Congrats for this review and the reevaluation of the Element H. From my own experience the Element H does improve the sound of my audio dedicated computer BUT it depends on the motherboard used. I tried 5 different MBs and the degree of sound improvement over the MB's USB varied a lot. After intens listening sessions I decided to go with the one that sounds best to my ears. Another important thing discovered by me and confirmed by the Matrix engineers is that the Element H uses only 3.3V voltage from the PCIe port in order to function. Power supplying the internal or external voltage is ONLY needed for the presence of 5V on the USB link which is ONLY necessary for DACs that need that voltage for handshaking. My Matrix X-Sabre PRO DAC doesn't need that voltage on USB link, therefore the Element H is set to OFF and the USB cable transports only the signal and not the voltage. So, for the DACs that don't utilize the voltage on USB link, it is not mandatory to use other power supplies.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Element H. I was aware that some DACs don't need the 5V via USB, but didn't know you could disconnect power entirely with those DACs. That's really interesting and makes me wonder why the card requires 12V when it only outputs 5V and doesn't use external power to function.
@@dennisd9875 The test was almost half year long and I've tried Gigabyte B360N, an Intel NUC8i3BEH2, two of my friends mini PCs Lenovo and Dell and finally the board that sounded best was an older Gigabyte z77n MB. Maybe there are other MBs out in the wild that sound better but I haven't get the chance to try them. 🙂 In almost every review about the audio servers/streamers the designers confirm that they also listen to a lot of MBs until they settle to one and I think it's a painful process.
Cool video! I've been aware of Jcat for a little while now but haven't seen too many in depth reviews on them. I'm not quite at the point in my audio journey where I'd be willing to spend money on these sorts of "tweaks" especially since I've already gone down the raspberry pi streamer route. However if I build a custom server / streamer pc one day I would definitely consider these components as they seem to be some of the best available for this sort of application. Glad you are willing to take a look at these products which most people would consider "snake oil" or not apt to make a difference and offer your impressions on them through a fair blind test.
Thanks for respecting the approach! I'm expecting some hate for this one so we'll see... The Raspberry Pi is a great solution and I think has more impact than one of these cards. That said, adding a JCAT network card will give surprisingly good improvements when using the RPi. That's if/when you feel like spending the money of course 🙂
Hi Steve, comments like yours are fine - I don't think of those as hate at all. It's the disrespectful slander that I don't enjoy. Questions, scepticism and respectful alternative opinions are all welcome 🙂
Please correct me if I am uninformed/wrong, but from my understanding, DACs have internal clocks that controls timing between buffer and the DAC chip, so how would jitter on the USB output play a factor? If we are talking about a USB powered DAC that's badly designed without a regulator for its power rails, the less insane choice would be to put that $530 into a Bifrost or a Topping D90...
You're correct that DACs attempt to correct timing errors on the received signal and I'm not at all an expert in the technicalities of digital audio so I can't fully explain the technical side. What I can say though is that in my many years of listening to audio equipment, the whole signal chain is important. A poor output signal can never be returned to pristine quality so all these tweaks do matter at some point, but it's as a last step. I deliberately focused on the blind test in this review because I'm not qualified to explain how or why it works so I can only demonstrate in a controlled manner that it does work. 🙂
Even if you already have the Bifrost or D90 it might be better to save the $530 for an upgraded headphone, DAC, or amplifier. These cards would start making sense when $530 starts looking pretty affordable compared to the rest of your gear.
That's it exactly. I don't like to put rules to things like this, but as an estimation/approximation, I'd say you want your main components like DAC, amp and headphone to all be at the $1000 or so mark before dropping the cost of these cards on peripheral accessories. At that point I do think you get significant benefits, but prior to that, the max performance will be somewhat limited by the gear and also, as you say Dennis, that money is better off going towards improving the DAC, amp or headphones.
I'm right down the rabbit hole now .. lol. I'm planning to build my own totally passive home PC. I know nothing about PC's but from what I've seen on yt, it doesn't look too difficult. Thanks for the vid.
Hello, have you ever compared quality of output from your JCAT USB card (probably powered by LPS) vs output from a quality streamer? I stream from PC too (Audirvana) and deciding which way to eliminate the noise from my PC. Thank you.
Hi Lachlan! Firstly, I'd like to say how awesome it is to have a Melbournian creating quality audio content! Interesting in your thoughts on whether a battery or linear power supplies for USB & Network cards, now that you've had experience testing both options. Would you think it better for a first timing to go down the LPS or the battery route? Thanks!
I think both work fine, but I'd go for an LPS simply for the ease of use. Batteries don't like being constantly charged and having to remember to charge it can be annoying. With an LPS you can just connect and forget. Plus, an LPS will likely sound just a touch better if it's a good quality one. Most powerful battery power banks have a voltage controller which can create some slight noise that seems to degrade the sound ever so slightly compared to a good LPS. By the way, are you coming to the Melbourne HiFi Show? I'm hoping to be there 2 of the days and will mostly be hanging out with the Radiance AV team who have the Chord, Meze and EarMen gear.
If you’re not streaming and just playing downloaded music off a NAS drive over ethernet, does the audiophile ethernet card still bring any theoretical benefit?
Pretty cool, I've been binging on your channel for the last 5 hours. Very gentle and ethical the second shot on the Matrix H. May I ask what drove you to review it again? Greetings from Texas.
Glad you're enjoying the content, Eduardo! I was still using the Matrix when the JCATs arrived so I started comparing them and realised that the performance was very similar between them. That made me think that I'd been unfair on the Matrix the first time around because I'd been swayed a bit by people seeking objective data when my forte is listening and describing what I hear rather than getting into technical testing and diagnosis
This attitude is quite admirable, and rare. Indeed I understand the overall desire for objective, quantitative data; however these will not tell the whole story = there's more than what a given test can deliver. I wish you the best!
I've not dived deep enough into power supplies to answer that. There are some cheap options on eBay and AliExpress, but I can comment on their quality.
I actually consider them to be identical. I think of a DDC as like an external USB card (except it gives non-USB digital outputs). Both provide identical sonic improvements.
@@PassionforSound Ah that's what I thought! Thank you very much for your reply. You have an outstanding youtube channel. I come to You...for the truth. Thanks again mate!
Hi Lachlan, I felt one thing you didn’t address was whether these cards will help with really noisy PCs that exhibit chirping, ticks and buzzing from onboard USB sockets into external DACs, mainly from mouse movement and GPU/Display activity -common problems. The two problem DACs I have are both XMOS based. I have swapped out nearly every major component (PSU, motherboard, case, cables, added Thor power filtration board and tried all the associated tips and tricks, C-States and power options, tried USB filters, etc). I just can’t find a solution to it. Those sounds over USB are very loud and interfering. Will these cards put and end to the system noise?
Hi Heath, the reason I didn't address that is because I've never had that issue with my computer and it's possible that the issue your experiencing is occurring before the USB output which means the cards may not solve the problem. I can't speak to something that I haven't tested (and I couldn't test it because my computer doesn't have that problem) - sorry!
I have the same issue with a brand new motherboard, mostly due to the GPU but there is still noticeable noise after removing it, have you found a solution to this problem?
@@Bwalston910 I Don't think it's your GPU. It's something to do with the power regulation on the motherboard. Final solution was to ditch the MB. I have had this problem once before with Gigabyte MB. Try Asus, I no longer have the issues.
@@curlmythic I have a MSI PRO Z690A, when the GPU is removed the coil whine dissapears but I can still hear the CPU and SSD clicks. This leads me to believe that there is insufficient shielding on my USB and PCI lines. Theoretically, just using external power should fix this issue. This only happens when both my microphone and DAC are plugged in, meaning it must be a ground loop and dirty power in the PC.
If you have a very high quality power supply for the femto, should you turn the internal filters off? I heard if your dac doesn't use USB power then take out all jumpers. These jcat cards really surprised me. When I ab back to my mobo usb, the jcat is just more open, dynamic and layers so well allowing details to seep through.
Hi Manish, I guess removing the filtering might work if you're certain that the power supply is pristine, but it's really a question for JCAT. As for removing the jumpers altogether, that is suggesting that no power is better than any clean/filtered power so maybe that's a hint
The USB card to me makes perfect sense, audio signals leaving your computer have a clock attached to them so the more accurate the clock and cleaner the power the better. Plus usually (even if the DAC is galvanically isolated) part of the input will use the 5v supply from the PC so the cleaner that the better off it'll be. Also with UAC2 audio while errors can be detected there's no way to request re-transmission, aka you better send it right the first time. I don't really understand the network side, network cards are supposed to be isolated by design and things like clocks shouldn't matter (packets can be received out of order or corrupted and can be re-transmitted). Not saying I discredit your impressions, in fact I think they're hugely helpful but I just don't understand why. I'd love to dive in more and find out why, maybe one day! If it does matter my assumption the cleanest solution of them all would be something like the Sonore opticalRendu which takes in an optical network connection instead of copper ethernet. Thanks for being brave enough to tackle the conversational topics. I have a feeling this might not be your most popular video, but I still enjoyed it.
That's Blair. I was pretty shocked with the network card results too. I can only assume that it's about the noise rejection and possibly the fact that the signal is still having to pass from the card and into the motherboard or vice versa so perhaps they're making this interface more effective and therefore reducing the processing/reconstruction of the signal? I have zero clue with networking protocols so it all comes down to subjective experience on this one.
Ethernet should eliminate any timing concerns. Noise rejection is plausible difference. Also, a streaming service is likely using UDP instead of the TCP we are used to seeing. These are protocols running between ethernet and application protocols like HTTP and FTP - both of which use TCP. TCP supports resending packets and fails or pauses/stutters if a packet isn't received within the buffer time. In contrast, UDP doesn't support resending and will continue on despite dropped or corrupted packets. Hardware, and especially driver, improvements could reduce the error rate. Some motherboard ethernet implementations have dismal chips and drivers while others are quite good. So accepting that the is a difference between JCAT and motherboard ethernet, the degree of difference would also depend on how good the motherboard ethernet is.
Can you compare their latest 800euro version of USB card and compare to Matrix and JCAT previous gen less expensive card you have reviewed in this review...
@@PassionforSound Awesome as new card uses state of the art oscillator and some best LInear Tech lowest noise voltage regulators , so far all have been saying it is a huge improvement over previous card you have reviewed. I was also thinking of Matrix 329uad card that seemed priced much much better than JCAT that at 830usd seems very overpriced for what it is so Im looking for opinion and review if it really is 300% better than Matrix card , by the way Matrix card comes fully shielded and JCAT is not while being just inches away from all the sources of noise pollution in a PC case... i would expect that product to be shielded as well and price of new one should be at around 500usd at the most , it would sell lot better than at 830usd....
Very interesting and well executed review! Thanks for providing this info. One thing stays unclear, though... Is high end USB cable needed for connecting those USB PCIe card's USB out to DAC , does it further improve the sound? I believe you've stated that you have used the generic USB cable for your testing?
You're right that I used generic cables for testing just to limit the number of variables, but my use of the cards long term has shown that using quality USB cables does still make a difference.
@@PassionforSound Fantastic, as expected thanks for the insight :-). Although I remember the DDCs made almost no difference with the premium USB cables, which I found kind of strange. Thanks again and stay Finspired🤍!
Yes, the DDCs made the cable before them irrelevant, but the cable after them still mattered so it seems to be about the run from transport (inc DDC) to DAC that matters
@@PassionforSound Yes different digital signal cables as in SPIDIF, AES, Optical & I2S make huge difference from my own experience, but that quality USB connection from PC to DDC doesn't matter is quite strange and perhaps with the same analogy one would expect any USB cable to be fine with the high end audio USB PCIe cards, but as you've stated that isn't the case. So I think it is quite logical to think that DDCs are actually more superior than High end PCIe USB card in terms of USB bus isolation, if they make the USB cable quality irrelevant, right? I have a need for both ADC and DAC so high end PCIe USB cards are the only option because of the AD capture needed, but for just a playback and DAC perhaps something like Singxer SU-6 could potentially result in ''pure-ish'' audio signal flow... of course there's the question of the quality of the clock as well, but in general terms... I always preferred FireWire and Thunderbolt connections for audio to Mac / PC and recently Network (ethernet) based converters when properly set-up , with proper high end ethernet cables etc, where all better (cleaner - more transparent) sounding than USB based units, unless you're lucky and found the matching high end USB cables, then they were closer. The PCIe USB with external power looks super promising and can't wait to get my hands on one 🙂
I think the issue isn't that DDCs are superior to PCIe cards, it's about where each device sits in the chain. So, a PCIe card is doing much the same job as the DDC (although only outputting USB) and it's upstream wiring is the motherboard PCB so it's helping to improve whatever comes before it just like the DDC. For some reason, the piece of the puzzle that really matters is the downstream cable after the DDC or PCIe card and I can only assume it's got something to do with the fact that it's that cable carrying the signal that will ultimately be converted within the DAC
60% is only 10% more than 50%, which indicates no improvement. It will be good to perform the accuracy% on grouping set using card and non card to get better accuracy numbers. 60% is not a good result, More like > 75% would def prove some benefit. Also it would be good to listen to variate of genres, so that it covers bass heavy, mid heavy and extreme hi end tracks. I appreciate what you are doing here. There is also the pink faun 1100+ euro card and the new jcat with oxo clock.....suggestions for potential future testing ;)
Hi imo, the Gieseler supplies are of excellent quality. I don't believe (from experience with batteries and multiple LPSUs) that the JCAT supply will make a significant difference versus other good quality supplies like the Gieseler
Been watching stuff for a bit, and I was wondering if it would be possible for you to review the JDS Labs Element II- I'm looking into getting one, and have heard lots of great stuff about it, but would love to hear your opinion about it
Nice video, thanks for sharing. My source is a custom Dell Workstation (with modified Power supply, cables and GPU card). I still use the onboard USB to connect to my Mytek Brooklyn DAC + with SBooster power supply. I am considering to go for a JCAT with a power supply. Do you also have some recommendation for better USB cables?
Glad you liked the video! I have found the Supra cables to be excellent at an affordable price. Otherwise, the Curious Evolved USB cable is my absolute reference.
The pieces your referring to would be the jplay software that compliments both the usb and network jplay components. Jplay femto and previous 6.2 has been sorta controversional over the years and I have been using the software for years to stream tidal using a generic windows 2012 r2 pc. It has produced some of the best digital transport streaming to my 2 channel system over the years. Not the most user friendly with the software throttling my pc, using hibernating mode (basically shuts down everything in the pc but essential audio and network for streaming). You can control the different levels of programs the software shuts down on your pc. It can be inconvienet at times if your pc isn't up to it and it may freeze forcing a restart. And this software can be used with fidelizer software to further optimize the pc sound. I haven't tried either of these jcat products but can only imagine it would make for a better overall system. I just know that it has bettered every transport I have tired thus far. Even my sonore microrendu. Though I have a feeling it would get better with a much better power supply (all these networking/streamers are power supply sensitive ). Another option I would like to try is sonore optical rendu that totally isolates the pc from power and your equipment. Heard great things and more convienent than the jplay pc setup. Looks like your linear power supply your using would work great with all those devices with the assorted voltages it can do. Sonore and uptone make great power supplies and network isolating devices like uptone ether regen. One area that helps streaming audio is mproving a noisey Ethernet net hub. Those general uses are noisey and not optimized for audio. Just throwing own some stuff for future reviews for you to maybe consider. Thank you !
Thanks for the contributions, Brandon! I saw the JPlay software, but haven't given it a try as yet. There's no doubt (from my experiences) that the power supplies make a huge difference with USB and network cards
If I'm using a Schiit bifrost 2 DAC and Schiit Jotunheim (version 1) amp, do I need to get these USB and/or network cards for my computer to improve the audio?
I think you'd be better to spend the money elsewhere for now, Mike. I'd start by upgrading the amp. Jot 1 is ok, but Jot 2 or something even better will give you much more significant gains
@@PassionforSound Thank you very much for your reply, I appreciate it. What would you suggest besides the Jot 2? I'm running balanced to Dan Clark Audio Aeon 2 closed backed headphones, and balanced to a pair of ELAC Navis ARB-51 speakers. Any insight you might have would be extremely helpful.
There's the Matrix Element-H card (if it's still available) that I mentioned in this review. Don't look at my standalone review of it - I did a crappy job on that one and what I've said in this video is far more accurate
Hi Kamis, check out my recent Geshelli Labs J2 review. It's a great DAC with balanced and single-ended outputs so it's pretty future proof of you want to upgrade your amp later. Otherwise, the Schiit Modius is also a great choice that might pair a little better with the looks of the Asgard 3.
@@PassionforSound One would probably use an {external usb interface}/{Digital to Digital Converter} (ddc), like Singxer SU-6 or Audio-GD DI; otherwise, put the card in an external enclosure and connect via thunderbolt. External DDC's are another thing i would like to hear get reviewed on this channel, in addition to a comparison between different digital interfaces (USB, AES/EBU, spdif, I^2S etc.).
Thanks ewso100. The different interfaces are a little tricky because they can vary from device to device. I always try to discuss any audible differences between inputs when reviewing different DACs because that's more where it plays out.
Of course, each DAC-design's implementation would matter, and i can certainly see how that would muddy any comparison. Though people who believe digital interfaces affect sound quality seem to converge on one opinion: get of off your computer's USB-ports!
I think that used to be the case, but modern USB implementations are FAR better than once upon a time and I find that there is minimal benefit from USB to SPDIF these days. Of course if you can use I2S or AES, they may bring benefits, but they're still not super common
Always concerns me when no proper data and independent testing is provided with these type of products, how ironic that when you click the #JCAT #Femto link its about women's make up ! still think its better to upgrade your mother board and power supply for the money, but for some that have done all things possible and have nowhere left to go but enter the land of placebo audio. nice review but not for me.
Hi Steve, did the blind testing not provide you with any confidence? For computer audio (i.e. not general purpose computing), the JCAT cards will do a much better job than any motherboard or power supply upgrades because you'll still be getting a less accurate output from the generic ports
@@PassionforSound Not that i don't believe you, but if you had %100 strike rate with your blind tests, then yes something is definitely happening but until you reach %100 there is still some doubt about its use, even though its still connected to the motherboard, maybe you need more blind tests from multiple people and some back up scientific testing to convince me otherwise, thanks for your response look forward to the forthcoming debate in the comments on this ????? subject.
I think 100% accuracy on a subtle difference is difficult to achieve and we need to allow some margin for slips of concentration, listener fatigue, etc. That's why I included the probability of achieving the same result by chance (2% I believe it was). I understand the scepticism and this type of product is one of those that can be a journey to accept (I've walked that path myself on other products). I don't think there's really much more that I can achievably offer to provide more evidence than a solid blind test, but maybe other reviewers will take up the challenge in the future. 🙂
Honestly your review, especially of the network card, is difficult to believe. Amir at ASR recently tested a similar card and did listening tests. There was no difference. You hear a difference because you expect to hear one.....psycho acoustics.
John, the reason I conducted the blind tests was to prove that I can hear a difference. That's a method that Amir himself (not that he is the ultimate authority on these things) has stated he would accept as evidence of an audible difference. Denying the validity of a controlled listening test goes completely against the scientific principles the ASR community apparently uphold.
![АЛАУДИНОВ у Скабеевой: эти их ВСУ нас НЕ ДОГОНЯТ 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/an0anqU4WGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Congrats for this review and the reevaluation of the Element H. From my own experience the Element H does improve the sound of my audio dedicated computer BUT it depends on the motherboard used. I tried 5 different MBs and the degree of sound improvement over the MB's USB varied a lot. After intens listening sessions I decided to go with the one that sounds best to my ears.
Another important thing discovered by me and confirmed by the Matrix engineers is that the Element H uses only 3.3V voltage from the PCIe port in order to function. Power supplying the internal or external voltage is ONLY needed for the presence of 5V on the USB link which is ONLY necessary for DACs that need that voltage for handshaking. My Matrix X-Sabre PRO DAC doesn't need that voltage on USB link, therefore the Element H is set to OFF and the USB cable transports only the signal and not the voltage.
So, for the DACs that don't utilize the voltage on USB link, it is not mandatory to use other power supplies.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Element H. I was aware that some DACs don't need the 5V via USB, but didn't know you could disconnect power entirely with those DACs. That's really interesting and makes me wonder why the card requires 12V when it only outputs 5V and doesn't use external power to function.
Would you share with us what MBs you tried out and the one you thought was best?
@@dennisd9875 The test was almost half year long and I've tried Gigabyte B360N, an Intel NUC8i3BEH2, two of my friends mini PCs Lenovo and Dell and finally the board that sounded best was an older Gigabyte z77n MB. Maybe there are other MBs out in the wild that sound better but I haven't get the chance to try them. 🙂 In almost every review about the audio servers/streamers the designers confirm that they also listen to a lot of MBs until they settle to one and I think it's a painful process.
@Yuvi A OK, I will try the external power supply to see if it's gonna make a difference. The switch is in EXT position?
Good tip. Thanks Yuvi!
Very nicely done. Attention to detail is outstanding.
Thanks Brian! Glad it was helpful
I love the USB Definition hoody, made me laugh. Nice review.
Thanks Eric, glad you liked the review and hoody. The hoody is available in the merch store if you're interested 🙂
Cool video! I've been aware of Jcat for a little while now but haven't seen too many in depth reviews on them. I'm not quite at the point in my audio journey where I'd be willing to spend money on these sorts of "tweaks" especially since I've already gone down the raspberry pi streamer route. However if I build a custom server / streamer pc one day I would definitely consider these components as they seem to be some of the best available for this sort of application. Glad you are willing to take a look at these products which most people would consider "snake oil" or not apt to make a difference and offer your impressions on them through a fair blind test.
Thanks for respecting the approach! I'm expecting some hate for this one so we'll see...
The Raspberry Pi is a great solution and I think has more impact than one of these cards. That said, adding a JCAT network card will give surprisingly good improvements when using the RPi. That's if/when you feel like spending the money of course 🙂
@@PassionforSound its not hate its scepticism.
Hi Steve, comments like yours are fine - I don't think of those as hate at all. It's the disrespectful slander that I don't enjoy. Questions, scepticism and respectful alternative opinions are all welcome 🙂
Yes! Linear PSU is a must have for DDC.
Hope you get the opportunity to review the Jcat Xact S1 in the near future
I don't know that product - I'll have to check their website
Please correct me if I am uninformed/wrong, but from my understanding, DACs have internal clocks that controls timing between buffer and the DAC chip, so how would jitter on the USB output play a factor? If we are talking about a USB powered DAC that's badly designed without a regulator for its power rails, the less insane choice would be to put that $530 into a Bifrost or a Topping D90...
You're correct that DACs attempt to correct timing errors on the received signal and I'm not at all an expert in the technicalities of digital audio so I can't fully explain the technical side. What I can say though is that in my many years of listening to audio equipment, the whole signal chain is important. A poor output signal can never be returned to pristine quality so all these tweaks do matter at some point, but it's as a last step.
I deliberately focused on the blind test in this review because I'm not qualified to explain how or why it works so I can only demonstrate in a controlled manner that it does work. 🙂
Even if you already have the Bifrost or D90 it might be better to save the $530 for an upgraded headphone, DAC, or amplifier. These cards would start making sense when $530 starts looking pretty affordable compared to the rest of your gear.
That's it exactly. I don't like to put rules to things like this, but as an estimation/approximation, I'd say you want your main components like DAC, amp and headphone to all be at the $1000 or so mark before dropping the cost of these cards on peripheral accessories. At that point I do think you get significant benefits, but prior to that, the max performance will be somewhat limited by the gear and also, as you say Dennis, that money is better off going towards improving the DAC, amp or headphones.
I'm right down the rabbit hole now .. lol. I'm planning to build my own totally passive home PC. I know nothing about PC's but from what I've seen on yt, it doesn't look too difficult. Thanks for the vid.
My pleasure. It's not too hard to build your own PC. I find the hardest part is choosing the right processor and motherboard combo.
Hello, have you ever compared quality of output from your JCAT USB card (probably powered by LPS) vs output from a quality streamer? I stream from PC too (Audirvana) and deciding which way to eliminate the noise from my PC. Thank you.
I have. Please see my reply on your other comment 🙂
Hi Lachlan! Firstly, I'd like to say how awesome it is to have a Melbournian creating quality audio content!
Interesting in your thoughts on whether a battery or linear power supplies for USB & Network cards, now that you've had experience testing both options.
Would you think it better for a first timing to go down the LPS or the battery route?
Thanks!
I think both work fine, but I'd go for an LPS simply for the ease of use. Batteries don't like being constantly charged and having to remember to charge it can be annoying. With an LPS you can just connect and forget. Plus, an LPS will likely sound just a touch better if it's a good quality one. Most powerful battery power banks have a voltage controller which can create some slight noise that seems to degrade the sound ever so slightly compared to a good LPS.
By the way, are you coming to the Melbourne HiFi Show? I'm hoping to be there 2 of the days and will mostly be hanging out with the Radiance AV team who have the Chord, Meze and EarMen gear.
If you’re not streaming and just playing downloaded music off a NAS drive over ethernet, does the audiophile ethernet card still bring any theoretical benefit?
No. It's only going to help with streamed audio as far as I can tell.
Matrix USB vs built-in stremer for Gustard R26? Which option is better in terms of resolution and dynamics?
Built in streamer. My testing of the R26 was using a Jcat LAN card and the R26 was still better via LAN
Pretty cool, I've been binging on your channel for the last 5 hours. Very gentle and ethical the second shot on the Matrix H. May I ask what drove you to review it again?
Greetings from Texas.
Glad you're enjoying the content, Eduardo!
I was still using the Matrix when the JCATs arrived so I started comparing them and realised that the performance was very similar between them. That made me think that I'd been unfair on the Matrix the first time around because I'd been swayed a bit by people seeking objective data when my forte is listening and describing what I hear rather than getting into technical testing and diagnosis
This attitude is quite admirable, and rare. Indeed I understand the overall desire for objective, quantitative data; however these will not tell the whole story = there's more than what a given test can deliver.
I wish you the best!
Thanks Eduardo! I completely agree
What's the chespest linear power supply that would be acceptable for use with a matrix usb card?
I've not dived deep enough into power supplies to answer that. There are some cheap options on eBay and AliExpress, but I can comment on their quality.
Hi Lachlan, I'm having a hard time deciding whats more important...DDC or USB card. What are your thought please? Cheers
I actually consider them to be identical. I think of a DDC as like an external USB card (except it gives non-USB digital outputs). Both provide identical sonic improvements.
@@PassionforSound Ah that's what I thought! Thank you very much for your reply. You have an outstanding youtube channel. I come to You...for the truth. Thanks again mate!
Thanks Snake! It's still subjective so won't be everyone's truth, but I'm glad it's working for you! :)
Hi Lachlan, I felt one thing you didn’t address was whether these cards will help with really noisy PCs that exhibit chirping, ticks and buzzing from onboard USB sockets into external DACs, mainly from mouse movement and GPU/Display activity -common problems. The two problem DACs I have are both XMOS based. I have swapped out nearly every major component (PSU, motherboard, case, cables, added Thor power filtration board and tried all the associated tips and tricks, C-States and power options, tried USB filters, etc). I just can’t find a solution to it. Those sounds over USB are very loud and interfering. Will these cards put and end to the system noise?
Hi Heath, the reason I didn't address that is because I've never had that issue with my computer and it's possible that the issue your experiencing is occurring before the USB output which means the cards may not solve the problem. I can't speak to something that I haven't tested (and I couldn't test it because my computer doesn't have that problem) - sorry!
I have the same issue with a brand new motherboard, mostly due to the GPU but there is still noticeable noise after removing it, have you found a solution to this problem?
@@Bwalston910 I Don't think it's your GPU. It's something to do with the power regulation on the motherboard. Final solution was to ditch the MB. I have had this problem once before with Gigabyte MB. Try Asus, I no longer have the issues.
@@curlmythic I have a MSI PRO Z690A, when the GPU is removed the coil whine dissapears but I can still hear the CPU and SSD clicks. This leads me to believe that there is insufficient shielding on my USB and PCI lines. Theoretically, just using external power should fix this issue. This only happens when both my microphone and DAC are plugged in, meaning it must be a ground loop and dirty power in the PC.
@@Bwalston910 Unsure what it might be. All I can tell you is that my noise problems disappeared when I swapped board.
If you have a very high quality power supply for the femto, should you turn the internal filters off? I heard if your dac doesn't use USB power then take out all jumpers.
These jcat cards really surprised me. When I ab back to my mobo usb, the jcat is just more open, dynamic and layers so well allowing details to seep through.
Hi Manish, I guess removing the filtering might work if you're certain that the power supply is pristine, but it's really a question for JCAT. As for removing the jumpers altogether, that is suggesting that no power is better than any clean/filtered power so maybe that's a hint
The USB card to me makes perfect sense, audio signals leaving your computer have a clock attached to them so the more accurate the clock and cleaner the power the better. Plus usually (even if the DAC is galvanically isolated) part of the input will use the 5v supply from the PC so the cleaner that the better off it'll be. Also with UAC2 audio while errors can be detected there's no way to request re-transmission, aka you better send it right the first time.
I don't really understand the network side, network cards are supposed to be isolated by design and things like clocks shouldn't matter (packets can be received out of order or corrupted and can be re-transmitted). Not saying I discredit your impressions, in fact I think they're hugely helpful but I just don't understand why. I'd love to dive in more and find out why, maybe one day! If it does matter my assumption the cleanest solution of them all would be something like the Sonore opticalRendu which takes in an optical network connection instead of copper ethernet.
Thanks for being brave enough to tackle the conversational topics. I have a feeling this might not be your most popular video, but I still enjoyed it.
That's Blair. I was pretty shocked with the network card results too. I can only assume that it's about the noise rejection and possibly the fact that the signal is still having to pass from the card and into the motherboard or vice versa so perhaps they're making this interface more effective and therefore reducing the processing/reconstruction of the signal? I have zero clue with networking protocols so it all comes down to subjective experience on this one.
Ethernet should eliminate any timing concerns.
Noise rejection is plausible difference.
Also, a streaming service is likely using UDP instead of the TCP we are used to seeing. These are protocols running between ethernet and application protocols like HTTP and FTP - both of which use TCP. TCP supports resending packets and fails or pauses/stutters if a packet isn't received within the buffer time. In contrast, UDP doesn't support resending and will continue on despite dropped or corrupted packets. Hardware, and especially driver, improvements could reduce the error rate.
Some motherboard ethernet implementations have dismal chips and drivers while others are quite good. So accepting that the is a difference between JCAT and motherboard ethernet, the degree of difference would also depend on how good the motherboard ethernet is.
Thanks for the explanation, Dennis!
Beautiful capacitors on the power supply.
Yep, some nice big Nichicons 🙂
Can you compare their latest 800euro version of USB card and compare to Matrix and JCAT previous gen less expensive card you have reviewed in this review...
I'll reach out to them and see what we can arrange...
@@PassionforSound Awesome as new card uses state of the art oscillator and some best LInear Tech lowest noise voltage regulators , so far all have been saying it is a huge improvement over previous card you have reviewed.
I was also thinking of Matrix 329uad card that seemed priced much much better than JCAT that at 830usd seems very overpriced for what it is so Im looking for opinion and review if it really is 300% better than Matrix card , by the way Matrix card comes fully shielded and JCAT is not while being just inches away from all the sources of noise pollution in a PC case... i would expect that product to be shielded as well and price of new one should be at around 500usd at the most , it would sell lot better than at 830usd....
Very interesting and well executed review! Thanks for providing this info. One thing stays unclear, though... Is high end USB cable needed for connecting those USB PCIe card's USB out to DAC , does it further improve the sound? I believe you've stated that you have used the generic USB cable for your testing?
You're right that I used generic cables for testing just to limit the number of variables, but my use of the cards long term has shown that using quality USB cables does still make a difference.
@@PassionforSound Fantastic, as expected thanks for the insight :-). Although I remember the DDCs made almost no difference with the premium USB cables, which I found kind of strange. Thanks again and stay Finspired🤍!
Yes, the DDCs made the cable before them irrelevant, but the cable after them still mattered so it seems to be about the run from transport (inc DDC) to DAC that matters
@@PassionforSound Yes different digital signal cables as in SPIDIF, AES, Optical & I2S make huge difference from my own experience, but that quality USB connection from PC to DDC doesn't matter is quite strange and perhaps with the same analogy one would expect any USB cable to be fine with the high end audio USB PCIe cards, but as you've stated that isn't the case. So I think it is quite logical to think that DDCs are actually more superior than High end PCIe USB card in terms of USB bus isolation, if they make the USB cable quality irrelevant, right? I have a need for both ADC and DAC so high end PCIe USB cards are the only option because of the AD capture needed, but for just a playback and DAC perhaps something like Singxer SU-6 could potentially result in ''pure-ish'' audio signal flow... of course there's the question of the quality of the clock as well, but in general terms... I always preferred FireWire and Thunderbolt connections for audio to Mac / PC and recently Network (ethernet) based converters when properly set-up , with proper high end ethernet cables etc, where all better (cleaner - more transparent) sounding than USB based units, unless you're lucky and found the matching high end USB cables, then they were closer. The PCIe USB with external power looks super promising and can't wait to get my hands on one 🙂
I think the issue isn't that DDCs are superior to PCIe cards, it's about where each device sits in the chain. So, a PCIe card is doing much the same job as the DDC (although only outputting USB) and it's upstream wiring is the motherboard PCB so it's helping to improve whatever comes before it just like the DDC. For some reason, the piece of the puzzle that really matters is the downstream cable after the DDC or PCIe card and I can only assume it's got something to do with the fact that it's that cable carrying the signal that will ultimately be converted within the DAC
60% is only 10% more than 50%, which indicates no improvement. It will be good to perform the accuracy% on grouping set using card and non card to get better accuracy numbers. 60% is not a good result, More like > 75% would def prove some benefit. Also it would be good to listen to variate of genres, so that it covers bass heavy, mid heavy and extreme hi end tracks. I appreciate what you are doing here. There is also the pink faun 1100+ euro card and the new jcat with oxo clock.....suggestions for potential future testing ;)
Good review but you need to Try jcat psu with the cards
Hi imo, the Gieseler supplies are of excellent quality. I don't believe (from experience with batteries and multiple LPSUs) that the JCAT supply will make a significant difference versus other good quality supplies like the Gieseler
Been watching stuff for a bit, and I was wondering if it would be possible for you to review the JDS Labs Element II- I'm looking into getting one, and have heard lots of great stuff about it, but would love to hear your opinion about it
Hi Gareth, all I can say is stay tuned and you won't be disappointed... 😃
Nice video, thanks for sharing. My source is a custom Dell Workstation (with modified Power supply, cables and GPU card). I still use the onboard USB to connect to my Mytek Brooklyn DAC + with SBooster power supply. I am considering to go for a JCAT with a power supply. Do you also have some recommendation for better USB cables?
Glad you liked the video! I have found the Supra cables to be excellent at an affordable price. Otherwise, the Curious Evolved USB cable is my absolute reference.
The pieces your referring to would be the jplay software that compliments both the usb and network jplay components. Jplay femto and previous 6.2 has been sorta controversional over the years and I have been using the software for years to stream tidal using a generic windows 2012 r2 pc. It has produced some of the best digital transport streaming to my 2 channel system over the years. Not the most user friendly with the software throttling my pc, using hibernating mode (basically shuts down everything in the pc but essential audio and network for streaming). You can control the different levels of programs the software shuts down on your pc. It can be inconvienet at times if your pc isn't up to it and it may freeze forcing a restart. And this software can be used with fidelizer software to further optimize the pc sound. I haven't tried either of these jcat products but can only imagine it would make for a better overall system. I just know that it has bettered every transport I have tired thus far. Even my sonore microrendu. Though I have a feeling it would get better with a much better power supply (all these networking/streamers are power supply sensitive ). Another option I would like to try is sonore optical rendu that totally isolates the pc from power and your equipment. Heard great things and more convienent than the jplay pc setup. Looks like your linear power supply your using would work great with all those devices with the assorted voltages it can do. Sonore and uptone make great power supplies and network isolating devices like uptone ether regen. One area that helps streaming audio is mproving a noisey Ethernet net hub. Those general uses are noisey and not optimized for audio. Just throwing own some stuff for future reviews for you to maybe consider. Thank you !
Thanks for the contributions, Brandon! I saw the JPlay software, but haven't given it a try as yet. There's no doubt (from my experiences) that the power supplies make a huge difference with USB and network cards
If I'm using a Schiit bifrost 2 DAC and Schiit Jotunheim (version 1) amp, do I need to get these USB and/or network cards for my computer to improve the audio?
I think you'd be better to spend the money elsewhere for now, Mike. I'd start by upgrading the amp. Jot 1 is ok, but Jot 2 or something even better will give you much more significant gains
@@PassionforSound Thank you very much for your reply, I appreciate it. What would you suggest besides the Jot 2? I'm running balanced to Dan Clark Audio Aeon 2 closed backed headphones, and balanced to a pair of ELAC Navis ARB-51 speakers. Any insight you might have would be extremely helpful.
The Singxer SA-1 is great and the Burson Soloist 3XP is even better if you have the budget
Does anyone have any alternatives?
There's the Matrix Element-H card (if it's still available) that I mentioned in this review. Don't look at my standalone review of it - I did a crappy job on that one and what I've said in this video is far more accurate
Hello Sir can you recommend any dac for my Asgard 3 my budget around 300 dollars Thanks 👍
Hi Kamis, check out my recent Geshelli Labs J2 review. It's a great DAC with balanced and single-ended outputs so it's pretty future proof of you want to upgrade your amp later. Otherwise, the Schiit Modius is also a great choice that might pair a little better with the looks of the Asgard 3.
Matrix audio element H or jcat xe?
They're both very good. I kept the JCat Femto over the Matrix so the XE should be even better
What would you use for a laptop.
That's a great question and one that dawned on me while doing this review, but I'm yet to do any research on it
@@PassionforSound One would probably use an {external usb interface}/{Digital to Digital Converter} (ddc), like Singxer SU-6 or Audio-GD DI; otherwise, put the card in an external enclosure and connect via thunderbolt.
External DDC's are another thing i would like to hear get reviewed on this channel, in addition to a comparison between different digital interfaces (USB, AES/EBU, spdif, I^2S etc.).
Thanks ewso100. The different interfaces are a little tricky because they can vary from device to device. I always try to discuss any audible differences between inputs when reviewing different DACs because that's more where it plays out.
Of course, each DAC-design's implementation would matter, and i can certainly see how that would muddy any comparison.
Though people who believe digital interfaces affect sound quality seem to converge on one opinion: get of off your computer's USB-ports!
I think that used to be the case, but modern USB implementations are FAR better than once upon a time and I find that there is minimal benefit from USB to SPDIF these days. Of course if you can use I2S or AES, they may bring benefits, but they're still not super common
👍👍👍
I just got a Raspberry Pi 4 w/ a Pi2AES hat. INCREDIBLE upgrade over usb. Check it out. HIGHLY REC'D!!!
I've been using a HifiBerry equivalent, but I'm keen to try the Pi2AES
Always concerns me when no proper data and independent testing is provided with these type of products, how ironic that when you click the #JCAT #Femto link its about women's make up ! still think its better to upgrade your mother board and power supply for the money, but for some that have done all things possible and have nowhere left to go but enter the land of placebo audio. nice review but not for me.
Hi Steve, did the blind testing not provide you with any confidence? For computer audio (i.e. not general purpose computing), the JCAT cards will do a much better job than any motherboard or power supply upgrades because you'll still be getting a less accurate output from the generic ports
@@PassionforSound Not that i don't believe you, but if you had %100 strike rate with your blind tests, then yes something is definitely happening but until you reach %100 there is still some doubt about its use, even though its still connected to the motherboard, maybe you need more blind tests from multiple people and some back up scientific testing to convince me otherwise, thanks for your response look forward to the forthcoming debate in the comments on this ????? subject.
I think 100% accuracy on a subtle difference is difficult to achieve and we need to allow some margin for slips of concentration, listener fatigue, etc. That's why I included the probability of achieving the same result by chance (2% I believe it was). I understand the scepticism and this type of product is one of those that can be a journey to accept (I've walked that path myself on other products). I don't think there's really much more that I can achievably offer to provide more evidence than a solid blind test, but maybe other reviewers will take up the challenge in the future. 🙂
Australian company brings out products with german names 😀
JCat? They're not Australian 🙂
Honestly your review, especially of the network card, is difficult to believe. Amir at ASR recently tested a similar card and did listening tests. There was no difference. You hear a difference because you expect to hear one.....psycho acoustics.
John, the reason I conducted the blind tests was to prove that I can hear a difference. That's a method that Amir himself (not that he is the ultimate authority on these things) has stated he would accept as evidence of an audible difference. Denying the validity of a controlled listening test goes completely against the scientific principles the ASR community apparently uphold.