Is more expensive better? Decware Torii MK5 VS Decware UFO2 amplifier
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- #hifi #audiophile #amplifier #stereo #Integrated amp #tubes
/ thomasandstereo
Non-afflilated link for the Psvane EL34 replica
www.china-hifi...
Gear used or mentioned in this review :
Decware Torii MK5
Decware Super Zen TriodeSE84UFO2 AMP
Harbeth M30 Speakers
Pearl Acoustics Sibelius speakers
Doge 8 tube preamp
VTL 2.5 tube preamp
Quad 2905 speakers
KEF R700 speakers
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Track: Left Alone - Airixis [Audio Library Release]
Music provided by Audio Library Plus
Watch: • Left Alone - Airixis |...
Free Download / Stream: alplus.io/left...
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Non-afflilated link for the Psvane EL34 replica www.china-hifi-audio.com/en/psvane-vacuum-tube-electron-valve-c-32/psvane-quad-4-vacuum-tube-el34-ph-matched-philips-replica-6ca7-p-1175
Test track from Nils Lofgren ua-cam.com/video/jiDRLHXSyT0/v-deo.html
Sounds like I want to hear it though my system rather than my phone. The Pvane EL34 replica aroused my curiosity is this your recommendation for my integrated
Wow, you really outdid yourself on this one! It sounds like it wasn’t an easy comparison to make between two great amps that can each have a gazillion combinations of tubes but that are still different at the core. You described well what the essence of each unit is about and factoring in tube rolling. Awesome in describing in easy words the relationship between tonality, clarity, warmth and soundstage which is not always easy to understand. You do an amazing job at it, thank you.
Glad you liked it!
Steve Deckert is putting out some very beautiful tube designs aesthetically (imo). I have a base model Zen UFO and it is a very heavy and substantial 'feeling' unit built to last. The lifetime warranty is something that also gives the buyer confidence in his products. Thanks Thomas for a very interesting set of perspectives in your review.
This may be the best review I've heard on any product! The information you share and emphasis on listeners priorities is what many of us need to hear. Your storyline is entertaining and informative, especially where you talk about our own bottlenecks may play into product choices. Besides, I ordered my Torii MK5 over a year ago and anxiously awaiting mine with KT66 tubes. Keep up the great work.
Thomas, rather you realize it or not you have become one of the best reviewer of audio gear regardless of media outlets. I look forward to your new video as much as my Stereophile magazine in the mail. I do hope you review some horn speaker but than thats my preference and not necessary where your audio journey wants to be heading. I ordered my Zen Triode in July and still waiting and base upon this review I'm very happy with my choice.
Yeah, I give Thomas a huge amount of audio street credit too. Great review and choice of words T👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽 I think I’d prefer to have accuracy versus smoothness, but I love body and soul in my amps, more weight for me please
Wow, thanks for the compliment, really appreciate and glad my hard work paid off.
Here is what you can use to learn about those snake oil terms. Pretty standard stuff in the audio world. www.stereophile.com/reference/50/index.html
Excellent video, Thomas. And it was great that you added an explanation about how speaker positioning and the room could affect perception of the products (any product, really).
I love this! Quick note: I have found that 845 tubes' sound is GREATLY affected by the driver tube used. Not just the driver tube type, but the exact model and design of the specific driver tube itself. Which has resulted in a lack of homogeneity from the 845 based amps I've heard.
Great review Thomas! I'm not able to stretch to the $4k USD that the Torii costs, but I'd love to have been able to buy a Decware UFO this year, but, yeah, they just aren't available. So I bought a kit from Bottlehead, for their Single Ended eXperimenter (yeah, SEX) Amp. Not done yet, but have the kit in the house. I can hardly wait. All the best, my friend! Stay safe.
Man! Just another example why you are my favorite reviewer of high end audio gear! Not only do you give your opinions...fully supported as to why...but also the opinions of your trusted circle of audiophile friends! This level of gear is something that I will never experience, but I feel like I can enjoy it vicariously through you. Thank you for what you do. Thomas. Sincerely.
I think there are a number of ways to get to audio heaven. Some require more cash, and some require time and a modest amount of learning the minimum a couple of crafts.
For instance: Decwares famous Amp for 25 years is available as a DIY. You put in the labor, and I don't remember exactly, but it's 40% or more off. I don't think it has cabinet, but it Decware has some other options you may find interesting... and I bet you won't be in the back of the line for that.
Go to Garage sales, or Estate sales and you might find someone's gold in Audio. Even if there are professionals remember that most of them are buying to make Profit and they really don't want to get into a bidding war with you so you could end up 10s of Thousands of gear for 25%-$40% of going rates on Reverb or E-Bay.
There is ton of Gear out there and I've been getting if for under $20 bucks and sometimes for FREE.
Anyway..., if I only had all the TUBES my dad kept at the store for decades. 50 years ago.
We had TUBE that was 4 1/2 foot tall and diameter of about foot. It was part of NASA someone bought, went broke, and I got for next to nuthing, (about $4,000) and made my dad about $200,000 mostly Scrap metals. GOLD was everywhere and used at about 7.5% over everything back in the late 50s until the mid-70s over Government stuff --- Like Nasa. My dad didn't want to do it, but I could have had it all turned into Fair Trade Gold 999 fine....
Where was I ;) lol --- the opportunities - yeah there everywhere!
@@Labor_Jones thank you for your suggestions. I was in the scrap metal business for 40 plus years...I know about some of the big deals that came out of the late 50s, early 60s. I followed my Dad into it. I also buy a lot of vintage gear, just never tubes. Always been a looker, just never had any really efficient speakers. Never say never, I guess
@@stephenstevens6573 Yeah, when you are a Junkman's son it' a whole different world to think about. We were non-ferrious by nature. MY DAD went by "Alex the Junkman' I could go to most of the towns south of San Antonia and find someone who knew him looking for scrap or salvage. We did a lot toilets and tanks to Mexico when I was a kid that were torn out of re-modeled home town owned motels.
@@Labor_Jones my family was involved in the aerospace end of the scrap stream, but, like you said...EVERYBODY knew my dad and it definitely opened many doors that would have been closed to many
@@Labor_Jones The Decware ZKIT1 has fantastic sound and is not terribly complicated to build as long as you follow the directions and check in with the forums when you get stuck. I'm a complete novice and finished mine about 6 weeks ago and it just keeps sounding better and better. Highly recommend the ZKIT1 as a way to sample the Decware sound as you're waiting for your build.
Wow man. You have me so excited to pick my amp up tomorrow (I only live 1 hr from them). Yes I have been waiting 1 year for this moment. I got the Torii-JrV2, so I guess it’s in the middle of these. Looking forward to a couple tube rolls to fine tune the sound for my room. Thanks for all the info.
I wonder if it will be sweet sounding or neutral linear sounding. Let me know.
Look forward to your review on the Torii Jr. I have one on order...
Hey Percy. Like you I've also been waiting for my Torri Jr-v2. Should receive it in 2 weeks. After taking in all of Thomas' and his vintage friends recommendations, just ordered Sophia EL34 and Jan-Phillips 6L6 GWB tubes. Would love to hear your own impressions once you power it up w/stock or any new tubes. Thanks
I’m wondering what your thought process was on the Torii Jr. I keep second guessing myself and wonder if I should have ordered the MKV instead.
@@cheesesam I have never heard it so no real idea.
Great review Thomas! I was lucky enough to own a SE84UFO25 and the Torii MK V to simultaneously compare the two. I totally agree that the SET amp was special and really easy to hear right out of the box but the Torii needed to be dialed in.
I ended up keeping the Torii in the end to be able to tube roll a lot more. Also, I was able to dial into a nice sweeter sound as well going to the Good Lion KT-77 from the Tung Sol KT-66.
Interesting and thorough review as always Thomas. Your casual review/discussion style is what sets you apart from other reviewers. Keeps me coming back for more! Not sure I will want to wait 1-2 years for this product. Will keep looking.
Thomas thank you for using a cloth to handle the tubes. People think it doesn’t matter. It does.
Kudos to Decware for having a build sheet available to see your position in the queue available on their website. I’m almost a year in and I can happily say I’m on the first page now. Having that available to review at anytime puts your mind at ease.
I'm on page 4 ! Patience is a virtue
Page 4 here too !!!!! Have ordered the SE84ufo2 with all the upgrades. Though I’m thinking the Torii MKV. Don’t have all the money in the world but think it has more power and don’t want to be on the list for another year and a half wishing I had just stepped up. Thoughts anyone?
@@jooter100 I ordered my SE84UFO2 with all the upgrades as well. I considered the ZEN Mystery amp initially but came to my senses. If you have efficient speakers I’m sure this unit will be fine. The more I spend on audio, the less golf I can afford to play.🤷🏼♂️
@@jooter100 Gets crazy fun when you under 50 on the list. Just have to do your homework for your situation.
@@jooter100 depends on your speakers and size of room and musical tastes
I already own the greatest tube amp ever made, Audio Matiere Majuscule. The PSvane EL34 took it to another level. I've now ordered the EL84 to throw in as well. I can't wait to hear the outcome.
Fantastic review, Thomas! Informative and entertaining. I love that you include your audiophile pals in your reviews, a smart and unique approach. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
They are fantastic reviews. Thank you.
Great video Thomas. Choosing between these amps is a great “problem” to have, they are both amazing.
I totally get why you choose the UFO2, 100%.
Killer review Thomas, amazing amplifiers!
I have enjoyed my ufo2 and Decware’s phonoamp ZP3 for some time. I think of it as affordable elegance. Your review was insightful. I’ll have to listen to listen to the rest of the lineup some day.
Good Job Thomas a lot of hard work done to make this video. I just wish I could buy one of these amps and get them next week.
Haha, you better jump on my amp then when it comes out!
Harbeth?!!👍 Really realistic tone.if its anything like the 30.1. Instruments sound like they are and voices too. Maybe you could comment on that when you review speakers in the future on their tone. Cheers.
Couldn’t click fast enough Thomas. Good one
That “ power up” shot was awesome by the way:)
The Torii MK5 looks very much like a tube tester. I know it has been a polarizing thing, but I really like the design of the Decware units.
I agree. Except I hate the looks. JM2CW, and it has nothing to do with how it sounds. :)
@@michaelcollins2473 And your opinion is perfectly valid as well. 😊✌
Your enthusiasm is contagious.
Hi Thomas great review, I already made the decision I own the SE84ufo2 and the decware zp3 phono stage. They are both awesome and I agree I need to own both
Cool, thanks
I'm just be on the Decware long waiting list for Sarah WE300B yesterday. My current amp is Willsenton R800i-805 with Sophia 274B regurator. I feel I can't wait to hear the difference so try not to think about it for now.😂
As a Decware owner I've been waiting so thanks for the review it was excellent as always.
I'm just going to nitpick two little things. The SE84UFO2 is $1495 while the SE84UFO (metal case no meters) is a thousand bucks ($995) and as it also could be used as and integrated amp I was really hoping to hear the difference with and without without the preamp.
Thanks again I really enjoyed it and that enjoyment was not diminished over those two VERY minor things.
Ah, thanks for the correction.
Not anymore.
Steve raised prices reasonably so now it's sitting at $1195.00
Thank you for the great reviews, I truly appreciate your work. I ordered Zen Triode SE34I.6 the day before you posted this video, I can't wait to receive it after the 1500 other orders are fulfilled!
Great to hear!
Another incredible review! I have the UF02 on order (since April 2021) and considering my current rig and room, it appears to be the better choice for me at this time.
Your patience is admirable..
Trust me, it's worth the wait. While I loved the Torii, I found the differences (in my room, with my Klipsch Forte III) for me were modest - and overall the Zen UFO was smoother/sweeter so a better fit for me. The footprint additionally of the Zen is considerably smaller and placement of the amp easier to accommodate.
@@markscott7583 thank you, I appreciate the perspective!
To Mark Scott: I have just installed new Klipsch La Scala’s and am on the waiting list for a Zen UFO. The La Scala’s are even more sensitive than your Fortes. I have been worried about clipping with the Zen and possibly damaging the La Scala’s. Is that a concern in your view? Thanks for your input!
@@randymcclanahan5087 I haven’t experienced any clipping issues.
you continue to impress me as the best UA-cam reviewer. Thanks!
I ended up buying 2 Decware Models. The Zen Triode SE341.6 and the Torii MK5 power amp. I have Klipschorns 105db sensitivity and the 6 watt Zen Triode is a match made in Heaven. For Rock and Techno the Tori MK5 Push Pull gives me the power and Push Pull goodness for this type of music. I have Cary 150 watt 845 mono blocks that we're a terrible match for the Khorns. Without doubt the most expensive tube amps I have ever owned, I have them on my 4 Ohm Klipsch P35-F and Altec 804-6B speakers that require more power.
Thomas: the voltage regular would adjust the power to the sweet spot of the amp circuit:compensate for variations in local power which can run from 110 to 130 V.A nice touch.The higher end amps of the 50s and 60's-HH Scott,Fisher,HK et al mostly used el34s. They had a very lush mid range to them.
Thanks for the info!
The voltage regulator tube is not being used as a voltage regulator. It is being used in place of a resistor in the power supply. It is now a filter removing electrical noise from the power coming in.
I made a mistake. The Tori Mk5 DOES use the tube as a regulator. The Tori Jr uses it as a filter. So many amplifiers so little time.
Thank you Thomas, you are one of the best!!!
Great review Thomas. I've had a UFO for about 5 months now. I'm incredibly happy with it.
It must be very difficult to review tube amplifiers with so many options for tubes. Even though you look like you bought a bunch, there are still so many you haven't tried.... That could possibly change your input even further on this amp.
Sounds like Steve is working on a 300B amplifier right now too. I'm sure you'll be interested to get your hands on that one. 😉
I will start praying to the audio gods.
@@summerforever6736 I'm using Omega Super 8XRS. No problems with dynamics or bass using this combo.
Nice review Thomas. Thanks for sharing all your details. You speak from great experience.
It's the tubes that are interesting. Good thing I am happy with what I have. On the other hand there is a CAM member Rudyson who has 3 tube amps he built for sale. 2 are from kits. It might be interesting to hear from a builder that is a hobbyist. The one amp he built he used all quality components. Just a thought.
Thomas, this video may cause me to finally look at tube amps, excellent work sir. Your enthusiasm is utterly contagious and makes me really excited to hear how your new amp will be received. I’m confident it will be a hit. One question about this amp review, how much would it cost to buy the and AND the tubes that you felt worked so well together?
Oh Sophia tubes are like $600 and the Philips were like $250. Thanks.
@@ThomasAndStereoAnother missing detail; like whether the Tori is Push-Pull or maybe Parallel Single-ended?
Decware se84ufo+Bluesound music streamer+Klipsch Forte ii=music heaven!
Great review, thanks. Sound demo came alive with the VTL preamp.
Reading Steve Deckert's blogs got me interested in tube amps. I built my own using point to point wiring highly influenced by his approach.
Good video new stuff, MK5 AMPS and other amps
Thanks for the thoughtful review! I am 1/2 way through on the waiting list for a Torii Jr V2…
THOMAS, I HAVE ZERO EXPERIENCE WITH TUBE AMPS…Which is why your audio buddies can help people decide according to their ‘ tastes ‘ …but I have LIFELONG experience with food and I have had meals like this in my lifetime 😁😋😍😍😍
11:05 hahahah, Thomas i love you man.. Great review as always!
Thank you for this review. I have enjoyed a Decware amp for several years (the one they nickname "Rachel"). I swapped out the stock power tubes with some Shuguang EL34s and preferred the sound that way. I've seen the Sophia Electric EL34 tubes online and wondered if they would make even more of a positive difference. I wish you had talked more about those tubes because I'm quite curious about them! I think I might give them a roll soon.
Thanks for all the great content you produce. I always enjoy your videos.
Shawn, I bought a used Decware SE34 1.2 in 2018. It was shipped with Svetlana winged =C= EL34 tubes and my jaw dropped when I heard it. I had other brands of tube amps (both SE and push-pull) when I bought the Decware. None of my other amps sounded like the SE 34 and I was hooked on the brand. I started rolling the EL34s and bought the Sophias like Thomas has. They are my favorites of several different brands in the SE34. My humble advice is buy them sooner than later as Sophia can sell out of certain type of tubes that you may not see again or have a long wait for them to be restocked, like their type 45 and 5U4G. Thomas is spot on with the Sophia EL34s in the Torii and they are wonderful in my early model "Rachel" too.
Thomas, I really enjoy your reviews. May I suggest you review the Benchmark AHB2 Amp, or perhaps 2 of them in Bridged mode?
I would love to check it out.
Beautiful looking amp , Build quality looks outstanding ! They'd look great sitting in my dark room 😆Thanks Thomas
They are!
Thanks for the review! I would go with the UFO2 then see if I could live with the "FOMO". By the way, I own Quicksilver Audio Horn Monos with KT88s (paired with vintage Cornwalls) and would love to hear from you or anyone who has heard both and can compare the Decware amps to Quicksilver. Quickslivers don't seem to have many if any reviews here on youtube, but I'm very happy with mine. They're my first tube monoblocks.
Awesome video! 👍🏼
Glad you liked it!!
Excellent review! To be quick about it, to answer your question, I would get the Tori. I like tube rolling and I would need the higher power for my 88dB 4 ohm Magico A3s.
Excellent review, I don't think anyone is doing it better than you right now!
Thanks but sadly the view count shows that I am just mediocre.
@@ThomasAndStereo Do not confuse excellence with popularity. Naturally you want to increase the second by increasing the first, but it doesn’t necessarily work that way.
Just stay the course, bring back the stuffies and maybe do a couple softball pieces that make the rounds. You’ll find your audience.
i wish i had ordered a UFO a few months back. you can actually see their build out order which was kind of interesting to me. If he is up to 1000 orders that is like $2 million on the table. must be nice!
1500 orders now.
@@andrewconger5045 that's so awesome. Some of them are speaker orders to. Not to mention dual mono blocks. Mr decker is such a gift. Their diy approach is really a positive point in the hifi realm. I can't wait to see people making their own amps and speakers. Especially with 3D printing taking off. It's a great time to be alive.
I appreciate the review a bunch as finding reviews on Decware other equipment is very hard to find. .... I have 4 (same) 12 watt mono blocks and I have tried different tubes in each of them, but that isn't as important as what I found is that there is a BREAK IN PERIOD.
.... That the sound changes over 50 to 500 hours, sometimes so much so it's hard to believe the tubes when they were new were the same tubes many hours later.
.... So I wonder about tube-amps now when I hear about GREAT GEAR.... Just a thought. - m.
This is fact, no matter any noob or zealot says.
There is some damn fine audio equipment being made in the USA- Decware, Schiit, etc.
Awesome review of a great amplifier. Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Hi Thomas! Great review…. I would go for (judging by what you said) two Zen UFO’s and run them as monoblocks to give me that extra 3db! Thanks 🙏 .
I would pray to the audio gods again so they can send me their top of the line monoblocks :)
@@ThomasAndStereo - I’ll give it a try, you never know it might work! 😀
I would recommend looking at the SE34i.6. It would give you the six watts and cost you less money.
Cool UA-cam channel and review. I'll buy the power amplifier to drive my Wilson Audio TuneTot speakers
Nice job Thomas! I reached out to Decware a few months ago. Made a phone call and sent an email with some questions about their phono stage. Never got a reply! Oh well, decided not to be pushy. Then about a month later I missed one that was for sale locally by an hour!!! 🤬
I know it is of no consolation, but I do believe they are trying their best. Their order volume increased by about 10X normal (not an exaggeration) about a year/18 months ago, and as a small company it has been a challenge scaling up. I think it can take a couple tries to get through.
I love your reviews.
I appreciate that!
Love this show!
I ordered the Rachel Decware's Zen SE34.6 Integrated @ 6w's but I plan on using 2 of them as mono blocks at 12 watts each so I will have 24 watts of Single ended tone Magic. BTW the Rachel is the original basic platform for the development of Decware's new 300B Amplifier the Sarah. So now you will need at least a third Decware amp to add to your collection. You should plan on coming to the Decware Fest in October to hear it's debut.
Upstream I'll have the DW ZP3 Zen Phono Preamp.
Great review. I own a UFO and love it to death but I would like to compare it to a Tori myself at my place! Alas, shipping to Holland is pretty expensive!
This is the way Enzo Ferrari made his cars so famous : Very long delivery time together with Very high prices ... and damned good and BEAUTIFULL cars !
Frankly, not impressed with the sound demos at all but great video presentation as always. Appreciate that you use the same track to make comparisons with previous videos easier.
I accidentally set to -7db in the edit so that is the volume is way lower and that might have affected the sound demo.
Good review!
I am thinking about the 25 anniversary UFO
I'm 6 months into the wait for my ZMA. Probably almost halfway 😍
Hi Thomas, nice review. Was your Torri MK5 stock or did it have the level 2 anniversary mods?
No idea, I did not know there is a level 2 mod!
@@ThomasAndStereo The Level two add Milflex Copper Foil ..(capacitors??) I believe. Priced at $600.00
Very good and relevant question Joe Cool!
It would be great a review of the SE34I.6 since it gas 6w per channel so it would increase the range of speakers that could be paired with it and the price is near to the UFO2. Also it seems to me that the SE34I.6 offers more features that are similar to the ones some of the tube amps you have reviewed have. Thanks
I agree with you there Mr. Mendoza… it’s the amp I ordered back in February. The waiting list is a major factor currently, however I believe it will be worth the wait given all the positive reviews. Hope to finally have the “Rachael” sometime in late 2023.
Sir great review you can see your love of music terrific insight to deckware a plus.music on
Nice review, ty
My favorite tube is the 807 nos rcas in my amp.Not that expensive The sound is so natural.I go to about 40 jazz and blues show a year in small clubs with well controlled audio. this tube makes it sound like i'm their. But you will need tube converter adapter for this tube.
So, @ 2000 dollars for a couple of UFOs, one may have exactly what is needed for a sweet sound in a smaller room without much acoustic treatment?
Thanks for your Excellent review Thomas. Always entertaining and informative. Have you checked out any LTA (e.g. the Ultralinear tube power amp) kit? Would love to learn from your opinion. Greetings to you and yours
They were supposed to send me something a few years ago but did not because of customs. Maybe they just forgot to get back to me.
Great review ty
Thanks for watching!
Hi Thomas, Great service as usual. I am considering a Decware Preamp which looks great as well. Did you do any reviews on Cary SLP-05 with upgrade? If so, I would love to see that review if you have one. Or an honest observation between the two.
I have never heard that one. I think that one is a legend.
Great review - you should try and review the audio mirror amps is you ever get chance
Dynamic fidelity is largely ignored by reviewers. I’m glad that you discussed it in this review. For me, dynamic fidelity requires high sensitivity speakers that can provide adequate SPL with 2-3 Watts. Sensitivity in the high nineties is the minimum. This is a prerequisite that also allows for the use of low power tube amps. Real music, listened to in real life, can be shockingly dynamic when compared to systems based on typical low sensitivity speakers.
Decware, kicking ass again!!
Harbeth M30.2 speakers? Wow, when did that happen?!! Do you have a video with your thoughts on them? Do you like them? Did 25 watts adequately drive them? Any preference between tubes or SS with them? Harbeth M30.2s are on my short list for speaker selection. Congratulations!
This is the M30, I had the M30.1 before but never heard M30.2. Thanks. I love them and 25w is no problem driving them. I am a tube guy but either is fine.
First of all thanks for the review. Any reason 1st gen M30 was used over the 2nd gen M30.1?
@@cheepong1987 My friend bought the M30.2 off me so it is at his home.
🤗THOMAS,A GREAT STORY AND 😅FINDING THE BEST FOOD 🥘 ALSO REQUIRES PATIENCE AND A DEEPER WALLET 💵 BUT IT IS USUALLY WORTH THE EFFORT 🤗😍😍😍
So true!
Hi Thomas, thank you for your honest,enjoyable and super prof videos .
want to ask if are familiar with Copland cta 408?
did you had any experience with it?
thank a lot
Ran
I’d like the cheaper Decware, based on all the positive reviews. And I already have a Cary v12 for more power hungry speakers.
I’m in the process of building a ZEN Amp. I have high hopes for the ZEN when I’m through building it. It would have been much easier on my wallet if I had bought the Amp from Decware. The ZEN is a Great Amp, but I wanted to try one with some 25 watt output transformers, and a couple of large chokes in the power supply. The Big Push Pull Amp you reviewed has some really nice Iron on it, an it sounds great to. At $4,000 no one is getting rich off that amp. It’s doubtful I could buy the parts an Tubes much cheaper.
How are you doing that...there aren't any kits, no?
My opinion: learn to build your own. The satisfaction is priceless and they sound every bit as good. I built an amp from the Decware Zen schematic and it was very nice, but I cannot hear a "night and day" difference between this and every other amp I built. But it's way more fun to build your own because you have blood, sweat and tears invested in it. And you can fix it yourself if you ever need to.
Why pay 4 or 5 times as much and wait a year to get your amp?
nice designed
I have a confession, I'm on the wait list for a Decware SET but it's the 6 watt. I want the Galion but I just can't drop 4500k on an amp right now.
As long your speakers are easy to drive, 6w is good enough. Decware is great for mids, just keep in mind the bass punch is not the strongest.
Loic fired??
Well.....
If he cant put his Sebelius sonic experience into a detailed description (or in fact pronounce it;-)
Unfortunately tube amps dont drive Magnepan well.
I'm on a different path.
Tube preamp with SS power amp.
I wish you guys would finish your review the Musical Paradise MP701mk2, for your budget constained audience. Compared to the Freya+ hopefully?
My MP arrives Tuesday, since you declared it "Excellent" ( thats a good one word review, right??).
The Decware preamps sound interesting... for patient people!
🎶🤔🎶
Thanks MrT!
PS
Loic's DAC reviews prove he can describe the sonic presentation well.
I think you should keep him ;-)
i noticed 2 things that are not really how it should be done, i.m.h.o. #1, when you put tubes in an amp, dont push down on the glass to sink them in, always only put force on the base, never on the glass, and you dont need a cloth rag, the glass does not get that hot for skin oil to damage the glass.
#2 In the sound demo, you show the amp with the volume turned up , powered on, without any load connected, thats also a no no, even though you dont have a signal playing, the amp could amplify radio frequency interference from your cell phone for instance, and damage your output transformers. If you really cant resist, at least turn the volume down.
Thanks for the suggestion. In the sound demo, it is just broll but not the actual recording.
Very interesting. I would love to buy a Zen. One day ... BTW, what are those speakers tou gave behind you please?
If that UFO was ~10 watts, I would be on the list too. Great video. Is it me or the VTL sounded better and fuller than the Doge?
I preferred the VTL as well.
The SE84UFO2 is 2.4 watts in stereo and 6 watts mono....you will need two. Their SE34i.6 is 6 watts in stereo and 12 watts in mono.
One SE34i.6 is cheaper than two SE84UFO2 amps. The Tori Jr is cheaper than two SE34i.6 amps and gives you 20 watts. The SE84UFO2 and SE34i.6 amps are single ended triodes. The Tori Jr is a push pull amp so you are changing types.
If you are using speakers that have an SPL rating of 94dB or higher the single ended amps should not be a problem. If your speakers are rated lower than 90dB you may want the Tori Jr or Tori Mk5.
If you can get your speakers to hit 100dB or better in a small to medium sized room you are doing very well. To calculate how loud your speakers can go the SPL rating is at 1 watt at 1 meter. Every time you double your wattage the decibels increase 3dB. That will give you how loud it is 1 meter from the speakers. You also lose 3dB for every meter from that point. So if you are sitting 3 meters (about 12 feet) from your speakers you are losing 6dB. This will get you very close to a calibrated decibel meter. Sound can be affected by temperature, humidity and room acoustics.
Thinking of swapping my SEUFO2 order on queue with the Torii now ..😆
haha. 😆😆
Thanks for great review! I wonder if you had a chance to connect directly to DAC and use the volume knobs on TORII because more likely that's how I will use it.
Thomas…You are poignant and you make me smile. Great combination. Brilliant review. Have you ever owned/reviewed Mac MC30 mono blocks? I have a pair, sequential SNs from 1954 (my birth year), I’ve owned since 1986, purchased from the original owner. They sound luxurious with my Klipsch Heresy IIIs.
I have never heard MC30, hopefully one day. Thanks and congrats.
One rather buy a transistor based amp rather than new tube sound. What’s the purpose of new tube sound? To be near to transistor based amp sound
Well, it is for the holographic soundtage. At the same price point as transistor, tubes should give you more air but usually transistors wins in the dynamics and noise floor.
Thomas & Stereo Yes, realised this while listening to ARS VSI75. Vocals were airy and bass was say, loose. Certain instruments it played better than say, stellar s400.
Excellent video. I’ve got a 25th anniversary UFO on order but I may have to consider the TORII instead…
Depends if you are buying it as a main amp or secondary amp, secondary amp UFO, that amp is so sweet sounding.
@@ThomasAndStereo What is the difference between a main amp versus secondary amp? I mean it either works, or it doesn't. I just want to understand - thanks.
Primary amp = Jack of all trades, IE, workhorse. Secondary amp = specialized for refinement, IE, great for jazz, vocals, things that don't need a lot of balls.
@@anitasanger OK, so they both work, but just that one is a little better with certain types of music. Thank you for explaining it.
@@jackbaker9023 you're welcome. The MKV has 7x the power of the UFO. This results in better bass control, a meatier low end, and the ability to push speakers louder. The UFO seems to power speakers much louder than other amps in its class, and is very good for lower / near field listening. Both great amps.
Hey Thomas - When you flashed a snapshot of your collection of modern tube amps, I saw an Audio Research VM110, (I think) - have you ever performed one of your reviews of this amp? I’d love to get your typically detailed and well thought out review on it, please. Your review on the Decware was enjoyable. Thanks for a great review.
That is the VS110 and Mr. Kanta has teh VS115. Great amp but I never reviewed it, I like it because it sounds like a tube amp, lots of air.
Hello Thomas I am excited to hear the reviews of your personally designed equipment. Thomas I have fell in love with the sweet midrange of the 300b tube. Going against your recommendation I did install Sophia Princess 300b tubes in my Reisong amp. I did not view your video first. Some time has passed since you first reviewed that amp has anything changed in your tube recommendation if so please include in your reply. Also include your initial recommendation please
How was it the Revising A50 and Sophia tubes? Mr Kanta has been living with my Reisong A50 now so I don't have any updates BUT I am getting a Wilsenton 300b amp in for review
@@ThomasAndStereo I heard a softer more detailed middle which I liked however I detected no noticeable improvement in the bass. I look forward to your review of the Willsenton which I've also pur
1700+ on the waiting list now.
Prima Luna claims their lower plate voltages extend tube life considerably.Surprised you liked the el34s so much vs kt88 Thomas.Kevin Deal prefers el34s in Prima Luna amps.Will have to try some.I understand Russian tubes will soon be available again.
I usually prefer KT88 over EL34 but this amp is optimized more for EL34 so that is why with this amp, EL34 sounded way better as well as 6L6 and KL66.
I liked the relationship you pointed out between how much we spend on our gear, and our actual listing environment. Is it worth spending the extra money on higher end gear, when our listing space is what it is? How much can we expect to hear into the nuances without proper room treatments? Enjoyed the video! Looking forward to seeing your amp. Cheers
When you're starting to spend serious money on your components, that *should* mean that you are also much more serious about the performance that you are getting out of your system!
Suddenly treating the listening room acoustically starts to make alot of sense in terms of the costs & hassles to do it.
It doesn't need to be terribly expensive to do, unless you are REALLY concerned about the effect on the room aesthetically. The best products are those that use compressed fibreglas, such as ones made by Owens-Corning in the USA. Readily available from anywhere from Home Hardware (the Building Department, that is) to Home Depot. The larger the panel the better; or at least the more wall area you can cover, the better. Ignore any nonsense that you have heard or read about this "Live End, Dead End" nonsense requirements that some of the so-called "Professional Audio" Studio types🤓 mention.
You want BOTH ends of your room to be Dead Ends. Reflections come from BOTH ends, after all!🤪
Supposedly some people find really dead rooms unnerving somehow; it seems so supposedly unnatural (well, it is) & disconcerting & therefore unpleasant.
I certainly never found that to be the case. I actually found it really, really 😎!
Suddenly your voice drops one full octave & sounds completely different to you, & you realise just how much acoustic "junk"; echoes, weird reverberations & sonic distortion; you experience in almost every other environment in your day to day life.
Using particularly low distortion Dipoles (Electrostatic speakers like QUAD, Martin-Logan, & Final; as opposed to the "Snap! Blurrr!" dirt of a Planar Magnetic like Magnepans), the improvement for me was ABSOLUTELY STUNNING.
It was SO dramatic that if I compared my QUAD/Custom Triode amp setup in the room before treatment, to a "joke" setup consisting of an old Rotel receiver & a pair of (parts upgraded) Radio Shack Minimus 7's, it was hard to prefer one over the other...the scratchy old Rotel & the normally bass-shy & shouty little Minimus 7's sounded SMOOTHER & SWEETER 🤯 in many ways than the otherwise infinitely more refined QUAD setup did!😳
And putting the QUAD's & the Valve amps & my turntable into that room was THE BEST upgrade I ever made! At first, dynamics seemed to suffer; it was like I lost 6db of speaker efficiency, ESPECIALLY in the high frequencies.
I probably did! So having to push the amp & the speakers that much harder made them sound a little worse than before... until I realised that if I turned the volume control back down to where it was normally in the untreated room(s), I was STILL hearing VASTLY more low-level detail than ever before!🤩
Not to mention the HUGE gains in sweetness & refinement, and, as a result, my listening pleasure increased at least ten-fold over what it had been before.
HUGE reduction in Listening Fatigue, for example; & a much enhanced connection to the music because I could now "hear into" recordings to the point where the Producer's intentions for the levels & mixing he chose suddenly made sense.
Often to the extent of suddenly understanding & appreciating recordings that I had previously considered a dumpster fire started by a bunch of clueless long-hair drug addicts, & then hearing the intention & the artistry in their work even if the end result was still alot less than sonically optimal.
So alot of the recordings I either didn't like or had trouble connecting with became exciting & brought great pleasure where little or even none had been obtained before!😍
I certainly spent alot less than a grand to do it; in a room in a new apartment that made my system sound so bad before I treated it that I literally cried when I first played it in there! And then suddenly it was transformed into THE BEST room I ever had!!! It was a pretty small room, maybe 10'x15' with lath & plaster walls.
Certainly THE worst rooms I've experienced are those in typical modern construction: non-supporting walls of steel channel frame🤢 supporting big sheets of drywall🤮 that literally flex like some loudspeaker passive radiators from Hell.😱😱😱
The best test is to clap your hands together once & hard each time you stop in one spot in the room. Corners are especially telling; always check them out thoroughly! If you hear your "clap!" linger, & ESPECIALLY if you hear a flanging effect to the echo when you stand in the corner(s), (kind of like a "Bzow!" sound), then your room is marked for AUDIO DEATH!👺🙉🙉🙉👹
So to whatever extent, aesthetically, financially, or physically you can add PASSIVE sound absorption to your listening room: JUST DO IT.
And don't get hung up on the RIPOFF "Audiophoole" sound treatment panels.
If you are even the least bit handy (I wasn't!), your local building center sells every bit as good & often alot better sound absorption products at a fraction of the price.
Happy listening!
@@joerosen5464 Hey Joe, great reply! My two rooms aren’t treated. Neither one is terrible, based on the clap test. But I’m going to treat one of my rooms as I don’t need any input from the wife. I’m thinking some panels on the front and back walls as well as the sides. It’s currently carpeted. I’ll do that stuff first, and see how it sounds before looking into the ceiling. I know room treatments will make a big difference and your testimony confirms it. You’ve got me motivated to get some treatments in there. What type of panels did you get, how big were they, and how did you attach them to the walls?
✌️
@@BobTrainor I got a consignment of Owens-Corning 1" panels that were 4'x8' in size; mostly previously removed from metal frames that allowed them to be used as back-to-back freestanding units as office dividers.
These were really popular in the 1980's to construct cheap, quick, & dirty little office "cubicles" for businesses that rented short term office space & wanted the versatility of changing the size, shape, & location of this new "instant office" on a moment's whim.
It also allowed these cheapskates to be able to take these panels with them when they moved to a new empty space.
In my case, it was a move that freed up a rather large number of these orange-coloured wool-covered sheets of compressed fibreglas.
They couldn't/didn't want to use them again as they had cutouts made into them for computer & phone jacks (remember those?🧓🕸️). Since these openings were the same size & located in the same location as duplex power outlets are in any given "normal" home or business, I didn't concern myself with them as they were both too small & too close to the floor to do much acoustic or even visual harm.
A friend had a little recycling & scrap disposal business going, & his customer had called him to take the things away to just dispose of them. Instead, he decided to try to make a few extra bucks on top by offering them to me at $12 a pop. I remember buying about 16 of them to fully treat all 4 walls of the room; IOW, I actually spent under $200!
The frames had unfortunately been "diverted" elsewhere, so I with due disregard for my landlord I just used drywall screws around the perimeter of each panel about 2' apart.
Since the apartments would be repainted after each tenant vacated, all the superintendent asked of me was to take them away with me & patch up all the holes with filler when my time was up!
Even if I'd have had the frames, I would have been faced with two (relatively minor) problems:
1) With a substantially less rigid mounting of the panels, there's the possibility of some slight but probably a bit weird sonically deleterious interactions between them & the sound they'd be absorbing.
Not much of an issue in an already far noisier & equally far less critical environment like a busy call center; plus the frames were designed to lock into each other, thus improving their rigidity in typical Office-Type use.
2) The room was already almost too small; especially since my speakers were true dipole radiators, being QUAD's, & therefore needing to be some way away from any adjacent walls to sound their best. The frames would have cost me about 6" on each side of the room; thus reducing the effective room size by a foot in each direction.
Being the type of rabid no-compromise Audiophile that I am, function trumps form EVERY time!
Not that I don't like eye candy any less than anyone else (I used Bang & Olufsen turntables for many years before graduating to a Michell Gyrodec LE (that's the black anodised & gold-plated version, if you didn't know!) & a Nakamichi 700 & Pioneer RT-909 tape decks at various times), but between being emotionally secure enough & sonically discerning enough not to require the admiration of my purchases by anyone else (not even girlfriends over the years😱👹), I do my best listening in the dark ANYWAY.
Like most of you Audiophiles do as well, right?
🤗