A t7 is 450+ pounds/ the t7 world raid is 487 pounds To me its easy to classify bikes into each category Single cylinder sub 650cc= dual sport. These bikes are great on trails, but suck on the highway. Typically these bikes have a 100ish mile range. Examples, crf300rally-crf450rl-ktm500-drz400-dr650-klx300 ect ect Middle weight adv bike 700-900cc. These bikes are typically the most compromise of all categories. They can do single track with the right guy on it, but you can ride it across country. Twin cylinder, Good wind protection, comfortable seat, 200ish mile range. Examples: transalp, t7, 800DE, ktm lc8c powered bikes, ect ect Heavy weight adv bike=900-1300cc. These bikes are typically better on road than offroad. Typically weight 500-600pounds, 225+mile range, great wind protection, super comfortable, heated grips, seats, cruise control ect ect are features the high end bikes. examples triumph tiger explorer 1200, bmw gs(a) r1200/r1250/r1300, Africa Twin, KTM1090-1390, SuperTenere1200 ect ect I think weight of the bike is overly exaggerated in a sense. My t7 is harder to pick up, and is way more top heavy than my 800DE. The t7 isnt balanced as well, is more uncomfortable ect ect. For context, im 43, 170pounds, 6ft. Which age or rider and theor height andnweight is a determining factor when bike shopping. After 20years racing mx and then harescrambles, i hung up the gear. Couldnt take it, and decided ill get 1 do it all bike. After test riding and researching for a year i purchased the t7 when i debuted. I was ok offroad, but had its problems. The brakes and clutch sucked, and they put a street bike engine into an adv frame and ran the exhaust under the oil pan. That raised the center of gravity 4.6inches. That makes it the most top heavy in its class. Riden aggressively it gets about 150miles to the tank-and is no more comfortable than a true dual sport. Then decided to get 2 bikes= a little bit more comfortable mid sized adv bike, and a dual sport. Keeping the t7 as a buddy bike, but got an 800de and crf450rl. Decent combo. I was skeptical about the DE, but its closest bike to compare it to is the T7World Raid Both have the exact same suspension diameter (43mm) travel at 220mm, fuel capacity (5.3gl/23liters) Their differences The World Raid has 3/8ths of an inche more ground clearance, looks better, and is 20pounds lighter than the DE DE has more rider aids, is more comfortable, is uglier, but has a 3 piece frame, fitted with an 18inch aftermarket wheel imstead of the 17inch stock wheel, which brings the ground clearance to 1/8th inch more than the T7WR. The DE has 10hp more, standard quick shift. Fitted with a lithium battery, aftermarket exhaust the DE is the same weight as the T7WR, but has more power, tech and is more comfortable. Heres the real kicker- my standard T7 actually feels heavier on the road and the trail because of the streetbike engine sitting so high, wereas Suzuki built the 800 platform as an adv bike engine and then put it in a streetbike, instead of the opposite. If the Yamahas powerplant was designed to sit 5inches lower while still having the groumd clearance it has, the T7 would be the king of adv bikes. Period. Its just WAY too top heavy for the average rider to be able handle it safely- especially if the rider is a senior citizen, or 5-7 135pounds. Sure there are ALWAYS exceptions, i am not talking about the outliers, i am talking averages. Great video. Great topic. Lets really get the comments section talking..... What is considered "offroad" -anything but pavement? OR -groomed midwest 4×4 trails? OR -rocky mountain single track? OR -USFS/BLM gravel roads? Again, its another subjective topic without objective parameters. Everyone has their owm opinion on what 'offroad' is. In my experience, those definitions are different depending upon a riders ability, talent level and experience. Take that as you will.
I have a BMW 1200GS and a Husqvarna 701. I’m 75 now and the BMW is too heavy and the 701 too tall. I’m thinking about something in the 450 range that has around a 32” seat. Honda NX500, CFMoto 450, Royal Enfield Himalayan 452, KTM 390 Adventure, not sure yet.
I definitely agree, there is no single definition what off-road constitutes, and there is a lot of misconceptions as to what the bikes can do, as they are quite capable, even the heavy ones. Also, what kind of offroad can you really ride, that is, what is legal and within reach for you?
the wet weight of the T7 World Raid is 35 lbs more than the T7 standard, but 12 lbs of that is extra gas in the bigger tank. So if you fueled both the T7 and T7 World Raid to 4.2 gallons - the same amount of gas - a full T7 tank, their weight difference would be 23 lbs more for the World Raid. I'm value better suspension the most, but it seems like adding less than an inch to the World Raid shouldn't weigh 23 lbs more! Why does it weigh so much more? I don't like the tank size on either variant: the 4.2 gallons is too small, and 6.1 is too big. Your Suzuki V-Strom 800DE's tank holds 5.3 gallons is the perfect amount for an Adventure bike IMO. If you fill the T7 World Raid to 5.3 gallons, its wet weight would be 479, while your Suzuki V-Strom 800DE wet weight is 507 lbs. It's hard to believe you can shave off 28 lbs just by replacing the battery with Lithium Ion, and new exhaust. I think you can shave off 10 lbs max with a battery and exhaust, but then the Suzuki V-Strom 800DE would still weigh 18 lbs more than a T7 World Raid with the same amount of gas. Either way, I'm surprised as an ex motocrosser you didn't pick either a KTM 790 Adventure or 890 Adventure R for your "1 do it all bike." I like how you defined the different categories of bikes, although I would define 'middle weight Adventure' bikes slightly differently - I'll add that in another reply. I also found it interesting that you didn't mention (other than your reference to the LC8c engine) as Mid weight examples what I consider to be the four primary contenders for top Mid-Weight Adventure bikes: KTM 890 Adventure R, BMW F900GS, Ducati Desert X, and Triumph Tiger 900 Rally Pro. Your examples included the Honda Trans Alp, Yamaha T7 which I consider to be 'Light Weight Adventure' bikes, and the Suzuki V-Strom 800DE - which also doesn't really compare to the KTM, Ducati, BMW, and Triumph rivals. Weight has to be within a genera of bikes. These guys in the video comparing all bikes to determine "mid-weight" against all generes doesn't make sense. thanks for your interesting post.
I have a Tuareg 660 with 4,500 miles on it. Purchased January of this year. Zero issues or warranty claims. I’ve done 250-300 mile days on it. In pure comfort. With heated grips and cruise control. With 50-70% dirt ratio on those miles and sometimes the dirt is what most would consider dual sport or dirt bike terrain. My other bike I’ve owned since new is a 2016 Beta 300 RR. Before I got the Tuareg I’d been strictly in the dirt my entire life and never owned a street bike of any kind. Honestly I wish hadn’t waited so damn long to get into adventure riding. But I think the idea of one bike to do it all will always leave you sacrificing and “wanting more” in a certain area. Having 2 bikes or N+1 really is the ticket. It took me a lot of hard work to get to the point in my life where I could afford/justify more than one. Terrific discussion and I enjoyed the conversation. Honestly the “perfect” do it all bike will be different for everyone. No two people have the same wants/likes and expectations or the same goals or ride the same terrain. We live in amazing times for adventure riding, consumers are literally spoiled for choice with all the bikes on the market and about to be released.
I sure hope you don’t have any issues in only 4,500 miles. It kills me when European bike guys say things like “My KTM 890 has 7,000 miles and it’s been perfectly reliable” None of these middle weight European bikes make it to 50,000. Especially the 690/701 platform
@@IRLtrollsI hear what you’re saying. There are Tuareg owners that have 20-30k on their 22’s. The bike hasn’t been out that long but still it has a more proven track record for reliability than any of the KTM’s competitors. Japanese manufacturers are not perfect either. There’s a recall and/or service bulletin on all the recent T7 clutches if I’m not mistaken.
@@BoogiemanMoto For sure. Every bike will have an issue. But LongHaulPaul has 200,000 miles on his T7. I’ll eat a carton of cigarettes the day I see a KTM 890 hit that kind of mileage without major repairs needed
The thing that people forget about the Tuareg 660 is the engine isn't exactly unproven. It's been in the Tuono, and they are cranking 100hp out of it in that configuration. The Aprilia won't match Japanese reliability, but it's ont the Aprilia of the old days.
I’m 67 riding a 1996 DR650, it weighs less fully loaded with all my camping gear than a T7 (or any of the 450lb mid weight bikes) do empty. It’s a great BDR bike and if I get in trouble on a hard single track section, I strip off my panniers and camping gear and presto, the bush pig is 350lbs again. I’d love a modern fuel injected powerful bike that’s comfortable on the pavement but I’m just not strong enough to lift these modern beast up if I fall over in the dirt.
I have been in the motorcycle industry both mechanical and parts and sales for over 20 years and I can say confidently that these guys know what they are talking about
I have a 23 Klr adventure…great all around. My biggest issue with bike is the handlebar vibration at highway speeds. I’m 60 years old so my beat up joints feel the vibes more than the younger guys. I also runny super tenere 1200 and love that but I don’t think I’ll sell the Klr. Kind of grown attached to it. Love the 50 plus mpg.
@@mountainlife1165I really got lucky with mine. I don’t get the vibrations in the handlebars or the foot pegs and run it between 65 and 70 for decent stretches.
I have a 2023 klr650s that I have done the cobdr, chatt bdr, and the Smokey Mountain 500, it really is a stout , reliable bike. I am 75 and love riding it.
@19:30....You are speaking my language...I bought a 2020 DR650 new in February 2021...$7,034.34 delivered to my front door. From there I changed almost everything; bought a kilker seat on ADVRider flea market, changed the bars, suspension, tires of course, mirrors, installed a pumper carb, 6.6 liter gas tank, steel brake lines, luggage rack, pivot pegs, vapor, a tech dash with mutlipke power sources...but not a wind screen...cant find one I can stomach.
Been riding for over 50 years and raced for 15. My last adventure bike I bought was a 2010 KTM 990 adventure. I set it up to do long rides and did the "heart of the west" back in 2011. Absolutely the best motorcycle I have ever had, never broke once not even a flat over a 30 day ride out in the middle of no where. Comfortable, dependable, easy to ride and plenty of power. I still have it and its still my favorite bike. I also have a great DRZ400 which I love to ride and a harley road glide i have ridden across the country several times. But the KTM 990 adventure is a bike that I compare all others to. JMO
When I got my KTM 500 I used Malcolm Smiths advice. If you got 100 bucks to spend on your bike, spend 99 bucks on suspension. Also, If i want comfort in the long haul, I have a Street Glide :P
I have a ktm 790 Adventure R. It's the best bike I've ever owned. I have had bmw, triumph, and all the Japanese brands. Ktm has raw power and so balanced and nimble.
I’m building out my YZ450F. It’s got a 2.6 gal tank (stock is 1.6) and it’ll get me over 100 miles. It’s got a big enough stator to run a good light. I plan on trying to complete the Idaho BDR on it. Ultimately though, having more than one bike is the best way. I know most can’t afford it (including me). You are going to be much safer and have a better experience on a bike that’s dedicated to one facet of riding.
Having owned several different bikes and primarily using them for off-road and running around town here in Utah, I recently decided to build up my old 1999 DR 350 dirt model into an ultralight adv/dual sport bike. Converted the stator to run DC full LED lighting including a couple led off-road lights, custom race tech suspension I revolved and sprung myself, aftermarket foot pegs and peg lowering mounts, seat concepts seat fatbar adapter/riser, CR high bend bars, trail tech speedo integrated front turn signal handguards and low profile reatlr turn signals. Case protection, new modern plastics, IMS 3.5 gallon tank Kenda parker DT rear and pirelli scorpion xcmh front tire tusk tank bag and rear traverse ultralight soft bags. Tons of other stuff but you get the idea. I love this bike. Maybe underpowered from a 650 but more nimble and comfortable where I ride and capable to tackle any trail I dare go down.
Im 61 and love my 390 adventure. It is a spicy fun little bike. Ot can handle the interstate and fire roads. It isnt perfect for single track, but can handle it if you have the skill. The new adventure R will be great
Just restored a 03 xr650l. I love it so far with jyst a few mods.Ive got an 07 KLR650 wich i enjoy but the weght difference is so noticeable on the ride. Keep in Rid'n fellas
My answer to this was a Triumph Scrambler 1200 XC. Leaned a bit into styling, but I think it does do everything pretty well. I think the XE version would probably be even better, more travel and a bit more capable off road. Tons of torque, proven engine. The main drawback is weight, at 500 lbs wet. But for 500 lbs you get 81 ft-lbs of torque in 1200ccs. Well the other drawback is price. But man they look sexy. Haven't ridden enough bikes to be able to speak to weight distribution, it might be kinda top heavy. Worth checking out though.
Dual sport and mid size adv are two different things imho. I don’t think you really do adv trips (where there could be significant distances on hwy or dirt) on a dual sport. A 500-600 cc bike with electronics, 6th gear and 350kms range is pretty close.
Here’s something I posted on a KLR 650 page. Ok. I’ve got a little rant. Well, not really a rant, just some things I’ve been thinking about regarding the KLR. In the dual sport/adventure bike world we hear a lot of talk about the “unicorn bike”. I see a lot of people saying things like, “If only they would make a 450 with 12 inches of suspension travel, 13 inches of ground clearance, fuel injection, 70hp, 70lb/ft torque, 300lbs wet weight, 5,000 mile service intervals, capable of long distance travel as well as being a monster in the dirt, and keep the price at $10,000 or less, that would be the unicorn bike.” That’s true. With those kind of unrealistic expectations, something like that would be a unicorn bike, because unicorns don’t exist. With the KLR650, we have a motorcycle that’s been around since 1987. Minus the 3 years it was out of production, that’s a 33 year track record of durable, reliable service. This is a bike that is capable of on and off road travel. It has long range capability with a large fuel tank, a pretty decently comfortable stock seat, wind protection that has only improved through it’s 3 generations of production, and a factory tail rack to strap cargo to. Long maintenance intervals, proven reliability, a huge pool of knowledge about the bike coming from it’s legion of fans, and wide availability of parts and accessories. All this for an msrp of around $6900. Not to mention the awesome experiences and adventures that this long standing bike has taken so many people on. From riding across town to riding across the planet. These stories could fill the New York Public Library. The world of dual sport/adventure motorcycles has grown and developed over many years, and yet no motorcycle has been able check all the boxes that the KLR650 has. As the adventure bike industry runs around frenetically trying to find that mystical creature that looks like a horse with a horn on it’s head, I imagine the KLR650 sitting quietly in the corner, watching, and saying to itself, with a slight grin, “They’ll come around.” I submit to you this. We’ve had the unicorn motorcycle this entire time since 1987. We just got too busy chasing shiny objects to notice it. Rant complete. Please be sure to tip your waitress. Now I’m gonna go grab a fire extinguisher and get ready for the flames.
Everyone should own a KLR. Not to replace any bike or be better at anything but just because of the endless joyful years of service that you’ll get out of it. When all of your European bikes break down, the KLR will live on
Drz-400 with race tech suspension has been the ultimate mid weight adv bike for me. Living in a suburban area I don’t do long highway stretches and trailer to most trails. Small enough to keep up with ktms on single track If you’re a decent rider while being ultra reliable.
I’ve been researching bikes for months now. I’ve m looking at a DRZ on Tuesday that will likely be my next purchase. The mid-weights dont appeal to me because they arent really good on the highway and they aren’t really good on the dirt. I consider the DRZ to be a lightweight adventure bike. I want a bike that is really good at something. 🤷
@@E_Clampus_Vitus totally agree. You’ll love the Drz for that. I lived in Moab Utah for years and that bike was a weapon for exploring all the land out there
Sold my T7 and bought a 2023 KTM 390 Adventure. So much more fun on and off road. The T7's weight was just a bear off road, at least for me since I ride alone.
Mid weight bikes that are OG and for good reason: DR650 KLR650 XR650L These bikes have such a wide capability, mods and parts for days, dead simple to work on, and they’re cheap bikes to pick up. Are they the best at anything? No. But damn they’re work horses!
Seriously. Costs of long term ownership becomes more important each day as this economy continues to crumble. If you’re rich, buy an Italian bike. Or a BMW. When it breaks down, just pay someone else to fix it. Easy peasy. If you aren’t Joe Moneybags, you better wake up quick. 😂
I've been riding for more than 45 years,.. as a kid a 125 did the job after the 90 was too small,.. graduated to a 600 (1985 Ninja) back when the litre bike was a huge bike to be feared. I think the 450 class twin cylinder bikes are going to be a game changer as far as "do-it-all" bikes. I hope BMW makes the 450GS,.. and I an on my second R1200GS , sold my 1190 ADV R for being too top heavy. The T7 is notoriously top heavy, reliable, under-sprung for most people. The KTM 790/890 adv r is not top heavy,.. but then again it's knocking on a litre bike again,.. still 500lbs,.. The other option is the Honda 300 rally,.. It's going to need suspension F/R if you're over 160lbs in gear or want to carry a load. The KLR and XR are super simple, tall, heavy, and needs a lot of mods to make it work for adv specs. These reasons are driving towards 450 range, twin cylinder and light enough to spring heavy enough to handle single track and highway work,.. Agreed there never will be a "perfect" bike for all conditions and terrains,.. I have hopes the next gen of 450 holds some magical tricks,.. it'll need suspension (what doesn't for real adv work?) I'll never again trust a KTM/Husky/GasGas as reliable for way off the beaten path work.
Like you I’ve been riding 50 years. Mini bikes, three wheelers, dirt bikes, sport bikes, UJM’s, trials bikes. No Harley or big touring bike experience. I got into the ADV scene with a BMW F 800GS. Unless you went for a KTM, there just wasn’t much out there in that size at the time. I knew I would prefer something more street oriented than the KTM’s. I still had KTM two strokes for offroad. The 800 had awfully soft suspension and the seat sucked. I swapped out the springs for something that wouldn’t fall on its face the minute you got off a well maintained gravel road, a Sergent Enduro seat, some crash protection, ditch the BMW Vario luggage for some Wolfman soft luggage (the OG made in America stuff) add some good tires and it was a fun, comfortable bike that did a lot things pretty decent. I guess it must be one of favorite bikes over the years since I’ve owned it 15 years now. I’ve never owned any street licensed bike that long. After a few years of barely riding, and most of my riding buddies moving on to other interests, I was getting the bug again to ride. I wanted to explore the local backroads and gravel roads. I bought a Honda CRF 300 Rally. After one ride I was so disappointed with the suspension that I had a new shock and spring ordered within a week. It is a perfectly capable bike for what I wanted, very fuel efficient, low maintenance, comfortable, and completely boring. 😂 I now own a BMW R1250 GS and a KTM 500 EXC I got from a friend who can’t ride anymore. Neither one of those bikes are boring! I guess I don’t really have a point other than choices are good! And there are more options than ever. My 10 year old KTM 500 EXC is probably the most fun, most basic, and cheapest (value wise) bike I own. Go figure.
The Kove 800x pro being the lightest 2 cylinder adv bike on the market right now is really promising. Kove proved to be capable and reliable with their 450 rally and I think they'll do the same with the 800.
If more brands would echo what KOVE achieved with the 450 Rally…. we’d have it made. That’s what the consumer wants. And that’s what the T7 should’ve been.
I've ridden many of the new mid- weight bikes and am always happy to hop back on my XR650. I've taken it on many 2k+ mile bdr type trips and did day 1 of TOI last year....which I will say was brutal on the pig, but it did it.
701 for adventure, long day rides on backroads twisties and hitting some offroad. 500 excf for ds more technical terrain. Ride from my house to any type of terrain imaginable in the foothills and sierras.
Great topic and it sounds like you are both very unbiased with all the bikes listed. A heavy factor that I don’t think was brought up was “ability”. To handle the heavier bikes in the smaller bike areas requires time and training. Too many of us just buy things with the expectation they will do what the videos show. The more ability you add the heavier bike you can handle. Nice work guys.
56yr old here, just got into dual sports a couple yrs ago, adv bikes about 5yrs ago, love my pan am, i can crush miles on a highway and gravel and fire roads are no issue, with that being said, I do not want to pick it up in the woods lol found a dealer with a couple brand new 23 701's, small old school shop, he does alot for racers in the area, i got the bike a little over 2k off msrp, i'm vertically challenged at 5'7, so had him lower it a bit with a suspension set up, I've added a few other tidbits for now, but its winter in Ohio, so I will do more next year, everytime I ride that thing off road I always think, this was a helluva purchase, its o fun, and I gotta admit, I use that quick shifter off road all the time, but being a husky, you have to keep up on the maint, its just higher performance, your not gonna be able to chuck it in the corner after every ride and do nothing to it, like ya'll said, it would be hard to choose just one bike, I do like the T7, but would like sealed wheels with it....I do not mind tubes, but I'm just at the point where I do not want to fix tires on the side of the road, I've checked out the Tubliss brand for inside the wheel, gonna check out those ball inserts at taco moto you were talking about....the ONLY thing that concerns me about the husky is dealers are few and far between.......anyway, I'll shut up lol. sláinte!
Totally agree for the older bikes xr650,dr650! I have 04 1150gsa , I bought it 6 years ago for 4200$ and invest close to 12000$ over the years customizing, and I have arguably most reliable injection bike without electronics, definitely most comfortable of all and I brought it down to 483lbs with 8 gallons of fuel . I did 3 bdr’s and totally 40000mi on/off road. But when I mentioned “arguably most reliable “ I want to say I broke the drive shaft on WYBDR. That means rear wheel is stuck and you cannot push or move the bike even an inch! That’s why I gave up from all drive shaft bikes including my dear baby Pumba for off road riding 😊 My next 50/50 bike will be chain driven and decision is between crf450rl or DR650👍
Straight up the Ducati Desert X or KTM 890 Adventure R Now that I've thrown that spanner in the works, it's great to see you guys doing this!! Love the channel and the discussion!! You've got me hooked! Subscribed!!
Moved to a 701 for all the reasons you guys talked about. Great bike but I’ve already done a lot of mods including the exhaust. It’s the first bike that I ever replaced exhaust on out of necessity. Trying to build the perfect bike ain’t cheap for sure.
I recently bought a Tenere. Love the power being able to get away from cars. Its definitely alot of bike offroad. I just need to ride it like Pol Tarres.😂
I’m really interested in the Ibex 450. I’ve got money down on one at my dealer. I think it’s going to be a fun bike to play around on, and at $6500, it won’t hurt my feelings to drop it, like dropping my 1250 GS would. Great video you guys. I appreciate your perspective.
In Montana/Wyoming, for a mid weight adv dual sport, I would consider a Honda 450rl. Dealer access, reliability (new KTMs aren't bad depending on the model year, but it's still not a Honda), stronger subframe, etc. Mob Moto has a good comparison video on it vs the 500exc. Work Smarter, Not Harder after all....hahaha It'll be my next plated bike after riding that and the FE501. If Kove proves reliable till then and there is more dealer support, it may be a Kove. But the Ultra Bee looks too fun to pass up for enduro (+ 90% less maintenance), so a 450 will have to wait. Plated, I have a 350, 701e, and 890 advr so don't really need a 450 right now, too much overlap. KTMs have been discounted lately though so may be a good option. I've seen 2024 500s for like $8k.
Personally I found that riding a bigger bike keeps me out of trouble. The AT is more than capable of tackling harder terrain as needed, but it reminds me often it wasn't designed for single track. Covering long distance is what it excels at.
I think 600 cc or 650cc is the sweet spot. Not too heavy but enuff power in bigger gravel roads .Aprilia looks good for me here in Europe but here Honda or Suzuki offer nothing ( only 800cc both).
Yep, I’m team Mike on this deal. I rode MX until 41/2006 (finally got tired of breaking myself), mixed with some XR650 trail riding in the mid 90’s. Bike was a ton of fun and unlike my mx’ers it was bone stock. I also agree with big bikes on the trail being a handful, especially when you get tired, heavy beasts. At 59 now, I ride a 1250GSA BUT I LOVE IT. So it will be for two track, dirt and backroads/hwy. I think a 650 is in my near future…maybe for my 60’th next year 👊
@jasonbehr7144 Yes, here the A2 limit is 47hp. I think for some markets the the ninja 500 has more power than the euro version, but most manufacturers don't bother. I don't think a 400 single can make 60hp without race tuning and very small service intervals. I think Honda was dumb with the crf450l. The market wanted a faster crf300l, not a Crf450r with a licence plate.
As someone in the plains where the closest single track is more than 2.5 hours away, I picked CB500x. Long service intervals, incredibly comfortable, off-road capable enough for my local terrain. Also want to say just super excited about this channel's future and would love to see some community set up where we can find others to ride and connect with as the channel grows.
The CRF300L Rally. It's so nice and light off-road, and cruises along nicely on the highway. Aftermarket support is great, and the reliability is Honda-level. All for
The 690/701 with a rally fairing, aux gas tank and cruise control is probably the best heavy lightweight/best lightest middleweight. An adv modded 450/500 is the lightest lightweight adv you're going to get. Unmatched offroad capability with the ability to do highway miles with proper gearing, wind protection and cruise control if you're really laying down a lot of highway miles. Anything over 400lbs isn't worth considering for any serious offroad riding for the average rider. You're going to get hurt, damage your bike, get easily exhausted/fatigued or just not have as good of a time with a heavy bike. If you're doing more road riding than offroad or sticking to well maintained dirt roads, then that's a different story. Then the middle weight or heavy weight bikes make more sense.
I’ve had KLR, F800, 1200 GS, 901Norden. All killer, all heavy pigs. Have the 390 ADV now. Looking forward to the 450 BMW & the 390 Rally. The current 390 is 365 lbs. the T7 is 450lbs or more. Also, the Aprillia 660 is light-ish & gets great reviews.
I had DRZ400 set up for adventure riding. Did NEBDR on it. Nice on single track trails but not pleasant on road. Bought Aprilia Tuareg 660 in 2022 and love it great bike for mix of on and off road
The big thing for me is how well does it crash, so many manufacturers bringing out these bikes especially the bigger variants and they don’t have cradle frames so crash protection relies mounting bars to an alloy engine casing. You can only really take a bike off road when you know dropping it on relatively simple trails isnt going to write it off.
I own a Pan America and a Norden 901, PA for more adv touring and the Norden for more offroad. Using Motoz Tractionator GPS for the PA and for the Norden I use Motoz Tractionator adventure. Looking forward to the new KTM 390 ADV coming out!
I’ve heard good reviews of the new Royal enfield 450. Have two buddies who are serious riders have both ridden it and had great things to say about it.
I have a new Himalayan 450. It goes down the freeway at 80 mph easily and climbs like a goat. The only drive back is it's a little heavy but is easy to pick up because of how it holds its weight. I've owned everything at age 60. It is a KLR killer, IMO.
Ktm 950/990 adventure is the best adventure bike . Amazing considering the was introduced 21 years ago!!! I always com back to them after I got disappointed on my new bike. I recently sold my DesertsX and replaced it with my 4th 9X0. I will keep this one until it falls apart.
No coincidence the best mid-sized, like DR/XR/KLR 650, have been around for 30 years. Simple, do everything except for long highway trips (not very enjoyable on any bike), inexpensive, durable and reliable. Analog i.e. easy to remedy a malfunction on the road. But we trip on ourselves to justify how a more complex and heavier 450 liquid twin is better because it’s got ride settings and a digital gage cluster.
I have a 22 Pan America and 99 XR650l two completely different bikes two completely purposes. That being said I fall into the group that’s not afraid to beat the PanAm up and it’s been good to me so far. In going to do the Big Bend BDR in March on the PanAm because it’s comfortable to ride long distance. But off road performance it’s the XR all day long and I love that bike.
You can get away with a 450-500 lbs adventure bike for most BDRs. But really the 690/701/700 (350lbs wet) are the ideal size, weight, and power for all BDRs. If you struggle to pick it up by yourself fully loaded, it’s too big for you.
I just bought a 2003 XR400R for 3200 and it has about 1,000 ish miles on it. I snatched that thing pronto when I saw it on market place. That's my building platform and I still think it's a pig. 125 motocross is my history.
BMW R1250 GS is what i have but i'm 77 and 138 pounds and mostly ride alone. So i do want another bike around the sub 375 pound mark and do more dirt or gravel road stuff.
I just bought myself a KLR 650 it already had quite a bit of upgrades that I would’ve done myself and only 2300 miles on it. I’m currently adding more lights luggage and suspension upgrades
I’m riding a Pan America, I ride the roads a lot and occasionally fire roads, nothing extreme off-road, although I would love to have more of that capability. I did get Moskos and a few other add-ons but I do agree that something like the T7 would have probably been a great option for someone like me who needs a true hybrid bike. At this point I have what I have and am just adapting the Pan to serve my needs as best it can. May be looking at something more mid-sized like a Norden 901 or T7 when it’s time for e new bike.
I have the dr just cause it fits my body better but I tell everyone u can’t go wrong with the dr or the dr both good bikes and parts and dealers everywhere
CFMoto coming our with a new 800X that is basically the KTM 790 engine with the gas tank the same to so low to the ground. Also, low cost. I live in S America and they are saying it will have this bike in a few months! I'm in my 60s 67 to be exact. Still love riding! I love the Aprillia 600 it checks all the boxes. The only problem is if critically broken you would have to park it for a month while parts comes in. But riding is amazing!
I single tracked my KLR 650 but it was a b.... to pick up. I bought a KLX 250. It is much better for the woods but is useless on the street. I keep one KLR for dirt road exploring and another for street riding. I usually do under 100 miles on the pavement so the KLR is perfect.
I love my 2010 990adv, would love to get a 2004 950 adv and a 2021 690 enduro r. Had a klr650, was ok, the kr650r looks interesting. But I am a ktm fan, have to admit. Wouldn't mind an older carb 690 enduro r as well, thus the 04 950 adv, carb model.
What the hell is this? UA-cam content that isn’t some ‘professional motorcycle reviewer’ sugar coating a press bike he rode for an hour? Talking about bikes that came out in the 1990’s like they are still relevant today in the same sentence where you talk about bikes with fuel injection, ABS, traction control and cruise control? What has happened to my UA-cam feed? Some actual worthwhile content? It can’t be!! Thanks guys, you are what motorcycle enthusiasts need more of.
N+1 Rule! N being the number of bikes you currently have. Its like the mountain bike world, there is no true one bike does all. My goal is to buy one for each day of the week lol
I had high hope when the 750 Transalp was coming out but what a disappointment. If Honda made the 450L like how the 300L is with low maintenance scheduling intervals, that would be the unicorn bike.
I love my KTM LC4 640. I would like to ride the KTM 690 to see how it compares. The 690 is supposed to ride better on the highway, which I wish the LC4 did better at.
Kyle here, I used to own a 640 and loved it, however it was a vibrating monster on the highway. The 690 is waaaay smoother on the pavement,but the 640 is more of a dirt bike off-road
new biker here. where do scramblers fit into this discussion? seems like older guys aren’t likely to spend much time on single track, so just need something that can handle it on occasion, but be most comfortable on pavement and dirt road?
KTM is filing bankruptcy. I have 4 bikes and my go to is my 2014 KLR 650. Love the simplicity, low maintenance cost etc.. I am 60 and I like riding bikes with more horsepower like the wife's Ninja but enjoy puttin on the KLR.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
A t7 is 450+ pounds/ the t7 world raid is 487 pounds
To me its easy to classify bikes into each category
Single cylinder sub 650cc= dual sport. These bikes are great on trails, but suck on the highway. Typically these bikes have a 100ish mile range. Examples, crf300rally-crf450rl-ktm500-drz400-dr650-klx300 ect ect
Middle weight adv bike 700-900cc. These bikes are typically the most compromise of all categories. They can do single track with the right guy on it, but you can ride it across country. Twin cylinder, Good wind protection, comfortable seat, 200ish mile range. Examples: transalp, t7, 800DE, ktm lc8c powered bikes, ect ect
Heavy weight adv bike=900-1300cc.
These bikes are typically better on road than offroad. Typically weight 500-600pounds, 225+mile range, great wind protection, super comfortable, heated grips, seats, cruise control ect ect are features the high end bikes. examples triumph tiger explorer 1200, bmw gs(a) r1200/r1250/r1300, Africa Twin, KTM1090-1390, SuperTenere1200 ect ect
I think weight of the bike is overly exaggerated in a sense. My t7 is harder to pick up, and is way more top heavy than my 800DE. The t7 isnt balanced as well, is more uncomfortable ect ect.
For context, im 43, 170pounds, 6ft. Which age or rider and theor height andnweight is a determining factor when bike shopping. After 20years racing mx and then harescrambles, i hung up the gear. Couldnt take it, and decided ill get 1 do it all bike. After test riding and researching for a year i purchased the t7 when i debuted.
I was ok offroad, but had its problems. The brakes and clutch sucked, and they put a street bike engine into an adv frame and ran the exhaust under the oil pan. That raised the center of gravity 4.6inches.
That makes it the most top heavy in its class. Riden aggressively it gets about 150miles to the tank-and is no more comfortable than a true dual sport.
Then decided to get 2 bikes= a little bit more comfortable mid sized adv bike, and a dual sport. Keeping the t7 as a buddy bike, but got an 800de and crf450rl. Decent combo.
I was skeptical about the DE, but its closest bike to compare it to is the T7World Raid
Both have the exact same suspension diameter (43mm) travel at 220mm, fuel capacity (5.3gl/23liters)
Their differences
The World Raid has 3/8ths of an inche more ground clearance, looks better, and is 20pounds lighter than the DE
DE has more rider aids, is more comfortable, is uglier, but has a 3 piece frame, fitted with an 18inch aftermarket wheel imstead of the 17inch stock wheel, which brings the ground clearance to 1/8th inch more than the T7WR. The DE has 10hp more, standard quick shift.
Fitted with a lithium battery, aftermarket exhaust the DE is the same weight as the T7WR, but has more power, tech and is more comfortable.
Heres the real kicker- my standard T7 actually feels heavier on the road and the trail because of the streetbike engine sitting so high, wereas Suzuki built the 800 platform as an adv bike engine and then put it in a streetbike, instead of the opposite.
If the Yamahas powerplant was designed to sit 5inches lower while still having the groumd clearance it has, the T7 would be the king of adv bikes. Period. Its just WAY too top heavy for the average rider to be able handle it safely- especially if the rider is a senior citizen, or 5-7 135pounds. Sure there are ALWAYS exceptions, i am not talking about the outliers, i am talking averages.
Great video. Great topic.
Lets really get the comments section talking.....
What is considered "offroad"
-anything but pavement? OR
-groomed midwest 4×4 trails? OR
-rocky mountain single track? OR
-USFS/BLM gravel roads?
Again, its another subjective topic without objective parameters. Everyone has their owm opinion on what 'offroad' is.
In my experience, those definitions are different depending upon a riders ability, talent level and experience.
Take that as you will.
All good points. Thanks for taking the time to leave the in-depth comment
I have a BMW 1200GS and a Husqvarna 701. I’m 75 now and the BMW is too heavy and the 701 too tall. I’m thinking about something in the 450 range that has around a 32” seat. Honda NX500, CFMoto 450, Royal Enfield Himalayan 452, KTM 390 Adventure, not sure yet.
I think my ‘18 triumph tiger 800 XCa is a true ADV.
I definitely agree, there is no single definition what off-road constitutes, and there is a lot of misconceptions as to what the bikes can do, as they are quite capable, even the heavy ones. Also, what kind of offroad can you really ride, that is, what is legal and within reach for you?
the wet weight of the T7 World Raid is 35 lbs more than the T7 standard, but 12 lbs of that is extra gas in the bigger tank. So if you fueled both the T7 and T7 World Raid to 4.2 gallons - the same amount of gas - a full T7 tank, their weight difference would be 23 lbs more for the World Raid. I'm value better suspension the most, but it seems like adding less than an inch to the World Raid shouldn't weigh 23 lbs more! Why does it weigh so much more? I don't like the tank size on either variant: the 4.2 gallons is too small, and 6.1 is too big. Your Suzuki V-Strom 800DE's tank holds 5.3 gallons is the perfect amount for an Adventure bike IMO. If you fill the T7 World Raid to 5.3 gallons, its wet weight would be 479, while your Suzuki V-Strom 800DE wet weight is 507 lbs. It's hard to believe you can shave off 28 lbs just by replacing the battery with Lithium Ion, and new exhaust. I think you can shave off 10 lbs max with a battery and exhaust, but then the Suzuki V-Strom 800DE would still weigh 18 lbs more than a T7 World Raid with the same amount of gas. Either way, I'm surprised as an ex motocrosser you didn't pick either a KTM 790 Adventure or 890 Adventure R for your "1 do it all bike." I like how you defined the different categories of bikes, although I would define 'middle weight Adventure' bikes slightly differently - I'll add that in another reply. I also found it interesting that you didn't mention (other than your reference to the LC8c engine) as Mid weight examples what I consider to be the four primary contenders for top Mid-Weight Adventure bikes: KTM 890 Adventure R, BMW F900GS, Ducati Desert X, and Triumph Tiger 900 Rally Pro. Your examples included the Honda Trans Alp, Yamaha T7 which I consider to be 'Light Weight Adventure' bikes, and the Suzuki V-Strom 800DE - which also doesn't really compare to the KTM, Ducati, BMW, and Triumph rivals. Weight has to be within a genera of bikes. These guys in the video comparing all bikes to determine "mid-weight" against all generes doesn't make sense. thanks for your interesting post.
I have a Tuareg 660 with 4,500 miles on it. Purchased January of this year. Zero issues or warranty claims. I’ve done 250-300 mile days on it. In pure comfort. With heated grips and cruise control. With 50-70% dirt ratio on those miles and sometimes the dirt is what most would consider dual sport or dirt bike terrain. My other bike I’ve owned since new is a 2016 Beta 300 RR. Before I got the Tuareg I’d been strictly in the dirt my entire life and never owned a street bike of any kind. Honestly I wish hadn’t waited so damn long to get into adventure riding. But I think the idea of one bike to do it all will always leave you sacrificing and “wanting more” in a certain area. Having 2 bikes or N+1 really is the ticket. It took me a lot of hard work to get to the point in my life where I could afford/justify more than one. Terrific discussion and I enjoyed the conversation. Honestly the “perfect” do it all bike will be different for everyone. No two people have the same wants/likes and expectations or the same goals or ride the same terrain. We live in amazing times for adventure riding, consumers are literally spoiled for choice with all the bikes on the market and about to be released.
I sure hope you don’t have any issues in only 4,500 miles. It kills me when European bike guys say things like “My KTM 890 has 7,000 miles and it’s been perfectly reliable”
None of these middle weight European bikes make it to 50,000. Especially the 690/701 platform
@@IRLtrollsI hear what you’re saying. There are Tuareg owners that have 20-30k on their 22’s. The bike hasn’t been out that long but still it has a more proven track record for reliability than any of the KTM’s competitors. Japanese manufacturers are not perfect either. There’s a recall and/or service bulletin on all the recent T7 clutches if I’m not mistaken.
@@BoogiemanMoto For sure. Every bike will have an issue. But LongHaulPaul has 200,000 miles on his T7. I’ll eat a carton of cigarettes the day I see a KTM 890 hit that kind of mileage without major repairs needed
The thing that people forget about the Tuareg 660 is the engine isn't exactly unproven. It's been in the Tuono, and they are cranking 100hp out of it in that configuration. The Aprilia won't match Japanese reliability, but it's ont the Aprilia of the old days.
I’m 67 riding a 1996 DR650, it weighs less fully loaded with all my camping gear than a T7 (or any of the 450lb mid weight bikes) do empty. It’s a great BDR bike and if I get in trouble on a hard single track section, I strip off my panniers and camping gear and presto, the bush pig is 350lbs again. I’d love a modern fuel injected powerful bike that’s comfortable on the pavement but I’m just not strong enough to lift these modern beast up if I fall over in the dirt.
I agree after your solo on a 450lb bike , drop it 3 time within a hour things go south very fast, DR is a very good choice
+++ on the DR650 being a great starting point for building a adv bike.
I have been in the motorcycle industry both mechanical and parts and sales for over 20 years and I can say confidently that these guys know what they are talking about
Love my 2024 KLR650. It’s still the best all around bike, especially for the money. Accessories are abundant and affordable.
Agreed! Very had to beat the KLR
I have a 23 Klr adventure…great all around. My biggest issue with bike is the handlebar vibration at highway speeds. I’m 60 years old so my beat up joints feel the vibes more than the younger guys. I also runny super tenere 1200 and love that but I don’t think I’ll sell the Klr. Kind of grown attached to it. Love the 50 plus mpg.
@@mountainlife1165I really got lucky with mine. I don’t get the vibrations in the handlebars or the foot pegs and run it between 65 and 70 for decent stretches.
I have a 2023 klr650s that I have done the cobdr, chatt bdr, and the Smokey Mountain 500, it really is a stout , reliable bike. I am 75 and love riding it.
XR or DR 650 are great platforms for an adventure build.
@19:30....You are speaking my language...I bought a 2020 DR650 new in February 2021...$7,034.34 delivered to my front door. From there I changed almost everything; bought a kilker seat on ADVRider flea market, changed the bars, suspension, tires of course, mirrors, installed a pumper carb, 6.6 liter gas tank, steel brake lines, luggage rack, pivot pegs, vapor, a tech dash with mutlipke power sources...but not a wind screen...cant find one I can stomach.
Been riding for over 50 years and raced for 15. My last adventure bike I bought was a 2010 KTM 990 adventure. I set it up to do long rides and did the "heart of the west" back in 2011. Absolutely the best motorcycle I have ever had, never broke once not even a flat over a 30 day ride out in the middle of no where. Comfortable, dependable, easy to ride and plenty of power. I still have it and its still my favorite bike. I also have a great DRZ400 which I love to ride and a harley road glide i have ridden across the country several times. But the KTM 990 adventure is a bike that I compare all others to. JMO
When I got my KTM 500 I used Malcolm Smiths advice. If you got 100 bucks to spend on your bike, spend 99 bucks on suspension. Also, If i want comfort in the long haul, I have a Street Glide :P
I have a ktm 790 Adventure R. It's the best bike I've ever owned. I have had bmw, triumph, and all the Japanese brands. Ktm has raw power and so balanced and nimble.
I’m building out my YZ450F. It’s got a 2.6 gal tank (stock is 1.6) and it’ll get me over 100 miles. It’s got a big enough stator to run a good light. I plan on trying to complete the Idaho BDR on it.
Ultimately though, having more than one bike is the best way. I know most can’t afford it (including me). You are going to be much safer and have a better experience on a bike that’s dedicated to one facet of riding.
Agreed. The right tool for the job is probably best rather than using a multitool
Having owned several different bikes and primarily using them for off-road and running around town here in Utah, I recently decided to build up my old 1999 DR 350 dirt model into an ultralight adv/dual sport bike. Converted the stator to run DC full LED lighting including a couple led off-road lights, custom race tech suspension I revolved and sprung myself, aftermarket foot pegs and peg lowering mounts, seat concepts seat fatbar adapter/riser, CR high bend bars, trail tech speedo integrated front turn signal handguards and low profile reatlr turn signals. Case protection, new modern plastics, IMS 3.5 gallon tank Kenda parker DT rear and pirelli scorpion xcmh front tire tusk tank bag and rear traverse ultralight soft bags. Tons of other stuff but you get the idea. I love this bike. Maybe underpowered from a 650 but more nimble and comfortable where I ride and capable to tackle any trail I dare go down.
Gas Gas ES 700 just got one 1 month ago and love it 😍 350 lbs
Im 61 and love my 390 adventure. It is a spicy fun little bike. Ot can handle the interstate and fire roads. It isnt perfect for single track, but can handle it if you have the skill. The new adventure R will be great
Just restored a 03 xr650l. I love it so far with jyst a few mods.Ive got an 07 KLR650 wich i enjoy but the weght difference is so noticeable on the ride.
Keep in Rid'n fellas
DR 650 ( bush pig ) a legend of a bike
My answer to this was a Triumph Scrambler 1200 XC. Leaned a bit into styling, but I think it does do everything pretty well. I think the XE version would probably be even better, more travel and a bit more capable off road. Tons of torque, proven engine. The main drawback is weight, at 500 lbs wet. But for 500 lbs you get 81 ft-lbs of torque in 1200ccs. Well the other drawback is price. But man they look sexy.
Haven't ridden enough bikes to be able to speak to weight distribution, it might be kinda top heavy. Worth checking out though.
Dual sport and mid size adv are two different things imho. I don’t think you really do adv trips (where there could be significant distances on hwy or dirt) on a dual sport. A 500-600 cc bike with electronics, 6th gear and 350kms range is pretty close.
Agree 💯
50HP and 350lbs would be about the best and most realistic power and weight for a good light-middle weight ADV bike, just my opinion.
Loving my Himalayan 450 right now.
Here’s something I posted on a KLR 650 page.
Ok. I’ve got a little rant. Well, not really a rant, just some things I’ve been thinking about regarding the KLR.
In the dual sport/adventure bike world we hear a lot of talk about the “unicorn bike”.
I see a lot of people saying things like, “If only they would make a 450 with 12 inches of suspension travel, 13 inches of ground clearance, fuel injection, 70hp, 70lb/ft torque, 300lbs wet weight, 5,000 mile service intervals, capable of long distance travel as well as being a monster in the dirt, and keep the price at $10,000 or less, that would be the unicorn bike.”
That’s true. With those kind of unrealistic expectations, something like that would be a unicorn bike, because unicorns don’t exist.
With the KLR650, we have a motorcycle that’s been around since 1987. Minus the 3 years it was out of production, that’s a 33 year track record of durable, reliable service.
This is a bike that is capable of on and off road travel. It has long range capability with a large fuel tank, a pretty decently comfortable stock seat, wind protection that has only improved through it’s 3 generations of production, and a factory tail rack to strap cargo to. Long maintenance intervals, proven reliability, a huge pool of knowledge about the bike coming from it’s legion of fans, and wide availability of parts and accessories. All this for an msrp of around $6900.
Not to mention the awesome experiences and adventures that this long standing bike has taken so many people on. From riding across town to riding across the planet. These stories could fill the New York Public Library.
The world of dual sport/adventure motorcycles has grown and developed over many years, and yet no motorcycle has been able check all the boxes that the KLR650 has.
As the adventure bike industry runs around frenetically trying to find that mystical creature that looks like a horse with a horn on it’s head, I imagine the KLR650 sitting quietly in the corner, watching, and saying to itself, with a slight grin, “They’ll come around.”
I submit to you this. We’ve had the unicorn motorcycle this entire time since 1987. We just got too busy chasing shiny objects to notice it.
Rant complete. Please be sure to tip your waitress. Now I’m gonna go grab a fire extinguisher and get ready for the flames.
Everyone should own a KLR. Not to replace any bike or be better at anything but just because of the endless joyful years of service that you’ll get out of it. When all of your European bikes break down, the KLR will live on
@ I agree 💯!
Don’t forget Dr-z400 A large tank and seat concepts seat will do most people just fine
Drz-400 with race tech suspension has been the ultimate mid weight adv bike for me. Living in a suburban area I don’t do long highway stretches and trailer to most trails. Small enough to keep up with ktms on single track If you’re a decent rider while being ultra reliable.
Coming up on 10 years with my drz. Love the thing. It's a tank.
I’ve been researching bikes for months now. I’ve m looking at a DRZ on Tuesday that will likely be my next purchase.
The mid-weights dont appeal to me because they arent really good on the highway and they aren’t really good on the dirt. I consider the DRZ to be a lightweight adventure bike.
I want a bike that is really good at something. 🤷
@@E_Clampus_Vitus totally agree. You’ll love the Drz for that. I lived in Moab Utah for years and that bike was a weapon for exploring all the land out there
good choice I owned a drz400e with a plate for a year.
@@E_Clampus_Vitus the new 2025 DRZ is coming out soon, I think the 3 best choices CRF300, KLX300 DRZ400
Sold my T7 and bought a 2023 KTM 390 Adventure. So much more fun on and off road. The T7's weight was just a bear off road, at least for me since I ride alone.
Ditto
buying a KLR 650 adventure next week. My first bike and introduction to this space. Great video. thanks.
One of the 3 kings XR/DR/KLR modded to your specs seems to be the way!
Mid weight bikes that are OG and for good reason:
DR650
KLR650
XR650L
These bikes have such a wide capability, mods and parts for days, dead simple to work on, and they’re cheap bikes to pick up. Are they the best at anything? No. But damn they’re work horses!
Seriously. Costs of long term ownership becomes more important each day as this economy continues to crumble.
If you’re rich, buy an Italian bike. Or a BMW. When it breaks down, just pay someone else to fix it. Easy peasy.
If you aren’t Joe Moneybags, you better wake up quick. 😂
I've been riding for more than 45 years,.. as a kid a 125 did the job after the 90 was too small,.. graduated to a 600 (1985 Ninja) back when the litre bike was a huge bike to be feared. I think the 450 class twin cylinder bikes are going to be a game changer as far as "do-it-all" bikes. I hope BMW makes the 450GS,.. and I an on my second R1200GS , sold my 1190 ADV R for being too top heavy. The T7 is notoriously top heavy, reliable, under-sprung for most people. The KTM 790/890 adv r is not top heavy,.. but then again it's knocking on a litre bike again,.. still 500lbs,.. The other option is the Honda 300 rally,.. It's going to need suspension F/R if you're over 160lbs in gear or want to carry a load. The KLR and XR are super simple, tall, heavy, and needs a lot of mods to make it work for adv specs. These reasons are driving towards 450 range, twin cylinder and light enough to spring heavy enough to handle single track and highway work,.. Agreed there never will be a "perfect" bike for all conditions and terrains,.. I have hopes the next gen of 450 holds some magical tricks,.. it'll need suspension (what doesn't for real adv work?) I'll never again trust a KTM/Husky/GasGas as reliable for way off the beaten path work.
Like you I’ve been riding 50 years. Mini bikes, three wheelers, dirt bikes, sport bikes, UJM’s, trials bikes. No Harley or big touring bike experience. I got into the ADV scene with a BMW F 800GS. Unless you went for a KTM, there just wasn’t much out there in that size at the time. I knew I would prefer something more street oriented than the KTM’s. I still had KTM two strokes for offroad. The 800 had awfully soft suspension and the seat sucked. I swapped out the springs for something that wouldn’t fall on its face the minute you got off a well maintained gravel road, a Sergent Enduro seat, some crash protection, ditch the BMW Vario luggage for some Wolfman soft luggage (the OG made in America stuff) add some good tires and it was a fun, comfortable bike that did a lot things pretty decent. I guess it must be one of favorite bikes over the years since I’ve owned it 15 years now. I’ve never owned any street licensed bike that long.
After a few years of barely riding, and most of my riding buddies moving on to other interests, I was getting the bug again to ride. I wanted to explore the local backroads and gravel roads. I bought a Honda CRF 300 Rally. After one ride I was so disappointed with the suspension that I had a new shock and spring ordered within a week. It is a perfectly capable bike for what I wanted, very fuel efficient, low maintenance, comfortable, and completely boring. 😂
I now own a BMW R1250 GS and a KTM 500 EXC I got from a friend who can’t ride anymore. Neither one of those bikes are boring! I guess I don’t really have a point other than choices are good! And there are more options than ever. My 10 year old KTM 500 EXC is probably the most fun, most basic, and cheapest (value wise) bike I own. Go figure.
DR650, if set up right these bikes are bulletproof and you don’t need a computer to rebuild on the trail
The Kove 800x pro being the lightest 2 cylinder adv bike on the market right now is really promising. Kove proved to be capable and reliable with their 450 rally and I think they'll do the same with the 800.
If more brands would echo what KOVE achieved with the 450 Rally…. we’d have it made. That’s what the consumer wants. And that’s what the T7 should’ve been.
800X coming soon
I've ridden many of the new mid- weight bikes and am always happy to hop back on my XR650. I've taken it on many 2k+ mile bdr type trips and did day 1 of TOI last year....which I will say was brutal on the pig, but it did it.
AJP is a Portuguese bike
701 for adventure, long day rides on backroads twisties and hitting some offroad. 500 excf for ds more technical terrain. Ride from my house to any type of terrain imaginable in the foothills and sierras.
AJP is a Portuguese Brand
Great topic and it sounds like you are both very unbiased with all the bikes listed. A heavy factor that I don’t think was brought up was “ability”. To handle the heavier bikes in the smaller bike areas requires time and training. Too many of us just buy things with the expectation they will do what the videos show. The more ability you add the heavier bike you can handle. Nice work guys.
Preach.... DR650 is my choice, and I have done the suspension and it was a massive upgrade
56yr old here, just got into dual sports a couple yrs ago, adv bikes about 5yrs ago, love my pan am, i can crush miles on a highway and gravel and fire roads are no issue, with that being said, I do not want to pick it up in the woods lol found a dealer with a couple brand new 23 701's, small old school shop, he does alot for racers in the area, i got the bike a little over 2k off msrp, i'm vertically challenged at 5'7, so had him lower it a bit with a suspension set up, I've added a few other tidbits for now, but its winter in Ohio, so I will do more next year, everytime I ride that thing off road I always think, this was a helluva purchase, its o fun, and I gotta admit, I use that quick shifter off road all the time, but being a husky, you have to keep up on the maint, its just higher performance, your not gonna be able to chuck it in the corner after every ride and do nothing to it, like ya'll said, it would be hard to choose just one bike, I do like the T7, but would like sealed wheels with it....I do not mind tubes, but I'm just at the point where I do not want to fix tires on the side of the road, I've checked out the Tubliss brand for inside the wheel, gonna check out those ball inserts at taco moto you were talking about....the ONLY thing that concerns me about the husky is dealers are few and far between.......anyway, I'll shut up lol. sláinte!
Totally agree for the older bikes xr650,dr650! I have 04 1150gsa , I bought it 6 years ago for 4200$ and invest close to 12000$ over the years customizing, and I have arguably most reliable injection bike without electronics, definitely most comfortable of all and I brought it down to 483lbs with 8 gallons of fuel . I did 3 bdr’s and totally 40000mi on/off road.
But when I mentioned “arguably most reliable “ I want to say I broke the drive shaft on WYBDR. That means rear wheel is stuck and you cannot push or move the bike even an inch!
That’s why I gave up from all drive shaft bikes including my dear baby Pumba for off road riding 😊
My next 50/50 bike will be chain driven and decision is between crf450rl or DR650👍
Straight up the Ducati Desert X or KTM 890 Adventure R
Now that I've thrown that spanner in the works, it's great to see you guys doing this!! Love the channel and the discussion!! You've got me hooked!
Subscribed!!
Both Top heavy . Had the Norden, took 25 minutes to pick it up once. Not all dumps are flat. Hills suck
Moved to a 701 for all the reasons you guys talked about. Great bike but I’ve already done a lot of mods including the exhaust. It’s the first bike that I ever replaced exhaust on out of necessity. Trying to build the perfect bike ain’t cheap for sure.
Great info fellas, from an old guy riding an AT thinking about downsizing 😉
Very good discussion 👏👏
I recently bought a Tenere. Love the power being able to get away from cars. Its definitely alot of bike offroad. I just need to ride it like Pol Tarres.😂
I’m really interested in the Ibex 450. I’ve got money down on one at my dealer. I think it’s going to be a fun bike to play around on, and at $6500, it won’t hurt my feelings to drop it, like dropping my 1250 GS would. Great video you guys. I appreciate your perspective.
In Montana/Wyoming, for a mid weight adv dual sport, I would consider a Honda 450rl. Dealer access, reliability (new KTMs aren't bad depending on the model year, but it's still not a Honda), stronger subframe, etc. Mob Moto has a good comparison video on it vs the 500exc. Work Smarter, Not Harder after all....hahaha
It'll be my next plated bike after riding that and the FE501. If Kove proves reliable till then and there is more dealer support, it may be a Kove. But the Ultra Bee looks too fun to pass up for enduro (+ 90% less maintenance), so a 450 will have to wait. Plated, I have a 350, 701e, and 890 advr so don't really need a 450 right now, too much overlap.
KTMs have been discounted lately though so may be a good option. I've seen 2024 500s for like $8k.
Way too much maintenance.
Personally I found that riding a bigger bike keeps me out of trouble. The AT is more than capable of tackling harder terrain as needed, but it reminds me often it wasn't designed for single track. Covering long distance is what it excels at.
I think 600 cc or 650cc is the sweet spot. Not too heavy but enuff power in bigger gravel roads .Aprilia looks good for me here in Europe but here Honda or Suzuki offer nothing ( only 800cc both).
Yep, I’m team Mike on this deal. I rode MX until 41/2006 (finally got tired of breaking myself), mixed with some XR650 trail riding in the mid 90’s. Bike was a ton of fun and unlike my mx’ers it was bone stock.
I also agree with big bikes on the trail being a handful, especially when you get tired, heavy beasts. At 59 now, I ride a 1250GSA BUT I LOVE IT. So it will be for two track, dirt and backroads/hwy. I think a 650 is in my near future…maybe for my 60’th next year 👊
I ride a 22 890 ADV S and/or 2011 KLR. Relatively new to motorcycles but I just took the KTM through my first BDRX
AJP PR7 takes the crown
Wait... There's no way the new 390 is making 60hp. Did I miss something?
It will be about 46-49 hp. For euro licenses.
@jasonbehr7144 Yes, here the A2 limit is 47hp. I think for some markets the the ninja 500 has more power than the euro version, but most manufacturers don't bother.
I don't think a 400 single can make 60hp without race tuning and very small service intervals.
I think Honda was dumb with the crf450l. The market wanted a faster crf300l, not a Crf450r with a licence plate.
We just say outlandish statements about hp and keep moving around here.
As someone in the plains where the closest single track is more than 2.5 hours away, I picked CB500x. Long service intervals, incredibly comfortable, off-road capable enough for my local terrain. Also want to say just super excited about this channel's future and would love to see some community set up where we can find others to ride and connect with as the channel grows.
The CRF300L Rally. It's so nice and light off-road, and cruises along nicely on the highway. Aftermarket support is great, and the reliability is Honda-level. All for
The 690/701 with a rally fairing, aux gas tank and cruise control is probably the best heavy lightweight/best lightest middleweight. An adv modded 450/500 is the lightest lightweight adv you're going to get. Unmatched offroad capability with the ability to do highway miles with proper gearing, wind protection and cruise control if you're really laying down a lot of highway miles. Anything over 400lbs isn't worth considering for any serious offroad riding for the average rider. You're going to get hurt, damage your bike, get easily exhausted/fatigued or just not have as good of a time with a heavy bike. If you're doing more road riding than offroad or sticking to well maintained dirt roads, then that's a different story. Then the middle weight or heavy weight bikes make more sense.
I’ve had KLR, F800, 1200 GS, 901Norden. All killer, all heavy pigs. Have the 390 ADV now. Looking forward to the 450 BMW & the 390 Rally. The current 390 is 365 lbs. the T7 is 450lbs or more. Also, the Aprillia 660 is light-ish & gets great reviews.
I had DRZ400 set up for adventure riding. Did NEBDR on it. Nice on single track trails but not pleasant on road. Bought Aprilia Tuareg 660 in 2022 and love it great bike for mix of on and off road
The big thing for me is how well does it crash, so many manufacturers bringing out these bikes especially the bigger variants and they don’t have cradle frames so crash protection relies mounting bars to an alloy engine casing. You can only really take a bike off road when you know dropping it on relatively simple trails isnt going to write it off.
I own a Pan America and a Norden 901, PA for more adv touring and the Norden for more offroad.
Using Motoz Tractionator GPS for the PA and for the Norden I use Motoz Tractionator adventure. Looking forward to the new KTM 390 ADV coming out!
I’ve heard good reviews of the new Royal enfield 450. Have two buddies who are serious riders have both ridden it and had great things to say about it.
I have a new Himalayan 450. It goes down the freeway at 80 mph easily and climbs like a goat. The only drive back is it's a little heavy but is easy to pick up because of how it holds its weight. I've owned everything at age 60. It is a KLR killer, IMO.
I’m surprised you guys didn’t talk about mid weight class leaders. Desert x, 890 adventure, tiger 900.
Ktm 950/990 adventure is the best adventure bike . Amazing considering the was introduced 21 years ago!!! I always com back to them after I got disappointed on my new bike. I recently sold my DesertsX and replaced it with my 4th 9X0. I will keep this one until it falls apart.
T7,R6 and YZ250 for me 👍🏻
Omg ..i knew you would say KLR bwahahahha
I have one myself and still using it 😂😂😂😂
No coincidence the best mid-sized, like DR/XR/KLR 650, have been around for 30 years. Simple, do everything except for long highway trips (not very enjoyable on any bike), inexpensive, durable and reliable. Analog i.e. easy to remedy a malfunction on the road. But we trip on ourselves to justify how a more complex and heavier 450 liquid twin is better because it’s got ride settings and a digital gage cluster.
I have a 22 Pan America and 99 XR650l two completely different bikes two completely purposes. That being said I fall into the group that’s not afraid to beat the PanAm up and it’s been good to me so far. In going to do the Big Bend BDR in March on the PanAm because it’s comfortable to ride long distance. But off road performance it’s the XR all day long and I love that bike.
You can get away with a 450-500 lbs adventure bike for most BDRs.
But really the 690/701/700 (350lbs wet) are the ideal size, weight, and power for all BDRs.
If you struggle to pick it up by yourself fully loaded, it’s too big for you.
If KTM can get they're financial problems under control and they actually get the new 390 Adventure R to the market i want one.
I just bought a 2003 XR400R for 3200 and it has about 1,000 ish miles on it. I snatched that thing pronto when I saw it on market place. That's my building platform and I still think it's a pig. 125 motocross is my history.
I love my Husky 701!
I did the TAT on the BMW F800GS. Looking forward to checking out the 2025 BMW f450 gs adventure.
BMW R1250 GS is what i have but i'm 77 and 138 pounds and mostly ride alone. So i do want another bike around the sub 375 pound mark and do more dirt or gravel road stuff.
Ktm 500 is fine for single track depending on the rider. My buddy just did 5MOH on one with no issues.
Just got a Tenere 700 and a KTM 690. The 690 feels like my crf450R on the road. Tenere feels awesome but heavier.
Street legal version of the Kove 450R Rally feels like the BDR killer I'm looking for.
Yamaha needs to build a YZF WR 600!
I just bought myself a KLR 650 it already had quite a bit of upgrades that I would’ve done myself and only 2300 miles on it. I’m currently adding more lights luggage and suspension upgrades
I’m riding a Pan America, I ride the roads a lot and occasionally fire roads, nothing extreme off-road, although I would love to have more of that capability. I did get Moskos and a few other add-ons but I do agree that something like the T7 would have probably been a great option for someone like me who needs a true hybrid bike. At this point I have what I have and am just adapting the Pan to serve my needs as best it can. May be looking at something more mid-sized like a Norden 901 or T7 when it’s time for e new bike.
I have the dr just cause it fits my body better but I tell everyone u can’t go wrong with the dr or the dr both good bikes and parts and dealers everywhere
CFMoto coming our with a new 800X that is basically the KTM 790 engine with the gas tank the same to so low to the ground. Also, low cost. I live in S America and they are saying it will have this bike in a few months! I'm in my 60s 67 to be exact. Still love riding! I love the Aprillia 600 it checks all the boxes. The only problem is if critically broken you would have to park it for a month while parts comes in. But riding is amazing!
killer vid
My V-Strom650 held up05-2015 surprised lot of Big dirt bikes
Ktm 500 does everything. Some of those things is does great.
I single tracked my KLR 650 but it was a b.... to pick up. I bought a KLX 250. It is much better for the woods but is useless on the street. I keep one KLR for dirt road exploring and another for street riding. I usually do under 100 miles on the pavement so the KLR is perfect.
How about the Himalayan 450 or the nx500? Many other I guess we an call it lightweight adv
Holy shot my worlds are colliding right now what the hell.
Might not be what you want but bvcoffroad makes a fat tire conversion for any bike and I’d think the soft tires would make a comfy ride
I love my 2010 990adv, would love to get a 2004 950 adv and a 2021 690 enduro r. Had a klr650, was ok, the kr650r looks interesting. But I am a ktm fan, have to admit. Wouldn't mind an older carb 690 enduro r as well, thus the 04 950 adv, carb model.
klr650 and tiger 900 RP. that's all I need
What the hell is this? UA-cam content that isn’t some ‘professional motorcycle reviewer’ sugar coating a press bike he rode for an hour? Talking about bikes that came out in the 1990’s like they are still relevant today in the same sentence where you talk about bikes with fuel injection, ABS, traction control and cruise control? What has happened to my UA-cam feed? Some actual worthwhile content? It can’t be!! Thanks guys, you are what motorcycle enthusiasts need more of.
Bought my DR650 for $7034.34. Rebuilt it, soup to nuts, for another 2750 maybe and I have a dope-ass mid weight ADV for under 10 Gs.
What about the Ibex 800 T? Seems like a great bang for the buck.
N+1 Rule! N being the number of bikes you currently have. Its like the mountain bike world, there is no true one bike does all. My goal is to buy one for each day of the week lol
the perfect bike, is 3 bikes.
I have a 14,000$ budget and only have the room for one machine. After considering what’s on the market I have a deposit on a V-Strom 800DE
I had high hope when the 750 Transalp was coming out but what a disappointment. If Honda made the 450L like how the 300L is with low maintenance scheduling intervals, that would be the unicorn bike.
I love my KTM LC4 640. I would like to ride the KTM 690 to see how it compares. The 690 is supposed to ride better on the highway, which I wish the LC4 did better at.
Kyle here, I used to own a 640 and loved it, however it was a vibrating monster on the highway. The 690 is waaaay smoother on the pavement,but the 640 is more of a dirt bike off-road
@ReconMotoMedia I agree 100%.
new biker here. where do scramblers fit into this discussion? seems like older guys aren’t likely to spend much time on single track, so just need something that can handle it on occasion, but be most comfortable on pavement and dirt road?
I have a dr 650 and it not so comfortable but it gets the job done but dream bike is a T7
KTM is filing bankruptcy. I have 4 bikes and my go to is my 2014 KLR 650. Love the simplicity, low maintenance cost etc.. I am 60 and I like riding bikes with more horsepower
like the wife's Ninja but enjoy puttin on the KLR.