Repertoire: The BEST Bartók Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- There's more to this work than the background music in The Shining. In fact, the entire piece is one of the great masterpieces of twentieth-century instrumental music, and we are going to discover its finest recordings.
Love the reiner and never noticed the tape glitch
Thanks for the great review, Dave. Stanley Kubrick chose Karajan’s to include in The Shining, btw. Anyone who knows a bit about Kubrick will know that he probably obsessively auditioned dozens of recordings before settling on that one. I have a Deutsche Grammophon LP of that Karajan performance, and there is an actual sticker on it advertising it as being part of the Shining Soundtrack. This was, of course, when classical labels no longer found it embarrassing to be associated with Kubrick-no more of UK Decca’s “2001: A Space Odyssey” debacle.
Growing up, nobody in my family was into classical music. Consequently, when I was in college I thought it was boring. My college girlfriend's family, however, was into classical. And she force-fed me some music. The first piece she gave me that I enjoyed was a Mozart Divertimenti.
After college I began to explore classical a little bit. This was in the late '80s, when music was still sold in music stores on cassette. I began a practice of walking into a music store and LITERALLY randomly selecting a cassette, buying it, and listening. The first cassette I bought had a combination of Holst's "The Planets" and Ravel's "Bolero". It was a great choice, and I loved both works.
The second time I randomly selected a cassette it was Reiner's "Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta". And hearing that work for the first time was like hearing Elvis for the first time as a first-grader in the early '70s. I was shocked, and thought, "Wow! Classical music can sound like THIS?"
I now feel that this piece can be a gateway drug if you're trying to entice someone else, and introduce them to classical music.
My short list for classical gateway drugs:
- Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta (Reiner's recording)
- Cello Sonata Opus 6 (Barber - Ralph Kirshbaum's '89 recording)
- Bachianas Brasilieros No. 5 (Bernstein's recording with Natania Dvrath)
- Bach Cello Suites (either Rostropovich's '91 recording, or Mainardi's '55 recording. Both very different, but both excellent)
- Fanfare for the Common Man (Copland)
check out Shostakovich's two cello concertos, if you haven't already
Also: Reiner's Alexander Nevsky & Saint-Saëns Organ Symphony (3rd)
I remember one day when I was listening to the fugue (maybe I was 13? 14? Dunno.) and I suddenly realized how beautiful that kind-of-atonal interweaving of the melodic lines could be. It was the first time I felt completely enthralled by the unique expressiveness of this piece and, at the same time, by the beauty of counterpoint per se. I was (still am) a harmony freak, but that moment showed me a world of significance beyond any possible prioritization of musical elements. The best Bartók really is the meeting point of the contrapuntal rigour of Bach, the assertiveness of Beethoven and the finely colored world of Debussy, all dealt with in such a way that the music just gets in and lets itself grow on us. The word "masterwork" is for these moments. Thank you for bringing them here!
Well said!
If I could keep only one work. So long Beethoven, Bruckner, Zemlinsky. This work by Bartok would be my choice. That has not changed for me for 35 years
A favorite piece, of which I have many recordings that I mercifully won’t list.
I LOVE THIS! My favorite piece of all 20th century, and my favorite piece from my most beloved composer. I have that Fischer/Budapest/Kocsis boxed set of the piano concertos et al. It's abolutely AMAZING and I doubt there could be anyone not getting totally hooked on Bartók's world after listening to that. Glad to see it mentioned and so warmly recommended here! There were a couple of surprises among your other elected recordings, I wil surely check them out!
Wonderful comments on a wonderful piece. I discovered it when reading a novel, "City of Night", in which a character finds an LP and plays it over and over (as I remember it). You characterize Bartók's music very well
Great coverage. I first heard his music in the BBC Out of the Unknown Sci Fi series of the 1970s. I loved it ever since. I've never been at a live performance. I alway try to be in the front row for anything - the audience is behind me that way. They really bolster applause springing up from an otherwise silent hall, at the BBC Proms. That is the best way to hear anything, with a silent but massive audience.
I came across the piece via a coupling with Bartok's CFO (Dutoit MSO) . CFO finished and I just kept listening. The fugue was wonderfully creepy but when the double basses and cellos start playing at bars 38-39 without mutes and the dark viola counter theme comes over the top of it , oh man, where had this piece been all my life.
The Chicago/Kubelik recording from 1951 is another great one.
I agree, but I wanted to stick to stereo because of the disposition of forces. Both Kubelik and Friscay are terrific if you don't mind mono sonics.
Thank you for singling out the Dohnányi performance, it's truly outstanding. I was able to get a copy several years ago at, of all places, the Cleveland Orchestra's store at Severance Hall.
Excellent choices, i am glad to have this Ivan Fischer/ eloquence cd in my collection, coupled with the equally fine concerto for orchestra by Dorati..you are right, there are so many pieces one can easily dismiss on first hearing but later on they grow and grow on you..
Thank you. I'm glad you got that disc. I thought I was the only one on earth...
I just found the Dohnanyi/CO and it cost neither an arm or a leg! Thank you! I love this piece, for me it holds up longer over the long haul than even the Concerto for Orchestra. Endlessly fascinating and haunting and enriching.
Wonderful performance and recording as it turns out and the discmates, Martinu and Janacek make for a stellar CD.
Beautiful job David
I have the superb Reiner (amongst others) on a variety of recordings, including SACDs, and have never noticed the drop-out you mentioned so I probably need to play one (or perhaps more than one) again and listen intently to the first movement. As a work it is surely one of the 20th--century supreme masterpieces.
Love this music!
Dear Dave (if I may): great comment and VERY illuminating! I keep golden memories from a live version given by the Ferenc Liszt Chamber orchestra under Janos Rolla in Budapest in 1992 and the fugue sounded just sinister. Of course I have most of your recommendations including the three Karajan recordings (the first from 1949 with the Philharmonia), the Reiner and the Marriner. Also Kubelik/Chicago from 1951 and Dorati/LSO in Mercury from 1960. I realise that many of my recordings come from older times (and do not regret it very much) but of course there will be good ones emerging in any time. May suggest you to consider the (in my view) magnificent version from Ferenc Fricsay and RIAS SO from 1953 in DGG? It is in impressively good mono sound and, as an interpretation seems second to none, although if forced to choose only one I would opt for Reiner Frigyes! And may also suggest a video on Hungarian conductors? Hungary seems to have contributed more than any other culture to the development of orchestras in the US. I lived in Budapest for three years and there were at the time (1990-1993) more - domestic - symphonic concerts in Budapest than in New York, including those by three major orchestras: the National, the Festival and the Magyar Radio. The national Railways and the Post had their own orchestras too! By the way, the von Dohnanyi/Cleveland is available in Apple Music. Greetings from cold Santiago!
Great talk, as usual! This is one of my all-time favorite works as well. I own and love the Reiner recording, but I'm eager to check out your other recommendations.
Markevitch could win your exquisite ears to Apollon Musagete, as could Mravinsky. The Marriner is fabulous and the recording superb. Otto Klemperer encouraged Marriner to be a conductor. He knew.
I bought all Hungaroton's Bartók New Series released album. Very, very unfortunate that it remained unfinished. There were problems from the beginning, started with dispute between Kocsis and Fischer about which recordings needed to put into the series. Kocsis won and he made new recordings. (Except 1-2 older recordings. And the solo piano works licensed from Decca.) I've seen a last private interview with Zoltan Kocsis where he said that the conception of Miraculous Mandarin is already done in his head. He said that they will restore some cuts and they will record it in its glorious original form. What a pity that he died so soon.
As for the Bartók timings. I have a biography about János Ferencsik. He said that when he was young everybody thought that Dance Suite is very difficult work. Ferencsik said that one time when he was already very courage he managed to conduct that suite. He said it to Bartók too. Bartók's short reply was: "If it took more that 15 minutes, it was bad!" I have 6 or 7 Dance Suite recordings. Every one is longer than 15 minutes. :-)
David: thanks for this review. I appreciate your comments on von Dohnanyi. He is a marvelous conductor and needs to be better represented on disc.
I remember hearing it in the concert with Harnoncourt and COE in Graz and as far as I remember they did it in Bartoks suggested seating and the performance was marvelous, although I am not sure it was because of the seating.. The live recording that was made there is also very recommendable in my opinion.
Also wonderful is a live Kubelik on Orfeo.
Nice to see you mentioning the Marriner disc with the ASMF. I bought the Argo LP back in the day and now have the CD reissue. The Divertimento is also a fine performance.
Hello Dave, Her Gilles from France. I think you omitted Fricsay's 1953 recording with the Berlin RIAS
The sound recording is mono but absolutely superb and the 3 works gathered on the CD (with the divertimento and the two portraits) are to be classified, in my opinion, among the very best of the discography
Well corddialically
It was a long time coming, but I found and downloaded the Dohnanyi performance. Really great; better than my other two recordings by Boulez/CSO and Reiner/CSO. The CD of the Dohnanyi is really hard to come by ; last time I checked Amazon it was priced at some ridiculous amount (hundreds of dollars).
To put it in its place, the "The Shining" as a background movie for a performance of MSP&C. Here's Bela!
Great video, agreed with your list here!
What, no Sándor Végh? You, who are such an ardent proponent of this Hungarian. His personal connection to Bartok alone surely deserved a mention. No?
I know and love the Reiner recording, too, and I know just what you mean about the drop in intensity in the first movement. I think it's actually a badly-placed tape splice. Same thing happens in the 3rd movement of his Mahler 4, though it's more of a tempo issue.
It's a tape drop-out--I know that for a fact.
Worth mentioning the Mravinsky 1967 live recording reissued on Praga. Which has even better sound than the 1965 version. And is equally as chilling.
I played the Celeste in this late last year, the second violins hate being so exposed!
Thanks for mentioning the Dohnanyi disc. I see it is available as an Archiv Disc and ordered a copy. The Martinu Concerto for String Quartet is a bonus. I have a thing for string quartet concerti. Thanks for a great video,
I learned a lot!
You're very welcome
Like Mr. Hurwitz, I have for years been bothered by the tape dropout at 4:19 of the first movement on the Redbook CD edition of the Reiner recording. When I happened to see his CT review of the SACD edition last month, I was overjoyed to read this: "… the hideous dropout at the climax of the first movement of Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta, present on all previous issues, has been repaired." When I purchased the SACD, however, my joy evaporated. The dropout is still there, as plain as ever, the only difference being that the dropout's time stamp on the SACD is 4:21. (Incidentally, the dropout is present on both the stereo and surround layers.) Is it possible that Mr. Hurwitz and I have SACDs produced from different master tapes? If such is the case, perhaps he can get some relevant information from his industry sources.
Interestingly, it is the Cleveland/Dohnanyi recording used throughout the movie “Being John Malkovich”
Hello David. I am a new subscriber. I love Bartok's music, having studied with a Bartok student. Thank you for opening up this piece as an avid Bartok listener.
Welcome aboard, and thank you.
@@DavesClassicalGuide ps I listened to the Concerto for Orchestra...the Kubelik/Boston. Gave me goosebumps. He definitely unraveled all the treasures within!
For Bartok, it's rather simple for me: if Zoltan Kocsis recorded it, it's my reference recording. Quite unfortunate he never made the Miraculous Mandarin.
Well, he did the piano duet version of the Miraculous Mandarin with Adrienne Hauser, for what it's worth.
David, the version I first heard was Reiner's, and I have always felt that this was the definitive recording. I just noticed that the Chicago Symphony later recorded two more versions of it, and they pale in comparison --- Reiner's version was so bloody good I don't understand why CSO would re-record it.
Reiner has always been my first choice, but I have Marriner on cassette. Both his and Fischer’s recordings are still available, but I couldn’t find Dohnányi anywhere. He did an absolutely terrific Lutoslawski Concerto for Orchestra with Cleveland (still my favorite of a half-dozen recordings I have). Dohnányi’s Brahms Symphonies are my reference versions and received so little press compared to other, inferior recordings. I don’t understand what they have against him-other than comparing him to Szell, which is shortsighted.
There were just too many recordings of everything coming out and they couldn't figure out how to sell them. His profile was not that of a crowd-pleaser.
David Hurwitz That is true. Guess he wasn’t sexy enough! One of my cherished memories was attending a Chicago Sym concert at Orchestra Hall where Dohnányi conducted Lutoslawski’s Concerto and the Brahms First around 2000 if I remember correctly.
Mm
Does UA-cam index these videos with some automated bot based on sound? It's indicated "Herbert Von Carrion" for one section! Like it!
In college, once gave a talk on this piece.
My favorite version of this piece, as well as of the Concerto for Orchestra is Bernstein's with the New York Philharmonic (Sony). What's your opinion on his reading? Thank you.
MSPC is pretty ragged; the Concerto is excellent!
Sorry to correct but the Bartok accompanies the scene where Danny is riding around the hallways on his BigWheel. The blood coming out of the elevator was tracked with both Wendy Carlos’ electronic score and at other times, Penderecki.
I stand corrected! Thanks.
@@DavesClassicalGuide no worries! Thanks for the great reviews and recommendations! I’ve discovered a lot of great recordings thanks to your channel
Would it have been possible to digitally clone a fill-in for the slight tape dropout at the end of the fugue? I think I’ve probably owned all three of those Living Stereo reissues (plus the vinyl, which is now gone)-the one you show here, plus the remaster and the SACD. I wonder whether someone might have done that along the way. I’ll check whichever copies I still have in house.
Hi Dave
What do you think of James Levine's version with Chicago?
one that I especially like is Ormandy/Philadelphia, maybe because it was the first one I heard. but I don't always like the first performances I hear and this one did!
best regards
Levine is surprisingly uninteresting, in my view.
Has anyone noticed that the first note of the Adagio in Reiner’s recording is missing? (Or is that just an error on streaming platforms?)
If you want to go all in on Bartók, the Decca Complete Works box is one way to get Fischer's Budapest Festival version (it throws in Fricsay's RIAS SO Berlin version as a bonus).
Fun video Dave!
Great choices for the Bartok (as an aside I heard Dohnanyi conduct the Janacek at the RFH - great performance, bloody awful acoustic!). Love to hear your thoughts on Miraculous Mandarin ( I think it's right up there with the Rite of Spring - a masterpiece).
That is is!
I agree...Zoltan Kocsis is extraordinary...another very fine recording is Marin Alsop on Naxos...what do you think instead of Seiji Ozawa and Boston Symphony playing this piece for DG?
Ozawa--first movement too slow. Otherwise, he's fine.
My general rule with Marriner recordings is that anything he recorded for Argo is fresher and more involved than what he did with the other labels.
I agree entirely. The Argo era is indeed a Golden Era! And not only in connection with the ASMF
@@alfredolabbe Yes. The other companies miked them a little more distantly which could make them sound a bit cold and impersonal.
David, I'm surprised Boulez wasn't mentioned! Particularly his first recording (I assume) with the BBC Symphony Orchestra. I usually assume Boulez is a sure bet for music of the 20th Century--to my detriment, possibly.
The BBC recording is sloppy and his remake is just dull. Neither are competitive.
What do you think about the Dutoit with Montreal on Decca?
Not special. It lacks atmosphere and ferocity.
@@DavesClassicalGuide after hearing Dohnanyi and Kocsis and then again Dutoit I can totally comprehend this! :-) Thank you!
What really bugs me about Fritz Reiner's performance is the percussionist during the intro to the 3rd movement. I'm not a musician nor a musicologist, so I'm not sure if I'm using the right terminology, but that passage (the very beginning of the Adagio) is played on most recordings like that: slow... slow... slow..., faster, faster, fast-fast-fast, slower, slower, slow... slow... Meaning the percussionist hits that woodblock (is it a woodblock?) slowly at first, gets faster, goes as fast as he or she can, then slows back down again. In Reiner's case, the percussionist is lazy. Instead of hitting it as fast as he can in the middle part, he starts hitting it with a second stick to make his life easier... Which drives me absolutely crazy!!! So crazy in fact, that I actually no longer want to hear this performance :))) Surely, I exaggerate a bit here. But only a bit :) You as a percussionist, what do you say to this blatant performative laziness? I'm sure you also have little things like this ruin entire recordings for you, right?
It's a xylophone, and the part must always be played with two mallets, and there's a question when the part becomes an unmeasured tremolo as to how fast (how many notes) it should include. The player does not do it wrong. It's also marked "rubato"--that is, with some freedom as to rhythm.
David Hurwitz - thanks for clearing that up. I guess I can relax now :)
Dave:
My girlfriend loves your “Hello!” at the beginning of your videos so much that she’s making it her ringtone. Also, she wants to get me that t-shirt. Please spill on how we get the coveted Classicstoday.com t-shirt.
Please tell her that I said "hello." I'm very flattered. I had the T-Shirts made from one of those custom makers on Amazon,com. It couldn't have been easier. I suppose of this channel is successful I'll have to open a shop and sell CT.,com swag!
CT.com coffee mugs, please!
Isn't it fascinating how favourite pieces and composers can strike one initially as ugly, difficult, or just meh? I had a similar experience with Bartok and with my very favourite composer, Britten. When I first heard his music I hated it.
Did Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra make a good recording of Bartok “Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celeste’s”?