Heads Up! The example I give in this video references 0dB, which is 0dBVU (not dBFS, like Yamaha mixing consoles). For most analog mixers or any board that utilizes the dBVU scale, you'll want to end up around 0 dB on the meter for inputs like guitar or keyboard and somewhere around +3 dB for drums. (Remember: 0 dBVU means you still have headroom!) If your console utilizes dBFS metering, the equivalent that guitar or keyboard channel would hover somewhere around ~18-20 dB.
I can see this would be a good way to set the gain structure during sound check. But for my case, in small clubs, I don't get a sound check that's all that useful because nothing is done gig volume. So I have to do the gain staging while performing. That's quite difficult and I suspect a lot of bands have similar experiences.
My band is getting ready to do it's first public gig and we are using an Allen-Heath PA28 mixing console. First question has to do with keyboards. I have a Yamaha P225 digital piano with weighted/ velocity keys. The local volume control will effect the gain setting, along with how hard the keys are hit. Should I set the piano volume midway as a starting point and should I hit the keys hard when adjusting the mixer gain? Second question is which instrument do you start with first when setting gain? Should it be the drums then adjust all other instruments relative to them?
Great questions! Seems like you have a good sense of how gain structure works, which is the most important thing. If you understand that each piece of the signal chain is affecting the overall gain structure, you’re 95% there. So with the keys, setting the volume at halfway is definitely fine, as long as the keys player understands that turning up the volume on the keyboard will affect everything after that, including the monitors and FOH. Sometimes you want a little wiggle room to be able to do that! However, many times I’ll just have the keyboard player just turn the volume all the way up so there isn’t an unexpected boost midway through the show. Another thing to consider is that if you’re using an active DI for the keys a hot line level signal can clip it, and might just be too hot in general (which is why I generally use passive DIs in live settings). Anyway, yes you should generally set the gain while you are hitting the keys (or any instrument) at max volume. If you set the gain with a quieter sound and it gets way louder during the show, it’s tricky to adjust the gain since it’ll affect the monitors too. Starting with drums is pretty common, and that’s what I generally do. Kind of depends on the style of music. If it’s, like, a jazz combo, the drums aren’t driving the mix like a rock band, so it’s a little different. But when the drums are loud and solid, starting there makes sense, and everything else can be set relative to that. Hope this all helps! Just hit me back if you have questions
So I was taught to set gain prefader off? That the fader was just channel volume- but I have been getting terrible feedback ( monitors have been running off 3/4 aux - same mix as foh- seperate master volume- my Allen Heath was not as “ hot” as the Yamaha- seems I’m barely Turing up the faders and master to get to the appropriate volume level ( like 3). This seems awkward to me/ as other videos show gain settings with master and faders set to unity-I have never set my gain this method - but thinking it might be the way to go- hmmmm- confused
@@theproductionacademy No there's not. The gain knob is located besides the inputs and outputs. I looked on its manual but there is no info about there either. Its a Yamaha E473
Guess it depends on how loud you listening that the background sound is distracting. Am listening at a certain level on my samsung tablet and its like am hardly hearing the background sound😂😂
This is Unity Gain, which is where the gain stage is theoretically not boosting OR attenuating gain. Running everything at Unity is ideal for live sound systems - you don't want to boost 10dB at one gain stage then cut 10dB at the next gain stage.
Turn the channel fader and main volume to 0db/Unity without the speakers turned on and turn the gain knob up on the channel until the loudest noise you are going to make hits 0db on the VU meter and just flicks into the yellow on the very loudest noise. Done. No need to hear anything. If gain staging a mic I normally shout loud 1,2's into the mic at very close range and I find I then have a good amount of headroom for the loud rooms I play.
Question, I was trained to put the fader at unity, then adjust the gain till the signal “fills the room.” But upon reading my user guide (an Allen & Heath Mix Wizard 16:2,) it tells me to do that with a headphone. I found your video trying to learn why. So why choose the headphones over the room? (When it comes to setting the initial gain coming into the mixer, assuming just a straight mic going into the channel.)
Because a Variable that isn't assumed in your equation is the SPL level of your speaker, and your rooms characteristics. It's possible to have Speakers that are way louder than you need for a space, or way quiter. The best place to compensate for this is on the Main LR Master fader. Setting your Gain staging the way the video presents, will allow all the tools like Compression, Gating, FX, Etc., to have a solid enough input signal to work properly. Gain staging is inportant for more things than just volume.
When I'm setting Levels and Gain staging a system, I will use a Reference track that I know the volume levels for. I know How certain songs should feel in loudness when played in a well tune room, So at Unity volume on the fader with the levels just peaking into the yellow, it should feel relatively similar in a larger scale.
That's some good stuff. I'll try out gain staging off the headphones now, and I'll have to dive into SPL and figure out how it works and applies to my live sound situation. Thank you@@ArtificialBangers
Yeah, but it’s gonna affect the effects chain if the gain is too low… and possibly introduce floor noise. Whatever works tho! Still trying to figure it out
Heads Up! The example I give in this video references 0dB, which is 0dBVU (not dBFS, like Yamaha mixing consoles).
For most analog mixers or any board that utilizes the dBVU scale, you'll want to end up around 0 dB on the meter for inputs like guitar or keyboard and somewhere around +3 dB for drums. (Remember: 0 dBVU means you still have headroom!) If your console utilizes dBFS metering, the equivalent that guitar or keyboard channel would hover somewhere around ~18-20 dB.
it means somewhere around 15db for drum? Thank you for this additional info
This video actually helped me get so much more out of my PA system. Awesome help!
really glad to hear it!
Thank you, I appreciate the information. I had to stop halfway through for a rest from the background music.
Very helpful, thanks for the explanation.
I can see this would be a good way to set the gain structure during sound check. But for my case, in small clubs, I don't get a sound check that's all that useful because nothing is done gig volume. So I have to do the gain staging while performing. That's quite difficult and I suspect a lot of bands have similar experiences.
My band is getting ready to do it's first public gig and we are using an Allen-Heath PA28 mixing console. First question has to do with keyboards. I have a Yamaha P225 digital piano with weighted/ velocity keys. The local volume control will effect the gain setting, along with how hard the keys are hit. Should I set the piano volume midway as a starting point and should I hit the keys hard when adjusting the mixer gain? Second question is which instrument do you start with first when setting gain? Should it be the drums then adjust all other instruments relative to them?
Great questions! Seems like you have a good sense of how gain structure works, which is the most important thing. If you understand that each piece of the signal chain is affecting the overall gain structure, you’re 95% there.
So with the keys, setting the volume at halfway is definitely fine, as long as the keys player understands that turning up the volume on the keyboard will affect everything after that, including the monitors and FOH. Sometimes you want a little wiggle room to be able to do that! However, many times I’ll just have the keyboard player just turn the volume all the way up so there isn’t an unexpected boost midway through the show.
Another thing to consider is that if you’re using an active DI for the keys a hot line level signal can clip it, and might just be too hot in general (which is why I generally use passive DIs in live settings).
Anyway, yes you should generally set the gain while you are hitting the keys (or any instrument) at max volume. If you set the gain with a quieter sound and it gets way louder during the show, it’s tricky to adjust the gain since it’ll affect the monitors too.
Starting with drums is pretty common, and that’s what I generally do. Kind of depends on the style of music. If it’s, like, a jazz combo, the drums aren’t driving the mix like a rock band, so it’s a little different. But when the drums are loud and solid, starting there makes sense, and everything else can be set relative to that.
Hope this all helps! Just hit me back if you have questions
So I was taught to set gain prefader off? That the fader was just channel volume- but I have been getting terrible feedback ( monitors have been running off 3/4 aux - same mix as foh- seperate master volume- my Allen Heath was not as “ hot” as the Yamaha- seems I’m barely Turing up the faders and master to get to the appropriate volume level ( like 3). This seems awkward to me/ as other videos show gain settings with master and faders set to unity-I have never set my gain this method - but thinking it might be the way to go- hmmmm- confused
Question.
My keyboard has a gain knob. What should I do about it?
depends on the keyboard. are there volume numbers? like 1-10?
@@theproductionacademy No there's not. The gain knob is located besides the inputs and outputs. I looked on its manual but there is no info about there either. Its a Yamaha E473
Good info with distracting background noise.
Not a fan of background music?
Next video should be about adjusting the mix on UA-cam videos 😉
Guess it depends on how loud you listening that the background sound is distracting. Am listening at a certain level on my samsung tablet and its like am hardly hearing the background sound😂😂
lol
Why do they say set your faders at 0 when gain staging
This is Unity Gain, which is where the gain stage is theoretically not boosting OR attenuating gain. Running everything at Unity is ideal for live sound systems - you don't want to boost 10dB at one gain stage then cut 10dB at the next gain stage.
How can I set gain if my mixer doesn't have a pfl/solo button?
What mixer do you have?
@@theproductionacademy it's a Leem pro 167A
@@BenjaminMabina Is there a "Cue" button? Or what buttons are there directly above the fader? Having trouble finding a picture of this mixer online.
Turn the channel fader and main volume to 0db/Unity without the speakers turned on and turn the gain knob up on the channel until the loudest noise you are going to make hits 0db on the VU meter and just flicks into the yellow on the very loudest noise. Done. No need to hear anything. If gain staging a mic I normally shout loud 1,2's into the mic at very close range and I find I then have a good amount of headroom for the loud rooms I play.
Get another mixer
Question, I was trained to put the fader at unity, then adjust the gain till the signal “fills the room.”
But upon reading my user guide (an Allen & Heath Mix Wizard 16:2,) it tells me to do that with a headphone.
I found your video trying to learn why.
So why choose the headphones over the room? (When it comes to setting the initial gain coming into the mixer, assuming just a straight mic going into the channel.)
Because a Variable that isn't assumed in your equation is the SPL level of your speaker, and your rooms characteristics. It's possible to have Speakers that are way louder than you need for a space, or way quiter. The best place to compensate for this is on the Main LR Master fader. Setting your Gain staging the way the video presents, will allow all the tools like Compression, Gating, FX, Etc., to have a solid enough input signal to work properly. Gain staging is inportant for more things than just volume.
When I'm setting Levels and Gain staging a system, I will use a Reference track that I know the volume levels for. I know How certain songs should feel in loudness when played in a well tune room, So at Unity volume on the fader with the levels just peaking into the yellow, it should feel relatively similar in a larger scale.
That's some good stuff. I'll try out gain staging off the headphones now, and I'll have to dive into SPL and figure out how it works and applies to my live sound situation. Thank you@@ArtificialBangers
Why is it that everyone who does these kinds of videos looks like a Dr. Seuss character. 😅
I haven't heard that one before but I'll take it as a compliment.
Kill the background
fader to 0
then adjust gain.
Yeah, but it’s gonna affect the effects chain if the gain is too low… and possibly introduce floor noise. Whatever works tho! Still trying to figure it out