A shame the BBC doesn't make programmes like this now instead of endless reality ones about chefs getting upset about a lumpy gravy or people in hi viz waistcoats mincing about airports getting stressed over a flooded toilet.
Every so often, I come back and watch this. I had the pleasure to work with Lt Cdr Tiny Lister during my time in submarines and was also in the WT office for another Perisher which Cdr Dai Evans (RIP Sir) was teacher. I really felt for Tiny, he was one of the good ones when I was part of the same crew. I also met Cdr Dai Evans when he was Commander CSST. He tried to get me to go off the casing and retrieve a man overboard (I was swimmer of the watch on the surface), the man being a bag of garbage. There were a lot of Big basking sharks swimming around the boat at the time, I shouted up to the bridge, “there’s sharks swimming around”, “don’t worry about them, they’re only basking sharks, they won’t hurt you” was the reply from the bridge, “one of them might not be, I would be in if it was a real man overboard” was my reply. “Fair point, ok, end of exercise” was Cdr Evans reply. I look back of these days with great memories. We were given the best training possible and we made friends for life. Sadly as time goes by, I see many old boat mates pass the bar, however, as we all know, the only two certainties in life are taxes and death. DBF.
@@kilm2232 Lol lol, I thought the same until I kept reading. I had a "say what?' moment, thinking as a retired military, that no matter which military an individual is in, disobeying a direct order is trouble for the individual. I found myself relieved and smiling broadly at the finish of the story. Nice story, well done.
I have often known folk criticise failure, be it men like these, those attempting P Coy or others. However, these men all reached a point where they were considered worthy of selection for this course to begin with. That is a level of competence most people will never reach. Pass or fail, any Perisher should feel justifiably proud of even being considered for such a thing.
Dave "tiny" Lister lives just around the corner from myself in plymouth , He bitterly regrets his performance on his CSST course and was found to be suffering the onset of diabetes which was stripping him whilst on course :( Still a great guy just wishes he hadn't been so bombastic whilst on course, his words not mine . Lovely guy
As a USN career (35 years) mustang submariner, one of my jobs was to evaluate the tactical and strategic weapons proficiency of submarine crews. As such, I observed many CO's and can attest these men are the absolute best the Navy can produce. All are nuclear propulsion engineers as well as extraordinarily intelligent. I'm fortunate to have had the opportunity to work with them. Salute!!
I was a Perisher PO for two separate drafts, a fascinating job, I feel very privileged. I did 8 Perisher Courses and saw some great people at work. It was always great to see a Perisher get his act together and thrive.
Watching this in UK in second lockdown in remembrance of my late Uncle: Captain R I M Wood. Many happy memories of him taking me to visit Faslane and fun times at his quarters in Rhu. Died much too young and missed
This was phenomenal to watch. It's so weird - for a lad like myself - to see what the culture was like back in the 80s. Smoking on a submarine, Queen's English speech etc.
@@bonglord9843with a name such as yours, pointing out what is and what isn't "normal"; I'm amazed you know what day of the week it is, mr bong man. Smoking was everywhere as a child in early 90's i still remember ashtrays in shopping centres, plane seat arm rests. 😂
I love how much of a people person the teacher actually was. Of course he had to be brutally strict and objective but you see how he felt for the failures and how delighted he was for the successes. What a fantastic teacher, so many could learn from him ! I was watching this and I was nervous 😂
@Noel Coward phew. I see so much public school bashing. If he was the product of a public school education, and he went in to instruct future submarine commanders then so be it, a glowing endorsement for public schools !
@@DAllan-lz3lg Maybe the public schools system, as it was in the. U.S. back when he was attending, could be highly regarded. As I saw it, they could be on parity with private and parochial schools. Witin the last 25 to 30 years, U.S. schools have moved from strong academics abd teaching critical thinking skills to wokeism, transgender affirming, classes of sexual habits and self stimulation to children of ages as early as 5 and 6 years of age. The teachers, teachers union are pushing crt, activism and protesting. Math, language and sciences are being discouraged.by the same forces mentioned above, as being courses of the oppressors. The current administration is sanctioning it all and will only fund public schools to teach all this stuff from Green New Deal funding. I am a 74 year old retired vet and I and many others see the difference in what is going on not only in public schools, but charter schools, private schools and parochial schools. My apologies for going on so much but it is happening.
Oh to have half the talent of the alleged “failures“! I had the pleasure to work for a graduate of one of these courses and he was by far the best ops director I ever worked for.
I worked with a guy at the Post Office in the late Eighties who was the Sonar Operator on this programme. Plus , by coincidence another guy was in one of the frigates hunting above!!
Thanks for putting this out there. I grew up watching similar programs in the USA when I was growing up, and modern media is utter trash in comparison.
4:12 David Lister! 😂 Mind you, this 1985 program predates Red Dwarf by 3 years. And he's nicknamed Tiny Lister, there was an American actor called Tiny Lister who was in films like The Fifth Element.
For the historical record, the painting of the sub in the Perisher bar was done by a Commando D day veteran who fought at Ouistreham called Charles Forrest; A lovely gentleman who had with him at the time a wolf called Magnet.
belesariius "..."..the painting of the sub in the Perisher bar..... who fought at Ouistreham called Charles Forrest;." 👍🏼 A very fascinating tease, having you wanting more, that would be found on the inside cover of a biographical story. Thank you for posting that info.
Nice seeing the RMAS vessels in the yellow/black colour. I worked at BUTEC in the mid-90s and was lucky enough to sail out to the weapons range on a few occasions to collect folk from submarines who were coming to the mainland for a run ashore. Got to sail up to Rona a few times too and was always happy to see puffins land on the deck!
I think the reason for the abundance of smokers was the cigarettes were free. You had a weekly or monthly allocation of Blue Liner cigarettes which we called 'cancer sticks'. I used to save them up and give to my dad and auntie.
What a great training officer - Kudos....had many like him and yes - it's really tough - but boy does it carry through - The Royal Navy should be proud....as I am sure they are. Well done all.
While at the Centre for Defence Studies at Aberdeen University in the 1980s, we went on a field trip to Ardrossan. Spent the day on HMS Fife charging around off Arran as part of the Perisher course.
Knowing what one CANNOT do is just as important as knowing what one CAN do. Like every other human on this planet, I have several deficits in my abilities... I'm a good assistant but a lousy leader, for example. The danger of being pushed to your limits is that sometimes you find out your limits are much farther down the scale than you thought. But if you can accept your limitations and come to terms with them, you'll often find that it makes you far more effective at the things you're good at.
I am an US Navy sailor from the 60's, we did'nt have missiles, only guns, just depth charges, AS Rocket Depth charges, torpedoes. We were flanked and hounded by Soviet Destroyers during that time...we had 5 inch and 3 " guns so it would have been interesting in a conlflict. times have changed. We had decent sonar, less than adequate analog Fire Control computers, etc.
The quick cigarette break: Love it! So appropriate in times of stress and relaxation. A Miltary tradition of maintaining concentration and comradeship. Eroded over time. M.O.D. No longer allow smoking on/in all bases/ ships etc, NO WONDER morale is low!!!
I did several perishers as crew and it was the only time I really felt sorry for officers, they all desperately wanted to do well and you could see the mind turning to custard as the pressure came on. I think it fair to say that it achieved its aim as in most cases only the best got through, one in particular that made it and shouldn't have will remain nameless but anyone on the Sealion when she left Rosyth after refit will know who I mean.
I did several perisher as crew (WT Shack). Also did a couple with Dai Evans (RIP) as Teacher, met him initially when he was Cdr CSST during a work up. Met him again after leaving, he was running command and control courses for the Oil&Gas industry at RGiT at Montrose.
My dad was an engineer on the Sealion , he did 2 draftings and a refit on it . Happy memories, I remember it doing a refit in Portsmouth around 1982 . I’d sometimes go to work with him during half terms etc. Happy memories.
I was very fortunate as a snottie to spend about 6 weeks in Sealion, as part of my basic officer training. Joined her at Chatham, ended up going down to the Med., left her in Gib. Happy days, loved it! They had no bunk for me so I was on a camp bed down in the torpedo space, Mk 9 on one side and a Mk 8 the other. Just two stories: - heading SW and out of the Channel, lovely sunny day, flat calm, thick sea fog blanking out everything to about 30' above us, I was 2nd OOW, when we were assailed by a massive 'BANG'. Utterly astonishing, just out of nowhere, nothing in sight (not that we could see that far). Then the OOW looked up and pointed. High above us and over to the West, there was Concorde racing across the sky. We'd been caught in the sonic boom. - arriving at Gib., we had to practise towing, or rather, being towed. We had stopped, and the picket boat was being driven by a RAN lieutenant who must have been a bit green, just could not manouevre it alongside. After numerous to-ings and fro-ings, our captain, who was a young two and a half and a top bloke, got totally fed up and said, 'Suggest you heave to, and we'll come alongside you ...' Was just so impressed with the people I met: professional, good humoured, just great guys all of them.
Odd as it may seem now, non-smokers hardly objected in those days. It was so common to be surrounded by smokers that one got used to it. Lighting up now indoors seems to be the equivalent of pulling the pin from a grenade. For the best though, I guess.
I wish they had explained why those who fail cannot continue in the previous position. Clearly they were able and competent enough to be selected for the course in the first place.
It's because the 2nd in command role is effectively a training role for those who are then eligible for the Perisher course. If they go back then they block an opportunity for future would-be captains
This series has become an artefact of the society of the time, in particular the smoking culture, which was still alive and well at all social levels. Then there is the social divide between the officers and their wives (almost all privately educated) and the 'other ranks' and their wives (with 'regional' accents from 'local' schools). In that respect, I don't think the armed forces have changed much, certainly not at the top. When did you last hear a general or an admiral with a Lancashire accent?
When I watch this and see how much pressure they are under and the level they have to perform I think about an average day at my work and laugh at how pathetic I am when the phone rings because someone wants a bit of information in a few days.
Do you have a first rate world class well trained team around you providing you with minute to minute accurate data? You're probably right to be stressed at your work.
Failing is only not attempting something, not reaching for a goal, we’re all humans, some good at this, some at that, but if you never try, that’s the only time you’ll fail
@@natashanicole7408 If they remain in their previous role, they block the job from being used to train the next generation who have to gain the experience necessary to qualify for the Perisher course.
@Pete Muller Later than I expected!! I joined in 1995, can't remember what month......There's been a lot of alcohol consumed since then LOL, must have been about November at a guess, because I remember Salisbury Plain being absolutely freezing during basic training.
I have watched this series before and it is really very interesting and entertaining, and without any spoilers I have to say I felt sorry for the “perishes”, even knowing that the perishes are trying to become the “best of the best” and failure is basically the end of their carrier and possibly their service, teach has to be ruthless as if he passes a candidate and it leads to a failure of command on active service it isn’t like a job where you get a second chance, it could easily lead to injuries, deaths, and the complete loss of a hugely expensive boat and entire crew. I don’t like his attitude but realise it has to be the way it is.
From a civilians point of view it must be absolutely gut wrenching to have failed the course. I understand the reasons why, but still. But also, being the officer assessing the prospective captains must be an awful job to tell someone who's worked their way up the chain for 10+ years to tell them them they haven't made the cut and essentially ended their career in the submarine service. An utterly brutal process. I hope they've managed to find a career elsewhere and managed to make a success of it.
This BBC documentary was produced in 1985, at a time when the Royal Navy still had the Oberon-class diesel-electric submarines in operational service. The normal/diesel-electric submarine Perisher course is now conducted by the Royal Netherlands Navy after the Royal Navy transitioned to a fully nuclear submarine fleet in 1994. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Command_Course
Mclarrens brain is that big his skull has actually had to enlarge to accommodate it! He’s like something from pinky and the brain. Super smart guy. Unfortunate forehead.
@@loyalist5736 They do. I personally know one who did and if you watch the multiple videos there are non RN sailors. What part of that don’t you understand?
A good question, I don’t actually know, but I hope not, a good friend of mine has just re-enlisted in the submarine service and he is a heavy smoker, I believe that the law surrounding smoking allows for it to happen, just like it is in prisons, oil rigs, and I believe hotels are able to designate rooms as either smoking or non smoking but on that one I could be wrong. I think my friend would be able to manage though as he was serving when the law was first introduced, but we will sea.
Can anyone explain to me why, having failed the Perisher, the men are suddenly cast out of the submarine service, never to put to see in a sub again? Surely they would still have been useful as officers at their previous posts, at least for a few years. I'm not especially well versed in the ways of the senior service, but I'm assuming that a great deal of time, effort and treasure was used in training them up to the level they had reached prior to taking the captain's course? Isn't banishing them to some other post rather a waste of all that? I presume that there is some kind of reasoning behind such a policy, I just can't fathom what it might be.
From what i understand, having learned submarine tactics but being unable to captain a boat, the sailers who fail out are fantastic candidates for positions that involve hunting submarines.
It’s a simple test to weed out the officers who aren’t fully appreciative of the high stakes that submarine command is. By virtue of accepting a place on perisher, knowing full well their future career in submarines is on the line, you know these officers are deadly serious and will put everything on the line to succeed. That’s the kind of mentality you need of your future commanders.
I remember watching this when it first came out - just as I had joined the Police and was going through some fairly intensive training myself at RAF Dishforth in Yorkshire. It was brutal in the beginning up at 5.30 drilling and we lost several people on the Police course - this is on a whole other level and if you don't hit the mark you shouldn't be doing the job. My major achievement 2 years in and after 4 months of intensive training was the Police advanced driving / armed response / dip protection course - I passed 1/1 and was driving a V8 3500 Rover Vitesse on the M1 at 160 mph+ at 23 years old, including shouts concerning the IRA who were active at the time. We had SAS (sneaky beaky) train us for the final two weeks - all very exciting - but not for the faint hearted using the vehicle as an offensive weapon at high speeds. And civvies outside the job had no idea what we were training for or the level, not even my own family... we ran two fully armed cars every shift, tooled up and ready to react, first response to any firearms or terrorist action.
Great documentary. I’m not from a military background. Could any more knowledgeable folks answer a question? If they fail the course why are they never allowed back on a submarine? Why can’t they just go back to their previous position? I don’t think they explained it in the programme. Unless I missed it.
If they stayed on subs it’s blocks jobs for the next intake of perishers, it also helps the surface navy because those thatve failed the course know how subs and the tactics works and transfer those skills into hunting subs
Depends on the target, whether it is conventional or nuclear. Conventional almost no passive signature at slow speed, nukes a little noisier but not much. In short the passive signature is minimal and at these close quarters you wouldn't be relying on passive sonar in the surface ship, you'd be using active.... if you knew the sub was in the vicinity.
@@paulwood5803 ,. Ive heard that Passive Sonar can pick up the cavitation from a propeller, or even a bad bearing in an oxygen generator, or worn brushes in an electrical generator. I must ask what is your qualification for such an answer? Looking at your profile all I see is a troll.
@@unitedwestand5100 10 years as an ASW Officer in the RN and one time lead instructor for the Force ASW Adqual course which was the pinnacle of RN ASW attended by Admirals downwards. Below about 6 knots submarine propellors do not cavitate, most machinery if not all is accoustically insulated from the submarine hull so external sound transmission at a detectable level is virtually nil. If you go back into the 1970's Russian submarines were as noisy as a bucket of bolts being rattled and we could track their 50Hz electrical lines, conditions permitting, at hundreds of miles on passive sonar. Don't forget also that above about 6-8 knots the flow noise on a passive sonar array makes them virtually deaf and useless for detection. Plus any meaningful targetting of subs using passive sonar takes hours as you don't get range from passive sonar only a bearing and bearing accuracy varies according to the relative bearing of the target to the array.
@@paulwood5803 ,. I just watched a documentary about the US Virginia class, and their warning system informed their engineers they had a excessive passive sonar signature from a generator. They switched over to another one and the noise went away. The Ship engineers determined the noise was in the commutator. When they broke it down they found the problem was the brushes. The engineer worked 12 straight hours on it. Also, the US, after the Swedish sub incident , installed a shield around the propellers on our subs to eliminate cavitation. They determined even at slow speeds that the cavitation was detectable by passive sonar. Dont get me wrong, but the RN has a lot it could learn from the USN.
A shame the BBC doesn't make programmes like this now instead of endless reality ones about chefs getting upset about a lumpy gravy or people in hi viz waistcoats mincing about airports getting stressed over a flooded toilet.
My God...these were my exact thoughts watching a cooking competition this past week!
I agree 100%!!!
The BBC is dead!
This isn't woke enough for the BBC anymore.
All too macho, and not 'inclusive' enough for the BBC, dear ..
We have the exact same problem on the other side of the pond.......
From a time when the BBC was the best in the world at almost everything they touched. What an excellent series.
Including little kids. :)
Every so often, I come back and watch this. I had the pleasure to work with Lt Cdr Tiny Lister during my time in submarines and was also in the WT office for another Perisher which Cdr Dai Evans (RIP Sir) was teacher. I really felt for Tiny, he was one of the good ones when I was part of the same crew. I also met Cdr Dai Evans when he was Commander CSST. He tried to get me to go off the casing and retrieve a man overboard (I was swimmer of the watch on the surface), the man being a bag of garbage. There were a lot of Big basking sharks swimming around the boat at the time, I shouted up to the bridge, “there’s sharks swimming around”, “don’t worry about them, they’re only basking sharks, they won’t hurt you” was the reply from the bridge, “one of them might not be, I would be in if it was a real man overboard” was my reply. “Fair point, ok, end of exercise” was Cdr Evans reply. I look back of these days with great memories. We were given the best training possible and we made friends for life. Sadly as time goes by, I see many old boat mates pass the bar, however, as we all know, the only two certainties in life are taxes and death. DBF.
Great comment.
Tiny became our Jimmy on Cleo and was a brilliant bloke. Made a great team with Tom le Marchand & Tony Rowe hunting Victor IIIs.
Haha, I thought you meant it was a real overboard and the guy was a bag of garbage not worth saving!
@@kilm2232 Lol lol, I thought the same until I kept reading. I had a "say what?' moment, thinking as a retired military, that no matter which military an individual is in, disobeying a direct order is trouble for the individual. I found myself relieved and smiling broadly at the finish of the story. Nice story, well done.
You mean a bag of rubbish?😉
I have often known folk criticise failure, be it men like these, those attempting P Coy or others. However, these men all reached a point where they were considered worthy of selection for this course to begin with. That is a level of competence most people will never reach. Pass or fail, any Perisher should feel justifiably proud of even being considered for such a thing.
Dead right, Michael. Applaudable, all of them.
Dave "tiny" Lister lives just around the corner from myself in plymouth , He bitterly regrets his performance on his CSST course and was found to be suffering the onset of diabetes which was stripping him whilst on course :( Still a great guy just wishes he hadn't been so bombastic whilst on course, his words not mine . Lovely guy
@@MrDiredemon A very amenable looking bloke
I wish him well
P Coy... respect!
How can we fail if we don't try in the first place?
As a USN career (35 years) mustang submariner, one of my jobs was to evaluate the tactical and strategic weapons proficiency of submarine crews. As such, I observed many CO's and can attest these men are the absolute best the Navy can produce. All are nuclear propulsion engineers as well as extraordinarily intelligent. I'm fortunate to have had the opportunity to work with them. Salute!!
does the US military pay all of these retired zogbots to go around youtube comments making these types of comments?
Good documentary completely stripped of dumb sounds bites, cheesy narrators, and overdramatic background music.
Good point, nowadays is hard to see documentaries that are not dramatized or narrated by "stars".
And the subject is a fresh angle on the "submarine documentary"
Amen to that
I was a Perisher PO for two separate drafts, a fascinating job, I feel very privileged. I did 8 Perisher Courses and saw some great people at work. It was always great to see a Perisher get his act together and thrive.
This course, with TV cameras watching every moment. Respect.
And cameras are still big things to hunk around then especially in that small sub. I was in Army so respect their service.
I had the privilege of attending two emergency response courses led by Dai Evans (Teacher) in 2004. A true gentleman and phenomenal tutor. RIP Dai.
That intro music is why I love music from the 80s. So retro!
When you want Vangelis and get a ZX Spectrum.
Die Evans I remember him well from first draft on Cachalot.
Watching this in UK in second lockdown in remembrance of my late Uncle: Captain R I M Wood. Many happy memories of him taking me to visit Faslane and fun times at his quarters in Rhu. Died much too young and missed
Respect.🙏
Condolences, Haggis. Anyone making it to submarine command is necessarily exceptional.
Rim wood?
@@mattgrant9479 Ha! Somewhat unfortunate! :)
This was phenomenal to watch. It's so weird - for a lad like myself - to see what the culture was like back in the 80s. Smoking on a submarine, Queen's English speech etc.
Its almost like a time when the world wasn't INSANE !
Kinda like when things were normal
@@Anglo_Saxon1smoking on a submarine is NOT normal
@bonglord9843 Is was obviously 'normal' to those lads back then in the 80's, or they wouldn't be doing it.
@@bonglord9843with a name such as yours, pointing out what is and what isn't "normal"; I'm amazed you know what day of the week it is, mr bong man. Smoking was everywhere as a child in early 90's i still remember ashtrays in shopping centres, plane seat arm rests. 😂
I love how much of a people person the teacher actually was. Of course he had to be brutally strict and objective but you see how he felt for the failures and how delighted he was for the successes. What a fantastic teacher, so many could learn from him !
I was watching this and I was nervous 😂
He is special for sure
'I love how much of a people person the teacher actually was.' - What a decent man he was, combined with obvious efficiency.
@Noel Coward is that a criticism ..?
@Noel Coward phew. I see so much public school bashing. If he was the product of a public school education, and he went in to instruct future submarine commanders then so be it, a glowing endorsement for public schools !
@@DAllan-lz3lg Maybe the public schools system, as it was in the. U.S. back when he was attending, could be highly regarded. As I saw it, they could be on parity with private and parochial schools. Witin the last 25 to 30 years, U.S. schools have moved from strong academics abd teaching critical thinking skills to wokeism, transgender affirming, classes of sexual habits and self stimulation to children of ages as early as 5 and 6 years of age. The teachers, teachers union are pushing crt, activism and protesting. Math, language and sciences are being discouraged.by the same forces mentioned above, as being courses of the oppressors. The current administration is sanctioning it all and will only fund public schools to teach all this stuff from Green New Deal funding. I am a 74 year old retired vet and I and many others see the difference in what is going on not only in public schools, but charter schools, private schools and parochial schools. My apologies for going on so much but it is happening.
The two captains who made it through were the unnoticed ones in the program. Quite fitting that, in the end.
Oh to have half the talent of the alleged “failures“! I had the pleasure to work for a graduate of one of these courses and he was by far the best ops director I ever worked for.
The Navy tended to produce great people.
I sailed with CDR Evans, a very clever commander, and very hard to please. He was known as "Dasher Dia" and always went max speed everywhere.
I worked with a guy at the Post Office in the late Eighties who was the Sonar Operator on this programme. Plus , by coincidence another guy was in one of the frigates hunting above!!
Thanks for putting this out there. I grew up watching similar programs in the USA when I was growing up, and modern media is utter trash in comparison.
That one strand of hair he's combed over really fooled me into thinking he wasn't bald.
The cunning of a sub commander!
That comes through years of submarine training and the art of being covert. Respect.
That was his proximity sensor for overhead obstacles.😑
He's related to Bobby Charlton
YOU'VE BEEN WAITING AGES TO MAKE THAT COMMENT...WELL DONE INDEED...@@amazer747
By the look of Cmdr Evan’s hair, he doesn’t seem like a man that ever gives up
Served under dai Evans on renown as his cpo ops sonar, grand fellow total respect.
RIP Teacher,Dai Evans
Massive respect for all those who have taken perisher succeed or fail. Makes me realise how competent sub commanders are if they can pass this.
4:12 David Lister! 😂 Mind you, this 1985 program predates Red Dwarf by 3 years.
And he's nicknamed Tiny Lister, there was an American actor called Tiny Lister who was in films like The Fifth Element.
For the historical record, the painting of the sub in the Perisher bar was done by a Commando D day veteran who fought at Ouistreham called Charles Forrest; A lovely gentleman who had with him at the time a wolf called Magnet.
belesariius "..."..the painting of the sub in the Perisher bar..... who fought at Ouistreham called Charles Forrest;." 👍🏼 A very fascinating tease, having you wanting more, that would be found on the inside cover of a biographical story.
Thank you for posting that info.
Most welcome :)
Nice seeing the RMAS vessels in the yellow/black colour. I worked at BUTEC in the mid-90s and was lucky enough to sail out to the weapons range on a few occasions to collect folk from submarines who were coming to the mainland for a run ashore. Got to sail up to Rona a few times too and was always happy to see puffins land on the deck!
Ten years in at the minimum - most of them aged 30 at least. They will all be 70 or more now. Odd to think about it.
Gosh -- in current day, they would pass as in their 40s or 50s.
@@arilebonthey do look old compared to modern 40yo
I've been on Hms Ocelot at Chatham. Same class as oracle. Extremely cramped. Great respect for any who spent time serving on diesel electrics.
The 'Sardine's Revenge'!
I was on it last week. Found this video after going on it.
These Men are the Cream of the crop. I would imagine that competition just to get on the course would be fierce.
There was rehash of this done in 2011 called submarine school about the perisher course also on YT. It’s interesting to compare both documentaries
The intro music is pure analog Heaven, and so brilliantly married to the video.
Sounds like a Yamaha CS80 a la Vangelis
Badass documentary of a badass PCO course. You Poms did it right.
Well I'm sure we are delighted about gaining your approval.
I think the reason for the abundance of smokers was the cigarettes were free.
You had a weekly or monthly allocation of Blue Liner cigarettes which we
called 'cancer sticks'. I used to save them up and give to my dad and
auntie.
I had the pleasure of knowing Commander Evans, a true gentleman and very impressive human being !
What a great training officer - Kudos....had many like him and yes - it's really tough - but boy does it carry through - The Royal Navy should be proud....as I am sure they are. Well done all.
I couldn't finish watching this. I felt too tense and anxious...that's just viewing the vid! I can't imagine the feeling of actually being there!
Really enjoyed watching this when it first came out. I love watching anything on our Armed Forces, be it training or actual battle experience.
Thoroughly enjoyed this. Thank you much. Quality viewing.
While at the Centre for Defence Studies at Aberdeen University in the 1980s, we went on a field trip to Ardrossan. Spent the day on HMS Fife charging around off Arran as part of the Perisher course.
This is a true British documentary not like now a days sadly. huge respect to them officers involved 😊
Knowing what one CANNOT do is just as important as knowing what one CAN do.
Like every other human on this planet, I have several deficits in my abilities... I'm a good assistant but a lousy leader, for example. The danger of being pushed to your limits is that sometimes you find out your limits are much farther down the scale than you thought. But if you can accept your limitations and come to terms with them, you'll often find that it makes you far more effective at the things you're good at.
I am an US Navy sailor from the 60's, we did'nt have missiles, only guns, just depth charges, AS Rocket Depth charges, torpedoes. We were flanked and hounded by Soviet Destroyers during that time...we had 5 inch and 3 " guns so it would have been interesting in a conlflict. times have changed. We had decent sonar, less than adequate analog Fire Control computers, etc.
The quick cigarette break: Love it! So appropriate in times of stress and relaxation. A Miltary tradition of maintaining concentration and comradeship. Eroded over time. M.O.D. No longer allow smoking on/in all bases/ ships etc, NO WONDER morale is low!!!
I did several perishers as crew and it was the only time I really felt sorry for officers, they all desperately wanted to do well and you could see the mind turning to custard as the pressure came on. I think it fair to say that it achieved its aim as in most cases only the best got through, one in particular that made it and shouldn't have will remain nameless but anyone on the Sealion when she left Rosyth after refit will know who I mean.
I used to be panel watch keeper on Sealion , saw some of these officers and remember " Teacher".
I did several perisher as crew (WT Shack). Also did a couple with Dai Evans (RIP) as Teacher, met him initially when he was Cdr CSST during a work up. Met him again after leaving, he was running command and control courses for the Oil&Gas industry at RGiT at Montrose.
My dad was an engineer on the Sealion , he did 2 draftings and a refit on it . Happy memories, I remember it doing a refit in Portsmouth around 1982 . I’d sometimes go to work with him during half terms etc. Happy memories.
I was very fortunate as a snottie to spend about 6 weeks in Sealion, as part of my basic officer training. Joined her at Chatham, ended up going down to the Med., left her in Gib. Happy days, loved it! They had no bunk for me so I was on a camp bed down in the torpedo space, Mk 9 on one side and a Mk 8 the other. Just two stories:
- heading SW and out of the Channel, lovely sunny day, flat calm, thick sea fog blanking out everything to about 30' above us, I was 2nd OOW, when we were assailed by a massive 'BANG'. Utterly astonishing, just out of nowhere, nothing in sight (not that we could see that far). Then the OOW looked up and pointed. High above us and over to the West, there was Concorde racing across the sky. We'd been caught in the sonic boom.
- arriving at Gib., we had to practise towing, or rather, being towed. We had stopped, and the picket boat was being driven by a RAN lieutenant who must have been a bit green, just could not manouevre it alongside. After numerous to-ings and fro-ings, our captain, who was a young two and a half and a top bloke, got totally fed up and said, 'Suggest you heave to, and we'll come alongside you ...'
Was just so impressed with the people I met: professional, good humoured, just great guys all of them.
Why were you watching them instead of doing your job?
Note wristwatch-wise most officers wore two, a modern quartz and a classic mechanical wristwatch.
Amazing how you could smoke cigarretes on a submarine in those days when air supply was so crucial.
No snowflakes back then.
Air is scrubbed continuously
Thank you for the great upload. This beats Netflix, commercial and cable tv by miles, or kilometers: ). I just subscribed.
Brillant. Large aircraft captain myself. Nothing even close to this. Still, reminds me a lot of my training and mentors.
48:58 when 70 guys light up in a sealed steel tube, and you're the only non smoker 😁
Odd as it may seem now, non-smokers hardly objected in those days. It was so common to be surrounded by smokers that one got used to it. Lighting up now indoors seems to be the equivalent of pulling the pin from a grenade. For the best though, I guess.
A blast from the past, recognise a few faces.
Yes! I remember watching this as a kid (probably in 1983). I still remember Tiny getting angry during one of his attack runs.
Smoking in the submarine. I guess smoking in hospitals were allowed back then, but smoking in subs takes it to another level.
Goddang that trick with noisepads was genius xD
"Lister shouldn't react so strongly" Teacher tells the Engineer he's going to get a boot up the ass! love it!
I was rooting for Tiny Lister Good for him he stayed in the Navy 🔥💯
I wish they had explained why those who fail cannot continue in the previous position. Clearly they were able and competent enough to be selected for the course in the first place.
It's because the 2nd in command role is effectively a training role for those who are then eligible for the Perisher course. If they go back then they block an opportunity for future would-be captains
Brilliant 👍👍✨✨🇬🇧🇬🇧 thank you
This series has become an artefact of the society of the time, in particular the smoking culture, which was still alive and well at all social levels. Then there is the social divide between the officers and their wives (almost all privately educated) and the 'other ranks' and their wives (with 'regional' accents from 'local' schools). In that respect, I don't think the armed forces have changed much, certainly not at the top. When did you last hear a general or an admiral with a Lancashire accent?
Didn’t escape my notice how plummy they were. I’m sure many others would have been just as qualified, if only they had the right accent/breeding.
thanks for the upload
When I watch this and see how much pressure they are under and the level they have to perform I think about an average day at my work and laugh at how pathetic I am when the phone rings because someone wants a bit of information in a few days.
Do you have a first rate world class well trained team around you providing you with minute to minute accurate data? You're probably right to be stressed at your work.
@@nigelbenn4642 A good point.
Fantastic tv, very interesting 👍
Failing is only not attempting something, not reaching for a goal, we’re all humans, some good at this, some at that, but if you never try, that’s the only time you’ll fail
I'd skip that job but huge respect to those that do it . 👏
When the BBC used to be entertaining and less obviously biased. Totally different outlook and ideology at the BBC nowadays.
Worth the licence in those days. Not so now - ditched mine a few years ago and don't miss the BBC at all.
A clip from this was shown in the Discovery Channel's "Submarines: Sharks of Steel."
On the edge of my seat!
That combover though...
Comb overs are legendary.
Ha Ha Ha. My thoughts exactly 😀😀😀👍👍🇬🇧.
It's part of being covert. Will be turfed out of the service otherwise.
Heavy price to pay for failure...never going to sea again in a sub, must be tough if you love the life but fail the course.
Why can’t they remain in their previous role?
@@natashanicole7408 If they remain in their previous role, they block the job from being used to train the next generation who have to gain the experience necessary to qualify for the Perisher course.
There may not be anyone standing behind you saying 'you didn't do that very well', but there may well be 50+people thinking it!
@Pete Muller 2434!! Wow, if you don't mind me asking, what year was that?
@Pete Muller Later than I expected!! I joined in 1995, can't remember what month......There's been a lot of alcohol consumed since then LOL, must have been about November at a guess, because I remember Salisbury Plain being absolutely freezing during basic training.
@Pete Muller I've not heard anything about reissue of numbers, but I suppose if they are sticking with the 8 figures they'd have to at some point.
Nice to see a 21 in action.
The Dreaded "Sine Wave" Of Performance in any aspect of our lives. Fear Of Failure ?
I have watched this series before and it is really very interesting and entertaining, and without any spoilers I have to say I felt sorry for the “perishes”, even knowing that the perishes are trying to become the “best of the best” and failure is basically the end of their carrier and possibly their service, teach has to be ruthless as if he passes a candidate and it leads to a failure of command on active service it isn’t like a job where you get a second chance, it could easily lead to injuries, deaths, and the complete loss of a hugely expensive boat and entire crew. I don’t like his attitude but realise it has to be the way it is.
From a civilians point of view it must be absolutely gut wrenching to have failed the course. I understand the reasons why, but still. But also, being the officer assessing the prospective captains must be an awful job to tell someone who's worked their way up the chain for 10+ years to tell them them they haven't made the cut and essentially ended their career in the submarine service.
An utterly brutal process. I hope they've managed to find a career elsewhere and managed to make a success of it.
This BBC documentary was produced in 1985, at a time when the Royal Navy still had the Oberon-class diesel-electric submarines in operational service. The normal/diesel-electric submarine Perisher course is now conducted by the Royal Netherlands Navy after the Royal Navy transitioned to a fully nuclear submarine fleet in 1994.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Command_Course
thanks for providing the exact year. I was going to research that but decided to read the comments in case someone had already determined that.
Bad day at the office, bloody hell, respect
2:22 in addition to comb-over…so this is a test on whether they know how to use a periscope?
superb soundtrack :)
Mclarrens brain is that big his skull has actually had to enlarge to accommodate it! He’s like something from pinky and the brain. Super smart guy. Unfortunate forehead.
49:11 what ! a ciggie break inside the sub !! I bet thats not allowed today !
The narrator sounds like the bloke who starred in Bergerac.
Yeah, because it is him 😂
Much respect to all who give all
I miss that navy.
Bloody well done
The Red haired chap took a very brave decision to admit he wasn't good enough.
Agree, awsome chap
Its the hardest test in any force. Only the best pass.
This is why the Brits are the best in the world at submarining.
Other nations submariners do this course and excel…
@@stephenpage-murray7226 Do this course ?
@@loyalist5736
RAN, U.S, South Korea
@@stephenpage-murray7226 They don't do this course.
@@loyalist5736
They do. I personally know one who did and if you watch the multiple videos there are non RN sailors. What part of that don’t you understand?
I am amazed that they alorwed smoking up until the 1980s.
I'm amazed you let that gross error of spelling sit there for over a year, but then it's an amazing world.
Ratings were still issued cigarettes or tobacco as part of their pay until 1991
I wonder if that old boat was any good? Oberon Class? First I ever heard of them.
They were some of the quietest boats ever made and excelled at special operations
@jfprieur I did a bit of research. Some of those boats did some cool things. I'm sure many more things that are classified top secret to this day.
Comb overs and sideburns - happy days
is smoking banned in subs now ?
A good question, I don’t actually know, but I hope not, a good friend of mine has just re-enlisted in the submarine service and he is a heavy smoker, I believe that the law surrounding smoking allows for it to happen, just like it is in prisons, oil rigs, and I believe hotels are able to designate rooms as either smoking or non smoking but on that one I could be wrong. I think my friend would be able to manage though as he was serving when the law was first introduced, but we will sea.
Can anyone explain to me why, having failed the Perisher, the men are suddenly cast out of the submarine service, never to put to see in a sub again? Surely they would still have been useful as officers at their previous posts, at least for a few years. I'm not especially well versed in the ways of the senior service, but I'm assuming that a great deal of time, effort and treasure was used in training them up to the level they had reached prior to taking the captain's course? Isn't banishing them to some other post rather a waste of all that?
I presume that there is some kind of reasoning behind such a policy, I just can't fathom what it might be.
Also very curious about this
From what i understand, having learned submarine tactics but being unable to captain a boat, the sailers who fail out are fantastic candidates for positions that involve hunting submarines.
It’s a simple test to weed out the officers who aren’t fully appreciative of the high stakes that submarine command is. By virtue of accepting a place on perisher, knowing full well their future career in submarines is on the line, you know these officers are deadly serious and will put everything on the line to succeed. That’s the kind of mentality you need of your future commanders.
better to make the mistake on the course than get 120 men killed in action needlessly thats why you only get one chance in boats
I remember watching this when it first came out - just as I had joined the Police and was going through some fairly intensive training myself at RAF Dishforth in Yorkshire. It was brutal in the beginning up at 5.30 drilling and we lost several people on the Police course - this is on a whole other level and if you don't hit the mark you shouldn't be doing the job.
My major achievement 2 years in and after 4 months of intensive training was the Police advanced driving / armed response / dip protection course - I passed 1/1 and was driving a V8 3500 Rover Vitesse on the M1 at 160 mph+ at 23 years old, including shouts concerning the IRA who were active at the time. We had SAS (sneaky beaky) train us for the final two weeks - all very exciting - but not for the faint hearted using the vehicle as an offensive weapon at high speeds.
And civvies outside the job had no idea what we were training for or the level, not even my own family... we ran two fully armed cars every shift, tooled up and ready to react, first response to any firearms or terrorist action.
What submarine was this ?
Was this used as training for the ASW ships as well? Seems like a good idea to me. Potential frigate captains etc...
Served with dai Evans st 132 and as cpo(ops sonar,) renown port 80-82
4:12 well let's hope this isn't the real Dave Lister or his Sub will be flying through space without a crew!
Hard to belivean experienced commander would screw up an attack that bad.
Why is the periscope constantly going up and down why not just leave it up
Because the ships being attacked would see them and know where exactly the attacker is!!
Is the characteristic smell of a sub still laced with tobacco smoke these days?
Great documentary. I’m not from a military background. Could any more knowledgeable folks answer a question? If they fail the course why are they never allowed back on a submarine? Why can’t they just go back to their previous position? I don’t think they explained it in the programme. Unless I missed it.
If they stayed on subs it’s blocks jobs for the next intake of perishers, it also helps the surface navy because those thatve failed the course know how subs and the tactics works and transfer those skills into hunting subs
Understood, good points 👍👍
That Submarine makes a huge wake when surfaced. Does that transfer to an equally large passive sonar signature when its submerged?
Depends on the target, whether it is conventional or nuclear. Conventional almost no passive signature at slow speed, nukes a little noisier but not much. In short the passive signature is minimal and at these close quarters you wouldn't be relying on passive sonar in the surface ship, you'd be using active.... if you knew the sub was in the vicinity.
@@paulwood5803 ,. Ive heard that Passive Sonar can pick up the cavitation from a propeller, or even a bad bearing in an oxygen generator, or worn brushes in an electrical generator.
I must ask what is your qualification for such an answer?
Looking at your profile all I see is a troll.
@@unitedwestand5100 10 years as an ASW Officer in the RN and one time lead instructor for the Force ASW Adqual course which was the pinnacle of RN ASW attended by Admirals downwards. Below about 6 knots submarine propellors do not cavitate, most machinery if not all is accoustically insulated from the submarine hull so external sound transmission at a detectable level is virtually nil. If you go back into the 1970's Russian submarines were as noisy as a bucket of bolts being rattled and we could track their 50Hz electrical lines, conditions permitting, at hundreds of miles on passive sonar. Don't forget also that above about 6-8 knots the flow noise on a passive sonar array makes them virtually deaf and useless for detection. Plus any meaningful targetting of subs using passive sonar takes hours as you don't get range from passive sonar only a bearing and bearing accuracy varies according to the relative bearing of the target to the array.
@@paulwood5803 ,. I just watched a documentary about the US Virginia class, and their warning system informed their engineers they had a excessive passive sonar signature from a generator.
They switched over to another one and the noise went away.
The Ship engineers determined the noise was in the commutator. When they broke it down they found the problem was the brushes.
The engineer worked 12 straight hours on it.
Also, the US, after the Swedish sub incident , installed a shield around the propellers on our subs to eliminate cavitation. They determined even at slow speeds that the cavitation was detectable by passive sonar.
Dont get me wrong, but the RN has a lot it could learn from the USN.
@@unitedwestand5100 No thanks :)