This is the first of your movie chats I've watched. I'm 73 and was deep in my Buddhist phase when this came out. My son is your age and was an early blogger and a goth. We bonded over it. I watched it fifty times.
I organise group activities for people with disabilities. The groups come together around a common interest. Sometimes they will get despondent due to a setback or lack of progress on a project. Being a GenX I respond that there is No Spoon! As in the activity and interests are just an excuse or ruse to get us motivated and together so that we can make connections with each other and challenge ourselves. If we remember that there is no spoon, it frees us up to appreciate the positives that have come from getting together in the first place. :)
The Right has no culture. They literally only skimmed something "profound" they didn't fully understand from the surface of the deep pool of meaning this woke movie has to offer for themselves, and made it into something completely shallow and fake that they are able to comprehend
Listening to Max always makes me feel like I'm listening to NPR... or being on a psychologist's couch. "Uhm, uhm... and, tell me, how does that make you feel?" 😆
The opening scene of War Games (which I'm sure you'll get to) does in fact feature Matthew Broderick's character social-engineering the password out of some night shift guy at a TV broadcast station. So, there's your realistic hacking.
It's not a movie, but the show Mr. Robot does actually do a decent job of showing what real hacking would look like, and it can be dramatic with the right scaffolding. Also Rami Malek is amazing in it.
42:09 it’s a film about gender identity as a social construct, so it maps well to really a number of socially constructed systems or norms; gender, capitalism, social media, race, religion - anything where there’s a hegemony that may be oppressive or a utilised as a system of control and power
What kills me is that there is a great Philosopher's talk version of Director Commentary on one of the boxed sets, which includes Cornell West as one of the commentators. It was such a great commentary. I don't know if I'll ever listen to it again, though :/
@Spigele I know its a joke. Ive heard it forever and never really got it. Especially as Nu-Metal is having a bit of a resurgence lately. Although I suppose Metalcore got it for long enough.
Many of the great action movies of the 80's and 90's were cheesy love stories that embraced it without any irony or sarcasm. Highlander, The Crow, Die Hard, Matrix. I miss those times.
I think the big thing that most people miss with the matrix is that it was subject to a ton of studio interference. Like people weren't meant to be batteries, they were meant to be the processors. The Matrix was using our minds to sustain a higher level of thought.
Yes, I also think it was the studio that insisted the people look the same in the Matrix and real world because they thought it would be too confusing. So it might have been the creators' intention to have some better or worse looking, depending on their ego or self-esteem. We know for sure they were going to have one swap gender. Saying it would be too confusing if any of the actors changed sounds like the kind of thing a studio might say if they wanted to get the transgender character out of there without sounding like they were bigots.
I graduated high school in 1999 and remember watching The Matrix with my dad that fall. I think the biggest thing they got wrong was this "war against the machines," there is no war. Our greatest enemy is ourselves. The biggest thing they got right was humanity's destruction to the environment when we darkened the sky. A small thing that sticks out to me, is Neo and Morpheus doing whatever the "Oracle" tells them, with Neo eating a cookie from the Oracle without ever questioning it, probably ingesting some malware.
Hell, it was probably our environmental damage that threatened the machines survival, since they needed us to survive, that forced them to use as food. They had no choice.
That's the Hackers Manifesto, not the declaration of indepence of cyber space. And it was first on film in Hackers. Also Rage Against the Machine isnt garbage. That all aside, I do want to point out this movie did reach alot of uncracked eggs who found themselves in tech spaces and goth and alt spaces at that time. it didn't just impact tech bros.
That was in the Animatrix, "The Second Renaissance" Parts 1 and 2. Note that it was all Machine propaganda in-universe, so who knows how accurate it was.
15:44 dude, also the Architect in the second movie talks about the nightmare matrix Also recognise the legitimacy of all 4 matrix movies - yes even the 4th where Lana totally subverts it and burns it to the ground rather than letting WB resurrect these characters who have (and again trans allegory of Neo and Trinity as two sides of one coin) reached another side of their transition.
9:10 Agent smith confesses to Morpheus about the Matrix versions. The Agents do not mention the Matrix in Neo's interrogation. That would be ridiculous
Unrelated, but with the rise in authoritarianism, conspiracy theories, recent global pandemic, and the moment of Anonymous - would there be an episode of Offline that might work for V for Vendetta?
Dips toe in… sets 10min timer, if this fails to read the commentary of social norms as manufactured, constructed, and protected in cultural mechanisms and the need for “dismantling the race machine” (Butler) and similarly the gender “machine” (easier done looking at the trilogy + 4, than first film alone) I’m tuning out 0:12 like it’s a film franchise conceived and created by two trans women early in their journeys of gender identity and if you don’t see that in Trinity and Neo and all the narrative tensions of trying to bring down or escape the broken oppressive system, the fighting within the software and from outside against the hardware, the absolute plethora of dialogue about choice and determinism, and the final films merging of the two lead characters (who’ve consistently been told for one to live the other has to die or has to prevent the other from going back into the constructed world etc) into the one, if you don’t see the trans and queer narratives in that and talk about it ima flip a table.
It's a mark of what a great story the Matrix was in the first place that you don't have to know it had anything to do with the "trans journey" in order to enjoy it or appropriate it.
I always took the original perfect and the horrible Matrix versions as the Machines literally creating Heaven and Hell on which our religions were then based by the survivors.
'The Matrix' is nothing but a conspiracy theorist's wet dream. P.S. "Trans allegories"!? My eye roll at this point actually hurt my eyes. Edit: I would love to see their trans version of The Matrix come out today. It would bomb, so hard.
@@coloradoterroir8736 The trans reading is only a subset of a greater Weirdos reading that encompasses many groups across the political spectrum, including all of the techbros and religious militants and school shooters and other malicious groups that they mentioned in the discussion... but also just regular (harmless) nerds and outcasts. The most important goal of any work of entertainment is to entertain. If The Message is the primary focus instead, no matter what The Message is, then the entertainment will inevitably suffer. The chuds hate a lot of modern works for being "woke," but the actual reason why many of those works they hate are genuinely bad is because of the above. Their creators were so focused on preaching The Message that they forgot to make their work of entertainment... entertaining. The fact that the gender/trans reading of the Matrix was so buried within the General Weirdos, Philosophy, and Just Good Cyberpunk Cinema readings that it wasn't even noticed for nearly twenty years after its release is to the Wachowskis' credit. I would *not* trust a modern Hollywood remake to even bother with... tact. (and an MCU quipfest is right out.)
... I think you should consider either listening to the Directors' commentaries, interviews, and deep cuts, or else perhaps move on to enjoying a different franchise. This was explicitly acknowledged as the foundation for the whole story, though it was built to be enjoyed on several different levels. This was not made up, it was - to repeat myself - a fundamental through-line for the first movie by itself, and for the trilogy as a whole.
I did not like this movie when it came out, can't be sure, now, haven't seen it since 99. I thought it was icky, juvenile, spiritual hodge-podge aggro bullshit. And probably some other thoughts I haven't bothered with in years. All that not niceness aside, I'd be curious to see what older me might take away from it.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
This is the first of your movie chats I've watched. I'm 73 and was deep in my Buddhist phase when this came out. My son is your age and was an early blogger and a goth. We bonded over it. I watched it fifty times.
Nice vibe between Max and Erin, they make each other laugh and it's relaxed and chill.
Max & Erin are both so funny! So good to see them in the same ep here.
I organise group activities for people with disabilities. The groups come together around a common interest. Sometimes they will get despondent due to a setback or lack of progress on a project. Being a GenX I respond that there is No Spoon! As in the activity and interests are just an excuse or ruse to get us motivated and together so that we can make connections with each other and challenge ourselves. If we remember that there is no spoon, it frees us up to appreciate the positives that have come from getting together in the first place. :)
Welcome to Offline where we talk about the internet
"2011, which is the last time Zara made good sweaters."
Erin chose... violence.
😂
More of this pls
The matrix aged so well it became a cultural touchstone across all political lines
The Right has no culture. They literally only skimmed something "profound" they didn't fully understand from the surface of the deep pool of meaning this woke movie has to offer for themselves, and made it into something completely shallow and fake that they are able to comprehend
Listening to Max always makes me feel like I'm listening to NPR... or being on a psychologist's couch. "Uhm, uhm... and, tell me, how does that make you feel?"
😆
"except for Spotlight" Yes!! Such a winner, I wish there were more like that.
The opening scene of War Games (which I'm sure you'll get to) does in fact feature Matthew Broderick's character social-engineering the password out of some night shift guy at a TV broadcast station. So, there's your realistic hacking.
It's not a movie, but the show Mr. Robot does actually do a decent job of showing what real hacking would look like, and it can be dramatic with the right scaffolding. Also Rami Malek is amazing in it.
This, Mr. Robot is one of the GOATs. Directly inspired by media like the matrix and Fight club
12:10 AOL instant messenger released in 1997. Friendster and myspace released in 2003
Wow, unexpected Tampopo reference. Also, I imagined Studio Ghibli food like 10 sec before you guys mentioned that, too.
55:32 YES Erin! If you watch the 4th Matrix the duality of Neo and Trinity as two sides of the one identity is soooo foregrounded
But, Erin... the Machines simply got the details of Chicago wrong. Records from that time were imperfect.
🤣
(Max kinda touched on this)
I wanted to say. This was a truly delightful conversation to listen to. Big respect to all people involved
42:09 it’s a film about gender identity as a social construct, so it maps well to really a number of socially constructed systems or norms; gender, capitalism, social media, race, religion - anything where there’s a hegemony that may be oppressive or a utilised as a system of control and power
Y’all clarified “Dozer” and “Tank”…but you still got it wrong 😂😂😂
That’s ok. They’re not characters worth remembering.
What kills me is that there is a great Philosopher's talk version of Director Commentary on one of the boxed sets, which includes Cornell West as one of the commentators. It was such a great commentary. I don't know if I'll ever listen to it again, though :/
Whats with the Nu-Metal hate? I grew up loving Slipknot, Korn, Linkin Park etc.
For context, im last of the Millenials.
Probably something to do with Woodstock '99 mostly a joke afaik
@Spigele I know its a joke. Ive heard it forever and never really got it.
Especially as Nu-Metal is having a bit of a resurgence lately. Although I suppose Metalcore got it for long enough.
Same, and especially Rage Against the Machine which has the final song in the movie. I unapologetically think that was great music in that time.
Many of the great action movies of the 80's and 90's were cheesy love stories that embraced it without any irony or sarcasm. Highlander, The Crow, Die Hard, Matrix. I miss those times.
Mr. Robot is probably one of the better examples of real-world "hacking".
I think the big thing that most people miss with the matrix is that it was subject to a ton of studio interference. Like people weren't meant to be batteries, they were meant to be the processors. The Matrix was using our minds to sustain a higher level of thought.
Yes, I also think it was the studio that insisted the people look the same in the Matrix and real world because they thought it would be too confusing. So it might have been the creators' intention to have some better or worse looking, depending on their ego or self-esteem. We know for sure they were going to have one swap gender. Saying it would be too confusing if any of the actors changed sounds like the kind of thing a studio might say if they wanted to get the transgender character out of there without sounding like they were bigots.
3:47 I mean there is literally a copy of Simulacra and Simulation in the movie
Apart from everything else, the Matrix-films were a great symphonic work, too.
I graduated high school in 1999 and remember watching The Matrix with my dad that fall. I think the biggest thing they got wrong was this "war against the machines," there is no war. Our greatest enemy is ourselves. The biggest thing they got right was humanity's destruction to the environment when we darkened the sky. A small thing that sticks out to me, is Neo and Morpheus doing whatever the "Oracle" tells them, with Neo eating a cookie from the Oracle without ever questioning it, probably ingesting some malware.
Hell, it was probably our environmental damage that threatened the machines survival, since they needed us to survive, that forced them to use as food. They had no choice.
Mr. Robot does realistic hacking. And the movie Hackers had things based on real hackers. Also Faith No More is responsible for Numetal.
That's the Hackers Manifesto, not the declaration of indepence of cyber space. And it was first on film in Hackers. Also Rage Against the Machine isnt garbage. That all aside, I do want to point out this movie did reach alot of uncracked eggs who found themselves in tech spaces and goth and alt spaces at that time. it didn't just impact tech bros.
Would be cool to have a prequel to the Matrix
The Animatrix was good and also influential, at least parts of it
That was in the Animatrix, "The Second Renaissance" Parts 1 and 2. Note that it was all Machine propaganda in-universe, so who knows how accurate it was.
15:44 dude, also the Architect in the second movie talks about the nightmare matrix
Also recognise the legitimacy of all 4 matrix movies - yes even the 4th where Lana totally subverts it and burns it to the ground rather than letting WB resurrect these characters who have (and again trans allegory of Neo and Trinity as two sides of one coin) reached another side of their transition.
In that Oceans 8 movie they did a phishing scam.
9:10 Agent smith confesses to Morpheus about the Matrix versions. The Agents do not mention the Matrix in Neo's interrogation. That would be ridiculous
Unrelated, but with the rise in authoritarianism, conspiracy theories, recent global pandemic, and the moment of Anonymous - would there be an episode of Offline that might work for V for Vendetta?
Did she just say meme as..........me.....me
Memes that starts with Me
I immediately went to the comments as soon as I heard the first 10 seconds to see if it wasn't just me. Had to switch to another video.
It’s a type of meme.
I think she said "meme-y" as in quotes that sound like they could be memes
@@ajchimica2031 100%
Dips toe in… sets 10min timer, if this fails to read the commentary of social norms as manufactured, constructed, and protected in cultural mechanisms and the need for “dismantling the race machine” (Butler) and similarly the gender “machine” (easier done looking at the trilogy + 4, than first film alone) I’m tuning out 0:12 like it’s a film franchise conceived and created by two trans women early in their journeys of gender identity and if you don’t see that in Trinity and Neo and all the narrative tensions of trying to bring down or escape the broken oppressive system, the fighting within the software and from outside against the hardware, the absolute plethora of dialogue about choice and determinism, and the final films merging of the two lead characters (who’ve consistently been told for one to live the other has to die or has to prevent the other from going back into the constructed world etc) into the one, if you don’t see the trans and queer narratives in that and talk about it ima flip a table.
It's a mark of what a great story the Matrix was in the first place that you don't have to know it had anything to do with the "trans journey" in order to enjoy it or appropriate it.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Allegory of the Cave, Descartes Meditations, Ghost In The Shell......
I always took the original perfect and the horrible Matrix versions as the Machines literally creating Heaven and Hell on which our religions were then based by the survivors.
OMG, is that really how Americans pronounce Wachowski??? 😢
Girl, did I hear that correctly?? ". blah blah blah... Me Me..." that's cute that if you pronounced Meme incorrectly but if not ... eeek. lol
Wack music takes.
'The Matrix' is nothing but a conspiracy theorist's wet dream.
P.S. "Trans allegories"!? My eye roll at this point actually hurt my eyes.
Edit: I would love to see their trans version of The Matrix come out today. It would bomb, so hard.
You know the directors of the Matrix are trans and have explicitly said it was intended to have a trans allegory in it, right?
????????????????????????????????????
@@coloradoterroir8736 The trans reading is only a subset of a greater Weirdos reading that encompasses many groups across the political spectrum, including all of the techbros and religious militants and school shooters and other malicious groups that they mentioned in the discussion... but also just regular (harmless) nerds and outcasts.
The most important goal of any work of entertainment is to entertain. If The Message is the primary focus instead, no matter what The Message is, then the entertainment will inevitably suffer. The chuds hate a lot of modern works for being "woke," but the actual reason why many of those works they hate are genuinely bad is because of the above. Their creators were so focused on preaching The Message that they forgot to make their work of entertainment... entertaining.
The fact that the gender/trans reading of the Matrix was so buried within the General Weirdos, Philosophy, and Just Good Cyberpunk Cinema readings that it wasn't even noticed for nearly twenty years after its release is to the Wachowskis' credit. I would *not* trust a modern Hollywood remake to even bother with... tact. (and an MCU quipfest is right out.)
... I think you should consider either listening to the Directors' commentaries, interviews, and deep cuts, or else perhaps move on to enjoying a different franchise. This was explicitly acknowledged as the foundation for the whole story, though it was built to be enjoyed on several different levels. This was not made up, it was - to repeat myself - a fundamental through-line for the first movie by itself, and for the trilogy as a whole.
I did not like this movie when it came out, can't be sure, now, haven't seen it since 99. I thought it was icky, juvenile, spiritual hodge-podge aggro bullshit. And probably some other thoughts I haven't bothered with in years. All that not niceness aside, I'd be curious to see what older me might take away from it.
Leather and new metal... or Faith mo more exsited long pre matrix... long. You want is all but you can't have it
It's funnier unedited