Speaking as an atheist...that's a really, really reductive way of phrasing it. The Book of Job is dead simple in premise, the reason why it's written. It's essentially a long study on the most fundamental question in any religion that concerns itself with morality: "why do bad things happen to good people?" The thing is that there _are_ no good answers to this question. There can't be and there never will be. And even 3,000 years ago the Jews in the Kingdom of Israel had figured that out. Yes we can say that, specifically in Job's case, bad things are happening to Job because God is making them happen. But he's making them happen because Satan (the Jewish version, who is not an enemy of God, but more like his prosecution lawyer; _ha-satan_ literally translates to "the adversary" but he's the adversary of Man, not God) points out to God in the beginning of the Book of Job that, yeah, Job is his most faithful and wonderful follower on Earth, but it's probably only because Job has been given so many gifts by God. If God stops being nice to Job, then Job will lose faith, Satan basically making the argument that human faith is fragile and lasts only as long as they benefit from it. God is demonstrating to Satan that this isn't the case, that in spite of everything that will happen to Job, Job will retain his faith. (Even when Job asks God "why are you doing this to me", he hasn't lost faith in God. He just wants to know the answer). When God starts listing out all the things he has done and can do, he's not saying, "I'm stronger therefore I'm right". He's pointing out that as God he has a _vastly_ larger perspective of the universe than Job can ever have. Job literally cannot comprehend why God does the things he does, any more than, say, an ant could understand why a human does what humans do. Imagine how many ant hills are destroyed whenever humans build an animal shelter, for example. You and me, we know that animal shelters are good. The ant just knows that its home is gone, every ant it ever knew is dead, and she probably can't comprehend how that could ever be good. So. That's what the Book of Job is: an attempt by bronze-age Israelites to explain the question of evil.
@@RogueShadows i always thought, if bad things wouldnt happen then we wouldnt be as we are. In a "perfect universe" we would just lay down and fryed chicken would fly into our mouths- noone would invent, ask why the world is as it is or dream of a better one. As sad as it may sound, but we may not be possible in any other version of the universe than our own.
@@RogueShadows I thought I had answered this; sorry. I guess I was not thinking of God, but assigning the concept to humans who assume the prerogative of not being questioned (nor possibly even doubted) because they are in a position of higher authority.
I feel like in this scene it seems like god might genuinely be asking job those questions. Would be very interesting if the reason gods plan is so hard to understand is cause god’s literally gone mad.
I think most view God asking people questions as bad, but asking questions opens your mind for understanding. We automatically see God as angry when He asks us a question, but what if He just wants us to meditate and figure it out? Most of God's questions have you step out of everything you know to think
Personally, I reckon - no matter what kind of entity you are, or what kind of intent behind the question, if you wreck someone's life and traumatise them, and then expect them to figure out the answer to why you just did that for themselves, you don't really have much claim to the intellectual or moral high ground. And besides which, why should a being who's willing to act that way be regarded as superior to any other being who knowingly harms others, no matter what Lesson they are trying to impart through the harm?
Uh, I feel for Crowley here 💔😢. After or while the starbirth or starfertilisation he did in heaven (sorry, I can't remember the technical term at the moment) he started questioning things. Maybe before, but definitely at that moment. And now he watches Job who has the ability or right to ask questions... I don't know how to describe Crowleys face when watching God and Job, it does not seem to be jealousy. Is he astonished? Yearning or desperate? He is certainly not transfigured as Azi. Given his response to what he sees ("Just to be able to ask questions"), I just now realised he never got to ASK questions. He fell and didn't even get to ask questions. And he watches Job not only asking, but later beeing rewarded. And Crowley EVEN HELPED Job not to fall in desperation like himself. He saved his kids. I so feel for him 😢. Maybe he kind of wanted to treat himself by helping Job save the kids or demonstrate Azi things with doing what he did, but that was very kind and bighearted of him nontheless. It is so sad. He was a maker, did technical craftmanship. Azi was also involved in preparing human birth. But Crowley was the one that made mankind happen after Adam and Eve. But he still fell. And later on Crowley the "maker" wants to flee from earth and Azi wants to save it. That is some black humour. If he never fell I would have expected Crowley to save it with his Spirit of accomplishing and Azi just to watch the destruction because that is just what is planned. I am not complaining, just deeply feeling for Crowley who has such backbone with the Jobfamily despite the misery he must be in 😢. There is still more to think about that whole Jobstuff...
@@theresa5114 I'm not sure if I agree with you that Aziraphale would have just watched the destruction and gone along with the plan - he gave away the flaming sword, against what he knew of the plan, to protect Adam and Eve (and then lied to god about it!). And I don't think that comes of listening to Crowley in the nebula, I think that was him acting on some slightly panicked instinct of his own to do something he thought might be good, as opposed to doing something which he thought might be planned. I think even him warning Crowley about getting into trouble, in the nebula, shows the same instinct: a care for *people*, human or angel, and a wish to keep them safe from harm.
@@AMinibot Aaaargh 😩 , I wanted to answer three times, but it was always blown away somehow. So sorry for some bad grammar and I try to make it short (not possible). First of all: Thank you a lot for your thoughts 🙂. I was searching too much for tessellations or mirrors and forgot the person Azi meanwhile. I do think he has a big soft heart and is really good, not just pretending good. I mean, I love him as much as Crowley ❤. Though I sometimes think he lets himself be overshadowed by his obsession or love for God and "the good". I do not know if one can override his own morale or heart when he values another entity or other rules higher than oneself? Well, when I try to imagine him abandoning mankind, it does not work (he can be insecure when facing the fate of one person versus all the rest. But that is another question). That scene with the starcrafting: In my opinion he was too much involved with love at first sight to think about anything else but Crowley. (That gaze when he was holding the paper and did not know what to do was a bit too long - but I liked that flush of time 😘. Guess he was too distracted with staring 🤩.With all the other gazes, happy face and inventing of flirting, I can not believe the in some ways introverted Azi would behave like this if he was not totally smitten. I may be wrong, but I think he wanted wholeheartedly for Crowley to not be in trouble. Maybe he was far-sighted and had mankind in mind, too - but I like my version better 😁.
"Don't question me unless you are as powerful as me." Most damaging concept that ever came into the human mind.
Speaking as an atheist...that's a really, really reductive way of phrasing it.
The Book of Job is dead simple in premise, the reason why it's written. It's essentially a long study on the most fundamental question in any religion that concerns itself with morality: "why do bad things happen to good people?" The thing is that there _are_ no good answers to this question. There can't be and there never will be. And even 3,000 years ago the Jews in the Kingdom of Israel had figured that out.
Yes we can say that, specifically in Job's case, bad things are happening to Job because God is making them happen. But he's making them happen because Satan (the Jewish version, who is not an enemy of God, but more like his prosecution lawyer; _ha-satan_ literally translates to "the adversary" but he's the adversary of Man, not God) points out to God in the beginning of the Book of Job that, yeah, Job is his most faithful and wonderful follower on Earth, but it's probably only because Job has been given so many gifts by God. If God stops being nice to Job, then Job will lose faith, Satan basically making the argument that human faith is fragile and lasts only as long as they benefit from it. God is demonstrating to Satan that this isn't the case, that in spite of everything that will happen to Job, Job will retain his faith.
(Even when Job asks God "why are you doing this to me", he hasn't lost faith in God. He just wants to know the answer).
When God starts listing out all the things he has done and can do, he's not saying, "I'm stronger therefore I'm right". He's pointing out that as God he has a _vastly_ larger perspective of the universe than Job can ever have. Job literally cannot comprehend why God does the things he does, any more than, say, an ant could understand why a human does what humans do. Imagine how many ant hills are destroyed whenever humans build an animal shelter, for example. You and me, we know that animal shelters are good. The ant just knows that its home is gone, every ant it ever knew is dead, and she probably can't comprehend how that could ever be good.
So. That's what the Book of Job is: an attempt by bronze-age Israelites to explain the question of evil.
@@RogueShadows "why do bad things happen to good people?"
"git gud you little punk ass bitch"
@@RogueShadows i always thought, if bad things wouldnt happen then we wouldnt be as we are. In a "perfect universe" we would just lay down and fryed chicken would fly into our mouths- noone would invent, ask why the world is as it is or dream of a better one. As sad as it may sound, but we may not be possible in any other version of the universe than our own.
@@RogueShadows I thought I had answered this; sorry. I guess I was not thinking of God, but assigning the concept to humans who assume the prerogative of not being questioned (nor possibly even doubted) because they are in a position of higher authority.
I feel like in this scene it seems like god might genuinely be asking job those questions. Would be very interesting if the reason gods plan is so hard to understand is cause god’s literally gone mad.
That would explain a lot of things…….Too well
“God’s! Of course!” He’s so cutely childlike in his blind loyalty.
Job:”Why God? Why would you allow this? What have I done?”
God proceeds to brag and boast about himself while also ridiculed Job
„Did you set the constellations in the sky?“
Uuuhh nope. I think that was Crowley and the other angels 👀
I think most view God asking people questions as bad, but asking questions opens your mind for understanding. We automatically see God as angry when He asks us a question, but what if He just wants us to meditate and figure it out? Most of God's questions have you step out of everything you know to think
Sounds like she's bragging to me.
"Did you do those important things? How dare you expect someone as important as me to care about you?"
Personally, I reckon - no matter what kind of entity you are, or what kind of intent behind the question, if you wreck someone's life and traumatise them, and then expect them to figure out the answer to why you just did that for themselves, you don't really have much claim to the intellectual or moral high ground. And besides which, why should a being who's willing to act that way be regarded as superior to any other being who knowingly harms others, no matter what Lesson they are trying to impart through the harm?
Uh, I feel for Crowley here 💔😢. After or while the starbirth or starfertilisation he did in heaven (sorry, I can't remember the technical term at the moment) he started questioning things. Maybe before, but definitely at that moment. And now he watches Job who has the ability or right to ask questions... I don't know how to describe Crowleys face when watching God and Job, it does not seem to be jealousy. Is he astonished? Yearning or desperate? He is certainly not transfigured as Azi. Given his response to what he sees ("Just to be able to ask questions"), I just now realised he never got to ASK questions. He fell and didn't even get to ask questions. And he watches Job not only asking, but later beeing rewarded. And Crowley EVEN HELPED Job not to fall in desperation like himself. He saved his kids. I so feel for him 😢. Maybe he kind of wanted to treat himself by helping Job save the kids or demonstrate Azi things with doing what he did, but that was very kind and bighearted of him nontheless.
It is so sad. He was a maker, did technical craftmanship. Azi was also involved in preparing human birth. But Crowley was the one that made mankind happen after Adam and Eve. But he still fell. And later on Crowley the "maker" wants to flee from earth and Azi wants to save it. That is some black humour. If he never fell I would have expected Crowley to save it with his Spirit of accomplishing and Azi just to watch the destruction because that is just what is planned. I am not complaining, just deeply feeling for Crowley who has such backbone with the Jobfamily despite the misery he must be in 😢.
There is still more to think about that whole Jobstuff...
@@theresa5114 I'm not sure if I agree with you that Aziraphale would have just watched the destruction and gone along with the plan - he gave away the flaming sword, against what he knew of the plan, to protect Adam and Eve (and then lied to god about it!). And I don't think that comes of listening to Crowley in the nebula, I think that was him acting on some slightly panicked instinct of his own to do something he thought might be good, as opposed to doing something which he thought might be planned.
I think even him warning Crowley about getting into trouble, in the nebula, shows the same instinct: a care for *people*, human or angel, and a wish to keep them safe from harm.
@@AMinibot
Aaaargh 😩 , I wanted to answer three times, but it was always blown away somehow. So sorry for some bad grammar and I try to make it short (not possible). First of all: Thank you a lot for your thoughts 🙂. I was searching too much for tessellations or mirrors and forgot the person Azi meanwhile. I do think he has a big soft heart and is really good, not just pretending good. I mean, I love him as much as Crowley ❤. Though I sometimes think he lets himself be overshadowed by his obsession or love for God and "the good". I do not know if one can override his own morale or heart when he values another entity or other rules higher than oneself? Well, when I try to imagine him abandoning mankind, it does not work (he can be insecure when facing the fate of one person versus all the rest. But that is another question).
That scene with the starcrafting: In my opinion he was too much involved with love at first sight to think about anything else but Crowley. (That gaze when he was holding the paper and did not know what to do was a bit too long - but I liked that flush of time 😘. Guess he was too distracted with staring 🤩.With all the other gazes, happy face and inventing of flirting, I can not believe the in some ways introverted Azi would behave like this if he was not totally smitten. I may be wrong, but I think he wanted wholeheartedly for Crowley to not be in trouble. Maybe he was far-sighted and had mankind in mind, too - but I like my version better 😁.
honestly, this feels like God just wants feedback on how they made everything