Farm Philosophy: Exploring Permaculture, Climate Change, and More!
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
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Farming is not just about crops and livestock; it's a profound journey of discovery that touches on permaculture, climate change, ecology, Marxism, capitalism, and even the concept of ecovillages. Join Curtis Stone as he delves into the depths of farm philosophy, exploring the interconnectedness of these concepts and their impact on modern agriculture. Embrace a broader perspective on the farm and its profound implications for our planet's future!
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About Curtis Stone:
Curtis is one of the world’s most highly sought-after small farming educators. His book, The Urban Farmer, offers a new way to think about farming𑁋 one where quality of life and profitability coexist. Today, Curtis spends most of his time building his 40-acre off-grid homestead in British Columbia. He leverages his relationships with other experts to bring diverse content into the homes of gardeners and aspiring small farmers from around the world. Learn more at FromTheField.TV.
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Since watching your videos 14 months ago I have started my own local farm and periodically sell my excess produce to restaurants.
Curtis I'm a hardcore individualist and farming really closes the loop for me. I read down old barns and nasty buildings to use and resell for profit.
I have full, purpose driven days now. The responsibility gives meaning to life beautifully.
This is awesome stuff curtis, Your going a bit out on a limb by continuing to wear more and more of your beliefs on your sleeve and I really appreciate the genuine real talk. The long form conversations are powerful and id love to see more with more people you think have important things to say. Always great stuff and appreciate any and all content!
that's a limb more of humanity should sit on, i'd say.
It is so refreshing to listen to two men having an intelligent conversation about life and being a productive member of a community ( ones local community at large) and how permaculture contains life lessons to help us all navigate life. Many points to ponder and apply.
I can't believe that you two guys raised questions and observations I have been struggling with in evolving my place in Oklahoma. This was absolutely amazing timing.
Curtis, I really want to thank you for this. I have a PDC, a teaching certification and Advanced certification. I dig the concepts that deal with recognizing patterns, maximizing yields and finding new ways of looking at/using things, as well as sharing the surplus. Unfortunately, I have also had an uneasy feeling about Permaculture and couldn't quite put my finger on it. The feeling came when they started talking about a new concept; "Sociocracy." My gut did a flip because I immigrated away from communist Poland many years ago. I started to back away from Permaculture because of this. Anyway, this conversation really helped me realize that the neo-Marxism is the root, but also that it is not all pervasive. Thanks for that. By the way, the conversation NEEDS to continue and I really love the Jordan Petersen shirt. Maybe a Libertarian Permaculture collaboration to counter the nonesense?
Great comment. Thank you.
Curtis with the low key Rothbard shirt too.
Absolutely spell binding conversation.
I am 60yo and live in Brisbane Australia.
I have been in and out of permaculture since the 70s, and agree neo-Marxism compromises many of the people into it.
I've always prioritized a libertarian mindset and path to earn money and be economically productive and add value to civilization.
What I find is people who are lower order thinkers who don't evolve a path for themselves, fall back on relying on a group dynamic.
However, so many groups fail unless core values are resonant i.e. people of various religious denominations tend to create and sustain communities better. But the Marxist's I've met have very rubbery values.
hehe. 1:09 and so you know what I am talking about re Christian (or values based communities) working better!
Just discovered your channel and this was the third video I watched. You caught me with the Peterson quotes t-shirt but I stayed for the awesome discussiom
Q Ballmer
This has been my favourite chat in a long time. You have your finger on the pulse here. Also enjoyed the little BC references. I laughed at the reference to OK Falls, and I've also heard West Van mining (and film) magnates talk about saving their small little sanctuaries. But really, you've spoken to some really important topics.
So glad for this discussion, esp. re: invasive species... definitely needs to be part of the discussion. Living in a country that prohibits importation of seeds and plants and where most ag supply stores sell GMO and not organic/heirloom seeds has really opened my mind on this subject. In our rapidly changing climate, we must adapt.
Awesome Curtis, i love when people can learn through life experiences and grow from it. But also help others do the same though sharing.
I can not thank you enough about this chat. Great ideas and concepts.
Please more videos like this, loved the talk. Maybe consider starting a podcast because that would be phenomenal.
I am thinking about that. At this point though, if I add anything to my life, something else has to be cut. Just not sure what that is yet.
Wow, what a fine contribution to the art of conversation. Really enjoyed this, hope to see more along this line.
Definitely do this again. Your perspectives are enlightening.
I remember when I first started watching your videos four years ago, wondering if you were a Marxist. I decided to take the dive and start as an urban farmer. I met you in Spokane, WA and heard your talk. I was thrilled to hear your libertarian viewpoints laced throughout that lecture. I was also very glad to be in a room of people that were very receptive of your message. I knew then that I was not alone in this journey as a rebel against the control of government. Keep up the great messaging. Now I have something to help fill my days until late winter and begin gearing up for spring production and to listen to in the greenhouse and the field.
I love the I deal of the store. Selling farm to store. Veg, flowers, starts eggs chicken meat, chicken fertilizer. Growing rabbits, selling rabbits, meat, fur, rabbit fertilizer. Sides o home made bread, canned veg canned meat jams and jellies. Also consigning from other farms.. I had a lavender farm, animals garden. And a long vacation in the later fall. Just lived it.
You two need a pod cast
Thanks guys very insightful
Oh badass! I did my PDC with Jesse right before I found your stuff, looking forward to watching this.
that was a great conversation !
All ideologies have a tendency to lasso individuals into a collective group-think, developing their own language and blind assumptions, and falling into an us versus them mentality. I notice that you use the phrase “self-hating” to describe the mindset of conservationists. One could just as easily say that they actually have self-love, expecting the best out of humans based on our ability to come together and prevent or solve problems like eradicating polio or repairing the ozone. I thought the discussion concerning permaculture was more productive, talking about taking the valuable lessons from that discipline and leaving the kumbaya bits behind. I think that Jesse’s quip concerning ideology that “we’re possessed by one right now” should be taken as a cautionary statement for all of us.
This conversation tought me about Geoff Lawton and permaculture. He turned 2020 in a very good year. Major thanks Curtis!
Is there a reading list you can post Curtis? Starting from the most influential?
Read “how to win ....” a few years back and yes, great book. It seems to circle back to what you two touched on in your talk, becoming the one who can offer the most with the least in return, making yourself indispensable in a system.
I did a video on my top 5 books last year.
Beautiful to see and hear this all finally come to light. Been waiting for it for a long time. Even though the phrase "social permaculture" is pretty kitschy, this was one monumental step towards a better society and reinforces my understanding of you as a permaculturalist. The gifts you guys can present in the marketing, management, and general business world are abundant. Please bring Jesse back very soon, and for that matter, get the man himself JBP in the mix. Additionally I'd love to hear you and Jesse talk more about Taleb, Savory, Yeoman, and Darren Doherty.
Phenomenal discussion Curtis, this guest speaks the truth and you were right there entertaining the discussion while he laid it out. I especially liked when discussing how college was not able to provide the real world free market entrepreneurial type ideas you've been thirsting for and now teaching. "having skin in the game" how you put this is a great representation of how college doesn't provide people with the tools to make their ideas and thoughts turn into real tangible goods they can share with the world, also when discussing how people are people are cashing in to an idea and selling half truths through Permaculture Design Courses. Please devote more time relating to this idea because you've got some serious real world experience on how to organically create and share free market type ideas.
Keep up the great work!
Thanks for this. Pouring my self a cup of coffee for this one.
BTW- My first introduction to the world of permaculture was Greening the Desert from Geoff. I then went down the rabbit hole with the Lawton and Mollison videos. I guess I could not have done better.
Curtis, I love this kind of content so a big thank you for this. One thing I was wondering though is if these interviews are also available as a podcast? This way I could listen while working in the garden :)
Have a great Sunday :)
That was great!
can we do this again next week?
Fantastic Conversation Curtis and Jesse. Next time I would like a little conversation about crop rotation. Thanks Curtis for this amazing video, very very interesting. Cheers!!!!
I love this long discussion format.
This is refreshing. Always appreciate coming across ppl who see the madness going on. Didn’t expect this conversation. Glad you had it 👍🏼
Great vid.
Really ties things together.
Thanks for the insight.
As a former row crop farmer in Oklahoma, the social/economic/political inight is quite instructive.
Hi Curtis. Where can I get some more information about this topic "marxism vs. libertarians in permaculture" ? I am not familiar with the problem. Great interview!!! Thanks so much for this video!!!
I'm not sure. This part of the conversation was based on our observations from being involved with the permaculture community for as long as we have.
@@offgridcurtisstone Okay, thanks for your reply. Let me refrase my question. I am interested in this topic, how the permaculture scene differ from back then to nowadays. You have been noticing some influences of people thinking in black and white. Could you maybe recomment me a video, podcast or person so that I could learn more about those influences? I ask this because I have a German youtube channel about permaculture, as well. I find it very important to tell people in my videos that permaculture doesn't look a certain way or that one "does only permaculture" if they do it a certain way. I LOVED your video on permaculture myths! So I would love to learn about those influences you talk about so that I can be alert or at least careful with permaculture people I meet. Thank you very much. Regards from Germany 😊
You'll see more of the Marxist vs Libertarian in comment sections, than in the actual videos. The more open minded the host, the more comments they leave up.
CS has comments and debates from all kinds of people, and good on him for leaving them up.
If you're looking for a direct influence for these polar sides, it's come from individual groups that compliment each other and back each other up (like a daisy chain); attacking anyone who holds views that differ from theirs. That has always gone on, as far as I can remember, within 'Green' communities. It's just a thing that will probably always be there. Though hay, there's always really cool open minded people too, that that want to live well, and help when they can, when it's the right thing to do *looks at OP and CS* Thanks for being cool people, and sharing ;)
The origins of permaculture, at least from David Holmgren's perspective, was communist.
I know he pulled from Maoism, which became prominent in the 80's, but I don't know if that is Holmgren's official political position.
I don't really understand why he keeps referring to everything he hates as "neo-marxism", because the ideology he had complications with in biology seems to liberalism or at least industrialism. He should have learned about Peter Kropotkin (although we only talked about him for 5 minutes in biology), who focused on cooperation of species rather than competitition which Darwin espoused. Kropotkin was an anarcho-communist by the way.
You can look further into Bookchin and green Anarchism, which has Marxist roots. Bookchin focused on ecology, capitalism, consumption, and eventually developed his own political philosophy municipalism. He even criticized the USSR over industrialization, pollution and overproduction.
The argument that socialists/anarchists/communists make is that market systems feed off of consumption and have to constantly overproduce to maximize profits.
Also, if you listen to David Holmgren, they talk a lot about native people's and their sociopolitical systems, and sort of a return to this sort of way. It's akin to primitivism, but they don't mind using technology to work in cooperation with the ecosystem.
@@andrewgreen5574 Thanks for that reply. Tremendous lack of knowledge concerning Marxism in the US in particular. Most people's information is based on second hand sources or just reducing all of Marx to the countries that attempted to implement the practice with widely varying degrees of intention.
The reality is understanding the system of the garden. What works for you and what builds your soil. My struggle is knowing how to avoid the chemical world that has invaded every part of our world.
For others who might like to know, Jesse now lives I Kaladen B C running Vintage Harvest farms. He sells his csa-s on line and delivers in his local area. How innovative for groups of local farmers to sell to people are not going to weekday farmers markets because they are at their jobs.
Sudbury, Ontario is using this online format for farmers produce.
That was superbly entertaining. Hope to see more with Jesse. Also, Jesse (if you're reading) have you considered sheep? Even rotationally grazed you can set them up with a large paddock for a few days so you can have a "day off". With animals there's always the potential for escape or catastrophe in those days, of course, but very easy to manage overall. And very efficient eaters with low water needs.
Great conversation thank you for sharing this important information listening from Brownwood Texas
Dude is a genius!! Curtis (also a genius) thank you for winding him up and letting him go! Very good food for thought.
It is so hard to witness chats like this where I live...LOVE IT!!!
I’ve noticed this as well. So I’ve distanced myself from “it”
Using an intellectual club to beat others with never plays out well.
Glad y’all are willing to life the curtain
Hell of a conversation. Need more like it.
Holy cow, this was amazing. Please do this again!
Great talk. Thank you for making your videos.
I dug learning about the politics of permaculture...not my area of expertise but fascinating!
Labels labels labels... I had no idea permaculture was so political. I thought permaculture was a farm design.
It's not. We're just two people expressing our views on it and having a conversation. Neither of us is elected officials of permaculture.
Permaculture is anticapitalist, anti-colonial, and ecological. Or not, if you really want to ignore some important things
Nice Rothbard shirt!
What a great Universal conversation to be had!
From the depths of our DNA out to our space wars developing now... Your message I am hearing more and more, this is encouraging, I'm thinking we're just in the midst of a compost pile🤔
Fuck that racist scumbag. Sad that Curtis is embracing the mental illness of Alt-Rightism.
There's no alt-right boogie man here dude, that's your own fear talking. I reject all forms of identity politics.
"Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase. This is as true of humans in the finite space of a planetary ecosystem as it is of gas molecules in a sealed flask. The human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who do survive." Frank Herbert, Ecology of Dune
Permaculture should be kept as an (organic) culture. Before you know it we will be referring to it as permiculturalism similar to veganism.
Either you adapt to that way or you’re an enemy rather than channeling in diversified way.
My permaculture neighbor frowns on my approach. (Market Garden) There is some respect but a feeling of “my way is best” is lingering on his end.
Great talk. Thanks for posting Curtis... So much to think about.
You guys get together and do this again. Great conversation.
Thanks, great content really enjoyed this one.
Awesome video. Please do it again....
Great video! Need more like this Curtis.
I, watched, this WHOLE thing!! - man, would love to sit with you guys one day
One of your best guests. Thank you
Hey @Curtis, international permaculture day is on May 2nd.
Any plans for that day? Perhaps use the day to spread awareness?
I like these types of conversations and it is nice to know there are sane people out there as well.
Really enjoyed this video!
So many things for me to do research on. So much discussed that I have never heard of. I didn't attend university or college and now on this side of my life I am so glad I didn't. I too, am glad that Geoff was my first permaculture teacher, but it was online. So now I am looking up and trying to find all the references that was discussed because I really don't understand what you are talking about but I think along many of these lines but didn't have the verbiage or education to be able to explain myself. Hoping I just find the most appropriate resources, links, persons that can explain these new terms. Thanks for sharing.
Great discussion, love it.
Use a proper sickle,cut your weeds and lay them down on your paths or on the rows themselves.
Weeds are a resource
Awesome.. please do again. It was just awesome !
It took about 7 mins and i realized this was going to be good...and it was
Umm...
I guess I like this video too?! The main part that is very interesting to me. Is the insights that this video provides. Into the logic of two folks a specific demographic of these "Western societies". I'm a permaculture student and practitioner that happens to be an American born citizen from the African diaspora. The ethic I am most intrigued by is FairShare (return of the surplus). I tend to feel that the FairShare ethic will more readily aid us in accomplishing Earth Care and People Care. I think the science of permaculture is as solid as any you'll find in academia. Unlike the two subjects in the video many people in the U.S. and Globally aren't privileged to access higher-level University. This is where a large part of one of the speakers experiences came from. I here a lot of not so undertoned dialogue in the video of ' pull yourself up by the bootstraps'! Ok...I guess if you at least have a decent pair of boots.
Though there definitely are at lot of improvements that can be made within permaculture, I agree. One of them is lack of diversity (i.e. opinion, demographically, etc.). I personally have never seen a Marxist leaning permaculture group or organization. Most I've seen are like one of the person's in the comments section "total individualists". Which is totally cool with me. I mean "This is America!" the way I see it. So my mission in permaculture is to try help educate/train as many of the underserved and underrepresented in my community -- who might be interested -- on how to use permaculture as a tool. That will aid us in socio-economic improvements and environmental justice...individually and as local (and global) community members. I think applied correctly permaculture ethics and principles will definitely help us make these strides.
Overall I do like the full-on capitalistic view points of Curtis. I mean it is what it is, right? He does give some good get-money advice and tactics. As they say, "the enemy of my enemy, is my friend". And my biggest enemy is poverty.
We'll just have to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps...to get a FairShare. Just my 2 cents to add to 4.
Peace
"Ideas have you rather than you have the idea?" Sort of. I think this phrase is a take off on James Hillman's teaching of architypal psychology. Slightly misunderstood as used. Hillman meant that the gods you ignore or deny are the Gods that have you. It is important to be conscious or to bring into consciousness that which you prefer to deny.
A legend episode. I would like to know how weird those eco villages. In more details.
I watched this 3 times ....... Agree to disagree on a few flavors your slinging. My opinion is Permaculture proper is Stewardship not some profit driven business modality...... Aloha Guys.
Amazing share!! Thank you Curtis!
Good chat guys! I feel like the majority of people interested in permaculture are likewise interested in philosophy
Ahh... I remember the silverfish crawling out the books and Banyan!
Great stuff guys. This was very engaging and I hope you both do more!
Would be great to hear you two chat now after the madness of the last couple years!
34:00 In my opinion the hippy maxrists are a result of focusing solely on the right-hand path, aka just yang in yin-yang, aka just service to others. On the other end of the spectrum you get psychopath grabblers who are a result of focusing solely on the left-hand path, aka just yin in yin-yang, aka just service to self. Balance is far superior to just one path. The left hand and right hand work like percentages, but the closer you approach 100% on either side the more of a hippie or psychopath you become. In other words its ok to use your left hand even though you are right handed.
A really interesting conversation,enlightening and refreshing.Thankyou both.
I keep seeing, hearing and thinking the pattern of infinity, 8. Its what they keep repeating and describing but not naming it.
I live in the area around Adelaide and i can totally imagine the guy youve mentioned
I love listening to you guys. I love talking about things in this deep way.
Curtis are you the 'Jordan Peterson' of the permaculture world? Thanks for the great content. Markets > govt.
Madden Humphrey socialism and Marxism really isn't 'govt'
@@KcarlMarXs I wasn't arguing that they were. I was referring to political philosophy and how much better markets provide goods and services.
Sure, at the expense of 'externalities'. Aka it's fucked over our environment + people + society. Not that most of what markets produces is useful.
@@KcarlMarXs I understand your point. There are costs to living. Did you know that the ancient Mayans deforested a lot of their land and it led to large scale soil erosion problems? My point is that all humans, not just modern capitalist societies, impact their environment. There is no perfect system. Stefan Molyneux's youtube channel is a library of history and philosophy. I recommend it. Cheers!
This was a lot of fun. It would be great if in the future you guys did a round table type thing with a audience. I really relate to the " born again " gardners, permaculture, environmentalist, vegetarians,etc. Don't get me wrong, people can choose how they wish to live . But those who recently discovered whatever new aspect of life and promote it as the only acceptable way of doing things are nuts. My own Horticultural history goes back nearly 40 years in college. We were talking about a relatively new agriculture practice. The primary purpose of the new practice was to help small farms ( this was before market gardens) compete with large farms. It dealt with reduction in overhead costs like fertilizer, pesticides and herbicides. The new practice was called organic gardening. Yup, I can still remember those discussions. And we were doing garden tests with raised beds. Anyway, although it was agreed that the soils could benefit long term and that the reduction of chemicals would probably be a benefit for humans and the environment, it was increasing profitability for the small farmer that drove the discussion. Now organic gardening is so accepted but folks are not aware of what started it. It just seems to be how history and people repeat the past. I wonder what will be the next new technique in agriculture. Of course, these things are not new. Just the names we give them and the new wave of ignorant people who recently discovered it. And I hope no one is offended by me calling someone ignorant. It's not meant assumed a insult. We are all ignorant of a thing or a thought until we discover said things. I believe that we need to be careful about becoming over zealous with our new discovery. I have watched you and Richard Perkins talking about some people in permaculture with the same frustration that I have had with some folks with organic gardening. I feel your pain. Keep up the good work.
That would be fun.
+Urban Farmer Curtis Stone I apologize for my lengthy comments. My thoughts get away from me far to often. Anyway I enjoy your content and guests. Keep up the great work.
Don't defend any ideas 😉 totaly agree with every observation here amazing to ear people sharing same concepts i observed after 58 years rolling muy bones along😎
Great discussion. I feel the same on most of these issues. Nice to know I’m not alone.
As a musician and a gardener, I get so tired of the ridiculous hippies in artistic/nature circles. This conversation is a breath of fresh air.
I loved your conversation.
nice topic, always educating and entertaining...#microgreensbogor
It's all Curtis's fault ! He is why I'm busting my butt building a 3 acre farm. $40 K in & it's the best adventure in my life !
Great conversation!
Also, the guest's shirt is amazing.
A healthy, open and very refreshing conversation! Don't expect you to go much further in this direction because you may fear that it might affect your business. Not so?
Affect which one? My farm?
Just curious...are there more Libertarians in Canada vs the U.S. ? I know personally only a couple people other than myself. I lived in a rural area a couple years ago and my polling place did not even have libertarian ballots. They had to have someone drive some over from another town and I had to leave and come back to vote!
My Horticultural boss Don Bodi was talking to me about weeds...I said hows that a weed we grow rye grass as a crop....and he said..."A weed is anything thats not where its supposed to be"....I thought brilliant. I guess people can be the same when you look at people with power......when you get someone who,s not where thier supposed to be,and only causes division and harm....Thier a weed on society.Pull those weeds!
Great content! (Hear somebody also almost fourty ) But pulling the weeds?. I can with experience say that you don’t have to and shouldn’t!! mow, grow and mow again. And yes in between you should use a think layer of compost / tarp. Something else...”nature is in extreme competition “?? Check out the work of Ernst Gotsch...he says the opposite:)) cooperation and unconditional love! Talking about the guy that grew 600 hectares of foodforest, see agendagotsch.com cheers guys, thanks, I enjoyed this:)
Awesome discussion for me to revisit.
And it was actually on my recommended list! Lol
From the Designer's Manual, 2.14:
Permaculture Ethic #3: Setting Limits to Population and Consumption: By governing our own needs, we can set resources aside to further the above principles (#1: Care of the Earth, #2: Care of People)
How is this 'Neo-Marxist'?
Large scale societal norms enforced by a state or society in one way or the other.. what is that? So what do you do with people that do not want to follow you rules if you are the majority?
Neomarxism isn't a real thing.
I've been trying to rap my head around how you look at things Curtis, thinking maybe it goes against everything I think. That would have been great even if it was the case because I plan on using your book and UA-cam content as a tool to achieve my own goals anyway. I watched this video and realize we do in fact have some different views, but mostly because of different context due to where we are in our lives. I think I probably have a lot of the same values and goals as you and your friend. I would like to put my two cents in to anyone listening and say if you have an ideology influencing how you carry out your take on permaculture great but if it can't hold up under its own weight it probably isn't sustainable and needs refinement or to be scrapped. And further more if you talking the ideology but not taking action to put it to the test....well you really don't have a voice. This is advice that I gave myself because I was pissed at the world for not listening to my rants at how they should do this or not do that. If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem. This change in mind set has helped me a lot and keeps me positive day to day. Great video guys.
this is a great salon environment and amazing permaculture convo! live stream please?
Oh my gosh! I love the comparison between capitalism and competition among species. Blew my mind!
Power packed conversation!!!
I almost completely agree and am aligned with you on these stances. It's the reason why i stepped away from the permaculture mindset.
Thank you for this conversation Very enlightening
This was great. Thanks man.
This was delightful.