@@venomgeekmedia9886 Something I never understood about the start of the Dominion War. At DS9 they lost 50 ships destroyed, plus unknown number in various degrees of damage. The Federation/Klingon task force destroyed one of their major shipyards including the defending forces. So how does the early months of the war go so badly for the alpha quadrant powers?
After watching this....wow. Just wow. Kinda reminded me of the sea battles in the Pacific right after the start of WW2. When the Americans,Brits,and Dutch warships were trying to fight the Japanese around java and all that. Loss after loss. Heroic last stands. He has a way with words and narrations.
@@MrGunlover12 And a ineffective command structure too. Lol I do wonder how things had gone if the American Admiral had been in charge instead of the Dutch one. Just because of the Dutchman indecisiveness.
_"If we lose the war in the __-air-__ stars we lose the war and we lose it quickly."_ The Battle of Tyra is quite reminiscent of the Battle of Cannae during the 2nd Punic War. The Carthaginians had invaded Cannae, Italy and in that battle, encircled the Roman forces there, wiping most of them out.
Yes, but Cannae the Romans had a massive numerical advantage, with it having been the single biggest army Rome had ever raised up to that point and would indeed be the largest they would raise until the creation of the full time professional Roman army and the standing Legions
Yes! This would have been an equally potent demoralizer for a "free, peace-loving people". The Vorta, didn't want to blast their way across a devastated federation. They wanted them to SEE the inevitability of defeat and make an "honorable peace/ virtual surrender".
The forces that completed the encirclement of the massive roman army at cannae were numidian cavalry and like hannibal had copied what the greeks did at marathon to win at cannae a roman general would copy this encirclement using the same numidian cavalry at zama. These tactics are usually copied or inspired by something that happened before.
It actually reminded me more of the battle of Carrhae where the Romans under Crassus attempted to push into Parthian territory but we're surrounded by a smaller Parthian cavalry army and we're forced to form a square formation while the Parthian continually pelted them with arrows.
I have news of the 7th fleet. Go on. Only 14 ships made it back to our lines. 14!! Out a 112!!!. We can’t keep take these kinds of losses sir, not if we expect to win this. Thank you doctor that will be all.
@@wedgeantillies66 yeah he wanted to surrender based on theoretical probability only. And yet, enter Garek which helped Sisko change the entire game. So much for theory and calculations. It didn’t account for the random ingenuity of rolling the dice on a high risk goal and actually landing all 10s.
@@danielramirez1529 On indeed he did in belief that he would by saving lives. Tahink is war isn't just statistics, it is bloody chaos, that than be influenced and shaped by bold decisive strokes and underhand measures. Like Garek and Sisko's game changing move of bringing the romulans into the war. As it was beginning of the snowball effect that would to expansion of the war and its eventually end,
I am not sure why people on think it was a federation fleet alone in this engagement. Klingon wings were part of the fleet. How else do they think Martin knew about it.
@@chrismarks4277Because you're mixing up fleets. The fleet that you see at the beginning of the season 6 opener that sisko and martok ships are part of is a totally different one from the seven fleet. Their fleet is probably remains of joint taskforce that destroyed Torres III. The federation personal mention the seven fleet exclusively, while their own fleet takes a break. Martok as a general knows about fleet deployments due to shared high command. General feeling is that initially apart from odd instances the various klingon and federation fleets fought independently, until operation return. As they defended their own borders and territory.
Hi Venom Geek Media 98, Omnoplea here. I just want to say what a fantastic job you've done of covering this conflict. This was one of Starfleet's most desperate hours, and one of the heaviest losses we've ever known in Star Trek. I have always wanted to expand upon the human drama in this battle; if you ever feel like revisiting this in more detail then don't hesitate to let me know.
I'm glad i was able to do it justice. your video was a great inspiration and is a huge part of the History of 'trek-tube' im just glad to have been able to add to that History. im glad you enjoyed :)
14:40 ; And the Hutet once more makes a dastardly strike. Compared to the little to no showing of it in Alpha/Beta canon there is. The amount of time that vessel has been presented on this channel has possibly given it a much more illustrious status in Star Trek as a whole.
An ambassador class heavy cruiser stands no chance against a monstrous hutet class especially with it's 6 heavy spiral wave disruptors smashing your shields and hull
Not what I had imagined for Seventh Fleet's disastrous battle...It is so much better!!! I loved the nuance and complexity you gave the state of affairs at this point in the war, so realistic in the best way! You repeat yourself a couple of times in the dialogue, but excellent work as usual. Solid video, thank you!
Bashir... I have news of the 7th fleet only 14 ships made it back 2 our lines Martok...14 out of 112 Bashir...we can't keep taking these kind of loses Sisko...hits a table & is very angry
When I saw the Federation in a defensive square formation I was like "Just go up! GO UP!" I realize it probably wouldn't be that simple but I thought it funny anyway.
Excellent video and a very believable response to the Dominion invasion, with needing more ships as quick as possible. Using near retired veterans to command them. Gripping, if tragic story.
The one thing Star Trek and the space battles miss is they're always on a 2D plane really in space you'd be fighting on a 3D plane vertically horizontally etc
12:34 Although Starfleet is outnumbered they could get local superiority by moving all of their reserves in the center and weaken is 2nd line moving to attack the 3 Jem Hadar cruisers from the point where they meet the Cardassian line. If they could quickly destroy or disable those ships before the Dominion reinforced the area it would create a gap allowing ships to escape and with Starfleet vessels typically having superior warp speed more might have survived.
Oh my word, that was a fantastically awesome and brilliantly stunning video. Explaining just how the federation gots his ass handed to it so disastrously at the battle of Trye. Which is probably the Dominion's most decisive and notable victory of the first six months. Have to say that while watching it, showcases what one can do when you have the enemy's plan drop squarely in your lap and used it to destroy them utterly. Unlike say Mcclellan at Antietam or Von Rundstedt during Operation Market Garden. Though of course it had to be Cardassian hubris and desire for glory, that let those 14 ships slip away to fight another day. Though have to wonder if without said plan falling into Dominion hands, would the federation have pulled off a victory or still got beat.
an interesting question... if Operation Return was anything to go by, Operation Macedon was simply too small. this is not a war in which one wins with a hundred ships, but Hundreds of ships.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 True, but the elite Dominion forces would be facing off against the anti-borg task forces or at the top of the offensive drive. The Feds didn't know the Hutet was there. If the Hutet WASN'T there, and the Dominion hadn't known of the attack, the encircled ships ( at the starbases) could have escaped. They would fight a running battle all the way back to safety but only small Dominion units could engage as they arrived. Most would be too far off to catch up.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Indeed and agree as the battle of Sector 001 and borders wars were last time starfleet could get away with winning with fleets of a hundred ships or less. As operation return was supposed to be a massive fleet of 900-1200 ships if they all be gathered in time and suspect that fleet that destroyed Torres III being a fleet of several hundred strong. Dominion war was a total war and had to be fought as such on mass with all resources and massive fleets.
The most negligent point of this disaster was not having prepared to purge the courier's computers if in danger of capture. Only Starfleet had such poor operational security.
@@GoddessTier Oh indeed and starfleet, more than paid the penalty for not properly having measures at hand to prevent vital information falling into the enemies hands, apart from self destruct. In case of imminent capture, cascade virus's should have been in place and deployed to prevent any usage or gaining of information by the enemy. Like how Sisko disabled DS9 at end of season five.
Degret: *ITS A TRAP!!!* Also, I don't know if this was intentional, but the Andorian Admiral, B'ran, well, the word Buran is Russian for Snowstorm, making it a rather fitting name for an Andorian
Great video, the idea of fleets being formed out of older ships and under the command of cardasian war veterans for admirals to command against mostly cardasian enemies. unfortunately I wasn't able be there for the premier but I still enjoyed it
Starfleet consisted of about 8,000 ships at this time, 2,000 of them capital ships! There were over forty fleets then, but none of them organized as a battle-experienced unit. One warning signal should have been Wolf 359, where 39 ships of the 1st Fleet were destroyed nearly immediately. Only 600 ships Federation-wide? No.
Its cool to hear about some of the planets that star trek fans have heard mentiomed and many that we have seen as well like oniaka was mentioned from descent episode and el adril was mentioned in another video.
3:24? Wait, Starfleet only had 600 ships at this time? I could’ve sworn it was at least a thousand, maybe even several thousand. Wasn’t the fleet during operation return just over a thousand ships? There’s no way Starfleet would send every single ship in their fleet to the flotilla and leave the rest of their space unguarded.
The Starfleet force deployed for Operation Return was about 620 ships made up of only *parts* of 2 fleets that had made it to Starbase 375 in time. Starfleet had thousands of ships in active service before the Dominion war and thousands more in reserve and storage. It was not clear from canon if the 112 ships of the 7th fleet at the Battle of Tyra were just an "element" of the 7th fleet, with the rest assigned to other areas or still being reformed as the fleet was recalled from pre war assignments or all that remained after 5 months of combat. There are people that claim that we only ever saw small task groups of 1-3 ships with 40 ship deployments being mostly unheard of in canon and use those numbers as an excuse to pretend that Starfleet is small, while ignoring the nature of Starfleet deployment and operation in peace time. They also ignore that Sisko wanted "Elements of" 3 fleets for Operation Return, and claim that he wanted to take entire fleets, again as an excuse to reduce the true size of Starfleet. They drew only parts of those fleets in order for the remaining ships to hold the lines then push back remaining Dominion forces once the Dominion pulled back ships to stop the attack on Terok Nor. The problem Starfleet had at the start of the Dominion war is that most of the fleet was made up of older ships, which they saw little need to upgrade or replace (as the UFPs 30+ year old designs could easily handle the newest designs of their peers) until the Wolf 359 incident kicked them in the ass and made Starfleet face reality. Starfleet also had most of its ships deployed along the borders and beyond their space on long term science missions, which meant they required time, in most cases months, to recall and refit the ships. Starfleet had not had a major war since Kirk's era. They viewed the Cardassian wars as a minor annoyance and didn't commit their full forces to the threat. Ship commanders were not used to working in task forces of more then 3 or so ships. Starfleet was complacent, viewed themselves as 'top dog' and their deployments and fleet composition matched that view. It wasn't until they got a slap in the face from the Borg at J25, followed by the kick in the ass at Wolf 359 that Starfleet started to modenise. It wasn't until they lost the Odyssey that they started recalling ships and reforming task groups. and it wasn't until Cardassia joined the Dominion and it became crystal clear there would be a major war that Starfleet started activating reserves. The problem Starfleet had with the Dominion War wasn't the amount of ships they had to fight with, Federation Alliance and Dominion forces in the Alpha Quadrant at the start of the war were equal. It was that the Dominion could replace losses faster then they could. Backstage information from producers state that Starfleet had 30,000 ships prior to the war. Discovery Season 2 states they had 7000 ships in the 2250s.
I always thought the battle was a mascara considering the odds, but I also thought the battle ended where Dominion taking heavy casualties as well since we see after the battle Dominion invasion slow to a crawl. Especially after Starfleet took advantage of the most glaring tactical weakness of Dominion is that they're willing to sacrifice everything in any given battle, even if amounts to nothing as long as take some of the enemies with them. Meaning that when production is put on a crawl with the destruction of the White distribution facilities, the more devastating it is. Not only can't they replace the losses as quickly but also kill off all their veterans, leaving only green troops to fight harden, Starfleet, and Klingon veterans. We saw what that like during WWII where Japanese pilots went from being the most feared combatants to an almost joke compared to the veteran American Pilots. Plus, I saw a different version where because several ships had issues of their warp, fall back while the main fleet was circled after the Dominion directed all fire on the Admiral ship. Only for those ships to show up and hit the rear to allow the survivors to retreat.
Perhaps this one battle demonstrated in a strange way, just how far the Federation was willing to go to achieve victory. We didn't back down until all was lost. In a way, this battle may have been received in the same way Pearl Harbor was by Admiral Yamamoto. In my version of the battle, three ships had not warped in due to engine problems. I can understand why Venom left this out of his version. I like both explanations of how 14 ships made it back to our lines.
If we mix intellectual properties, I can't help but wonder how Warmaster Jha'dur would have fought the Dominion war, assuming in their desperation Starfleet gave her control as say a mercenary contractor. It's Alien Space Bats, but it fascinates me.
Venom geek media has opened my eyes on 2 glaring weaknesses of starfleet: military strategic thinking, and intelligence. When it comes to military strategic thinking, starfleet fails here because of a mandate of peaceful exploration, without the mandate to defend it's borders with the same zeal as the exploration part. The one thing I have learned in the US Army is that freedom is not free. You must be ready and able to defend this freedom, for there are those who see the combination of freedom and democracy as weaknesses. Starfleet's failure to properly conduct military operations against the cardassians during the border wars precipitated cardassia's outreach to the dominion, which started the dominion war. Now here's the deal with starfleet intelligence from what I understand: SI is the legitimate face for intelligence operations for the federation and section 31 is it's true, unseen intelligence department. SI does the usual stuff like information gathering and counterintelligence, and S31 does the grimy stuff like torture techniques. SI has consistently done a poor job on their part: starfleet typically finds itself on the backdoor of small and mid-grade invasions, and counterintelligence is nonexistent. How can anyone explain how a ship that's slated for the tyra campaign disappears and not only does no one look for it, no plans are changed due to the missing ship, and the possibility of attack plans being compromised? And how is it that your assault fleet could be easily found by the enemy's intelligence and your counterintelligence doesn't know? To me, these 2 issues signal the complete pacifist nature of what is essentially a military organization, and their failure to properly defend themselves. Fortunately, Starfleet's Corps of engineers are so good that it once again saved starfleet and the federation. I very much enjoy these videos. I miss good Star Trek.
Have you ever watched Isaac Arthur's channel? He has a series on war in the far distant future. If I had to guess, Starfleet has become mostly harmless because the nanoforge type industrial replication and AMAT/fusion power made the Feds a post scarcity civilization of immense industrial and technical power. There was no threat they could conceive until Q showed up and flipped the board.
Umm... you do know that the contents of these videos aren't canon, right...? They're fun, sure, but they're no more an insight into the true nature of Starfleet's strengths and weaknesses than putting up a bunch of post-it notes and throwing darts at them would be. Any reason you can envision for the Seventh Fleet's destruction is equally as valid as the one presented in this video.
epic. One thing to keep in mind is that starfleet's top rated, largest, and most powerful ships could be up to YEARS away from federation territory on 5-10 year long deep space exploration missions. Its very likely nearly all of them where immediately recalled with the loss of the Odyssey, but even by the time of this battle there where likely hundreds of starfleets heaviest hulls yet to make it back, be refit and modernized, and redeployed to the front. I imagine up to 20% of the starfleet operates outside of the core territory, and 80% of that consists of heavy cruiser and up sized hulls, with a few small survey ships like oberth and nova charting more detailed maps after the larger ships blazed the trail. Another 40% of the fleet operates within established boarders, mainly light cruisers or smaller, with the odd galaxy, nebula, Niagara, or ambassador posturing on the romulan neutral zone or handling any other high profile assignments, like we saw the enterprise D doing in TNG. The last 40% of space worthy ships are likely inactive around this time, decommissioned and maintained for possible reactivation as need arises. in classical naval dominance policy, the federation most likely wants a navy the size of its 2 closest competitors combined, though not necessarily all fully active at once. Ambassador class, about a decade ago finally eclipsed as the designated premier long range explorer, where probably in abundance at this point in time having completed the explorer portion of their life cycle, all having now returned from those extended missions. What could once be classified as a dreadnoughts in the 2330s now maybe rates as a large cruisers in the 2370s, and a use for a ship that large, aged, somewhat under gunned for her size, coupled with an above average operating cost, was likely pretty limited until war broke out, again. These would have been crucial in early battles to bulk out and anchor the subpar fleets that could be mustered quickly. They bought critical time that allowed for the mass production of new over gunned ships, designed after the threat of the borg was known, the returning of hundreds of super heavy explorers/super battleships, and the reactivation of surplus ships. This is really what saved the federation during the dominion war, for every jem hadar attack ship the dominion had or could build, there was a whole excelsior, centaur, constellations, curries, miranda or better in line to be refurbished and brought back into service.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Hmm... I'm planning a story around an "Elite Strategic Recon and Attack Wing", an elite fighter wings assigned to the front lines. Its members are 3 squadrons, eaxh having 12 members. The Icarus squadron, the Dawn squadron, the Möbius squadron, and the Leapfrog squadron, the 025th, 026th, 027th, and 028th tactical fighter wings, respectively. These squadrons are assigned to the "Carrier squadrons", made off an Akira Carrier and 2 tactical and 2 AWACS Nebulas. These pilots are the best of the best, the entire wing are made off ace pilots. They also have compliments of the "Type 10A AWACS shuttles" a modification of the type 10 tactical shuttle to employ long range sensors in supports for the squadron's operations. These are the SEAL team 6 of fighter pilots, if you will. Their presence in a battlefield inspire awe and respect in friends and foes alike.
Do you have names for the fourteen ships that escaped Tyra? I know beta canon said the Galaxy class USS Dauntless, Nebula class USS Lexington and the USS Lionheart (unknown class) were among the survivors.
Great video! Sadly explains (sort of) why we don't see Ambassadors later in the war (tho their absence from most all of TNG and DS9 still bugs me!). Where'd you get the fantastic artwork that's on screen between 8:37 and 8:45? I tried your credit links and couldn't find it.
That is the wonderful work of Ryselle-3D who made that and many other Renders for me Specifically, you can check out her Gallery Right here: www.deviantart.com/ryselle-3d/gallery/72841128/startrek
I very much look forward to more content about the Dominion War, and any other battles of the era. The Achilles class I'm bouncing up and down for anticipation for. Also, if you're willing to include anymore beta canon starship designs in Wings of vids, Ship Chats or Battlespace, a couple suggestions I put before you are the Aegian and Iwo Jima classes. Those two classes need some love. Like, frankly, take just the Aegian with it's shield enhancer. Having a "shield" frigate in a fleet of explorers is multi-purpose. l'd bet these things also have metaphasic shielding for scientific missions. And the Iwo Jima-classes could also double not just as Assault ships, but as combat Search & Rescue and disaster/crisis aid. Just throwing up ideas on those, but all 3 of those classes could use more love.
Another good vid. Its nice to have this kind of detail to the trek universe. Thanks again for making these vids. This is the fleet that is mentioned in an ep of ds9 as having only about 14 ships left right? If you mentioned that i misssd it.
I like these videos, a lot. They are tremendously entertaining but honest question, why don't the Starfleet ships just warp away along the z-axis? I mean space is very big. Even if the Dominion/Cardassians surround them in a sphere (extrapolating your video analysis to 3D) there would still be an infinity of vectors to blast out along at warp 9.5. Sorry not trying to be a killjoy here but maybe I am missing something?
I love the video man, but I find myself screaming "DUDE, FLY UP, STUPID! I mean, split your forces in half, one warps up on the Z axis and one warps down the Z axis, stop when out of range, and WARP OUT OF THERE!
Indeed as Weyon put it in season finale of season 7, dominion has never retreated in 2,000 years of battle, so when it dopes, should know something is up.
@@ChairmanMo Indeed, but facing the Dominion, compared to facing the Cardassians is a whole another level of cunning and deception that is hard for even veterans to comprehend upon first encounter.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 😿😿😿😿😿 catcry.jpg This is a great narrative for it! I always wondered what the Battle of Tyra would have been like! Thanks a whole bunch for making this episode! I could see any remaining ones patching in holes in fleets needed for a heavy cruiser or something.
the so there's 3 new classes i added to give them some depth, the Brinok missile cruiser, and the Vasad destroyers form the 'Artillery lines' and there are 3 Tornen class carriers as well.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 pardon my bad english what wanted to say is that it was not the ship I thought it was but it did look verry similar :D. Also thanks for mentioning the ship classes
When you say encircled you mean more like a sphere right because if it was just a circle like on the ground you could just fly out the top or bottom and make a run for it. It’s hard showing 3d battles on a 2 d map
hey I want to war game this battle with the fasa rules but I really suck at telling apart the federation ships mainly because there are so many different types.
It sounded at first like the Battle of Antietam, but it became much worse. The Hutet was there also?? Oh man, Dukat must have been on Cloud 9 after this.
Likely he was far too occupied trying to make sure his daughter loved him and trying to get into Major Kira's pants... his efforts on both fronts getting kinda creepy at times
Starfleet should use telepath to transmit in top secret messages I doubt they could remember a whole battle plan like that they can remember a lot of stuff
IK that the 2d space is more easy to display, but this seems like a situation where being in a 3d environment would be a good way to get around the blockade. Great battle recap though!
I wonder what happen to the 5th Fleet as they still operational as Dominion went after the 7th leaving nothing to reinforce the 5th Fleet assault I wonder what ever happen to Savik as old Cold War officers trained as combat officers by the then Admiral Kirk I was thinking the USS James T Kirk as a symbol of hope
because warp is not hyperspace. they'd pursue and knock your ships out of warp scattering them across the sector losing all cohesion and being an even easier target.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I get that, if ALL enemy ships are faster than your fastest. Some would/could get away by fighting them off mid warp since your slower ship may be able to disable their fast but fragile attacker. Nothing wrong with the video btw, loved it. just dislike how many franchise try to tell you how horrible a battle was since all hands were lost, but forget to take into account small details like, "a fast warp ship got out".
The problem with these formations in space is that they are being portrayed as 2 dimensional. There is a whole other direction of dimension to escape from ( Down or up, on the Z axis)
this was inspired by an classic video by Omnoplea show it some love. ua-cam.com/video/FvtVJSIlNGY/v-deo.html
IT SEEMS to me this entire farce could have been avoided if they simply had Admiral Ackbar in command!
@@IronWarhorsesFun everyone says that. forgetting that Ackbar only Called the Trap After it was Sprung.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 COUGH Historical Revision COUGH
@@thehandoftheking3314 This is a very good point!
@@venomgeekmedia9886
Something I never understood about the start of the Dominion War.
At DS9 they lost 50 ships destroyed, plus unknown number in various degrees of damage.
The Federation/Klingon task force destroyed one of their major shipyards including the defending forces.
So how does the early months of the war go so badly for the alpha quadrant powers?
He's the Drachnifel of Star Trek and I'm glad I found his channel. Lol
Well put, sir. Well put. 👍🖖
Definitely
After watching this....wow. Just wow. Kinda reminded me of the sea battles in the Pacific right after the start of WW2. When the Americans,Brits,and Dutch warships were trying to fight the Japanese around java and all that. Loss after loss. Heroic last stands. He has a way with words and narrations.
ABDA command. Very similar in being whatever they could scrap up and being mainly older less powerful ships
@@MrGunlover12 And a ineffective command structure too. Lol
I do wonder how things had gone if the American Admiral had been in charge instead of the Dutch one. Just because of the Dutchman indecisiveness.
Lessons learned: When the enemy does something contrary to what they are known for, it's always a trap!
This is the Battle Nog is asking about in Season 6 episode 1 - A Time to Stand 😀
Thank you for bringing these to life and filling in the details!
_"If we lose the war in the __-air-__ stars we lose the war and we lose it quickly."_
The Battle of Tyra is quite reminiscent of the Battle of Cannae during the 2nd Punic War. The Carthaginians had invaded Cannae, Italy and in that battle, encircled the Roman forces there, wiping most of them out.
Yes, but Cannae the Romans had a massive numerical advantage, with it having been the single biggest army Rome had ever raised up to that point and would indeed be the largest they would raise until the creation of the full time professional Roman army and the standing Legions
Yes! This would have been an equally potent demoralizer for a "free, peace-loving people". The Vorta, didn't want to blast their way across a devastated federation. They wanted them to SEE the inevitability of defeat and make an "honorable peace/ virtual surrender".
At cannae hannibal copied what the greeks did at marathon. Whether the greeks copied an earlier victory i dont know.
The forces that completed the encirclement of the massive roman army at cannae were numidian cavalry and like hannibal had copied what the greeks did at marathon to win at cannae a roman general would copy this encirclement using the same numidian cavalry at zama. These tactics are usually copied or inspired by something that happened before.
It actually reminded me more of the battle of Carrhae where the Romans under Crassus attempted to push into Parthian territory but we're surrounded by a smaller Parthian cavalry army and we're forced to form a square formation while the Parthian continually pelted them with arrows.
WE CANT KEEP TAKING THESE KINDS OF LOSSES.. NOT IF WE EXPECT TO WIN THIS!!!
“Thank you, Doctor. That will be all…”
@@fightingfalcon777smashes table.
@@dermagnus8482 Martok - Forgetting his arm hurts.
Brutal battle. We heard so much about Federation losses but never anything so specific.
"A retreating force never loved it's commander" I see what you did there. Waterloo was a great movie, as for the 7th fleet. May they rest in peace.
That opening segment, ending with a memorial plaque to let us know he's not going to make it...chef's kiss. Excellent work.
Poor federation. What a sad beat down. RIP brave officers and crew. You will not be forgotten.
I have news of the 7th fleet. Go on. Only 14 ships made it back to our lines. 14!! Out a 112!!!. We can’t keep take these kinds of losses sir, not if we expect to win this. Thank you doctor that will be all.
Bashir, the profit and announcer of doom and gloom.
@@wedgeantillies66 yeah he wanted to surrender based on theoretical probability only. And yet, enter Garek which helped Sisko change the entire game. So much for theory and calculations. It didn’t account for the random ingenuity of rolling the dice on a high risk goal and actually landing all 10s.
@@danielramirez1529 On indeed he did in belief that he would by saving lives. Tahink is war isn't just statistics, it is bloody chaos, that than be influenced and shaped by bold decisive strokes and underhand measures. Like Garek and Sisko's game changing move of bringing the romulans into the war. As it was beginning of the snowball effect that would to expansion of the war and its eventually end,
I am not sure why people on think it was a federation fleet alone in this engagement. Klingon wings were part of the fleet. How else do they think Martin knew about it.
@@chrismarks4277Because you're mixing up fleets. The fleet that you see at the beginning of the season 6 opener that sisko and martok ships are part of is a totally different one from the seven fleet. Their fleet is probably remains of joint taskforce that destroyed Torres III. The federation personal mention the seven fleet exclusively, while their own fleet takes a break. Martok as a general knows about fleet deployments due to shared high command. General feeling is that initially apart from odd instances the various klingon and federation fleets fought independently, until operation return. As they defended their own borders and territory.
Hi Venom Geek Media 98, Omnoplea here. I just want to say what a fantastic job you've done of covering this conflict. This was one of Starfleet's most desperate hours, and one of the heaviest losses we've ever known in Star Trek. I have always wanted to expand upon the human drama in this battle; if you ever feel like revisiting this in more detail then don't hesitate to let me know.
I'm glad i was able to do it justice. your video was a great inspiration and is a huge part of the History of 'trek-tube' im just glad to have been able to add to that History. im glad you enjoyed :)
On behalf of all the fans of BOTH of your channels, and of Trek, I say:
HELL YEAH! DOOO IT, DOOO IT, DOOO IT!!!
14:40 ; And the Hutet once more makes a dastardly strike.
Compared to the little to no showing of it in Alpha/Beta canon there is. The amount of time that vessel has been presented on this channel has possibly given it a much more illustrious status in Star Trek as a whole.
So that's the 13th order fleet supported by 70 dominion ships 10 battlecruisers and 60 fighters
An ambassador class heavy cruiser stands no chance against a monstrous hutet class especially with it's 6 heavy spiral wave disruptors smashing your shields and hull
Not what I had imagined for Seventh Fleet's disastrous battle...It is so much better!!! I loved the nuance and complexity you gave the state of affairs at this point in the war, so realistic in the best way!
You repeat yourself a couple of times in the dialogue, but excellent work as usual. Solid video, thank you!
Bashir... I have news of the 7th fleet only 14 ships made it back 2 our lines
Martok...14 out of 112
Bashir...we can't keep taking these kind of loses
Sisko...hits a table & is very angry
That's a failure of high command of not checking up on their missing ships. Great video
or assigning some experienced officers and at least a few modern ships to bolster what was essentially a second line fleet.
Your narration of this battle was outstanding.
When I saw the Federation in a defensive square formation I was like "Just go up! GO UP!" I realize it probably wouldn't be that simple but I thought it funny anyway.
yeah its really just a matter of terminology... call an encirclement an enspherement the outcome is the same
I very much hope we get to see an order of battle for the 7th fleet like we did for the sector 001 task force
Excellent video and a very believable response to the Dominion invasion, with needing more ships as quick as possible. Using near retired veterans to command them.
Gripping, if tragic story.
Hey I just want to say that I appreciate the effort and time that you put onto making your videos and I really appreciate it
Oh, I can't wait. These battlespace videos are always entertaining.
The one thing Star Trek and the space battles miss is they're always on a 2D plane really in space you'd be fighting on a 3D plane vertically horizontally etc
I love this kind of stuff you really know what you are doing here please keep them coming and think you so much for telling us about this.
12:34 Although Starfleet is outnumbered they could get local superiority by moving all of their reserves in the center and weaken is 2nd line moving to attack the 3 Jem Hadar cruisers from the point where they meet the Cardassian line. If they could quickly destroy or disable those ships before the Dominion reinforced the area it would create a gap allowing ships to escape and with Starfleet vessels typically having superior warp speed more might have survived.
"What happened at Tyra?"
"We met the enemy."
". . . We got hurt?"
". . . We got hurt."
Loved it. Kind of odd for me since my old fleet in Star Trek Online is the Federation 7th Fleet. Lol, great video. Looking forward to more.
Oh my word, that was a fantastically awesome and brilliantly stunning video. Explaining just how the federation gots his ass handed to it so disastrously at the battle of Trye. Which is probably the Dominion's most decisive and notable victory of the first six months. Have to say that while watching it, showcases what one can do when you have the enemy's plan drop squarely in your lap and used it to destroy them utterly. Unlike say Mcclellan at Antietam or Von Rundstedt during Operation Market Garden. Though of course it had to be Cardassian hubris and desire for glory, that let those 14 ships slip away to fight another day. Though have to wonder if without said plan falling into Dominion hands, would the federation have pulled off a victory or still got beat.
an interesting question... if Operation Return was anything to go by, Operation Macedon was simply too small. this is not a war in which one wins with a hundred ships, but Hundreds of ships.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 True, but the elite Dominion forces would be facing off against the anti-borg task forces or at the top of the offensive drive. The Feds didn't know the Hutet was there. If the Hutet WASN'T there, and the Dominion hadn't known of the attack, the encircled ships ( at the starbases) could have escaped. They would fight a running battle all the way back to safety but only small Dominion units could engage as they arrived. Most would be too far off to catch up.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Indeed and agree as the battle of Sector 001 and borders wars were last time starfleet could get away with winning with fleets of a hundred ships or less. As operation return was supposed to be a massive fleet of 900-1200 ships if they all be gathered in time and suspect that fleet that destroyed Torres III being a fleet of several hundred strong. Dominion war was a total war and had to be fought as such on mass with all resources and massive fleets.
The most negligent point of this disaster was not having prepared to purge the courier's computers if in danger of capture. Only Starfleet had such poor operational security.
@@GoddessTier Oh indeed and starfleet, more than paid the penalty for not properly having measures at hand to prevent vital information falling into the enemies hands, apart from self destruct. In case of imminent capture, cascade virus's should have been in place and deployed to prevent any usage or gaining of information by the enemy. Like how Sisko disabled DS9 at end of season five.
Degret: *ITS A TRAP!!!*
Also, I don't know if this was intentional, but the Andorian Admiral, B'ran, well, the word Buran is Russian for Snowstorm, making it a rather fitting name for an Andorian
a happy accident
@@venomgeekmedia9886 The Soviet space shuttle was also named Buran and the USS Buran, Captain Lorca's ship is named for it too
There was a challenger class uss buran at wolf 359 as well
When Jean-Luc Picard said Starfleet is not a military he meant it and this is proof of that
Yet another incredible video!!!! Bravo, this was brilliant 👏
Great video, the idea of fleets being formed out of older ships and under the command of cardasian war veterans for admirals to command against mostly cardasian enemies. unfortunately I wasn't able be there for the premier but I still enjoyed it
I loved that idea too!
Starfleet consisted of about 8,000 ships at this time, 2,000 of them capital ships! There were over forty fleets then, but none of them organized as a battle-experienced unit. One warning signal should have been Wolf 359, where 39 ships of the 1st Fleet were destroyed nearly immediately.
Only 600 ships Federation-wide? No.
At the start of the war. But those numbers would ramp up
Its cool to hear about some of the planets that star trek fans have heard mentiomed and many that we have seen as well like oniaka was mentioned from descent episode and el adril was mentioned in another video.
3:24? Wait, Starfleet only had 600 ships at this time? I could’ve sworn it was at least a thousand, maybe even several thousand. Wasn’t the fleet during operation return just over a thousand ships? There’s no way Starfleet would send every single ship in their fleet to the flotilla and leave the rest of their space unguarded.
The Starfleet force deployed for Operation Return was about 620 ships made up of only *parts* of 2 fleets that had made it to Starbase 375 in time.
Starfleet had thousands of ships in active service before the Dominion war and thousands more in reserve and storage.
It was not clear from canon if the 112 ships of the 7th fleet at the Battle of Tyra were just an "element" of the 7th fleet, with the rest assigned to other areas or still being reformed as the fleet was recalled from pre war assignments or all that remained after 5 months of combat.
There are people that claim that we only ever saw small task groups of 1-3 ships with 40 ship deployments being mostly unheard of in canon and use those numbers as an excuse to pretend that Starfleet is small, while ignoring the nature of Starfleet deployment and operation in peace time.
They also ignore that Sisko wanted "Elements of" 3 fleets for Operation Return, and claim that he wanted to take entire fleets, again as an excuse to reduce the true size of Starfleet.
They drew only parts of those fleets in order for the remaining ships to hold the lines then push back remaining Dominion forces once the Dominion pulled back ships to stop the attack on Terok Nor.
The problem Starfleet had at the start of the Dominion war is that most of the fleet was made up of older ships, which they saw little need to upgrade or replace (as the UFPs 30+ year old designs could easily handle the newest designs of their peers) until the Wolf 359 incident kicked them in the ass and made Starfleet face reality.
Starfleet also had most of its ships deployed along the borders and beyond their space on long term science missions, which meant they required time, in most cases months, to recall and refit the ships.
Starfleet had not had a major war since Kirk's era. They viewed the Cardassian wars as a minor annoyance and didn't commit their full forces to the threat. Ship commanders were not used to working in task forces of more then 3 or so ships.
Starfleet was complacent, viewed themselves as 'top dog' and their deployments and fleet composition matched that view.
It wasn't until they got a slap in the face from the Borg at J25, followed by the kick in the ass at Wolf 359 that Starfleet started to modenise.
It wasn't until they lost the Odyssey that they started recalling ships and reforming task groups.
and it wasn't until Cardassia joined the Dominion and it became crystal clear there would be a major war that Starfleet started activating reserves.
The problem Starfleet had with the Dominion War wasn't the amount of ships they had to fight with, Federation Alliance and Dominion forces in the Alpha Quadrant at the start of the war were equal. It was that the Dominion could replace losses faster then they could.
Backstage information from producers state that Starfleet had 30,000 ships prior to the war.
Discovery Season 2 states they had 7000 ships in the 2250s.
Its not hard to imagine a few hundred ships in active duty leading up to the start of the war and a massive reserve fleet
Another great video! Still looking for that Federation Wings episode of the Ambassador-class
i will probably do a 'Wings of the federation' next but it'll probably be the excelsior
@@venomgeekmedia9886 That will be a good one too.
The problem with this battle is that it is entirely 2 dimensional warfare. If the UFO fleet had utilized the z axis they would have survived.
I always thought the battle was a mascara considering the odds, but I also thought the battle ended where Dominion taking heavy casualties as well since we see after the battle Dominion invasion slow to a crawl. Especially after Starfleet took advantage of the most glaring tactical weakness of Dominion is that they're willing to sacrifice everything in any given battle, even if amounts to nothing as long as take some of the enemies with them. Meaning that when production is put on a crawl with the destruction of the White distribution facilities, the more devastating it is. Not only can't they replace the losses as quickly but also kill off all their veterans, leaving only green troops to fight harden, Starfleet, and Klingon veterans. We saw what that like during WWII where Japanese pilots went from being the most feared combatants to an almost joke compared to the veteran American Pilots.
Plus, I saw a different version where because several ships had issues of their warp, fall back while the main fleet was circled after the Dominion directed all fire on the Admiral ship. Only for those ships to show up and hit the rear to allow the survivors to retreat.
Perhaps this one battle demonstrated in a strange way, just how far the Federation was willing to go to achieve victory. We didn't back down until all was lost. In a way, this battle may have been received in the same way Pearl Harbor was by Admiral Yamamoto.
In my version of the battle, three ships had not warped in due to engine problems. I can understand why Venom left this out of his version. I like both explanations of how 14 ships made it back to our lines.
If we mix intellectual properties, I can't help but wonder how Warmaster Jha'dur would have fought the Dominion war, assuming in their desperation Starfleet gave her control as say a mercenary contractor. It's Alien Space Bats, but it fascinates me.
@@GoddessTier They do that, it's called Garak and the Romulans.
I look forward to it with the deepest eagerness.
Venom geek media has opened my eyes on 2 glaring weaknesses of starfleet: military strategic thinking, and intelligence.
When it comes to military strategic thinking, starfleet fails here because of a mandate of peaceful exploration, without the mandate to defend it's borders with the same zeal as the exploration part. The one thing I have learned in the US Army is that freedom is not free. You must be ready and able to defend this freedom, for there are those who see the combination of freedom and democracy as weaknesses. Starfleet's failure to properly conduct military operations against the cardassians during the border wars precipitated cardassia's outreach to the dominion, which started the dominion war.
Now here's the deal with starfleet intelligence from what I understand: SI is the legitimate face for intelligence operations for the federation and section 31 is it's true, unseen intelligence department. SI does the usual stuff like information gathering and counterintelligence, and S31 does the grimy stuff like torture techniques. SI has consistently done a poor job on their part: starfleet typically finds itself on the backdoor of small and mid-grade invasions, and counterintelligence is nonexistent. How can anyone explain how a ship that's slated for the tyra campaign disappears and not only does no one look for it, no plans are changed due to the missing ship, and the possibility of attack plans being compromised? And how is it that your assault fleet could be easily found by the enemy's intelligence and your counterintelligence doesn't know?
To me, these 2 issues signal the complete pacifist nature of what is essentially a military organization, and their failure to properly defend themselves. Fortunately, Starfleet's Corps of engineers are so good that it once again saved starfleet and the federation.
I very much enjoy these videos. I miss good Star Trek.
Have you ever watched Isaac Arthur's channel? He has a series on war in the far distant future. If I had to guess, Starfleet has become mostly harmless because the nanoforge type industrial replication and AMAT/fusion power made the Feds a post scarcity civilization of immense industrial and technical power. There was no threat they could conceive until Q showed up and flipped the board.
Umm... you do know that the contents of these videos aren't canon, right...? They're fun, sure, but they're no more an insight into the true nature of Starfleet's strengths and weaknesses than putting up a bunch of post-it notes and throwing darts at them would be. Any reason you can envision for the Seventh Fleet's destruction is equally as valid as the one presented in this video.
@@SirBroadsword I know that this shit's fake. It's just better to talk about than reality, cause reality sucks
@@timothyhiggins8934 Heh. Amen to that.
epic.
One thing to keep in mind is that starfleet's top rated, largest, and most powerful ships could be up to YEARS away from federation territory on 5-10 year long deep space exploration missions. Its very likely nearly all of them where immediately recalled with the loss of the Odyssey, but even by the time of this battle there where likely hundreds of starfleets heaviest hulls yet to make it back, be refit and modernized, and redeployed to the front. I imagine up to 20% of the starfleet operates outside of the core territory, and 80% of that consists of heavy cruiser and up sized hulls, with a few small survey ships like oberth and nova charting more detailed maps after the larger ships blazed the trail.
Another 40% of the fleet operates within established boarders, mainly light cruisers or smaller, with the odd galaxy, nebula, Niagara, or ambassador posturing on the romulan neutral zone or handling any other high profile assignments, like we saw the enterprise D doing in TNG. The last 40% of space worthy ships are likely inactive around this time, decommissioned and maintained for possible reactivation as need arises. in classical naval dominance policy, the federation most likely wants a navy the size of its 2 closest competitors combined, though not necessarily all fully active at once.
Ambassador class, about a decade ago finally eclipsed as the designated premier long range explorer, where probably in abundance at this point in time having completed the explorer portion of their life cycle, all having now returned from those extended missions. What could once be classified as a dreadnoughts in the 2330s now maybe rates as a large cruisers in the 2370s, and a use for a ship that large, aged, somewhat under gunned for her size, coupled with an above average operating cost, was likely pretty limited until war broke out, again. These would have been crucial in early battles to bulk out and anchor the subpar fleets that could be mustered quickly. They bought critical time that allowed for the mass production of new over gunned ships, designed after the threat of the borg was known, the returning of hundreds of super heavy explorers/super battleships, and the reactivation of surplus ships. This is really what saved the federation during the dominion war, for every jem hadar attack ship the dominion had or could build, there was a whole excelsior, centaur, constellations, curries, miranda or better in line to be refurbished and brought back into service.
Thank you for an awesome video keep up the great work i look forward to more of your postings
These are so cool, thank you for doing these.
Captain Ashton just wanted to see that flowe... DEAD!
Finding a reason for the curry class, well done.
Thanks been looking forward to this one
These dominion war tales are inspiring me to write my own one or two. I might centre my own stories around a single unit.
Great idea, i really enjoyed the 'Squadron' fan film, and i'd love to see more in a similar vein.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 That Fanfilm was great. I hope that we see more of that sort of thing too.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Hmm... I'm planning a story around an "Elite Strategic Recon and Attack Wing", an elite fighter wings assigned to the front lines. Its members are 3 squadrons, eaxh having 12 members. The Icarus squadron, the Dawn squadron, the Möbius squadron, and the Leapfrog squadron, the 025th, 026th, 027th, and 028th tactical fighter wings, respectively. These squadrons are assigned to the "Carrier squadrons", made off an Akira Carrier and 2 tactical and 2 AWACS Nebulas. These pilots are the best of the best, the entire wing are made off ace pilots. They also have compliments of the "Type 10A AWACS shuttles" a modification of the type 10 tactical shuttle to employ long range sensors in supports for the squadron's operations.
These are the SEAL team 6 of fighter pilots, if you will. Their presence in a battlefield inspire awe and respect in friends and foes alike.
Do you have names for the fourteen ships that escaped Tyra? I know beta canon said the Galaxy class USS Dauntless, Nebula class USS Lexington and the USS Lionheart (unknown class) were among the survivors.
Great video! Sadly explains (sort of) why we don't see Ambassadors later in the war (tho their absence from most all of TNG and DS9 still bugs me!). Where'd you get the fantastic artwork that's on screen between 8:37 and 8:45? I tried your credit links and couldn't find it.
That is the wonderful work of Ryselle-3D who made that and many other Renders for me Specifically, you can check out her Gallery Right here: www.deviantart.com/ryselle-3d/gallery/72841128/startrek
I very much look forward to more content about the Dominion War, and any other battles of the era. The Achilles class I'm bouncing up and down for anticipation for. Also, if you're willing to include anymore beta canon starship designs in Wings of vids, Ship Chats or Battlespace, a couple suggestions I put before you are the Aegian and Iwo Jima classes. Those two classes need some love. Like, frankly, take just the Aegian with it's shield enhancer. Having a "shield" frigate in a fleet of explorers is multi-purpose. l'd bet these things also have metaphasic shielding for scientific missions. And the Iwo Jima-classes could also double not just as Assault ships, but as combat Search & Rescue and disaster/crisis aid. Just throwing up ideas on those, but all 3 of those classes could use more love.
Another good vid. Its nice to have this kind of detail to the trek universe. Thanks again for making these vids. This is the fleet that is mentioned in an ep of ds9 as having only about 14 ships left right? If you mentioned that i misssd it.
The cardassian eighth order is a brutally strong fleet! A battleship, three carriers,14 cruisers and 4 destroyers
The cardassian thirteenth order is a decent strength fleet: two artillery lines, four recon lines and six galor lines
This is good I love watching your content
'14?! Out of 112?!'
I like these videos, a lot. They are tremendously entertaining but honest question, why don't the Starfleet ships just warp away along the z-axis? I mean space is very big. Even if the Dominion/Cardassians surround them in a sphere (extrapolating your video analysis to 3D) there would still be an infinity of vectors to blast out along at warp 9.5. Sorry not trying to be a killjoy here but maybe I am missing something?
I love the video man, but I find myself screaming "DUDE, FLY UP, STUPID! I mean, split your forces in half, one warps up on the Z axis and one warps down the Z axis, stop when out of range, and WARP OUT OF THERE!
The second the Jen Hadar pulled back Degret should’ve realized they’ve been made
Indeed as Weyon put it in season finale of season 7, dominion has never retreated in 2,000 years of battle, so when it dopes, should know something is up.
This was just bad tactical skills.
@@ChairmanMo Indeed, but facing the Dominion, compared to facing the Cardassians is a whole another level of cunning and deception that is hard for even veterans to comprehend upon first encounter.
Only a handful of Starfleet officers knew at the gut level that Weyoun wasn't merely boasting.
@@GoddessTier Indeed and among that handful would be captain's sisko and picard.
They were surrounded couldn’t they fly up down , or was it a sphere surrounding
Its funny seeing roddenberry's view of star trek that it should breed such great war stories.
Gene had a incredible level of creativity. But his no conflict rule made storytelling extremely difficult.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 i strongly agree.
In a lot of ways, this reflects what happened during "The Four Years" war.Klingons taking lots of space until starfleet unleashed the Ares class.
Great video keep up good work.
This was an Excellent video, but wasn't the Defiant in that battle? even so I absolutely loved it!
no the defiant is quite far away on another front. its actually takes several days for the news to reach them.
Did the dominion upgrade the tech of cardassian ships?
as the war went on yes. but not many at this point.
There is a galaxycass x in this?
an liberty taken by the artist. in reality there isn't a galaxy x
.ok. think you so much .
Worst military defeat of the Federation since Wolf 359.
Lol I just caught the reference! "I'm Venom Neidell and this...is modern war"
But does he have a Chair of Wisdom?
May I ask. The ships on the fourth row down that are mixed in with the excelsiors?
L
Timestamp? Maybe the Hutzel there's a couple of excelsior derivatives running about.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Bravo! Bravo!👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
My poor Ambassador Class ships 😿😿😿😿😿 GOOD VIDEO!
and this is why we don't see them so much later in the war.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 😿😿😿😿😿 catcry.jpg This is a great narrative for it! I always wondered what the Battle of Tyra would have been like! Thanks a whole bunch for making this episode! I could see any remaining ones patching in holes in fleets needed for a heavy cruiser or something.
Fantastic content... Any plans to cover the Tzenkethi War mentioned in DS9?
Excellent work!
what are those cardasian ships at the back? I think I reconize them it but I hope I am mistaken
the so there's 3 new classes i added to give them some depth, the Brinok missile cruiser, and the Vasad destroyers form the 'Artillery lines' and there are 3 Tornen class carriers as well.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 that was not exactly the one I was afraid off but close ( the Tornen) it is from the starship schematics website / Battle clinic
@@sovietdominion can you give me a timestamp? which one was it then?
@@venomgeekmedia9886 pardon my bad english what wanted to say is that it was not the ship I thought it was but it did look verry similar :D. Also thanks for mentioning the ship classes
I am specificaly talking about the Tornen the others I am very familiar with
I'd question star fleet numbers and fleet sizes. But I agreed about time and ready to fight ships refuting for war would take mouths
gut wrenching stuff,
When you say encircled you mean more like a sphere right because if it was just a circle like on the ground you could just fly out the top or bottom and make a run for it. It’s hard showing 3d battles on a 2 d map
Will the hutet be in this?
it will indeed
@@venomgeekmedia9886 eyes slowly grow wider...
Data: "Oooooooh shi-"
Were the Klingons already Mobilezed ?
hey I want to war game this battle with the fasa rules but I really suck at telling apart the federation ships mainly because there are so many different types.
Another great video!
It sounded at first like the Battle of Antietam, but it became much worse. The Hutet was there also?? Oh man, Dukat must have been on Cloud 9 after this.
Likely he was far too occupied trying to make sure his daughter loved him and trying to get into Major Kira's pants... his efforts on both fronts getting kinda creepy at times
Starfleet should use telepath to transmit in top secret messages I doubt they could remember a whole battle plan like that they can remember a lot of stuff
IK that the 2d space is more easy to display, but this seems like a situation where being in a 3d environment would be a good way to get around the blockade. Great battle recap though!
Bravo Venom! More Dominion Battlespace episodes!
Operation Return? 😃
AR-557.
@@IronWarhorsesFun a land battle synopsis? I guess it could be Guadalcanal-esque.
@@danielramirez1529 Yes. It's honestly my favorite EP from DS9 War Arc as you never really see anything like it before or after.
Well done 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Never send a alien to do a man's job.
I think the federation's tactical nouce, together with Romulan and Klingon fleets are more than adequate.
"Admiral, this battle denotes... Two dimensional thinking"
The designs of the dominion ships is smart. They still look like advanced and menacing star ships today and ds9 is a few years old now.
They look like giant beetles
I wonder what happen to the 5th Fleet as they still operational as Dominion went after the 7th leaving nothing to reinforce the 5th Fleet assault I wonder what ever happen to Savik as old Cold War officers trained as combat officers by the then Admiral Kirk
I was thinking the USS James T Kirk as a symbol of hope
Why wasn't there any nubile class star ships they? The federation would have had a better chance of winning
I love how the courier was a California class ship.
This always bugs me, why not "warp" away? they don't have anythign pinning them down do they?
because warp is not hyperspace. they'd pursue and knock your ships out of warp scattering them across the sector losing all cohesion and being an even easier target.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I get that, if ALL enemy ships are faster than your fastest. Some would/could get away by fighting them off mid warp since your slower ship may be able to disable their fast but fragile attacker. Nothing wrong with the video btw, loved it. just dislike how many franchise try to tell you how horrible a battle was since all hands were lost, but forget to take into account small details like, "a fast warp ship got out".
Epic! Well done
The problem with these formations in space is that they are being portrayed as 2 dimensional. There is a whole other direction of dimension to escape from ( Down or up, on the Z axis)
its easier to tale out enemy ships when you dont disperse you fire. Just make 3 bigger units and focus fire taking one ship after another.
Why tf did I get a notification 3hrs ago making it seem like this was just uploaded????
Your not the first one to ask...
"Fourteen...out of a hundred and twelve"
With ships a frigate is a ship with its cannons in a single row. What would make a star trek star ship a frigate? Maybe its a weight class system.
Probably "displacement" and cannon "calibres"
Good narration. Don't you want to use original animated scenes?