This guy needs to summarize his shit. Ninjitsu is a war strategy employed in medevil Japan, not an art of hand to hand combat. No historical records support that the ninjitsu practiced today was directly practiced by shinobi. Ninjitsu is recent invention built off the cultural hype of Ninja in the mid 19th century. Boom done! Somebody get me a beer.
When I trained in Bujinkan years ago, I was always told that Taijitsu specifically referred to the hand to hand martial art and that ninjitsu was broken up into a ton of different skills that were primary espionage. The only thing I really learned here is that there is not a record of what particular hand to hand combat techniques they used so we really don't know if typical ninjas preferred Taijitsu or Karate or whatever.
I've always thought Ninjutsu being translated as "kicking ass" is kind of weird since you don't want to beat someone up while spying or doing espionage work, certainly not when you're assassinating someone in their sleep. Sort of going against the logic. You don't really see an assassin or a spy showing up in front of you for a fistfight....
Speculation again, however; What came first, Samurai, or Chinese martial arts that came to Japan, along with other Chinese “special forces” type info? So who predates who? Is it only possible that the “Samurai” have a specific martial art, or did these early Chinese warrior/commando/mystics actually introduce to Japanese travelers and through visits to Japan, what people now call black mask guys BEFORE Samurai were officially even established? Then some people started concentrating on “Samurai” skills only, calling themselves Samurai. Meanwhile, some continued other specialized aspects of these Chinese influences simultaneously, and considered themselves kusa, rappa, suppa, Ect.? It’s no wonder there is little to no written trace of these people. It almost seems like that was their goal.
So... just call it "historical ninjitsu" and "modern ninjitsu" and be done with it? Just like the word "martial art" has a historical meaning (art of war) as well as a modern meaning (hand-to-hand combat) - why couldn't the word "ninjitsu" have changed it's meaning over time too? The only point you have to agree on is, that modern ninjitsu and historical ninjitsu are not the same. They might share some overlap, but the modern ninjitsu is about hand-to-hand combat, while the historical was not.
Because it make no sense? It's the same as you would say "historical black magic" and "modern black magic", "historic celtic music" and "modern celtic music" (as you probably know, there is such a thing). I like Heilung and so on, but I can't say it's "modern medieval celtic music" - this is nonsense.
No there was no historical ninjtsu thats made up ninjas were infultrators spys scouts but most the time they dident assassinate or kill it was not a marshall art necause it had little to do with war other then intelligence and spying you could be the worst fighter in the woild and know nothing abought war and still ne a ninja because you can sneak around or just act like someone your not
yeah I dont think anybody who has been training these fighting arts should get upset if they are not 'ninja' fighting arts. what they have learnt are most likely still very useful fighting skills and the fact that they are not 'ninja' fighting skills should not take away from this usefulness. If your learning a hand to hand combat system the name of the system should not really be of concern, its the techniques and skills they give which are important.
It's true that the bujinkan called togakure ninpo taijutsu the hand arts that hatsumi taught early on...also hatsumi-ha. It was still for marketing reasons in Japan and abroad.
To be serious though and to be fair to the debate….Could one say that Ninjutsu isn´t a definitive/defined martial art with specific hand to hand techniques documented but can still be called an indefinite/undefined martial art? It gets to sound like a question of creation. How one creates the martial art. You could then take any form of movement, give it martial properties and call it Ninjutsu or whatever. I believe I´ve heard someone say that it isn´t a martial art but a movementform practiced in a martial way.
This is very cool :-) Antony you should do a compilation video of your 1st debunks on ninjutsu as a "martial art" I thought it was intresting and more pointant how you told your stories about you and the bujuinkan and how you went to self proclaimed "ninjutsu teachers" on youtube to debunked them and their response videos. There was a lot of tension when you 1st came out and it was intresting how you had correct information to "combat" all these people who taught incorrect arts.
It’s a martial arts. Sun tzu ping fa. The last part of his book is on spying. The sneaker in and gathering intel, sabatage (setting fires, scouting, etc.). Hand to hand hand combat along with weapons is a prerequisite.Shinobi jutsu as a skill set... of course!! Thanks 🙏 for your show and teaching. Reading between the lines is a beautiful thing.👍
In Dutch there is a much better differentiation in terminology. Martial Arts would properly be translated as 'Krijgskunst' (art of the warrior, referring to skill not artistic expression). Then there is the term 'Vechtsport' (fighting sports).
Why don't you say what Ninjutsu as taught by Hatssumi is? Or discuss how Manaka Sensei was able to defeat all of American special forces in hand to hand combat? What style did he use?
Anthony, also, to debunk further argumentation, you could also analyze the etymology of the word art - from latin ars, artis, which can mean a whole lot of stuff - yes, art, but also: craft, skill, means, trait/characteristic, proficiency, etc. depending on the meaning - but in martial "arts", it would very much translate to "martial skill", which proves your point!
To begin with I agree with Antony in belief' of origin, and my own personal heart felt emotions on this topic. A little background into myself. I do not have an extensive back ground in history, etymology, or even martial arts. In fact, I have little more than the internet, and a habit of researching various topics. It is that hobby, actually that led me here. As it is my nature to play the devil advocate allow me to begin with this logic. Is ninjutsu currently being taught and promoted within its originating culture as a martial combat style? Yes, it is being taught as a 'gendai budo', or new age martial art. Is this being taught accurately to historical record and origin. No. In fact, ninjutsu is classified as a 'koryu' or "traditional school". Meaning that it originated prior to the Meiji Ishin (reformation) (1868). And is defined as a set of techniques. One of which sets was Taijutsu or unarmed combat. I could not determine the acceptance of ninjutsu as a martial art or combat officially. However, can infer given it's popularity in Japan, ninjutsu is accepted as a martial combat style or art. Even if the discipline only teaches approximately half of the original skill sets while focused on a singular sub set as the primary. Fighting that fact is refusing to accept a cultural change of a sovereign culture. Regardless of our acceptance, ninjutsu, has morphed like many things in many cultures to take on a new meaning and definition. I personally would much rather ninjutsu continue with the old ways as I've come to understand them, and that Antony writes about. I feel they promote a greater resourcefulness and independence in all situations. I began this path as I mention earlier, out of concern, and a feeling of need to be prepared. Not in the event that I am mugged, or my home invaded by criminals. But that I may find myself needing to stand for my country. And if my concerns were to come to light, and I hope they don't, this Budo Ninjutsu won't be enough. When researching this I noticed a pattern in which most of the the skills sets under the 'ninjutsu' umbrella ended in 'jutsu' and several other patterns in words used to describe this topic. So I decided to see what I could find involving the Kanji and the language being used. Ningen - Human Hinin - Non-Human Ja - Evil Gijutsu - Technique Nin + Ja = Ninja = Evil Human or Wicked Person? Am I right? Can I then guess that 'ninjutsu' is human technique or the technique of the people?
Your historical validation is amazing. It is fascinating to watch you calmly clarify such a volatile subject with actual PROOF. Your next video should be about the origin of the belt system in the modern "martial arts" community. All ninjas look like blackbelts from the beginning!
The first group of opinionists is the most tricky one, while the others are more clear in the expression of their view. Hand to hand combat it says. What do they then mean when they say this? Do they mean it is a hand to hand combat? Or do they mean it is not hand to hand combat? It could look like they think and believe as the third group. But what do they think is the difference between martial art, combat and warfare?
you know i had a friend back about 10 years now named yuki and she was a direct descendant (great x3 grandfather if i remember her words.) was a feudal lord though she was estranged from the family because her grand mother what Chinese and her family was rather racist so her mother came to america. she had 300 year old samurai teaching manuals past down (her Japanese family were quite rich and many were celebs and they just didn't care about things like that.)
Unfortunately English have made a mess martial arts should not have two meanings. It should be martial sports: fighting sports having rules etc. And martial arts: only arts that were used for war and are not sports
I've just watched up to about 19:00 in, i see where you're coming from, but the question you're answering is wrong. The question being answered is "Was Ninjutsu and Martial Art?". Whereas the question "Is Ninjutsu a Martial Art", i.e. a system for hand to hand combat, has been answered as yes by your definition. Just that the word "Ninjutsu" has been used to bring all the Kata from a physical, hand to hand combat standpoint, together under one teaching. At least this is my personal view point.
You can´t do that. That´s an art that died out in the 15th or 16th century Cummins has said. But I still want to ask if it isn´t possible to carry on the legacy? Or to recreate much of it? What they did in the that time of history probably wouldn´t fit in in our times. Some principles and ideas may be suitable but not the entire thing. It would need adaptation, modernisation and probably also improvisation.
It's fascinating why people even debate this?? If a MartialArt practitioner did 'Ninjutsu' for 40 years. Would they even need Validation of their art? After 40 years of Bujinkan, you switch to Karate or Kungfu just because they were created earlier or hav a documented history. Then I guess, there is a high chance that you would switch again after u find another older more ancient martialart. Instead of questioning "When is Ninjutsu created? and by who?", why not ask "Why do I learn MartialArts?"
Actually, that is not as far fetched as you may think. "Ju" means soft/flexible and a number of other variations choose your favourite and "JUTSU" meaning art, so, it the flexible/soft art, again whatever you prefer. And "do" meaning path or way. Flexible/Soft art, versus flexible/soft path. Just the suffix is different. Now there was an historical school of Jujutsu that called itself Judo, that is a fact. No need to check history. In fact, the thing that surprised me the most is your use of the word "Jitsu" - is this a new martial art because I've never heard of "flexible truth" before?!? Unless you are talking about a certain group in Brazil, or Trump which has been very loose with the truth since it's inception.
Geki ryu dojo - your statement or argument makes no sense and has no context, I'm sure mr cummins has read the art of war, but it has little relevance, the art of war neither mentions ninjutsu or hand to hand combat. It is a book of strategy. It is also Chinese, ninjutsu is verifiably japanese, with only projection and conjecture implying a possibility of Chinese influence. Also if one was to pose the question - are the skills of ninjutsu mentioned in the art of war, the chapter - on the use of spies - would invariably be used to qualify that the skillset of ninjutsu is espionage and part of the specialised skillset of samurai educated in high end strategy. So your mention of the art of war in your petty rant at mr cummins goes against your implication that you think ninjutsu is a form of hand to hand combat. Mr cummins has issue with the bujinkan as he has a view, with some merit that the bujinkan sold a lie to naïve westerners that ninjutsu as taught by the bujinkan was an 800 year old true lineage of the fighting hand to hand combat forms of the ninja passed down in secret tradition unbroken. This it undoubtedly is not. Ninjutsu as described in any of the japanese ninjutsu manuals is not hand to hand combat, it is guerilla/espionage strategies. And the lineages in the bujinkan ryuha scrolls are mostly suspect and invented by takamatsu and sold by hatsumi. Non of these are taught in the bujinkan. The bujinkan teaches a muddied mixture of jujutsu and karate. Some of the jujutsu has strong similarities to koryu movement although the weapons forms are poor and taken out of context missing the main essence of how they were taught prior to being taught in the bujinkan. The unarmed forms of the tenchijin no maki cherry picked from older ryuha such as asayama ichiden ryu have merit in learning an amalgamation art, as does aikido, mr hatsumi is a very skilled martial artist and a virtuoso, but beyond this, his original business plan of re marketing pre 1868 jujutsu as fighting ninjutsu to capitalise on the spread of martial arts around the world has in hindsight been unfortunate to say the least, and to those of us within the bujinkan, (I am a member) that were essentially conned into believing we were learning something that we were not, it leaves a bitter taste. However, in my own search to validate the time I invested into bujinkan taijutsu I have found it was not wasted time. The mistakes of the bujinkans taijutsu /weapons teachings can be rectified when the practitioner finds an art which still teaches the forms in the correct context. Finding the right one is down to the practioner.
MArtial Art is Techniques of War. Most definately Ninjutsu espionage and sabotage are techniques of war. The real fake here is unnarmed fist fighting being called Martial Arts. Because no army ever went to war with their fists. Hand to hand fighting is civilian fighting and sports. There are unnarmed techniques in some martial arts, but they all had weapons in mind when grappling. For example HEMA shows grappling, but it shows it with swords in hand, very different to wrestling without a sword. Kenjutsu shows some disarming and grappling techniques, but again all done with swords in hand. The police would use restraining techniques but you cant really call police restraint techniques Martial as they are civilian by nature. Martial Arts are any techniques that warriors/Soldiers would use on the battlefield. So I would Argue hand to hand fighting is not martial arts. Boxing is not a martial art, same for strictly hand to hand jujutsu, no Samurai would walk arund without his swords and bow etc, so bare handed jujutsu is not Martial, it is more civilian, and maybe at most a last ditch effort if you find yourself disarmed. But to disarm a samurai, you are going to have to take a lot of swords and knives from him.
Very good video, this question have being bugging me for a while They should have train for the event of hand to hand combat. And the idea of "go out and find a dojo that teach you this" doesn't sound right, they should have train this as a team, and that isolation over time should have create a new system. Ninjutsu is not a hand to hand system but one of the skills was hand to hand combat, that is how I imagine it was.
Espionage include things such as assassination and depending on the school hand to hand training, not saying a whole system but some basic stuff, most likely taken from other schools, to make sure you can get in and out of a sticky situation. So I can believe that ninjutsu isn't by itself a martial arts but used elements of martial arts (not developed specifically for it) and should be examined that way
How do you define Anthony Cummins? Answer: You don´t he is all about definition. The definitive ninja.....Now he probably erases my definition of selfexistence…..Well luckily for me it´s a definitive matter. I am Schrödingers cat. I can take it Anthony.... He he he.
In my opinion, all martial arts started somewhere (true) and it seems to me that Bujinkan Ninjutsu uses its own unique style that is just as different as any other martial art is to others styles, now how and when this happened is up for debate. Don't forget Brue Lee formed his own martial art in very recent times and his style was accepted as a genuine martial art. If you go way back in history it seems like China and India etc developed martial arts way before many other countries like Japan, and Japan has taken those arts and made them their own and added their own style to existing martial arts from others, this goes for their writing styles, language and culture etc but as we can see, it is now unique although claimed as their own, and recognized by others as their own . Henry Ford started a whole new way to manufacture cars but look at the difference from a BMW to a Toyota or a Lamborgini and yet all unique but very good in their particular style. So how about looking at Ninjutsu for what it is not where it came from, just because some art forms started thousands of years ago does not give them a gold card you only have to look at what happens with fighters like MMA and traditional martial arts! (you get my point) But most martial arts are very effective or should be in a street scenario. Boxers like Mike Tyson would eat most martial art champions with ease! My point is if you look at Ninjutsu it is a martial art regardless of the history or when it was formed. One last point, do you think that the Bible stories are all real?
anyway one day i modeling some anime costumes she made for her website and she starts tearing in to me about stance and and swing and all that about holding the boken. i say i'm not an idiot i have taken akkido and kumdo. and she tells me it meant nothing if thats what i got from it. long story short she shows me the manuals. in the attic sealing in ziplock bags. bigger ver. of what you showed in that pic. i was floored. she offered to teach me but i dated a not so divorced person.
I most likely have, but shall do so again. I also have two of your books. However, it has been a while since I read them, so, Im a bit rusty on your views.
It just sound like your are tailoring your argument so your right. Are people really concerned with whether ninjas were engaged in ninpo taijutsu? Not in my experience. Futhermore, they shouldn't be. Ninpo taijutsu is a name made popular by Hatsumi. I think what they mean is is ninjutsu a martial art like wing chun is a martial art. Also, if as you claim, shinobi were most likely special forces wouldn't they have been taught samurai arts?
necro_the_fallen_sand_monk kayaku dojo in the Netherlands I train there and they don't train you the bad ninjutsu but the good more modern-day training then what they teach add some dojos
We all know this, this has been said many times. Your posts seem like anger vents, no one disagrees that ninja's did martial arts and your point about it being "martial" and "art" we discussed at length in the video. That is all i have to say on that matter as it has been said a thousand times.
I think hatsumi might have shot himself in the foot by calling all of it ninpo taijutsu instead of teaching togakure ninpo DENSHO taijutsu scenarios by the book...way different. The TRNP of the 80s is pretty much the bujinkan tenchijin manual now...
wow this much confuseing i mind is blowned martial art militry art of spying weaponrty and skill of the hand man still but i just practice and love it hinden mean as i see of two set of skill's
It more or less sound like all you really want is to remove the current definition of martial art from the dictionary. However, an arguement like yours "if you ask 1000 people on the street", is simply not valid. You could just as well ask 1000 random people on the street what ninjutsu is and use that definition in the dictionary. "There you have it: ninjutsu is Takamatsuden Togakure ryu" . It is better if people educate themselves, and use the dictionary to do so. Martial art = art of war.
This guy needs to summarize his shit. Ninjitsu is a war strategy employed in medevil Japan, not an art of hand to hand combat. No historical records support that the ninjitsu practiced today was directly practiced by shinobi. Ninjitsu is recent invention built off the cultural hype of Ninja in the mid 19th century. Boom done! Somebody get me a beer.
Preach brotha!
When I trained in Bujinkan years ago, I was always told that Taijitsu specifically referred to the hand to hand martial art and that ninjitsu was broken up into a ton of different skills that were primary espionage. The only thing I really learned here is that there is not a record of what particular hand to hand combat techniques they used so we really don't know if typical ninjas preferred Taijitsu or Karate or whatever.
I've always thought Ninjutsu being translated as "kicking ass" is kind of weird since you don't want to beat someone up while spying or doing espionage work, certainly not when you're assassinating someone in their sleep. Sort of going against the logic. You don't really see an assassin or a spy showing up in front of you for a fistfight....
Anthony you´ve certainly mastered the art/skill of relativity and questions of definition.
Speculation again, however; What came first, Samurai, or Chinese martial arts that came to Japan, along with other Chinese
“special forces” type info? So who predates who? Is it only possible that the “Samurai” have a specific martial art, or did these early Chinese warrior/commando/mystics actually introduce to Japanese travelers and through visits to Japan, what people now call black mask guys BEFORE Samurai were officially even established? Then some people started concentrating on “Samurai” skills only, calling themselves Samurai. Meanwhile, some continued other specialized aspects of these Chinese influences simultaneously, and considered themselves kusa, rappa, suppa, Ect.? It’s no wonder there is little to no written trace of these people. It almost seems like that was their goal.
So... just call it "historical ninjitsu" and "modern ninjitsu" and be done with it?
Just like the word "martial art" has a historical meaning (art of war) as well as a modern meaning (hand-to-hand combat) - why couldn't the word "ninjitsu" have changed it's meaning over time too?
The only point you have to agree on is, that modern ninjitsu and historical ninjitsu are not the same. They might share some overlap, but the modern ninjitsu is about hand-to-hand combat, while the historical was not.
hooby _ thks thks thks first persoon that understands it
Because it make no sense? It's the same as you would say "historical black magic" and "modern black magic", "historic celtic music" and "modern celtic music" (as you probably know, there is such a thing). I like Heilung and so on, but I can't say it's "modern medieval celtic music" - this is nonsense.
No there was no historical ninjtsu thats made up ninjas were infultrators spys scouts but most the time they dident assassinate or kill it was not a marshall art necause it had little to do with war other then intelligence and spying you could be the worst fighter in the woild and know nothing abought war and still ne a ninja because you can sneak around or just act like someone your not
yeah I dont think anybody who has been training these fighting arts should get upset if they are not 'ninja' fighting arts. what they have learnt are most likely still very useful fighting skills and the fact that they are not 'ninja' fighting skills should not take away from this usefulness. If your learning a hand to hand combat system the name of the system should not really be of concern, its the techniques and skills they give which are important.
It's true that the bujinkan called togakure ninpo taijutsu the hand arts that hatsumi taught early on...also hatsumi-ha. It was still for marketing reasons in Japan and abroad.
Ninjutsu is more like Krav maga then karate bc it's not a combat sport it's a survival martial art
To be serious though and to be fair to the debate….Could one say that Ninjutsu isn´t a definitive/defined martial art with specific hand to hand techniques documented but can still be called an indefinite/undefined martial art? It gets to sound like a question of creation. How one creates the martial art. You could then take any form of movement, give it martial properties and call it Ninjutsu or whatever. I believe I´ve heard someone say that it isn´t a martial art but a movementform practiced in a martial way.
Are you saying Ninjas use skills rather that arts?
This is very cool :-) Antony you should do a compilation video of your 1st debunks on ninjutsu as a "martial art"
I thought it was intresting and more pointant how you told your stories about you and the bujuinkan and how you went to self proclaimed "ninjutsu teachers" on youtube to debunked them and their response videos.
There was a lot of tension when you 1st came out and it was intresting how you had correct information to "combat" all these people who taught incorrect arts.
It’s a martial arts. Sun tzu ping fa. The last part of his book is on spying. The sneaker in and gathering intel, sabatage (setting fires, scouting, etc.). Hand to hand hand combat along with weapons is a prerequisite.Shinobi jutsu as a skill set... of course!! Thanks 🙏 for your show and teaching. Reading between the lines is a beautiful thing.👍
She thought that the act of divorce was conceptually immoral regardless of context? That doesn't even make sense. lol
In Dutch there is a much better differentiation in terminology. Martial Arts would properly be translated as 'Krijgskunst' (art of the warrior, referring to skill not artistic expression). Then there is the term 'Vechtsport' (fighting sports).
Says: "I don't wanna tell you my opinion, I tell you the truth"
:couple seconds later:
... "That my opinion"
Wait what 🤔
Don´t worry it´s his educated opinion. (Confusing the enthusiasts even more)...
Antony where do the combative techniques from bujinkan originate from?
Regular Ju jutsu
Hanzo Hattori wrong If you think that then you know nothing about Bujinkan
Why don't you say what Ninjutsu as taught by Hatssumi is? Or discuss how Manaka Sensei was able to defeat all of American special forces in hand to hand combat? What style did he use?
It’s not about effectiveness it’s about history
@@AntonyCummins Is it effective and why?
Anthony,
also, to debunk further argumentation, you could also analyze the etymology of the word art - from latin ars, artis, which can mean a whole lot of stuff - yes, art, but also: craft, skill, means, trait/characteristic, proficiency, etc. depending on the meaning - but in martial "arts", it would very much translate to "martial skill", which proves your point!
To begin with I agree with Antony in belief' of origin, and my own personal heart felt emotions on this topic.
A little background into myself. I do not have an extensive back ground in history, etymology, or even martial arts. In fact, I have little more than the internet, and a habit of researching various topics. It is that hobby, actually that led me here.
As it is my nature to play the devil advocate allow me to begin with this logic.
Is ninjutsu currently being taught and promoted within its originating culture as a martial combat style? Yes, it is being taught as a 'gendai budo', or new age martial art.
Is this being taught accurately to historical record and origin.
No. In fact, ninjutsu is classified as a 'koryu' or "traditional school". Meaning that it originated prior to the Meiji Ishin (reformation) (1868). And is defined as a set of techniques. One of which sets was Taijutsu or unarmed combat.
I could not determine the acceptance of ninjutsu as a martial art or combat officially. However, can infer given it's popularity in Japan, ninjutsu is accepted as a martial combat style or art. Even if the discipline only teaches approximately half of the original skill sets while focused on a singular sub set as the primary.
Fighting that fact is refusing to accept a cultural change of a sovereign culture. Regardless of our acceptance, ninjutsu, has morphed like many things in many cultures to take on a new meaning and definition.
I personally would much rather ninjutsu continue with the old ways as I've come to understand them, and that Antony writes about. I feel they promote a greater resourcefulness and independence in all situations. I began this path as I mention earlier, out of concern, and a feeling of need to be prepared. Not in the event that I am mugged, or my home invaded by criminals. But that I may find myself needing to stand for my country. And if my concerns were to come to light, and I hope they don't, this Budo Ninjutsu won't be enough.
When researching this I noticed a pattern in which most of the the skills sets under the 'ninjutsu' umbrella ended in 'jutsu' and several other patterns in words used to describe this topic. So I decided to see what I could find involving the Kanji and the language being used.
Ningen - Human
Hinin - Non-Human
Ja - Evil
Gijutsu - Technique
Nin + Ja = Ninja = Evil Human or Wicked Person? Am I right?
Can I then guess that 'ninjutsu' is human technique or the technique of the people?
great vid Ant. I hope more people watch it to become more informed.
Your historical validation is amazing. It is fascinating to watch you calmly clarify such a volatile subject with actual PROOF. Your next video should be about the origin of the belt system in the modern "martial arts" community. All ninjas look like blackbelts from the beginning!
Like it!
The first group of opinionists is the most tricky one, while the others are more clear in the expression of their view. Hand to hand combat it says. What do they then mean when they say this? Do they mean it is a hand to hand combat? Or do they mean it is not hand to hand combat? It could look like they think and believe as the third group. But what do they think is the difference between martial art, combat and warfare?
you know i had a friend back about 10 years now named yuki and she was a direct descendant (great x3 grandfather if i remember her words.) was a feudal lord though she was estranged from the family because her grand mother what Chinese and her family was rather racist so her mother came to america. she had 300 year old samurai teaching manuals past down (her Japanese family were quite rich and many were celebs and they just didn't care about things like that.)
Unfortunately English have made a mess martial arts should not have two meanings. It should be martial sports: fighting sports having rules etc. And martial arts: only arts that were used for war and are not sports
I've just watched up to about 19:00 in, i see where you're coming from, but the question you're answering is wrong. The question being answered is "Was Ninjutsu and Martial Art?". Whereas the question "Is Ninjutsu a Martial Art", i.e. a system for hand to hand combat, has been answered as yes by your definition. Just that the word "Ninjutsu" has been used to bring all the Kata from a physical, hand to hand combat standpoint, together under one teaching. At least this is my personal view point.
great research. thanks for informing me on what a ninja really is. now it's time for me to learn espionage and to become an actual ninja.
You can´t do that. That´s an art that died out in the 15th or 16th century Cummins has said. But I still want to ask if it isn´t possible to carry on the legacy? Or to recreate much of it? What they did in the that time of history probably wouldn´t fit in in our times. Some principles and ideas may be suitable but not the entire thing. It would need adaptation, modernisation and probably also improvisation.
It's fascinating why people even debate this?? If a MartialArt practitioner did 'Ninjutsu' for 40 years. Would they even need Validation of their art? After 40 years of Bujinkan, you switch to Karate or Kungfu just because they were created earlier or hav a documented history. Then I guess, there is a high chance that you would switch again after u find another older more ancient martialart. Instead of questioning "When is Ninjutsu created? and by who?", why not ask "Why do I learn MartialArts?"
yuki never spoke to me again.
So, are you saying that the samurai who practiced Ninjitsu had no martial arts skills?
No.
They have normal samurai skills.
To be honest you just agreed with me but sounded angry, not sure what your post is meant to mean.
Good video Antony!
Judo and Jujitsu in 1500. I think you need to go back and check your history instead
Actually, that is not as far fetched as you may think. "Ju" means soft/flexible and a number of other variations choose your favourite and "JUTSU" meaning art, so, it the flexible/soft art, again whatever you prefer. And "do" meaning path or way. Flexible/Soft art, versus flexible/soft path. Just the suffix is different. Now there was an historical school of Jujutsu that called itself Judo, that is a fact. No need to check history. In fact, the thing that surprised me the most is your use of the word "Jitsu" - is this a new martial art because I've never heard of "flexible truth" before?!? Unless you are talking about a certain group in Brazil, or Trump which has been very loose with the truth since it's inception.
Geki ryu dojo - your statement or argument makes no sense and has no context, I'm sure mr cummins has read the art of war, but it has little relevance, the art of war neither mentions ninjutsu or hand to hand combat. It is a book of strategy. It is also Chinese, ninjutsu is verifiably japanese, with only projection and conjecture implying a possibility of Chinese influence. Also if one was to pose the question - are the skills of ninjutsu mentioned in the art of war, the chapter - on the use of spies - would invariably be used to qualify that the skillset of ninjutsu is espionage and part of the specialised skillset of samurai educated in high end strategy. So your mention of the art of war in your petty rant at mr cummins goes against your implication that you think ninjutsu is a form of hand to hand combat.
Mr cummins has issue with the bujinkan as he has a view, with some merit that the bujinkan sold a lie to naïve westerners that ninjutsu as taught by the bujinkan was an 800 year old true lineage of the fighting hand to hand combat forms of the ninja passed down in secret tradition unbroken.
This it undoubtedly is not. Ninjutsu as described in any of the japanese ninjutsu manuals is not hand to hand combat, it is guerilla/espionage strategies. And the lineages in the bujinkan ryuha scrolls are mostly suspect and invented by takamatsu and sold by hatsumi.
Non of these are taught in the bujinkan.
The bujinkan teaches a muddied mixture of jujutsu and karate.
Some of the jujutsu has strong similarities to koryu movement although the weapons forms are poor and taken out of context missing the main essence of how they were taught prior to being taught in the bujinkan.
The unarmed forms of the tenchijin no maki cherry picked from older ryuha such as asayama ichiden ryu have merit in learning an amalgamation art, as does aikido, mr hatsumi is a very skilled martial artist and a virtuoso, but beyond this, his original business plan of re marketing pre 1868 jujutsu as fighting ninjutsu to capitalise on the spread of martial arts around the world has in hindsight been unfortunate to say the least, and to those of us within the bujinkan, (I am a member) that were essentially conned into believing we were learning something that we were not, it leaves a bitter taste. However, in my own search to validate the time I invested into bujinkan taijutsu I have found it was not wasted time. The mistakes of the bujinkans taijutsu /weapons teachings can be rectified when the practitioner finds an art which still teaches the forms in the correct context.
Finding the right one is down to the practioner.
The ending of that comment didn't really make any sense. I am extremely confused.
MArtial Art is Techniques of War. Most definately Ninjutsu espionage and sabotage are techniques of war. The real fake here is unnarmed fist fighting being called Martial Arts. Because no army ever went to war with their fists. Hand to hand fighting is civilian fighting and sports. There are unnarmed techniques in some martial arts, but they all had weapons in mind when grappling. For example HEMA shows grappling, but it shows it with swords in hand, very different to wrestling without a sword. Kenjutsu shows some disarming and grappling techniques, but again all done with swords in hand. The police would use restraining techniques but you cant really call police restraint techniques Martial as they are civilian by nature.
Martial Arts are any techniques that warriors/Soldiers would use on the battlefield.
So I would Argue hand to hand fighting is not martial arts. Boxing is not a martial art, same for strictly hand to hand jujutsu, no Samurai would walk arund without his swords and bow etc, so bare handed jujutsu is not Martial, it is more civilian, and maybe at most a last ditch effort if you find yourself disarmed. But to disarm a samurai, you are going to have to take a lot of swords and knives from him.
Very good video, this question have being bugging me for a while
They should have train for the event of hand to hand combat. And the idea of "go out and find a dojo that teach you this" doesn't sound right, they should have train this as a team, and that isolation over time should have create a new system. Ninjutsu is not a hand to hand system but one of the skills was hand to hand combat, that is how I imagine it was.
Yes but what does that have to do with anything else that you said? That's why I'm confused. lol
Espionage include things such as assassination and depending on the school hand to hand training, not saying a whole system but some basic stuff, most likely taken from other schools, to make sure you can get in and out of a sticky situation. So I can believe that ninjutsu isn't by itself a martial arts but used elements of martial arts (not developed specifically for it) and should be examined that way
How do you define Anthony Cummins? Answer: You don´t he is all about definition. The definitive ninja.....Now he probably erases my definition of selfexistence…..Well luckily for me it´s a definitive matter. I am Schrödingers cat. I can take it Anthony.... He he he.
In my opinion, all martial arts started somewhere (true) and it seems to me that Bujinkan Ninjutsu uses its own unique style that is just as different as any other martial art is to others styles, now how and when this happened is up for debate. Don't forget Brue Lee formed his own martial art in very recent times and his style was accepted as a genuine martial art. If you go way back in history it seems like China and India etc developed martial arts way before many other countries like Japan, and Japan has taken those arts and made them their own and added their own style to existing martial arts from others, this goes for their writing styles, language and culture etc but as we can see, it is now unique although claimed as their own, and recognized by others as their own . Henry Ford started a whole new way to manufacture cars but look at the difference from a BMW to a Toyota or a Lamborgini and yet all unique but very good in their particular style. So how about looking at Ninjutsu for what it is not where it came from, just because some art forms started thousands of years ago does not give them a gold card you only have to look at what happens with fighters like MMA and traditional martial arts! (you get my point) But most martial arts are very effective or should be in a street scenario. Boxers like Mike Tyson would eat most martial art champions with ease! My point is if you look at Ninjutsu it is a martial art regardless of the history or when it was formed. One last point, do you think that the Bible stories are all real?
anyway one day i modeling some anime costumes she made for her website and she starts tearing in to me about stance and and swing and all that about holding the boken. i say i'm not an idiot i have taken akkido and kumdo. and she tells me it meant nothing if thats what i got from it. long story short she shows me the manuals. in the attic sealing in ziplock bags. bigger ver. of what you showed in that pic. i was floored. she offered to teach me but i dated a not so divorced person.
It ended up creating negativity, when most people agreed that ninjutsu is not an MA i took them down.
I most likely have, but shall do so again. I also have two of your books. However, it has been a while since I read them, so, Im a bit rusty on your views.
It just sound like your are tailoring your argument so your right. Are people really concerned with whether ninjas were engaged in ninpo taijutsu? Not in my experience. Futhermore, they shouldn't be. Ninpo taijutsu is a name made popular by Hatsumi. I think what they mean is is ninjutsu a martial art like wing chun is a martial art. Also, if as you claim, shinobi were most likely special forces wouldn't they have been taught samurai arts?
If Masaaki Hatsumi says ninjutsu is budo, then for me, it is.
didn't seem like a long video.
hello sir, since you are an expert on this so to speak. where would you recommend people train?
There are many government agencies that employ the use of subterfuge and espionage. That would be a good choice.
necro_the_fallen_sand_monk kayaku dojo in the Netherlands I train there and they don't train you the bad ninjutsu but the good more modern-day training then what they teach add some dojos
If you poll 1000 koryu bujutsu practitioners how they use the word "martial arts".....what would they say? Demographics matter in etemological work.
Love it!
We all know this, this has been said many times. Your posts seem like anger vents, no one disagrees that ninja's did martial arts and your point about it being "martial" and "art" we discussed at length in the video. That is all i have to say on that matter as it has been said a thousand times.
I think hatsumi might have shot himself in the foot by calling all of it ninpo taijutsu instead of teaching togakure ninpo DENSHO taijutsu scenarios by the book...way different. The TRNP of the 80s is pretty much the bujinkan tenchijin manual now...
Lol at the suggested videos on my screen for this video. UA-cam fail.
wow this much confuseing i mind is blowned martial art militry art of spying weaponrty and skill of the hand man still but i just practice and love it hinden mean as i see of two set of skill's
Check the website again. I have more out now.
Ninjutsu is a mix of martial arts
@Nic777 So ninjas had a specialized hand to hand combat called ninjutsu which by definition means ninjutsu is a martial art.
@Nic777 Just because you listen to someone speak on some topic does not mean you must agree to anything that person is saying.
27:02 of Jibber Jabber about Ninpo
It more or less sound like all you really want is to remove the current definition of martial art from the dictionary. However, an arguement like yours "if you ask 1000 people on the street", is simply not valid. You could just as well ask 1000 random people on the street what ninjutsu is and use that definition in the dictionary. "There you have it: ninjutsu is Takamatsuden Togakure ryu" . It is better if people educate themselves, and use the dictionary to do so. Martial art = art of war.
If I wanted to study unarmed martial arts that a ninja might have studied, where would I look?
Ju-jitsu anything used by the samurai since anyone could be a shinobi a samurai could be one
matconner21 yeah but aikido is also trained by the Samurai
John Simmons kayaku dojo
thats why yuki stop talking to me. she found highly immoral.
Ninja Craft?
please read my FAQ
hahah they do!
????
she was "getting" a divorce.
not
Adauto Alves not what???
Conclusion: " - Ninjutsu is not a martial art because we´ve evolved into mastering the art of fighting without fighting. It´s really advanced man!"
Poor guy...still ranting and raving about ninjutsu. Talk about a giant chip on the shoulder. Ever consider therapy to help you with this hangup??