I've explained the two deathwing fights to people in real life, starting with the following disclaiming "What I'm about to explain sounds like the coolest things in the world, but somehow, blizz found a way to make them both the most boring things possible."
I know that you're kind of right, but it's so hard for me to accept. Dragon soul was the first time I managed to down a heroic end game boss pre patch and I guess nostalgia just takes over. I even dare say I miss dragon soul, I AM THE CATACLYSM. Epic but kinda boring raid I guess.
madness was mostly fine just a little anti climactic for what it was (fighting a corrupted dragon in the middle of the whirlpool in the middle of the sea with the other dragons he turned against lol), his back however was miserable to do during progression. Could just be i hated being a rogue and having to pull the small adds to stack on the larger.
And then…….So’leah came into the picture and I am ready to @&$%ing strangle Blizzard for this! She doesn’t fire her beams AT ALL if you’re going in there solo! 💢💢💢
@truman0725 I think it was killer. I didn't even participate pre patch. But even farming it now for mounts I find it to be such a cool fight and couldn't imagine the level of stress figuring it out. Would've been fun af imo
Noooo! Blackfuse was literally my favorite fight ever on my hunter. I got that sequence down like a champ, and then had fun disengaging on and off it. Made me feel all important and special and shit.
I didn't love the fight, but I don't hate it. I was a Destro Warlock at the time and was on belt duty. 50+ wipes on heroic AT LEAST (it was probably a lot more, but I think I blocked those memories) - and mostly due to a few of the worst DPS'ers standing in dumb places and dying to avoidable damage. But the belt squad I worked with? Flawless 95% of the time. And I'd even be cheeky and put the debuff on the boss before the belt phase that let me cleave him a little because our burst damage was so good on the belt (I can't remember its name, its been so long since then and I switched class since).
I'm right with you - I was always assigned to the belt; Blackfuse was not a problem and we didn't hate it. He did have too much trash to pull beforehand, though.
housemastah i thought the same of seigecrafter, from what i was able to tell most peope liked the fights cause it was something new and made you have to pay attention.
housemastah Depends what class I did it on. Did ToTC on all 10 classes and have to say it was great fun on my rogue. I really didn't enjoy it on my main mage though as I couldn't do as much.
Naxx's trash mobs were worse than the bosses, especially if you wore Leather/Cloth, since their AoE DOTs would usually do more damage than you had max Health. Healers would obviously have to prioritize themselves and Tanks, so DPS usually had issues - Druids were also trash at Mana efficiency to Healin ratios, so they weren't much use outside of Abolish Poison and Hot Rez. Shaman's weren't great (Nature Based), either, but at least they had Totems.
@@Taintedmind i can't agree on that almost at all. The only ever problem we had with adds were in the plague wing and that wa sonly because that specific wing had an onslaught of stuff you had to kill before pulling the bosd. Most other wings were nowhere close to as hard as the bosses back then, especially Stallagg and Feugen were a nightmare if one of you screwed up.
+Bill Jensen Ohhh, i really liked that fight, too. But I was also pvping as a healing priest back then (... i can't even remember, which spec, probably disc in wrath ; ) ) - so I felt super-cool to be able to handle all the stuns and CC. But I understood the frustration of all the raid members, who did not do pvp. Nowadays I would probably be annoyed, because I don't do pvp anymore (and play a different class).
+Bill Jensen +1 on that! Faction Champs is the only fight in the game that not just tests you as a player, but also actively teaches you how to be better. No fight has even nearly the same level of tactical complexity. My favourite moment in all of WoW was forming the strategy to down these guys for the first time.
Im surprised to say that I agree with 90% on the list. But, I absolutely loved Blackfuse. But, if Blizz makes a new addition to PvE like PvP champs, why would that be bad? It only indicates that players dont want to try anything new in PvE, but constant tank switch on sunders and avoid standing in shit?
As mele dps that fight was not that bad, Just avoid few things and dps boss. Even as tank it was ok. Switch and dps add, and try to bring it to damage dealing things. I have been mostely mele dpsing or tanking it. But ones that go to belt are under high pressure and barely touch the boss. Not my favorite fight in that raid, but not the worst. For me, personaly, worst was klaxxi. As tank you had to remember names and abilities they do, and 9 of them have awful names. XD
Blackfuse would have to be on my top 3 bosses from SoO. I played a hunter during SoO, and in the beginning I was absolutley terrified of the thought of doing the assembly line. It was during this fight I really got to know my fellow hunters in the guild, we stayed 12 hours a week on that belt. lol. Imo the worst fight from SoO have to be Spoils of Pandaria. Tanks blaming each other, healers blaming each other. One side pointing fingers at the other side. Easy once you got the hang of it, and then it just became boring.
@@jacobkeller7172 Yes he did get his horseman information as 2nd hand because he started playing in wrath and this video was made before classic so he didn't have experience of the fight, that doesn't mean he doesn't play the game at all.
"No one liked Seigecrafter" Seigecrafter is universally acclaimed by hardcore raiders as one of the best fights in the history of WoW. Can't agree with you at all on that one.
I absolutely HATE lady vashj, for those who dont know once you hit her she goes immune, then you must - 1. Stop water from getting to her, or she gets damage buff. 2. Kill marsh walkers that can fear 3. Loot mobs that are almost identical to the regular ones. 4. Take the loot and use it on something to break her shield, do that 4 times. After that it's very simple, but to this day i hate the fight because of how long it is.
***** I think I started to maniacally laugh on our second vashj try because that boss encounter was so freaking awesome. Though usually I was either healing (lots of stuff to do, great encounter to go all out as healer) or killing/kiting striders as shadow priest and doing a little damage to the adds. Playing the encounter as DD was … boring. We reduced the amount of healers to an absolute minimum, meaning that all the adds just exploded and you rarely could even use a full rotation on your targets before you had to target switch. Boring and annoying. Luckily I normally had the good jobs in that encounter *g*
vashj was my second favorite boss in tbc and honestly probably overall (only next to kael'thas) i was kiting striders every fight and it was a great fight imo.
The difference is Lady Vashj only really needed half the raid to know what to do. One person wasn't going to wipe Lady Vashj. Now, if all 25 people knew what to do, Lady Vashj dropped pretty fast so it wasn't a complete BS gimmick fight like a lot on this list.
I played WW Monk which means WW monks 1 and 2 just afked and trans'd up and down the belt killing adds and doing nothing else. That fight is super boring
Chris Current Everyone hates that fight, are you the best dps? your on the belt. Good luck everything depends on you doing the best dps to the boss and the components and not being even remotely overwhelmed and making a fractional spacing mistake that instagibbed you. Are you a healer? the two most important people in your raid are unreachable to heal and your already running basically everywhere to avoid mechanics in a fight where the tank MUST be taking damage directly to the face to avoid a wipe. Are you the tank? congratz, while in a wild panic about the dps on the belt going okay, you have to tank the boss and avoid ground mechanics and tank swap while 1 tank has to literally be on the other side of the entire room. Are you a nominal dps? Why the fuck arent you good enough to be on the belt? why are you here? what are you doing with your life, Your literally and figuratively a failure. Also be 100% ready to suddenly have to go onthe belt incase one of the people on the belt makes a fractional mistake and dies. You totally know the belt right? because even though we only ever send to the top 2 dps week after week your a dps and should know instantly how to handle the belt to avoid a wipe. It was a no win scenario no matter what spot you played. Nobody could sit and focus on their own jobs because everyone had to be ready to compensate for everyone else's job's.
SeditiousSpyke It was so common in vanilla and bc to have specific important people in a boss fight that I guess many people will not have minded this at all. Interrupt rotations, tank rotations, healer rotations, etc … and 40/25 man raids that will wipe if the player can not do his job. And tanks used to play that role anyway most of the time. With how common interrupt rotations became in BC you rogues were often in the same position. It did not sound to bad actually, just annoying when you play with bad players. And hey at least it limits the failing state to just 2 players. Imagine when you have attention checks for all 25/40 players that will wipe the raid when failed. *grin Good times.
SeditiousSpyke if heroic was bad, remember that you had to actually go up to people and tell them how to do everything, what to kill and when to go to the belt in LFR. Nobody had a clue of what was going on and almost never succeeded. Unless your healers were crazy good it was an almost certain wipe on LFR. LFR was such a bad choice....It lead to 85% of my wipes...
disagree, you actually had to focus on Spine, it was entirely execution based and a big fat dps check (like Ultraxion, another one I liked) Even on hc difficulty, you could fall asleep on Madness. Too long and too repetetive.
They both suck, but Spine is probably the worst fight in all my time playing WoW. Half the fight on heroic is DPS afking and waiting till they're supposed to burst.
FACTION CHAMPS!!! Holy shit, that takes me back. I used to be in a top-end raiding guild in WotLK and would pug ToC on the weekends on my tank. After loads of trial and error, I remember finally devising a fool proof strategy for that fight (you couldn't ask me what it was now... this was years ago) and would consistently lead every pug to one-shotting it in 25-man groups. That alt run would literally fill up in less than 10 minutes because every DPS on the server was begging to join. Ahh, the good ol' days. Sorry, I wasn't trying to be overly braggy here, but that's just one of my fondest memories of being "known" for something positive on my server. :D
Blackfuse was one of the best fights I've ever done, btw, I was one of the 4 hunters to do then belt, on our 25hc team, didn't see the fight at all, since I was only on the belt,,, :) I found it amazing
just wanted to say I really appreciate your videos. I came upon them randomly while listening to youtube gaming lists in the background at work. I played from Vanilla until early Wrath, and these videos bring back a lot of memories and have me considering reactivating my account...
Flame Leviathan was amazingly fun for my guild. The complexity of the different actions each driver needed to take was fun enough to be the highlight of my week and a worthy opener to WoW's best raid. Using the Saronite required tank players to shoot down the choppers then bike drivers to pick it up and bring it to the catapult players for ammo. Launching rogues and other DPS out of the catapult onto the boss to kill the flame jets while the vehicle drivers had to kite, and then the motorcycle drivers having to pick up the DPS after they got knocked off before they died by being on foot in all this madness was awesome.
I. HATED. Malygos. Oculus in raid form, ugh I hated it. Lady Vashj was also tedious to do, adds galore, finding the core to lower her shield and that damned root spell. My guild never got a chance to fight her pre-nerf (luckily) but she was still a long, tedious fight.
Glad someone mentioned Malygos. The stupid last phase riding the dragons was so dumb and I swear the hitbox on the thing you'd have to avoid was broken.
You are partly wrong on the Visidus part, it didnt take loads of frost damage, just a 100 frost hits (also from frost wands, frost shocks, rank 1 frostbolt etc. frost oil on melee weapons) So it was fairly easy to do. Same for the breaking of the ice, its not a dps check, it was needing an X amount of melee hits on it just like the frost part
Did anyone hate Cata Nef? It was such an easy fight, with Crackle being sooo very predictable and tanks having craptons of cd's, as a healer I blew all my cd's in p2 and just relaxed in p3. It was, however, a "one man fight" in p3, basically if you got there, no one but the offtank could realistically screw up, so yeah, that's a design mistake. But other than that, he was a fun little fight, and maybe even a little harder than Sinestra (who was really too easy mechanically. I mean, really. Stack up and sometimes run out?)
I always loved fights that require a specific class to be present or make some classes less efficient or redundant. Made classes special and unique and encouraged larger guilds with several raid groups. I understand why Blizzard abandoned that notion though.
My guild loved the faction champs, just because it was easily the most interesting fight in a terribly boring raid. Prince Malechazaar deserves at least an honorable mention, I feel. It's a boring tank-and-spank fight, BUT with completely random AOE hazards that can just destroy the raid right away. And if you're doing Kharazan at the intended level / difficulty (as the entry level raid for TBC, basically a 10-man heroic dungeon) then you don't have the burst DPS to just tear the Prince down. SO many wipes due to BS placement of those infernals.
If he hated heroic blackfuse, then G'huun must be on the list as well. That orb mechanic was so fucking bad. We cleared him once on heroic and called it a day, never touching Uldir again.
I haven't met someone that actually disliked Flame Leviathan as a fight. I figured it was universally agreed that it was fun, unlike Malygos' third phase.
It’s crazy to me that this video is 8 years old and that Heroic Garrosh is featured in the intro… has it really been that long since MoP? Time flies… though I guess that 8 years ago WoD was current content, which also doesn’t seem that long ago.
Deathwing is what happens when you up the power scale too much. I mean, KT, Illidan and Arthas all were hero characters from WC3, basically extremely powerful humanoid characters. It's easy to design horizontal fight around them. However, when it comes to dragons, you are basically gnawing their belly and ankles while avoiding their breath, wings and tail and that's how almost every dragon boss goes. For some reason none of them even have brains to stay airborne and circumwent WoW's janky 2D battle system. But that won't simply do when you face someone on size and importance of dragon aspect than thus we have Malygos and Deathwing. At the same time you can't just kill world-destroying dragon by scratching its ankles but you also can't do much else with WoW's combat system and thus you either do vehicle combat to circumvent it or catapult players to skin the dragon's back scales. So what I'm saying is that WoW shouldn't try to go beyond certain size of bosses to avoid such conflicts if they aren't willing to rewamp whole combat system. Otherwise the fight either feels or looks stupid or both like in Madness of DW
well, designwise i liked Madness (wasn't a fan of spine tho) the problem was just that the fight was boring AF. I would like to see a fight like this again, which is not even that unlikely since we might be facing N'zoth in the future and he's gigantic, but i don't want that fight to be as boring as Madness.
Four Horsemen was the worst one from a design perspective. It caused the server to suffer as it caused guilds to steal tanks just for that fight and the snowball effect hurt the entire server. The others provided a bad experience for the players fighting it, but the Four Horsemen provided a bad experience for all of the raiding guilds on their server too.
bro your videos are actually amazing. I watch them while leveling random characters, just because they're so nice to watch and distract myself from the horrible questing I'm doing haha.
Yeah this came out on my youtube today. Looked at it and wanted to comment that it was great. Only to realise i already did comment that 3 rows above 😃
Problem was it was extremely easy to loose your immortal run to FC compared to any other boss in the raid which was the hard part. Fuck up the pull and ud likely wipe in sub 30s.
I remember attempts for vanilla 4 horsemen. I remember waiting forever for us to gear up additional tanks, but... I really feel like there was a way to avoid needing the full 7-8. And yeah, I remember absolutely dreading Flame Leviathan and Faction Champs. I always wondered why Blizz never managed to get vehicles right. The problem with Faction Champions was 99% the aggro thing and the bosses just sprinting around in absolute chaos, ganking casters.
John Lyon Because the story around that whole place is just awful and the surroundings in the raid is so uninspiring. It has also to do with the million of dailies at the tournament ground you had to do to get all the rewards aswell as that raid is what we got instead of something awesome such as a raid on the entire Anub'Arak kingdom... forgot what it's called.
Every Boss was time gated. It took 5 weeks to see the Final Boss of this Raid and then you had to grind it in all 4 goddamn Difficulties if you where a Progress Raider like me and my Guild... also the Final Boss on 25 Heroic was a bitch and a half until the Paladin "102%-104% avoidance abuse" was known because the adds killed every tank that wasnt a specific equiped Paladin in less then a second if they didnt rotate with Defensive Cooldowns. Also they where really hard to kill until your DPS where well equiped enough with Heroic Gear from previous bosses or the 10man Version. If you used 4-5 Tanks (to seperate the adds) for this Fight it was btw impossible to kill Anub before the Enrage timer kicked in :P
Remember, TotGC wasn't meant to be good, it was meant to 1) hold over while they finished making ICC 2) Explain why they weren't doing an Anzol' Nerub raid (they originally planned on it, but it was taking too much time. People wanted to see ICC so they pushed it aside to work on ICC.)
+CatalystGamingUK Honestly, for me, nothing tops SoO. Its the absolute shittiest raid ive ever done. Mostly because of all the trash and it being the only content we got for a time that felt like 2 years. Holy shit i hated MoP....
I liked siegecrafter. It was extremely busy and one of the few fights that made me feel extremely panicked/under pressure. Most fights now are just execution and can be done cleanly. There isn't enough random in them or at least pseudo-random(like in this fight where there are a lot of mechanics that have to be dealt with impromptu and forced some lack of coordination, even from the best guilds.
Riley Tucker Another good example of this was, at least before your group had it DOWN, was Heroic Baleroc. I also think that, in some ways, Paragons was the worst fight in SoO, even though I didn't try to get in a good guild that was doing heroics then, solely because it had SoO many mechanics to memorize.
+kintai1000 The random comes more from where you had to drop the blades because later on in the fight shit just got hectic and you couldn't always drop your blade right where you're supposed to. I know there's almost no true random in raid bosses, but it forces pseudo-random by causing chaos and making it too hard to try to completely control things to make it viable to. I like fights where it forces you to fuck up and learn to deal with the fuck up as opposed to just almost no margin for error.
As a mw monk, I absolutely loved malkorok. I had a bunch of mobility to deal with mechanics. As well as active mitigation to deal with the raid wide dmg he put out. Not to mention my renewing mist could travel the entire platform making uplift very powerful. aaaaaaaaand.... starting out with xuen + revival kept everyone at full shields for basically the next 45 seconds. I didn't just win every single mythic kill of this in my guild on the healing meters, I dominated them.
I don't actually know anyone who's ever complained about Netherspite or Rhyolith, or Cata Nef... And I never had the problems other people seemed to with Faction champs (not that I liked it).
Rhyolith people complained about until they figured out how to deal with him. Like my group, assign ONE person to steer him, everyone else IGNORE him until the person steering him gets him to run over all the volcanos. Problem is, people don't like 'sit and wait' mechanics. And yeah, if too many people tried to drive rhyolith, they could fuck the fight up. Netherspite was annoying because it was in a 10 man. It's raid mechanic was more apt for a 25 even if the damage done was okay for a barely geared 10. Like, take the netherportals into BFA or something with the same exact mechanic and it would feel more balanced as you're dancing that debuff amongst more people and not such a small group.
In the PTR for Firelands, we (Supermassive) spent most of our time testing Rhyolith giving active feedback to Watcher who was there watching us do attempts (since we spent more time on that boss than anyone else, and it was... well... Rhyolith). The fight could've been so much worse than what eventually got released if it had been even a bit closer to what was originally released on the PTR. The mechanics didn't change much, but the rules for how and where volcanoes could spawn, and the math behind converting DPS on a leg into a turning direction was really, really bad without hours of testing.
The idea of raiding and killing bosses, to me at least, is to overcome a nearly impossible obstacle. Heroic Blackfuse was hard as fuck, and I've never been more proud of a kill. I liked the fight. The movement, the shielding I could do for my teammates both as a shadow or disc priest, the adds and single target dmg. We had 300 tries on the boss, and so many were complaining, and sure, it's never fun to wipe 300 times on the same boss, but when I think back I must say that it was a well designed fight. The gimmicks are exactly what made the kill prestigious. No pain no gain
I think there should be more bosses like these. People are so fucking boring. They just want the same thing over and over again. Taunt when you get this and that many stacks, take two steps to the side to avoid something on the ground and blow heroism at x minute mark... yawn.
I quite literally loved every single one of these. Never hated or even disliked any of the bosses in WoW. Not entirely sure how someone can. They're a delight to fight against, something you only get to do with a large group of people once or twice a week (depending on how quick you go through everything) and are scarce.
Trying to solo it is hard, when it was current content it was a cake walk and took like 2 minuites. It wasn't intended to be solo'd as are any raid bosses.
Dean Allen is correct, the chess event was extremely easy for a 10-man raid. It was so easy everyone considered the fight to be free loot and an opportunity to take a brief break from serious raiding. The only reason someone would think this is ‘worst’ is if they tried to solo it, which is admittedly a pain to do.
I loved the 4 horsemen... the top guilds of the time actually worked together to find a way to kill these... it is the only time I know we did this. My most hated raid was "Throne of the Four Winds"
To clarify something a bit, I hope you don't mind: 4HM explanation is wrong, you can easily do the fight with Furys in Tier 2 gear (which they will have at that point). Just have the normal 'MTs' and the best geared Fury tanking Mograine+Thane Korthazz. Also you are talking about the Tier 3 4set bonus, this does not mean that Taunt can't resist it's just down to 11% resist chance (from 16%).
Haven't watched yet, but I expect to see the following: Madness of Deathwing - Wasted potential Immerseus - Long and boring Heart of Fear in general - Long and boring, no stand out fights. Lord Rhyolith - Boring Valithria Dreamwalker from a DPS standpoint - Boring Gothik the Harvester - Long and boring Flame Leviathan - Vehicle fight, nuff said. Ultraxion - Very easy if people knew how to press a button, and the hardest boss in the game if they didn't. Having watched, I have to say I didn't hate faction champions. Well, I will agree it's probably the most annoying fight in there, but I wasn't bored on it at least. I'd say the first fight in ToC is worse.
I actually liked Flame Leviathan. It was a good quick easy fight to get into the raiding mood every night we went to Ulduar. And if you went for hard mode, it was actually really entertaining and it was a fun switch from my usual duties as a healer. I hated the the dragon on the right right after it a hell of a lot though.
I actually kind of liked blackfuse, it was a strange combination of hectic and reminded me of the one dance fight in Naxxramas with its 'world in flame' mechanic (that they used a fair bit in MoP tbh), especially on heroic. Probably just old raid nostalgia now.
I know you were joking about nobody liking Heroic Siegecrafter, but a lot of people actually like it. The belts were seriously a joke, if you had at least 1 hunter/warlock for 10 man and 2 for 25. The "dumb one shot mechanic" is a pattern of lasers that goes from right to left. I think a competent raider can handle differentiating between left and right.
The name of the song played in the background on Heroic Blackfuse, which you can start hearing at around 9:30 is "Dance of the Pixies". Was trying to find that out ages ago and just ran into it!
I know some of these are way after this video, but here is my list. 1. Paragons of the Klaxxi 2. Faction Champions 3. Helfire Assault 4. Madness of Deathwing 5. Siegecrafter Blackfuse 6. Viscidus 7. Spoils of Pandaria 8. The Blast Furnace 9. Flame Leviathan 10. Spine of Deathwing
Worst for me would have to be Thok. As a healer it wasn't fun at all and if any raid member missed one healing cooldown it could easily result in a wipe. It was a very rigid encounter with little room to improvise.
Typical Disc Priest, complaining about the 2 fights that make them not OP (Tortos/Malk), when they are the clear leader to most every other fight in existence.
+Treeman Grizz disc priest are funny, they seems to think that they are some super healers despite their healing is automatically done by dealing damage and the healing itself sucks anyway, holy is still better and far more entertaining.
@Louise Hayle last time I did any raiding as disc nothing but a pally could touch the burst healing of disc. Granted I haven't played it since atonement was implemented as a major component, it was a cool offheal imo for low damage phases but I find the required use of it as a primary mechanic horrendous.
so here we are in classic TBC and we don't skip netherspite because our group has it down so well that we one shot. honestly if you can one shot it, it's a really fun fight mechanic wise when you think about it. tanks get to dance, dps get to swap, healers get to dance (if you do the green beam the way we do). it's super fun. intimidating because it's easy to mess up, but fun.
Blackfuse is the best Boss in WoW. Flame Leviathan hard mode was amazing. ok so what we have seen here is you hate anything that needs more then two brain cells the champions did not need healing reduction to do that fight it was such an easy fight only had 3 wipes on it you just hate hard fun fights
Not gonna lie; Blackfuse was one of my favorite fights ever designed. The tuning was near perfect. Personal responsibility was extremely high. Also it wasn't boring! Although I was the belt guy so I feel your pain if your belt people are failing and you can't do anything about it. Nice video =)
Interesting you mention Nef in BWD being bad because it required your raid to not spam dps and pay attention to boss hp, I personally LOVED that fight, even though my guild spent 4 nights straight wiping on him. I thought the hardest part wasn't the lava, but phase three when I had to kite the skeletons around and let them die without touching the fire. At one point during our encounters, it became solely up to me until I learned the perfect path till we finally got him down
+Flan Murray We generally agree about the subjective nature of this list although tank requirement for vanilla 4 horsemen was a mistake, and Viscidus (but optional so meh). Who would you nominate for this list? I'd pick Hydross from Serpentshrine Cavern for basically the same reason as Viscidus. Yes, I played ele.
My worst fights.... in no order 1) Sindragosa. The whole debuff preventing high dps was counterintuitive. 2) Everything Highmaul. It was uninspired and most of the mechanics were either overtuned or too numerous to really feel like a theme. Like they just had to throw shit in there just to throw shit in there. A lot of bosses abilities and fights didn't make thematic sense. Does that make sense? 3) Spine of deathwing:/ Madness. Spine I hated because the graphics made me feel disoriented to the point I had to look at a way to turn off the clouds in the background. Besides that, it started making me realize they were turning Deathwing away from being a dragon and more into just an abomination. Madness, you're fighting tentacles, no dragon... wtf. Also, it's ridiculously long. 4) Thaddius. If you were playing a class that didn't have a movement speed buff, jumping off that platform was super risky. Also, at the time I had a really shitty computer with some lag so if I mistimed my step even further, I'd end up in the acid. This fight actually forced me to get a good computer just for that jump. It still was bad, but not AS bad. 5)Halion: Despite the lack of relevancy Ruby dragonshrine had in Wotlk and now feels like such a throw away raid, Halion punishing you for having great members in one half and not so great in another felt like such jacked up shit. So, sometimes, in a 10 man you'd have to send 3 bottom and 7 top.... to balance out a group... what? Others would be 5/5. Either way, if you had to balance out 3 bottom and 7 top for instance it made it that much harder on the 3 BECAUSE THEY'RE BETTER THAN THE OTHER 7. IT should feel harder on the other 7, not the other way around. 6) I forget which one, but it was either the third or fourth of the Hyjal raid that I couldn't stand at the time, mainly due to a bug where some enemies would go to evade and reset the whole gauntlet, or similar, the boss would either evade and reset the whole gauntlet and sometimes the boss would preemptively spawn while the gauntlet is still going on. It was a mess before they fixed most of the bugs on that fight. 7) Manneroth: Hellfire citadel. This may be because of how balance druid's balance meter ran, but it was extremely annoying either mode to deal with the large amount of running, all the timing having to use celestial alignment to push arcane phase for AoE, etc. It got to the point I just used heart of the wild and went kitty thrash for AoE (the one at 30% before the push). It was just bad design, but probably more because of Moonkin bad design than the fight itself. However, the right still had way too much running around and I'm also not fond of fights where you have to fight near a ledge and allies can screw up and do something that pushes you off. 8)Saurfang/Nazgrim: I couldn't stand it from a lore perspective... 9) Sinestra: mainly cause of all the talking. The fight mechanically was fine, it's just omg would those two shut the fuck up already?! 10) Megaera: It was so looong and so Booooring.
Disagree with quite a few of these: Nefarion, Blackfuse, Madness of Deathwing, Flame Leviathan and Lord Rhyolith. To each their own, but thematically and engagement wise, I felt all of those were fun. Tortos is a pain as a caster, I'll fully admit to him pissing me off with the turtle shells and bat's silence. Not sure if your ending comment was to be cheeky/tongue-in-cheek, but w/e :p If I had to list 10 "worst" bosses imo it be something more (in no particular order) 10.Vanilla Grand Widow (immensely annoying to heal on as a Druid) 9.Fankriss The Unyielding (reskinned boss with boring mechanics) 8.Malygos 7.Valithria Sreamwalker (a snooze fight and unremarkable) 6.M'uru 5.Shade of Akama (talk about a rushed boss fight fight) 4.Illidari Council (was immensely annoying trying to get people to execute properly and nothing special is in the encounter) 3.Lei Shi (talk about testing one's patience) 2.Gothik The Harvester ( this one also is a test of patience, back an forth, only killing mobs majority of the fight) 1.Viscidus (idiotic mechanics even when it was current content, making many casters useless).
It's funny you mention the vanilla mechanic in #1 I'm surprised people didn't love that, seeing as Vanilla is apparently so fucking amazing and perfect and everything xD
One of the worst fights in my eyes was that amber-guy from heart of fear. We had a lot of people who had trouble with their interfaces in that fight - ok, that's a personal fault, not blizzard's problem. But in general, as a semi-progress group back then, we just knew, we would wipe, if certain people got into the vehicles, who most of the time were not that bad of a player. Blackfuse was the boss that killed my old raidgroup, that had been there since classic (i joined later). It was the moment, the 2 key players decided: ok, that's it. We don't enjoy this anymore. And more and more people not show up to the raid, which had not happened before. For a very long time, we raided 10 man with 11 people and all 11 were ALWAYS there. If there was an emergancy, there usually was already a backup player organized, which was very rare. But on blackfuse we even had one tank flat out refusing to play in that fight - unthinkable before. Now I have seen this more often. Attitudes change. So there was something about this fight, that made people feel like it was a waste of their time to progress on it. I was playing rogue... i did NOT have fun in that fight. But I have the same with Gorefiend now - i have to do the people outside and if i mess up once, until 2 month ago, that was a wipe. Now there was a tiny nerf and with better equip its easier to handle my fails. right now I am wiping on mannoroth myth and i really dislike this fight, because it comes down to perfect timing and movement. But not... difficult movement, just coordination and has to be practiced like a dance... I do not mind difficult movement-bosses! But mannoroth feels... weirdly boring albeit currently being (at least for me) a difficult boss. I also feel that i cannot influence the outcome as much as it felt on other bosses. Luckily, the wipes are quite fast. But aside from Gorefiend (for personal reasons) this is the fight i dislike the most in progress i this addon.
Oh my goodness... I had almost completely forgotten about Faction Champs. Personally, that's my most hated fight in all of WoW, and that's because I didn't raid in Mists. Oooh.... oooh, I had JUST started tanking in Wrath as well, and I felt so helpless in that fight. :sigh: At least raids aren't like that now.
After having done Classic 4 horsemen, i can say for sure that it is one of the better fights in classic....IF you are prepared for it. Getting 8 ZG fish-boss trinkets and forcing the DPS warriors to take on tanking duties isn't hard if everybody knows it is coming. If you don't know, then it is probably a lot worse. The execution of the fight itself is quite fun, and one of the most involved fights in all of vanilla. It's just a great time.
So i have noticed that most footage in your videos is on low settings and still runs at like 10 FPS even though that player is alone in the raid... is it recorded on a 10 year old notebook or what? ;)
I loved flame leviathan, the transition phase of Nefarion (though the other phases had an underwhelming hard mode, but you just stop slightly before the pillar and wait till the lava is almost at the top and hold space bar for the transition. Then you can make it in one attempt pretty guaranteed), and liked some elements of faction champions (didn't like so much how the fight actually slowed down and got easier the further through the fight you got, or the rng-ness of getting a bad set of classes to fight against for the week). Everything else I am on page with.
I actually really love fights like Viscidus. Actually needing to use flavorful abilities to tackle and defeat a boss is a far better rpg feeling than dodge the red carpet.
Viscidus is still a pain in the ass to do but I learned a neat little trick for you fellow frost mages out there. As a frost mage we have no issue getting Viscidus frozen, its shattering him with physical damage thats the issue. The solution is to walk outside the room and mount up on a vendor mount. Buy the 1-3 damage dagger and when you freeze him just bloodlust and shank the shit out of him.
I find this video funny because you included some of my personal best boss fights in wow. Like tortos, ryolith and madness. Even Leviathan was really enjoyable.
I've explained the two deathwing fights to people in real life, starting with the following disclaiming "What I'm about to explain sounds like the coolest things in the world, but somehow, blizz found a way to make them both the most boring things possible."
I know that you're kind of right, but it's so hard for me to accept. Dragon soul was the first time I managed to down a heroic end game boss pre patch and I guess nostalgia just takes over. I even dare say I miss dragon soul, I AM THE CATACLYSM. Epic but kinda boring raid I guess.
madness was mostly fine just a little anti climactic for what it was (fighting a corrupted dragon in the middle of the whirlpool in the middle of the sea with the other dragons he turned against lol), his back however was miserable to do during progression. Could just be i hated being a rogue and having to pull the small adds to stack on the larger.
And they said "how did you get into my house?"
And then…….So’leah came into the picture and I am ready to @&$%ing strangle Blizzard for this! She doesn’t fire her beams AT ALL if you’re going in there solo! 💢💢💢
@truman0725 I think it was killer. I didn't even participate pre patch. But even farming it now for mounts I find it to be such a cool fight and couldn't imagine the level of stress figuring it out. Would've been fun af imo
Noooo! Blackfuse was literally my favorite fight ever on my hunter. I got that sequence down like a champ, and then had fun disengaging on and off it. Made me feel all important and special and shit.
I didn't love the fight, but I don't hate it. I was a Destro Warlock at the time and was on belt duty. 50+ wipes on heroic AT LEAST (it was probably a lot more, but I think I blocked those memories) - and mostly due to a few of the worst DPS'ers standing in dumb places and dying to avoidable damage.
But the belt squad I worked with? Flawless 95% of the time. And I'd even be cheeky and put the debuff on the boss before the belt phase that let me cleave him a little because our burst damage was so good on the belt (I can't remember its name, its been so long since then and I switched class since).
I absolutely hated it. For some reason the guild thought that I, the arms warrior, should be the one to go on the conveyor belt. Why the warrior. Why
Did this as a hunter and healer, was one of my favorite fights of all time. Guy in this vid is an idiot lmao
I'm right with you - I was always assigned to the belt; Blackfuse was not a problem and we didn't hate it. He did have too much trash to pull beforehand, though.
I loved this fight as a hunter
"Some people actually liked faction champions"
My then current guild and I loved that fight. Had no idea people despised it so much...
People = hirumaredx and his 1-3 friends. Their opinion = opinion of world.
Same here.
housemastah Yeah I enjoyed it a lot
housemastah i thought the same of seigecrafter, from what i was able to tell most peope liked the fights cause it was something new and made you have to pay attention.
housemastah Depends what class I did it on. Did ToTC on all 10 classes and have to say it was great fun on my rogue. I really didn't enjoy it on my main mage though as I couldn't do as much.
The realization that Spine of Deathwing consists of us players fighting aggressive dragon back acne kinda ruined it for me D:
Ugh, horrible mental image! Somebody call dr pimple popper...😅
after 30min of wiping at 4horseman at naxx, our offtank asks "who's the boss here?"
lol
Angela
Naxx's trash mobs were worse than the bosses, especially if you wore Leather/Cloth, since their AoE DOTs would usually do more damage than you had max Health. Healers would obviously have to prioritize themselves and Tanks, so DPS usually had issues - Druids were also trash at Mana efficiency to Healin ratios, so they weren't much use outside of Abolish Poison and Hot Rez. Shaman's weren't great (Nature Based), either, but at least they had Totems.
@@Taintedmind i can't agree on that almost at all. The only ever problem we had with adds were in the plague wing and that wa sonly because that specific wing had an onslaught of stuff you had to kill before pulling the bosd. Most other wings were nowhere close to as hard as the bosses back then, especially Stallagg and Feugen were a nightmare if one of you screwed up.
@@Shikaschima
Mostly AoE venom spitters were the issue. Death Wing was pretty easy, since most of them were just Warriors/non-castin DKs.
I am one of those crazies who liked faction champs. By far one of my favorite bosses.
ME TOO!
+Bill Jensen I loved that fight so much i pvped and pved however so when the mobs attacked me as a healing druid i knew how to get out :)
+Bill Jensen
Ohhh, i really liked that fight, too. But I was also pvping as a healing priest back then (... i can't even remember, which spec, probably disc in wrath ; ) ) - so I felt super-cool to be able to handle all the stuns and CC. But I understood the frustration of all the raid members, who did not do pvp.
Nowadays I would probably be annoyed, because I don't do pvp anymore (and play a different class).
+Bill Jensen +1 on that! Faction Champs is the only fight in the game that not just tests you as a player, but also actively teaches you how to be better. No fight has even nearly the same level of tactical complexity. My favourite moment in all of WoW was forming the strategy to down these guys for the first time.
+Bill Jensen My side !!! loved it
Im surprised to say that I agree with 90% on the list. But, I absolutely loved Blackfuse.
But, if Blizz makes a new addition to PvE like PvP champs, why would that be bad? It only indicates that players dont want to try anything new in PvE, but constant tank switch on sunders and avoid standing in shit?
As mele dps that fight was not that bad, Just avoid few things and dps boss. Even as tank it was ok. Switch and dps add, and try to bring it to damage dealing things. I have been mostely mele dpsing or tanking it. But ones that go to belt are under high pressure and barely touch the boss. Not my favorite fight in that raid, but not the worst. For me, personaly, worst was klaxxi. As tank you had to remember names and abilities they do, and 9 of them have awful names. XD
Blackfuse would have to be on my top 3 bosses from SoO. I played a hunter during SoO, and in the beginning I was absolutley terrified of the thought of doing the assembly line. It was during this fight I really got to know my fellow hunters in the guild, we stayed 12 hours a week on that belt. lol.
Imo the worst fight from SoO have to be Spoils of Pandaria. Tanks blaming each other, healers blaming each other. One side pointing fingers at the other side. Easy once you got the hang of it, and then it just became boring.
i liked faction champions as a warlock except for the times when they all swapped me and instagibbed me so yeah..i understand why people dont like it.
For the vanilla 4 Horsemen warriors didn't need the 4 set bonus from a previous raid. They needed the 4 set bonus from THAT raid.
Came here to say this. This guy consistently makes false statements in his videos. The 4 set was from warrior t3, and t3 drops in Naxx.
Yea, the previous non-AQ40 40-man sets were all 3/5/8 - I was wonderin why he missed that one.
@@Taintedmind cuz he doesnt actually play. He gets 2nd hand info
@@jacobkeller7172 yall the video is 7 years old, tf yall bugging about??
@@jacobkeller7172 Yes he did get his horseman information as 2nd hand because he started playing in wrath and this video was made before classic so he didn't have experience of the fight, that doesn't mean he doesn't play the game at all.
"No one liked Seigecrafter"
Seigecrafter is universally acclaimed by hardcore raiders as one of the best fights in the history of WoW. Can't agree with you at all on that one.
Nobody asked the 1%. Everyone else ((especially in LFR)) hated it. Seigecrafter the Raid Killer
I loved the fight
Not even the hardcore. Most raiders feel it was one of the best fights ever.
@@orinlee6123 lfr raiders should probably try to be a bit above terrible at the game
I agree, Blackfuse HC was actually my fav fight of all time, doing the belt as a hunter back then 😎
I remember doing netherspite when I was like 12 and thought it was a really complex fight hahaha
Du bist halt auch überall.
I absolutely HATE lady vashj, for those who dont know once you hit her she goes immune, then you must -
1. Stop water from getting to her, or she gets damage buff.
2. Kill marsh walkers that can fear
3. Loot mobs that are almost identical to the regular ones.
4. Take the loot and use it on something to break her shield, do that 4 times.
After that it's very simple, but to this day i hate the fight because of how long it is.
KittenCritters Even so, remember that this list is talking about when this bosses were current content.
***** Actually its easy 2 see wich 1 2loot The once you can loot are the ranged 1 that cast poison, Also rem they go stealth if try melee hit them xd
*****
I think I started to maniacally laugh on our second vashj try because that boss encounter was so freaking awesome.
Though usually I was either healing (lots of stuff to do, great encounter to go all out as healer) or killing/kiting striders as shadow priest and doing a little damage to the adds.
Playing the encounter as DD was … boring. We reduced the amount of healers to an absolute minimum, meaning that all the adds just exploded and you rarely could even use a full rotation on your targets before you had to target switch. Boring and annoying. Luckily I normally had the good jobs in that encounter *g*
vashj was my second favorite boss in tbc and honestly probably overall (only next to kael'thas) i was kiting striders every fight and it was a great fight imo.
The difference is Lady Vashj only really needed half the raid to know what to do. One person wasn't going to wipe Lady Vashj. Now, if all 25 people knew what to do, Lady Vashj dropped pretty fast so it wasn't a complete BS gimmick fight like a lot on this list.
Heroic Blackfuse was one of my favorite fights in SoO. I was on belt group and I loved it.
I played WW Monk which means WW monks 1 and 2 just afked and trans'd up and down the belt killing adds and doing nothing else. That fight is super boring
I liked Blackfuse. It separated the bad from the good players, especially on heroic difficulty.
Chris Current And the players that played hours of frogger in their childhood
Chris Current Everyone hates that fight, are you the best dps? your on the belt. Good luck everything depends on you doing the best dps to the boss and the components and not being even remotely overwhelmed and making a fractional spacing mistake that instagibbed you.
Are you a healer? the two most important people in your raid are unreachable to heal and your already running basically everywhere to avoid mechanics in a fight where the tank MUST be taking damage directly to the face to avoid a wipe.
Are you the tank? congratz, while in a wild panic about the dps on the belt going okay, you have to tank the boss and avoid ground mechanics and tank swap while 1 tank has to literally be on the other side of the entire room.
Are you a nominal dps? Why the fuck arent you good enough to be on the belt? why are you here? what are you doing with your life, Your literally and figuratively a failure. Also be 100% ready to suddenly have to go onthe belt incase one of the people on the belt makes a fractional mistake and dies. You totally know the belt right? because even though we only ever send to the top 2 dps week after week your a dps and should know instantly how to handle the belt to avoid a wipe.
It was a no win scenario no matter what spot you played.
Nobody could sit and focus on their own jobs because everyone had to be ready to compensate for everyone else's job's.
SeditiousSpyke
It was so common in vanilla and bc to have specific important people in a boss fight that I guess many people will not have minded this at all.
Interrupt rotations, tank rotations, healer rotations, etc … and 40/25 man raids that will wipe if the player can not do his job. And tanks used to play that role anyway most of the time.
With how common interrupt rotations became in BC you rogues were often in the same position.
It did not sound to bad actually, just annoying when you play with bad players. And hey at least it limits the failing state to just 2 players. Imagine when you have attention checks for all 25/40 players that will wipe the raid when failed. *grin
Good times.
Traumglanz I have nightmare rifts in RIFT for that.
SeditiousSpyke if heroic was bad, remember that you had to actually go up to people and tell them how to do everything, what to kill and when to go to the belt in LFR. Nobody had a clue of what was going on and almost never succeeded. Unless your healers were crazy good it was an almost certain wipe on LFR. LFR was such a bad choice....It lead to 85% of my wipes...
Bruh...
Spine of deathwing is faaaaar worst than madness...
He does stupid shit, but we love him anyway.
disagree, you actually had to focus on Spine, it was entirely execution based and a big fat dps check (like Ultraxion, another one I liked) Even on hc difficulty, you could fall asleep on Madness. Too long and too repetetive.
Apart from requiring me to play mage spine was like dipping heroin, the rush,the numbers lol!
Madness was boring af
They both suck, but Spine is probably the worst fight in all my time playing WoW. Half the fight on heroic is DPS afking and waiting till they're supposed to burst.
@@Zeldarulah I'll bet your healers were stunned more than they had to be 😕
I fucking loved blackfuse, although i did do belt every single time, its arguably my favourite boss in SoO
same here... loved his mechanic and as Rogue back than it was perfect for me on the belt ^^
As a disc priest, depending on usually hunters to do this mechanic, made me hate that shit.
I'm seeing a theme here. People who liked the fight were on belt duty. Everyone who hated it wasn't.
Thank goodness I was on belt duty.
FACTION CHAMPS!!! Holy shit, that takes me back. I used to be in a top-end raiding guild in WotLK and would pug ToC on the weekends on my tank. After loads of trial and error, I remember finally devising a fool proof strategy for that fight (you couldn't ask me what it was now... this was years ago) and would consistently lead every pug to one-shotting it in 25-man groups. That alt run would literally fill up in less than 10 minutes because every DPS on the server was begging to join. Ahh, the good ol' days. Sorry, I wasn't trying to be overly braggy here, but that's just one of my fondest memories of being "known" for something positive on my server. :D
I developed like, the best strategy that resulted in one shots. No, I don’t know what the strategy was 🤷♀️
Blackfuse was one of the best fights I've ever done, btw, I was one of the 4 hunters to do then belt, on our 25hc team, didn't see the fight at all, since I was only on the belt,,, :) I found it amazing
just wanted to say I really appreciate your videos. I came upon them randomly while listening to youtube gaming lists in the background at work. I played from Vanilla until early Wrath, and these videos bring back a lot of memories and have me considering reactivating my account...
Thanks! I do pander heavily towards nostalgia so you'll love most of my videos!
Mythic Blast Furnace? or Blast Furnace in general
he said heroic which was out before mythic but they are essentially the same but heroic was easier
Blackhand is worst.
why is blackhand the worst. why do you think its so bad is it because you suck and you cant kill him?
Trueshotz You got me
Trueshotz Did you just say Mythic blast furnace is easier than Heroic blast furnace? ...Are you trolling or just that fucking stupid?
I liked Flame Leviathan :l
+ScrubLord Adisx Noone cares
+ScrubLord Adisx Yeah FL was one of my favorite boss fights
Using vehicles in wow is very annoying as you can't play the character you want to play.
Flame Leviathan was amazingly fun for my guild. The complexity of the different actions each driver needed to take was fun enough to be the highlight of my week and a worthy opener to WoW's best raid.
Using the Saronite required tank players to shoot down the choppers then bike drivers to pick it up and bring it to the catapult players for ammo.
Launching rogues and other DPS out of the catapult onto the boss to kill the flame jets while the vehicle drivers had to kite, and then the motorcycle drivers having to pick up the DPS after they got knocked off before they died by being on foot in all this madness was awesome.
I. HATED. Malygos.
Oculus in raid form, ugh I hated it.
Lady Vashj was also tedious to do, adds galore, finding the core to lower her shield and that damned root spell. My guild never got a chance to fight her pre-nerf (luckily) but she was still a long, tedious fight.
Glad someone mentioned Malygos. The stupid last phase riding the dragons was so dumb and I swear the hitbox on the thing you'd have to avoid was broken.
Nice list! The only one I really miss is Archimonde in Mount Hyjal. What a horribly designed fight with pure frustration for everyone
You are partly wrong on the Visidus part, it didnt take loads of frost damage, just a 100 frost hits (also from frost wands, frost shocks, rank 1 frostbolt etc. frost oil on melee weapons) So it was fairly easy to do.
Same for the breaking of the ice, its not a dps check, it was needing an X amount of melee hits on it just like the frost part
SlayerTheDarkOne south the fuck up
@@masonjones7070 Fuck you
I liked the fight
you literally put ALL OF MY FAVOURITE BOSSES ON THIS LIST, GOOD JOB DUDE
Did anyone hate Cata Nef? It was such an easy fight, with Crackle being sooo very predictable and tanks having craptons of cd's, as a healer I blew all my cd's in p2 and just relaxed in p3. It was, however, a "one man fight" in p3, basically if you got there, no one but the offtank could realistically screw up, so yeah, that's a design mistake. But other than that, he was a fun little fight, and maybe even a little harder than Sinestra (who was really too easy mechanically. I mean, really. Stack up and sometimes run out?)
Siegemaster Blackfuse was the best boss in SoO :( (over 150 wipes on hc)
We had like 30 wipes, but 150 wipes on Garrosh. I actually liked Seigemaster, i was DPS on the belt tho
I always loved fights that require a specific class to be present or make some classes less efficient or redundant. Made classes special and unique and encouraged larger guilds with several raid groups. I understand why Blizzard abandoned that notion though.
My guild loved the faction champs, just because it was easily the most interesting fight in a terribly boring raid.
Prince Malechazaar deserves at least an honorable mention, I feel. It's a boring tank-and-spank fight, BUT with completely random AOE hazards that can just destroy the raid right away. And if you're doing Kharazan at the intended level / difficulty (as the entry level raid for TBC, basically a 10-man heroic dungeon) then you don't have the burst DPS to just tear the Prince down. SO many wipes due to BS placement of those infernals.
This top 10 needs a remix. Surely some bosses in the last 5 years have had some influence on a list
If he hated heroic blackfuse, then G'huun must be on the list as well. That orb mechanic was so fucking bad. We cleared him once on heroic and called it a day, never touching Uldir again.
I liked faction champs a lot, lol.
The best part was arguing about the kill order. Xd
I feel like raiders just complained about it because they hated PvP, and is why the PvE. As a PvPer, this fight is super cool.
I haven't met someone that actually disliked Flame Leviathan as a fight. I figured it was universally agreed that it was fun, unlike Malygos' third phase.
It’s crazy to me that this video is 8 years old and that Heroic Garrosh is featured in the intro… has it really been that long since MoP? Time flies… though I guess that 8 years ago WoD was current content, which also doesn’t seem that long ago.
I actually really like Flame Leviathan because of the teamwork that is needed between the drivers (and passangers) of all 3 vehicle types.
Same. I never understood the hate for vehicle mechanics in Wotlk. I'm probably one of like 10 people on the planet that liked doing Oculus.
Man your classic wow videos really take me back. Good stuff, you should do one about the arcnite reaper/bars.
Deathwing is what happens when you up the power scale too much. I mean, KT, Illidan and Arthas all were hero characters from WC3, basically extremely powerful humanoid characters. It's easy to design horizontal fight around them. However, when it comes to dragons, you are basically gnawing their belly and ankles while avoiding their breath, wings and tail and that's how almost every dragon boss goes. For some reason none of them even have brains to stay airborne and circumwent WoW's janky 2D battle system. But that won't simply do when you face someone on size and importance of dragon aspect than thus we have Malygos and Deathwing. At the same time you can't just kill world-destroying dragon by scratching its ankles but you also can't do much else with WoW's combat system and thus you either do vehicle combat to circumvent it or catapult players to skin the dragon's back scales.
So what I'm saying is that WoW shouldn't try to go beyond certain size of bosses to avoid such conflicts if they aren't willing to rewamp whole combat system. Otherwise the fight either feels or looks stupid or both like in Madness of DW
well, designwise i liked Madness (wasn't a fan of spine tho) the problem was just that the fight was boring AF. I would like to see a fight like this again, which is not even that unlikely since we might be facing N'zoth in the future and he's gigantic, but i don't want that fight to be as boring as Madness.
if you're wondering about power scale then we already killed a titan
Four Horsemen was the worst one from a design perspective. It caused the server to suffer as it caused guilds to steal tanks just for that fight and the snowball effect hurt the entire server. The others provided a bad experience for the players fighting it, but the Four Horsemen provided a bad experience for all of the raiding guilds on their server too.
What is that addon that got 5 - 8 just right below to your toon? is that a range indicator?
its called range display I think
Oregorger fits perfectly in this list....
Fuck that thing
My favorite wow fight is heroic (the real heroic) blackfuse, I really loved the difficulty
So mythic?
bro your videos are actually amazing.
I watch them while leveling random characters, just because they're so nice to watch and distract myself from the horrible questing I'm doing haha.
Faction champions was an amazing concept. Entirey different „pve/pvp“, for me it was a lot of fun.
I absolutely LOVED doing belt as a hunter, and the Sigecrafter fight as a whole
Blackfuse was one of my favorite fights. So many mechanics and very little room for error. It was a VERY fulfilling kill.
Yeah this came out on my youtube today. Looked at it and wanted to comment that it was great. Only to realise i already did comment that 3 rows above 😃
FL was fine, Malygos is the one people should hate lmao.
Faction Champions was way too easy, the idea behind it was great.
Problem was it was extremely easy to loose your immortal run to FC compared to any other boss in the raid which was the hard part. Fuck up the pull and ud likely wipe in sub 30s.
Can’t wait for this to be updated
I loved the old 4 horsemen.
I remember attempts for vanilla 4 horsemen. I remember waiting forever for us to gear up additional tanks, but... I really feel like there was a way to avoid needing the full 7-8. And yeah, I remember absolutely dreading Flame Leviathan and Faction Champs. I always wondered why Blizz never managed to get vehicles right. The problem with Faction Champions was 99% the aggro thing and the bosses just sprinting around in absolute chaos, ganking casters.
I love Trial of the Grand Crusader :/ I still don't understand why people don't like it.
John Lyon Because the story around that whole place is just awful and the surroundings in the raid is so uninspiring. It has also to do with the million of dailies at the tournament ground you had to do to get all the rewards aswell as that raid is what we got instead of something awesome such as a raid on the entire Anub'Arak kingdom... forgot what it's called.
it was directly after ulduar, and it was the first raid in which you pressed a button and for the difficulty to be changed, super lame
Every Boss was time gated. It took 5 weeks to see the Final Boss of this Raid and then you had to grind it in all 4 goddamn Difficulties if you where a Progress Raider like me and my Guild... also the Final Boss on 25 Heroic was a bitch and a half until the Paladin "102%-104% avoidance abuse" was known because the adds killed every tank that wasnt a specific equiped Paladin in less then a second if they didnt rotate with Defensive Cooldowns. Also they where really hard to kill until your DPS where well equiped enough with Heroic Gear from previous bosses or the 10man Version. If you used 4-5 Tanks (to seperate the adds) for this Fight it was btw impossible to kill Anub before the Enrage timer kicked in :P
Remember, TotGC wasn't meant to be good, it was meant to 1) hold over while they finished making ICC 2) Explain why they weren't doing an Anzol' Nerub raid (they originally planned on it, but it was taking too much time. People wanted to see ICC so they pushed it aside to work on ICC.)
Spine of Deathwing is the reason I don't farm the mounts from Dragon Soul.
Has everyone just forgotten about Ruby Sanctum? That's a thing that actually happened. The forgotten raid.
I was thinking that myself.
+CatalystGamingUK Honestly, for me, nothing tops SoO. Its the absolute shittiest raid ive ever done. Mostly because of all the trash and it being the only content we got for a time that felt like 2 years. Holy shit i hated MoP....
+Jumanji Have you seen Ruby Sanctum?
Anything is better than SoO, raided that shit for like an entire year. Rather do ToC
Heroic Blackfuse progression was my favorite WoW experience. We put in 200+ attempts in a month before we finally got him. It was wonderful.
I liked siegecrafter. It was extremely busy and one of the few fights that made me feel extremely panicked/under pressure. Most fights now are just execution and can be done cleanly. There isn't enough random in them or at least pseudo-random(like in this fight where there are a lot of mechanics that have to be dealt with impromptu and forced some lack of coordination, even from the best guilds.
Riley Tucker Another good example of this was, at least before your group had it DOWN, was Heroic Baleroc. I also think that, in some ways, Paragons was the worst fight in SoO, even though I didn't try to get in a good guild that was doing heroics then, solely because it had SoO many mechanics to memorize.
+kintai1000 The random comes more from where you had to drop the blades because later on in the fight shit just got hectic and you couldn't always drop your blade right where you're supposed to. I know there's almost no true random in raid bosses, but it forces pseudo-random by causing chaos and making it too hard to try to completely control things to make it viable to. I like fights where it forces you to fuck up and learn to deal with the fuck up as opposed to just almost no margin for error.
Thanks for explaining *why* to like, comment, & share. It definitely makes me feel more comfortable playing the algorithm game with you creators.
I loved / still love Heroic Blackfuse! D:
Asero yeah no I agree i really hate that boss man
As a mw monk, I absolutely loved malkorok. I had a bunch of mobility to deal with mechanics. As well as active mitigation to deal with the raid wide dmg he put out. Not to mention my renewing mist could travel the entire platform making uplift very powerful. aaaaaaaaand.... starting out with xuen + revival kept everyone at full shields for basically the next 45 seconds. I didn't just win every single mythic kill of this in my guild on the healing meters, I dominated them.
I don't actually know anyone who's ever complained about Netherspite or Rhyolith, or Cata Nef... And I never had the problems other people seemed to with Faction champs (not that I liked it).
Rhyolith people complained about until they figured out how to deal with him. Like my group, assign ONE person to steer him, everyone else IGNORE him until the person steering him gets him to run over all the volcanos. Problem is, people don't like 'sit and wait' mechanics. And yeah, if too many people tried to drive rhyolith, they could fuck the fight up.
Netherspite was annoying because it was in a 10 man. It's raid mechanic was more apt for a 25 even if the damage done was okay for a barely geared 10. Like, take the netherportals into BFA or something with the same exact mechanic and it would feel more balanced as you're dancing that debuff amongst more people and not such a small group.
In the PTR for Firelands, we (Supermassive) spent most of our time testing Rhyolith giving active feedback to Watcher who was there watching us do attempts (since we spent more time on that boss than anyone else, and it was... well... Rhyolith). The fight could've been so much worse than what eventually got released if it had been even a bit closer to what was originally released on the PTR. The mechanics didn't change much, but the rules for how and where volcanoes could spawn, and the math behind converting DPS on a leg into a turning direction was really, really bad without hours of testing.
Heroic Blackfuse is considered one of THE BEST bosses Blizzard has made.
Agreed. Insanely fun fight.
The idea of raiding and killing bosses, to me at least, is to overcome a nearly impossible obstacle. Heroic Blackfuse was hard as fuck, and I've never been more proud of a kill. I liked the fight. The movement, the shielding I could do for my teammates both as a shadow or disc priest, the adds and single target dmg. We had 300 tries on the boss, and so many were complaining, and sure, it's never fun to wipe 300 times on the same boss, but when I think back I must say that it was a well designed fight. The gimmicks are exactly what made the kill prestigious. No pain no gain
I think there should be more bosses like these. People are so fucking boring. They just want the same thing over and over again. Taunt when you get this and that many stacks, take two steps to the side to avoid something on the ground and blow heroism at x minute mark... yawn.
underrated comment
I quite literally loved every single one of these. Never hated or even disliked any of the bosses in WoW. Not entirely sure how someone can. They're a delight to fight against, something you only get to do with a large group of people once or twice a week (depending on how quick you go through everything) and are scarce.
The chess game fight... Kaz
He didn't put that on because cause it was on his other hardest boss list
Michael Fisher I loved that one lol
Trying to solo it is hard, when it was current content it was a cake walk and took like 2 minuites. It wasn't intended to be solo'd as are any raid bosses.
Dean Allen is correct, the chess event was extremely easy for a 10-man raid. It was so easy everyone considered the fight to be free loot and an opportunity to take a brief break from serious raiding. The only reason someone would think this is ‘worst’ is if they tried to solo it, which is admittedly a pain to do.
i loved kaz, all of it
I loved the 4 horsemen... the top guilds of the time actually worked together to find a way to kill these... it is the only time I know we did this.
My most hated raid was "Throne of the Four Winds"
No guilds fought and piached geared tanks they should have made it 4 tanks at the most
i liked Netherspite :D the Damage Ray was awesome^^ Dmg Meter goes through the roof. The other Dragon that spawns the Skeletons was dumb
To clarify something a bit, I hope you don't mind:
4HM explanation is wrong, you can easily do the fight with Furys in Tier 2 gear (which they will have at that point). Just have the normal 'MTs' and the best geared Fury tanking Mograine+Thane Korthazz. Also you are talking about the Tier 3 4set bonus, this does not mean that Taunt can't resist it's just down to 11% resist chance (from 16%).
Haven't watched yet, but I expect to see the following:
Madness of Deathwing - Wasted potential
Immerseus - Long and boring
Heart of Fear in general - Long and boring, no stand out fights.
Lord Rhyolith - Boring
Valithria Dreamwalker from a DPS standpoint - Boring
Gothik the Harvester - Long and boring
Flame Leviathan - Vehicle fight, nuff said.
Ultraxion - Very easy if people knew how to press a button, and the hardest boss in the game if they didn't.
Having watched, I have to say I didn't hate faction champions. Well, I will agree it's probably the most annoying fight in there, but I wasn't bored on it at least. I'd say the first fight in ToC is worse.
I actually liked Flame Leviathan. It was a good quick easy fight to get into the raiding mood every night we went to Ulduar.
And if you went for hard mode, it was actually really entertaining and it was a fun switch from my usual duties as a healer.
I hated the the dragon on the right right after it a hell of a lot though.
Kek Blackfuse HC was my favorite encounter in SoO, Spine of Deathwing is my most hated fight ever
I actually kind of liked blackfuse, it was a strange combination of hectic and reminded me of the one dance fight in Naxxramas with its 'world in flame' mechanic (that they used a fair bit in MoP tbh), especially on heroic. Probably just old raid nostalgia now.
I know you were joking about nobody liking Heroic Siegecrafter, but a lot of people actually like it. The belts were seriously a joke, if you had at least 1 hunter/warlock for 10 man and 2 for 25. The "dumb one shot mechanic" is a pattern of lasers that goes from right to left. I think a competent raider can handle differentiating between left and right.
The name of the song played in the background on Heroic Blackfuse, which you can start hearing at around 9:30 is "Dance of the Pixies". Was trying to find that out ages ago and just ran into it!
I actually thought faction champs was kind of cool lol
I know some of these are way after this video, but here is my list.
1. Paragons of the Klaxxi
2. Faction Champions
3. Helfire Assault
4. Madness of Deathwing
5. Siegecrafter Blackfuse
6. Viscidus
7. Spoils of Pandaria
8. The Blast Furnace
9. Flame Leviathan
10. Spine of Deathwing
ToC was one of my favorite raids ever
Also loved it for the crazy amount of trash packs, but anubs spike chasing and champs were so cool
I used to love blackfuse, it was the one fight where as an enhance shaman i could just treat it like a patchwerk fight.
Blackfuse was dope, 250 wipes? Yikes bad players.
Worst for me would have to be Thok. As a healer it wasn't fun at all and if any raid member missed one healing cooldown it could easily result in a wipe. It was a very rigid encounter with little room to improvise.
Typical Disc Priest, complaining about the 2 fights that make them not OP (Tortos/Malk), when they are the clear leader to most every other fight in existence.
+Treeman Grizz disc priest are funny, they seems to think that they are some super healers despite their healing is automatically done by dealing damage and the healing itself sucks anyway, holy is still better and far more entertaining.
Holy and Shadow are better
@Louise Hayle last time I did any raiding as disc nothing but a pally could touch the burst healing of disc. Granted I haven't played it since atonement was implemented as a major component, it was a cool offheal imo for low damage phases but I find the required use of it as a primary mechanic horrendous.
so here we are in classic TBC and we don't skip netherspite because our group has it down so well that we one shot. honestly if you can one shot it, it's a really fun fight mechanic wise when you think about it. tanks get to dance, dps get to swap, healers get to dance (if you do the green beam the way we do). it's super fun. intimidating because it's easy to mess up, but fun.
Blackfuse is the best Boss in WoW.
Flame Leviathan hard mode was amazing.
ok so what we have seen here is you hate anything that needs more then two brain cells the champions did not need healing reduction to do that fight it was such an easy fight only had 3 wipes on it
you just hate hard fun fights
Not gonna lie; Blackfuse was one of my favorite fights ever designed. The tuning was near perfect. Personal responsibility was extremely high. Also it wasn't boring! Although I was the belt guy so I feel your pain if your belt people are failing and you can't do anything about it.
Nice video =)
Loved Herioc Blackfuse... As long as my fellow belt guys were good. This fight truly separated the good players from the keyboard turners.
Interesting you mention Nef in BWD being bad because it required your raid to not spam dps and pay attention to boss hp, I personally LOVED that fight, even though my guild spent 4 nights straight wiping on him. I thought the hardest part wasn't the lava, but phase three when I had to kite the skeletons around and let them die without touching the fire. At one point during our encounters, it became solely up to me until I learned the perfect path till we finally got him down
Only Tortos deserves to be on this list. The rest of it reeks of "it annoyed me so it is terrible"
+Flan Murray
We generally agree about the subjective nature of this list although tank requirement for vanilla 4 horsemen was a mistake, and Viscidus (but optional so meh).
Who would you nominate for this list? I'd pick Hydross from Serpentshrine Cavern for basically the same reason as Viscidus. Yes, I played ele.
+Daniel Dahlborg Pretty much any fight requiring resist gear makes my list. I DESPISE resist gear.
My worst fights.... in no order
1) Sindragosa. The whole debuff preventing high dps was counterintuitive.
2) Everything Highmaul. It was uninspired and most of the mechanics were either overtuned or too numerous to really feel like a theme. Like they just had to throw shit in there just to throw shit in there. A lot of bosses abilities and fights didn't make thematic sense. Does that make sense?
3) Spine of deathwing:/ Madness. Spine I hated because the graphics made me feel disoriented to the point I had to look at a way to turn off the clouds in the background. Besides that, it started making me realize they were turning Deathwing away from being a dragon and more into just an abomination. Madness, you're fighting tentacles, no dragon... wtf. Also, it's ridiculously long.
4) Thaddius. If you were playing a class that didn't have a movement speed buff, jumping off that platform was super risky. Also, at the time I had a really shitty computer with some lag so if I mistimed my step even further, I'd end up in the acid. This fight actually forced me to get a good computer just for that jump. It still was bad, but not AS bad.
5)Halion: Despite the lack of relevancy Ruby dragonshrine had in Wotlk and now feels like such a throw away raid, Halion punishing you for having great members in one half and not so great in another felt like such jacked up shit. So, sometimes, in a 10 man you'd have to send 3 bottom and 7 top.... to balance out a group... what? Others would be 5/5. Either way, if you had to balance out 3 bottom and 7 top for instance it made it that much harder on the 3 BECAUSE THEY'RE BETTER THAN THE OTHER 7. IT should feel harder on the other 7, not the other way around.
6) I forget which one, but it was either the third or fourth of the Hyjal raid that I couldn't stand at the time, mainly due to a bug where some enemies would go to evade and reset the whole gauntlet, or similar, the boss would either evade and reset the whole gauntlet and sometimes the boss would preemptively spawn while the gauntlet is still going on. It was a mess before they fixed most of the bugs on that fight.
7) Manneroth: Hellfire citadel. This may be because of how balance druid's balance meter ran, but it was extremely annoying either mode to deal with the large amount of running, all the timing having to use celestial alignment to push arcane phase for AoE, etc. It got to the point I just used heart of the wild and went kitty thrash for AoE (the one at 30% before the push). It was just bad design, but probably more because of Moonkin bad design than the fight itself. However, the right still had way too much running around and I'm also not fond of fights where you have to fight near a ledge and allies can screw up and do something that pushes you off.
8)Saurfang/Nazgrim: I couldn't stand it from a lore perspective...
9) Sinestra: mainly cause of all the talking. The fight mechanically was fine, it's just omg would those two shut the fuck up already?!
10) Megaera: It was so looong and so Booooring.
Disagree with quite a few of these: Nefarion, Blackfuse, Madness of Deathwing, Flame Leviathan and Lord Rhyolith. To each their own, but thematically and engagement wise, I felt all of those were fun. Tortos is a pain as a caster, I'll fully admit to him pissing me off with the turtle shells and bat's silence. Not sure if your ending comment was to be cheeky/tongue-in-cheek, but w/e :p
If I had to list 10 "worst" bosses imo it be something more (in no particular order)
10.Vanilla Grand Widow (immensely annoying to heal on as a Druid)
9.Fankriss The Unyielding (reskinned boss with boring mechanics)
8.Malygos
7.Valithria Sreamwalker (a snooze fight and unremarkable)
6.M'uru
5.Shade of Akama (talk about a rushed boss fight fight)
4.Illidari Council (was immensely annoying trying to get people to execute properly and nothing special is in the encounter)
3.Lei Shi (talk about testing one's patience)
2.Gothik The Harvester ( this one also is a test of patience, back an forth, only killing mobs majority of the fight)
1.Viscidus (idiotic mechanics even when it was current content, making many casters useless).
+Nick Santillo (Nickywhat) I'm seriously surprised malygos wasn't on his list.
Only class that can legit solo vecidius, DK with both frost & physical dmg so yeah
It's funny you mention the vanilla mechanic in #1 I'm surprised people didn't love that, seeing as Vanilla is apparently so fucking amazing and perfect and everything xD
I see where you're goin w/this, but at the same time: Blizzard uses patches to "fix" patches, regardless if it's for xpac babies or pre-BC lol
One of the worst fights in my eyes was that amber-guy from heart of fear. We had a lot of people who had trouble with their interfaces in that fight - ok, that's a personal fault, not blizzard's problem. But in general, as a semi-progress group back then, we just knew, we would wipe, if certain people got into the vehicles, who most of the time were not that bad of a player.
Blackfuse was the boss that killed my old raidgroup, that had been there since classic (i joined later). It was the moment, the 2 key players decided: ok, that's it. We don't enjoy this anymore. And more and more people not show up to the raid, which had not happened before. For a very long time, we raided 10 man with 11 people and all 11 were ALWAYS there. If there was an emergancy, there usually was already a backup player organized, which was very rare. But on blackfuse we even had one tank flat out refusing to play in that fight - unthinkable before. Now I have seen this more often. Attitudes change. So there was something about this fight, that made people feel like it was a waste of their time to progress on it. I was playing rogue... i did NOT have fun in that fight.
But I have the same with Gorefiend now - i have to do the people outside and if i mess up once, until 2 month ago, that was a wipe. Now there was a tiny nerf and with better equip its easier to handle my fails.
right now I am wiping on mannoroth myth and i really dislike this fight, because it comes down to perfect timing and movement. But not... difficult movement, just coordination and has to be practiced like a dance... I do not mind difficult movement-bosses! But mannoroth feels... weirdly boring albeit currently being (at least for me) a difficult boss. I also feel that i cannot influence the outcome as much as it felt on other bosses. Luckily, the wipes are quite fast. But aside from Gorefiend (for personal reasons) this is the fight i dislike the most in progress i this addon.
9:25 "Backed up by statistical data"
*My friend group agreed
There fixed it for you.
ZovaZey It was probably a joke. Chill
Oh my goodness... I had almost completely forgotten about Faction Champs. Personally, that's my most hated fight in all of WoW, and that's because I didn't raid in Mists. Oooh.... oooh, I had JUST started tanking in Wrath as well, and I felt so helpless in that fight. :sigh: At least raids aren't like that now.
Twin emperors in aq 40.
Guild Killers
C'thun trash was the real last boss
After having done Classic 4 horsemen, i can say for sure that it is one of the better fights in classic....IF you are prepared for it. Getting 8 ZG fish-boss trinkets and forcing the DPS warriors to take on tanking duties isn't hard if everybody knows it is coming. If you don't know, then it is probably a lot worse. The execution of the fight itself is quite fun, and one of the most involved fights in all of vanilla. It's just a great time.
So i have noticed that most footage in your videos is on low settings and still runs at like 10 FPS even though that player is alone in the raid... is it recorded on a 10 year old notebook or what? ;)
I loved flame leviathan, the transition phase of Nefarion (though the other phases had an underwhelming hard mode, but you just stop slightly before the pillar and wait till the lava is almost at the top and hold space bar for the transition. Then you can make it in one attempt pretty guaranteed), and liked some elements of faction champions (didn't like so much how the fight actually slowed down and got easier the further through the fight you got, or the rng-ness of getting a bad set of classes to fight against for the week). Everything else I am on page with.
Wait tortos was bad? I actually enjoyed that fight alot.
And blackfuse was fun and a fight that required alot of skill.
M'uru. enough said. would rather do blackfuse any day than progress on that fight again.
I actually really love fights like Viscidus.
Actually needing to use flavorful abilities to tackle and defeat a boss is a far better rpg feeling than dodge the red carpet.
Viscidus is still a pain in the ass to do but I learned a neat little trick for you fellow frost mages out there. As a frost mage we have no issue getting Viscidus frozen, its shattering him with physical damage thats the issue. The solution is to walk outside the room and mount up on a vendor mount. Buy the 1-3 damage dagger and when you freeze him just bloodlust and shank the shit out of him.
I liked blackfuse on heroic, where's your god now?
I find this video funny because you included some of my personal best boss fights in wow. Like tortos, ryolith and madness. Even Leviathan was really enjoyable.