the Imperium had the Emperor bothered being a better dad.
Chaos needed in the words of Lenin - “a useful idiot”.
Great quote!
One of Lorgar's titles is "Urizen." Unless you're familiar with William Blake's mystical poetry, this name means nothing, but it also means everything.
In Blake's mysticism, there was an undivided primordial man called Albion, a divine figure who was both a man and a country. Eventually, through a series of events, he was divided into four "Zoas" of great spiritual power. These were:
Tharmas: represented sensation. He had a female "emanation" named Enion who represented sexual desires. Blake associated him with the Father in the Christian trinity.
Luvah: Literally "Lover", he represented human emotions. His female emanation was Vala, who represented nature. He was associated with the Son in the Trinity, but eventually became a figure of hatred and rebellion known as Orc, and instigates wars
Urthona: literally "Earth Owner." He is the Zoa of Imagination, and mostly appears in Blakes works in his earthly form as a blacksmith character name Loas. His Female counterpart is Enarthimon, who is simultaneously his mate and his mother. He is associsted with the Holy Ghost in the Trinity.
Urizen: (You Reason) is the Zoa of reason and abstraction. He is the foe of Loas (imagination/chaos) and Luvah (emotions). He is associstrd with the Heavenly Host, but is usually depicted as Satan himself.
Now this is unusual for a writer to depict an entity and order as evil itself. But Blake disparaged the arrogance and absolutism of Enlightenment thinking, seeing it as an attempt to imprison humanity through stifling orthodoxy. Urizen is a tyrant that is prone to exaggerating his importance.
And this is relevant to 40K because Lorgar's original sin was his attempt to create a religious cult with his father as God. The Emporer rebuked him, because it would have remolded him into abstract, and tyrannical figure presiding over stagnation, which was already an issue with the Imperium even then. Lorgar's sin wasn't believing that Chaos could coexist with order, but rather that order as exemplified by the Emporer was dominant. By remodeling the Emporer (a warp entity shaped by human imagination) as a named God, Lorgar was actually creating an evil greater than Chaos.
😂
And then he have the oncoming menace of the Dark King...
By the way: awesome display of Blake's reading right there. For me he is the greatest poet that humanity ever created - along with Goethe. It is really, really good someone knowing with such depth about him nowadays. ❤🎉
Chiming in to point out that Prospero stands.
Look, Wordbearers basically one of few factions which basically won.
Lorgar made Emperor into God, whether he like it or not.
If your agenda has to be built off of misrepresenting a character maybe you should take the agenda back to the drawing board
You sure?
@@iseeundeadpeople9 yea I'm pretty positive
Loregar did not believe in humanity's coexistence with chaos he only wanted the truth. And this video did not dispel the fact that chaos is warhammers primordial truth, you only succeeded in straw-manning loregar
you know so little of the setting that you cannot even spell his name right
@@Artemisarrowzz Try scrutinizing my argument instead of my spelling dork
@@Artemisarrowzz Oh Yeah I put an E in his name so my entire argument is invalid... you sound ridiculous
@@isiahalcindor6278 Why yes, because it shows you know so little about a story, you don't even know the name of the characters. In a book or videos, you hear Lorgar's name repeated a million time, but if you don't even know how to spell his name, it means that you don't even know nor have you even checked the freaking wiki.
@@Artemisarrowzz Or it shows I made a mistake you fuckin dunce and unlike you, I don't edit my comments so address my point on this video about LORGAR or shut up
obviously, it reflects what happens when impulse and urges are left unchecked without limit and it continues to find things to fuel itself. it's like blind hatred given a symbolic form, it doesn't end and once it's subject ceases to exist, it will attempt to turn to another to repeat the process.
Even worse, lorgar is wrong about the very reason that led him to worship chaos.
The four are not the "primordial truth" he so desired. They're only massive echoes created by soulful species who ate their way to the top, little more than the warp equivalent of natural selection.
Its basically adoring a acumulation of ideas that take "divine" forms
Yeah, but at their scale what's the difference really?
So in his own way, it's a twisted version of the Imperial Truth, which preached science over gods and mysticism.
@@bodricthered well, the scale does not matter toward truthfulness.
Plus, it matters as it means that just as they arose, they could disappears
@@bodricthered One is parasitic to an host ( humanity , the eldars ...etc ) the other one is ...well primordial .
It is a big difference since it means they have literally no redeeming quality , there is nothing to be thankful for them , they are just oversized leech .
Ironically joining Chaos is more akin to signing the Enabling Act of 1933 than "liberation".
Lorgar, you silly sausage! What have you gone and done now?
Lorgar is wrong because he thinks he understands Chaos. 40k history and (30k for that matter) has proven time and time again.. You don't eff with Chaos, Chaos effs with you. Abaddon uses it as a tool without allowing himself to be fully corrupted but his real goals are never fully stated. In any case, imho he's a million time's smarter than Lorgar will ever be on the subject. That and he doesn't get slapped around by a warp infused Corax in front of his own men lmao😎
i mean didnt abaddon basically say he just wants a "dark imperium"? as a imperium with him as its emperor and choas as its gods resulting in human eternal dominatrion of the stars.
@@housewilma4904 nope. He doesnt want that
Too be fair Lorgar is wrong about a lot of sh!t
A Bad'n, The Destroyer. Well he's not wrong.
Is this AI narrated?
The reason Lorgar and Magnus got along so well is because Lorgar believed in everything but himself and Magnus didn't believe in anything but himself. Lorgar is the weakest of all the Primarchs.
This was either written. By AI or a terrible writer.
Very repetitive and barely gets to the point.
lorgar has been missing too long. we need to hear from him again. see how all his crazy shit happened out.
He was wrong, but I think demon lorgar is more disillusioned by chaos now
again the emperor shows he wasnt perfect and thus didnt deserce avbsolyute power.
if he had any empathy left within him it would have spoken common sense.
that burning his sons city to teach him lesson would result in rebellion.
or maybe he should let mortarian slay his xenos father.
or perhaps he should save angrons men alongside him etc etc.
"he should let mortarion slay his xeno father"
Mortarion was about to get flatlined by said xenos father as Big E stepped in.
If there is anyone who mortarion should have blamed it´s himself for being a fool.
@@Psychoangel-d23 the emperor the master physic someone so physically strong he could beat ork war bosses.
couldnt physicall hold the xeno he was already teleporting behind for a second so mortarion could kill him?
The galaxy darkest era....what it was not dark enough before that huh
poor lorgar
Do people nowdays record nothing without Text to speech?
Being opinionated about a Primarch's understanding of pretty much anything carries a certain weight of arrogance about it. Not sure what you mean by he's wrong though, seems to me he understands Chaos pretty well, likely far better than most in the setting, especially now that he basically is Chaos, or more specifically an arm of it, as Chaos is basically made up of everything else existing to begin with.
Lorgar is the emporers hipocrasy and denail.
He was never looking for a "grand truth" he sought somerhing that would justify his actions and remove blame from himself
Thats what most religious people do reject taking responsibility for their actions towards other people istead say that god commanded them to do it.
@@misanthropicattackhelicopt4148 Reddit moment.
Chaos is based. And Lorgar was right.
Chaos is right.
This is incorrect. Unity with the Empyrean is the true and destined perfection of humanity; any attempts to forestall it are egotistical folly. #XVI
Well done. VIII.
Love me some AI content
The psychic realm ultimately has one law in common with the material universe: Darwin wins. Selfish entities dedicated to their own propagation are the only enduring option. But since we just figured this out for material reality 5 min ago and still mostly reject it on an emotional level, it's hard to say why the Warp is like this except for 'keep it grimdark' reasons. If it actually reflected our minds, you'd figure that the 40k equivalent of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy would be supercharged from all those believing kids. It would be more like the internet, with sentient memes - still plenty of options for horror, but not just 24/7 skulls and dildos. That's only half the internet.
The most repetive video I've ever seen.
Great... another youtuber that fundamentally doesn't understand Lorgar and Chaos. "Imperium said so, so it has to be true. Trust me, bro"
* The Chaos gods are not central to the warp, chaos is just a small part of the warp.
* Lorgar didn't need faith.
* Lorgar knows better than anyone the Horrors of Chaos and its nature.
* Lorgar is not referred to as "Wisest of the Wise" for nothing
* The Word Bearers are living proof Lorgar was right.
Lorgar is wrong and water is wet. Who would have thought.