I've figured out Sly Flourish's secret to improve. If you need a location or thing, say obelisk even if you've already given that option. If it's an NPC, say cultist. But change the robe color
I’ve really grown to appreciate the advice that sometimes the GM just has to take the reins and tell the players what’s what in a given situation. I ran a session a while back in which the PCs wanted to take out a group of criminals operating out of a warehouse. Once they discovered the location, they were hell bent on busting in there right away. They hemmed and hawed for like 20 minutes on a plan only to come up with something that was pretty lame and led to yet another straight forward, toe-to-toe combat. They eventually prevailed, but no one was happy with what happened. Thinking about the situation later, what I should have said was something like, “As you consider a plan while quickly surveying the building, you realize that you have no way of knowing how many crooks are inside. You also don’t know if there are innocents involved, if the gang has allies in the area or what they actually use the warehouse for. You realize you have several options. You could attempt to force your way in right away, surveil the facility for a day or two to gather more information, surreptitiously question the neighbors, or even check with your contacts elsewhere in the city to see if they know anything.”
In my games, the players balance against the monsters. If they charge in all disorganized. They normally do poorly. 5e is not dangerous enough to discourage just charging, unless the dm makes the difficulty harder.
There is a mod for foundry: Times up. It sets a 2 Minute Timer for each member to do his round. The admin can put in other durations. A loud sound and a visual warning apears if your time is up, you can ignore it and take your time but this strong reminder works well for my group
one tip I can add that I do for my own GM purposes, if player fail to look or find in one specific spot that results in them missing a great piece of treasure that they earned, is to include it in another treasure cache or the final dungeon boss's hoard that they do locate and loot. This prevents their need to excessively keep going over places, and it makes them not miss out, and makes the GMs life easier that he didn't need to showcase every nook and cranny.
This was my first time experiencing your show on UA-cam. I've listened to most the last few years of your stuff on Podbeam. While I've enjoyed the content on Podbeam, I have to say that "The dial gets turned up" enjoying your content on UA-cam. Thanks for all that you do!
Sometimes when the characters have a lot of selling loot to do, I’ll just make a list of what they’re selling and give ‘em a total. It’s an essential part of the game but can take a lot of time, especially if you’re role playing each shop encounter so I’d prefer to skip a lot of it (ofc some special cases for buying/selling particular loot). I’ll also just leave them to peruse standard equipment tables and buy stuff out of pocket, trusting them to do their own maths. We play Shadowdark so the low gear slots and equipment management is important but I don’t wanna spend 30m-1h every session bringing the party on a shopping trip 😅
Something triangulating with MCDM “cut” scene mechanic, Professor Dungeon Master’s video on when a roll is useful and interesting, and now this. Loving these talks of pacing from all over. Makes me feel less insane when I’m banging my head against a computer screen when I’m working on a film that has horrendous pacing.
Great video for helping me with my weakest area as a new DM! During our ongoing Ghosts of Saltmarsh campaign I was struggling in the 2nd chapter (haunted house) to keep the pacing from feeling too slow. Your tips on combat and especially searching for traps and treasure would have greatly helped during this chapter and I will be using these in the future when things are feeling slow with our partially-newbie group.
Hi Sly, I always follow your videos, they are fantastic and help me a lot as a master! I will start a campaign with 6 player for the first time (I use to run only 4 player campaign), do you have any advice on what is different for the master in relation to a 4 player game?
Interrupting with a NPC can help. Most players seem suspicious of the DM speaking out of character but a damsel or helpless child in need of assistance seems very convincing
I’ve been running Epic L20 oneshots on R20 Had 6 players and I told then super in advance that iy’d be up to a 9 hour marathon (one big encounter vs a god and multiple boss-level monsters). Only 3 players stayed more than 2 hours because they were heavily invested and/or free. I employed “cut from the middle” and decreased Enemy HP (but not their damage) and It was one of my best one shots, and it took 5h instead of 9h
I've been enjoying the new format and how you list off what the video will be discussing at the top of the show, but I did miss hearing "..your pal from Sly Flourish.." Edit: also you're thinking of China, not Japan, referring to the packing of the trains lol
Yessssss. I’ve never played a ttrpg but even watching games online that was my biggest complaint. IT’S BORING!!! I mean like, as a DM you are the god of the world. Let make something happen!!!
1:01 I'm listening to this a year later from when you first posted it and I'm not a GM as of yet but from when I last played I just thought that there were too many players! We had 6-8 people at the table and I didn't enjoy it most of the time. For me, 4-5 and maybe 6 is ideal but anymore than that doesn't seem enjoyable for me.
I really don't agree with the "tuning hit points to end the battle early" vs. "calling it right here" take. Usually when I'd call the battle is when there's a single enemy who has just had their turn, but is still at moderate or high hit points, and the players know it won't just go down in one or two hits, but the players would finish it off before its turn would come up next. It just feels bad to have the monster suddenly become much weaker than its peers so it can be finished in the next hit. To me it feels much better to ask the party "this monster is not going to survive your next round of attacks. How do you guys finish off this final monster?" It's quick and has better verisimilitude.
Your solution has the added benefit of really engaging your players’ imaginations in a way that just dialing down hit points or going through the motions until HP=0 does not.
Close it might be the second most important GM trait. THE MOST IMPORTANT TRAIT A GM HAS is the Skills and Talent for DESCRIPTION. Vocabulary, Language and Communication is 90% of the whole game, pacing is the rest.
I haven't encountered the term, "organized play adventure". Doubtless this is revealing that I haven't watched a ton of your videos yet. Anyway, I get the idea that you are talking about a published adventure? Like what some still call a module. Is that what "organized play adventure" means?
In this context, it means a game at a convention. These games have very strict time limits and the DMs are running a module that was written for an event like this.
I think it means playing at a game store or game club with people you may have only just met. Sometimes there are multiple tables, with one DM at each table, all running the same adventure at the same time.
I don't get why running large games is so common. I really enjoy running smaller games - I am even running a one-on-one campaign rn. I understand that the game is balanced for 4 pcs, but I consider that more of a soft upper limit tbh
I have had 6 or 7 in my current campaign because it gives me a chance to still run the game if 1, 2 or even 3 folks are out because life happens. Currently I’m down to 6 regular players because one needed to drop out due to ongoing health issues which is the sweet spot for me.
I played in a drop-in game at a local game store where I was one out of ten players and the other nine played as a group at the store every week! I guess there are a lot more folks that want to be players than there are folks willing to DM.
If only or mostly the DM feels it, it can be a control issue. Letting things happen and not being actively involved can be hard but also worthwile to try a couple of times as a new tool. I'm no fan of Critical Role, but Matthew Mercer is actually pretty good at this.
Edit out stuff that doesnt involve conflict or emotion or a secret or clue. Begin to push to next player. Instead of initiative, go clockwise around table.
Arrows fire first, swords get swung second, and magic spells finish up going off last. Missiles, Melee, Magic system, but I also add a defense roll for every character when they get hit, but the defense doesn't change if I have multiple foes attacking.
If a VTT let you run polls or let the players indicate when they're losing interest would you want it? At your table, as well as having your veto cards on content you're uncomfortable with, would you be massively insulted if players could also signal boredom? Just trying to think of non confrontational ways your group can communicate without things devolving into an interpersonal quagmire.
I don't get this whole player engagement thing where someone is playing something on a handheld (or whatever) at the table. My table is pretty loosey goosey but no one does that. If they did I'd tell them it's not cool. If your pacing is suffering from players doing that kind of thing it's time to gently tell them that it's disrespectful of you and the other players to do so and if they keep doing it that perhaps your table is not right for them.
Move to action, but combats are boring, so end the combat fast... It's flying forward. I feel there's a lot of talk about speeding everything in the game to the point where everything must be rushed. If people get bored this easily, maybe they shouldn't play the game ? Indeed you have to speed things up with large groups, but there's a point where it's killing the game for me. If you're a bit bored and other players enjoy roleplaying because you're craving a fight, let the spotlight and enjoy the next big fight where those players may be a bit bored ! It feels like we're talking about children attention span.
Mike mentioned it once or twice, but I think the idea of the video is that here are some things to consider and some tools to try if you’re finding that pacing is a problem for your players. I don’t think that he was meaning that a GM should do these things always. I get what you’re saying, as it’s hard to balance everyone’s fun when your players can be pretty diverse in their motivations and interests. It is a give and take for EVERYONE at the table. I wish more content providers made videos about how players can be better players, though. It’s questionable how many players would watch them though.
I know that a lot of people is super hung up on one system. But if your group as a ehole looses interest because combats tales too long. You are playing the wrong system for you.
I've figured out Sly Flourish's secret to improve. If you need a location or thing, say obelisk even if you've already given that option. If it's an NPC, say cultist. But change the robe color
I’ve really grown to appreciate the advice that sometimes the GM just has to take the reins and tell the players what’s what in a given situation. I ran a session a while back in which the PCs wanted to take out a group of criminals operating out of a warehouse. Once they discovered the location, they were hell bent on busting in there right away. They hemmed and hawed for like 20 minutes on a plan only to come up with something that was pretty lame and led to yet another straight forward, toe-to-toe combat. They eventually prevailed, but no one was happy with what happened.
Thinking about the situation later, what I should have said was something like, “As you consider a plan while quickly surveying the building, you realize that you have no way of knowing how many crooks are inside. You also don’t know if there are innocents involved, if the gang has allies in the area or what they actually use the warehouse for. You realize you have several options. You could attempt to force your way in right away, surveil the facility for a day or two to gather more information, surreptitiously question the neighbors, or even check with your contacts elsewhere in the city to see if they know anything.”
In my games, the players balance against the monsters. If they charge in all disorganized. They normally do poorly. 5e is not dangerous enough to discourage just charging, unless the dm makes the difficulty harder.
There is a mod for foundry: Times up. It sets a 2 Minute Timer for each member to do his round. The admin can put in other durations. A loud sound and a visual warning apears if your time is up, you can ignore it and take your time but this strong reminder works well for my group
one tip I can add that I do for my own GM purposes, if player fail to look or find in one specific spot that results in them missing a great piece of treasure that they earned, is to include it in another treasure cache or the final dungeon boss's hoard that they do locate and loot. This prevents their need to excessively keep going over places, and it makes them not miss out, and makes the GMs life easier that he didn't need to showcase every nook and cranny.
This was my first time experiencing your show on UA-cam. I've listened to most the last few years of your stuff on Podbeam. While I've enjoyed the content on Podbeam, I have to say that "The dial gets turned up" enjoying your content on UA-cam. Thanks for all that you do!
I desperately needed this video
Great suggestions, this should be watched by anyone running OR playing a game.
Fantastic advice! Thank you!
Sometimes when the characters have a lot of selling loot to do, I’ll just make a list of what they’re selling and give ‘em a total. It’s an essential part of the game but can take a lot of time, especially if you’re role playing each shop encounter so I’d prefer to skip a lot of it (ofc some special cases for buying/selling particular loot). I’ll also just leave them to peruse standard equipment tables and buy stuff out of pocket, trusting them to do their own maths.
We play Shadowdark so the low gear slots and equipment management is important but I don’t wanna spend 30m-1h every session bringing the party on a shopping trip 😅
Something triangulating with MCDM “cut” scene mechanic, Professor Dungeon Master’s video on when a roll is useful and interesting, and now this. Loving these talks of pacing from all over. Makes me feel less insane when I’m banging my head against a computer screen when I’m working on a film that has horrendous pacing.
Good advice ❤
I have a bit of the opposite problem, but still tremendously helpful to keep in mind!
Great video for helping me with my weakest area as a new DM! During our ongoing Ghosts of Saltmarsh campaign I was struggling in the 2nd chapter (haunted house) to keep the pacing from feeling too slow. Your tips on combat and especially searching for traps and treasure would have greatly helped during this chapter and I will be using these in the future when things are feeling slow with our partially-newbie group.
Hi Sly, I always follow your videos, they are fantastic and help me a lot as a master! I will start a campaign with 6 player for the first time (I use to run only 4 player campaign), do you have any advice on what is different for the master in relation to a 4 player game?
Move along nothing to see here, that evil wizard went back to his house, he's done, he's tired.
Interrupting with a NPC can help. Most players seem suspicious of the DM speaking out of character but a damsel or helpless child in need of assistance seems very convincing
I’ve been running Epic L20 oneshots on R20
Had 6 players and I told then super in advance that iy’d be up to a 9 hour marathon (one big encounter vs a god and multiple boss-level monsters).
Only 3 players stayed more than 2 hours because they were heavily invested and/or free. I employed “cut from the middle” and decreased Enemy HP (but not their damage) and It was one of my best one shots, and it took 5h instead of 9h
I now favor games with 2-3 players, gosh does it goes faster.
Me too.
Yessss so good
I've been enjoying the new format and how you list off what the video will be discussing at the top of the show, but I did miss hearing "..your pal from Sly Flourish.."
Edit: also you're thinking of China, not Japan, referring to the packing of the trains lol
Japan did it with employees wearing white gloves, not shields, when I lived there about 10 years ago.
Just JRRT can keep a good pacing with a party of 9...
bonus point to not TPK xD
Yessssss. I’ve never played a ttrpg but even watching games online that was my biggest complaint. IT’S BORING!!! I mean like, as a DM you are the god of the world. Let make something happen!!!
Thats what i like about dimension 20 the pacing is really good. Critical role is way too slow for me.
1:01 I'm listening to this a year later from when you first posted it and I'm not a GM as of yet but from when I last played I just thought that there were too many players! We had 6-8 people at the table and I didn't enjoy it most of the time. For me, 4-5 and maybe 6 is ideal but anymore than that doesn't seem enjoyable for me.
I really don't agree with the "tuning hit points to end the battle early" vs. "calling it right here" take. Usually when I'd call the battle is when there's a single enemy who has just had their turn, but is still at moderate or high hit points, and the players know it won't just go down in one or two hits, but the players would finish it off before its turn would come up next. It just feels bad to have the monster suddenly become much weaker than its peers so it can be finished in the next hit. To me it feels much better to ask the party "this monster is not going to survive your next round of attacks. How do you guys finish off this final monster?" It's quick and has better verisimilitude.
Your solution has the added benefit of really engaging your players’ imaginations in a way that just dialing down hit points or going through the motions until HP=0 does not.
Close it might be the second most important GM trait. THE MOST IMPORTANT TRAIT A GM HAS is the Skills and Talent for DESCRIPTION. Vocabulary, Language and Communication is 90% of the whole game, pacing is the rest.
I haven't encountered the term, "organized play adventure". Doubtless this is revealing that I haven't watched a ton of your videos yet. Anyway, I get the idea that you are talking about a published adventure? Like what some still call a module. Is that what "organized play adventure" means?
In this context, it means a game at a convention. These games have very strict time limits and the DMs are running a module that was written for an event like this.
I think it means playing at a game store or game club with people you may have only just met. Sometimes there are multiple tables, with one DM at each table, all running the same adventure at the same time.
I don't get why running large games is so common. I really enjoy running smaller games - I am even running a one-on-one campaign rn. I understand that the game is balanced for 4 pcs, but I consider that more of a soft upper limit tbh
I have had 6 or 7 in my current campaign because it gives me a chance to still run the game if 1, 2 or even 3 folks are out because life happens. Currently I’m down to 6 regular players because one needed to drop out due to ongoing health issues which is the sweet spot for me.
I played in a drop-in game at a local game store where I was one out of ten players and the other nine played as a group at the store every week! I guess there are a lot more folks that want to be players than there are folks willing to DM.
If only or mostly the DM feels it, it can be a control issue. Letting things happen and not being actively involved can be hard but also worthwile to try a couple of times as a new tool. I'm no fan of Critical Role, but Matthew Mercer is actually pretty good at this.
Edit out stuff that doesnt involve conflict or emotion or a secret or clue. Begin to push to next player.
Instead of initiative, go clockwise around table.
I love clockwise initiative. It also helps out with getting quieter players to be involved.
Arrows fire first, swords get swung second, and magic spells finish up going off last. Missiles, Melee, Magic system, but I also add a defense roll for every character when they get hit, but the defense doesn't change if I have multiple foes attacking.
If a VTT let you run polls or let the players indicate when they're losing interest would you want it? At your table, as well as having your veto cards on content you're uncomfortable with, would you be massively insulted if players could also signal boredom? Just trying to think of non confrontational ways your group can communicate without things devolving into an interpersonal quagmire.
I don't get this whole player engagement thing where someone is playing something on a handheld (or whatever) at the table. My table is pretty loosey goosey but no one does that. If they did I'd tell them it's not cool. If your pacing is suffering from players doing that kind of thing it's time to gently tell them that it's disrespectful of you and the other players to do so and if they keep doing it that perhaps your table is not right for them.
Mike - I have a _very_ dumb, unimportant request.
Would you be willing to accept feedback and suggestions on your screen layout?
Move to action, but combats are boring, so end the combat fast... It's flying forward. I feel there's a lot of talk about speeding everything in the game to the point where everything must be rushed. If people get bored this easily, maybe they shouldn't play the game ? Indeed you have to speed things up with large groups, but there's a point where it's killing the game for me. If you're a bit bored and other players enjoy roleplaying because you're craving a fight, let the spotlight and enjoy the next big fight where those players may be a bit bored ! It feels like we're talking about children attention span.
Mike mentioned it once or twice, but I think the idea of the video is that here are some things to consider and some tools to try if you’re finding that pacing is a problem for your players. I don’t think that he was meaning that a GM should do these things always. I get what you’re saying, as it’s hard to balance everyone’s fun when your players can be pretty diverse in their motivations and interests. It is a give and take for EVERYONE at the table. I wish more content providers made videos about how players can be better players, though. It’s questionable how many players would watch them though.
@@vintagezebra5527 Totally. They are good advices too. But Dms shouldn't be this stressed out about their pacing
Torture the kobold!!
I know that a lot of people is super hung up on one system. But if your group as a ehole looses interest because combats tales too long. You are playing the wrong system for you.