I respect the sentiment, but I'm honestly having a really hard time coming to terms with people not understanding why lore breaking is upsetting. there's a fine line between "let people enjoy things" and then also sitting back and watching as my favorite author of all time is not being honored. At times like these though, I really appreciate your content, thank you for the respect and admiration that you clearly show towards Tolkien's lore, even the more obscure parts. I hope that channels like your can inspire a new generation of Tolkien fans who have not had the opportunity yet to read the extended works such as The Silmarillion and The Unfinished Tales.
Even if Amazon didn’t completely poop on the lore, it’s just not a good show. The writing was awful, most of the acting was poor, the pacing was bad, the characters did so many things that made no sense. If you like it then enjoy, but I can’t agree with you.
I'm so glad you guys aren't trying to soften your opinions for the sake of optimism like so many of the other Tolkien channels are. It's not about being negative for the sake of being negative but I can trust your opinions and they seem completely genuine :)
“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.” - Lindsey Weber, E.P. Amazon's LOTR Series, Vanity Fair (Feb. 2022) "There are certainly themes Tolkien felt were important. We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies. What we were trying to do was to analyse what was important to Tolkien and to try to honour that. In a way, were trying to make these films for him, not for ourselves." - Peter Jackson, Interview with GreenCine (Dec. 2002)
Almost all the channels I’ve seen are negative. I like the show but can understand everyone’s dissatisfaction. We will have to see. The show needs to get moving sooner than later, though
Well, lets hope it was for the sake of optimism, but in reality looks more like "contractual obligation to amazon" for getting to attend the premier events
The things is game never clamed it was canon or that it was better than the original by the developers like actors and other people from ROP production
The other channel Nerd of the Rings mentioned this but the show probably be better if Elrond was the protagonist as the series could follow his life events like how his parents were killed and how his brother chose being a mortal and Elrond choosing the path of immortality. Having the story centre around Elrond's personal life events whilst simultaneously matching with major events of the Second Age sounds much more interesting to me than following a made up hero's journey of Galadriel.
I can't be the only one who felt Finrod vowed to hunt Sauron to be kinda out of character, I mean when would he even have the time to actually hunt Sauron or at least thought he would have the time and why hunt him, he's out in the open during the first age not hiding anywhere, Finrod wouldn't hunt him unless he has a personal vendetta against him which is very out of character for Finrod so that doesn't make sense, and if you say that he's hunting him to protect the Noldor, then why hunt sauron there were way bigger fish out there in Beleriand than Sauron, even if you do hunt him down during this time he's a servant of Morgoth and killing him won't stop the armies of Morgoth sure he loses his chief servant but the legions of Morgoth still advance so on a practicality scale, a personal scale Finrod hunting him doesn't make sense unless he has a personal vendetta against him, idk it just feels off and kinda in my opinion butchers the character I feel like it takes the weight away from his heroic sacrifice to save Beren yes I know they don't have the rights but... they clearly know the lore... they could've said he sacrificed himself heroically and that Sauron was responsible for his death which he was, without mentioning the quest of Beren and Luthien, like at least show some respect for the character...
He didn't hunt him down, he ran into him while helping out Beren. Then he lost a rap battle against him, got captured, then got killed by a werewolf in a jail cell.
if you look they even have claw marks and bite marks on his body from wrestling with a werewolf so they are acknowledging they know the real story but still make up garbage
Giving Finrod a undercut is really stupid and it really bothers me lol. Isn't Finarfin's house known for their long golden hair? And the same goes for all the male elves with short hair. Gil-Galad is the only one that looks great.
I liked your points on their treatment of characters like Elrond and Galadriel. My problem is that they are treating them like stock characters rather than as characters with an established history and character. It’s so obvious that they just went “we need an angry young female and a politically smart/ambitious underdog male, let’s just insert them into these character people already know from the movies, no biggie”. And to make it even worse, they are ignoring the canon to tell the blandest fucking story comprised of the most boring cliches and tropes. Galadriel being bullied as a child, the Professor fucking wept…
Yeah, I can't deal with these tropes. Ugh. Galadriel is a mix between an anime protagonist and 1980s action movie hero bent on revenge. I think Steven Seagal would have been a better choice to play her.
I'd have to disagree, they're being treated as characters with their lore still established. It's just tweaked a bit, and it works for the film universe just not the books.
@@eliteteamkiller319 The film universe and its lore doesn't suck. Jackson and WB did a great job with the games and movies trying to bring what they're allowed to the screen.
@@Mulcam29 I'm sorry, when you said "film universe" I incorrectly assumed you were some Rings of Powerlessness fangirl who didn't understand that Rings of Powerlessness is not THE films of Tolkien (Jackson's are). I was not fully conscious when I responded, so most of that is probably not coherent or logical.
When I saw the two towers in theaters, I hadn't read the books or even watched the first one. In fact, I had never even heard of LOTR before the fellowship movie came out. I thought I would hate the two towers, but despite understanding almost nothing, I was on the edge of my seat the entire time and it became my favorite movie of all time. I felt absolutely nothing watching this first episode. It felt so...forgettable.
Thats how i got into tolkens books i watched the first one and i was so into it and excited that i read everything i could get my hands on and then later i found this page but this show is so soooo disappointing
Bro that campaign would fall apart so fast lol. Sam is the pala trying to keep everyone in order, Frodo is the rogue-fighter multiclass who is kinda disappointed with his build, and Merry is a rogue-bard multiclass who is just memeing with the DM (Pippin) the whole time hahaha
I disagree, in my opinion anyone who likes this can't call themselves a fan of Tolkien's work. If this show was just it's own standalone generic fantasy show it would be bad enough, but the fact that they're wearing Lord of the Rings as a skinsuit just makes it unforgivable.
See, that whole thing about Elrond and Galadriel not being the real characters, that's a deal-breaker to me. Knowing that they're not going to be telling us the story of these characters, or characterize them faithfully, would just irritate the heck out of me seeing any of them on screen. That in and of itself would drop the show to a 3/10 for me. The marketing already had me thinking it's a 2. I think the 5.5 you gave it is very generous; to me, a show that irritates or bores should be lower than average. I already have reason not to do business with Amazon. But I had already decided beforehand that I wouldn't watch the show unless I got at least three positive reviews from people I trust. So far, I haven't found one of those yet. But you are one of the reviewers I trust, and the lukewarm/irritated response you gave has convinced me I made the right decision.
Welcome back. Lol. "Hollowed out the husks of the characters". Exactly! Man it hurts. They could have done any original story of a massive world. Set up a special moment or moments that touch the lore. Or behind something from behind the story of Numinor with good people from Harad, or an Easterling resistance....or something assisted by elite elves... But this???!! It's undeserving of being called "fan" fiction.... Because whomever shat this out isn't a Tolkien "fan". It's garbage. Even for a fantasy fiction.... without the names and locations.... It still sucks. It hurts to lost such hope.
What killed me is when Elrond is writing that speech and how the other elf told him that Galadriel arrived. "Your friend is here." Your friend!? lol no shot Galadriel gets announced like that
and so Elrond only has a single friend? But most hilariously he responded with "Why didn't you tell me right away?". the messanger brought it up right after the message from the council, 30 seconds later... thats just an example of the awful writing/dialogues
And also Elrond is doing a speech for the High King of the Noldor?? He should be so inspiring as an elven king no one should have to tell him what to say
@@mikaeusbznd744 Yeah, but obviously in their minds the High King of the Noldor is an obtuse, stupid man. I gave to trying to understand the plot with the elves, right there and then.
It had entertaining moments, unfortunately there were too many dead areas and randomness. I had a huge problem accepting the hair of the majority of the male elves. It looked like they belonged in Twilight. Galadriel... they did her wrong.
They made the elves look like the Romans. I couldn't help feeling that at any moment they would start referring to each other, like Claudius, Marcus, Augustus, etc. would start talking about the Senate and the Emperor, while watching the gladiator fights in the Colosseum.
@@masa461 who in the blue hell knows why they decided to change a known formulae. If it ain't broke don't fix it, yet these imbeciles made a conscious choice to make them look that way
Here's my honest opinion after watching the two opening episodes and looking at it from someone who read every Tolkien book released multiple time, yes I'm one of those fans... I now realise that someone like me (sadly) can never truly enjoy this show looking at it through the lens of a Tolkien fan, I watched it with my wife who has almost no knowledge of Tolkien's books, she enjoyed it, and I understand why she did, it's a well made show with stunning visuals and all the stuff you need to make it an enjoyable fantasy type show. The moments I did enjoy were mostly visual, all the thing us Tolkien geeks wanted to see brought to life on the screen, I was Soooo excited when this show was announced, visually I don't have that many complaints, I can look past beardless dwarven women , and the colour of elves, It's not a deal breaker for me personally, what is are the massive changes to the characters and story. Imho even without the rights to The Silmarillion and other books covering this time they could have done a massively better job, so on this side of things for me it's a huge fail, and I'm just left so frustrated :(
This is a very good way to describe where I am as well. I legitimately couldn’t care less about the addition of people of color as elves, dwarves and Harfoots. I actually enjoy that. I also don’t mind the idea that they gave Galadriel a sword, but the way they’re treating her character, and how they’re throwing out her and Elrond’s entire backstories. Like they said in this video: Galadriel is a damn princess, consider one of the wisest and most powerful of all elves, and this is what they’ve done with her? They did her dirty and I’m really struggling. Also, the hair on the male elves. I just can’t. It looks like a bad DnD movie.
Maybe it could be a fine average fantasy series. But this is not Tolkien. Writing is so below standard. They clearly tried to write in his style, but lacked the skill of the craft, which should have been priority one. Casting, Sets, Effects, Costumes, Props, Music, etc. All vain trapping that mean nothing if the writing is not up to par. Plus the sadly typical fan attacks in the media lead up to the premiere are an immediate turn Off. Modern film and TV are too full of hubris to accept criticism and just dismiss it all with wildly unfounded name-calling slander. I would rather just rewatch the Extended Editions again. Time better spent. At best for me, a 2.5 OUT OF 10.
I'm not anywhere near as versed in the lore as you are, but having listened through the Silmarillion twice I was finding myself very confused about Galadriel, Elrond, and the other elves as well. It's like they didn't actually read the book at all. I found myself skipping through the first episode because it couldn't keep me at all. The scenery of Valinor and the trees was really cool, but that's about the extent of it for me as far as positives for the episode goes. The utter obsession with Sauron is just too out of place for me.
From what I've heard about interviews with the cast, crew and writers, they haven't read the Silmarillion or at least not most of it and seemed disturbingly proud of that fact. They reportedly did hire a Tolkien expert but fired him not long after. Respecting the lore sounded pretty far down on their list of priorities.
@@manji1993 Adult Elves. Elf-children seem to have been well-behaved, you can read it here: ""The Eldar wedded for the most part in their youth and soon after their fiftieth year. They had few children, but these were very dear to them. Their families, or houses, were held together by love and a deep feeling for kinship in mind and body; and the children needed little governing or teaching." Morgoth's Ring, Laws and Customs of the Eldar
A sure sign of amateurish writing is the inability to create a strong female character without first making her a victim. If you want a strong, respected character show her being treated with respect by the other characters, especially the males. Not rocket science.
It's like you said in that theory video about Galadriel taking the One Ring. She's almost the same, but not quite after she takes it. She changes. There's something off, something different, something unnatural, not quite right.
Just wait until the rings are forged. Then she'll take one and become the rightful ruler of Middle-earth we all know she should be. The second season will be her leading the assault on the Patriarchy of Valinor, and showing them who should be the true ruler of all creation!
I appreciate your honest opinion of this show. I’m not saying that the other Tolkien lore channels aren’t being honest, I just find it hard to believe that they were that cool with most everything that the show does. I love Broken Sword and Nerd of the Rings, but I don’t feel like they’re being completely honest with their viewers. I also know that they all went to London and got various pieces of swag. I also know that you Tolkien lore UA-camrs are all pretty cool with one another….. I hope this doesn’t cause a great divide in the same way that Star Wars has.
I completely agree. I love both channels, but it definitely felt very much like there was no understanding of why people would choose not to watch the show, and if you chose not to, you didn’t belong in the Tolkien community.
@@amandag5072 I don’t think I will, because I do enjoy their non “Rings of Power” content. I can separate the two, but I definitely don’t fault anyone that does. I just remember when the Last Jedi came out and it split the fandom in two. To this day, it’s still in an awful place for pretty much the same reason the LoTR is in right now. Studios and actors attacking fans, fans attacking actors for playing parts, UA-camrs attacking other UA-camrs, UA-camrs attacking their own fans. It’s been a vicious cycle that doesn’t seem to have an end. I guess, unsubbing is probably the most sensible and polite thing to do if that channel breaks your trust, morals or values. I won’t unsub over a difference of opinion, but if they start attacking fans that don’t agree with them, I most certainly will
They aren't being honest frankly, or their standards are waaay too low. Men of the West will likely be too nice and diplomatic to say that, so I will say it. "Fandoms" also don't need to be some unified borg. It's not an official club that can revoke membership for disagreeing, and it's not a big deal if some want to argue about what they like or don't like. That can make for interesting discussion.
It's a shame that no one can just express an opinion anymore, without first announcing a list of disclaimers, to forestall the inevitable backlash of indignation and offense. Opinions vary, and often differ; to the younger generations, who I've noticed especially having difficulty with this, learn forbearance, and go into a discussion preparing to be heard, but not necessarily to always be "right" or to "win."
That was beautifully said and so true! This younger generation has unfortunately come up wit the conclusion that if you are of a different mind then you hate the world but if you conform to the populous then you love it. It is true ignorance at its finest.
the diaclaimers end up doing nothing only wasting everyone's time, Ragers gona rage, just wear your heart on your sleeve and stop pandering to pyschopaths with multiple disclaimers, so lame.
There are 3 channels I watch for all things Lord of the Rings, 2 of them completely sold their souls for access and it's sad. Thank you for saying what 80% of the fandom is thinking! Edit: Men of the West is not only my favorite LOTR channel, it was the first one I started watching!
Same for me: I've unsubscribed them: the "ring unboxing" was the final straw for me with one youtuber. I'd like them to compare this series to their own "lore" videos, but they won't dare. It's all, "Look at the pretty pictures".
I had eye rolled more times to count unfortunately. I was really not a fan of either episode. I know their hands are tied with the lore a bit, but I didn't like the lore inconsistencies. I also was not a fan of some of the sets and the dialogue. I felt both episodes were quite boring and a lot of it just was unconvincing.
@Agent of Hydra he’s saying the lore they do have the rights to, they can’t even get that right! This show is a serious bore and none of the characters are captivating.
apparently they do have rights to do the 2nd age but dont have the book the simillarion. but regardless they just did bad job and a lot of it seems forced. i honestly care more about the original characters then galadriel and others because the original characters seem more genuine. which makes me really sad to say. really this is 98 percent a fan fic show.
Gil-galad, High King of the Noldor, and one of the wisest Elves ever needed a speech writer to address his own people…... With the bloated budget Amazon has you’re telling me they couldn’t hire a more competent writing team? What a joke.
I haven't read the books in years and so I'm rusty on the whole lore, but the elves felt so much like humans in their interactions and imo didn't really look elvish either.
Yeah that was the most stark mistake for me! They are just Men who have been alive for ages. They just use olden times speech. There's no sense of a higher power in them. The scene in ep2 with Celebrimbor in his office place, the way he moved and talked was just so... normal...
My god, finally an honest review. Tolkien channels are wholesome by default, so it's really hard to find someone even trying tos llightly criticise this show without saying they're sorry for doing so or outright making excuses for it. You can criticise this show for what it is without being "negative" or toxic, it doesn't make the content any less wholesome or true to Tolkien. I think more ppl in the community need to hear this.
At multiple points I found myself thinking "this is just stupid, what an idiotic choice". Practically everything to do with Galadriel is nonsensical fan fiction.
I think CGI ages well when it's: 1. Far away 2. It's in darkness to a degree, whether this be at night (The Lost World 1997), or a murky color grade with crunched blacks (Think the Nazgul attacking Osgiliath, still looks great). 3. It's composited into mostly real environments/ models. At least those are my thought on it.
Honestly I'd much rather & will continue to watch your Lore videos any day of the week than Amazon's junk. After reading the books, well it's just too far removed.
This was the best review I have come across so far. You guys are both fair and honest. Very thorough explanations of your opinions. I agreed with 100% of it.
I’m just glad you aren’t doing what Nerd of the Rings did and prop this horrible show above The Hobbit Trilogy. I understand changes have to be made for an adaptation, but they have more than enough source material to make a chow true to Tolkien’s world. You said it perfectly when you said this was low-grade fan fiction.
Galadriel was "banned" from returning to the Valinor because of her rebellious past. Until the end of the third age (having passed the test of refusing the Ring).
What I'm noticing with this show as well as others that are based on estabilished stories (like Star Wars) is that the makers want to just ride the stories and make money without doing any actual work. They seem to have a poor opinion of the fans and expect them to just swallow whateven they put on screen. If they want to tell their own story, they should create their own story and characters. But that would mean having to put in more effort.
Thank you for an honest review. It’s hard for me to listen to all of the positive reviews on the show feels as if they were almost paid for it. So thank you for staying true to Tolkien!
let's just be clear what that was, propaganda, not cinema. once you see it for what it is all its failings and the reasons become self evident. there's nothing much else to say about it. and screw being respectful just to avoid riling up the mob. you're not allowed to dislike the propaganda publicly anymore unless apologizing after every word. that's where we're at. that's why film is dead. the democratization of art and the dilution of vision lead to uniformity of production. that's a degradation in itself.
Spot on my dude. Art has completely been turned onto propaganda. The thing people don't get is that they don't even TRY to make it good...because that isn't the point! It's simply a clunky vehicle to drive home their ideology. A LOTR skinsuit bulging at the seams with a bloated, gangly, lurching monstrosity
I was surprised that it is rather like a soap opera. Galadriel is elevated over the other characters but she is not likable. The harfoots are Ewoks with Irish accents, there was a decided Mad Max Thunderdome vibe to Moria where the accents are Scottish except for Disa. And boy oh boy is Durin a sensitive dwarf. Who is the bearded face on the armor of the elves guarding the south - Oliver Reed from Castaway? The guy from the meteor (Gandalf) looks and acts like Nick Norte in Down and out in Beverly Hills. Having said that it could have been worse like the 2nd Hobbit movie for instance which eternally fills me with rage. 6 sounds about right. Thanks for a fair and honest review!
I sadly didn't feel the middle earth vibe I felt even with the Hobbit movies. I had also really hoped dwarf women would have some chin hair 😁. There are a fair share of other disappointments , but I needn't list them as they are well represented by this discussion.
I only watched the first episode and decided not to watch the rest of the show. All the characters seemed to me completely different from what they were in the books and LOTR, different and unnatural. But that's just my opinion.
The most I can give this show is that I will watch it with my brain completely switched off. Honestly, that's more than I can say about the star wars sequels. So I guess there's that...
I can imagine a faithful set of series, or probably a mix of films and series which would adapt and flesh out Arda and all the wonderful stories in Tolkien's works. It could have been great.
The Embracer Group just acquired the rights to everything Lord of the Rings. While primarily a video game publisher they have expressed interest in maybe doing new movies. Hopefully they see the backlash to Amazon's abomination and choose to stay true to what Tolkien envisioned.
now that Christopher Tolkien is gone, I have no hope that the legacy will ever be respected again in my lifetime...that being said i can also imagine a world in which a Children of Hurin or Beren and Luthien show could have been wonderful.
Think it would be hard to make anything truly faithful because Tolkien left too many openings in the first and second age. Mostly myth-like, not stand-alone dramatic stories. Think Beren and Luthien could work. But not much else without a lot of creative additions. Even the creation of the rings of power doesn’t make much sense without knowing what would compel celebrimbor to do something so stupid in the first place. The events need creative glue to make them stick, actual dialogue and side characters, etc. if accuracy is what we are after, our only hope is for the Hobbit to be remade.
I’m glad this video went the way it did. I’ve watched your videos for years and they’ve really enriched my love for Tolkien’s work. You passed the test, much as Galadriel did in denying the ONE RING offered by Frodo. Would have been easy for you to fold and accept the inherently evil “RINGS OF POWER” FROM AMAZON. Thankfully, you will remain the “MEN OF THE WEST”.
I got chills when Galadriel is asked ‘what is best in life?’, and he replies ‘crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.’
Bullying has become a shortcut in storytelling. When writers want to quickly tell (not show) who the protagonist is and who we should connect with and empathize with, they have minor characters bully that character. It's lazy writing.
What makes it worse is these articles saying all the people who are upset and don’t like the show, it’s because racism, woke bullshit and so on, when in reality it’s because they fundamentally changed the story that influenced every work of fantasy ever written. That’s what I find reprehensible.
RoP is soulless and disrespectful yeah.. The corporate media usually pulls lies like that when you see them attacking fans about something, it's just a smokescreen defensive tactic. They have done it before, for example they behaved similarly in defense of Disney Star Wars. They are getting mad at people for having standards and not just blindly consuming the product.
@@Daudlegur his undercut was ridiculous. Decent acting on his part. Wish they would have gotten the look of the elves correct. Especially the Calaquendi.
I wish Morgoth would have had at least two minutes being in this show visually rather than just being mentioned in a dialogue. He was the strongest villain in the lore who Sauron mimicked
@@meduseldtales3383 Morgoth is mentioned. Utumno is not. Udun is mentioned as a "region of Mordor", and as "hell" (flame of Udun) per one index I have at hand, and as "flame of [hell], i.e. dwelling of Morgoth beneath Thangorodrim" per another.
I can relate to Yoystan's passionate indignation at how much effort these showrunners must have gone to to hollow out the lore, just to tell an inferior story. It's not even about "Tolkienian purism". If they had used the lore to craft a superior story (and some good acting wouldn't have gone amiss), then it might have been nerd-boy rage, but they didn't, and I'd like to see them try to salvage anything from the dumpster fire they've created.
Elrond : go to blessed relm..only there your wound can be healed... I was like..dude she was born there....you have never been to valanor.....what are you talking about....
This show just sucks. They are doing game of thrones, and they have slapped on the LOTR name for suckers who think it’s actual Tolkien. Evil cannot create, it can only corrupt.
RoP is disjointed, has sophomoric writing, wooden acting, and worst of all (by a mile) is the utter disrespect to Professor Tolkien and his wondrous accomplishments. Amazon can't win me over with all the pretty lights. I'm not a monkey.
First they killed Star Wars, my first beloved fandom. Then, they killed Halo, my beloved childhood. Now, they strike at Tolkien, the most sacred of fiction. I am sick of this.
@@MenoftheWest I still have the memories of the good moments. They can't take those. I'll carry on remembering and sharing these great stories as they were, and should be, and not allow these perversions to taint them any further.
I feel you, I don't think some people are capable of empathizing with the feeling of heartbreak that some of us fans feel when the things we grew up loving are spat upon, mocked, utterly changed and disrespected.
I have for a few years now watched your channel for the nothing short of the love of Middle Earth. However I have to stop now. While I appreciate that everyone has an opinion, when it comes to media and content these days it feels as if too much negativity has crept in. My choice is to view this as its own adaptation. There are plenty of divergences from the books, however I would rather give this show and all those involved an opportunity to let the story play out and judge it as a whole for what it brings not what it lacks. We all have our own fan fictions we play in our head, let’s see how this plays out on scene. I will continue to drop in now and then to hear opinions and view content but not with frequency. I truly appreciate your love for Tolkien and wish you the best with your channel.
I think it's because they read that Elrond was the herald of Gil-galad and assumed that 'herald' was just a hanger-on and apparently speechwriter without actually looking into what they actually were in the lore.
Thank you for your honesty/integrity! You are one of three creators whose opinions I trusted to be fair. Now that I’ve seen/read reviews from all three, I think I’m going to skip the show and just watch the reviews to see if it turns around.
There are many holes in the writing. I will use one as an example. How can a mother go to another town and just leave her son alone if she thinks there is something weird going on?: I guess these writers don't know what it is to have children. It may seem like something small, but it just show the lack of care for the construction of believable characters and world.
Honestly I had some pretty low expectations from the trailers, but I really tried to be charitable and give it the benefit of the doubt, but my initial suspicions proved to be correct. I'm not a fan. As others have said it didn't feel like Tolkien. Which makes sense considering they largely made this up.
I think it just felt all over the place. My husband, who has not read any of the Tolkien books, felt rather bored. Many stories that lead nowhere. He wholeheartedly disagreed with Meteor Man. We did not like the Elves at all. The hair looks like a hairspray ad from the 80ies, and they simply looked very human, with stuck-on ears. Overall, the male Elves looked...old. Which is just not right. Only exception, strange as it may sound, was Arondir. He somehow demonstrated that etherial air required for an Elf. Elrond felt like a cunning merchant, I felt pain watching him. The dwarves were fine, Disa was just too much. A bit more subdued, she would have been fine.
Van Halen would always require m&ms with all brown one removed. If they didn’t do this they would throw a fit and refuse to play the show. They did this because they’d know the promoter did not read the contract if they didn’t fulfill this small request. It’s not nitpicking when you focus on small details because you know the show runners have not read the lore. How can we expect them to get big things right if they don’t get little things right?
I went into the two episodes with as open of a mind as I could, and surprisingly the things that I thought would annoy me the most didn’t. I actually really enjoyed the dynamic between Durin and Disa and I’m looking forward to seeing more of it. The three things that lost me completely; elves with short hair. I just can’t get past it. They don’t come off as elves and don’t seem different to me than just an average human. The second is Galadriel. They are make it her to be a vengeful teenager, and is the exact opposite of how she is in the books. As soon as Galadriel called Elrond a politician, I almost turned the tv off. It’s just too much. I do actually hope that meteor man is a blue wizard, I think that would he pretty cool to play out. But yeah, this show should have just been an original show given that other than the names they are using, there’s zero connection to Tolkien. And if they really have Galadriel have some type of romantic connection with Halbrandt (Sauron), then I’m going to lose my fucking mind.
As someone who has read a lot of Tolkien, you're my #1 UA-cam Tolkien expert. Thank you for providing your perspective on this, I had a feeling this was going to be really bad and honestly don't want to give it my time. I don't see it as Tolkien, I loved fan fic Tolkien as a way to describe this. Keep up the great work!!
I totally agree that this felt to me like fanfiction, and really average fanfiction. I went into watching it with some hope, although I really was wondering about Galadriel as a warrior. Even with just using the appendices, it is totally not who she is. But her characterization and of Elves in general -- as you said , the bratty elven children -- did not feel accurate at all. Galadriel as a commander was - as I have had heard others say - the worst combination of a Mary Sue and a Karen. She's the only one who could kill the snow troll? Elrond and Gil-galad, wisest of the wise, come off as conniving politicians. And they can force Galadriel to go into the West and her best idea is to jump into the Sundering Sea to swim all the way back?? The pacing and the dialogue was uneven, trite, and formulaic. The scenery was nice in many places, but compared to PJ's use of the landscape of New Zealand, it was just okay. I liked Durin and his wife, and Khazad-dum was fairly well-done, but so much of the other CGI was just pedestrian. I did not have that sense of place that Peter Jackson and Howard Shore conjured. So far, for nearly $500 billion, this is a disappointing bust for me.
You are now 1 of 2 LOTR content creators that I'm still subscribed to after all this. Those who take the money aren't worth my time, I'm here to nerd out with people who legitimately care about the lore.
Come on guys, be honest. It’s a 2/10. Visually mostly good, the audio was decent, a few of the actors were good. The story is trash, the dialogue was completely awful, Galadriel was not Galadriel, Gil-Galad and Elrond were tools, the Harfoots were pointless. Show your mettle.
Changing the Tolkein masterpiece and adding your own insane made up characters is blasphemous to everything Tolkein. This man spent his entire life creating this masterpiece and these people are so quick to change whatever they choose without any guidance involved. These people aren't even fans of Lord of the Rings they hate the movies just like Disney hated Star Wars so they go out of their way to destroy it and it's truly heartbreaking how disrespectful these people are today.
Get a hold of yourself. My all-time favourite movie is LOTR but even PJ Didn't fully adhere to Tolkein. And for your information, Tolkien's son hated the trilogy.
I was willing to overlook so many flaws in this series. However, the first two episodes simply don't feel dramatic. They feel melodramatic. I never felt any impending doom or underlying urgency from the story. It almost felt a bit rushed...and, oddly, boring. It just didn't feel like Middle Earth or an urgent story that needs to be told. Despite spending more than a BILLION DOLLARS, it felt inferior in quality, storytelling and acting than THE HOBBIT films. Moreover, the inclusion of "diversity" (simply for the sake of "diversity") feels somewhat forced to the point of pandering. In Middle Earth, we went from it being mythology for northern Europe to, well, black elves, black hobbits (err, harfoots), black men and black dwarves. However, it almost feels like they cast some characters BECAUSE they were black and not because they were great actors. In addition, it seemed like they threw some shots in for this reason too. It doesn't quite feel like LOTR or Middle Earth. It doesn't even feel like Skyrim or Westeros. In truth, this show kind of feels like a CW or Starz show with a $1 Billion budget (but, oddly enough, needed better actors). Or, maybe, it feels like a stage production of LOTR fan fiction but with really high dollar special effects. The music hasn't wowed me either. I cannot remember a single theme from the score. This show needed to hit a home run with the prologue; however, it felt underwhelming. Whereas I am looking forward to the next episode of HOUSE OF THE DRAGON, this is something that I'll watch when I realize it's available. So far, the show feels like something of a let down. It isn't terrible. It isn't great either. It's something that I'll keep on watching...probably.
Idk, I think your criticisms aren't enough to offset the positives of the show you've talked about. It sounds like your main criticisms were: 1) the cgi will not age well. Idk, I think this isn't fair. If it looks good now, that's what matters. 2) Elrond's character isn't like his established character and is generic. I think he is generic a bit, but I think this is at most a slight negative. 3) Galadriel's character is mightily different and should have been another character, and is generic. I can see her being quite different, but is the portrayal of her single minded tyrannical character bad in and of itself? I think it's a good starting point for a character to grow from. Elves, especially Galadriel, are basically Supermen, right? I'm ok with her having the ability to swim from Hawaii to California and be really tired at the end. My major concern right now is that there will be too many story threads to follow that it will just be a mess.
Visually stunning but there is no flow. I thought everything in the first episode was fine until the fight with the troll in the northern fortress and then it went downhill fast. Stilted conversations, unconnected story jumps, attempts at building character that don't work. All the scenes have the same construction, majestic exterior cgi shots and then very tight interior shots, every time. I realize the Silmarillion and the appendices are not narrative driven like LoTR but they would have done better to make many smaller vignette episodes concentrating on one smaller story than all that jumping around. Am not holding out high hopes and I was one of the people who couldn't give a toss about race/gender swapping or putting things in that weren't from the book, those things weren't the problem everything else was.
When Galadriel talked about not having a word for death my thought was that in the books elves had definitely died by that point. Feanors mother was the first one I thought of. But of course none of that was mentioned, not even the Kinslaying, so maybe no elves had died ever at that point.
Galadriel - they are trying too hard to create a strong female character to the point she makes her soldiers look comically bad. They have her mad and brooding - just trying too hard. She's the worst character of the entire show so far (seen all 4 episodes they've released). Oh well, I'm gonna try to finish all 5 seasons of this one... I've gotta know where they will take this thing.
I’m glad you’re talking about positive stuff too, but while watching this, I remember thinking that they should have taken some of the money they spent on CGI and spent it on better story telling writers who knew Tolkien. I agreed it was like a middling 80’s fantasy show, but it’s not Tolkien.
Thank you for proving how un-Tolkienian this series is. It truly felt like a fanfic than anything like what Tolkien. I really appreciate how honest you are. You echoed my own opinions after watching the first episode.
Other Tolkien Middle Earth movie adaptations in the works at Amazon... Morgoths (ockRing-The History of Little Girth. The Transallarian. Unfinished Pales. The Fall of Gonorrhea. The Children of Rear-in. Baron and Luthando. The Gays of Beleriand. The Lost Pronouns and Other Writing.
Ultimately what's going to kill this show are the creative decisions based on current social trends, rather than an attempt to be faithful to Tolkien's material, or even anything that looks like it was written by people with some experience. With how these first two episodes have been received, I find it very difficult to see how Amazon is going to keep this going for five seasons.
Am I gonna be hated by the community for this opinion. I love Tolkien and I especially love Peter Jackson’s adaptations. I have gone into this show with low expectations and ready to be frustrated and annoyed. I made the conscious decision to separate this from the lore and I have to say…….. sorry……. I’m loving this show so far. Music and visuals are beautiful. The half foots are cool and I enjoy them. Although I don’t like what they have done to Galadriel and Elronds characters (consciously separated from lore) I have found myself invested in their storylines. The dwarves are great and kazad dum is awesome. I’m excited to see what they do with numenor so again SORRY as someone who loves Tolkien I know I should be hatingRings of Power but I’ve found myself invested and enjoying this show
Yes, music should sound otherwordly. Sounds too "terrestrial". Howard Shore's score is so good because it managed to fuse elements and instruments from around the world to come up with something unique.
I do really like it so far and I've been a huge Tolkien fanboy for 20years, I also work in film and games as a narrative designer and there's a huge amount I disagree with but also not my project. I'm just glad that this channel and comment section has genuine and decent critism, not this misonginistic and racist review bombing which honestly is just harming the true criticism...
This is not Tolkien, but a bland woke fantasy world with Tolkien paint. It should be denounced. Especially any "creators" who think they can do better than Tolkien himself.
Thanks for the video as a fan of the channel I loved the breakdown. Honestly since I heard they would be making the series I knew I’d have to separate the show from the books to keep my sanity. I enjoyed that someone is making more Tolkien, but I just wish it was better. I promised myself I wouldn’t nit pick, but how can they say the Elves have no word for death when aman has the Hall of Mandos. There is literally a home for the spirits of their dead. One of the Valar is the keeper of the dead. Also clearly none of the show runners ever read the simarillion. While I’m sure as a princess on both sides of her family she received some combat training. She spends a lot of the first age with Melian in Doriath. Also if she wanted to go back to Valinor she would have the pardon given to her directly after the first age. She said no then but now she gets on the boat. Also did she ditch Celeborn in London? She traveled with him a a contingent of elves to Lindon, but what are that on a break or something? Celeborn ruled the fiefdom of Harlindon till he went east (with Galadriel) … which wasn’t far into the second age. So I’m very confused about the timeline we are working on. Also Celebrimbor wasn’t lord of Eregion till 1300+ into the Second age. Which I’m pretty sure has after Celeborn and Galadriel left Eregion to rule in LothLorien. So I’m not sure who the blonde is pretending to be Galadriel, but the Noldorian Princess from House of Finarfin should be on the other side of the Misty Mountains and has already become the mother of Celebrian in SA 600. So clearly we had some timeline issues. So I’m choosing to think of the series a fan fiction written by writers who wanted to write house of the Dragon or wheel of time, but couldn’t get the gig.
Editing is very bad. Multiple times I could not tell if scenes were meant to occur in the same day or had time pass? There’s a hilarious scene in episode two where two characters are in one city, next scene cuts to them arriving in another city wearing the exact same clothes as if they teleported there. No sense of time or place. Dialogue tries way too hard to be Tolkien inspired that it feels like parody. I actually think the visual effects are overrated. Giving this a very polished and artificial look. I have no compelling interest in the characters. The dialogue is exposition heavy. It exists as a means to get from one visually “stunning”set piece to the next. Many conversations feel these characters are just meeting for the first time but they should feel lived in and more natural. The human woman, elf man storyline is horrendous. She just abandons her kid alone to do what exactly? Also watch those scenes carefully. I honestly can’t tell if it’s supposed to be one day or multiple days. It also does that thing where characters will speak in a foreign language then start speaking in English. Way too many storylines that feel rushed to get to the next one. I feel it appeals to a modern attention span. So many might like it.
Point on the elf children bullying Galadriel- with one of them being so blatantly red headed I kind of took him to be Maedhros and the others to be other children of Feanor, not just random Elf kids.
I put my thoughts on Twitter right after I watched. And man overall boring show. With hit or miss writing. And the only story(out of the like 4) that I liked was Elrond and I hope that story gets expanded
They'll make Elrond incompetent to spotlight Galadriel, he's nothing more than a stepping stool (literally) for her to accomplish whatever goals the writers have.
The reason you like Arondir is because he's not been changed. As much as I'd love 100 pct faithful lore it's not possible. He's the only (new) character so far that carries the spirit of Tolkien to some degree. Elrond, Galadriel, etc are in name only. They could have renamed them and you'd have no idea who they even are. Good review sir and thanks for keeping your integrity!
Thank you all for watching! Please don't go after anyone who likes/doesn't like the show. We're all Tolkien fans here!
Great sentiment
I'm not going to watch the show, I hope Amazon goes so broke that Bezo's has to work for USPS.
I respect the sentiment, but I'm honestly having a really hard time coming to terms with people not understanding why lore breaking is upsetting. there's a fine line between "let people enjoy things" and then also sitting back and watching as my favorite author of all time is not being honored. At times like these though, I really appreciate your content, thank you for the respect and admiration that you clearly show towards Tolkien's lore, even the more obscure parts. I hope that channels like your can inspire a new generation of Tolkien fans who have not had the opportunity yet to read the extended works such as The Silmarillion and The Unfinished Tales.
Even if Amazon didn’t completely poop on the lore, it’s just not a good show. The writing was awful, most of the acting was poor, the pacing was bad, the characters did so many things that made no sense. If you like it then enjoy, but I can’t agree with you.
I can get behind that.
I'm so glad you guys aren't trying to soften your opinions for the sake of optimism like so many of the other Tolkien channels are. It's not about being negative for the sake of being negative but I can trust your opinions and they seem completely genuine :)
“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.”
- Lindsey Weber, E.P. Amazon's LOTR Series, Vanity Fair (Feb. 2022)
"There are certainly themes Tolkien felt were important. We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies. What we were trying to do was to analyse what was important to Tolkien and to try to honour that. In a way, were trying to make these films for him, not for ourselves."
- Peter Jackson, Interview with GreenCine (Dec. 2002)
Being possitive here is being ignorant...objectivity is always a way to go
Almost all the channels I’ve seen are negative. I like the show but can understand everyone’s dissatisfaction. We will have to see. The show needs to get moving sooner than later, though
Well, lets hope it was for the sake of optimism, but in reality looks more like "contractual obligation to amazon" for getting to attend the premier events
Or some of those channels just enjoyed the episodes?
Shadow Of War fans realising their media is no longer the most controversial property to change Tolkien lore: 😁😁😁
LOL that is good hehe
At least that game was fun...
Shadow of War delivered a very good product tho and had some extremely good ideas that could be a good fit in a cannon lore
When Shadow of War looks ten times better.
The things is game never clamed it was canon or that it was better than the original by the developers like actors and other people from ROP production
After watching both episodes. It felt like it was a movie you get on Netflix after selecting because you liked Lord of the Rings.
The other channel Nerd of the Rings mentioned this but the show probably be better if Elrond was the protagonist as the series could follow his life events like how his parents were killed and how his brother chose being a mortal and Elrond choosing the path of immortality. Having the story centre around Elrond's personal life events whilst simultaneously matching with major events of the Second Age sounds much more interesting to me than following a made up hero's journey of Galadriel.
That would be nice. Can't do that because they went and did a show without the rights to the Silmarillion which that definitely would need.
Did you find the “Nerd” unrealistically positive?
I can't be the only one who felt Finrod vowed to hunt Sauron to be kinda out of character, I mean when would he even have the time to actually hunt Sauron or at least thought he would have the time and why hunt him, he's out in the open during the first age not hiding anywhere, Finrod wouldn't hunt him unless he has a personal vendetta against him which is very out of character for Finrod so that doesn't make sense, and if you say that he's hunting him to protect the Noldor, then why hunt sauron there were way bigger fish out there in Beleriand than Sauron, even if you do hunt him down during this time he's a servant of Morgoth and killing him won't stop the armies of Morgoth sure he loses his chief servant but the legions of Morgoth still advance so on a practicality scale, a personal scale Finrod hunting him doesn't make sense unless he has a personal vendetta against him, idk it just feels off and kinda in my opinion butchers the character I feel like it takes the weight away from his heroic sacrifice to save Beren yes I know they don't have the rights but... they clearly know the lore... they could've said he sacrificed himself heroically and that Sauron was responsible for his death which he was, without mentioning the quest of Beren and Luthien, like at least show some respect for the character...
He didn't hunt him down, he ran into him while helping out Beren. Then he lost a rap battle against him, got captured, then got killed by a werewolf in a jail cell.
if you look they even have claw marks and bite marks on his body from wrestling with a werewolf so they are acknowledging they know the real story but still make up garbage
@@jadalba9760 he also slew said werewolf with his hands and teeth! All for saving a mortal man.
It was Morgoth that provoked the oath, not Sauron. Sauron is a lower caste servant and apprentice of Morgoth. Sauron is a much lesser being
It's still their fault for adapting a Second Age story without the right to the Silmarillion.
Giving Finrod a undercut is really stupid and it really bothers me lol. Isn't Finarfin's house known for their long golden hair? And the same goes for all the male elves with short hair. Gil-Galad is the only one that looks great.
Elves with shades, that's to advertise trimmers. Elrondir, the face of ME trimmers. ME stands for Middle-Earth. haha
that really bothered me too for some reason i can let go elronds shorter hair but seeing finrod with hair like that actually made me mad
@@Kamacosby Right? For some reason I can tolerate Elrond but not the rest lol
Felt the same… the whole show has too much of a modern look/style. One of my issues with it.
Gil-galad looks OK. His outfit is bad and and his look way to big.
I liked your points on their treatment of characters like Elrond and Galadriel. My problem is that they are treating them like stock characters rather than as characters with an established history and character. It’s so obvious that they just went “we need an angry young female and a politically smart/ambitious underdog male, let’s just insert them into these character people already know from the movies, no biggie”. And to make it even worse, they are ignoring the canon to tell the blandest fucking story comprised of the most boring cliches and tropes. Galadriel being bullied as a child, the Professor fucking wept…
Yeah, I can't deal with these tropes. Ugh. Galadriel is a mix between an anime protagonist and 1980s action movie hero bent on revenge. I think Steven Seagal would have been a better choice to play her.
I'd have to disagree, they're being treated as characters with their lore still established. It's just tweaked a bit, and it works for the film universe just not the books.
@@Mulcam29 The film universe is shit, including the film universe lore. There, I said it. Should have stuck to the source material.
@@eliteteamkiller319 The film universe and its lore doesn't suck. Jackson and WB did a great job with the games and movies trying to bring what they're allowed to the screen.
@@Mulcam29 I'm sorry, when you said "film universe" I incorrectly assumed you were some Rings of Powerlessness fangirl who didn't understand that Rings of Powerlessness is not THE films of Tolkien (Jackson's are). I was not fully conscious when I responded, so most of that is probably not coherent or logical.
When I saw the two towers in theaters, I hadn't read the books or even watched the first one. In fact, I had never even heard of LOTR before the fellowship movie came out. I thought I would hate the two towers, but despite understanding almost nothing, I was on the edge of my seat the entire time and it became my favorite movie of all time.
I felt absolutely nothing watching this first episode. It felt so...forgettable.
Thats how i got into tolkens books i watched the first one and i was so into it and excited that i read everything i could get my hands on and then later i found this page but this show is so soooo disappointing
Just imagine the four hobbits playing D&D where Pippin is the DM.
Bro that campaign would fall apart so fast lol. Sam is the pala trying to keep everyone in order, Frodo is the rogue-fighter multiclass who is kinda disappointed with his build, and Merry is a rogue-bard multiclass who is just memeing with the DM (Pippin) the whole time hahaha
@@MenoftheWest poor Sam, he has to call off every other session to watch his 13 kids as well, lol
I agree with this
I honestly wouldn't care if you liked it or not, all i ask for is honesty. Appreciate you being straight with your viewers. Respect.
I disagree, in my opinion anyone who likes this can't call themselves a fan of Tolkien's work. If this show was just it's own standalone generic fantasy show it would be bad enough, but the fact that they're wearing Lord of the Rings as a skinsuit just makes it unforgivable.
@@EvidensInsania get a life, dude
@@EvidensInsania IT PUTS THE LOTION ON ITS SKIN, OR ELSE IT GETS THE HOSE AGAIN.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one weirded out by Galadrial getting bullied. Lol.
How else would you introduce a strong and independent she-elf? I'm curios why the heck no one is cat-calling her, thats a big misstep on writer's part
@@Daudlegur Show her doing princess duties, since ya know she...is one?
@@Daudlegur show her battling for equal pay among Elves
yeah it was so ridiculous and so over done. i hate all these choices they made to "empower" women🤦♀️
And it came literally seconds after she said it was before evil existed. Also very un elf like.
See, that whole thing about Elrond and Galadriel not being the real characters, that's a deal-breaker to me. Knowing that they're not going to be telling us the story of these characters, or characterize them faithfully, would just irritate the heck out of me seeing any of them on screen. That in and of itself would drop the show to a 3/10 for me. The marketing already had me thinking it's a 2. I think the 5.5 you gave it is very generous; to me, a show that irritates or bores should be lower than average.
I already have reason not to do business with Amazon. But I had already decided beforehand that I wouldn't watch the show unless I got at least three positive reviews from people I trust. So far, I haven't found one of those yet. But you are one of the reviewers I trust, and the lukewarm/irritated response you gave has convinced me I made the right decision.
I thought I was crazy or missing something based on all the initial reviews. Now that the real ones are coming out I don't feel as insane.
Welcome back. Lol.
"Hollowed out the husks of the characters".
Exactly!
Man it hurts. They could have done any original story of a massive world. Set up a special moment or moments that touch the lore. Or behind something from behind the story of Numinor with good people from Harad, or an Easterling resistance....or something assisted by elite elves...
But this???!! It's undeserving of being called "fan" fiction.... Because whomever shat this out isn't a Tolkien "fan".
It's garbage. Even for a fantasy fiction.... without the names and locations.... It still sucks.
It hurts to lost such hope.
What killed me is when Elrond is writing that speech and how the other elf told him that Galadriel arrived. "Your friend is here." Your friend!? lol no shot Galadriel gets announced like that
And he just goes and marries her daughter
and so Elrond only has a single friend? But most hilariously he responded with "Why didn't you tell me right away?". the messanger brought it up right after the message from the council, 30 seconds later... thats just an example of the awful writing/dialogues
In German she said: „your woman friend is here“, which sounded like „girlfriend“. It was atrocious.
And also Elrond is doing a speech for the High King of the Noldor?? He should be so inspiring as an elven king no one should have to tell him what to say
@@mikaeusbznd744 Yeah, but obviously in their minds the High King of the Noldor is an obtuse, stupid man. I gave to trying to understand the plot with the elves, right there and then.
It had entertaining moments, unfortunately there were too many dead areas and randomness. I had a huge problem accepting the hair of the majority of the male elves. It looked like they belonged in Twilight. Galadriel... they did her wrong.
Yeah I don't remember reading about the elves love of using loads of hairspray in the books.
They made the elves look like the Romans. I couldn't help feeling that at any moment they would start referring to each other, like Claudius, Marcus, Augustus, etc. would start talking about the Senate and the Emperor, while watching the gladiator fights in the Colosseum.
@@masa461 who in the blue hell knows why they decided to change a known formulae. If it ain't broke don't fix it, yet these imbeciles made a conscious choice to make them look that way
The dialogue and writing really felt like twilight as well.
Did her wrong compared to what? The much older Lady of Lorien 3,000 plus years later??
“Gil-galad looks like a manager at a Wendy’s” 😂😂😂💀
Here's my honest opinion after watching the two opening episodes and looking at it from someone who read every Tolkien book released multiple time, yes I'm one of those fans...
I now realise that someone like me (sadly) can never truly enjoy this show looking at it through the lens of a Tolkien fan, I watched it with my wife who has almost no knowledge of Tolkien's books, she enjoyed it, and I understand why she did, it's a well made show with stunning visuals and all the stuff you need to make it an enjoyable fantasy type show.
The moments I did enjoy were mostly visual, all the thing us Tolkien geeks wanted to see brought to life on the screen, I was Soooo excited when this show was announced, visually I don't have that many complaints, I can look past beardless dwarven women , and the colour of elves, It's not a deal breaker for me personally, what is are the massive changes to the characters and story.
Imho even without the rights to The Silmarillion and other books covering this time they could have done a massively better job, so on this side of things for me it's a huge fail, and I'm just left so frustrated :(
This is a very good way to describe where I am as well. I legitimately couldn’t care less about the addition of people of color as elves, dwarves and Harfoots. I actually enjoy that. I also don’t mind the idea that they gave Galadriel a sword, but the way they’re treating her character, and how they’re throwing out her and Elrond’s entire backstories. Like they said in this video: Galadriel is a damn princess, consider one of the wisest and most powerful of all elves, and this is what they’ve done with her? They did her dirty and I’m really struggling. Also, the hair on the male elves. I just can’t. It looks like a bad DnD movie.
Maybe it could be a fine average fantasy series.
But this is not Tolkien. Writing is so below standard. They clearly tried to write in his style, but lacked the skill of the craft, which should have been priority one. Casting, Sets, Effects, Costumes, Props, Music, etc. All vain trapping that mean nothing if the writing is not up to par.
Plus the sadly typical fan attacks in the media lead up to the premiere are an immediate turn Off. Modern film and TV are too full of hubris to accept criticism and just dismiss it all with wildly unfounded name-calling slander.
I would rather just rewatch the Extended Editions again. Time better spent.
At best for me, a 2.5 OUT OF 10.
I'm not anywhere near as versed in the lore as you are, but having listened through the Silmarillion twice I was finding myself very confused about Galadriel, Elrond, and the other elves as well. It's like they didn't actually read the book at all. I found myself skipping through the first episode because it couldn't keep me at all. The scenery of Valinor and the trees was really cool, but that's about the extent of it for me as far as positives for the episode goes. The utter obsession with Sauron is just too out of place for me.
From what I've heard about interviews with the cast, crew and writers, they haven't read the Silmarillion or at least not most of it and seemed disturbingly proud of that fact. They reportedly did hire a Tolkien expert but fired him not long after. Respecting the lore sounded pretty far down on their list of priorities.
From what i understand, i dont beileve they even have rights to the silmarillion. Only some of the notes from lord of the rings
They can only use the books for the hobbit, the Lord of the rings and its appendices. Nothing else.
@@benrichardson3031 This is correct..
I think you put your finger on something. Non of these characters have a back story.
The first scene with Galadriel and the kids bullying her is such a shame. So so bad. It was easy to avoid though. Just do not write such a thing😭😭😭😭😭
We could see that happening from a mile away, unfortunately.
There will be more of that kind of stuff most likely.
The MESSAGE never fails
Why? Elves even fought and kill each other. You can read it in the books
@@manji1993 Adult Elves. Elf-children seem to have been well-behaved, you can read it here:
""The Eldar wedded for the most part in their youth and soon after their fiftieth year. They had few children, but these were very dear to them. Their families, or houses, were held together by love and a deep feeling for kinship in mind and body; and the children needed little governing or teaching."
Morgoth's Ring, Laws and Customs of the Eldar
A sure sign of amateurish writing is the inability to create a strong female character without first making her a victim. If you want a strong, respected character show her being treated with respect by the other characters, especially the males. Not rocket science.
It's like you said in that theory video about Galadriel taking the One Ring. She's almost the same, but not quite after she takes it. She changes. There's something off, something different, something unnatural, not quite right.
Just wait until the rings are forged. Then she'll take one and become the rightful ruler of Middle-earth we all know she should be. The second season will be her leading the assault on the Patriarchy of Valinor, and showing them who should be the true ruler of all creation!
@@jimmyboy131 "And she cast Manwe down, and smote his ruin upon the mountainside..."
I appreciate your honest opinion of this show. I’m not saying that the other Tolkien lore channels aren’t being honest, I just find it hard to believe that they were that cool with most everything that the show does. I love Broken Sword and Nerd of the Rings, but I don’t feel like they’re being completely honest with their viewers. I also know that they all went to London and got various pieces of swag. I also know that you Tolkien lore UA-camrs are all pretty cool with one another….. I hope this doesn’t cause a great divide in the same way that Star Wars has.
I completely agree. I love both channels, but it definitely felt very much like there was no understanding of why people would choose not to watch the show, and if you chose not to, you didn’t belong in the Tolkien community.
I unsubbed from both TBS and NOTRs, they both sold out, which is so sad.
Let's be honest: those people are idiots or cowards. No in between. No logical Tolkien fan will sit there with a straight face and say this is good
@@amandag5072 I don’t think I will, because I do enjoy their non “Rings of Power” content. I can separate the two, but I definitely don’t fault anyone that does. I just remember when the Last Jedi came out and it split the fandom in two. To this day, it’s still in an awful place for pretty much the same reason the LoTR is in right now. Studios and actors attacking fans, fans attacking actors for playing parts, UA-camrs attacking other UA-camrs, UA-camrs attacking their own fans. It’s been a vicious cycle that doesn’t seem to have an end. I guess, unsubbing is probably the most sensible and polite thing to do if that channel breaks your trust, morals or values. I won’t unsub over a difference of opinion, but if they start attacking fans that don’t agree with them, I most certainly will
They aren't being honest frankly, or their standards are waaay too low. Men of the West will likely be too nice and diplomatic to say that, so I will say it. "Fandoms" also don't need to be some unified borg. It's not an official club that can revoke membership for disagreeing, and it's not a big deal if some want to argue about what they like or don't like. That can make for interesting discussion.
an abomination not only trampling upon the grave of J.R.R, but also his son, Christopher's legacy of protecting his father's work until his death.
Well said
Christopher Tolkien wins best son ever.
@@Enerdhil I agree, and the worst part is, I think the remaining members of the Tolkien estate were probably waiting for it too.
It's a shame that no one can just express an opinion anymore, without first announcing a list of disclaimers, to forestall the inevitable backlash of indignation and offense. Opinions vary, and often differ; to the younger generations, who I've noticed especially having difficulty with this, learn forbearance, and go into a discussion preparing to be heard, but not necessarily to always be "right" or to "win."
That was beautifully said and so true! This younger generation has unfortunately come up wit the conclusion that if you are of a different mind then you hate the world but if you conform to the populous then you love it. It is true ignorance at its finest.
@@knightrider5828 Thank you, sir.
the diaclaimers end up doing nothing only wasting everyone's time, Ragers gona rage, just wear your heart on your sleeve and stop pandering to pyschopaths with multiple disclaimers, so lame.
@@knightrider5828 Younger generation? That's hardly accurate.
@@Enerdhil That's just wild.
There are 3 channels I watch for all things Lord of the Rings, 2 of them completely sold their souls for access and it's sad. Thank you for saying what 80% of the fandom is thinking!
Edit: Men of the West is not only my favorite LOTR channel, it was the first one I started watching!
It's the main one I continue to watch. And mostly because Yoystan both knows the lore and is a cool dude.
@@Thomas.Wright absolutely!
Dump those other channels. No need to follow schills
Tolkien Untangled is legit and Rainbow Dave is awesome.
Same for me: I've unsubscribed them: the "ring unboxing" was the final straw for me with one youtuber. I'd like them to compare this series to their own "lore" videos, but they won't dare. It's all, "Look at the pretty pictures".
I had eye rolled more times to count unfortunately. I was really not a fan of either episode. I know their hands are tied with the lore a bit, but I didn't like the lore inconsistencies. I also was not a fan of some of the sets and the dialogue. I felt both episodes were quite boring and a lot of it just was unconvincing.
@Agent of Hydra he’s saying the lore they do have the rights to, they can’t even get that right! This show is a serious bore and none of the characters are captivating.
apparently they do have rights to do the 2nd age but dont have the book the simillarion. but regardless they just did bad job and a lot of it seems forced. i honestly care more about the original characters then galadriel and others because the original characters seem more genuine. which makes me really sad to say. really this is 98 percent a fan fic show.
@@thelilyfarrell Amazon has the rights to only the appendices.
@Agent of Hydra I guess you don’t even know the lore to decipher where they totally screwed it up.
A generic Amazon fantasy series attempting to wear Tolkien's name as a skinsuit and failing at that.
Gil-galad, High King of the Noldor, and one of the wisest Elves ever needed a speech writer to address his own people…... With the bloated budget Amazon has you’re telling me they couldn’t hire a more competent writing team? What a joke.
You don't get it friend. It's THE MESSAGE. It has nothing to do with budget. The writing has to dance around ideology
its a modern allegory just the thing Tolkien loved lol
I haven't read the books in years and so I'm rusty on the whole lore, but the elves felt so much like humans in their interactions and imo didn't really look elvish either.
Yeah that was the most stark mistake for me! They are just Men who have been alive for ages. They just use olden times speech. There's no sense of a higher power in them. The scene in ep2 with Celebrimbor in his office place, the way he moved and talked was just so... normal...
kinda seemed like they were a bit Romanish, you feel that too?
Completely agree.
My god, finally an honest review.
Tolkien channels are wholesome by default, so it's really hard to find someone even trying tos llightly criticise this show without saying they're sorry for doing so or outright making excuses for it.
You can criticise this show for what it is without being "negative" or toxic, it doesn't make the content any less wholesome or true to Tolkien. I think more ppl in the community need to hear this.
At multiple points I found myself thinking "this is just stupid, what an idiotic choice". Practically everything to do with Galadriel is nonsensical fan fiction.
I think CGI ages well when it's:
1. Far away
2. It's in darkness to a degree, whether this be at night (The Lost World 1997), or a murky color grade with crunched blacks (Think the Nazgul attacking Osgiliath, still looks great).
3. It's composited into mostly real environments/ models.
At least those are my thought on it.
Honestly I'd much rather & will continue to watch your Lore videos any day of the week than Amazon's junk. After reading the books, well it's just too far removed.
This was the best review I have come across so far. You guys are both fair and honest. Very thorough explanations of your opinions. I agreed with 100% of it.
Thank you for staying true to the lore and being honest. Respect.
I’m just glad you aren’t doing what Nerd of the Rings did and prop this horrible show above The Hobbit Trilogy. I understand changes have to be made for an adaptation, but they have more than enough source material to make a chow true to Tolkien’s world. You said it perfectly when you said this was low-grade fan fiction.
Galadriel was "banned" from returning to the Valinor because of her rebellious past. Until the end of the third age (having passed the test of refusing the Ring).
What I'm noticing with this show as well as others that are based on estabilished stories (like Star Wars) is that the makers want to just ride the stories and make money without doing any actual work. They seem to have a poor opinion of the fans and expect them to just swallow whateven they put on screen. If they want to tell their own story, they should create their own story and characters. But that would mean having to put in more effort.
Amazon's Galadriel says: You shall love me and despair!
And I'll whisper... No.
Thank you for an honest review. It’s hard for me to listen to all of the positive reviews on the show feels as if they were almost paid for it. So thank you for staying true to Tolkien!
Not everyone that disagrees with you is paid for it. Try geeks and gamers
@@Imaspookykitty I think Tolkien’s fans are so attached to the Legendarium that people tend to take it personal when things go South.
@@vteles tolkien fans are not the same as the annoying outraged incels.
@@Imaspookykitty I like geeks and gamers lol but it’s ok to disagree. Thanks for the reply
@@drumnadrochit23 i could tell
let's just be clear what that was, propaganda, not cinema. once you see it for what it is all its failings and the reasons become self evident. there's nothing much else to say about it. and screw being respectful just to avoid riling up the mob. you're not allowed to dislike the propaganda publicly anymore unless apologizing after every word. that's where we're at. that's why film is dead. the democratization of art and the dilution of vision lead to uniformity of production. that's a degradation in itself.
Spot on my dude. Art has completely been turned onto propaganda. The thing people don't get is that they don't even TRY to make it good...because that isn't the point! It's simply a clunky vehicle to drive home their ideology. A LOTR skinsuit bulging at the seams with a bloated, gangly, lurching monstrosity
@@Enerdhil 6 of one half a dozen of the other
I was surprised that it is rather like a soap opera. Galadriel is elevated over the other characters but she is not likable. The harfoots are Ewoks with Irish accents, there was a decided Mad Max Thunderdome vibe to Moria where the accents are Scottish except for Disa. And boy oh boy is Durin a sensitive dwarf. Who is the bearded face on the armor of the elves guarding the south - Oliver Reed from Castaway? The guy from the meteor (Gandalf) looks and acts like Nick Norte in Down and out in Beverly Hills. Having said that it could have been worse like the 2nd Hobbit movie for instance which eternally fills me with rage. 6 sounds about right. Thanks for a fair and honest review!
I sadly didn't feel the middle earth vibe I felt even with the Hobbit movies. I had also really hoped dwarf women would have some chin hair 😁. There are a fair share of other disappointments , but I needn't list them as they are well represented by this discussion.
I only watched the first episode and decided not to watch the rest of the show. All the characters seemed to me completely different from what they were in the books and LOTR, different and unnatural. But that's just my opinion.
The most I can give this show is that I will watch it with my brain completely switched off.
Honestly, that's more than I can say about the star wars sequels. So I guess there's that...
I can imagine a faithful set of series, or probably a mix of films and series which would adapt and flesh out Arda and all the wonderful stories in Tolkien's works. It could have been great.
The Embracer Group just acquired the rights to everything Lord of the Rings. While primarily a video game publisher they have expressed interest in maybe doing new movies. Hopefully they see the backlash to Amazon's abomination and choose to stay true to what Tolkien envisioned.
now that Christopher Tolkien is gone, I have no hope that the legacy will ever be respected again in my lifetime...that being said i can also imagine a world in which a Children of Hurin or Beren and Luthien show could have been wonderful.
Think it would be hard to make anything truly faithful because Tolkien left too many openings in the first and second age. Mostly myth-like, not stand-alone dramatic stories. Think Beren and Luthien could work. But not much else without a lot of creative additions. Even the creation of the rings of power doesn’t make much sense without knowing what would compel celebrimbor to do something so stupid in the first place. The events need creative glue to make them stick, actual dialogue and side characters, etc. if accuracy is what we are after, our only hope is for the Hobbit to be remade.
Showing fireworks...THIS IS SO GENERIC...lmao hell of a nitpick
I’m glad this video went the way it did. I’ve watched your videos for years and they’ve really enriched my love for Tolkien’s work. You passed the test, much as Galadriel did in denying the ONE RING offered by Frodo. Would have been easy for you to fold and accept the inherently evil “RINGS OF POWER” FROM AMAZON.
Thankfully, you will remain the “MEN OF THE WEST”.
I got chills when Galadriel is asked ‘what is best in life?’, and he replies ‘crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.’
I snorted louder then I should at this..lol well played.
Show: "And so, they chased Morgoth across the ocean to a place called Middle-earth"
Me: "We're not broaching how they got those boats, are we?"
lmao imagining a Noldor in the 2nd age telling that story to their kids and saying "lets just brush over the boat stuff with the telerì"
Ikr the first kinslaying n they jus brush it off 💀
Bullying has become a shortcut in storytelling. When writers want to quickly tell (not show) who the protagonist is and who we should connect with and empathize with, they have minor characters bully that character. It's lazy writing.
What makes it worse is these articles saying all the people who are upset and don’t like the show, it’s because racism, woke bullshit and so on, when in reality it’s because they fundamentally changed the story that influenced every work of fantasy ever written. That’s what I find reprehensible.
RoP is soulless and disrespectful yeah.. The corporate media usually pulls lies like that when you see them attacking fans about something, it's just a smokescreen defensive tactic. They have done it before, for example they behaved similarly in defense of Disney Star Wars. They are getting mad at people for having standards and not just blindly consuming the product.
They really didn't do Finrod any justice!
The actor who played Finrod was actually one of the VERY FEW who looked really good. I wish we could have gotten more scenes with him
@@Daudlegur his undercut was ridiculous. Decent acting on his part. Wish they would have gotten the look of the elves correct. Especially the Calaquendi.
@@seanhartel5362 the person behind the “short-hair, no wigs” decision should be fired lol
@@Daudlegur In the credits Amazon credited one of the actors as "Short Haired Elf".
I wish Morgoth would have had at least two minutes being in this show visually rather than just being mentioned in a dialogue. He was the strongest villain in the lore who Sauron mimicked
That could still happen with the Adar storyline, which is supposed to have flashback scenes from Utumno.
@@meduseldtales3383 unlikely since they have no rights to the first age.
@@purefoldnz3070 Morgoth and Utumno(Udun) are both mentioned in LotR
@@meduseldtales3383 mentioned. Not appearing.
@@meduseldtales3383 Morgoth is mentioned. Utumno is not.
Udun is mentioned as a "region of Mordor", and as "hell" (flame of Udun) per one index I have at hand, and as "flame of [hell], i.e. dwelling of Morgoth beneath Thangorodrim" per another.
I can relate to Yoystan's passionate indignation at how much effort these showrunners must have gone to to hollow out the lore, just to tell an inferior story. It's not even about "Tolkienian purism". If they had used the lore to craft a superior story (and some good acting wouldn't have gone amiss), then it might have been nerd-boy rage, but they didn't, and I'd like to see them try to salvage anything from the dumpster fire they've created.
Thanks for the shoutout! Sounds like we have a lot of similar opinions, though our reviews focused on different things. Great review.
Thanks Joshua! Keep it up man, I highly value your work and input! 🙂
Elrond : go to blessed relm..only there your wound can be healed...
I was like..dude she was born there....you have never been to valanor.....what are you talking about....
This show just sucks.
They are doing game of thrones, and they have slapped on the LOTR name for suckers who think it’s actual Tolkien.
Evil cannot create, it can only corrupt.
Hey there! Cool to see you around here :) Totally agree, by the way :)
RoP is disjointed, has sophomoric writing, wooden acting, and worst of all (by a mile) is the utter disrespect to Professor Tolkien and his wondrous accomplishments. Amazon can't win me over with all the pretty lights. I'm not a monkey.
Based
First they killed Star Wars, my first beloved fandom.
Then, they killed Halo, my beloved childhood.
Now, they strike at Tolkien, the most sacred of fiction. I am sick of this.
I'm sorry bud :(
@@MenoftheWest I still have the memories of the good moments. They can't take those. I'll carry on remembering and sharing these great stories as they were, and should be, and not allow these perversions to taint them any further.
My feelings and thoughts EXACTLY
I feel you, I don't think some people are capable of empathizing with the feeling of heartbreak that some of us fans feel when the things we grew up loving are spat upon, mocked, utterly changed and disrespected.
I have for a few years now watched your channel for the nothing short of the love of Middle Earth. However I have to stop now. While I appreciate that everyone has an opinion, when it comes to media and content these days it feels as if too much negativity has crept in. My choice is to view this as its own adaptation. There are plenty of divergences from the books, however I would rather give this show and all those involved an opportunity to let the story play out and judge it as a whole for what it brings not what it lacks. We all have our own fan fictions we play in our head, let’s see how this plays out on scene.
I will continue to drop in now and then to hear opinions and view content but not with frequency. I truly appreciate your love for Tolkien and wish you the best with your channel.
I was also confused by them treating elrond as an underling
I think it's because they read that Elrond was the herald of Gil-galad and assumed that 'herald' was just a hanger-on and apparently speechwriter without actually looking into what they actually were in the lore.
Thank you for your honesty/integrity! You are one of three creators whose opinions I trusted to be fair. Now that I’ve seen/read reviews from all three, I think I’m going to skip the show and just watch the reviews to see if it turns around.
There are many holes in the writing. I will use one as an example. How can a mother go to another town and just leave her son alone if she thinks there is something weird going on?: I guess these writers don't know what it is to have children. It may seem like something small, but it just show the lack of care for the construction of believable characters and world.
Honestly I had some pretty low expectations from the trailers, but I really tried to be charitable and give it the benefit of the doubt, but my initial suspicions proved to be correct. I'm not a fan. As others have said it didn't feel like Tolkien. Which makes sense considering they largely made this up.
I think it just felt all over the place. My husband, who has not read any of the Tolkien books, felt rather bored. Many stories that lead nowhere. He wholeheartedly disagreed with Meteor Man. We did not like the Elves at all. The hair looks like a hairspray ad from the 80ies, and they simply looked very human, with stuck-on ears. Overall, the male Elves looked...old. Which is just not right. Only exception, strange as it may sound, was Arondir. He somehow demonstrated that etherial air required for an Elf. Elrond felt like a cunning merchant, I felt pain watching him. The dwarves were fine, Disa was just too much. A bit more subdued, she would have been fine.
Van Halen would always require m&ms with all brown one removed. If they didn’t do this they would throw a fit and refuse to play the show. They did this because they’d know the promoter did not read the contract if they didn’t fulfill this small request. It’s not nitpicking when you focus on small details because you know the show runners have not read the lore. How can we expect them to get big things right if they don’t get little things right?
They've absolutely read the lore. They've bent it but nothing from interviews I've seen indicate that they don't know the lore.
They've read the Lore. The contract states they have to get the big things right or they'd lose the rights to produce the show from the Estate.
I went into the two episodes with as open of a mind as I could, and surprisingly the things that I thought would annoy me the most didn’t. I actually really enjoyed the dynamic between Durin and Disa and I’m looking forward to seeing more of it. The three things that lost me completely; elves with short hair. I just can’t get past it. They don’t come off as elves and don’t seem different to me than just an average human. The second is Galadriel. They are make it her to be a vengeful teenager, and is the exact opposite of how she is in the books. As soon as Galadriel called Elrond a politician, I almost turned the tv off. It’s just too much. I do actually hope that meteor man is a blue wizard, I think that would he pretty cool to play out. But yeah, this show should have just been an original show given that other than the names they are using, there’s zero connection to Tolkien. And if they really have Galadriel have some type of romantic connection with Halbrandt (Sauron), then I’m going to lose my fucking mind.
As someone who has read a lot of Tolkien, you're my #1 UA-cam Tolkien expert. Thank you for providing your perspective on this, I had a feeling this was going to be really bad and honestly don't want to give it my time. I don't see it as Tolkien, I loved fan fic Tolkien as a way to describe this. Keep up the great work!!
I totally agree that this felt to me like fanfiction, and really average fanfiction. I went into watching it with some hope, although I really was wondering about Galadriel as a warrior. Even with just using the appendices, it is totally not who she is. But her characterization and of Elves in general -- as you said , the bratty elven children -- did not feel accurate at all. Galadriel as a commander was - as I have had heard others say - the worst combination of a Mary Sue and a Karen. She's the only one who could kill the snow troll? Elrond and Gil-galad, wisest of the wise, come off as conniving politicians. And they can force Galadriel to go into the West and her best idea is to jump into the Sundering Sea to swim all the way back?? The pacing and the dialogue was uneven, trite, and formulaic. The scenery was nice in many places, but compared to PJ's use of the landscape of New Zealand, it was just okay. I liked Durin and his wife, and Khazad-dum was fairly well-done, but so much of the other CGI was just pedestrian. I did not have that sense of place that Peter Jackson and Howard Shore conjured. So far, for nearly $500 billion, this is a disappointing bust for me.
You are now 1 of 2 LOTR content creators that I'm still subscribed to after all this. Those who take the money aren't worth my time, I'm here to nerd out with people who legitimately care about the lore.
Come on guys, be honest. It’s a 2/10. Visually mostly good, the audio was decent, a few of the actors were good. The story is trash, the dialogue was completely awful, Galadriel was not Galadriel, Gil-Galad and Elrond were tools, the Harfoots were pointless. Show your mettle.
Changing the Tolkein masterpiece and adding your own insane made up characters is blasphemous to everything Tolkein. This man spent his entire life creating this masterpiece and these people are so quick to change whatever they choose without any guidance involved. These people aren't even fans of Lord of the Rings they hate the movies just like Disney hated Star Wars so they go out of their way to destroy it and it's truly heartbreaking how disrespectful these people are today.
Well said.
They're not fans of the movies? You sure? Where did you read this?
Get a hold of yourself. My all-time favourite movie is LOTR but even PJ Didn't fully adhere to Tolkein. And for your information, Tolkien's son hated the trilogy.
@@t.a6159 Yes compare movies that have Academy awards to a trash series on Amazon
@@CadillacJak It's been just 3 episode. Its is not a movie bro.
I have listened to the entire soundtrack, it has really grown on me, better then The Hobbit movie trilogy themes, not as good as LOTR themes.
Here is the review I was waiting for. I trust you to give it straight. I've been actively avoiding other reviews waiting for yours first.
I was willing to overlook so many flaws in this series. However, the first two episodes simply don't feel dramatic. They feel melodramatic. I never felt any impending doom or underlying urgency from the story. It almost felt a bit rushed...and, oddly, boring. It just didn't feel like Middle Earth or an urgent story that needs to be told. Despite spending more than a BILLION DOLLARS, it felt inferior in quality, storytelling and acting than THE HOBBIT films.
Moreover, the inclusion of "diversity" (simply for the sake of "diversity") feels somewhat forced to the point of pandering. In Middle Earth, we went from it being mythology for northern Europe to, well, black elves, black hobbits (err, harfoots), black men and black dwarves. However, it almost feels like they cast some characters BECAUSE they were black and not because they were great actors. In addition, it seemed like they threw some shots in for this reason too.
It doesn't quite feel like LOTR or Middle Earth. It doesn't even feel like Skyrim or Westeros. In truth, this show kind of feels like a CW or Starz show with a $1 Billion budget (but, oddly enough, needed better actors). Or, maybe, it feels like a stage production of LOTR fan fiction but with really high dollar special effects. The music hasn't wowed me either. I cannot remember a single theme from the score.
This show needed to hit a home run with the prologue; however, it felt underwhelming. Whereas I am looking forward to the next episode of HOUSE OF THE DRAGON, this is something that I'll watch when I realize it's available. So far, the show feels like something of a let down. It isn't terrible. It isn't great either. It's something that I'll keep on watching...probably.
Music in the trailers blowed hard.
It’s felt like an American drama with a fantasy theme
Idk, I think your criticisms aren't enough to offset the positives of the show you've talked about.
It sounds like your main criticisms were:
1) the cgi will not age well.
Idk, I think this isn't fair. If it looks good now, that's what matters.
2) Elrond's character isn't like his established character and is generic. I think he is generic a bit, but I think this is at most a slight negative.
3) Galadriel's character is mightily different and should have been another character, and is generic.
I can see her being quite different, but is the portrayal of her single minded tyrannical character bad in and of itself?
I think it's a good starting point for a character to grow from.
Elves, especially Galadriel, are basically Supermen, right? I'm ok with her having the ability to swim from Hawaii to California and be really tired at the end.
My major concern right now is that there will be too many story threads to follow that it will just be a mess.
Visually stunning but there is no flow. I thought everything in the first episode was fine until the fight with the troll in the northern fortress and then it went downhill fast. Stilted conversations, unconnected story jumps, attempts at building character that don't work. All the scenes have the same construction, majestic exterior cgi shots and then very tight interior shots, every time. I realize the Silmarillion and the appendices are not narrative driven like LoTR but they would have done better to make many smaller vignette episodes concentrating on one smaller story than all that jumping around.
Am not holding out high hopes and I was one of the people who couldn't give a toss about race/gender swapping or putting things in that weren't from the book, those things weren't the problem everything else was.
When Galadriel talked about not having a word for death my thought was that in the books elves had definitely died by that point. Feanors mother was the first one I thought of. But of course none of that was mentioned, not even the Kinslaying, so maybe no elves had died ever at that point.
Galadriel - they are trying too hard to create a strong female character to the point she makes her soldiers look comically bad. They have her mad and brooding - just trying too hard. She's the worst character of the entire show so far (seen all 4 episodes they've released). Oh well, I'm gonna try to finish all 5 seasons of this one... I've gotta know where they will take this thing.
Galadriel was one of the most powerful and willful of the Noldor. We've zero lore about her early life. I don't think she did needlepoint for eons.
I’m glad you’re talking about positive stuff too, but while watching this, I remember thinking that they should have taken some of the money they spent on CGI and spent it on better story telling writers who knew Tolkien. I agreed it was like a middling 80’s fantasy show, but it’s not Tolkien.
“I feel like I wasted my time watching this”
That resumes it all 😂
Thank you for proving how un-Tolkienian this series is. It truly felt like a fanfic than anything like what Tolkien. I really appreciate how honest you are. You echoed my own opinions after watching the first episode.
This isn't Elrond Half-Elven this is Harold Elrond Half-Elven
Other Tolkien Middle Earth movie adaptations in the works at Amazon...
Morgoths (ockRing-The History of Little Girth.
The Transallarian.
Unfinished Pales.
The Fall of Gonorrhea.
The Children of Rear-in.
Baron and Luthando.
The Gays of Beleriand.
The Lost Pronouns and Other Writing.
Ultimately what's going to kill this show are the creative decisions based on current social trends, rather than an attempt to be faithful to Tolkien's material, or even anything that looks like it was written by people with some experience. With how these first two episodes have been received, I find it very difficult to see how Amazon is going to keep this going for five seasons.
No havinng black people and women isn't going to ruin the show. Get over your reactionary drivel, its pathetic.
Am I gonna be hated by the community for this opinion. I love Tolkien and I especially love Peter Jackson’s adaptations. I have gone into this show with low expectations and ready to be frustrated and annoyed. I made the conscious decision to separate this from the lore and I have to say…….. sorry……. I’m loving this show so far. Music and visuals are beautiful. The half foots are cool and I enjoy them. Although I don’t like what they have done to Galadriel and Elronds characters (consciously separated from lore) I have found myself invested in their storylines. The dwarves are great and kazad dum is awesome. I’m excited to see what they do with numenor so again SORRY as someone who loves Tolkien I know I should be hatingRings of Power but I’ve found myself invested and enjoying this show
Finally an honest review. Thanks!
Yes, music should sound otherwordly. Sounds too "terrestrial". Howard Shore's score is so good because it managed to fuse elements and instruments from around the world to come up with something unique.
I was more entertained listening to you guys, than I was watching the show
I do really like it so far and I've been a huge Tolkien fanboy for 20years, I also work in film and games as a narrative designer and there's a huge amount I disagree with but also not my project.
I'm just glad that this channel and comment section has genuine and decent critism, not this misonginistic and racist review bombing which honestly is just harming the true criticism...
Galadriel doesn’t act wise. She acts like a young elf.
Which is ironic given she'd be one of the oldsr ones at 5000 years old. lol
@@amandag5072 She’s also older than Gil-Galad
Which makes sense in the First Age, but not in the Second Age, especially not in the last part of the Second Age.
Went in knowing they only had access to the appendices and after reading them over the night before... yeah...
Of all the Tolkien Lore channels I follow you guys have been the most honest and true to a high expectation for the show. Thanks for not caving.
This is not Tolkien, but a bland woke fantasy world with Tolkien paint. It should be denounced. Especially any "creators" who think they can do better than Tolkien himself.
Thanks for the video as a fan of the channel I loved the breakdown. Honestly since I heard they would be making the series I knew I’d have to separate the show from the books to keep my sanity. I enjoyed that someone is making more Tolkien, but I just wish it was better.
I promised myself I wouldn’t nit pick, but how can they say the Elves have no word for death when aman has the Hall of Mandos. There is literally a home for the spirits of their dead. One of the Valar is the keeper of the dead.
Also clearly none of the show runners ever read the simarillion. While I’m sure as a princess on both sides of her family she received some combat training. She spends a lot of the first age with Melian in Doriath. Also if she wanted to go back to Valinor she would have the pardon given to her directly after the first age. She said no then but now she gets on the boat.
Also did she ditch Celeborn in London? She traveled with him a a contingent of elves to Lindon, but what are that on a break or something? Celeborn ruled the fiefdom of Harlindon till he went east (with Galadriel) … which wasn’t far into the second age. So I’m very confused about the timeline we are working on. Also Celebrimbor wasn’t lord of Eregion till 1300+ into the Second age. Which I’m pretty sure has after Celeborn and Galadriel left Eregion to rule in LothLorien.
So I’m not sure who the blonde is pretending to be Galadriel, but the Noldorian Princess from House of Finarfin should be on the other side of the Misty Mountains and has already become the mother of Celebrian in SA 600. So clearly we had some timeline issues.
So I’m choosing to think of the series a fan fiction written by writers who wanted to write house of the Dragon or wheel of time, but couldn’t get the gig.
Editing is very bad. Multiple times I could not tell if scenes were meant to occur in the same day or had time pass? There’s a hilarious scene in episode two where two characters are in one city, next scene cuts to them arriving in another city wearing the exact same clothes as if they teleported there. No sense of time or place. Dialogue tries way too hard to be Tolkien inspired that it feels like parody. I actually think the visual effects are overrated. Giving this a very polished and artificial look. I have no compelling interest in the characters. The dialogue is exposition heavy. It exists as a means to get from one visually “stunning”set piece to the next. Many conversations feel these characters are just meeting for the first time but they should feel lived in and more natural. The human woman, elf man storyline is horrendous. She just abandons her kid alone to do what exactly? Also watch those scenes carefully. I honestly can’t tell if it’s supposed to be one day or multiple days. It also does that thing where characters will speak in a foreign language then start speaking in English. Way too many storylines that feel rushed to get to the next one. I feel it appeals to a modern attention span. So many might like it.
Point on the elf children bullying Galadriel- with one of them being so blatantly red headed I kind of took him to be Maedhros and the others to be other children of Feanor, not just random Elf kids.
Yes probably
I put my thoughts on Twitter right after I watched.
And man overall boring show. With hit or miss writing.
And the only story(out of the like 4) that I liked was Elrond and I hope that story gets expanded
They'll make Elrond incompetent to spotlight Galadriel, he's nothing more than a stepping stool (literally) for her to accomplish whatever goals the writers have.
The reason you like Arondir is because he's not been changed. As much as I'd love 100 pct faithful lore it's not possible. He's the only (new) character so far that carries the spirit of Tolkien to some degree.
Elrond, Galadriel, etc are in name only. They could have renamed them and you'd have no idea who they even are.
Good review sir and thanks for keeping your integrity!