Calling Tiles - Riichi Mahjong Guide
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2017
- In this episode of Riichi Mahjong Guide, we discuss calling or claiming other players' discarded tiles. Doing so almost always reduces the value of your hand, but if done well, it can speed up the progression of your hand.
In general, it's better not to call. If you're not 100% sure that you should call a chi, pon, or kan, it's best to leave your hand closed.
Please feel free to leave any questions or feedback in the comments.
Gotta say I'm a little disappointed that that sequence of 3 kans in a row didnt end in rinshan kaihou lol
Just when i thought it was making sense you throw this in the mix thanks :p
This is one confusing game.
At the end of the last kan example (around 10:00) you didn't finish the example so for anyone confused:
After he has drawn the last tile, there are 14 tiles in his hand: the two winds that are upright, the pin sequence and the three kan that each count as three tiles. Unless the last tile you've drawn is your winning tile (here it would've been the west wind, completing the pair that you need to make a winning hand and earn that beautiful rinshan kaihō), you need to discard either of the two tiles in your hand to get back to 13 and the game goes on (until someone else wins or you call ron to complete your pair or tsumo by drawing the tile that completes your pair)
M
I've only played a computer version so forgive my ignorance, but sometimes I run into situations where I think I can Ron, but the game won't let me saying something like 1翔縛り (the first kanji there might be wrong, but it's something Shibari). What causes that?
@@yogurtroyale831 It seems you were playing with a modified rule called Ryanhan shibari (二飜縛り). This rule basically says that a hand needs at least two Hans (without counting Doras) to be considered a winning hand.
If you call Riichi and Riichi is your only Yaku (which gives 1 Han), unless the discarded tile is a tile which gives you more Hans (for example by doing Ippatsu or completing any other Yaku), you will be in Furiten.
There is a page on the Riichi wiki about Furiten, which has a paragraph on permanent Furiten while in Riichi and it talks about Ryanhan shibari.
@@SakanaKogane Thank you! That makes sense, that's very difficult haha
M
After your 3rd Kan I was expecting a rinshan kaihou
Thank you, what a great guide...Wanted to learn the basics before reading Akagi, but its surprisingly complicated. I find the foreign names of the game's elements to be particularly challenging.
Im watching a bunch of videos like this in preparation for the next arc in kaiji. This shit sounds impossible 😂
The warning about being careful about calling tiles while you're learning is generally good, but I don't think anyone can get through the basic learning curve without making a no yaku hand at least once, and to me at least, you have to make the mistake yourself to really learn the lesson.
I put myself in furiten a lot when learning
Thank You! Great job explaining this game! I found this series very helpful!
Cool, that was a pretty informative rundown. I think I can go back to watching Akagi now and actually follow what's happening lol
Another good one
Omg when I tried mahjong in ffxiv i though calling was the whole point of the game xD explains why I always lost
If someone needs a tile to win with a sequence vs someone who needs the tile for pon, does the player who needs the tile to win get the tile
Claiming another player's tile to complete a winning hand always takes precedence over other types of calls.
If more than one player wants to claim a discarded tile to complete a winning hand, what happens is up to the specific ruleset, and this is covered in the Optional Rules episode later in this series.
Great guide, trying to learn Japanese Mahjong via only Chinese guides was very getting confusing..
that happened to me too! so i began to search for "riichi" instead of just "mahjong"
Hello again! If you've called an honor tile to complete a yakuhaii, would turning it into a kan still count the yakuhai as a yaku?
Yes, it does. A kan is just an upgraded triplet, so a kan of yakuhai still counts as yakuhai.
As far as scoring goes, a kan differs from a triplet in two ways: it's worth more fu than a triplet, and it can be used for specific yaku, such as san kantsu. Other than that, a kan and a triplet are treated the same.
I see, thank you!
What if there are enough kans in the game that the dora indicator is the next one to be drawn? Do you just skip them? Great videos by the way, they've helped a ton!!
In most rulesets, after four kans are made, a fifth kan cannot be made. In some rulesets, the game ends in an abortive draw after a fourth kan. This is covered in a later video in the series, "Optional Rules".
What happen if a player calls a tile (Chi / Pon / Kan) and other player calls Ron? Did the Ron call has higher precedence or it is just first come first serve, so if Chi / Pon / Kan is faster the tile just goes to that player and the round continues?
Ron almost always has higher precedence. The only way it might be void is if the player who calls ron does so very obviously late, like a few seconds after another player already made another call.
hi, thanks a lot for your guide, i'm learning mahjong to play with my grandma ! I was wondering if you can make a shouminkan by calling a tile ? or can you only upgrade a pon to a kan by drawing a tile ?
You have to draw the fourth copy yourself to upgrade a pon to a kan. It might help to think of it this way: To make a kan of any type, you have to draw at least three of the same tile yourself (and of course all four for an ankan).
You showed how to play a concealed kong and claim a replacement tile from the dead wall using an honor tile example, thank you. But you have an advantage in keeping the kong secret if it is from one of the numbered suits, because another player might be waiting to complete a chow using the tile you have and will never do so since you have all four of them. Is there a way to play the kong to get a replacement tile from the dead wall without revealing what you have? Can the kong be played face down (revealing after the round is finished, of course)? Thank you.
That may be the case in other styles of mahjong, but in Japanese riichi mahjong, you must reveal all four tiles when making the kan. As you said, you could delay making a kan if you have all four of the same tile in your hand in order to keep this information from the other players. That is part of the strategy of choosing when (or if) to make a kan.
OK, thanks very much.
When is the good time to call tiles? All I can think of is:
Speed: When you're east and want to make sure you stay east.
Points: Maybe a good hand with a Yakuhai and/or you have 2 or more of the dora.
Easy Pon/Kan's: Maybe you have a good opportunity for a Toitoi or a dragons/winds/etc. Kind of goes hand in hand with the points one above.
Calling tiles is one of the more difficult aspects of the game. There aren't many easy rules I can give for this, but in general, you would call if it confirms your yaku (like yakuhai), if it doesn't considerably cheapen the hand, or if it would get you to a winnable tenpai. Calling with a slow hand usually isn't a good idea because even that slight increase in speed doesn't guarantee that you'll get to tenpai before the other players, and you could put yourself in danger by making it more difficult to defend later since you'll have less tiles.
In general, any yaku that calls for sequences is able to be open, just worth 1 less han if open. Learning those yaku will allow you to free up your hand (pun intended)
@@tynytian pinfu disagrees
@@Yotanido "in general"
The concept of calling tiles in Riichi Mahjong is much more complicated than the same concept in Chinese rules.
So, for closed kans:
1) Are you obliged to declare them at some point before winning for them to count as a meld? Can't I just chill with my four red dragons and not tell anyone?
2) Do they have to be called during your turn, before you draw? Because otherwise I can see someone only calling the kan to flip the dora for themselves.. Any advantage for waiting to call a kan?
1) If you want all four of those tiles to count as one set or meld, then you have to declare a kan with them before you can win. Otherwise you would not have enough space in your hand to complete the necessary four sets and pair for a winning hand.
2) The only time you can declare a kan is during your turn after you've drawn a tile and before you discard a tile. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "someone only calling the kan to flip the dora for themselves," but in general, it's better not to declare a kan if you aren't close to winning the hand yourself. After all, every player gets access to the new dora, so revealing new dora for everyone without being able to capitalize on it by winning your hand soon afterwards would not make much sense.
@@LightGrunty Keeping the closed Kan in your hand until you are in tenpai also gives you a chance at rinshan kaihou. While only worth 1 han, I do think it's pretty awesome when it happens.
Where did you get your mahjong set and table?
The mahjong set and mat that I use in these videos were imported from Japan. It's quite pricey, but I wanted a top-notch mahjong set.
If you're looking for a mahjong set, you should be able to find some good ones on Amazon. I know one of my friends got a nice Japanese-style set from Yellow Mountain Imports and a "Junk Mat" mahjong mat through Amazon.
Thanks for replying, I'll take a look on Yellow Mountain Imports' mahjong sets.
Unfortunately, if you want a really nice set, you probably have to import it from Japan. The mahjong set I used in these videos is a top-notch modern set from Japan, which my friend got for me. Apparently the one I use isn't sold anymore. It's really too bad, since it's such a high quality set and includes color tenbou.
If you are looking for a set from Japan, I would recommend AMOS brand mahjong sets. They have multiple different sets of varying price and quality, and their cheapest set is probably equivalent to the YMI riichi mahjong set. That's about all I can say for recommendations for now.
Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but in sanma games where you have 8 rinshan tiles for both kans and peis, do you still add tiles to the dead wall from the live wall after each and every rinshan?
Yes, the dead wall always has to be 14 tiles. Normally you wouldn't even break the dead wall at the start of the hand, especially in the case of sanma where it's very likely that rinshan tiles will be drawn.
@@LightGrunty So in a sanma game the deadwall would always be kept at 18 tiles then?
@@larsu-gx579 No, the dead wall is always 14 tiles, even in sanma.
@@LightGrunty but according to what I've read on the arcturus wiki a sanma dead wall should have 8 rinshan tiles and 10 dora. The extra 4 rinshans are neccesarry for the peis correct? If I played sanma with a 14 tile deadwall, what would we do if all 4 north tiles got declared as peis, and then somebody declared a kan? They wouldn't have a tile left to rinshan draw.
For sanma, rather than having the dora indicator as the third tile over, leaving 4 rinshan tiles, it is the fifth tile over, leaving 8 rinshan tiles. The total size of the dead wall is still 14 tiles, though.
i think someone thought "let's make the most complicated game on the world" and then we have mahjong.
so... we have 4 players... basically we can make 16 kans. Does that mean i'm not allowed to kan after... 6 made kans?
or wait what happends if you made >4 kans? because following your moves this means the kan draws are not there anymore and the dead wall starts with the dora indicator.
does that mean there are only 4 kans possible in the whole game? i know its unlikely but why the hell should a game prevent those 16 kans? do we run out of tiles otherwise or what.
This is covered in a later video about optional rules, but the maximum total number of kan declarations that can be made in a hand is 4. No one can declare a 5th kan.
@@LightGrunty wow, thank you so much :o this was a really quick answer! the rule's weird but why not.
i'm currently trying to implement a 3D mahjong game so this was very helpful :)
Ive watched all the videos and i still cant understand how to play it lol
What if there is a 5th kan in a round? Do you draw the dora?
Good question. In most rulesets, a fifth kan can not be declared. I've never seen a ruleset where a fifth kan is allowed, but if one exists, I would imagine that it also explains what to do in such a situation.
If one person declared all the first four kan, then in certain rulesets a fifth kan can be declared, after which: the dora indicator is not flipped, and if the rinshan tile isn't tsumo, and nobody wins off the concurrent discard, the hand is aborted immediately.
Real question, where did the extra tiles come from where the dead wall is, usually it's 14 tiles but I don't know where they extra 6 tiles came from at all
They're just part of the live wall. The dead wall itself is always 14 tiles, and it is replenished with tiles from the back of the live wall if necessary.
@@LightGrunty I was wondering why the dead wall and the live wall are combined here, from what I saw in the setup video the dead wall looks completely separate from the live walls
@@RedstoneRomel In casual play or on online platforms, the dead wall will often be separated from the live wall to make it easier for players to see. But in serious competition play, the wall is not broken to separate the dead wall. Though if the dice roll to break the wall at the start of the hand is 7, then the dead wall will be conveniently separated from the live wall.
@@LightGrunty oooh so you don't separate 7 tiles but rather it's dependant on the dice roll. Sorry that's where the confusion came in because I always thought you separated 7 for the dead wall
Edit:
Just to see if I understand, if I for example rolled a 10, then 20 tiles will be the breakoff point that has both 14 tiles for the dead wall and the remaining for the live wall. A follow up question (sorry for asking too many questions) would be what happened if you rolled a 6 or below, do you distribute tiles from the lesser half so that there will always be 14 tiles for the dead wall?
Why would I upgrade a triplet into a quad
This is a bit of a complicated question, but the gist of it is that doing so has the potential to increase your hand's point value. However, the downside is that it may increase the point values of other players' hands. In general, it's better not to upgrade a triplet to a quad unless you have a good reason to do so and are also close to winning your hand.
@@LightGrunty thanks
Goes in one ear and out the other.
reminds me of Saki's gamestyle lmao
Should be added that grabbing tiles like that after calling is considered rude.
Usually the player you called from passes the tile to you.
That may be the case in other forms of mahjong, but in Japanese mahjong, you are expected to pick up the tile yourself.