Li-ion Batteries soldering for RC JET, 6s pack, step by step, tips&mistakes Samsung 40T 21700
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- Li-ion Batteries soldering for RC JET,
6s pack,
step by step, tips&mistakes Samsung 40T 21700
#WojtekBrzozowski
#WojtekHappy
#EDFjetRC
#namaxa_media
A couple of commenters were critical of soldering but I understand your approach of using a very strong soldering iron to heat quickly. I do exactly the same thing when creating night flying lights from LED strips. I set my iron to its highest temperature so that I don't have to keep it on for long. You can easily damage the LED strip by getting it too hot, just like your batteries. So your approach is very good and it's certainly the right approach. Thanks a ton for your video!
Hi Wotjek. Very interesting and watch what you do closely. You mention to email you if we want the files for the cell holder. Are you able to share these?
HI, thanks for the great video, I made up 1 6s P45B pack, did a careful flight in my Avanti V1 and after using 3500MaH I landed and checked the pack, 3.45v / cell and it was 75Degrees C !!!
Only full throttle for take off and a few blimps here and there but cruised around 35 to 50 amps. Is this normal ? I'm concerned about the heat. Andrew in Perth Australia
You have explained shown very well how and why. Thank you very much!
Wow !!! Thanks a lot for posting this vid showing all details of a Li-Ion pack assembly. There's lot of good tips & tricks from your experience included to make it easier for us to avoid mistakes :-)
I really appreciate all your time & efforts, thanks again. Greetings from Belgium.
Thanks for this instructional video! It´s cool to know although I don´t have a 3D printer to do that and have still many lipos. Knowing about durability and weight they are a cool option!
Guys, guys. Please don’t ask Wojtek newbie questions about your beginner projects. For newbie guidance about motor sizes, battery requirements for your trainer model, hot melt gluing the crashed model back together. Find an RC club or competent modeller to help you. Wojtek is here giving us a tutorial on building batteries from Lithium Iron cells.
Great informative video. I did not know how to do this. Very good! Safety/Health related: please, use exhaust fan/duct to remove fumes. In a factory this is required.
Do you have the STL files available to print the holders?
That will be good.
Your videos inspired me to build my own 4S 4500mah pack with the Molicel P45B cells. Recommend your soldering method, I just used short lengths of 14awg wire and pre-tinned them, couple of seconds with an iron that has some good thermal capacity and job done. On the bench charging and balancing now. Do you charge them up to 4.2v per cell or run them a little lower?
Now I´m getting there to solder my first LiIon 6S or 4S/5S pack :D Is there any possibility of getting a file to print the holders or would you sell someones :D ?
Hi,, did you find a way to get the holders file for 3D printing. I guess he left them in another video, I will search it and let you know. please if you found a 3D file, please post it here so I can use it, Thanks
Would you sell ready built 6s or 8s packs with the new MOLICELL P45B?
Great video. Thanks for effort to show to us new ideas for power on EDF jets. How did the batteries "Molicel INR21700-P45B 4500mAh - 45A" for EDF use perform? Is the power of 45A enough for maximum performance, for example Avanti V2 or E-flite Viper? I wanna try to make 6S packs, so any new info will be precious before start play this game.
Thank you for your very good demonstration and explanations. Most ESC are only capable for LIPO or NiMh and cut down in LIPO-mode at 3,2 V, even if you program it at "low". What ESC do you use or how to programm the ESC not to cut down before the battery falls down to 2,8V? Does it make sense to program it for NiMh-mode and waiting for the information of the telemetry that the voltage has fallen to 16,8 V for a 6 S pack (6 x 2,8V = 16,8V) during flight?
I use FrSky Neuron ESC or YEP/Sunrise Model ESC. Lots of ESC's can program to off the cutoff. I use FrSky telemetry to tell me either voltage drop to 2.8 or batt usage 3000mAh.
Hi Wojtec, I would like to give you a very good tip and share it with everyone. I see you use scissors to cut the copper sheet. Here's the thing. Use a large strong knife. The ones you can break off the tips to have a new sharp end. Take an aluminium ruler. Just mark the copper sheet for the width you want to cut. Then in 3 or 4 times make a groove with your knife along the marking. You don't have to cut it all the way ofcourse,just a groove. Copper is weaker than your knife. So it's easy to make a groove. Than line up the sheet with the groove on top with your desk. Put the ruler on top off the sheet just next to the groove. Know you are able to bend the strip you have marked and you put a groove. I do it with a large wide hammer just with slightly tiks one next to the other. Now the groove has bend the copper sheet in 90 degrees. This is what you want. It's know easy to bend it again in the opposite way. I use a heavy wide pliers. After the next bend, down again with the hammer, the copper starts to crack. It's the principle of metal fatigue. Know you have a very nice and straight strip of copper which you don't have to hammer flat. The strip is know very straight and as wide as you want! Succes all!
Thats interesting , i will try this ... i do it with a DREMEL TOOL .... you loose some copper , but , its also a clean CUT ...
Hey thanks for another great informative video. I am new to the whole diy li-on stuff so I have a question how are you able to get 100amps from these cells that are rated for 35amps max? Thanks in advance.
This video is 2 years old now. How are these packs holding up and how do they take the power draw in your runs?
Hi Wojtek, hope to hear back from you. Can you tell me what transparent plastic wrap you're using? Is plastic wrap even necessary? I'm thinking they would likely cool better without the plastic?
You need to wipe your hot soldering iron on a wet sponge, it will remove the oxide layer. Also if you use some kind of flux, you will not need such a large soldering iron. The cheapest flux is petroleum jelly. Flux allows the heat from the soldering iron to transfer onto the piece to be soldered.
Great information and good job Wojtek. Thank you.
Do you prepare the batteries with soldering paste? And what`s about the tip of the soldering iron? Did you grind it to this form because I`ve never seen such a blunt soldering tip.
Super interesting video. Nice work. I didn't know that Li-ion batteries could power an EDF. I still use Lipo's for my jet. Would also like to switch to Li-ion batteries. Is it possible to get the STL file from the battery holder?
Thank you for sharing this. Lots of useful information!
When I looked up the specs on the Samsung 40T cells, the max amps is 30A. At 1:42 are you saying they can do 100A/cell? Or is that the max per the 6-pack you are building? At 30A/cell the total max amps delivered would be 180. I can see using only 100A or less to keep them cool.
Great video! What is better nickel strip or copper? For soldering. Not for spot welding
Use nickel strips and get some stainless steel flux. That guy is cooking those cells way too long...
I learned a lot! Thanks for making the video
Wojtek, very informative and inspiring video. Whats the lifespan of the battery pack?
Super filmik Wojtku, pozdro z Siedlec ;)
Awesome, thanks for sharing
I have looked for that Samsung cells but on the datasheet says constant 35A, max 45A until 80°C or burst (puls) 70A. Are they really enough for your jets?
But they are really cheap with around €8 the piece! :D
Which jumper is better to use for assembling Molicell 21700 42A - 6S
What thickness and width of the steel tape is suitable for peak loads of long-range quadcopters. I want to use metal tape and welding instead of soldering
Hello friend, excellent video, thank you from Colombia:
Can you help me with something, I have a SJRC F7 4K drone, with which LI-on batteries can I make a battery pack and be able to change them for the original ones that the drone comes with? thanks for your help
You make perfect packs...congratulations!!! The question is ... where to by this cells? Thanks.
NKON in the netherlands
Awesome, greately helpful to make Li-on battery pack without spot weld personally, I would appreciate it if you could share 3d printing file for the brackets. thanks in advance~
Do you sell the 3d printed cell holders? I do not have a 3d printer but would love to try some of these packs!
Congratulations for your helpfull video, how can I get the 3d printed suports? ...and how do you charge this 6s packs??? Voltaje and amps in charger?. Best regards. Jose
does your solder have flux in it, or do you flux with something else? or no flux?
I see you are using 12 AWG wire for the main leads. Is this sufficient for a 6S pack with the new Molicel INR21700-P45B?
Great Video, Also Great Cameraman/woman.
I was not paying attention and I bought four amp 18650 cell 3500 mah will they work for long range 7inc
I would like to try making up some of these packs. What are the significant voltage values for the 40T cells i.e. max charge voltage, storage and cutoff? Thanks much.
Hi quick question do you make battery packs up for sale
Thank you for this video and sharing with me your STL files via email earlier!
Can you provide more detail on the replacement shrink\jacket you use on the cells? Thanks in advance!
you can buy it in the some shop you buy your cells from. just a normal transparent shrink sleeve
@@EDFjetRC Thank you for your reply! I found them! :)
How would this work for long range quad cruising in FPV? I'm thinking the power to weight might be to much for a quad but i'm not sure?
Great video. I am tempted to make my own packs - you make it look easy. Btw - you t-shirt is inside out. ;o) Subscribed.
Hi Wojtek, you the man. Another superb video! Have you thought of releasing the STL file to another you may be able to mass produce your 3D printed battery cradle that you could offer for sale for the many guys like myself who would love to purchase several? Also, curious if there isn't a way to produce a flat rectangle style pack versus an upright configuration. Such like a cradle or jig that allows you to replicate creating a pack (using the Molicel P45B of course ;) that produces similar dimensions to that of today's LiPo's.
no reason at all ... infact i have :)
You have what?
@@floating1351 flat rectangle pack cradles for 6s or 8s
@@nickmann7684 Can you share more? Certainly interested. Thanks
Just a quick thank you for the bracket files. In case it may help anyone i was able to successfully print them in asa on a stock ender 3 with 245° nozzle and 95° bed. It is in a cheap Creality enclosure "tent" and using Filamentum ASA Extrafill. Had a lot of trouble with the bracket not sticking properly to the bed or warping, - USE A RAFT ! With a raft perfect and no trouble at all.
Hi Wojtec - do you use solder tin with or without lead?
Hi Wojtek, what gauge wire are you using for the discharge leads?
bravo for your videos which are a great source of information, it makes you want to have the same material. I am surprised by the power which quentu draws from the 21700 whereas on the characteristics it indicates 35A? could you send me the file to make the same batteries
Pomysł z paskami miedzi pokrytymi cyną jest genialny!
dzięki :)
@@EDFjetRC Jak się Panu te lutowane pakiety spisują? Sam stoję przed wyborem metody połączeń ogniw w pakiecie i lutowanie bardziej do mnie przemawia, szczególnie , że pakiet wysokoprądowy.
No videos lately??? Great that you make these, but do they have enough discharge current for a 6S RC Jet to fly unlimited vertical?
Great Video! Are the 3d Files for these holders available anywhere? thanks for your help!
Where can I order those Li-on batteries from? An, where can I find the 3D print file for there mounting brackets?
Could you possibly share the stl files for the packs. I have made 21700 4s2p but want to make 6S1p packs x 2 for FW Avanti S with Caddx vista. Great videos, very inspiring, thank you.
awesome thank you. how can we get stl files for printing the packs? cheers
drop me an email wojtek at namaxa.com
Quadcopter draws less than 20amp which cells do u recommend for more flight time
Samsung 50E
Nice jobb 👍
Amazing what you do with those cells. Are those Samsung 40T better than Molicel P42A ?
I do not know :)
Look up Battery Mooch and see if he has tested them, you can find him on facebook or google it
Did it for you ;)
www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/b6uyok/bench_retest_results_molicel_p42a_4000mah/
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/bench-retest-results-molicel-p42a-4000mah-21700-beats-40t-one-of-the-best-batteries-available.901847/
(I know this is vaping related so certain findings may not apply, but the data is solid, and Mooch is a trustworthy battery tester, I edited out some stricly vape related stuff))
"Bottom Line
This is a retest of this incredible performing 21700 which hits harder and runs for longer than the Samsung 40T. It even competes with the Samsung 30T at 30A. The 30T hits harder for about the first third of the discharge but then the P42A holds its voltage up better and hits harder for the rest of the discharge.
They are a bit larger than the Samsung 30T and 40T.
The P42A is my choice for best all-around performing cell of any size and best choice for a regulated mod for use from about 40W-90W each (80W-180W in a two-battery mod). Below that there are ultra-high capacity cells like the Samsung 50E2 that are a better choice. At above 90W each or so the Samsung 30T could be the better choice"
"The datasheet for the P42A lists 45A as the max continuous current rating but notes that cycle life is reduced at high current levels. Running this cell continuously at 45A gets it much too hot for that to be a continuous current rating we can use for comparing to other cells.
The datasheet lists the minimum capacity at 4000mAh. The six P42A’s I tested delivered 4115mAh - 4142mAh at 800mA (0.2C) down to 2.5V. This is great consistency and they all easily meet their minimum capacity rating.
I am rating this Molicel at 30A continuous with a temperature-limited rating of 40A as long as you stop before the cell reaches 75°C."
Hi,
Do you sell 8s, 8000 mah batteries and 110mm wemotec turbine air inlets.
Sorry I do not sell anything
With how much voltage sag happens, and knowing that edf manufacturers build and test at full potential. Is it possible to run 6s high current setups on 7s (assuming the esc can do 7s) and assume the voltage sag is enough to cover the added voltage from the extra cell ?
I run like that - you can add more then one cell :)
The limiting factor is the ESC - make sure that it can cope with the higher cell number, especially if it includes the BEC.
If you don't fly 100% full throttle, then engine should not be a problem - its about the total power output here : voltage x amperage.
If you use 2P setup, then you never get more then 95 amps .Compared to 120-130 with LiPos and what manufacturers test with. So you can compensate with higher voltage.
I have Freewing F-22 90mm with Schuebeler ds-51 HET-1125. Rated for 12S. I fly it on Molicel P42 14S2P - I am actually considering making it 16S.
I also have Freewing Avanti with Wemotec Midi80 HET-2250. It is supposed to be Lipo 6s. I used to fly it on 6S2P MOli P42A, but changed the ESC and now its 8S2P - its perfect now :D
@@adamtrzaskowski3901 very cool, I am using a pair of jp 70mm 6s units in my fa-18. The jet is setup and specifically flown as a 3d aerobatic plane. Vector nozzles and all of that. I'm just looking to get above 1.8:1 thrust to weight. I'm at 1.6:1 now and I think bumping it up to 7s would get me closer to the fan potential and get me over that mark for power without changing much. My esc can manage up to 8s.
@@96vmax4 If your ESC can manage 8S, then I would go for it :) Just add heatsinks to motors and it should be fine.
@@adamtrzaskowski3901 they are 12 pole 2250kv out runner motors. I can't use external heat syncs. The whole housing and fan setup is metal so I've been relying on that to help with cooling.
@@96vmax4 There is a video here of Wojtek flying Avanti with HET 2250 on 8S without heat-sinks - but in winter.
Yours are 70mm, so quite less amps pulled.
I would run in on a bench with some kind of thermometer and measure the motor temperature - if you really want to be on the safe side.
How much does your 6s 4000mah pack weigh? I would love to try building one of these for my 3d vector jet but if it weighs to much it may not work
He tells you in the video - 470gm This is much less than my 620gm 4000Mah LiPos.
@@andrewgordon2450 the problem is you need to use two in parallel to get enough amperage for the amp draw of the power system which would weigh more than a single 6s 4000 lipo
@@andrewgordon2450 At 1:55 he says 1 cell weighs 70g, so a 6-pack weighs 420g. For a 2x 6-pack, wired in parallel, or 8,000mAh in order to get higher amps, it would weigh 840g or less than a Liperior brand 5000mAh LiPo 55C weighing 884g. I would guess the advantage is cost and less problems with storage and life cycles. The disadvantage is YOU have to build them yourself, investment in time.
@@andrewgordon2450 my first pack 475g with 1AWG wire and big copper connectors :P
Can i get a copy of the 3D files for the brackets, great video and inspiration
Possible to share the 3d file for the covers
Back in the 1990's I used to "roll my own" NiCd packs- you could save a ton of money by buying the NiCd and later Ni metal hydride cells in bulk. The soldering of the top of the cells with a big, high wattage soldering iron is the same as you are doing here.
Ahhh, the 90`s.. Before even Ye olde Sanyo SCRC 2400 matched loose cells came out, top of the line!
Those cells could take some real abuse.. Melted the ESC&motor wires in a boat I had, must`ve been at least 100A over about 1min, batteries weren`t even body temp..
Early NimH`s just couldn`t hang with the NiCd`s back then..
where to buy the battery holders?
He makes his own on a 3-D printer. But don't ask for the STL file. He won't provide it.
:P easy to make.
@@blacksheeprcmodelers959 Then you won't mind posting the STL file. Thank you.
@@hifinsword it's not as if it's difficult to design your own though. If you have a 3D printer you already probably already know how to do that.
@@jeremysargent5037 I don't have a 3D printer or CAD program. I do have a saw, plywood, balsa wood and a drill.
Great .. what is the Soldering Wire dimension 1mm or 1.5mm?
12awg
Thanks for your respond , but i meant the lead solder wire
www.google.com/search?q=lead+solder+wire&client=ms-android-samsung-rev2&source=android-browser&prmd=ivn&sxsrf=ALeKk031-G_rOeYDLSHo9kEKhA4exd9tQA:1624708267122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjf9__4nbXxAhWG7KQKHalYAjEQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=360&bih=520
@@peteryoussef8263 2mm
2mm he says! Watch and hear :)
Can you do the same thing with 18650's only asking as they are easier for us to get here in little New Zealand
Yes but go only for Sony VTC6. Strong cells easly delivering 50 Amps.
@@EDFjetRC The specs I see are for 15A continuous and 30A max. Can you reference where you found the 50A spec?
How about doubling the wires instead of extra capacitors?
weight savings
What is the gauge of the power cables? 12AWG ?
12awg
Sir I want to become rc plane having 2kg weight I will use edf 70mm- 6s motor then tell me which is suitable battery for this rc plane
mAh??? C???
Please reply me sir
I request you
Where did you bay your battareys 😊?
nkon.nl
@@EDFjetRC thank you 😊
@@EDFjetRC Batteries from the Netherlands, i had no idea they had them here, but than again the 21700 batteries i did not know of, only the 18650. 5-6 euro for 1x 35-40a is pretty good and work great. I use them alot in other aplications. Receiver batteries and bikelight😂
Can we buy the plastic holders and the battery's, or can you give me the file to print it myself, or can you give me the link where to buy the battery's, should be nice to have some more information, many thanks from the flying brothers from Belgium
Hey Remi I have some on order! from your English friend at the club ; ))
Any success in getting these trusty holders? I was not able to find the files for printing up to now.. thx!
@@markusspani9264 Hello Markus, should it be possible to send the files for traying to print, it should be nice, many thanks, Remi from Belgium
@@remicallant8756 I am still searching for them … greetings
thanks
Hey bud im very interseted in your stl design is there any way i can buy that stl file so i could print my own.
Hi Wojtek, i‘m celebrating your Videos👌🏻 can i get a copy of the 3D Files for the brackets ? I have the same Black Horse Viper and i will take your Setup with LiIon Cells 8S and Jetfan 110 Pro. Thx B
thanks :-D
Nice video! Can you share the 3D files for the brackets?
Sure, drop me a mail wojtek at namaxa.com
@@EDFjetRC Wojtek, wrzuć pliki na thingiverse.com :) Cieszę się, że Ci drukarka służy.
Hi,
The battery: INR21700 Li-on 4000 mAh - max discharge: 35 A only. You are talking about 60 - 80 A, (or I missed something). How it is possible ?
Best regards.
Surelly means 2 pack of 6s în paralel harness connected. It flyes big edf and have space for 12 li ion
Can I buy one?
DIY only :)
@@EDFjetRC aawww dang.
You can take a straight edge and score the cut line a few times on the copper with a hobby knife. After that you can snap it off the end instead of cut with scissors.
thanks :)
Informacje super...szkoda tylko że nie mówisz po polsku...
Why does every manufacture state on their datasheet ... "WARNING - Do *NOT* solder the cells" ?
becouse when you overheat them, they might get damaged.
@@EDFjetRC Hallo können Sie mir das file für den 3d Drucker für die 6er Akkuhalter zukommen lassen.
LG. Mario
3.7 Max. continuous discharge
(Surface temperature)
35A(Without temperature cut)
45A(With 80℃ temperature cut) ---- NOT 100 Amps.
Has anyone have any success in obtaining the STL files for 6s and 8s packs?
I don't think he's going to provide them. It's been years now and people asking. But NO STL files to date.
Yes , i have , ...
Got tired of waiting and just designed and printed better ones myself.
@@jonandrews6839 Could you share please ? I'm from Brazil and I have to ask a friend to print it for me, he's kind and only charges me for the material used, but he won't design the product....
@@petyahawk what size cradles do you require?
Watched the video. I do not agree but please continue
I have been building battery-packs of different kinds of cells for many years now. Actual measurement reports show that soldering, even with a very good technique and suited equipment, will degrade these kinds of cells. Spotwelding for me is the only correct solution to me. But if you wish to solder than please do so.
@@b.w.oostdam8875 I do the same with these LiIon cells , ... i fly them for 1 year now , 100 flights in the AVANTI , 6S 12000 mAh , and .. what do you think ... ? not 1 cell is damaged , not 1 cell is out off balance , not 1 cell is broken , not 1 cell is BAD .... POWER POWER POWER , do you have TESTED it ? do you have a solution that we can SPOTWELD everything on this 21700 LiIons ? i dont think ... I LOVE THOSE LiIons ... But .. .. YES I CONTINUE .... ;-)
@@ronnyskfhow much does your 6s 12,000 li-ion battery weigh? How are you able to get 100amps out of it for discharge? Thanks
One does not solder 18650 cells - period....
Okay, and your comment on this video makes sense, how?
@@juliand2107 too much heat is put into the cells and they will always be degraded by the process. Spot really is the only way to do it correctly i'm afraid
@@juliand2107 I meant spotwelding. Sorry about that
@@b.w.oostdam8875 Yes, thats what this video is about, and also not about 18650 cells. You should watch the video before commenting.
Yes you are correct. I stand corrected. Sorry about that.
Poor soldering technique.
please share your soldering skill
@@EDFjetRC I've got 55 years of it. Where would you like me to start ?
@@frank-vq4mx I think you mean 55 years of honing your jackassery skills... its hobby not a profession.... fell free to link to your professional soldering how too videos so we can all tell you what your doing wrong...
@@ltdorn Thin skinned person aren't you ? Don't like the comment ? Than you should disable the comments. You are providing wrong information that one day will hurt someone.
@@EDFjetRC Not my "jackassery" video.
Hello, thank you for your wonderful work in replacing lipos that have become too expensive! I have a c & c model which flies in 12s, it no longer flies because of lipos ... Can you send me the stl of the battery holders, because I did not understand how to contact you with the address namaxa.com because it is not a valid email address? Thanks again