Fail Forward | 5e Dungeons and Dragons | Web DM
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- Опубліковано 30 бер 2021
- Failure is a part of all tabletop roleplaying games, but sometimes, let's be honest, it's a boring and frustrating part. This week, we discuss ways to make failure more interesting and more useful in D&D and TTRPG, and give you some food for thought about when its actually best to fail. Support our sponsor! Go to www.dungeonfog.com/webdm and get 10% off annual memberships, and check out the PROJECT DEIOS ALPHA 2!
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I appreciate this channel's continued push back against jargon and platitudes. Whether it's solidifying of phrases like "fail forward" or the push back against the "fun always everywhere" culture of 5e. It is not that WebDM is contrarian or edgy, just that you take the time to take a nuanced look at some of the most pervasive pieces of "advice" given to GMs/DMs. The nuance provided is the primary reason I watch WebDM every week. Thanks for the quality content.
Thank you Sean. That is great to hear. We strive to give advice that reflects the games at our tables over the years and we approach that job as deeply and thoughtfully as we can.
Hey, not sure I understand what you mean (and I'm curious to). Jargon is consequential to communication and isn't inherent bad, it's inevitable when talking within niches and communities, it's prohibiting to outsiders but I find it increases efficiency to those that understand it.
I'm assuming you're talking about forge/story-now talk forums where people deconstruct(ed) the hobby and come up with concepts, buzzwords, mechanics, systems, etc and by the derrogatory tone I'm assuming you disapprove of this. Personally I never got the hate those forums garned, and while I wasn't an user back then I profited tremendously from whatever came out of those discussions, and any presumption, if any (Never felt it when delving on old archives) is unimportant by what resulted, with its discoveries finding their way to mainstream rpgs even 20 years later (and sometimes pretending its new).
Take for instance this video, webdm plays the jargon straight and simply explains what it means and expands on the subject . I don't see any force made to "push back" jargon here, and it shouldn't frankly. Personally I already knew what it means and I was curious on what they had to say about it (nice video btw), and people that didn't know knows the code now. There's no 7-headed monster here, Fail Forward means this but it could mean anything else or be called anything else agreed on for the sake of efficiency. So, when people say fail forward I know and other people know what it (generally) means, and when discussing FF or any other concept/jargon/buzzword things can be picked up from there instead of starting from scratch.
Anyway, sorry if that wasn't what you meant.
PS: never heard of "fun always everywhere".
@@Johnny0Masters So I do not like jargon because it acts, more often than not, as a gatekeeping mechanism. While it can be helpful shorthand for those in the know it also serves as another layer of "knowledge" that has to be obtained before you are let into the group. Also, the utility of jargon as shorthand is debatable as factions form in the in-group and argue about the meaning of the jargon. For example in the legal field jargon is hotly contested and debated. In D&D there are tons of discussions about what railroading means, what a sandbox is, what player agency means, etc. etc.
So, when jargon/shorthand is used as advice to those who are just entering the community its value is low and when buzzwords/jargon are used in the community it is usually meant to prop up a point or position or signal value. "Railraod"=bad is a really common example of using jargon to immediately signal a position without actually presenting that position.
People say "fail forward" but do not explain what that means, they say "never tell the players no" but do not explain that this is actually hyperbole, they say "the game is about fun" but do not explain that fun is subjective and does not exclude things like failure, setbacks, and negative consequences. These things may seem obvious to those who have been in the community for a while, but to a new DM or player, these vague phrases can be very confusing and unhelpful.
WebDM explores these concepts and presents positions around them. They may not always be agreeable but they at least discuss the closely held beliefs of gaming culture more than many other content creators. For example in the "tyranny of fun" video (one of my favorites), Jim and Pruitt open up talking about how there is a play culture where you are told you must be having "fun" at all times otherwise you are playing wrong. They elaborate on this point by discussing rules that have been labeled "unfun" and discarded. They also discuss this in the "rule of cool" episode where they note that the oft-cited "rule of cool" is used to signal to people, I'm a fun/cool/good GM/DM, while the term itself is ill-defined bordering on useless.
Basically, I appreciate that WebDM is willing to explore and even disagree with the closely held beliefs that develop in the gaming community, including jargon, and shibboleths.
@@seanhavern2384 But muh "yes, and"... I heard from Mercer (greatest DM of all time) that "yes, and" is the greatest tool in a DM:s arsenal!!
@@Blargaha Yeah, Mercer's rules for the rule of cool are also terrible. Notably "never say never, someone may roll a natural 20." What? Like I do not care if you roll a nat 20 there are tons of things you cannot do. Anyway, nothing against Matt he is ten times better at DMing than me, he just has 1 million times more visibility so the silly stuff he says/does gets amplified.
The Dunk and Egg stories are a brilliant example of failing forward. The protagonists don't succeed at everything, but whether success or failure, all the events propel the story forward.
Changing the DC based on failure is my favorite.
Failed searching for a set of tracks: time goes by and the DC lowers because you've already searched some.
Failed a persuasion: npc is annoyed and the DC increases.
Wasting the characters' time (not the players') could be a very real consequence
I don’t think like. I prefer “you follow foot prints that you think are the ones. You realIze halfway through that they aren’t, but you notice they disappear and you find a little girls show”
Stuff that leads to other adventures that will lead to the adventure they started on.
Or:
Failed searching for a set of tracks: time goes by and the DC increases because weather destroys some of the tracks.
@@jonathancummins6234 This is why the random encounter was invented. Every ten minute interval, roll for an encounter. Every time they do something significant, increment the time by ten minutes. The longer they screw around, the more likely they are to be hit by a wandering monster.
It worked even better (for the DM) back in Original/Basic/1e DnD, when PCs got the lion's share of their XP from loot, and very little from killing monsters. Back then, getting into a fight was a sign something went wrong, both because of danger and because it taxed their resources.
@@Bluecho4 Your last point also works in games that use the milestone level up method
Raymond Chandler, one of the greats of hard boiled detective fiction; "When in doubt, have a man come through the door with a gun in his hand."
This concept is particular important in hard modules like Curse of Strahd. TPKing to the witches is very common and kills most campaigns but when applying this concept, you can salvage the campaign from the TPK and introduce a new conflict to the story, IE the hags instead of killing you all, just wounds you to the inch of your lives, traps you in steel cages and asks that you plant a scrying eye in castle ravenloft in exchange for your freedom.
Its a great fit for dark campaigns where monsters frequently exploit the vulnerability of the common races. Mind Flayers and Dopplegangers and Fey and Fiends all love to prey on the PCs and exploit them for further gains. There's always a deal to be made, there's always a way to dig deeper into debt.
@@chastermief839 Earlier versions of DnD (notable example: Keep on the Borderlands) made a point of showing that intelligent monsters (for a certain value of intelligence, obviously) will take prisoners. Either ransoming them back to the party, or locking them away in a dungeon for whatever reason (dinner, to be sold into slavery, mind control attempts, experimentation, etc).
The DM can always come up with a reason for why a monster wants to keep the PCs alive. And so long as the PCs are alive, they can think of a way out.
My mentality has always been that their skill level is pretty static, as represented by their bonus to the relevant skill/attack.
The dice roll is ALWAYS chance, fate, and other external factors.
Even earlier in FotR - failed survival check means you have to go through the mines of Moria rather than the pass of Caradhras because of a blizzard conjured by Saruman
I need to be able to like this more than once...
Ford of the Rings?
@@Treblaine Fellowship of the ring lol
@@Flaraen ... well that makes too much sense.
I love these ideas to keep the campaign rolling without doing a skill check pile-on. Thank you guys so much!
I've seen stuff about 'failing forward' before, and it is something I want to work into my games. I love your idea about failing not just being the characters not succeeding, but something else coming along and either causing it to not work or interrupting them. It makes the world more dynamic and responsive to the characters' actions, and can open up other avenues of progression that make for a more compelling story that otherwise couldn't have happened.
Whenever a character fails something they're supposed to be good at due to bad roll, I always describe it as fault of external factors i.e. the rogue quickly discovers that the lock is rusted shut and can't be picked. In similar fashion, when character doesn't know what they're doing but succeeds only because of that nat 20, I have no trouble describing them bumbling through sheer luck alone. It maintains the verisimilitude of the game setting in my opinion.
Advice is always top tier, but that Gloryhammer shirt is glorious af
Failure is very important. It creates tension. It drives the plot. It can cause excitement if done right. That said, it can also be done blandly.
I like the idea of adding a new element or more information about the skill check when someone fails. I like to increase the DC by 1 or 2 whenever they fail by at least 5 or 10, respectively.
With the lock picking concept, I have had the pick itself break, that took away the ability to pick the lock at all by anyone. It also meant the key did not work from the other side. The characters hear the enemy on the other side talk about going the other way around, so now the characters know there is another path, and they don't know how soon they may face the enemy they just disturbed..
Started my first campaign a few weeks ago.
Cheers to you guys! You were a big help!
Glad to hear it Daniel! Keep up the good work!
I think of failed rolls like missing an exit. Yeah, it's a set back to have to drive another mile before you can course correct, but you still get to see some things on the way that you would have missed getting straight from Route A to B.
Edit: A trick I use is to try to keep motion going. Not just say.."No" and then wait. Have some thing happen. failing an action is still an action and should have a reaction.
That's definitely a good way to approach them in many situations!
A lot of times when I miss exits, it's because I second guess how far I need to drive, or which direction I needed to go.
This video came at a great time. In my home game that I’m running the party has just taken a big loss. Thanks
Glad to help, Chuck!
Love your take on failure. This is how I've always conceptualized d20 rolls. Ability modifiers represent a character's natural talent. Proficiency represents the character's experience and training. Combined they represent skill at a type of task. A higher total skill score represents a larger range of situations where the character can complete a task without complication, but the character's skill level doesn't fluctuate. The d20 determines whether or not the circumstances in the moment fall within that character's range of competence.
Beard lookin skrong Pruett
Very Stronk!
Dude getting jacked too good for you man
Hell yeah it is.
Swole
First thing I noticed is the Gloryhammer t-shirt. Keep up the good work and rock on guys! 🤘🤘🤘
At 16:50, you hit one of my favorite recent mechanics for skill checks in D&D - a check is not success or failure, but how long something takes. This would be especially good for what Pruitt mentioned early in the video about getting locked out of the dungeon. Roll a 20, you are inside in 1 minute. Roll a 1, you might be working that lock for 20 minutes.
Good point!
If only they would bring in the take 10 or take 20 mechanic from pathfinder into 5e.
I think it's important to consider what sort of behaviour you can inadvertently discourage in players with certain fail states. If every time the sneaky character tries to sneak and fails, action breaks out it makes those types of characters feel less useful/important etc.
Same with when the big fighter tries to intimidate and threaten through problems or the bard tries to sweet talk through problems. All types can fail equally.
I am always a fan of "How do you fail?" Using the door example, let the player choose to just fail and drop it, or maybe offer them they can still get the door open, but the rusted pieces snap some of the delicate instruments in the thieves tools; effectively "destroying" them till they can replace it. Possibly at half cost since most of the kit is still alright, just need to get a few important ones replaced.
24:48 As Matthew Colville would say, ORCS ATTACK!
1985games' deck of stories are a great tool for thinking about these kind of things. Each card has a story hook as well as leading questions as to what happens after the hook or what the hook means. For instance "an empty cabin contains a feast that is not what it seems. Danger lies in every corner. is the food poisoned? Will the owners return soon?"
This is not exactly the same thing, but as a tool I find it helps get in this kind of mind set.
When the dice close a door the DM opens a window.
And the players promptly take that window and begin attempting to use it to open the door
Pruitt Orson Wells beard on point
The intro was a long walk and I enjoyed every step lol
Absolutely love that thumbnail!
Probably one of your best in my opinion.
Thank you!!!
I love how WebDM has great advice that goes completely contrary to how WotC writes adventures! WotC has so many "they just gotta get this check and there's no consequence for failure" moments. WebDM has the system mastered more than its creators!
Thank you for the compliment!!!
@@WebDM Cheers, love this stuff.
I remember the 'taking a 20' option from 4th edition. Instead of rolling for a skill check, you could do it slowly over ten minutes and treat the check as if you rolled a 20 (IIRC). Ritual-casting a skill check, if you will. You could probably adapt that for 5E in a way that works for your table.
Going back to 3/3.5, you take as long as it would take to attempt the check 20 times, and count as having rolled every result from 1 through to 20. So, if the check has a negative outcome (i.e. if you fail the check by 5 or more you take damage) you can't take 20, but if it's just the "on a fail nothing happens" type checks you can just take enough time to make sure you get it right.
The last game I was running had two spell casters and a barbarian. The spell casters would interact with things or manipulate spells or what have you, and the barb would wait for them to try and then would try to imitate them. He actually got lucky when doing this a couple of times, and I would let the barb pick the enchantment for the scroll, or change the result based on his character. The spell casters got cautious about dogpiling tasks because what happens if the one-time-use enchanting table gives us another stick that can launch itself at people?
It was considered a complete failure, and the group started to become more cautious in those situations, but that stick was stupid useful
Pruett's beard is GLORIOUS.
Matt Colville's, "Orcs ATTACK!!" where during a lull when PCs are stuck have Orcs (or some other side story baddie) attack the party.
We’ve all seen the result of low perception rolls - “you’re outside”. I think it’s much more interesting to provide information that may be wrong rather than no information at all. “You’re sure that animal you heard is a bird.” (When it reality it’s much nastier - don’t some reptiles sound like birds?).
We're thinking we're gonna do a whole show on perception checks
I think Matt Colville gave a great scenario for failing forward. He basically turned Indiana Jones into a d&d session. You see a pit and attempt to jump across, make a dex check. You fail, so you attempt to jump the pit but fall a little short and end up hanging off the opposite side by your fingers. You try to pull yourself out of the pit, make a strength check. You fail, lose your grip and fall some number of feet before catching yourself, but your weapon falls down the pit. You see a root and try to pull yourself out again. Make another strength check. You fail, turns out the root was a vine, and you rip it out as you try to pull yourself out.
Eventually you're gonna get it, but this makes for better story telling than you failed your check, you fall and die, now roll up a new character.
Recently, playing Rise of Tiamat (no storyline spoilers) as a Dreamlands Cat (from Petersen’s Cthulhu Mythos) Sorcerer 6 / Monk 1 / Warlock 1:
The party was invited to the armory in Waterdeep. I had discussed with my DM that I wanted my “proficiency in one tool set” from my background to be thieves’ tools, which my cat character (Bootsy) would use his claws to disarm traps and pick locks.
There were all kinds of +1 weapons and arcane foci, potions of healing, etc. Then there were two locked cabinets. We were unsupervised, and instructed we could take whatever we needed for our upcoming quest.
Thieves’ Tools to open one cabinet. Fail. Thieves’ tools to open another cabinet. Fail. Bootsy gets frustrated and starts alternating Fire Bolt and Frostbite cantrips on the lock, finishing with an Eldritch Blast.
With a loud crash, the second cabinet opens. Inside are a Dragon Slayer Longsword and a deck of cards. The Shadow Elf Shadow Monk (Shai) grabs both and casts invisibility (which he gets once per day at will). Bootsy casts invisibility on himself and the remaining party member.
Stealth check. ... ... 31. It was like a natural 18. We got off **scott free**. And it all started with a failed check with thieves’ tools.
Specs for Bootsy (now level 9):
Dreamlands Cat - Terran
Sorcerer 7: Runechild (Tal’Dorei Campaign Guide), feat (level 4 benchmark): Telekinetic
Warlock 1: Celestial // benefit: extra level 1 slots (Pact Magic and Spellcasting slots are counted separately but Warlock or Sorcerer spells may be cast using either, so the effect is 2 extra level 1 spell slots), same casting mod, 4 extra cantrips, 2 extra prepared spells, access to Cure Wounds and warlock spells
Monk 1: no subclass at this level // benefit: upgrades my unarmed strikes from 1 (bite) and 2 (claws) to 1d4 and 2d4 respectively (cats can’t wield most weapons effectively), Unarmored Defense since I don’t have proficiency with any armor.
STR 8
DEX 19
CON 15
INT 12
WIS 15
CHA 20
maxHP 70; AC 16
Skills: Acrobatics +8, Arcana +5, Deception +9, Insight +6, Investigation +5, Perception +6, Sleight of Hand +8, Stealth +8. It seems like a lot of skills for a caster, but I got two automatically from the species build in Cthulhu Mythos.
I really enjoy this character.
More about Bootsy:
Languages: understands most commonly spoken languages, but only speaks Cat. Understanding Cat as a humanoid requires 1 week spent with a cat, and only works for that individual. Bootsy works around this by using prestidigitation to cause color changes in the pattern of words, but he doesn’t need to communicate often.
Size: tiny
Walking speed: 30
Climbing speed: 40
In many games, the burden of failing a roll may feel like a failing of the character because character scores influence the outcome of the roll - they are mechanically linked. Though they should be treated very differently from a narrative perspective, a Wisdom check during a tense dungeon infiltration and a Wisdom save against madness are mechanically similar.
Man y’all keep hitting it out of the park!! My favorite fail forward system if the “glitch” mechanic in SHADOWRUN. Thanks for all your amazing stuff!!
Thanks for the kind words!
Rogue fails lockpick check; goblin opens door from other side
Voice from behind locked door: "What was that noise?"
DM: "Everyone roll Stealth."
“Jim can I be a dragon in our next campaign” -Pruitt aftercredits
True story, I’m playing a dragon right now in a 5E game. Look up the Demi-Dragon homebrew on r/unearthedarcana . It’s a fairly well designed character class, been through dozens of revisions
Lots of solid back and forth on this episode. Love the constructive topics today guys!
Scribble thoughts [raw]: Anytime a thing needs to happen for the story to survive. It happens. No rolls. Exceptions? yeah: plot armour.
One of my personal favorites in my RPGing career was a game of FASA Star Trek RPG. Basically: The klingon warship decloaked. The captain told the commofficer to make communication. The comm officer rolled a diplomacy check to say 'hello'...and totally pooched it. So the captain is like I'll do it rolls diplomacy and totally pooches it. So the first officer literally knocks the captain out of the way rolls diplomacy and totally pooches it. With such disrespect the ENTIRE crew of the klingon ship swoar a blood oath against the families of all crew members on board and attacked with aboslute everything. Lo and behold it turned out the best place for the characters to try and hide was inside a nebula...where powerful aliens had set up an ancient artifact to destroy klingon ships in the area.
Every roll matters
On a failed roll, the gm can choose to:
Succeed with a twist
Or
Failure but the story progresses
Failed the investigation to find that vital clue? Succeed with a twist means that the players still succeed but at a cost. They still find the clue, but not under great circumstances, they find some thugs trying to cover up evidence so now they gotta fight for it.
Every roll should matter.
When the rogue fails to lock pick the door, the barbarian should not immediately step in to try to break the door instead.
Allow the gm to tell the result of the roll first before taking further action.
This is me writing verbatim the rules from Open Legend RPG chapter 2: actions & attributes.
I assume that's what "fail forward" means, and this is a great way to fail forward.
So I’ve only done one session of DnD ever so far, and the failure actually ended up being the funnest part.
I’m doing Tales of Yawning portal with a monk, an artificer and me (barbarian). Barbarian gets bored and bashes down a door that scares Meepo the kobold. I try apologizing to Meepo and get a nat 1, so he’s freaked out. Monk tries talking to him too and gets more freaked out and runs away. Other kobolds attack, one crits me to super-low health so just so I don’t die I rage and murder one pretty hard.
Artificer, who was quiet the whole time, gets so angry at my barbarian character once we’re at a space place, and is surprisingly cutting. It was a great roleplay scene, and trying to figure out how to deal with the other kobolds waiting for us behind a barricade we made has me super excited to play again and figure out how we’re gonna deal with it.
Hands down the most important part of this video is thinking- how can the setting and the NPCs react to your character. To go with the door example, you are deftly going to work on the hardest lock you have ever seen (despite the nat 1) but then X happens or Y happens. Hell if they play it well you can reward the failure too! Maybe that bad guy has an important letter on them.
So important!!
That Pruitt beardgame.
to me DM in is about series of question about the situation and keeping track of the narrative sense.
Here's a "fail forward" example: The master pickpocket Rogue prepares to steal an important key from the Duke during a fancy party. They roll a 1. Did the Rogue get caught with their hand in the Duke's pocket, something liable to get them jailed? Of course not! The Rogue, with their decades of pickpocketing experience, got close and determined that there were just too many bodyguards and the Duke is too alert. It wasn't going to be possible for them to steal it at that time, and they're skilled enough to know that, so they didn't try.
But the party still needs that key, so they make a new plan. The Fighter and Cleric get in a loud argument that leads to a minor fistfight between them. They roll decent Bluff checks. The guards are fooled and pull them apart to get things calmed down, while the Duke watches, either concerned or amused. Rogue returns, steals the key using the now-provided opening, plot continues.
One way to think of it is the imagine what ludic purpose failure has in your game. I would argue the best thing about failure is its ability to fight dominant strategies that kill variety.
I'm trying to learn how to fail forward due to the Doctor Who RPG. The "Yes, but...." and the "No and...." are something I'm not used to. Most games don't have this.
You guys inspired me to make a failure fiend. Lives in the ethieral plane when ever the dice rolls a 1 or 2 it summons the failure feind to appear for just 6 seconds to intrupt my players and dissapear.
Another idea: one of the PCs has a cursed hand. Every time someone in the party rolls a 1, it's the hand briefly acting on its own to sabotage the character. Even if it's someone else, the hand can be tricky. Or maybe the hand knows magic, even if the character doesn't (although a Warlock that got a cursed hand as part of their pact would be flavorful as hell). One can be awfully disruptive with just cantrips like Minor Illusion, Thaumaturgy, Prestidigitation, etc.
i do locks like this: (DC20-roll = time x locklvl)
roll a 5 on a lvl4 lock? 15x4 is one hour to unlock. Count it against adventuring time til a rest is needed. I find players enjoy the pressure of the clock. Make passing of time have real consequence!
Havent watched you for a while but i LOVE this beared! This grey is so fking stylish!
@14:00 genius comment into brilliant example
You guys should really do an episode on these clocks!
Failure can also be super good if the task you’re trying to accomplish benefits someone secretly undermining you, and you end up accidentally thwarting them through incompetence. Great comical trope.
This is very Cypher focused, based on the mechanics of having the players make rolls to defend rather than the DM rolling for enemies to attack, but could be used in D&D too - I've been trying to make a point of establish an active challenge or threat that the players are reacting to and using rolls to attempt to solve. Asking for rolls at the point of highest tension/danger in the middle of the action, rather than waiting for players to tell me what they are doing to initiate an action at the lowest points of danger/tension. This bakes-in obvious consequences for if the roll fails.
Like, "The brigand throws a molotov cocktail at you. It is hurtling towards the open window of the saloon. What do you do?" Or, "You're being drug across the dusty ground as you cling desperately to the bumper of the Nazi truck. How are you going to try to get out of this?"
I've been looking at the Star Trek Adventures RPG recently and they have a nice way of dealing with this topic. It would probably need some slight adjustment to make work in other RPGs but it is definitely this exact thing.
I believe it is called "success with complication" complications. Basically it is succeeding because you NEED at least some of what you would have gotten from succeeding to move forward something bad is likely to have occurred, or may occur later!
Yes! The modiphus games do interesting things with failure!
Great stuff as always
Pruit resprecting the Hootsforce
Hey WebDM folks - which video did Pruitt talk about his Firbolg/Minotaur Cleric/Warlock/servant of the Great Bull?
We're looking back and we'll let you know!
It was a recent one. Character Concepts: Mages we think
LOVE YOUR CHANNEL!!!!!
Thank you for your enthusiasm, Jon!
Seduce the dragon at your own risk, bards! I’m a fail forward DM now 🤣
I disappear for a couple of years and now they exchanged beards?!?!?!
Check back on their videos on Player/DM Engagement, that's where they made it official.
This is an excellent, thoughtful video.
Thank you so much!
Gonna need this video after the first session I ran
Nice shirts boys. The hoots is strong.
Hazard dice? Has thar been covered in any of your videos? Sounds interesting!
My biggest trouble as a player is being okay with failing in combat. I don't mind failing environmental and dialogue rolls, but it's when I'm swinging as a paladin and miss like every attack I just don't know how to RP that.
We recently got a critical fail when the group's artificer tried to leave a spooky message on the doorway of a mine. He's playing this dorky little aspiring adventurer that looks up to my Paladin and the DM ruled that he left his spooky message but the recording kept going when he asked "Mr. Paladin, did I do good?!" in his squeaky gnome voice and we lost it. Sometimes fails make the best story.
That's adorable
As for how to rp continual failure, there are choices! How might you explain this whiffs in the fiction? Is your character distracted? Is their heart really in the fight? Are they getting mad? Will they switch to a different action than usual in the face of failure? Are they focused on protecting someone? If the dice aren't working for you, it's a good opportunity to do things you might not otherwise, like perhaps ready an action, defend, use a potion that's been sitting around, etc
I love this topic, I had to use myself as I almost had a TPK in the arctic because the player had nothing but beer to drink.
~ ~ ~
@WebDM A show of vehicles and mounts? I think there are somewhat overlooked topic despite how important they can be.
Thanks for the request! Here is our show on mounted combat ua-cam.com/video/NnZz8dVv_ak/v-deo.html
Haven't converted vehicles yet!
Flying is falling towards the ground and missing
While I generally agree with the sentiment.. sometimes failing miserably and sucking can be fun. Should not happen all the time of course. It's a good balancer for the superhero antics to sometimes to land on your face in mud
I've been frustrated by my players giving up too quicky, losing interest and going somewhere else. They show up for each session and seem to enjoy playing, but their resiliency in the face of an obstacle is weak. I've been stingy with XP and loot when they retreat and settle for the easy/simple tasks.
Can anyone tell me where to get a DM screen that's a literal castle like they use in the bottom left of these videos? I can't find anything remotely decent online.
Dwarven Forge!! Look up their castle builder. Not a traditional dm screen but it's super awesome
This is their Dungeon World video.
Glory Hammer T shirt? That gets you an instant like and subscribe from me.
Welcome!
@@WebDM I got that same T-Shirt at their "Unicorn Invasion of Europe" Tour. Zargothrax Rules!
So failing forward is bribery? Shit i never knew that!
*Fail Forward Fantastically For Fun Friends Forever .*
Loving the Gloryhammer shirt
Thanks.
How would one fail forward with a failed Perception check?
1) be sure you can accept failure to perceive before asking for a roll - if you can't, just give them the info with no roll 2) they failed and don't get the info. Hopefully the dm didn't bottleneck the adventure by gating it behind a check that could fail 3) revealing a hidden danger, increasing the pressure, or putting a PC in danger are all good ways to keep the game going. The point of failing better isn't to alleviate the sting of failure but to keep failure from stalling out the game. If the player was looking for something specific, the dm can always offer up an alternative way to find it out at a higher cost
--Jim
what about failing diagonally?
Difficult but not impossible!
20:00 but what is a modern con artist/panhandler if not someone continually trying the same ploy that their car is out of gas just up the road, and they're just in from out of town, and their family is stuck in the hotel just over there? 😏
"we go a lot longer".....that's what she said....
hindsight is 2d20dl1
Bribing the dm I see . It does seem a sold plan
If you don't have dwarven electrum, we hear pizza and beer often work well
I love coming home to solid content. I've been interested in this topic for awhile because flat failure often puts an end to the flow of the game and I want to change that for my games
Welcome home!
A helpful option will always be to play a game that actually has good success/failure + mechanics instead of pretending like those mechanics exist in a game like d&d.
GLORYHAMMER!!!!
not achieving a DC doesn't equate to failure. I use the rule of nat 1 and nat 20. meaning, a nat 1 means something undesirable happens and a nat 20 means something good happens. I never inform the player(s) the target DC or AC or HP. the unknown is part of the mystique of the game. its my job to move the story forward, it's the players job to slow the progress of play. any task that has a target number, gets only 1 die roll. from the result, it's my job to describe the scene. this is basic game play.
'meet the Robinsons movie': keep moving forward
Lol, electrum
I clicked because this said “fail forward” and it piqued my interest heheheh
Thanks for watching!
aweeeeeeeee yea Gloryhammer!
While yes I agree on not describing a competent PC being idiot. there is just something bad about blaming the world on the die roll. like oh no you did it but the door fell of and now every one knows. ... it makes someone else be the blame. I dunno.
great topic!
1. if there is no gradient of success and failure, then just throw away dice and play cowboys and Indians with a yes or no referee.
2. make all non-combat rolls pass, but the outcome buffs or debuffs the next encounter. Exhaustion and inspiration, passing of time til forced march checks... buy enemies time to set an ambush or gather re-enforcements.
3. Don't be afraid to narrate these consequences as well. If it isn't a plot point, you don't have to be so secret over the consequences of a locked door or a bad prayer. Share the narrative.
"fail better" is usually used out of context. The original poem is fairly miserable now.
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First
Just missed it, guess I'll just have to... _Fail Forwad_ B-)
Faster than us even, dang!