2. The Chopin Method: posture at the piano
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2022
- One of Chopin's teachings on piano posture is that the elbows should never become rigid. The elbows should hang from the shoulders free and flexible while the fingers do the walking.
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#chopin #piano #classical music #piano technique #keyboard#pianokeyboard #tutorial #tips #piano classes #piano lessons #classical piano #posture
Everything that is said here is true and so, vital for anyone wishing to play the piano well. What a valuable presentation.
Thank you Phillip! More coming!
These videos are incredibly insightful and well put together! Thank you so much for this series!
That is very kind. Thanks Reuven!
I totally agree with you! Thank you so much for sharing all this knowlegde! ❤
Thank you a lot! I'm keeping an eye out for your content. Really important stuff!
I'm fascinated by these videos. I took lessons from age 10 to 19 and then played causally throughout my 20s as I focused on school and work, but I am now trying to reclaim and improve my piano skills. I am hoping to take lessons again, but in the meantime I am internalizing the insights in these videos.
I stumbled upon this tonight whilst nursing the beginning of a migraine. MIND BLOWN (and not from the migraine!). I am currently 58 years old. Took classical lessons from age 6 to 16 (and then from 16 onward began playing other types like jazz, rock, country, etc.).
I am now focusing purely on hymns of God and my own compositions, both on solo piano.
I am hoping that by concentrating on what is being taught here, that I can basically continue to play as long as possible without finger, hand, back pain, etc.
My two absolute favorite composers when I was receiving classical training were:
1. Chopin.
2. Debussy.
I was TOTALLY taught wrong by focusing on the C major scale and having to have curved fingers AT ALL TIMES (my first teacher would rap my knuckles with a pencil if they weren't curved). I've forgiven him! He just didn't know!
Anyway...thank you SO much for taking the time to put all of this together. Dare I say I will possibly be grabbing some Chopin exercises and giving them a go (will be fun after all these years!).
Can't WAIT to try some of these ideas!
Also...I will be focusing on my posture and sitting position. As a software developer, I have been indoctrinated (in a good way) to always sit as ergonomically as possible...so that's a good start!
Thanks again!
Thank you for your comment Kevin. Chopin's approach plus modern physiology brings a new venue to learn piano well, at any age. A learning where the student is aware of what the body/hand/finger can and cannot do, and make progress accordingly. Playing the piano is truly complex if you compare the task to any other human physical endeavour.The good news is that with sufficient motivation, dedication and physiology awareness, a majority of people can learn to play the piano well!
I LOVE it that 8:18 you prefer to Chopin as "the Master". Indeed he is the TRUE master of the piano. Awesome content!
Thank you!
Que felicidade encontrar esse canal. Excelente conteúdo ❤. Que venham vários vídeos 🎉
Very good, but with questions towards the end. Unfortunately, Chopin cannot answer himself. Total relaxation of body and mind - yes - it is the basis for skillful action, not only at the piano. To develop a skill, it goes in cycles of rest (body and mind) and focused repeated action. Moving up the stair steps -- one vertical, the other horizontal, action and rest.
Excellent, learning and keep this way of playing with all body completely relaxed makes real difference. The distance from the keyboard, the height of the seat, the straigth back, the arms, the wrist, don't open the elbows, the right position of the hands, all together theese apparently not important things makes keyboard playing to another level. Are good even for an advanced player.
Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you for providing such priceless lessons, and we will support and encourage you.
Thank you! Will keep at it!
Extremely interesting video . Thank you !
this is amazing, thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is gold! Make more of these please
Thank you Thevincchi! It is encouraging to read messages like yours.
Awesome thanks
Merci beaucoup for this.
I thank you to share your knowledge, this will help me to improve in my piano playing !
Thank you so much ! 😍😍🥰🥰
Thank you very great presentation! I’ve really noticed Horowitz posture and how much is done without much body movements except on the really huge octaves chords hands always very close to keys body slightly lean forward just like your illustrations!
Some of this is simply intuitive. I started piano lessons when I was 8 years old. I had a freakishly strong and flexible back but no other upper-body muscle to speak of. Although I could already play a few things before lessons, I started at "the beginning" just like anyone. I don't recall ever straining for a note or having body tension [like I do now!] I did naturally understand that the fingertip does the work, and everything flows backward from there. My teacher did not teach me this. I thought of this as "having a good relationship to the key." No one taught me how to connect the notes together, I just understood from the start. I heard others "playing" piano and would wonder what on earth that noise was, only to read the title on the page when they were done and wonder how they could find all the right notes an still not make music... One of my Dad's friends and his wife heard me play {a rarity} and said, "Oh you play from the heart!" I wondered where else could it come from! Sadly, performing was just far too stressful and unbearable. I quit lessons at 10 years old. [Don't be sad, I wasn't really that good.] I do APPRECIATE music tremendously, though. It is a gift that proves that God loves us all, always.
[Sorry, I'm a long-winded INFJ...]
Interesting story. Children are ready to assimilate best practices as a natural tasks. Later in life, we tend to adopt physical postures that stretch muscles so badly that it makes it harder to go back to a more natural and healthy piano playing. But, it can be done! Thank you for your comment.
Mbti is not valid. Take the big 5.
Thank you for all the 💎. Knowledge is power. And also, glad piano came a bit natural and practice times are always fun i get angry if it’s interrupted. Ofcourse in a mature fashion.
Glad to know! That means that you are concentrated when studying, which is very much in line with Chopin's teachings. Knowledge, focus and will. Thank you for commenting.
Delightful!
Thank you!
Maravilloso❤
Thank you
You're welcome ABad!
Thanks for these videos. Personally I find the word ‘relaxation’ is quite misleading when talking about piano technique, as if we were totally relaxed we would fall off the piano bench. Telling someone to relax on top of poor posture can make things worse such as broken fulcrums. Even when standing up we need a certain degree of appropriate ‘muscle tone’ so we stay vertical and not collapse. Bones stack up to support us sit comfortably but muscles are for moving. Rather than thinking ‘relaxation’, I’ve found it more helpful to think of our muscles as staying ‘released’ and well ‘toned’, especially the forearm/hand/finger unit. This level of muscle tone is the same as when doing every day activities we don’t think too much about, for example, brushing our teeth.
Thank you for your comment, Andrew. In a delicate pursuit such as playing the piano well, muscle tightness and incorrect posture go together. One is a consequence of the other. For certain, there is neuromuscular activity in any human living circumstance, but consider that correct sitting posture requires, as shown in the video, the lowest level of muscle activity together with laying down (Ref: doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0219372). So yes, you can say "relax" to a piano student, addressing of course the corresponding muscle. And yes, we can brush our teeth full of tension and blocked articulations. We can even walk incorrectly, which as you know, brings all sorts of discomfort now and in later life. Happy holidays!
Ver knowledgeable.
How you approach a note is how it will sound. Dynamics are essentially a question of sonority, that the sound should carry.
Your voice gives me Liam Neeson vibes from Taken.
Great series. Thanks for you work!!
Thank you!
Very interesting video.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks!
Mon examen de piano est dans 4 jours. Psychologiquement cette vidéo m'a aidé, merci beaucoup ❤️❤️
Et bien que je suis content! Bon chance.
Thank you!
How many more videos do you plan to record in the future?
Is this method going to be only about mechanics of playing or are you also going to talk about Chopin's approach to playing his pieces?
I've heard that his students told he knew how to present his complex pieces in quite simple terms.
You are welcomed Bass Man! Yes, we will be launching a series of Sessions to approach piano learning from a biomechanical view. Always considering musical aspects as well. In fact, Chopin's technique and his music approach are fairly interlinked. His études are a magnificent example. All his works! To achieve the basis for doing good music, Chopin wanted pianists to play according to his rules. And he is right.
I don't even play piano...yet, this stuff translates to classical guitar. Every finger has a personality, it is better to understand this rather than conform them.
have you started??
Me too, my problem was the weakness to play piano. I don't play anymore because I've CMT1a
thankyou for you kind sharing , this is really inspiring and made me more concentrating on the training of finger muscles and posture afterwards , the power while playing the piece really increased a lot , thankyou again 😉
Profeesor , I got a question on how to train my second , third and fourth finger much more indepently ? :(
Thank you Miss Karen! I plan to do a series of videos on finger independence drills. Just one tip: observe the fingers that are not playing the key when practising slowly. What are they doing? Are they tense? Which ones? Why?
@@thechopinmethod7257 seems they will move together , while the second finger move , the third and fourth will also move 🫣🫣
the video animation implies that the third finger is pressing g# but the sound is an a# (great video just stuck out to me when watching)
チャンネル登録しました。また投稿楽しみにしています。
Wonderful video. Wonder if you have/know some books recommendation to apply/learn this technic. That would be awesome ❤
Hello Juan Manuel. I would consult Jean Jacques Eigeldinger books on Chopin's sketches. Cheers!
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hello! i just wanted to say that i lvoe your videos and they cary some very valubale information ! but, can you please include some subtitles as well because i have some hard time understanding every word you're saying! with all due respect. thank you. keep up this great work.
I agree
Terribly sorry. I thought that the video translator would do. Because of design constraints, video 5 will not bring self-made subtitles either. For our next season, count on them. Thank you!
@@thechopinmethod7257 yes, I tried the subs of UA-cam but they were all wrong ! But thank you so much and I’m looking forward to your upcoming vids.
the floating head - all hail
i checked, and i think i have the identical hand of chopin, same posture , everything, and i also pick the note with the thumb with half-nail ,i saw all your videos and i checked, i hope to remain in history as he did
Thanks for the videos . I believe the strength of the body is definitely play an important part of playing the piano . All great pianists have very strong and thick hands and fingers . Am I wrong ?
Hi Dante. If well placed, the hand is mostly a bony structure that can hold immense pressure, force and weight. The motion of the fingers is mostly commanded by long and strong tendons that can also sustain strong forces. On the other hand, the piano is an instrument of high tactile sensitivity that requires more neuromuscular aptitude than strength to be well played. Again, all this related to classical music. Thank you for your question.
Amazing video, but please consider putting subtitles to reach more people, it doesn't need to be in multiple languages, but providing an English subtitle will help many viewers
Thank you Arthur! yes, I begun to add English subtitles for the session's series. Cheers!
Im in Brazil and i can read legends in spanish . Thanks for share this content . 🇧🇷@@thechopinmethod7257
Very interesting!
I was taught in a way that emphasized arm weight, but that might be because modern pianios might be heavier than the kind Chopin used?
Hi Kyrion. Modern pianos have indeed increased key inertia/weight. One reason to this may relate to what you suggest: XX century music is more percussive, metallic and audience oriented. For Chopin, the fingers had enough to say by themselves. If properly trained, they could flex down a the key with exquisite control. Ultimately, a piano hammer control. The elbows and the rest of the body completely flexible and resting on a skeletal support. Consistent with this, playing and enjoying playing can go on for hours and hours.
I wonder if Hanon wrote a disclaimer as a preface to his book of exercises?
;-) In Hanon's time people were not suing each other like today! Still, I think here should have had a disclaimer written in bold red.
Hanon is very good *Only* with proper techniques guidance from Chopin.
What isn´t mentioned is - build. Such a thing as "rotator cuff syndrome" - a too tight rotator cuff (four strong, short muscles, that controls the shoulder joint movement) is not at all unusual and can make it very painful to keep hands parallel to keys. Today it is successfully solved by removing a bit of the knuckles in the joint.
Are there any piano teachers who teach this method? I injured both my arms from playing and I wish I was taught this method
It is good to bring biomechanics into piano learning, but it's also rather new and scarce. If you need technical feedback please DM us. Thank you!
We should address the uncomfortable shape of the "standard" piano keys as well.
May I ask what the short excerpt at the start is from? It sounds like a polish song.
Dear Goodsire. Sorry about the very late answer. The piece is called Lascia la Spina de Händel. It is an aria da capo used in several of his works. Cheers!
its haendel bro
@@thechopinmethod7257 thank you for the response. I found it from some other context recently so I wasn’t waiting long without an answer. It’s quite a beautiful aria, but not polish like I thought!
Haendel: Lascia ch’io pianga -aria from the opera Julius Caesar
great french accent !
Merci M. Sushi. Mais je ne suis pas français!
@@thechopinmethod7257 pas de soucis ! as a French I tell you ;))
Can anyone tell the name of that opera music in intro ? Please
Hello Patrick. It is an aria da capo de Händel called Lascia la spina. Cheers!
How does this method work on modern instruments? Chopin's piano was different than the modern concert grand piano.
Hi David. For classical and romantic music, the likes of Cortot, Kempff, Rubinstein and today's Trifonov or Liu are examples of this method on modern pianos. Modern pianos bring get great percussion power and sound for performances in concert halls. What pianists don't get is the possibility to make and communicate singing nuances and the finest dynamics. Alàs, with modern pianos (double escapement, heavy action heavy hammers, etc) pianists may not even know what they could achieve in sound detail.
Is this also economy of motion?
Placing the intensity into the fingers
instead of body movement?
If he had little energy from
cystic fibrosis this makes sense.
Hi DE Graham. Upon studying finger anatomy and physiology, one surely arrives at the conclusion that the fingers are the best anatomical structures to deal with the piano keyboard. They are movable, agile, bony and full of "strings" (tendons and ligaments) that control their movement from fast muscles. Why would anyone use other parts of the body to play XIX century music? Best!
@@thechopinmethod7257
Dude.
How could you own this video
and not answer my question?
Are you a technician or
symphony pianist?
He talks about body and arm placement impact on finger control.
What is the name of the beautiful song playing in the beginning?
Hello Robyn. It is Händel Lascia la Scpina, Aria di capo. Cheers!
@@thechopinmethod7257 Thank you. 🙂
I have scoliosis 12°, can you answer what is the implication of that in piano?
Hello Lua. As all good intended things seem to converge at some point, Chopin was very much against sitting at the piano for too long (no more than 3 hours a day, made of 30-45 min chunks, and long breaks doing something nice and different. This is the best approach to learn, assimilate and take care of the body. Cheers!
Hello Sir. This information is worthy of a book publication. Please keep us in the loop if this will be the case.
Thank you
The book is already out. It's called "On Piano Playing" by György Sandòr.
Alexander technique?
Since a lot of this is based around anatomical and physiological terms, I'm wondering if someone could help me understand in anatomical terminology... which exact joint and muscle action(s) are involved in "letting the elbows hang free" ?
I'm figuring upper traps needs to be completely relaxed to let the scapula depress... but what else?
Are biceps and triceps and other elbow/shoulder muscles completely relaxed? Do any of them need to have active contraction to achieve this cue of elbow position?
And with "elbows close to the body at all times" - does this mean actively adducting and rotating the GH joint to achieve this?
TIA!
Hi Hobbist! We usually have plenty of muscle activity all the time, even when sleeping. The act of reaching a piano keyboard with our hands also need the acting of several muscles (bracchioradial, forearm pronators, wrist extensor muscles, etc.). One thing is clear though: the elbows must hang free of any blockage or subsidiary flexion-extension. By subsidiary I mean using the forearm up and down to compensate for lack of finger articulation. This is unbelievable common (specially for fingers 1 and 5), to the point where pianists loose all fine control.
Thanks so much for all the info. In reference to 6:07, how does a pianist play on the higher end of the keyboard WITHOUT distancing their elbows from the body and without leaning?@@thechopinmethod7257
@@Hobbyist387 Hi Hobbist! At the extreme of the keyboard the elbows do distance themselves from the body, but always passively. It is the action of the fingers walking over the keys which lead the rest of our anatomy to react. Cheers!
Should you still rely on the weight of the arm when playing chords? I find it awkward.
Hello SophySymphony. At least in Chopin music, the weight of the arm could be used when playing fortissimo chords (e.g. piano concertos). Other than that, there is no need. Here i am making a difference between arm and forearm. Thank you for asking.
If I allow my elbow to hang at my side, I cannot play at the outer edges efficiently. I need to lean at least a little.
Indeed. Playing at the extremes of the keyboard is the only instance where elbows distance themselves from the body. Passively, always. Thanks for your comment.
@@thechopinmethod7257 You're welcome, and thank you for your hard work. I just recommended your channel to someone today. I hope he watches it.
Merry Christmas!
One part that isn't clear: you talk about how important hip movement is, but a few minutes later you give this testimony of someone saying Chopin would be perfectly immobile at all times. So which is the right way?
Hi Vincent. Thank you for asking. Sorry if this caused confusion in the message. The hip movement seen in the video is a drill to check for correct body support on the sitting bones while practising piano. Awareness of these sitting bones is important in piano playing. Chopin's technical imperative can be described as the easiest way for maximum finger control. His technique ideas are deeply intertwined with what he expected his music to sound. Fingers first, everything else follows. No need for dancing while playing. Regards!
Wonderful videos. Two questions: do you have the ability to edit the captions? Wow often, Chopin is being misinterpreted as Japan, and there's a couple of other errors.
Secondly, this is an excellent approach, but as pointed out: we should be teaching children to use the B major scale as the basic fundamental. Do you have an approach that's more simplified for children? My 8 year old started playing 6 months ago and always fears using the black keys (a fact I'm sure her piano teacher will address eventually, but it seems to run contrary to Chopin's method of preferencing and prioritising the black key finger positions)
Thank you very much, Lincoln. I will check the captions! So, is the Chopin method appropriate to teach children? Absolutely yes, but with careful adaptations. First, a proportioned keyboard should be used in small children. Humans are born with considerable constraints to play piano, both at a neuromuscular and a biomechanical perspective. Unlike language development, playing piano is not prewired in our brains. Rather the opposite: in its native state, the "typing" cortex network prefers living with coordinated fingers. Add to this the fact that yes, black keys are intimidating. Chopin called them "the high" notes, an important observation that I will address in a future video. Here, I would like to stress that the Chopin method can be considered the natural path for playing piano, which doesn't mean that playing piano is natural. So yes, there is a steep learning curve to assimilate a natural piano hand. We tend to place too much responsibility in our vision senses when learning to walk over the keys. New research on haptic and kynesthetic learning/memory is coming!
Wonderful! Really speaks to me as I am having some pains a bit all over...Mid Back and tip of fingers especially. Need to rework my technique but its hard to get good information. Any suggestions for resources that go deeper into his method? (Books, videos, teachers, etc). Thank you and please keep up the great work!
Thank you Petey Pablo! Please DM for references on the subject. Best!
Also keep in mind that playing relax can be express as using the less force you can and the exact weight you need.
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Why are you a head floating in a dark space? Super creepy. But remarkable insight, very helpful!
😆😆😆🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
Sheesh that disclaimer in the beginning is so serious. It's just a piano!!! I doubt my 100$ cheap Casio digital piano is going to ruin my body if I play an hour a day.
You’re an idiot. Stop you’re embarrassing yourself.
You wouldn't believe how many pianists suffer from carpal tunnel, thumb tendon and upper wrist pain. Some of these illnesses can be quite disabling.
@@thechopinmethod7257 Yes, I had Carpal Tunnel inflammation . My posture at the piano was very poor. My neck suffered, and my arms were very painful. I can trace it back to a particular piano teacher.
@JianCai_Beeth