Tips From Older Editions of Dungeons & Dragons - Web DM
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 лис 2019
- What can we learn from previous editions of D&D? From Chainmail to THAC0 and beyond, we talk what tidbits to keep & what to throw out!
Download our FREE Podcast with LUKE GYGAX: / 29836080
Thanks for watching! Don't forget to subscribe, comment & share. New episodes every Wednesday.
Web DM Podcast, Discounts, Show Audio- bit.ly/2g49sUV
Check us out on Facebook - bit.ly/2oGKLOg
Twitter - / webdmshow
Instagram - web_dm
Want more? Check out:
Our Player Race playlist: • Bird People! Aarakocra...
Our DM Inspiration List: • Cosmic Conflicts: Worl...
MONSTERS! • Vampires, Ravenloft an...
Our PC Class Playlist: • Warlocks: Classes in 5...
Written & Hosted by Jonathan Pruitt & Jim Davis
Produced, Directed & Edited by Travis Boles
Complete 5e Classes Playlist: bit.ly/2oGuhG1
New to 5th Edition D&D? Check out this playlist - bit.ly/2pbZN1K
Castle by Dwarven Forge bit.ly/2MwH0Ld
Music by John Branch -branchoutguitar.com
Web DM Theme by
Kyle Newmaster - kylenewmaster.com
Motion Graphics & Logo Design by
Ryan Wieber - ryan-w.com
WebDM Fan Art by Adam Miller - www.adammillerart.net
Table by Forest and Hammer www.forestandhammer.com
5e Dungeons & Dragons is here to stay, and Web DM is here to help!!! Jim Davis & Jonathan Pruitt have been playing Dungeons & Dragons for a combined 30+ years, and on Web DM they demystify, dethrone, and defrock this Dungeon we call Dragons! Subscribe to our channel for weekly videos on 5e Classes, Monsters, DM Tips, and more! Join Pruitt & Jim as we kick down the door and talk some serious Dungeons & Dragons! - Ігри
That intro was absolutely phenomenal
Could not agree more.
@Joe Blow Not sure what this means. Please elaborate.
*wisper* "tid-bits"
Hello Tim and eric
I've already seen this video ... And it still cracked my cats.
Cat ... Catalytic converter ... Sorry, I shouldn't make automotive jokes.
Dnd during satanic panic: this game isn't about summoning demons.
Dnd 5e: here is a whole UA for demon summoning.
That was my first thought as well
It got going after the Dungeon Master's Guide came out in 1980 if I recall. See pic from ebay.
www.ebay.com/p/5080104?iid=183746997548&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=183746997548&targetid=593772085613&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9032862&poi=&campaignid=2086087905&mkgroupid=76935344123&rlsatarget=pla-593772085613&abcId=1141016&merchantid=6296724&gclid=CjwKCAiA8K7uBRBBEiwACOm4dyCrosCntlY0sB7rMhVEEaamZwgFOKqOOc_GM9t3E1PESFdAYOv_lhoCJ3MQAvD_BwE
We all had to sit through some tedious lectures by ignorant parents.
It got even tougher after the D&D student/player committed suicide in his university basement.
D&D was also a form of birth control back in the day.
It was rough being a D&D player back then. lol
I mean you could still summon demons or devils. We just called them Baatezu and Tanar'i and there is definitely a part of me that still finds those names much more evocative.
3.5 player- Wait, there's more than one unearthed arcana?
@@inthewastes in 5th Edition Unearth Arcana is not a book but a series of PDFs of additional classes and other materials that are GM optionals to include in their game, as I understand it.
My brain exploded when they started discussing dungeon crawl and wilderness procedures! I'd love a full video just on those.
100% agree
They're by far my favorite thing I discovered when I tried out earlier editions, I wouldn't run a D&D session in any edition without them now.
Yes I totally agree
All of it was completely new to me. I need more info on that.
@@dziooooo I just tried it out and it worked so well, everyone got a turn and a chance to act. I'm gonna use it going forward, definetely.
Also, your adventure sounds dope. Good luck with it.
Congrats. You guys have officially made “Tidbits” a thing.
Love the Tidbits
I was strangely aroused. rofl!!
That opening was gold. It wasn't haha funny but boy did it leave a smile on my face.
@@squattingheads no. Tidbits. It's a phrase we've been using for years.
@@AJBernard and in the UK it is still spelled titbits. Old timey Americans started saying tidbits because of good old fashioned prudishness. Heaven forbid they say the word 'tit', they might set aflame with embarrassment
I wasn't aware when i started this video that Pruitt was giving away tickets to the gun show!
WHAT A CHAD
Dat tricep
That's his dice rolling arm
I find this comment funny because I've seen a variation of it for every one of these videos for the past few months...
He is a level 2 monk.
I am always impressed that Jonathan Pruitt can list of the name of every character he has ever played
Right!
Remy B Lots of characters that were in games that were cut short to there not being a big pool of reliable games. Also being younger at the time.
From the top of my head in Order and not counting one-shots:
Keldath Wyntherwolff (Fighter/Cleric on Krynn; D&D 3.5)
Cedric the Bard (Brujah from Edinburgh; Vampire - the Masquerade)
James Potter (british Spy; Contact)
Enrico Battista Montini (Aasimar Cleric of Tymora in the Forgotten Realms; D&D 3.5)
Teron Ad'Las (Bothan Scoundrel; Star Wars D6)
Grom'Gol (Obsidiman Warrior from Barsaive; Earthdawn)
Faustrecht (Troll Adept from Halle-Leipzig-Sprawl; Shadowrun)
Rubi Rodds (Vampire Groupie from Manhatten - Kansas; Buffy - the Vampire Slayer)
Sound Blast (Aero-Kinetic from Sao Paulo; Wearing the Cape)
Algamemnon (big Demon; Fight)
@Remy B I've played in a couple dozen 1 shots of random games where I never got attached to my character sheet.
Peter of the North ha ha ha
First time I opened the 5th Edition DMG I exclaimed to my group "Hey! They brought back the Random Dungeon Smells Table!"
Around the table the young ones looked confused, and the old ones reached for the book saying "Let me see!"
@@Braincain007 yeah, it's in the chapter about making dungeons. There's traps, minor tricks, random smells, random sounds, etc...
@@zephyrstrife4668 I don't own the 5E DMG. Is the random prostitute table back?
@@babycherie5874 no. Definitely no
@@Darknight4434 looks like I'm sticking with 1st edition, unless they resolve this in 6th ed.
@@babycherie5874 I think they will keep on ignoring that table in specific
The best edition of d&d is the one that gets the job done.
So....all of them?
Video games it is then. Unless your computer crashes halfway through, but tabletop aren't immune to hazards either, like a player having a stroke or something.
@@davecam4863 or none of them if you feel it didn't do what you wanted.
@@SPTX. While all versions and spin offs are buggy, they are still fun, and do get the job done!
Vivec, as for getting the job done, There is a pretty broad spectrum there. Little John, RIP, made swords and armor. His swords were tough, heavy, severely unbalanced and unwieldy. They were brutish weapons, built more for orcs than men. Yes, IRL.
Kirby D. Wise on the other hand makes wonderfully weighted and balanced weapons. He stopped making armor a long time ago. His weapons are graceful and tough. They are made for men, not brutes. Men who are discerning and require excellence. Yes, IRL.
So while Little John"s weapons got the job done, they would leave you exhausted and unhappy. Kirby's get the job done and let you fight all day.
Just because something "gets the job done" doesn't necessarily mean it does so adequately, elegantly or practically. ;)
Universal RPGs just don’t cut it when there exist multitudes of games that do very specific things and concentrate on only the pertinent mechanics. West End Games d6 Star Wars is still the best way to play Star Wars.
I didn’t realize how much I missed the two of you chatting. Great video
I'm a sweet baby who just got started with 5e, but I've also gotten into 3.5 lately. Mostly I'm just a big fan of the "hot mess of 500 different modifiers and effects added onto a thing" energy it's got going for it.
If you're like me, you'll fall in and out of love with that aspect of 3.5 (and Pathfinder) in cycles. Although as a DM, I get tired of it faster than players do, since most BBEGs of any worth are going to be high-level casters or have them on call.
Try a bit of AD&D 2E.
See what you think of that.
Pruitt’s arms have their own initiative
Thaco is a joke now. However, when 2nd came out it was an innovation. Prior to that, you had to go to a chart to see if you hit. It really sped up the game. Also 2nd was the only edition where you could use the previous editions books. While not perfect, 2nd was great.
Looking back on it now, 2ed was pretty dang awesome. The rules even had a flavor that harkened back to things like old Ralph Bakshi cartoons.
@@whiterabbit75 Hell, I sometimes run games using 2e AD&D to this day and they're always fun and memorable. Requires slightly different player expectations going in but it's aged surprisingly well, and a lot of my favorite classic D&D computer games are based on it. (Baldur's Gate, the Goldbox games, etc.)
THAC0 was a joke back then. It had existed in 1e and no one wanted it or used it, and we were shocked as hell when it was brought to the forefront in 2e. Using charts was really very simple since you as a player were only using one, and as a DM it took almost no time to learn them and rarely ever have to reference them. There was no need for THAC0 at all.
2e, especially the cash grab that it became, really hurt the hobby and drove a lot of people out. It was not a real improvement over 1e, cost a ton of money to keep current with, and really offered very little. Most of us just mined it for ideas and left it alone otherwise. Had there not been 1e and the various D&D editions, 2e would have been the best RPG on the market. As it was, it was the third best behind 1e and D&D.
@@georgewilson2575 , I'm not sure what you're talking about. THAC0 was a 2nd edition development. 1E had the charts. THAC0 really speed up the game. You could actually run a combat without the screen or the DMG. 2E is by far the most influential edition. So much of 5E borrows from 2E and a little 1E. 3rd, 4th, and especially D&D are mostly ignored.
2E may of had the splat books, but it also brought Planescape, Dark Sun, the Ravenloft setting, the blood war and so much more.
You are right, WotC leaned heavily on 2e for their ideas, but 2e was inferior to 1e and it led to WotC taking D&D further from its roots towards the medieval superhero video game style RPG that is 5e. The WotC editions are all inferior in my opinion, but that is a discussion for a different thread.
THAC0 lurks in Appendix E of your 1e DMG, where the THAC0 is given for every monster. It was something that was there, I suppose it could have been used, but no one I knew thought it was an improvement over the charts for the monsters and we didn't use it, much less take the couple of minutes it would have taken to make a THAC0 chart for the character classes. It was a wholly unnecessary feature.
THAC0, 18/00 STR, percentage thief skills, old school backstab, bards being worthless, forgetting my f•cking spells after one use... ahh, the memories.
I really like Pruitt's "language" metaphor for learning D&D. I speak Old School and therefore have advantage when rolling to understand modern systems.
Great vid, guys!
This opening is amazing 😂😂
Back in my day we rolled initiative on a D6!!
Leivve Professor Dungeon Master on Dungeoncraft says you don’t need to roll initiative at all.
Back in my day we rolled saves with 2D10... PERCENTILE!!!!!
Back in my day weapons had speed factor. Large weapons had high SF which put your turn later.
I miss the 2E d10 for initiative. It felt more special to have a dedicated die for such an important roll than using the same d20 like for everything else.
@@nanoninja2084 Don't forget the weapon adjustment for armor type!
I basically never comment, but I just have to say that this was maybe one of the best youtube intros I have ever seen. Love you guys!
This intro lives rent-free in my head.
The OSR is the best thing to happen to my RPG life. I started with 5e after no RPG experience and simply had no idea about the old stuff.
B/X is great, as are the derivatives/reductions (such as Into the Odd and Knave). I've also become smitten with other non-D&D fantasy adventure adjacents, such as Troika! and Maze Rats.
5e still nails heroic, options-forward fantasy better than these older games, but the classic "you're a nobody, go solve problems, explore vistas, and make emergent narrative to get rich" model really shines in the OSR-esque games. Keep me low-power and strapped for creativity.
Ben Milton's Questing Beast YT channel is a great place to find out more. Look for his Combat as War, XP for Gold, and What is the OSR? videos.
Five torches deep is a fifth edition OSR that's worth a look. Then again, you want any modules, easier to just use older systems. But it's pretty clean (clear, concise etc).
The huge breakthrough of 3rd edition for me was the number of weird, long-standing questions it specifically addressed and resolved. Exceptional vs. supernatural abilities, natural vs. worn armor, defined item locations, item creation feats and rules - all the stuff that made things predictable and organized, which also unfortunately led to the epic minmaxing that made it kind of depressing at high levels. The key to good D&D for me is leveraging all that stuff situationally as necessary, but not letting it dominate every decision about your world and character.
Ive played constantly for the last 41 years and only use 1st and 2nd edition. Ive even created my own charts so as players can virtually rise to 100th level if they survive that long. I still collect old dragon mags and try to get my hands on any modules i can find! My collections pretty damn big and probably valued at roughly 5000 to 6000 bucks. Ive even got the old Deities and Demigods that was pulled out of circulation due to copyright infringement that has the Cthulu and Melnibonian Mythos in them! 😁
I like the AD&D2e chart for " Weapon type vs Armor"
Player: Awesome my 6th-level fighter now has a suite of Full Plate Armor !
Then see a Shield Wall of Roman legionairs in band armor with large shield
AC: 0 and they have their throwing spears point at him.
I still have the 1st edition DMG along with the monster manual, players handbook and a couple other books.
You ever had a desire to collect 3.0/3.5?
I played 2nd ed. from '89/90 to 2008-ish, when I started looking into 3rd ed.
I never bothered with 4E because my mix of 2nd and 3rd was all I needed.
5E pisses me off how bad it is, and I refuse to play it.
@@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself 5th ed is bad, but what is it about it that you dislike compared to earlier eds?
Great vid as always guys. I've played d&d for 25 yrs+. The adversarial DM vs. Players was fun in the early editions. The campaign settings introduced in 2nd were great. Since I'm a self indulgent bastard 3rd was my fav, I love building characters. I own a lot on minis, old school pewter and plastic pre-painted, so 4th gave us a chance to put them all to use. Playing 5th now online on roll20 with friends I've played with for over a decade. Ever iteration had it's own charm. We still include "Skill Challenges" from 4th for a little flavour to out of combat encounters. Thanks for the ideas. Keep the great content coming guys.
"peter of the north" oh god damn it
LMAO I had to rewind and make sure I heard that right.
"Peter of the North" and his legendary guiding bolts
@@inqui5ition definitely had Enlarge/Reduce on his list.
He was raising wyverns in a cave in BG 1, IIRC.
His legendary weapon is the Pork Sword?
He was a Lord of Rodly Might
2 years later, still my favorite intro ever. LOVE IT!!
Third Edition D&D also ushered in a huge wave of third-party d20 products for 3e (from late 2000 to early 2008) that you can borrow ideas from. There were a countless number of adventure modules, campaign settings, magic items, monsters, races, classes, feats, spells, and weapons.
Plus over 30 years’ worth of Dragon Magazines articles for First through Third Editions of the game, too.
My favorite old modules are Master of the Desert Nomads, Temple of Death, Beyond the Crystal Cave, The Sentinel, The Gauntlet, The Secret of Bone Hill, and The Assassins Knot. My favorite setting is Jakandor. One problem with AD&D was that even after playing for years, people would ask "do i want to roll high or low on this roll?". The Book of Nine Swords was major proof that they were working on a new edition.
That little chuckle in the background at the end of the intro is the best part.
Thank you, Jim! I've long held the same stance about the bad analogy of D&D rules = to technology. Just because there are new editions does NOT mean that the old rules are obsolete!
“I won Dungeons & Dragons, and it was ADVANCED!”
Today I learned that D&D is Spanish and Pathfinder is Portuguese.
+
4th Edition is Esperanto: an invented language (as opposed to the more organic process of linguistic evolution) that streamlined and eschewed a lot of historical quirks in favor of strong internal consistency. It has a small dedicated fan base that swears by its merits, but popularly it is considered weird, bland, and a curious mistake of history.
@@timhaldane7588 soooooooo accurate!
Facts
I guess I'm more of a Latin guy then.
This is why I love Call of Cthulhu. All the past published campaigns and materials are usable in the current edition.
Alexander Chippel not with the d20 system, I think. But first to sixth edition? For sure
@@ecptz2002 7th doesn't use a d20.
Alexander Chippel thank you for the correction. The d20 version of the game was issued Wizards, not Chaosium. I stand corrected
I've noticed Jim's been an OSR fan for a while now, glad they got to talk about some of its good mechanics! Encounter reactions and dungeon turns are some of my favorite tools to make a session come alive.
2nd is my favorite... and I’ve been playing since 1976... but my new group is 5e, so that’s what I run now
@Joe Blow Played 2e for a long time. Just got back into it and looked a 5e. You hit the nail on the head.
I went from 3.5 to 5th ed. As a dm I feel I lost of options. Everything is simplified. But worst of all - a lot of power has move from equipment into feats and other character abilities. And abilities cannot be controller by the dm. To me I lost diversity and options for adventure. I won a brunch of superhero party members that can do way too much damage for their own good.
The first thing I always draw from old rules is 3e's idea that a class doesn't need to be unique to the players. Whenever I'm dissatisfied with a creature or NPC, I feel free to start looting the classes for their powers.
This Black Knight seems tedious? Now He has spells and Smite.
This demon assassin is an HP bag that my players will burn through in a round? Now it Sneak Attacks too.
Always a goodie! There are guidelines for this on p283 of the DMG.
My dragons all have wizard and sorcerer levels because fuck you.
Also you know they would
Me and my friends started our first campaign a few months ago. Since it was the edition I had we did 2e, and I’ve found it really fun.
That 2d6 mechanic he mentioned for reactions and stuff is genius.
Far and away my favorite intro ever. Also what a fantastic topic!! I love taking things from older editions and bringing them into 5th. I think one of the best things about 5th is how resilient it is to being manipulated. Bending without breaking.
2nd ed ad&d is where I got my start in 93 and I loved it. I also loved the splat books.
I also have no experience with 3rd, 3.5 or 4th. Jumped straight to 5th about a yr and a half ago.
I've never enjoyed running dungeons, because I always felt like I'm describing things too well or too little / incorrectly. Hearing this? Yeah, this makes a whole lot more sense! Been playing 5e and watching all the popular videos, read lots of articles, played with different GMs & players... Never heard of this procedural play described like this, it makes SO much sense, holy hell I gotta try it!
It is suprising how such a simple set of rules can make dungeon crawling so much more fun for me to run. I started running it oldschool a couple months ago and haven't looked back
I had the wonderful luck to get to have a TSR game designer as part of my every weekend gaming group. Gary Spiegel. He was a truly wonderful person to game with.
He ran Companion D&D, which is the high level expansion brought out in 84. We would all start our characters at level 15 and we had years of fun playing in those upper level games. Tough games, i might add.
We also all played with what was probably the longest running game in the state of Alabama. Begun from the three book set in, I think 1975, it ran every weekend (pretty much) till about 98.
Now at the same time my friends (guys my age) and I were also running AD&D first edition. Now that is my game. I loved the system, and to me it put the play on the table and not in the books. The DM had the tables, he gave you a number and that was all you needed. Only the mage needed a book. Some of my best gaming memories are AD&D 1st games.
Sure, we would play 2nd, and 3rd, and 3.5 in the later years as a gaming group. We played just about everything game wise that came out back then. We never got to 4th edition. Marriage, divorce, jobs, death, and people moving out of town finally ended those old gaming weekends.
I'm looking to start a 5th edition game soon. Maybe gather up a few old friends.
Larry Elmore made me love D&D.
I was more of a Jeff Easley guy, but Larry’s Dragonlance art really brought those characters to life.
Anyone else get the feeling that Jim would pick you up from your house, get wined and dined and brought home safe and sound with his stunning wink...
I can dream about it....
I've played Original D&D, and it was interesting, and certainly became more interesting the longer we played it. I don't think I would play it again. Maybe for some sort of extra deadly "hardcore" "survivalist" game.
My Dad's favorite version of D&D is Basic and Expert, so I've played a lot of that, and I love it too. It finds a great balance between simplicity and interesting mechanics. Labyrinth Lord Basic is essentially the same ruleset, so pick that up if you'd like to try it out.
I find 1E very clunking and unwieldy.
I've only played 2E a few times, but every time was a really good and interesting one-shot run by one of the people who wrote 2E, and I don't think I can form an opinion on it independent of those games. That said, 2E, to me, feels like a good melding of 3E and the more classic D&D rules.
I've played tons of both 3.5 and 5E, I love them both, and I actually think they're a lot more similar than different. To me, they feel like two different approaches to achieving the same style of game, which isn't true for the other editions. I think I prefer the rules-heavy 3.5 more, but I'm a mechanics guy.
I haven't played 4E. I was unimpressed the one time I flipped through the book, although Warlord did look interesting.
EDIT: It's important to note I haven't GM'd any of these versions except BX
B/X is a ton of fun. The definition of what I always thought "D&D" really meant.
@KindredofLegousa Fair! Frankly, I don't see class balance as a perk. It's a hindrance to creative play, IMO. But that's apples and oranges. Old school D&D and 3e-onward are operating on fundamentally different design theses.
I love THAC0.
I always used THAC0 and "modified/real THAC0" for each weapon on character sheets.
THAC0: 18
Real THAC0: 15
With a weapon specialization and exceptional strength.
yes! I've been waiting for this episode! Do more OSR related videos pleaaaase!
Im very much in the minority of my group. I love random encounters and stuff like that. Weather changes that slow or stop travel times all that good stuff.... But im the only one, one friend claims "it slows down the story/game to much" another thinks they are just pointless fights with no real gain amd my GM just thinks they are to much to keep up with..... But i feel like not having them makes the world feel empty. There are no bandits there are no traveling merchants theres nothing between towns amd villages the only "lost ruins" are the one my GM has already decided thats where the BBEG is hiding :(
Take the helm, Andrew -- start up your own campaign where the things you feel are worthwhile, exist! Show your players, and your DM, how it can be handled, how much fun it really can be. I was forced to take over DM'ing, six months into my gaming career -- love DM'iung! I started playing D&D back in 1980... I'm an avid sandbox DM, running more improvisational games, than pre-arranged, pre-configured sessions. I, and my my players, love it! Take the helm, and show them what it can be like... Get a copy of XDM X-treme Dungeon Mastery book (www.amazon.com/X-Treme-Dungeon-Mastery-Tracy-Hickman/dp/0977907465/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=X-treme+Dungeon+Mastery%5C&qid=1577212335&sr=8-1), too -- it will help you incredibly! Cheers!
jumping to "the good parts" is what one gets from movies based on a book. that random encounter is a seed..everything in a game is a seed. "lets cut past your character's arc so we can get to the important stuff" would be an interesting reply to players who dont want to deal with what they perceive as unimportant.
In my campaign, we had a whole travel section where I figured out the weather, sunrise and sunset, phases of the moon etc for each day. Sometimes a thick fog would come up, or a big storm and the party needed to stop, or slow down. I had a huge table of random events that could occur every day. Really produced a bunch of cool adventures that I could never have written on my own.
Come join our game. Nice name btw.
I do not find myself missing THACO. Thank you very much.
Great advice, I only started DMing on 5e and I remember 3.5 dungeon and hex crawling felt a more organic and trackable. I didn't find any mechanic rules on the 3.5 DMG to help me with what I believed 5e was missing . Now I understand that my 3.5 DMs were just using older AD&D crawl mechanics and tables.
An amazing discussion. I got started with the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, way back in 1994, and this video made me remember some things that actually worked very well in the days before 3.x. So, thanks, you guys. You've done it again.
I love to pick through old modules and other books, finding material I can pluck out. 5e is definitely my edition of choice - it has exactly as much granularity as I want from an RPG - but older books (or books from other publishers) can be useful for inspiration or alternate takes. One of my favorite sources of inspiration are old issues of DRAGON and DUNGEON magazines, where they had articles and fan-submitted modules, respectively.
Same I love pulling stuff from 2nd 3rd and 4th manuals. Especially creatures abilities and items. Plus they have great lore and world building stuff.
You could probably go through rule books for other games too, though they would certainly be much harder to bring over.
I remember being so excited when someone would allow me to read through the latest Dungeon Magazine. There was so much in each volume to get the imagination flowing!
Yeah I'm guilty of getting into older modules and converting them. They had a amazing amountnof them in third edition I'd love them to reprint/update as finding them for me (Australian here) is very very difficult.
Hello THAC0 my old friend... I've come to roll with you again... Because a vision of a past edition.... got me thinking and reminiscing... and longing.. for a time where you needed math... and armor class... now hear the sound.... of tidbits..
An experienced person explaining how the F to run a dungeon crawl was perhaps the most helpful piece of DMing advice I have seen on UA-cam in the past several years. I tried counting out 6 second rounds as if the dungeon was one huge combat encounter. Not a fun or effective way to do it. But no book had really taught me how to do or *not* do a dungeon crawl. Thanks guys!
It's about time somebody gave Basic D&D and 1st Edition AD&D some love. You kids are welcome on my lawn. :-)
that intro had me rolling to Save Vs. Tidbits
Really loved this one, from someone who started with the D&D Cyclopedia (BECMI) it was awesome to bring some light to greatness of the previous editions. Thanks for touching on the older modules as well, new releases do not even come close to touching how amazing those adventures are.
I remember my first experience with D&D 30 years ago. It completely blew my mind 🤯 and has been a wonderful part of my life ever since.
That whole "roll under" mechanic was a great one back in the day. Here's a variation I find highly helpful even in my 5th edition games. Rolling vs stat. Instead of trying to figure out a DC for something, have the player roll a D20 against the stat most closely related to what they're trying to do. Need to lift something heavy? Roll under your strength. Need to walk across a tightrope, roll under your dexterity. The better your stat, the easier the thing is to succeed at. It simplifies a lot, and if the thing is really easy, let them subtract a modifier from their roll. If it's particularly hard, add a modifier to their roll.
If you have issues with figuring DC's on the fly, give it a try, and I hope it helps.
Auntie Inari one of our DM’s used that old mechanic in his last campaign.
Shoot, that's... With Bounded Accuracy... That's GENIUS!
Mathematically it is basically 1D20 + Attribute (STR, DEX etc) vs a DC of 20. If you want it simple but cannot grok roll under, do that. Or 1D20 + Ability Score Modifier (12 = +1 to 20 = +5) vs a DC of 10 works as well.
That's the entire mechanic for everything in symbaroum. Roll under ability (which are 5-15), add skill, subtract or add modifier (also based on the 5-15 for opposed rolls, which makes the modifier super easy to work out in that case, or difficulty level). It's clean AF.
Criticals are damage based, and optional. (Basically if you do more than a certain amount of damage).
Honestly roll under is probably better for everything. It can be used to avoid opposed rolls, and can even be used to avoid the GM rolling any dice for player outcomes.
@Joe Blow Wow, people do like to bring polidtics into everything. Dumbed down modern American common core math is very different from how they approach math in the USSR and China. They put the modern US school system to shame for math. That said, I am not talking politics, just remembering what my Cinese friends said. I know 14 years playing and they say 5E is very simplified. I played a ton of 1E and fighters were pretty nerfed.
Huh, I'm currently playing Red Hand of Doom with my group on Roll20. Our DM adapted it to 5E and it's been pretty good (though I think we're close to the end of it now).
But my initial reaction to this vid is "no. I don't miss THAC0. NO ONE should miss THAC0..."
@Waynem Lambert Hahahaha, I can appreciate yer taste but I'm afraid no one is gonna sell me on THAC0. I've loved D&D since the first time I played it as a wee lad, and the majority of my young RP years were spent playing through the Dragon Lance setting. I loved it, but even back then combat gave me fits because I regarded THAC0 as such an effin headache.
I find the current mechanics to be BLISSFULLY easier.
I love THAC0, I taught my kids mental arithmetic with THAC0
Red Hand of Doom was my first campaign 13 years ago! I hope you’re enjoying it as much as I did!
I think this one of your best videos. One of the best in UA-cam about D&D
Thank you so much!
Best starting ever guys!
You never fail to make me smile.
Seriously tempted to homebrew a race of time traveling sentient beets all named Ted
If you do, make them Beet Supremacists, who all believe the Beet is the highest form of life in existence. That would be some excellent role-playing opportunities right there.
Excellent.
Is that intro a reference to something or just off the cuff? Either way it was fantastic
The twilight zone or something I think
I thought it was a Calvin Klein commercial
Citizen Kane
A sprinkle of Citizen Kane, nestled in a bed of Twilight Zone but the seed was Lil’ Bits from Rick & Morty.
It reminded me of the "little bits" gag from Rick and Morty, but I trust that was a reference to something else too.
OMG I have to thank you so much. I remembered owning the 1981 version, with the rules after expert, but all anyone ever talks about is the basic and expert sets that came out at the same time as first edition advanced. I thought I was losing my bloody mind! And to find out the rules I played with are all available in one book! Needless to say I just ordered a nice used copy of that book. Thank you so much for effectively giving me my childhood D&D back. Even if I never play it that holds such a special place in my heart.
Fantastic episode and something I've often thought about during my time playing D&D!
I started with the Red Box all the way through 2nd edition. I'm playing 5th ed. now. It runs smoothly, but these modern modules & campaigns don't hold a candle to the 2nd edition sets in any way. From narrative, to villain quality, to magic item progression 2nd ed. was just more involved.
I wrote my THAC0 chart out in huge numbers on a paper dinner mat from a Bob Evans Restaurant on 1989, and my whole group used it. We had a tiny shuffleboard stick & a stone we'd use to move it around the chart. Good times
@Joe Blow think "gateway".
also, it does do the job and is less of a hassle to learn.
the mechanics are only to define how the world functions and how things and beings can interact. relying too heavily on the system to tell the story can be problematic.
the roleplay and story is it's own thing and does not need to be system dependent.
less rollplay, more roleplay.
I actually just had a conversation with a brand new player, and he asked me where I found out all the lore and terminology. I had a hard time answering, as it seems like I've always known. My exposure to d&d starts at original AD&D, when I was in elementary school. So for me, it seems like always...
You can't answer because it's all over the place. wotc can't manage to keep it all within a single book so one can easily get lost if he misses one.
That said, the world is so extensive I wouldn't blame anyone for having lackng knowledge. Personally I end up getting the PDFs and ctrl+F through them when I need something. I don't see how someone could remember all of it if he doesn't *live* D&D.
@@SPTX. I think you missed the connection between my comment and the video...
Prior versions of the game gave us concepts and terms that aren't documented anymore, but are still in use. Telling someone where they originate isn't easy, when that usage goes back 40+ yrs, and I'm not sure exactly where I heard it originally.
Exploration segments are a great example. Nothing in 5e documents this, but many tables do it and most players over 30 intuitively understand what's happening.
Yeah, after decades of playing in AD&D's flagship setting, if I was sucked through a portal into Forgotten Realms tomorrow, I could figure out exactly where I was & what to do with a disturbing ease.
A 70's era dungeon crawl can be such a hoot. Friends, pizza, and laughs until your belly hurts.
That sounds Hella fun!
Wow. Trip down memory lane with this video. Thanks for recalling those memories for me. I had forgotten those memories from my first campaigns in AD&D twenty years ago.
I dont get to play D&D ever anymore but my favorite was 3rd Edition. The weird builds and MinMaxing made the game feel like an adventure through the mechanics. I have a great deal of Nostalgia for 3rd.
The min-maxing is what I hate most about 3rd. I stick to core d20SRD rules - no UA, no supplements, and the options and customizability is still high.
I want more play to be at the table and not away from it working on "builds."
Great video!. my first and favorite Dnd edition was AD&D 2e
its virtue was his worse problem. It had a lot of detail, more rules than you never wanted for ;). but that is interesting for bookworms gamers. but at the same time it was underwelming for new players, and a nigthmare for more "acting type" of player
5e its a good atempt to simplify and make it more aproachable, and a nice bridge to more acting type games like WoD games.
I love that you guys have so much fun together! I can tell you guys are genuine friends and I just appreciate you guys! So thank you for your content and sharing your friendship
You guys! SUCH a great video! Really coming into your stride on this one! Also might be my FAVOURITE web DM moment with you both saying "tid-bits" with such glee!!!😂 thanks for another amazing video, keep up the good work!😁
I wish I still had all my Advanced D&D books. I would love to run some of those modules for my current players. I think they'd be more fun than our current campaign Tomb of Annihilation.
@Waynem Lambert Same. I only have a few of the 2E books because by that point I was off on other RPG tangents (Traveller, Gamma World, Morrow Project, Call of Cthulhu, etc.). For our group, the simplicity of AD&D was part of its strength. We took the framework and added or subtracted as needed. Like the afterword in the DM Guide says --
"It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, which is important. Never hold to the letter written, nor allow some barracks room lawyer to force quotations from the rules book upon you, if it goes against the obvious intent of the game..."
Admittedly, some of took that further than others, but we always made it work.
I've primarily played 3.5, but my Dad introduced me to AD&D, and the longest campaign I played was an AD&D campaign. I gotta say that I like 3/3.5's mechanics a lot better (especially if you don't have min/maxers) but the unified experience track for all classes was garbage. The asymmetrical advancement of AD&D felt really good. Power-spikes and power imbalance between spellcasters and non-spell casters made sense, if you care about that. Now, in my 5th ed campaign, I arbitrarily give my players levels.
This video is so great. I started DM'ing w/ 5e, and when I happened to pick up a copy of Old School Essentials and discovered gold for xp, reaction rolls, morale and the procedures for dungeon and wilderness exploration... I fell in love. I could not understand why this wasn't part of the 5e core, and whenever I tried to explain that to friends they looked at me like I was mad (or even got angry in some cases!). In any case, I've been working to incorporate these into my 5e games to good result. It gives some simple, hackable structure, and it also allows things to be more dynamic and interesting.
I came back again just to watch the best opening for a show, ever.
I started on 3rd edition about 2 years after it first came out. I've heard a lot about 2nd edition and other systems like it, and I'm tremendously curious about it. I wish I could find someone to DM a short campaign using an older system.
Soooo...."Tidbits" shirts coming soon, yeah?
Oh boi, I love the older DnD Editions! Just started running White Plume Mountain and I am planning ob running Ravenloft!
When I was about 8, I got the red and blue basic TSR box sets. It was hard enough to learn for me and my little brother but I eventually got it (for the most part LOL). Then in 89' I got the 2nd Edition books. I was floored. It was like a junior high school kid trying to learn advanced college stuff LOL It took me a very long time to learn. I was hesitant of the 3rd Ed. books by WotC but after I got the set I was hooked. I have 20 3rd Ed books and adventure modules, D20 books, Sword & Sorcery books and I have over 20 Palladium books, RIFT's mostly, some Robotech, Fantasy rulebook, Super Spies (LOVE IT!!) and Hero's Unlimited. I have over 30 years DM/GM RPG experience. I can play D&D without books, except maybe the Monster Manuel but I can go without that as well if need be.
I passed my monster Morale roll.
Watching to the end!
Oh my god that intro was perfect.
I can't believe I somehow managed to miss this video back when it came out. That mention of the Exploration system is a GODSEND for me. I'm definitely going to be looking into using that a lot more.
Guys, this might be one of your best. I would happily watch a deep dive video for each edition.
That first minute was all I needed from this video.
The strange thing is that I started with AD&d 2nd edition and really grew to dislike it quickly, but when 3E came out, it was almost like the very things I disliked about AD&D (splatbook insanity, optimization pressure, classes&levels mostly) for some reason attracted me to 3E.
thac0 Worked like a charm. it was a definate level/skill gate that required fighters to pass. it was close ended, so no run away armor sets. it was easily run.2
Love this topic. Could easily have listened to several more hours on it! With each edition becoming such a different thing in itself, it seems natural to take some of the best things that each one did and combine them together to buttress the shortcomings of another.
Hey Jim Davis! Can you point me more specifically for where i can find the rules (which book from what edition) for the 10 minute exploration rounds you mentioned to use out of combat in a dungeon? Thanks! Great episode!
AD&D DMG is probably the best place to read up on it. One turn is ten rounds, one round is one minute. Each round of combat lasted one minute and represented the final result of an unspecified number of feints and parries; very abstract. Exploration was measured in turns. It assumed the characters were moving slowly and cautiously, checking for traps and making a map. You could move faster but then you didn't get saving throws for traps and monsters always surprised you and the DM would leave out important details so you were likely to get lost.
God the intro had me in tears XD
0:43 Don't think we missed that giggle and smooch there, Jim. We've been left wanting!
Pausing after the opening to say, best opening ever! Keep up the amazing work!
I love blending editions man, but I'm a homebrewer anyway
A book with 2nd edition style lore... and 4th edition monster design...
Yaaassss Please!!!
Kickstart that!
@Waynem Lambert I am referring to the higher level monsters with more interesting abilities. And having multiple versions of different power level.
man i gota say that opening you guys did was awsome. best one iv seen so far. keep i up guys
What I like about Thac0 and old AC is that because there's implied boundaries - you start at 20 and 10 and go down to 0 or below - there is an innate sense of how good you are compared to how good you could be. Thac0 of 10...you're halfway to 0 so you're halfway between novice and peak perfection. Attack bonus of +10...you're good but...how good? It's subtle but meaningful.
In 5e, you could consider something like your Chance to Hit Tarrasque (CtHT). Take its AC of 25 and then subtract your attack bonus. From there, your chance to hit is just (1-((25-atk mod)/20))-.05. Obviously, you want this to be as close to .95 (all non crit-misses are hits on the highest AC monster in the game) as possible. (Note that if the (25-atk mod)/20 part turns up negative, just count it as 0.) In your example, (1-((25-10)/20))-.05 -> (1-(15/20))-.05 -> (1-(.75))-.05 -> .25-.05 -> .2.so 20% of attacks against the tarrasque could hit. I can think of some ways to get it up to the 80% range for a level 20 paladin, and higher may be possible. You can always also swap out the 25 with the AC of the foe you're currently facing to get your current effectiveness. I suppose what I'm considering the "implied boundaries" and "peak perfection" here is the mathematical cap of 95% effectiveness (which should feel pretty normal to strive for to anyone who's played Fallout and used VATS).
Suggestion: when talking about specific books, you could show the cover of the book. Maybe you could put some illustrations while editing the video. Book covers, monsters, idk.
I prefer 2nd Edition Non-Weapon Proficiencies to skills. They felt more expressive, and afforded inspiration for practical or quirky characters out of the book.
I prefer 3e Skills use.
I use to have a few "Dragon Lance" novels for the campaign setting.
Skills work better than Proficiencies.
Blow darts blew
I liked from AD&D was modifiers 'to hit' based on weapon type vs each type of armor. For example, a staff used on someone with no armor will whoop up, whereas a flail crushes anyone in plate mail.
These last couple of intros have been absolutely amazing!